The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #78 with Andre Ward

00:00:01.000 Two, one, boom. 0.97

00:00:03.000 Andre Ward, ladies and gentlemen.

00:00:05.000 How are you, brother?

00:00:05.000 I'm good, man.

00:00:06.000 How you doing?

00:00:06.000 Thank you very much for doing this, man.

00:00:08.000 I'm a big fan, so I was very excited to do this.

00:00:09.000 Appreciate you having me.

00:00:10.000 You did it.

00:00:11.000 In terms of, like, if you're a young fighter and you've got aspirations, what do you want to do?

00:00:16.000 You want to be an Olympic gold medalist, you want to win multiple world titles, two-division world champion, and you retired undefeated.

00:00:24.000 You're like a unicorn, man.

00:00:27.000 You're a rare dude.

00:00:28.000 Because you retired at 35, right?

00:00:31.000 33. 33?

00:00:32.000 Yeah.

00:00:32.000 That's crazy.

00:00:33.000 Like, you're in the peak of your athletic abilities, and you go, you know what?

00:00:38.000 I did enough.

00:00:39.000 I'm out.

00:00:40.000 Yeah.

00:00:42.000 I mean, it sounds all neat and buttoned up, but it wasn't that easy.

00:00:48.000 Like, I didn't know how things were going to go throughout the course of my career.

00:00:51.000 But for whatever reason, like, I always, even as a young kid, I'm talking 10 years old, like, I had this thought, like, you know, I don't want to end up like a lot of fighters end up.

00:01:01.000 Like, they seem to go high, really high, and then all of a sudden they come crashing down.

00:01:06.000 Like, they start well, but they don't end well.

00:01:09.000 That's what drew me to Roy Jones Jr. Country boy, had swag, and he'd always talk about himself in the third person.

00:01:16.000 He'd be like, man, you know, Roy Jones, I don't love a sport like that, man.

00:01:19.000 I'm going to get in and get out.

00:01:20.000 I'm just special at it, and I'm going to be fishing on my farm one day in Pensacola, Florida.

00:01:24.000 I was like, man, this dude is different.

00:01:26.000 Fighters don't talk like that.

00:01:27.000 So he was the first one that gave me the thought of getting in and getting out.

00:01:31.000 And then again, I just studied it throughout the course of my career.

00:01:34.000 Even other athletes and entertainers, I was enamored by it.

00:01:37.000 So That was always a goal.

00:01:39.000 Just as much as I wanted to win a gold medal, world championship, I wanted to leave on top when people were asking, why are you leaving?

00:01:46.000 Yeah.

00:01:47.000 It's so difficult to make that decision, though.

00:01:51.000 Roy Jones Jr. didn't even make that decision.

00:01:53.000 He said he was going to do it.

00:01:55.000 He had some rough knockouts.

00:01:58.000 Late in his career.

00:02:00.000 Hard to watch.

00:02:01.000 Some of them that people didn't even see.

00:02:03.000 Yeah.

00:02:04.000 Yeah.

00:02:04.000 Heartbreaking.

00:02:05.000 Yes.

00:02:05.000 Especially if you followed him and supported him like I have.

00:02:08.000 Especially if you know his decision was based on Gerald McClellan.

00:02:11.000 A lot of it was.

00:02:12.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:02:12.000 When Gerald McClellan, for people who don't know, was a murderer, man.

00:02:16.000 I mean, he was a savage light heavyweight, but he was cutting a lot of weight.

00:02:21.000 Yeah.

00:02:21.000 And, you know, he wound up having a serious brain injury.

00:02:25.000 Yep.

00:02:25.000 In that epic fight with Nigel Bennett, which is an amazing, amazing fight.

00:02:30.000 When Ben got off the deck, it looked like the fight was over.

00:02:33.000 Because Daryl McClown would just merc people, man.

00:02:35.000 Absolutely.

00:02:36.000 Like a prototypical cronk destroyer.

00:02:39.000 Big right hand. 0.99

00:02:41.000 Tall, strong as fuck, super aggressive, knockout striker. 0.99

00:02:46.000 And for whatever reason, Roy decided, you know what, let's just keep doing it. 1.00

00:02:51.000 Fuck it. 1.00

00:02:52.000 There's a lot of different reasons why people do that, man. 1.00

00:02:55.000 I just didn't want to be one of them, simply put.

00:02:58.000 But the retirement is coming up on two years, September 21st.

00:03:02.000 It's harder than I thought it was going to be.

00:03:04.000 One of the most hardest things I've ever had to do, but one of the most rewarding.

00:03:07.000 And the way I reconcile it in my brain is that, okay...

00:03:10.000 At some point, I'm going to have to do this.

00:03:12.000 At some point, I'm going to have to face the emotions and the pull to come back and, you know, trying to figure out if your body can still do it and just all the different things you go through, whether I'm in my prime or whether I'm 40, 45 years old.

00:03:24.000 So you can't avoid it.

00:03:25.000 It's just when do you want to take on that task.

00:03:28.000 So you're retired at 33, so you're 35 now. 0.99

00:03:30.000 So goddamn, man, you're right there. 0.97

00:03:32.000 I mean, you have like four more years to be, unless you