The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #73 with Jean Jacques Machado

00:00:03.000 Boom!

00:00:04.000 And we're live.

00:00:05.000 Jean-Jacques!

00:00:06.000 Joe Hogan!

00:00:08.000 Pull this up.

00:00:10.000 It's been quite some time, but we made it.

00:00:13.000 Yeah, we made it.

00:00:14.000 We made it happen.

00:00:15.000 People still, to this day, all my friends call me Joe Hogan because of you.

00:00:19.000 I don't know, man.

00:00:20.000 Joe Hogan!

00:00:21.000 That's a funny Brazilian thing, you know, the Portuguese translation of R's to H's.

00:00:26.000 I think when we speak English, you have to use your tongue in a way that in Portuguese we are just flat out.

00:00:33.000 But you use Rio.

00:00:34.000 You don't say Rio, right?

00:00:36.000 Do you say Rio or Rio?

00:00:37.000 No, I say Rio.

00:00:38.000 How does that work?

00:00:39.000 Somehow, in Portuguese, the first two letters are the strongest ones in the world.

00:00:45.000 But Hickson and Hoyce and...

00:00:48.000 Say Hickson.

00:00:49.000 Right.

00:00:49.000 But it's not Rickson, but it's Rio.

00:00:51.000 Yes.

00:00:52.000 How's that work?

00:00:53.000 I don't know.

00:00:54.000 When it comes to a name, it's different than when you say a city name.

00:00:56.000 Oh, really?

00:00:57.000 Yes.

00:00:58.000 Oh.

00:00:58.000 It's funny.

00:00:59.000 Rio, it's more something for...

00:01:02.000 And when you say personal, it becomes a little, I don't know, Hexon.

00:01:07.000 So with people it's an H, but it can be an R, like an R sound with objects and things?

00:01:14.000 Yes.

00:01:14.000 Or just places?

00:01:16.000 I think more places, and it's funny because in each region in Brazil is a different accent.

00:01:22.000 Really?

00:01:23.000 Oh, that makes sense.

00:01:24.000 Kind of like America.

00:01:25.000 Yes.

00:01:25.000 Each place, like, what country is that?

00:01:27.000 Because it sounds very different.

00:01:30.000 But it's a beautiful language.

00:01:32.000 Portuguese has, like, especially Brazilian Portuguese, has, like, a sing-songy, like, a flow to it.

00:01:37.000 It's the bossa nova, carnaval.

00:01:39.000 Yeah.

00:01:41.000 But it's not the way you guys talk.

00:01:43.000 It's cool.

00:01:43.000 It sounds good, you know?

00:01:45.000 It's more almost like singing.

00:01:47.000 Yeah.

00:01:48.000 How many Americans have put on a fake Brazilian accent once they started really getting into Jiu Jitsu?

00:01:55.000 Must be.

00:01:56.000 Man, I think in a way when Jiu Jitsu established their flag outside Brazil, It's funny in a way that people, our goal is to make that area become more Brazilian than any other place.

00:02:12.000 It's not that we're trying to speak more English, but we'll make the English become more Portuguese.

00:02:18.000 And almost every student that I have, maybe probably because of my accent, they're listening and speaking very similar to the way we do in every Jiu-Jitsu school.

00:02:28.000 Yeah, well, we used to see that in Taekwondo too.

00:02:32.000 Guys would have fake Korean accents.

00:02:34.000 And in each school, the instructor has a different accent and different vocabulary, which even extended more.

00:02:41.000 It becomes like another language.

00:02:43.000 In the jiu-jitsu community.

00:02:45.000 So jiu-jitsu is huge in Rio, but what other parts of Brazil, it's very strange, if you stop and think about the history of martial arts, which is something that's always been very fascinating to me, jiu-jitsu is the most fascinating, because until 1993, very few people understood how potent Brazilian jiu-jitsu was.

00:03:06.000 When I started to understand jiu-jitsu and became a teenager time, Jiu-Jitsu is basically in Brazil, has that amazing era of my Uncle Helio and Carson, the whole first generation of the family, which Brazil is all over.

00:03:22.000 Jiu-Jitsu is all over Brazil.

00:03:25.000 As a teenager, I remember that Jiu-Jitsu is basically established in a very...

00:03:32.000 Wealth area in Rio de Janeiro only.

00:03:36.000 Really?

00:03:36.000 That's basically you have all the schools used to call Gracie schools by the neighborhood.

00:03:40.000 You have a Gracie Humaita, you have a Gracie Copacabana, you have a then future Gracie Barra, but everything was almost Gracie school everywhere.

00:03:48.000 And it was wealthy people?

00:03:49.000 Only in the wealthy area of Rio.

00:03:51.000 Wow.

00:03:53.000 Then slowly, because keep in mind, we used to have one, maybe two tournaments sport of jiu-jitsu a year.

00:04:01.000 That's it.

00:04:02.000 We always practice jiu-jitsu mainly at that time for self-defense.

00:04:08.000 We want to get ready for, protect ourself.

00:04:11.000 We never had much chances to try in a tournament because there's no tournament.

00:04:15.000 Every train we do is based in defend yourself.

00:04:20.000 What year did tournaments start coming about?

00:04:24.000 By the beginning of the 90s, I think the Jiu Jitsu tournament started catching up more.

00:04:30.000 There's a crazy video of your brother, Hegan and Hickson, competing at a tournament once.

00:04:38.000 It was the biggest tournament of the year.

00:04:40.000 300 competitors.

00:04:43.000 Oh, that's crazy.

00:04:44.000 That was the biggest one.

00:04:46.000 That's crazy.

00:04:46.000 That's so small, but that was the biggest one.

00:04:48.000 300 people.

00:04:49.000 Wow.

00:04:49.000 Now there are thousands and thousands.

00:04:51.000 Oh, now the big ones is like 5,000 people.

00:04:53.000 Yeah.

00:04:54.000 Now, when this happened, what year was this with your brother?

00:04:57.000 I think it was in the 80s.

00:04:59.000 Not sure which year.

00:05:00.000 Really?

00:05:00.000 Wow.

00:05:01.000 It was something...

00:05:03.000 I don't think today, looking back, is something that I didn't like personally, because there was no need for that.

00:05:10.000 Everybody's to train together.

00:05:12.000 And later on, I find out there was behind the scenes People involved with the organization, they wanted something more of the tournament, and they end up making something like that happen.

00:05:22.000 Oh, so you mean because Hegan and Hickson had trained together, having them compete against each other was not a good idea?

00:05:28.000 Oh, no.

00:05:28.000 Hickson was teaching us.

00:05:30.000 He's our instructor.

00:05:31.000 Why do you think they wanted to have him compete against Hegan?

00:05:36.000 Even this happened on the day of the event.

00:05:39.000 There was no planning of having that fight or anything.

00:05:42.000 They just made that happen there.

00:05:44.000 And today I realized that the promoter of the tournament, the sponsor, was talking to someone involved in the promotion.

00:05:52.000 Hey, man, I'll give you more money if you make something like that happen.

00:05:56.000 In our time, if my instructor tells me I want you to go and do that, I don't even question.

00:06:03.000 I just go and do it.

00:06:04.000 Right.

00:06:04.000 That's the way we were in the whole family.

00:06:08.000 And our instructor said, I've got to go and do this.

00:06:11.000 Even though I don't like it, it's wrong, I should not do it, we'll do it.

00:06:15.000 So what would be wrong about it would be that you were all training partners, and in fact, Hickson was your instructor.

00:06:22.000 So for one of you to go up against Hickson, it's just...

00:06:25.000 I will give you, in the 90s, early 90s, we have a Sambo Wrestling Tournament in San Diego.

00:06:33.000 And when we moved to America, there was no jiu-jitsu events at all.

00:06:37.000 And we are in search of something similar that we can do to keep the edge.

00:06:43.000 And we went to some judo tournaments, we went to wrestling tournaments, not knowing the rules of anything.

00:06:48.000 And we end up in a sambo wrestling tournament.

00:06:50.000 Sambo, for people who don't know, is a Russian martial art.

00:06:53.000 They wear the judo jacket, but they wear wrestling shoes and shorts.

00:06:57.000 Yeah, it's kind of a mix of both.

00:06:59.000 Different rules.

00:07:00.000 I still don't know exactly the rules.

00:07:03.000 But here we are, and myself, and I would go there, and I saw Hickson in that event.

00:07:08.000 And when it comes towards the final match, it was me and him in the final match.

00:07:14.000 Back at that time, we had some conflict inside the family.

00:07:20.000 I'll keep that in four walls.

00:07:23.000 But the relationship wasn't as well as it should be.

00:07:28.000 Then when the referee called me, he said, I'm not going to fight my instructor, my coach, my hero, my idol.

00:07:36.000 And I told the ref, no, I'm not fighting.

00:07:37.000 And even Hickson was like, look at me, and I think in a good way, he knew I would not ever compete against him.

00:07:44.000 But at the same time, he realized that I would never turn myself against him.

00:07:50.000 I would fight for him for the rest of my life, and period.

00:07:54.000 And I think it was the point that I was able to engage back our family things together after this date and showing him that it's all my respect and I will fight for him, never against him.

00:08:07.000 Well, there was a time where people were trying to use the Gracie name.

00:08:11.000 And many people were opening up schools that weren't necessarily really, that wasn't their birth name, Gracie.

00:08:18.000 Whereas you guys went in a different direction and used the Machado name, and the Machado name became enormous too.

00:08:24.000 So there was like, from what I remember in the 90s, when I first started training with you, I started out at Hickson's Place, and I only trained there one time, and then I went from Hickson's Place to Carlson's Place just because it was closer.

00:08:39.000 I didn't know any better.

00:08:40.000 I thought Gracie is Gracie.

00:08:41.000 Oh, Carlson Gracie, Hicks and Gracie.

00:08:42.000 I didn't know anything.

00:08:43.000 And I was a white belt.

00:08:44.000 And I was like, oh, another Gracie.

00:08:46.000 Oh, this is like 10 minutes closer to my house.

00:08:48.000 I'll just go here.

00:08:49.000 But that's how it used to be in Brazil in the 80s.

00:08:51.000 It's all Gracie schools.

00:08:52.000 But then when that place went under, Carlson lost that place.

00:08:56.000 It was on Hawthorne.

00:08:57.000 That was when Vitor Belfort made his UFC debut in 1997. And that place went under, I started training with you.

00:09:04.000 And when I started training with you, it was like 97-ish, right?

00:09:07.000 Somewhere around there?

00:09:08.000 98?

00:09:09.000 Somewhere around there?

00:09:10.000 I think it was right before Fear Factor?

00:09:12.000 No.

00:09:13.000 Something a few years before.

00:09:14.000 Yeah, a few years before.

00:09:15.000 Because Fear Factor was 2001. News Radio's time.

00:09:18.000 Yes.

00:09:18.000 I was still on News Radio when I was training with you.

00:09:20.000 But I remember there was like, oh, you're Machado now.

00:09:24.000 I'm like, what are you talking about?

00:09:25.000 I was like, I didn't understand.

00:09:26.000 Like, oh, there's like Machados and then there's like two different like...

00:09:31.000 The thing that happened at that time was this.

00:09:34.000 My mother, older sister, she's married to Carlos Gracie Sr. I mean, he had seven wives.

00:09:44.000 Holla!

00:09:46.000 His last wife was my mom's sister.

00:09:49.000 And that's, we grew up with the family.

00:09:51.000 We don't have the same last name.

00:09:54.000 But I feel like I am, and all my brothers, the same thing.

00:09:56.000 We represent the Grace family the best way we can, forever, you know?

00:10:01.000 And every day, you have a big family, you have cousins that you relate better than others, but it's still a family, you know?

00:10:08.000 And back at that time, two of my brothers were teaching at the Grace School in Carson with Higgins and Carlos, and I think by that time, Chuck Norris was no longer training with Horian at the Gracie School there.

00:10:27.000 Not sure what happened and he stopped training.

00:10:29.000 Then one day, Chuck Norris showed up at our house, at our garage.

00:10:38.000 We used to teach in our garage in Redondo Beach.

00:10:41.000 And we opened the door, suddenly look, it's like, man, that guy looks like Chuck Norris.

00:10:47.000 Then this gentleman was with him, boy, this is Chuck Norris.

00:10:50.000 And we look like, what?

00:10:51.000 And he brought him to train.

00:10:53.000 He did train a few years back at the Great C School and blah, blah, blah.

00:10:56.000 And it's a long story.

00:10:57.000 Then he started training for us.

00:10:59.000 And when he started training for us, we became very good friends.

00:11:03.000 It was amazing.

00:11:03.000 Like something right away, he invited us to his house.

00:11:06.000 He's a great guy.

00:11:07.000 Man, amazing person.

00:11:08.000 He started hanging out.

00:11:09.000 And by that time, I remember he used to make a movie, one movie a year.

00:11:13.000 He worked for six months to make a movie, and he had six months off.

00:11:17.000 When we met him, he was six months off.

00:11:21.000 Literally, he trains every day.

00:11:22.000 But when he trains, he doesn't go home.

00:11:24.000 We have lunch, he hangs out, we go to a movie, then suddenly become good friends.

00:11:30.000 Then one day, after a few months after training with us, he invited us to the valley where he used to live in Encino and said, look, I have a surprise for you guys.

00:11:40.000 Then he took us to a shopping center right on Ventura Boulevard, and he shows, I have a gift for you guys, and he shows one of the Unity's mats, right?

00:11:52.000 It's like a school.

00:11:53.000 Then he said, look, this is for you guys.

00:11:55.000 That's your school.

00:11:56.000 Wow.

00:11:57.000 Then we look at him like, Ventura Boulevard, right on the street.

00:12:01.000 I said, Chuck, I don't think we can afford that.

00:12:05.000 He said, no, don't worry.

00:12:06.000 That's my building.

00:12:06.000 You guys don't have to pay anything.

00:12:07.000 I just want to make sure I don't have to drive the 101 and 405. You guys drive.

00:12:14.000 That's a hell of a drive, that Redondo drive.

00:12:16.000 And he gave the school to us.

00:12:18.000 Wow.

00:12:19.000 Then he's like, what can I tell more about this guy?

00:12:22.000 That's amazing.

00:12:24.000 And that's why we have this school in the Valley, because he used to live in Encino.

00:12:27.000 The school was in Encino.

00:12:28.000 Then we start coming here, then here we are.

00:12:31.000 Joe Hogan.

00:12:32.000 Tarzana.

00:12:32.000 Come back to our school.

00:12:33.000 Yeah, that's amazing.

00:12:35.000 Wow, what a great guy.

00:12:37.000 But the point on that conversation was that...

00:12:42.000 Our school, when we opened our school, is to call Carlos Gracie Jiu-Jitsu because of our uncle.

00:12:47.000 Because when we came in, we had the Gracie School, and I remember the family is big, and everybody has your side of story.

00:12:54.000 Everybody is saying something about your uncle, your cousin, and we want to make sure that this side of the family that we were representing in a way was Carlos' side.

00:13:05.000 A lot of people when we did the grand opening, Chuck Norris were with us doing the self-defense and demonstration in the grand opening of the school.

00:13:15.000 And that was on Sunday.

00:13:17.000 On Monday, we're not even ready for the amount of people that show up at our school.

00:13:22.000 And we have a small place with the amount of people.

00:13:27.000 But a lot of people start calling the other school asking where our school was.

00:13:32.000 Because we're not even on the book.

00:13:35.000 Yeah, we are not even on that.

00:13:37.000 And people are calling the other schools.

00:13:39.000 Hey, do you know where the other school is?

00:13:41.000 And that created a little situation back then.

00:13:45.000 And we got some calls from other cousins.

00:13:50.000 And they said, hey, you guys cannot use the name.

00:13:52.000 Then for the first time, using the name of our family, we realized, like, what?

00:13:57.000 Why not?

00:13:58.000 Because you don't have the last name.

00:14:00.000 You can't use it.

00:14:01.000 Then, for us, we grew up fighting for the family, doing everything for the family.

00:14:05.000 We still do.

00:14:06.000 Nothing changed.

00:14:08.000 But then, their suggestion was, yeah, you can call Machado.

00:14:12.000 Why do you call Gracie's name?

00:14:14.000 My family.

00:14:15.000 Was this because of Horian?

00:14:16.000 Yes.

00:14:17.000 Horian was a lawyer.

00:14:19.000 And so he was the one who kind of copyrighted it and wanted to make...

00:14:22.000 He was trying to sue Carlson at one point, right?

00:14:24.000 Man, but do you know the crazy thing was this.

00:14:26.000 We have one of the students, and as we learned Jiu Jitsu, the most important thing for me as an instructor was everybody can learn how to fight.

00:14:37.000 How can you translate what you learn on the mat to implement in your personal life?

00:14:42.000 That's how we learn Jiu Jitsu.

00:14:43.000 The impact that Jiu Jitsu has on you.

00:14:45.000 To succeed outside the academy.

00:14:47.000 I know you can fight.

00:14:48.000 But can you fight on your life outside?

00:14:51.000 Then it's a different ballgame.

00:14:52.000 It's a lot bigger.

00:14:53.000 And a lot harder.

00:14:54.000 And we have a lot of students that came to us when we have our garage time that changed their life.

00:15:01.000 And coincidentally, one of the students...

00:15:05.000 Happens to be son of the biggest lawyer in California.

00:15:10.000 And we have no idea.

00:15:11.000 Because we end up getting sued by one side of the family.

00:15:15.000 Then we have no money.

00:15:16.000 We turn to the show and say, guys, I'm sorry, we're going to have to leave.

00:15:20.000 So you thought you were going to close down the school?

00:15:21.000 Oh, yeah.

00:15:22.000 Then we had this guy, which his father was very grateful to us, show up, say, look, I'm this hotshot lawyer.

00:15:30.000 I can represent you guys like, wait a minute to pay.

00:15:32.000 No, you guys are ready.

00:15:33.000 I owe you because my son was saved by you guys.

00:15:37.000 And who's your son?

00:15:38.000 And his son was 21st for quite some time, became very good in Jiu Jiu to change his life around.

00:15:44.000 He was a drug addict.

00:15:45.000 Now he's one of the best yoga instructors out there.

00:15:48.000 A jujitsu addict.

00:15:50.000 There we go.

00:15:50.000 And changed his life.

00:15:52.000 And that lawyer protected us.

00:15:53.000 Made sure that we stay here fine.

00:15:56.000 Protected.

00:15:56.000 And that was in the past.

00:15:58.000 Today, all our families.

00:15:59.000 We have our difference back then.

00:16:01.000 It's less now.

00:16:02.000 Oh, it's nothing now.

00:16:04.000 Well, there's enough for everybody now.

00:16:05.000 I think everybody realizes.

00:16:06.000 In the beginning, jujitsu was so new and so powerful.

00:16:09.000 And that Gracie name was so huge.

00:16:11.000 Do you remember when Vitor, they used to call him Vitor Gracie?

00:16:14.000 Yes.

00:16:14.000 They would call him Victor for some reason.

00:16:17.000 It was Victor, V-I-K-T-O-R, and then it became Vitor.

00:16:21.000 I was there when they were calling him Victor Gracie.

00:16:24.000 Man, do you know the amazing thing?

00:16:25.000 I, as a fighter, and in my generation in Brazil, everybody wants to be part of the family.

00:16:32.000 Of course.

00:16:32.000 Everybody wants to feel that you're in that big circle because there's so much history.

00:16:37.000 The name is so huge.

00:16:39.000 I think it's August 12th at your birthday, right?

00:16:42.000 August 11th.

00:16:42.000 August 11th, they're going to have a statue of Carson Gracie being in Copacabana in Rio.

00:16:48.000 I mean, a lot of recognitions happen now.

00:16:51.000 But Jiu-Jitsu, and especially the great Jiu-Jitsu, because anyone that does Jiu-Jitsu today, you're doing great Jiu-Jitsu somehow.

00:16:58.000 Maybe second generation, third generation, a student of this guy who his instructor was a student of.

00:17:04.000 I mean, I think everybody should be, and they are grateful for what their family has done.

00:17:09.000 Yes.

00:17:10.000 It's the most important family in the history of martial arts by a long shot.

00:17:16.000 Man, it changed the world.

00:17:17.000 Changed the world.

00:17:18.000 Changed the world.

00:17:19.000 Changed my world.

00:17:20.000 I remember when the UFC came out and I watched it.

00:17:23.000 And I had been a striker my whole life.

00:17:25.000 And I had done a little wrestling in high school.

00:17:29.000 But no jujitsu, no submissions, no nothing.

00:17:31.000 And I watched Hoist Gracie just run through everybody and I felt so vulnerable.

00:17:36.000 I was like, oh no, I don't know any of this.

00:17:39.000 What the fuck?

00:17:40.000 I was watching him take guys down and just strangle them.

00:17:43.000 I'm like, shit!

00:17:44.000 And these guys were killers.

00:17:46.000 They were stand-up killers.

00:17:47.000 And Hoist was just dominating everybody.

00:17:50.000 I mean, when I was in Arizona, I remember the first one, the show on the pay-per-view, and I was in Denver, right?

00:17:56.000 The first UFC. And I was teaching a seminar, and I think back to those days, the guy paid me $1,000 for the weekend, and I was watching a group of guys, and they were not even sure.

00:18:07.000 And I put them on the table and said, hey, who wants to make a bet that the skinny little guy, like, look like a doctor, is going to win everything?

00:18:15.000 Yeah.

00:18:15.000 And everybody's like, no, no.

00:18:17.000 Okay, put the money down.

00:18:18.000 Nobody put the money down.

00:18:20.000 And here we are because we knew what Jiu-Jitsu is.

00:18:24.000 We knew that Jiu-Jitsu works.

00:18:26.000 And I think Jiu-Jitsu brought a lot of reality into the martial arts world.

00:18:31.000 Oh, yeah.

00:18:32.000 We made a lot of enemies that today are our friends because we showed something that people refuse to learn until they have no other choice.

00:18:42.000 They have no other choice now.

00:18:43.000 They know?

00:18:43.000 Yeah.

00:18:43.000 Man, we have UFC, the biggest fighting show in the world.

00:18:47.000 Where'd that come from?

00:18:48.000 Came from Horian.

00:18:49.000 There we go.

00:18:49.000 Came from the streets in Brazil to the world.

00:18:52.000 And Horian Gracie, who we all owe a huge debt to, he wanted to prove the effectiveness of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.

00:19:00.000 So he established the Ultimate Fighting Championship.

00:19:03.000 And that's where it came from.

00:19:04.000 It came from that guy's imagination and his desire to spread the word of his family.

00:19:09.000 That's what jiu-jitsu do for people.

00:19:12.000 Make you believe.

00:19:13.000 Imagine if you did not believe in what he has and what he learned.

00:19:17.000 None of us will be here talking today.

00:19:19.000 We're probably still doing something else and maybe not as happy as we are today.

00:19:24.000 It's amazing, man.

00:19:26.000 The whole story is...

00:19:27.000 It's hard for people to understand, too, that have never practiced how fun it is.

00:19:33.000 And it makes your mind a better thing.

00:19:36.000 I was telling some of the students, jiu-jitsu...

00:19:39.000 It's a health way for you to be bullied by someone.

00:19:44.000 You're in a school environment, and you have the high belts playing with the white belts.

00:19:49.000 Yes.

00:19:50.000 Day in, day out, the white belts come in.

00:19:53.000 It's literally being bullied in a health way because it's in our safe environment.

00:19:57.000 Well, it's not bullying where you're not getting picked on, but you're getting manhandled.

00:20:00.000 Then, the thing is, they get smashed daily, they come back for next class.

00:20:05.000 Yes.

00:20:05.000 Next class.

00:20:06.000 Until soon, they're going to be able to do the same thing.

00:20:11.000 Yes.

00:20:11.000 And that little step they do, they realize, like, well...

00:20:15.000 I'm being picked by someone.

00:20:16.000 Now I stand by myself and I'm able to, and he turned the table around.

00:20:21.000 It's a very healthy way to be picked up, smashed every day, that if you stay there, stick there, you're going to use that, you're going to reverse that.

00:20:30.000 You get choked, pretty soon you're going to be choking someone.

00:20:32.000 You're going to unbar someone.

00:20:34.000 And as I'm walking up in the stairs, And that's how we grew up.

00:20:39.000 We go to the schools, we get beat up by the older cousins.

00:20:43.000 Oh man, I don't think that's for me.

00:20:44.000 But then we come back one more time.

00:20:46.000 Then we come back one more time.

00:20:48.000 Then 40 years later, we're still coming back for one more time.

00:20:51.000 Well, it teaches you not just resilience, but how important it is to just keep showing up.

00:20:57.000 Man, it's fun.

00:21:01.000 The whole thing.

00:21:02.000 You get choked.

00:21:03.000 You go home like, how did that guy choke me?

00:21:05.000 I thought I knew how to defend that.

00:21:08.000 How did he make me turn in the way that he got the choke?

00:21:12.000 Then it's intrigue.

00:21:13.000 Then you keep...

00:21:13.000 And back in the 80s, we had no videos.

00:21:15.000 We had to try to memorize and see how this actually happened.

00:21:20.000 Right.

00:21:20.000 It's...

00:21:21.000 It was a lot more challenging because you have to try to remake it, not sure if that's what actually happened to you.

00:21:28.000 But the amazing thing, I remember a lot of times I'm looking around the mats, I have all my brothers, all my cousins.

00:21:39.000 It's no way someone in this room will not have the answer for the question that you have.

00:21:46.000 Right.

00:21:47.000 And you have so many different views that it's impossible for you not to learn and not get good in Jiu Jitsu.

00:21:53.000 Yeah.

00:21:54.000 You have so many amazing fighters out there knowing more than you know.

00:22:00.000 Then I remember every time I ask something to the technique, I get five different answers.

00:22:04.000 Yeah.

00:22:04.000 And I use the one that works for me.

00:22:06.000 Well, that's what's interesting, right, is that everyone has a different approach.

00:22:09.000 That jiu-jitsu is almost like the way people talk.

00:22:13.000 It's like having conversations.

00:22:14.000 People use different words and different styles and...

00:22:18.000 And the amazing thing is, let's say we train and I do well with you.

00:22:24.000 Then you train with that guy, you do well with that guy.

00:22:28.000 In the theory, I should be doing well with that guy.

00:22:30.000 No.

00:22:31.000 Maybe his game does not fit with my game.

00:22:34.000 I might have a lot of difficulties against him, which I shouldn't.

00:22:39.000 But it's the match-up game.

00:22:40.000 It's very interesting.

00:22:42.000 It's nothing that is guaranteed, oh, that guy's gonna...

00:22:44.000 No, it's not.

00:22:46.000 Maybe my game is used to yours, but not to his.

00:22:49.000 Well, that was the most amazing thing about Hickson, right?

00:22:52.000 Because Hickson was the one guy that everyone said was the best.

00:22:57.000 When I grew up, and I have to say, it was a privilege to watch.

00:23:02.000 For me, I have some guys from Carson School that were amazing fighters.

00:23:08.000 I used to watch them, and I remember one of them, Cassio Cardoso, for me was phenomenal.

00:23:14.000 We have definitely Heuler for his size, his weight.

00:23:19.000 Most accomplished.

00:23:21.000 Phenomenal.

00:23:22.000 Phenomenal, man.

00:23:24.000 What this guy did with his size against...

00:23:27.000 Opponents, people look like, no way.

00:23:29.000 And yes, it is a way.

00:23:31.000 And definitely, as you're going heavier, I have my brother Higan, which was an amazing fighter too.

00:23:39.000 And evidently, for me, my time was Hickson.

00:23:43.000 It's like you have the era of Hickson.

00:23:47.000 A lot of unbelievable fighters, but you're in the wrong decade to have Hickson there.

00:23:53.000 Could be you, but he was right there.

00:23:56.000 Right.

00:23:56.000 You could have been number two under Hickson.

00:23:58.000 You could have been number one under anybody under Hickson.

00:24:00.000 And the amazing thing, you feel like a chameleon.

00:24:02.000 He can kind of make any game.

00:24:05.000 You train him, he can pretend to be you fighting me or anybody.

00:24:10.000 It's amazing that aspect, especially on the teaching process.

00:24:13.000 What was so good about him?

00:24:16.000 He used to go to our school, we have 30 of the best guys, all higher belts.

00:24:22.000 And he tells you, okay, choose how you want to start.

00:24:25.000 And you choose, okay, he's not going to get out.

00:24:27.000 He gets out, and he gets you in the position you ask him to start.

00:24:31.000 With everyone, I think the most, the best thing that he has on his game, on my view, and today I understand that, was his defense.

00:24:42.000 No way to get him.

00:24:44.000 He let your mom take his back.

00:24:46.000 Do whatever you want.

00:24:47.000 You can get him.

00:24:47.000 He used to start, like guys, take his back with a rear naked choke, fully locked in.

00:24:52.000 Black belts.

00:24:53.000 Go ahead.

00:24:54.000 Start from here.

00:24:55.000 And then he would defend.

00:24:57.000 Get out.

00:24:58.000 And get you there.

00:24:59.000 Yeah.

00:24:59.000 Crazy.

00:25:00.000 Then messes your mind up.

00:25:02.000 Like, hey, wait a minute.

00:25:03.000 Yeah.

00:25:04.000 How can he get out and he gets me here, can get out?

00:25:07.000 You know?

00:25:08.000 And I think the amazing thing was his confidence and belief on that.

00:25:13.000 It makes amazing.

00:25:14.000 Well, he was unusual in that he was really into physical fitness as well, like yoga, really into yoga, become incredibly flexible and strong, and really into breathing.

00:25:24.000 He had an amazing control of his body, as well as the knowledge of jiu-jitsu.

00:25:30.000 Man, he brought a lot of elements to jiu-jitsu.

00:25:33.000 I don't think people realize how important it was.

00:25:36.000 Because people say, oh, I knew that.

00:25:38.000 No, you did not.

00:25:39.000 He brought in the breathing aspect.

00:25:41.000 The gymnastica that makes you come closer to the nature habitat.

00:25:47.000 Yeah, gymnastica natural is what we're talking about.

00:25:50.000 It's a style of...

00:25:51.000 Who invented that?

00:25:52.000 What was the man who invented that?

00:25:53.000 Orlando Coney.

00:25:55.000 And it was a Brazilian thing as well.

00:25:56.000 Brazilian guy.

00:25:57.000 He's still alive in his 80s.

00:25:58.000 And you look at him like, how can he do or still do that?

00:26:02.000 Really?

00:26:03.000 And the whole idea is move your body...

00:26:05.000 Like the animals.

00:26:06.000 Right.

00:26:07.000 To bring back to us the animal instinct that we end up losing by the generations.

00:26:12.000 You see some of that now with Ido Portal and a lot of these guys are training martial artists in these movement classes and movement styles.

00:26:22.000 And a lot of that is very similar to Gymnastica Natural.

00:26:27.000 Amazing, but the biggest difference, I think, was the concept that he used, the approach that he used.

00:26:34.000 It wasn't as just mechanical the way it is.

00:26:38.000 It was something that sometimes on the exercise you change the direction of your movements.

00:26:44.000 It's not certain kata.

00:26:46.000 You have to do one, two, three, four.

00:26:47.000 No, he goes one, two, jump for ten, go back to six.

00:26:50.000 You flow.

00:26:52.000 And Hickson brought that into jiu-jitsu.

00:26:55.000 And I remember training.

00:26:56.000 He goes, hey, get there.

00:26:59.000 Keep moving.

00:27:00.000 Keep moving.

00:27:01.000 Don't stop moving.

00:27:01.000 Keep the flow of the technique.

00:27:04.000 You're going to get it.

00:27:05.000 And he brought that movement into jiu-jitsu, which for me made a huge difference in the way I fight.

00:27:12.000 How did you fight before that?

00:27:15.000 We learn the technique, we do the drills, and it's more like you pause and wait for somebody to pause in this position.

00:27:24.000 When he came in, I understand that you learn how to start guiding people to where you want them to go.

00:27:31.000 I'm training a few.

00:27:32.000 I want you to go to my left.

00:27:34.000 There's no other way for you to go to my right.

00:27:36.000 I learned how to mold my body in a way.

00:27:38.000 The only direction you will have to go is on my left.

00:27:41.000 I know that, but you don't.

00:27:43.000 Right.

00:27:43.000 There we go.

00:27:44.000 I'm one step ahead.

00:27:45.000 Then when you go to my left, you're going to put your left hand on the ground instead of your right hand.

00:27:49.000 I know that too.

00:27:50.000 Then I'm two steps ahead of you.

00:27:52.000 I mean, when you're trying to defend something, you're already two steps behind.

00:27:57.000 Because the defense is always shorter than the offense.

00:28:00.000 You stretch your arm.

00:28:02.000 For me to get your arm, I have to put my hands and swing my leg.

00:28:05.000 For you, just bring your arm back.

00:28:06.000 It's always short.

00:28:08.000 It's quicker.

00:28:09.000 That's why when you have one or two steps ahead, you don't have the time To defend.

00:28:15.000 Right, you're blocking off the defense.

00:28:17.000 I'm already too far ahead for you to defend.

00:28:19.000 Right.

00:28:19.000 And that's what I learned with those movements that he brought into Jiu Jitsu.

00:28:24.000 You start learning how to guide and mold yourself to make you go to that direction.

00:28:29.000 Who was a challenge to him in the early days?

00:28:32.000 Because there was a lot of great guys, right?

00:28:34.000 We have a lot of great guys, and it's funny.

00:28:36.000 Sometimes I go to the internet and see some of the fights.

00:28:41.000 And you notice that a lot of guys, they can kind of hang out for until five minutes.

00:28:47.000 After five minutes, and great athletes, they're just done.

00:28:50.000 Right.

00:28:50.000 Because of that movement, he keep going constantly.

00:28:54.000 Keep that rhythm.

00:28:54.000 People were not able to keep up with him.

00:28:57.000 Right.

00:28:58.000 And he's not lifting weights and a bodybuilder, no.

00:29:01.000 And we learn how important for a human is to be in contact with nature.

00:29:06.000 Would you imagine yourself not going for hiking some days in the morning?

00:29:09.000 I mean, we need that.

00:29:10.000 We need that energy.

00:29:12.000 Yeah.

00:29:12.000 We need to walk without shoes.

00:29:13.000 We need to be near the mountains, the water.

00:29:16.000 That's something that makes us healthy and stronger.

00:29:20.000 And that's why you see we used to go a lot up in the mountains and waterfalls and out of the city to try to get that in a halfway animal instinct that we have.

00:29:30.000 Yeah.

00:29:30.000 We're there, listen to the birds.

00:29:32.000 Yeah.

00:29:33.000 Listen to, in the middle, oh, maybe it's a coyote there.

00:29:38.000 People that are in the city, they go in the mountains, they're going to get eaten by a mountain lion.

00:29:42.000 Not even hear the mountain lion.

00:29:44.000 But if you're walking there, quite often you understand that you develop and still have that, oh, I heard something there.

00:29:51.000 We're losing more of that.

00:29:53.000 As Jiu-Jitsu, we're trying to bring people into that environment.

00:29:57.000 Which is something that makes you better off, regardless.

00:30:01.000 Be more aware of yourself.

00:30:02.000 Exactly.

00:30:03.000 Yeah.

00:30:04.000 More primal.

00:30:06.000 Also, the struggle of jiu-jitsu is so much different than what most people experience on a daily basis, where you're literally trying to stop someone from choking you.

00:30:17.000 And it's a friend.

00:30:18.000 Like a good friend.

00:30:19.000 Like you love them like a brother.

00:30:21.000 But they're trying to choke the shit out of you.

00:30:23.000 And you're trying to stop them.

00:30:25.000 And the amazing thing, you're trying to stop and you don't get mad at him.

00:30:28.000 Not at all.

00:30:29.000 You say, thank you, man.

00:30:30.000 Slap hands.

00:30:31.000 And then I say, how'd you get me?

00:30:32.000 Like, oh, you forgot this.

00:30:33.000 Like, oh.

00:30:35.000 Here we go.

00:30:36.000 It's the amazing thing.

00:30:38.000 One student said something like, do you know why Jiu Jitsu people are so friendly?

00:30:41.000 Because they hug each other at the time.

00:30:43.000 I think you're right.

00:30:46.000 There's something to that.

00:30:47.000 There's so much physical contact.

00:30:49.000 That is true.

00:30:50.000 There's something to that.

00:30:51.000 But I think it's the eye contact, the talking to each other.

00:30:57.000 In that exchange of information.

00:30:59.000 It's also humbling, which I think people need.

00:31:02.000 I think people have a distorted perception of what they can do in this life.

00:31:07.000 And I think sometimes you need to understand this is where you are.

00:31:10.000 And one of the beautiful things about the ranking system of jiu-jitsu is, you know, when you give someone a purple belt, you say, hey, this is real.

00:31:18.000 You're ready for this.

00:31:19.000 I've seen you.

00:31:20.000 I watch you.

00:31:21.000 I know.

00:31:21.000 You know 100% where they are.

00:31:23.000 They're ready to get a purple belt.

00:31:25.000 And then it's this feeling like, okay, all this showing up day after day, drilling after drilling, coming in when I don't want to.

00:31:32.000 Is this paying off?

00:31:33.000 And I've reached a new place.

00:31:35.000 It sounds like when you promote someone as a flashback.

00:31:38.000 They go back like, whoa.

00:31:39.000 Yeah.

00:31:40.000 They realize all this time that I bring, in a very good way, suffering, going through this, it worth.

00:31:47.000 I'm right here, right now, feeling much better.

00:31:50.000 When you gave me my purple belt, I remember thinking, that was probably one of the happiest moments of my life.

00:31:57.000 Because to me, a purple belt was like, a blue belt was like you just kept showing up.

00:32:01.000 You kept showing up.

00:32:02.000 You kept showing up.

00:32:03.000 Now you got a blue belt.

00:32:04.000 But a purple belt was like, you could get a black belt.

00:32:07.000 You just have to keep going.

00:32:09.000 Even the top of the mountain is a purple belt.

00:32:11.000 You're right there with all the top guys.

00:32:14.000 There's no way down.

00:32:16.000 There's just up.

00:32:17.000 You're right there with all of them.

00:32:19.000 That was during the Fear Factor days.

00:32:20.000 I was more happy about getting that purple belt than I was about getting Fear Factor.

00:32:24.000 I have to mention something because I get a lot of messages from people like, oh man, is Joe Hogan good and Joe Hogan Jiu-Jitsu is good?

00:32:31.000 I say, man, come to my school anytime Joe Hogan shows up.

00:32:36.000 And he's back now training.

00:32:38.000 It's not about his power, man.

00:32:40.000 He doesn't care.

00:32:41.000 He wrestles everybody, anybody.

00:32:43.000 And I see him twisting people around there in the school.

00:32:46.000 And he's one, and this is real, he's one of the hardest student training partners that I have.

00:32:54.000 And I think one of the last time I wrestled him in my Malibu school, I think we trained maybe for half an hour, something like that.

00:33:01.000 I was there for, I don't know, 20 minutes just trying to sweep Joe, and Joe was right there.

00:33:07.000 I finished the training and said, man, my legs are sore.

00:33:10.000 And I don't remember if I did sweep him or not.

00:33:13.000 I just stopped training after half an hour.

00:33:15.000 And I want people to understand that anybody that I want to train, I will never, and I refuse, I never give a belt to anybody unless they deserve the belt.

00:33:26.000 And when I say deserve, I don't defer people from more famous, less famous.

00:33:32.000 No, everybody in Jiu-Jitsu world is the same.

00:33:35.000 You have to walk in the same road as everybody.

00:33:38.000 Because that's the only way you're actually going to learn Jiu-Jitsu for real.

00:33:42.000 Yes.

00:33:43.000 And I don't remember you saying no to anybody, training, get hurt a lot of times, don't care, show up, and my neck is here, my knee is there, and training.

00:33:52.000 And you're out there that you listen.

00:33:54.000 Here's one...

00:33:55.000 The strongest, excuse my language, motherfuckers I have in my school training jiu-jitsu with.

00:34:01.000 And that's why I'm here.

00:34:02.000 I'm pushing him to get back and I'm going to show up.

00:34:05.000 Now that I know where he is, I'm going to show up here.

00:34:08.000 What's up, Joe?

00:34:09.000 Where's your gear?

00:34:10.000 This is it, man.

00:34:10.000 As soon as I heal this fucking gear.

00:34:12.000 That is amazing.

00:34:13.000 And I want people to know.

00:34:14.000 That is the real deal.

00:34:17.000 Another thing that people don't know is when he was back in the Fear Factor time, he had one idea to...

00:34:24.000 One of the challenges for the people would be training, fighting a cage with me in that cage, doing jiu-jitsu.

00:34:32.000 And then I realized, Joe, you don't need me.

00:34:34.000 You go there and do it.

00:34:36.000 You're going to mangle everybody there.

00:34:38.000 You don't need anybody to do that.

00:34:40.000 He...

00:34:42.000 We end up not happening.

00:34:43.000 They decided that it was too dangerous to do a person versus a person.

00:34:48.000 They thought that there was too many legal implications.

00:34:50.000 Exactly.

00:34:50.000 Meanwhile, they had people ride a fucking bull.

00:34:55.000 So the challenge was they were going to have to start with you on the ground, like in your guard or with you mounting them.

00:35:02.000 We had to figure out what it was.

00:35:03.000 And whoever survived the longest.

00:35:07.000 But I told the guy, I said, man, you don't need me.

00:35:10.000 You can use Joe.

00:35:11.000 Joe's going to do the same thing and going to twist whatever needs to do.

00:35:15.000 He has all the tools for that.

00:35:17.000 That was funny.

00:35:19.000 The point was, you can do it.

00:35:21.000 There was no need for me to do it.

00:35:23.000 How are you still fairly injury-free after all these years?

00:35:28.000 Because what's interesting about you is, you know, you've been doing jujitsu forever, but you can still roll and train with people.

00:35:35.000 A lot of other guys, after a certain amount of time, they really can't roll anymore.

00:35:39.000 They develop all these back problems, back problems in particular.

00:35:43.000 Neck problems?

00:35:45.000 I learned, I mean, more you learn jiu-jitsu, less chance you have to get hurt.

00:35:50.000 And my point is, I'm always under control.

00:35:53.000 I'm always controlling my opponent.

00:35:55.000 And I know how to avoid certain situations before the situation actually happens.

00:36:00.000 Because a lot of times people go for the kill...

00:36:03.000 But not concerned about them getting killed.

00:36:05.000 Sometimes they expose themselves to being in a bad position.

00:36:09.000 And they have to learn sometimes you do an arm bar on somebody and somebody put all the weight on your neck and I see people insisting in getting there.

00:36:17.000 No, you go back, give up, keep the control, then you do it again.

00:36:20.000 But not insist in some bad positions.

00:36:23.000 And every day it has to do, how well do you eat?

00:36:27.000 How well do you sleep?

00:36:29.000 Do you exercise?

00:36:30.000 I mean, a lot of the things are involved.

00:36:32.000 But exercise, you mean like lift weights?

00:36:34.000 Lift weights and run, you know, and swim.

00:36:37.000 You have so many things that you can do.

00:36:40.000 And people say, oh, no, everybody's going to die one day.

00:36:43.000 Sure, we can die tomorrow, but I want to make sure the time I'm alive, I'm healthy.

00:36:46.000 Right.

00:36:47.000 And I don't see myself going to Jiu-Jitsu school teaching and not training.

00:36:51.000 But even Hickson can't train anymore.

00:36:52.000 Oh, now he's back training.

00:36:53.000 He's rolling?

00:36:54.000 Yes, he's rolling now.

00:36:55.000 When did he start rolling again?

00:36:56.000 I saw one of his students, they trained last week, just for an hour.

00:37:00.000 Wow.

00:37:01.000 He had an injury, and you got to understand a lot of...

00:37:03.000 He had a real bad back problem, right?

00:37:05.000 Yes, the back and hip, a lot of things, and a lot of those things happened more, not with Jiu-Jitsu, with some of the MMA fights.

00:37:12.000 You got to understand, back in those days, there was no protection at all, and people throw each other out of the ring, and that was something...

00:37:20.000 Yeah.

00:37:20.000 Very, very challenging and no weight class.

00:37:23.000 Yeah.

00:37:24.000 I mean, he show up as a young age fighting some monsters over there and it's like, man, I don't know how he did it, but he did it, you know, showing up and...

00:37:33.000 Like Zulu when he was 18. Zulu is insane.

00:37:36.000 He was so strong.

00:37:37.000 But it was more from that time, the next Jiu-Jitsu.

00:37:40.000 Jiu-Jitsu never got hurt in Jiu-Jitsu.

00:37:43.000 Neck or nothing.

00:37:45.000 Then he's back training.

00:37:47.000 Man, I would love it.

00:37:48.000 Jiu-jitsu is amazing, man.

00:37:50.000 I don't see myself with eight years old not be able to train.

00:37:54.000 You got a cortisone shot recently?

00:37:56.000 Yeah, I'm not sure what happened.

00:37:58.000 My knee bugs me and I go there, have a little meniscus tear.

00:38:02.000 I'm still training, have a certain position that it's not comfortable.

00:38:08.000 I have the court zone shot, and so far, so good.

00:38:11.000 Not bothering you anymore?

00:38:12.000 Not bothering me.

00:38:13.000 You have a certain position that...

00:38:14.000 But the physical therapy that I'm doing is being very helpful.

00:38:17.000 What kind of stuff are you doing?

00:38:19.000 And lifting weights and every day on a bike, doing things that make your legs stronger.

00:38:24.000 Bike's great.

00:38:25.000 Oh, bike is amazing.

00:38:26.000 So good for the knees.

00:38:27.000 No impact.

00:38:28.000 I mean, I think we have everything we need.

00:38:31.000 If I don't have, I can learn how to do it.

00:38:35.000 But man, Jiu Jitsu is a lifestyle in general.

00:38:38.000 Yes.

00:38:39.000 Yeah, it is.

00:38:41.000 It's almost like a philosophy, too, because there's a lot of people that they learn how to deal with life through the struggle of jiu-jitsu, because the struggle of training is so much harder than most of the struggles that you face in your daily life.

00:38:56.000 It makes you more accustomed to dealing with uncomfortable positions.

00:38:59.000 Man, I would tell you a funny story, what jiu-jitsu does for you.

00:39:04.000 My older daughter had some health issues, like at 2 o'clock in the morning, something like that, and called the doctor and said, look, I've got to go and get this inhaler or something at the pharmacy.

00:39:15.000 Man, I was wearing my pajamas, driving crazy to the pharmacy, and as I'm walking in, I have a guy walking out and bumping his shoulder in mine, and he said, hey, son of a dude, it's F you, and I said, man, 2 o'clock in the morning when I fight, go home, go to your wife, dude.

00:39:32.000 Then the guy, no, I'm going to wait for you.

00:39:33.000 Then he's outside, I go get the medication.

00:39:36.000 I put this stuff in, say, man, get the guy outside.

00:39:38.000 He's no longer there.

00:39:40.000 Several months later, the same guy show up at my school.

00:39:46.000 And I did not recognize him, but he keeps staring at me.

00:39:49.000 And I approach, hey, how are you?

00:39:51.000 Have you trained in JITS before?

00:39:52.000 I was like, do you remember me?

00:39:54.000 Did you train here before?

00:39:55.000 No.

00:39:56.000 I bump into you in the pharmacy.

00:40:00.000 And he goes like, thank you for not hurting me.

00:40:05.000 And I was like, man, what happened to you?

00:40:08.000 Oh, my father passed away a day before.

00:40:11.000 I was so depressed.

00:40:13.000 The point for me was, with Jiu Jitsu, I can walk away from something like that and I feel sorry for the guy.

00:40:20.000 I'm not concerned.

00:40:21.000 I'm afraid of him.

00:40:22.000 No, I'm not afraid.

00:40:23.000 It's just the fact that I'm saving him to get hurt.

00:40:26.000 Today he's one of my best friends.

00:40:29.000 He's my lawyer.

00:40:30.000 Wow.

00:40:31.000 My dear friend.

00:40:31.000 He's been training jiu-jitsu since that time.

00:40:34.000 Almost has 20 years.

00:40:36.000 Wow.

00:40:36.000 But I remember that day walking in and the guy bumped into me.

00:40:39.000 I wanna fight.

00:40:40.000 Wow.

00:40:41.000 And it's like, man, I walk away, no, no, no, you're too strong for me, man.

00:40:44.000 Go home and relax.

00:40:47.000 That's the difference, too, between jujitsu and kickboxing.

00:40:50.000 Because in kickboxing, you can only hurt somebody.

00:40:54.000 You can't really, like, hold on to them and go, hey, hey, hey.

00:40:56.000 You ever see the video?

00:40:57.000 He was already hurt, man.

00:40:58.000 You ever see the video?

00:40:59.000 Yeah, right, right.

00:41:00.000 He was already hurt.

00:41:01.000 Emotionally, right?

00:41:01.000 You ever see the video of Matt Serra?

00:41:03.000 Matt Serra was in an altercation with some drunk guy.

00:41:07.000 In a bar or a restaurant or something like that.

00:41:10.000 I think I saw that.

00:41:11.000 It's meanwhile.

00:41:11.000 Matt just took the guy down, mounted him, and was just holding on to his wrists.

00:41:15.000 And he was like, calm down, calm down.

00:41:17.000 And the employers are trying to figure out what to do.

00:41:20.000 He's like, he's fine, he's fine, calm down.

00:41:23.000 But Matt didn't hurt him.

00:41:25.000 He just held on to him and basically just mounted him and grabbed ahold of his wrists and was controlling him.

00:41:32.000 Man, when we say jiu-jitsu is a gentle word, we mean that.

00:41:37.000 Jiu-jitsu will give you the choice to choose to hurt someone or not.

00:41:44.000 And I think more you're trying to realize that that person has something already going on in their life.

00:41:49.000 And we choose not to.

00:41:51.000 Yeah.

00:41:51.000 I mean, we grew up in our time and it's funny.

00:41:54.000 We're teenagers and no jiu-jitsu tournaments.

00:41:56.000 Then we go like, how are we going to test ourselves?

00:41:59.000 And back in the 80s in Brazil, we had some fun time.

00:42:02.000 We go to a nightclub and fight breaks through and here we are practicing our jiu-jitsu.

00:42:08.000 But not hurting anybody.

00:42:10.000 And not because we choose or somebody provoke.

00:42:13.000 No, we get people coming towards us because we're always little guys.

00:42:16.000 We're never the biggest guys in the place.

00:42:18.000 Then we just make sure like, man, we take them down, hold, choke somebody out, but no scratch.

00:42:24.000 And on the end, those people become students of our school.

00:42:27.000 Right.

00:42:27.000 All those little kids can do that to us.

00:42:30.000 Right.

00:42:31.000 And that's one way that's funny in the 80s that Jiu-Jitsu became even bigger.

00:42:35.000 With some of the altercations on the street, we convinced the person that we just fought, we just choked, to come and become our student.

00:42:44.000 Because you didn't hurt them.

00:42:46.000 And they end up coming and learn that.

00:42:48.000 They feel humiliated, but at least they feel thankful that you didn't injure them.

00:42:54.000 For sure, yeah.

00:42:56.000 In a fight, man, I think Jiu Jitsu gives you that sense of control, that you have that choice.

00:43:03.000 This is the way I always explain to people.

00:43:05.000 I say, if I'm in a street fight with someone and they're swinging, if it's a strong person, if it's a strong person, they're a good athlete, they have strong arms, and they're throwing punches at me, if I get hit, I'm in trouble.

00:43:16.000 No matter who you are, if you get hit, you're in trouble.

00:43:18.000 Most likely, I won't get hit if I know how to fight and I keep my hands up and I move right.

00:43:23.000 But if I get a hold of you, You're not doing anything to me.

00:43:27.000 There's a difference between someone who's untrained and someone who's trained.

00:43:30.000 If a jiu-jitsu black belt grabs a person and actually gets control of them, you're not going to luckily submit me.

00:43:39.000 It's not going to happen, but you can hit someone.

00:43:42.000 It can happen in a street fight.

00:43:44.000 If someone has a little bit of speed and they have power and there's a strong person, they can hit you.

00:43:50.000 It's much more dangerous.

00:43:51.000 And that's the only, and we always want to train, it was the only opportunity our opponent has is before we close the distance.

00:43:59.000 Right.

00:43:59.000 That's the danger zone.

00:44:01.000 And if you think for a second, a lot of things that we do on the ground in Jiu Jitsu, you just bring those two people up in the close distance, it's the same thing.

00:44:11.000 And a lot of people today, they don't do the same.

00:44:14.000 They're trying to fight standing when they hold, different than when you're on the ground.

00:44:17.000 The way you move your legs, the way you play guard, it's the same thing when you're standing.

00:44:21.000 Work on the people's body as a hook, as a sweep to make somebody fall.

00:44:25.000 And we learn that when we get close to someone, we make the size not be affected as much as could if you have a distance.

00:44:36.000 Do you think that...

00:44:37.000 There was a transitionary period where a lot of jiu-jitsu guys were having a hard time because they didn't know how to take people down.

00:44:43.000 And then the wrestlers were learning how to keep them at distance.

00:44:46.000 They were learning to take down defense.

00:44:50.000 Yes.

00:44:51.000 And that's the very challenging thing.

00:44:53.000 But if I'm fighting a wrestler, what are the chances that he's going to take me down?

00:44:58.000 It's higher than me actually taking him down.

00:45:00.000 Right.

00:45:01.000 And most of the things that we do in the jiu-jitsu...

00:45:05.000 What we see in the sports Jiu Jitsu today, we're not going to use it in a real fight.

00:45:11.000 Most of the Jiu Jitsu we see in tournaments, we're not going to use that in a fight.

00:45:16.000 That's the difference from that generation of the 80s to the generations from the 90s until up today.

00:45:23.000 It's two different kinds of Jiu Jitsu.

00:45:26.000 One is a sport which is very beautiful.

00:45:28.000 A lot of people do amazing techniques.

00:45:31.000 But the rules of the sport had the tendency to take to another direction.

00:45:36.000 And when you have the jiu-jitsu as the 80s, we practice using a lot of leverage with the arms, patience.

00:45:45.000 And when we play guard in the 80s, it's different than we play today.

00:45:50.000 Today we have a lot of gis wrapping around everything.

00:45:52.000 The gi became a weapon.

00:45:54.000 In our time, the gi was never a weapon.

00:45:56.000 The gi was almost like a paper.

00:45:57.000 Right.

00:45:58.000 We use a lot the neck, a lot the elbow.

00:46:00.000 Well, that's what helped you when you transitioned to no gi, right?

00:46:03.000 Well, definitely.

00:46:04.000 And also because you were born with no fingers on your left hand.

00:46:07.000 Man, for me until today, there's no difference.

00:46:10.000 Right.

00:46:10.000 I play exactly the same in both.

00:46:12.000 Right.

00:46:12.000 No difference at all.

00:46:14.000 But you were all overhooks and underhooks and grips around the body.

00:46:18.000 And whereas the guys who transitioned to MMA and their all game relied on grabbing collars and sleeves, those guys had a harder time.

00:46:27.000 For sure.

00:46:28.000 A lot of guys, that's why a lot of guys are trying to come in, they might be good in their top games, but when they go on their back, they are kind of a little lost until they understand how to play the game.

00:46:42.000 Yeah, that's why it's so impressive when you see a big guy who also has a great back, great off his back, like Fabrizio Verdeum.

00:46:50.000 I think if you notice, if I'm on the bottom of someone and I'm flat, I'm a target.

00:46:57.000 Right.

00:46:57.000 I have to change the angle.

00:46:59.000 If I don't change the angle, I'm going to get ground and pound.

00:47:02.000 Right.

00:47:02.000 Like we've been seeing a lot.

00:47:03.000 Yes.

00:47:04.000 And you see some, oh, this is a black belt in Jiu-Jitsu.

00:47:06.000 Then you go like, oh, he's flat on his back.

00:47:09.000 That means all my weight now is affecting you.

00:47:11.000 I'm dropping you.

00:47:12.000 You have to learn that your legs should be in an angle.

00:47:15.000 This way I'm not able to hit you there.

00:47:18.000 Your legs are on the way.

00:47:20.000 And that's one thing that very few guys do.

00:47:23.000 Or you close the distance, or you change the angle.

00:47:26.000 But it can be look at him trying to hold his neck.

00:47:30.000 He's going to hit you hard.

00:47:31.000 Well, Eddie figured out a brilliant thing with rubber guard.

00:47:34.000 A brilliant thing with mission control and how to control from the back of the neck.

00:47:39.000 He closes the distance.

00:47:40.000 He closes the distance.

00:47:42.000 He changed a lot of people's games.

00:47:44.000 What some people...

00:47:46.000 Don't want to recognize, but they have to, is the idea that he had.

00:47:53.000 And I remember him coming up and trying some of the techniques and people, oh, this is crazy.

00:47:58.000 I said, no, man, keep going.

00:47:59.000 You're going to get somewhere.

00:48:00.000 Yeah.

00:48:02.000 I don't think not everybody can do that because you have to be a little bit flexible.

00:48:07.000 But once you learn how to do it, you save your life.

00:48:10.000 Yeah.

00:48:10.000 How many guys that when they get a hold of their foot and keep their clothes, there's no gap or room for the person on top to hit you.

00:48:18.000 And as you're trying to move too much, your arm suddenly is stuck.

00:48:22.000 Yep.

00:48:23.000 And there we go.

00:48:24.000 He closes the distance.

00:48:26.000 You can't be playing when my arms are free because I'm going to ground and pound you, especially the heavy guys.

00:48:31.000 You can hit once or twice, that's it.

00:48:33.000 Yeah, he figured out some very unique ways to use his legs.

00:48:37.000 And you notice that you close the distance or he change the angle.

00:48:40.000 Close the distance, change the angle.

00:48:43.000 Whoever is on top, you don't have space or you don't have the angle.

00:48:46.000 You're always in a weird position when they get a hold of your head and the leg the way he does.

00:48:51.000 It's interesting to see the evolution of Jiu Jitsu from 1993 UFC style to 2019 too.

00:48:58.000 There's so many new techniques, there's so many new approaches, but there's some guys like Haja Gracie, for instance, Who just use the basics honed to razor sharp edge.

00:49:10.000 You don't see a lot of crazy barambolo chokes or wild things from a guy.

00:49:15.000 A lot of the real rock solid traditional techniques guys.

00:49:23.000 The simple works all the time.

00:49:25.000 Yes.

00:49:26.000 Whichever simple works all the time.

00:49:27.000 Yeah.

00:49:28.000 Anything jiu-jitsu that requires more than three steps, you need to train a lot.

00:49:33.000 But even Hickson, right?

00:49:34.000 Like Hickson's style was just, it wasn't anything that no one knew how to do.

00:49:39.000 It's just he knew how to do it better than anyone.

00:49:42.000 There we go.

00:49:43.000 He's the way he moved.

00:49:44.000 Yes.

00:49:45.000 You can't find him.

00:49:46.000 Right.

00:49:47.000 And once you find him, he gets out and gets you.

00:49:49.000 He goes around your back.

00:49:50.000 It was amazing, man.

00:49:52.000 Triangles, arm bars, rear naked chokes, normal stuff, normal things that everybody knows how to do.

00:49:57.000 You get to his guard, you know you're going to fall on your back.

00:50:00.000 Yes.

00:50:01.000 Simple as that.

00:50:02.000 Oh, I'm his guard.

00:50:03.000 I'm going to fall on his back.

00:50:04.000 He's going to sweep me.

00:50:05.000 Yeah.

00:50:05.000 Oh, I'm not going to sweep.

00:50:07.000 Oh, he's going to unbar me.

00:50:08.000 I mean...

00:50:09.000 It's not much where you can feel safe.

00:50:12.000 And today you see a lot of In Jiu-Jitsu, you need something called transition.

00:50:18.000 You go from number one, beginning the position, transition, then you have the submission.

00:50:24.000 Today, they jump from number one beginning to the submission.

00:50:30.000 There's no transition.

00:50:31.000 The transition now has become muscle.

00:50:34.000 They have to overpower.

00:50:35.000 I've never seen so many injuries today in the Jiu-Jitsu competition.

00:50:40.000 Really?

00:50:40.000 So many injuries.

00:50:41.000 Shoulders, knee, foot, elbow.

00:50:43.000 Like, my God.

00:50:45.000 What do you think it's from?

00:50:46.000 Because it's no...

00:50:48.000 You're missing a lot of sometimes the finesse to get there.

00:50:51.000 They have to muscle.

00:50:52.000 Well, that's one of the reasons why I wanted to talk to you about your longevity.

00:50:56.000 Because you are the best guy that I know of in terms of like you...

00:51:00.000 I mean, you have a little knee injury, a little meniscus, but that's it.

00:51:03.000 I've known you forever.

00:51:05.000 You've never had, like, a major surgery.

00:51:06.000 You've never had, like, a major problem.

00:51:08.000 And everybody I know gets hurt.

00:51:11.000 Everybody.

00:51:13.000 Again, it's the way you train, the way you control the fight.

00:51:16.000 I think people got to understand is I'd rather get you once, but I get you well, than trying to get you 20 times.

00:51:24.000 Sometimes people try to go after each other and they're...

00:51:28.000 Injury will happen.

00:51:29.000 Right.

00:51:30.000 Because they're clashing.

00:51:31.000 Exactly.

00:51:32.000 Yeah.

00:51:32.000 If I have somebody come very tense to me, I don't play tense back.

00:51:36.000 Right.

00:51:36.000 I try to relax.

00:51:37.000 The more you relax, the more I'm going to be able to achieve against you.

00:51:41.000 I remember when you competed against Dean Lister and he was about 250,000 pounds.

00:51:46.000 T.T. was so fucking big.

00:51:48.000 He was so big.

00:51:50.000 But you were able to use your technique.

00:51:53.000 There was a very big frustration for me on that event because I remember I was training to be in my weight class below 170. And that year I was with Marcelo Garcia.

00:52:05.000 We had some good names, good guys to fight.

00:52:08.000 And I was training a lot for that.

00:52:10.000 And I think a week and a half before the event, Arona was supposed to fight Dean Lister.

00:52:18.000 But back in those days, I think his contract with Pride did not allow him to fight because their concern is an injury happened and he's going to be missing the Pride fight.

00:52:30.000 Then they come a week and a half.

00:52:32.000 To offer me that fight.

00:52:34.000 And I end up taking that fight, but I don't think I trained specific and focused to fight Dean.

00:52:43.000 And I think the fight was, honest for me, Dean was a monster, but it wasn't a good fight.

00:52:49.000 There was not much happening on the fight.

00:52:50.000 It was mostly defense and stall, right.

00:52:54.000 And I felt the difference.

00:52:56.000 I was so light.

00:52:57.000 And I did not train with anybody heavy because I was fighting on the 170. I was just training with people that weight class and lower to get the speed to be ready for those guys.

00:53:07.000 Then here we are, a week and a half, I don't think I was feeling ready for fighting somebody this big.

00:53:13.000 My strategy, I had no strategy back then.

00:53:15.000 I was like, okay, let's try to move.

00:53:18.000 But he was very smart, not moving much.

00:53:20.000 I have evidence to be worried about him grabbing a hold of my foot.

00:53:25.000 And I think it was 20 minutes, not much happened on the fight.

00:53:29.000 And for me, I was frustrated not to be ready for a fight like that.

00:53:35.000 Because I was training to fight in the lower class, I was so ready.

00:53:39.000 And I regret not doing that.

00:53:41.000 It would be amazing.

00:53:43.000 But for another reason, I ended up moving up and no problem.

00:53:46.000 Well, when you did do Abu Dhabi the first time, I think it was a wake-up call for a lot of people that, you know, because of, you know, being born with no fingers in your hand and your approach to jiu-jitsu being so overhook and underhook-powered, you know, you transitioned so smoothly into no gi, whereas a lot of guys from your era, they would go and transition into no gi, and they're missing so many tools because they're so used to grabbing the gi.

00:54:16.000 You know, I remember when I got a call to go in 99, and they said the rules would be 10 minutes, 5 minutes, first 5, nothing counts.

00:54:26.000 Right.

00:54:27.000 Then after 5, whatever the rules were, I don't even know today what the rules were anyways, what counts or not counts.

00:54:35.000 But then I realized, man, the first 5 minutes does not count.

00:54:39.000 Let's go.

00:54:40.000 Right.

00:54:41.000 So if people don't know what we're saying here, Abu Dhabi is a very strange rule set.

00:54:44.000 So for the 10-minute round, the first five minutes of it, there's no points.

00:54:48.000 It doesn't matter what happens.

00:54:49.000 If someone takes you back, if you get mounted, you get into a triangle, but you escape, there's no points.

00:54:55.000 And I just go, bring the guy to the ground, pull the guard right away, and let's go.

00:55:00.000 Right.

00:55:01.000 And I think it was a surprise for a lot of people because right from the bat, I keep going all the way.

00:55:06.000 And again, with the transition that for me, I have no transition, it's the same gear, no gear.

00:55:12.000 Right.

00:55:13.000 And I feel at home.

00:55:14.000 Yes.

00:55:15.000 Okay, that's what I do every day.

00:55:16.000 Right.

00:55:17.000 And I felt a lot of guys not sure how to behave.

00:55:20.000 Mm-hmm.

00:55:20.000 But on my mind, the first five minutes, nothing counts.

00:55:23.000 It doesn't matter if he mounts me, take my back, or do anything.

00:55:27.000 Nothing.

00:55:27.000 Because realistically, the whole idea is to make people actually go after each other.

00:55:31.000 Right.

00:55:32.000 But when I get there, I see people waiting, standing five minutes, walking around.

00:55:36.000 Waiting for the five minutes to be up.

00:55:37.000 Waiting for the five minutes to be up.

00:55:39.000 So they get a takedown and then win on one point.

00:55:41.000 This is the opposite of what Jiu-Jitsu is.

00:55:43.000 Yeah.

00:55:43.000 And I said, hell no.

00:55:45.000 Let's go to the ground and see if he's better grappling than me.

00:55:48.000 Good.

00:55:48.000 If he's not, good.

00:55:50.000 But it was a wake-up call for a lot of people because they got to see you.

00:55:53.000 Who did you fight in that first year?

00:55:55.000 You fought Sakurai, right?

00:55:56.000 Yeah, I fought...

00:55:57.000 Who was a big-time MMA fighter at the time.

00:56:00.000 Sakurai, Kauno, I think they were well-known in the MMA world over there.

00:56:05.000 Also known as being really good grapplers, so it was very eye-opening for people to see you run through them.

00:56:10.000 If I'm not wrong, it was the first loss for Sakurai.

00:56:13.000 His first loss.

00:56:15.000 It was fine.

00:56:16.000 I think for me, it's my world.

00:56:19.000 Let's see if you're a better grappler.

00:56:20.000 Good.

00:56:21.000 If you're not, there we go.

00:56:23.000 Good for me.

00:56:24.000 It was fun.

00:56:26.000 I think it was very good for me to all the ADCC. I was able to be among the best three guys.

00:56:34.000 For me, it was a great accomplishment being able to stay up on the top of the game and Fighting the lighter guys, the heavier guys.

00:56:44.000 I was in special no-gi, which was something that it takes for a lot of people some kind of adjustment.

00:56:52.000 Because they're born in the gi world, basing their game on the gi, and they have actually some hard time to...

00:57:02.000 And a lot of them even gave up.

00:57:04.000 It's like, oh, forget it.

00:57:05.000 Now, in the early days of jiu-jitsu, there was a lot of no-gi guys on the luto-livre side, right?

00:57:12.000 For people who don't understand, there's a big rivalry in Rio between jiu-jitsu and luto-livre.

00:57:21.000 A lot of times you have people that come to our school and they don't fit in.

00:57:28.000 And they walk away.

00:57:31.000 And if I understood back in those days, those guys were some of these people that did not fit into the jiu-jitsu schools and they end up creating their own no-gi school.

00:57:42.000 Mm-hmm.

00:57:43.000 But you got to understand that in the 80s, our generation, in Rio de Janeiro summertime, man, it's 110, 115, extremely humid.

00:57:52.000 And we did a lot of trainings.

00:57:54.000 We trained the gi, and after the gi session, take the top of the gi out, and here we go.

00:58:00.000 We trained no gi.

00:58:02.000 Since we're white belts, we've been doing that.

00:58:06.000 Because the intent were learning how to get out of a headlock, how to be on the bottom, somebody trying to slap you, what do you do?

00:58:13.000 And that was our training that generation.

00:58:16.000 That's why almost everyone from the 80s is still up-to-date teaching and making a great school.

00:58:25.000 All that generation still, the longevity of them doing jiu-jitsu is still out there.

00:58:31.000 A lot of guys that I see now, especially with the social media, they're all teaching, they're all doing very well.

00:58:37.000 A lot of them are too big.

00:58:40.000 Some of them are still in good shape and teaching.

00:58:44.000 But that generation, I think, for me, was a gold generation because he's still out there.

00:58:49.000 And the people that come from that generation, their students, they develop such a good jiu-jitsu roots.

00:58:57.000 Is there still lute or liver anywhere?

00:58:59.000 I think they still have there.

00:59:01.000 But it's not a rivalry anymore, right?

00:59:03.000 No, I don't think today passed that time.

00:59:06.000 And I think that the rivalry was a need for our generation to establish Jiu Jitsu as a very effective art.

00:59:15.000 And I think some of the MMA events that happened was the fight should be happening on the streets.

00:59:21.000 Then we're able to bring that into an arena.

00:59:24.000 This way only the two guys will be fighting.

00:59:27.000 Not innocent people get hurt on the streets.

00:59:29.000 And I think what people don't realize is a lot of those fights could be happening right on a nightclub or some people even get killed.

00:59:37.000 No, let's bring that fight into the arena.

00:59:40.000 Only you two guys, nobody else is going to get hurt.

00:59:43.000 And that's why a lot of those events happen.

00:59:45.000 No money, no prize money, nothing.

00:59:48.000 Just for pride.

00:59:49.000 There's some videos of some of them that still exist.

00:59:52.000 Just for pride.

00:59:54.000 There's no money involved.

00:59:55.000 Who did Hickson fight on the beach?

00:59:56.000 Who was that?

00:59:58.000 Hickson fight Hugo Duarte.

01:00:00.000 That's right.

01:00:00.000 Hugo Duarte went on to fight in pride.

01:00:02.000 He fought Tank Abbott, right?

01:00:03.000 Man.

01:00:04.000 He fought some different people in MMA. I remember that day.

01:00:07.000 It was so funny because you have a point on the beach in Rio that is...

01:00:13.000 It's where most of the jiu-jitsu, where the pretty girls were.

01:00:17.000 And all the guys who go in that session on the beach, very famous people, and then everybody go in that session.

01:00:24.000 And we keep hearing that Hugo Challenge Hickson, Hugo Challenge Hickson, Hugo Challenge Hickson.

01:00:28.000 Here it is right here.

01:00:29.000 There we go.

01:00:30.000 Smacked him in the face.

01:00:33.000 Hickson was like, no, he didn't say anything.

01:00:35.000 I'm right.

01:00:36.000 There's some walking right there in light shorts there.

01:00:40.000 My mission were Hickson look at me and say, hey, watch my back.

01:00:45.000 Where were you?

01:00:46.000 I'm the one, okay, I'm off the screen now.

01:00:49.000 Right on my left, you're going to see me standing there.

01:00:55.000 Oh, I'm right.

01:00:56.000 If I get up, I can show you.

01:00:58.000 So what year is this?

01:00:59.000 What year is this?

01:01:00.000 Man, sometime in the 80s.

01:01:02.000 And do you know who's filming that?

01:01:04.000 We have High and Gracie.

01:01:08.000 He was sitting on someone's shoulders with a camera.

01:01:11.000 Crazy to try to see.

01:01:13.000 Oh, no, man.

01:01:14.000 I was getting...

01:01:15.000 So many bodies.

01:01:16.000 It's nuts.

01:01:16.000 I was getting punched in the head on his back just because I was watching Hickson's.

01:01:21.000 But everybody didn't jump in.

01:01:23.000 No, no, no.

01:01:24.000 What we did was we made a circle, arms to arms.

01:01:30.000 And Hickson's the one with the green shorts, right?

01:01:32.000 Green stripes.

01:01:33.000 Yes, and he had long hair that day, which the guy grabbed his hair.

01:01:37.000 It doesn't look like his hair is that long.

01:01:38.000 Oh, no.

01:01:39.000 He's a ponytail there.

01:01:41.000 Really?

01:01:41.000 Yeah.

01:01:43.000 I knew he had a ponytail from a lot of...

01:01:45.000 Oh, see, now you see Hickson mounting him.

01:01:48.000 Oh no, he got tired of punching the guy.

01:01:51.000 We felt...

01:01:53.000 And so this is how it ended, him punching him?

01:01:55.000 Yeah, there we go.

01:01:56.000 And the guy tapped and, stop, please stop.

01:01:58.000 And he had a group of guys with him.

01:02:00.000 We want to make sure that nobody jumped on his back.

01:02:05.000 But the thing is, we have this, and don't get me wrong, I'm not telling people to go and do that, but in that time, in that generation, a lot of those fights that happened in the street was a need for jiu-jitsu to be established the way it should be.

01:02:21.000 And it was better than two guys fighting there, then that fight ended up in a bar, a nightclub, a gang fight, people shooting each other.

01:02:28.000 Right.

01:02:29.000 And I remember what Hickson said, we got together in our first original Gracie Bar High School there.

01:02:35.000 Some members of all the Jiu Jitsu schools said, look guys, Hickson is going to go there, going to make a circle.

01:02:42.000 Only him and the guy fight.

01:02:43.000 Nobody else fights.

01:02:44.000 You understand that?

01:02:45.000 Because if everybody fights, then somebody's going to get really hurt because you're not going to be able to control anything.

01:02:52.000 We just made a big circle.

01:02:54.000 We hold hands.

01:02:55.000 Regardless of what happens, we will not interfere.

01:02:58.000 It's Hickson and that guy and that's it.

01:03:00.000 But I want to make sure nobody jumps in.

01:03:03.000 Then I remember Hicks, hey, you got to watch my back.

01:03:05.000 And I go like, okay, you got to watch Zach.

01:03:08.000 Don't do nothing.

01:03:09.000 You got to watch my back.

01:03:10.000 And here we are.

01:03:11.000 I'm always behind him and getting punched, getting kicked from other people.

01:03:16.000 But the crazy thing was, that happened, and Hickson on his mind said, look, I'm going to go there, slap him on the face, and he's going to run.

01:03:23.000 Then we're like, okay.

01:03:25.000 He goes there, slap that guy, and the guy did not run.

01:03:27.000 Then we go, oh, shit.

01:03:29.000 Now, game on.

01:03:31.000 Then we hold each other, and I think it was...

01:03:35.000 This happened on Saturday.

01:03:38.000 Tuesday night, Hugo went to Hickson School with a lot of people there all carrying weapons.

01:03:46.000 Hickson wasn't there and they called.

01:03:48.000 He shows up in shorts and he quickly just slapped Hugo around.

01:03:54.000 Somebody called the police later on and they even shoot the ceiling, AR-15, whatever, just boom!

01:04:01.000 And they left, but then Hickson just smashed him quick because it was on the cement, not on the sand.

01:04:10.000 But that again happened in a way for us as a pride to prove the point.

01:04:15.000 Jiu Jitsu is the best style of martial arts.

01:04:18.000 We keep going strong.

01:04:20.000 And Hugo was a Lutalivre guy.

01:04:21.000 Hugo was a Lutalivre guy.

01:04:23.000 Very respected.

01:04:23.000 Real strong.

01:04:24.000 One of the best guys still today.

01:04:26.000 And they had a grappling style.

01:04:28.000 It just wasn't as comprehensive.

01:04:30.000 Back there, they were doing a lot of footlocks already.

01:04:33.000 Yeah.

01:04:33.000 They're the ones that are doing a lot of footlocks, a lot of heel hooks.

01:04:37.000 Yeah.

01:04:37.000 And they have some quality fighters among of them.

01:04:40.000 Definitely.

01:04:41.000 Eugenio Tadeo.

01:04:42.000 Eugenio Tadeo.

01:04:44.000 I end up fighting one of the guys from there and one of the Abu Dhabi's there.

01:04:48.000 But as the time goes by, I think people get older, can understand.

01:04:53.000 And I don't think today has any conflict or any...

01:04:57.000 Bad feelings.

01:04:58.000 And they must have adopted a lot of the jiu-jitsu techniques too.

01:05:01.000 Everything was jiu-jitsu.

01:05:02.000 You should take the gear out.

01:05:04.000 Right.

01:05:04.000 Today I'm training grappling.

01:05:07.000 Okay, what is the definition of grappling?

01:05:10.000 You're on the ground fighting, then it's jiu-jitsu.

01:05:13.000 What do you think about this new trend that you're seeing?

01:05:16.000 You saw it particularly coming out of John Donaher and Dean Lister with the leg locks.

01:05:22.000 Leg locks are so big in jiu-jitsu competition now.

01:05:26.000 When we learn Jiu Jitsu, and still today, we will not learn anything related to legs until we get our blue belt.

01:05:36.000 The main reason behind this were to be able to let you develop guard without concern anything.

01:05:44.000 Just learn how to move your hips and sweeps and hooks.

01:05:48.000 Foot lock is something very effective.

01:05:51.000 But if I show you right away, I might be stopping some of the evolution of your game or the other person that you train with that he can learn, which will make even better his footlock.

01:06:03.000 That's why we hold back until people get one year or two into jiu-jitsu to learn leg locks.

01:06:12.000 But today we have the no-gi, everybody's such in a hurry that a lot of no-gi schools, the first thing people want to learn, hey, I want to learn heel hook.

01:06:20.000 In jiu-jitsu with gi, I want to learn arm bar.

01:06:23.000 The no-gi wants to go straight to the leg, the gi people want to go straight to the arm.

01:06:27.000 But I think particularly because of the success of these leg lockers against high-level competition.

01:06:33.000 No, it's effective, it's amazing.

01:06:36.000 I think it's a portion of the game.

01:06:39.000 You know, and you will see the development of people that will have defending that, which also will force guys to pass also beyond the legs only.

01:06:50.000 But definitely, their work is very dangerous.

01:06:52.000 Let people wrap their legs around your leg, hook you there.

01:06:56.000 I mean, not everybody can get out of that.

01:06:59.000 And if you don't tap, you're going to get your knee ripped apart.

01:07:03.000 For sure.

01:07:04.000 And that's the real problem with leg locks is that so many guys wind up with pretty devastating knee injuries.

01:07:10.000 In the 80s, the decision not to have heel hooks in jiu-jitsu was for safety.

01:07:17.000 We do, we did practice, but the competition does not allow.

01:07:22.000 You gotta understand that in the 80s, if you have a knee problem, your career is over.

01:07:27.000 Right.

01:07:27.000 There's no surgery that really would fix it correctly.

01:07:30.000 Right.

01:07:30.000 Today is different.

01:07:32.000 Yeah.

01:07:33.000 You understand?

01:07:33.000 It's the evolution of the medical side make possible for you to put a brand new knee over there.

01:07:39.000 Yeah, but still to this day, meniscus tears and cartilage tears, those are still huge.

01:07:43.000 I mean, without stem cells, it's very, very difficult to fix those unless you get the meniscus.

01:07:48.000 Like, I had part of my meniscus removed in my left knee.

01:07:51.000 And then you see, I mean, you want to train for longevity.

01:07:55.000 And you got to understand, too, is I think some of those things should be kind of almost creating a pro league into the jiu-jitsu world.

01:08:05.000 Because a lot of people, they get hurt before even they learn what jiu-jitsu is.

01:08:11.000 That's why my only concern is the danger of...

01:08:14.000 All those heel hooks, leg locks.

01:08:17.000 Because if you get somebody who knows, he might tap or he might roll to the right side.

01:08:23.000 Even though a lot of guys still get hurt.

01:08:26.000 But if you hold somebody who doesn't have much experience in one of those traps...

01:08:31.000 It's for sure.

01:08:32.000 Injury.

01:08:32.000 They roll the wrong way and rip it apart themselves.

01:08:35.000 Even if you don't squeeze, it's because they don't know what to do.

01:08:39.000 Right.

01:08:39.000 Yeah.

01:08:39.000 And that's my view of as an instructor today on my school.

01:08:44.000 You're not ready for legs yet.

01:08:46.000 Right.

01:08:46.000 Oh, I go to the no-get.

01:08:48.000 Don't go to the no-get tournament yet.

01:08:50.000 You have to learn first.

01:08:51.000 You understand?

01:08:52.000 For your own safety.

01:08:54.000 Right.

01:08:55.000 And also I want them to develop guard.

01:08:57.000 Because when we get tired, we pull guard.

01:09:00.000 When you get tired, you lie down to sleep.

01:09:02.000 You don't sleep standing.

01:09:04.000 You sleep when you lie down and jiu-jitsu is the same thing.

01:09:07.000 You get tired, you're going to pull guard.

01:09:10.000 And that's one of the ways I see some of my students in the tournament.

01:09:12.000 They get tired.

01:09:14.000 He's a top guy.

01:09:15.000 Suddenly he starts pulling guard.

01:09:17.000 He's tired.

01:09:20.000 And that's why you have to have a good guard.

01:09:22.000 Just to survive and rest to be able to continue.

01:09:26.000 Were you surprised though that this no-gi leg lock game started taking off the way it did?

01:09:32.000 I think because of the success, we have so many guys doing extremely well, and some of the guys that come from the no-gi originally doing so well, now some of the guys that come from the gi world doing no-gi, they've been finding some challenges to adjust to that leg.

01:09:51.000 I think, in a way, you have two ways that simplify, because if you get somebody in a foot lock or leg lock, There we go.

01:09:59.000 And at the same time, you complicate because you see a lot of scramble now and a lot of injuries.

01:10:05.000 Yeah.

01:10:06.000 Because every day, I understand, people don't want to tap, then it's a position that something's going to get hurt.

01:10:12.000 Yeah.

01:10:14.000 But it's the development and the evolution of the grappling world.

01:10:20.000 And I think it's amazing.

01:10:22.000 Sooner or later, somebody's going to find ways to protect better and better and better and better that will force people to move on.

01:10:29.000 Well, you've seen that I think now with a lot of the leg lock guys against each other, they're kind of stalemate.

01:10:34.000 And you see them winning by rear naked choke or arm bar again.

01:10:38.000 They're not using their leg locks against each other.

01:10:41.000 Right.

01:10:41.000 They realize like, man, he knows as much as I do.

01:10:44.000 Now I need more than that.

01:10:45.000 Yeah.

01:10:46.000 They're using them to sweep or they're using them to set up other things.

01:10:49.000 They're trying to exploit other holes.

01:10:51.000 Like maybe they concentrate too much on leg locks so then they're open to arm bars or chokes.

01:10:56.000 I remember when I learned in the beginning we have foot lock as the last resource.

01:11:04.000 Let's see, I'm fighting that guy and I'm not able to submit him.

01:11:08.000 I'm going to footlock him.

01:11:10.000 That's how we used to have in the 80s.

01:11:12.000 Yeah, it was like a Hail Mary.

01:11:13.000 Footlock is, okay, this is my deadly weapon.

01:11:15.000 If everything that I do is not working, I'm going to footlock him.

01:11:19.000 Today is the opposite.

01:11:21.000 My first shot is footlock him all the way.

01:11:23.000 If it's not working, I'm going to choke him.

01:11:25.000 Yeah.

01:11:25.000 You see so few footlocks in MMA. It's interesting, right?

01:11:28.000 You see so few figure four footlocks.

01:11:32.000 Because the danger is also for you to get hit.

01:11:34.000 Right.

01:11:35.000 Yeah.

01:11:36.000 Sometimes when you do the footlock, your face, your arms are both around the leg.

01:11:41.000 You can get a knock.

01:11:43.000 You're not defending yourself.

01:11:44.000 Exactly.

01:11:44.000 What do you think about combat jiu-jitsu, Eddie's new invention?

01:11:48.000 Man, I think it's a way for people to step up to reality and understand and some guys make a decision.

01:11:55.000 Do you know what?

01:11:55.000 I might be able to go and do MMA too.

01:11:58.000 But that's the real world.

01:12:00.000 Yeah.

01:12:00.000 If you fight somebody, that's exactly what's going to happen.

01:12:03.000 Right.

01:12:04.000 And making people more aware of, okay, my jiu-jitsu for jiu-jitsu sport only is not going to work that well for this kind of a jiu-jitsu.

01:12:15.000 I have now to be aware more of my real fights.

01:12:19.000 Yeah.

01:12:19.000 And I think it will help more the evolution of...

01:12:23.000 That sport of jiu-jitsu to...

01:12:25.000 Transition to MMA. For people who don't know what combat jiu-jitsu is, Eddie Bravo invented a way where you do jiu-jitsu with slaps on the ground.

01:12:33.000 And you would think it's just, oh, it's just a slap.

01:12:36.000 But no, a palm strike, really.

01:12:38.000 I mean, you really can hit someone very, very hard with your palms.

01:12:40.000 I mean, I can do that with my hand on a table, and it doesn't hurt my hand at all.

01:12:44.000 But if I did that with my knuckles, it would really hurt.

01:12:47.000 So they can smack the shit out of each other.

01:12:49.000 Right.

01:12:50.000 We used to do that after.

01:12:51.000 We trained jiu-jitsu.

01:12:52.000 It's called in Portuguese taparia.

01:12:55.000 It's like slap each other after the train.

01:12:58.000 No shirts, yes.

01:13:00.000 And we used to train like that in Brazil.

01:13:02.000 Oh, really?

01:13:03.000 Yes, to be ready.

01:13:04.000 Again, we have no tournaments.

01:13:05.000 Right.

01:13:06.000 I mean, after the train, let's see.

01:13:08.000 And we stand in front of each other and open hands and there we go.

01:13:12.000 Slap each other.

01:13:13.000 Make sure you don't get slapped on the face.

01:13:15.000 But on the end of the train, you have marks all over your body.

01:13:19.000 And you still shake your brother's hand.

01:13:21.000 They love you, but you're all over a mess.

01:13:24.000 Do you still lift weights?

01:13:27.000 Yes, I do.

01:13:28.000 How often do you do that?

01:13:29.000 Two days a week.

01:13:30.000 Two days a week.

01:13:31.000 But I like to run a lot.

01:13:33.000 I like outdoors.

01:13:34.000 I run three or four days a week.

01:13:37.000 What, you're running trails?

01:13:39.000 I did try.

01:13:40.000 Now it's too hot.

01:13:41.000 I don't know.

01:13:41.000 Unless you go early in the morning, it's pretty.

01:13:43.000 Yeah, I go like 8 in the morning.

01:13:45.000 It's very hot right now.

01:13:45.000 It was hot this morning when I went.

01:13:48.000 It's very hot right now, but I like it.

01:13:50.000 I think I want to challenge my body always.

01:13:54.000 To bring the best off, the resistance.

01:13:56.000 Because I think I don't like to go and run the same street over and over again.

01:14:02.000 Somehow your body already gets just to that.

01:14:05.000 I'm always trying to find different trails.

01:14:10.000 This way is like in a fight.

01:14:12.000 Change is up and down the whole time.

01:14:14.000 Yeah.

01:14:15.000 But it's something to...

01:14:17.000 The jiu-jitsu is my excuse to do all of this.

01:14:21.000 Right.

01:14:21.000 I want to go and do better.

01:14:22.000 All my students are getting harder.

01:14:25.000 Of course.

01:14:25.000 How can I switch that to make it not that hard?

01:14:28.000 Right.

01:14:28.000 I got to do a little bit more than I was doing.

01:14:31.000 Now, how do you mix up your weightlifting training with your jiu-jitsu training?

01:14:35.000 Do you do it in the morning and then train at night, or do you do it after you train?

01:14:41.000 Right now, I'm doing before teaching to the training.

01:14:45.000 My intention is when I show up to the academy, I'm already tired physically.

01:14:50.000 So that when you do train, you can be relaxed and just...

01:14:54.000 This way, my challenge is because I'm physically tired...

01:14:59.000 I make the level of my students higher because they have a lot of energy and they're good too.

01:15:04.000 It makes more challenge for myself to train with them because I don't have, okay, my energy now.

01:15:11.000 I have to purely use the techniques, the jiu-jitsu.

01:15:14.000 The techniques must be on time.

01:15:17.000 I intentionally do that.

01:15:18.000 They're tired to make a good training for me.

01:15:22.000 And that's what I've been doing now.

01:15:24.000 I show up and they don't know.

01:15:25.000 And hey, let's go and train.

01:15:27.000 Then I can tell that, man, I should rest before training this guy today.

01:15:33.000 I don't know if he's getting that good.

01:15:35.000 I'm too tired.

01:15:35.000 Everything's at the same time.

01:15:37.000 Next week I'm not going to do that again.

01:15:39.000 So when you do it twice a week, how do you mix it up?

01:15:42.000 What kind of training are you doing?

01:15:44.000 I work one day legs and lower upper body and the other day upper body.

01:15:49.000 That's it?

01:15:50.000 Always, yes.

01:15:51.000 So it's just to make you stronger?

01:15:53.000 Just to keep the joints healthy and evidently feel the muscles.

01:15:57.000 I think it's important for...

01:15:59.000 It's like prevent injuries.

01:16:01.000 Yes.

01:16:01.000 That's the main thing.

01:16:02.000 Yeah.

01:16:03.000 And I've been using a lot the Iron Neck stuff.

01:16:05.000 Remember the guy from the Iron Neck?

01:16:07.000 He sent it to me, that equipment.

01:16:08.000 Iron Neck, yeah.

01:16:08.000 I'm using that.

01:16:09.000 It's amazing.

01:16:10.000 I've been using that.

01:16:11.000 Yeah.

01:16:12.000 It is.

01:16:12.000 I recommend any Jiu Jitsu guys.

01:16:14.000 Oh, for Jiu Jitsu guys, it's a must do.

01:16:15.000 Go and get it, man.

01:16:16.000 Keep your neck strong.

01:16:17.000 It's incredible.

01:16:18.000 Well, you said something to me once.

01:16:20.000 I'll never forget it.

01:16:21.000 I go, never trust your neck.

01:16:22.000 I still do not.

01:16:24.000 We fall out.

01:16:25.000 They're strong.

01:16:27.000 Once you get to the neck, you have to be very aware.

01:16:31.000 Start seeing little flashes.

01:16:33.000 After that, it gets dark.

01:16:35.000 Oh, yeah.

01:16:36.000 There you go.

01:16:37.000 Oh, I'm dizzy.

01:16:38.000 No, you're about to go out, my friend.

01:16:41.000 Don't trust your neck.

01:16:43.000 Never trust your neck, yeah.

01:16:45.000 But at least you could train it safely now with the iron neck.

01:16:49.000 There was always a bunch of different ways where people trained that were questionable.

01:16:53.000 There's a lot of people that don't believe in neck bridges.

01:16:55.000 They say it's actually kind of dangerous.

01:16:56.000 Man, our neck is, if you see the spine, it's so sensitive.

01:17:01.000 You've got to be careful when you work your neck.

01:17:03.000 In Jiu Jitsu, we don't use our head on the ground to base our body weight.

01:17:08.000 Never.

01:17:08.000 And I think that our neck is again is the maintenance of having your neck all well around because that spinning thing that you do, man, you work every angle of your neck.

01:17:18.000 Yeah.

01:17:19.000 And I do a very simple exercise.

01:17:21.000 I have this.

01:17:22.000 I touch into a bar and go forward and turn sideways.

01:17:25.000 Very smooth movement.

01:17:27.000 Do you do the Ray Charles?

01:17:29.000 Or Stevie Wonder rather?

01:17:30.000 Very slow.

01:17:31.000 You have that bungee that keeps more or less tension.

01:17:34.000 Yes.

01:17:35.000 Yeah, turn it sideways.

01:17:37.000 I love that machine or that piece of training gear.

01:17:40.000 It was a great addition to all the exercise.

01:17:43.000 Thanks to the guys because it's really, really helpful.

01:17:46.000 Yeah, I recommend it to everybody.

01:17:48.000 And for fighters that get hit in the head, it's so important to have a strong neck to resist the impact of shots.

01:17:54.000 It's the same thing with the muscles around.

01:17:57.000 This way the muscles take the first hit.

01:18:00.000 Right.

01:18:00.000 Just like you're talking about building strength around your joints by lifting weights to protect your joints.

01:18:04.000 Exactly the same thing.

01:18:05.000 Exactly.

01:18:06.000 So, are you doing basic stuff like curls and dips and bench press?

01:18:10.000 Very basic.

01:18:11.000 Different than the time that you're training for competition, which is in heaven, a lot of explosions.

01:18:17.000 This way, just trying to maintain everything else I do in Jiu Jitsu.

01:18:21.000 Some days I train pushing more, some days I'm pushing less, some days I just train in defense, some days I train, okay, I gotta finish everybody today, or I gotta mount everybody today.

01:18:31.000 You kind of make your training a goal for your training.

01:18:36.000 This way you're always excited to do it.

01:18:38.000 Right.

01:18:38.000 You know, and not having the same thing every day.

01:18:41.000 You know, I select, okay, today I'm going to sweep everybody.

01:18:44.000 Then I pull guard and keep playing.

01:18:46.000 My goal is sweep.

01:18:47.000 And some guys are very hard to sweep.

01:18:49.000 Another day I just want to mount.

01:18:51.000 I can only finish people from the mount.

01:18:54.000 And I mean, you kind of make different goals.

01:18:57.000 And I think that keeps you...

01:18:59.000 And again, my students, Jiu-Jitsu is fun.

01:19:03.000 Come on.

01:19:03.000 Yeah, sure.

01:19:04.000 It's fun.

01:19:04.000 You never know what's going to happen.

01:19:06.000 Right.

01:19:07.000 It's always a challenge.

01:19:08.000 Your goal is like, oh, man.

01:19:09.000 Then you realize I should sleep two hours extra.

01:19:12.000 I'm tired now.

01:19:13.000 For sure.

01:19:14.000 If you really want to find out where your body's at, go train.

01:19:17.000 Oh man, why I'm so sore?

01:19:18.000 I don't know.

01:19:19.000 Jiu Jitsu will test you in every level.

01:19:22.000 Now what about nutrition?

01:19:25.000 I grew up...

01:19:26.000 Did you follow the Gracie diet?

01:19:29.000 I grew up doing the Gracie diet with my uncle Carlos.

01:19:33.000 Could you explain that?

01:19:34.000 Basically, man, the diet would be the food that you combine.

01:19:38.000 Right.

01:19:39.000 Some foods, when you make their combination, you're not going to get what you're expecting from the food.

01:19:44.000 And that's how we learn.

01:19:46.000 I eat a lot of fruits.

01:19:48.000 Lots.

01:19:49.000 I don't drink juices anywhere.

01:19:50.000 I make my own juice.

01:19:53.000 That's the only way you can have a proof that it's actually fresh and juicy.

01:19:59.000 Very rarely I eat meat.

01:20:03.000 Fish and chicken and turkey more often than red meat.

01:20:08.000 I don't remember last time.

01:20:10.000 It's been a while.

01:20:12.000 But it's basically fruits is my...

01:20:14.000 I love it.

01:20:16.000 Papaya in the morning, cream cheese and honey.

01:20:20.000 Late at night sometimes, watermelon juice and tapioca.

01:20:24.000 I don't know if people know what tapioca is.

01:20:26.000 Sure.

01:20:26.000 Yeah, tapioca pudding?

01:20:27.000 Yeah, not the pudding.

01:20:29.000 It looks like a tortilla.

01:20:30.000 You make that in a pan, and it's really healthy.

01:20:33.000 Making it in a pan?

01:20:35.000 Yeah, it's like a powder.

01:20:36.000 It's like a root, and they shred the root.

01:20:40.000 And you put it in a pan, and as the pan gets hit, it looks like a tortilla in the end.

01:20:46.000 Then you put a cream cheese, and it's a thousand times healthier than any kind of bread you eat in your life.

01:20:54.000 I mean, things that are good for your body.

01:20:57.000 But basically, fruits are my main thing.

01:21:01.000 Well, you're always burning off so much energy.

01:21:03.000 That's the other thing.

01:21:03.000 Jiu-Jitsu burns off so much energy.

01:21:06.000 And evidently, the lifestyle you have, you burn more than you eat, you're going to keep your weight full.

01:21:11.000 I weigh the same thing for the past 10 years, the same weight.

01:21:15.000 Go up two pounds, go down two pounds.

01:21:17.000 Go up three pounds, go down five pounds.

01:21:19.000 Do you take any supplements?

01:21:20.000 I take maca, turmeric, pounder, and mix in all those juices that I make.

01:21:28.000 I'm more like preventive things.

01:21:31.000 And evidently learn, sometimes I'm going to train harder tomorrow.

01:21:34.000 I'm going to eat some carbs today.

01:21:37.000 The carbs will become a lot of energy tomorrow, my training.

01:21:41.000 And you're basically little things that you learn.

01:21:43.000 But for me, the main thing is to stay healthy.

01:21:45.000 Right.

01:21:47.000 There we go.

01:21:47.000 I don't remember last time I was sick.

01:21:49.000 Really?

01:21:50.000 I don't remember last time.

01:21:51.000 Wow.

01:21:52.000 People have headaches.

01:21:53.000 Why do you have a headache?

01:21:54.000 You have many ways of having a headache.

01:21:56.000 You're not drinking enough water or eating too much sugar.

01:21:59.000 I mean, something that you're consuming right now gives you a headache.

01:22:03.000 And what about post-workout recovery?

01:22:05.000 Do you use sauna or ice bath or anything like that?

01:22:09.000 Man, the sauna is a must.

01:22:11.000 I mean, I love it.

01:22:13.000 I see you put a lot of things.

01:22:14.000 It's a must.

01:22:15.000 You eliminate so much and your body is always pure and clean.

01:22:19.000 I love my Epson South Jacuzzi.

01:22:23.000 Sit there for, I don't know, an hour and just forget about life.

01:22:26.000 Yeah.

01:22:28.000 Feels brand new after.

01:22:29.000 I mean, you have a lot of things that we should do to keep the longevity of us being able to do what we want to do.

01:22:37.000 And stay healthy.

01:22:39.000 It's the main thing.

01:22:40.000 Stay hiking.

01:22:41.000 Stay close to nature.

01:22:43.000 Breathe.

01:22:44.000 Trying to breathe good air.

01:22:45.000 It's pretty hard in L.A., but...

01:22:47.000 Yeah.

01:22:49.000 You go up in the mountains, man.

01:22:50.000 You feel like...

01:22:51.000 It's even on your mind.

01:22:53.000 You already changed the whole thing of...

01:22:57.000 And that's basically, stay healthy.

01:22:59.000 How can I teach or tell my students to do something if I'm not doing it?

01:23:03.000 Right.

01:23:04.000 It's like you go to the gym and have two different coaches, one that looks healthy and the one that is pretty big.

01:23:11.000 Which one are you going to pick?

01:23:12.000 Right.

01:23:13.000 The one that knows how to get the way he is.

01:23:15.000 Yeah, when you see guys that start letting themselves go and getting big and fat, it's very disappointing.

01:23:23.000 Yes, it is.

01:23:24.000 I give a hard time to a lot of people that I know, friends that let it go and say, man, it's not what you say, it's what you've been doing.

01:23:32.000 You say, oh, don't do this.

01:23:34.000 Then you're doing.

01:23:35.000 I mean, what kind of a...

01:23:37.000 It's more about an example.

01:23:38.000 Yeah.

01:23:39.000 People get tired.

01:23:40.000 They get lazy.

01:23:42.000 Yeah.

01:23:42.000 Yes, but man, you chose the wrong job to be lazy.

01:23:46.000 Yeah.

01:23:47.000 You know?

01:23:47.000 You're a martial artist.

01:23:49.000 You can't be lazy as a martial artist.

01:23:51.000 Right.

01:23:52.000 You know?

01:23:52.000 Do something.

01:23:53.000 Sit at a desk and don't do nothing then.

01:23:55.000 I understand.

01:23:56.000 But you're doing a martial arts and you get lazy?

01:23:59.000 No, you can't.

01:24:00.000 You become, in a way, an example for a lot of people.

01:24:04.000 And that's why you make people do what you do.

01:24:09.000 Yeah, it's not an option.

01:24:10.000 It's not an option to become lazy.

01:24:11.000 Not at all.

01:24:12.000 And as soon as I see someone who is doing that, who becomes lazy and becomes fat, it's unfortunate.

01:24:19.000 It's unfortunate.

01:24:20.000 You're making a mistake.

01:24:21.000 I try to understand, and sometimes I don't.

01:24:25.000 I say, look, man, again, you chose the wrong line of work.

01:24:30.000 You're telling me that you don't like what you do, because if you like what you do, you're not going to be the way you are right now.

01:24:37.000 Jiu-Jitsu is not working for you now, which should be working right now more than ever.

01:24:42.000 Well, that's one of the great things about you, my brother.

01:24:44.000 You've always been a great example.

01:24:46.000 And you've always been a person who leads by example.

01:24:50.000 By the way, the things you say, but more importantly, by the things you do.

01:24:54.000 For sure.

01:24:55.000 And I know that.

01:24:56.000 I think we learned through the years that what you say and what you do will affect a lot of people out there.

01:25:04.000 And especially now in the social media, I get so many great inputs for people that I have no idea who they are.

01:25:11.000 Like, oh, thank you for this.

01:25:12.000 Thank you for that.

01:25:13.000 Thank you for you to put a good quote out there.

01:25:15.000 I think those little things have an impact always in a lot of people.

01:25:21.000 And I can't forget that.

01:25:24.000 Amen.

01:25:25.000 I love what I do.

01:25:26.000 I never had a job.

01:25:29.000 Do you have a work?

01:25:30.000 I said, no.

01:25:30.000 I try Jiu-Jitsu.

01:25:31.000 And the amazing things.

01:25:33.000 They give me money to do Jiu-Jitsu.

01:25:36.000 They pay me to do this.

01:25:38.000 I can't be...

01:25:38.000 Thank you, Dan.

01:25:40.000 I never had it.

01:25:41.000 You have a great life.

01:25:43.000 You make friends every day.

01:25:46.000 You make friends every day.

01:25:48.000 And you kind of are able now to help people just with something that you say.

01:25:56.000 Sometimes I have higher belt students or even lower belt students that show up for training.

01:26:02.000 And I learned that with one story my uncle told me.

01:26:07.000 Uncle Carlos, he used to live there, and back in those days, he observed a lot of things.

01:26:16.000 It was a time in Brazil, we have a lot of cockfighters, and he has his regular rooster.

01:26:24.000 Then he said, man, I'm going to make money if it's his rooster.

01:26:28.000 I said, okay.

01:26:30.000 I'm going to see how long the rooster actually fights.

01:26:35.000 And when I noticed the time, how long he fights, every time he's fighting, I'm going to get the real, the cockfighter, and start moving him out.

01:26:42.000 And the rooster thinks he's winning.

01:26:44.000 And he's been doing that for a while.

01:26:45.000 Then he realized the rooster can only stay in a fight for two minutes.

01:26:50.000 After two minutes, he runs.

01:26:53.000 Then he goes to the arena and challenges anybody there with his rooster, who's not made for a fight, to fight anyone there for one minute.

01:27:02.000 And they bet the money.

01:27:03.000 And for one minute, the rooster got beat up, but fought for one minute, did not run.

01:27:08.000 Then one minute, he got his rooster.

01:27:10.000 Hey, give me the money.

01:27:11.000 Let it fight.

01:27:12.000 He said, no.

01:27:12.000 I said, one minute.

01:27:14.000 The point was, I have guys that come to my school and they're not having a good day.

01:27:19.000 And I can tell that by looking to their face.

01:27:22.000 And I start training with them.

01:27:25.000 And I let them give me a hard time.

01:27:28.000 And I go like, man, what's wrong with you today?

01:27:30.000 You kicked my butt today.

01:27:32.000 And I can see the change that made in that person.

01:27:37.000 And I use that to train a lot of my students.

01:27:41.000 I'll give one example.

01:27:43.000 Our friend Eddie, before he fights Hoyler, when he called me in, he wasn't in the best of his game, and I know he could be amazing.

01:27:53.000 On the beginning, I prohibit anybody to give him a hard time or anything as he started building up.

01:27:59.000 Then towards the end, I said, man, kick his butt.

01:28:01.000 He was so good and confident after a few months.

01:28:06.000 Nobody could even get close to do nothing to him.

01:28:09.000 I said, man, you're ready.

01:28:10.000 You're ready for a fight.

01:28:12.000 But in the beginning, this was my way to work out his psychological, to build him up.

01:28:18.000 He wasn't in the best shape.

01:28:19.000 He wasn't training.

01:28:20.000 He said, no, you can't train with your students.

01:28:22.000 Everybody does what you do.

01:28:24.000 You're going to fight somebody who doesn't do what you do.

01:28:26.000 You got to train with people that do what the other guy do.

01:28:29.000 And here we are.

01:28:30.000 In three months, we made him a monster.

01:28:33.000 And he did what he did in his fight.

01:28:35.000 We're using the same idea of my uncle telling me a story to make you start believing.

01:28:42.000 And towards the end, I thought, man, get him.

01:28:45.000 Nobody could get even close.

01:28:47.000 Isn't it funny how much of it is psychological?

01:28:49.000 Because when you are tired, but you start doing well, all of a sudden you have energy.

01:28:54.000 That's all in your mind.

01:28:55.000 And one of the things, I'm trying to remember who said that.

01:29:00.000 We grew up in the fighting world, I was seeing samurai bushido in the war, and we have a lot of good quotes.

01:29:09.000 And one of them was, whenever you think you're tired, your opponent is dead.

01:29:15.000 I always remember that.

01:29:16.000 Until today.

01:29:17.000 I remember as a yellow belt.

01:29:19.000 One of my cousins told me that, man, when you're tired, your opponent is dead.

01:29:24.000 That keeps you going.

01:29:25.000 Your opponent is dead?

01:29:27.000 He's dead.

01:29:27.000 He's way more tired than you are.

01:29:29.000 That's the time you have to push.

01:29:31.000 Instead of trying to conserve, no, now push.

01:29:34.000 But what if you're tired and he's not?

01:29:36.000 This is the mindset.

01:29:38.000 Then Jiu-Jitsu gives you the tools, but makes you never give up.

01:29:43.000 You can be tired.

01:29:44.000 We're all going to be tired in a fight.

01:29:46.000 That's for sure.

01:29:47.000 But you're not going to give up.

01:29:48.000 How important do you think it is to do additional conditioning other than just taking classes?

01:29:55.000 If you want to go and participate in an event, in a tournament, training the jiu-jitsu training today, you're going to do well.

01:30:04.000 If you want to win the tournament, then you have to do more.

01:30:08.000 You have to work out, you have to do your physical, because that always involves with your mindset.

01:30:14.000 A lot of people, they get nervous because they feel they're not ready.

01:30:18.000 Do you ever think that you'll have a jiu-jitsu school that also has weights and cardio equipment and things like that, and maybe even classes to help supplement jiu-jitsu training?

01:30:31.000 I think it'll be a dream school, for sure, because a lot of people do not realize how beneficial that would be for them in general.

01:30:40.000 Right.

01:30:40.000 Not only for Jiu-Jitsu, because I keep telling people, and I always put them in their minds for them to get better and believe in themselves.

01:30:50.000 But when they do, those things are challenging themselves.

01:30:53.000 If you challenge yourself every day, you're going to bring the best of you every day.

01:30:57.000 Hmm.

01:30:58.000 If you do the same thing every day, you already know what's going to happen.

01:31:01.000 Whenever you challenge yourself, you're going to bring something better and better.

01:31:04.000 You're going to grow more inside.

01:31:06.000 You're going to start believing so much more the capability that you have.

01:31:10.000 That would be a dream school.

01:31:11.000 I don't know any school that has like a real comprehensive gym, strength and conditioning gym attached to a jiu-jitsu school.

01:31:17.000 Jiu-jitsu school, I don't know any.

01:31:18.000 Martial art, MMA places do.

01:31:20.000 MMA places, yeah, like all those big gyms.

01:31:23.000 Yeah.

01:31:24.000 But a lot of things, like sometimes someone may ask me and my thought about was this.

01:31:31.000 When you go to MMA gym, and I think today they're specific for MMA. I mean, they train enough grappling for MMA. They train enough punching for MMA, which is amazing.

01:31:43.000 But it's like you're going to a hospital.

01:31:46.000 You go there, you have a general doctor.

01:31:49.000 But if you need a specialist, you've got to go to the school that is specific for that purpose, striking or jiu-jitsu.

01:31:58.000 Even though now the biggest gyms out there have the best instructors of anything all together.

01:32:06.000 Right.

01:32:06.000 Like American Top Team, right?

01:32:08.000 They have, yeah.

01:32:09.000 Ricardo Laborio.

01:32:10.000 I mean, they have the best grappling coach you could have, the wrestling, but not all the schools are like that.

01:32:16.000 Right.

01:32:16.000 That's a rare one.

01:32:18.000 It's very challenging because of sometimes the ego among the instructors.

01:32:22.000 Sure.

01:32:23.000 Who the fighter is going to listen to.

01:32:25.000 Right.

01:32:25.000 You get a lot of jiu-jitsu fighters that start training with a striking coach and the striking coach has them convinced that they're a striker.

01:32:32.000 And I think the biggest challenge for the MMA guys is when is the right time for me to transition from standing to the ground or the ground to standing.

01:32:41.000 And the ones that find the right momentum to do that, they're the ones that are winning.

01:32:48.000 And I know my Uncle Hilio said, man, sooner or later they're going to get your number.

01:32:52.000 I mean, that's the MMA world.

01:32:55.000 Very hard for you to retire without...

01:32:57.000 And when is the right time to retire?

01:33:00.000 Right.

01:33:01.000 Yeah, it's hard to figure out for many, many fighters.

01:33:04.000 No, it's a lot of the things.

01:33:06.000 Maybe money issues, or maybe I don't want to give up being famous, or maybe it's a lot of things involved.

01:33:13.000 I should retire like now.

01:33:15.000 Well, we've been around for a long time, and we've seen a lot of fighters fight long past where they should have retired.

01:33:22.000 That's when they can get hurt really bad.

01:33:24.000 Yeah.

01:33:25.000 And you see, that's when the injury can be resting, be with him for a very long time.

01:33:32.000 Yeah.

01:33:32.000 Does it bother you when you see that?

01:33:34.000 Particularly like older fighters getting knocked out.

01:33:38.000 Man, for me, I think the people surrounding them should be saying, hey, enough is enough.

01:33:45.000 I hope all of them and I think the way it is today is everyone is able to make good for their lives with enough money that they can live well.

01:33:55.000 Not all of them, unfortunately.

01:33:56.000 That's why they have to keep fighting as much as they can.

01:34:00.000 But it's a very challenge.

01:34:02.000 I think we have to understand it's a short career.

01:34:04.000 You don't have 20 years fighting.

01:34:06.000 You have to understand my body can't take this much.

01:34:10.000 But after a certain point, man, then you can get hurt really bad.

01:34:15.000 Just so everybody knows, on the wall of the studio right there, there's John Jacque Machado's coral belt right there on that wall in the studio permanently.

01:34:24.000 That's really cool, man.

01:34:26.000 You gave me that.

01:34:26.000 It was an honor.

01:34:28.000 I only made 10 of those.

01:34:30.000 One of them is right there, my brother.

01:34:31.000 I know.

01:34:32.000 I've got to be for a special person.

01:34:34.000 Joe Hogan, man.

01:34:36.000 It's awesome.

01:34:37.000 Well, thank you for everything, man.

01:34:39.000 Thank you for teaching me jiu-jitsu.

01:34:41.000 Thank you for being such a great leader and a role model.

01:34:44.000 And just thanks for being here, brother.

01:34:46.000 I really appreciate you.

01:34:47.000 Super, Joe.

01:34:48.000 Thank you for having me here.

01:34:49.000 And now I can...

01:34:50.000 People don't keep asking me, hey, why don't you go to see Joe Hogan?

01:34:54.000 I see Joe Hogan all the time, and I think it was a great pleasure for me to be here.

01:34:58.000 It's amazing to see the transformation, and I think in the mixed martial arts world, in the martial arts world, how important was to have someone like you that knows what you're talking about?

01:35:11.000 Because I remember the first few days of UFC. Please, UFC, understand Joe Hogan was much bigger than UFC, and I think UFC reached out to a point like that to have someone like you pushing, and you have so many people that love you, that follow you, And UFC is your voice of UFC, you know?

01:35:32.000 And don't get me wrong, those guys out there, but when you're talking and you have all those main fights there, it's very different than when you see the other guys talking about.

01:35:41.000 Because I know the involvement that you have in the martial arts and the knowledge that you have.

01:35:46.000 And it's really good to be here, I mean, in all these past 20 years, see the amazing journey to follow you, see you're getting bigger and bigger, and to be able to see that from the beginning is amazing.

01:35:58.000 Well, thank you, and I promise I'll be training soon.

01:36:01.000 As soon as this knee feels better, I'll be back.

01:36:04.000 And in Tarzana, that's your main school.

01:36:06.000 The Malibu one, unfortunately, was affected by the fires.

01:36:09.000 But Jay is now teaching somewhere else in the valley, right?

01:36:12.000 Where is he teaching?

01:36:12.000 I think we have a lot of affiliation schools around here.

01:36:15.000 We have one in Chatsward.

01:36:17.000 We have one in Simivari.

01:36:18.000 That's where Jay is, right?

01:36:19.000 Jay Bezos?

01:36:19.000 He goes there on Fridays.

01:36:22.000 Yeah, it's the Kings.

01:36:24.000 Kings Combat Sports.

01:36:25.000 Yes.

01:36:26.000 Yeah.

01:36:26.000 And your gym, the Machado Jiu-Jitsu Academy, is in Tarzana, and you can find it online.

01:36:34.000 Yeah, we've been there for 27 years, and now we're probably going to be moving around the area for something that we need more space.

01:36:42.000 Unfortunately and fortunate at the same time.

01:36:45.000 Fortunately.

01:36:46.000 Blowing up.

01:36:47.000 Wait until after this podcast.

01:36:49.000 We see, yeah.

01:36:50.000 That's going to be even more fucking crazy.

01:36:52.000 Anything that comes out of your hoagie gets a lot bigger, for sure.

01:36:55.000 Well, listen, you have the best fucking school I've ever been to in the world.

01:36:58.000 And it's a beautiful environment.

01:37:00.000 It's a brotherhood and a sisterhood.

01:37:02.000 And that's one of the best things about it is how much it is like family over there.

01:37:06.000 It's like everyone who trains with you has the utmost respect for you.

01:37:10.000 And the way you are and the way you treat people, it rubs off on everybody.

01:37:15.000 You really genuinely do make people a better person.

01:37:18.000 Thank you, sir.

01:37:19.000 And I'll see you back soon on the mat.

01:37:21.000 All right, my brother.

01:37:22.000 Thank you.

01:37:22.000 Thank you, Joe.

The Joe Rogan Experience - January 19, 2011

JRE MMA Show #73 with Jean Jacques Machado

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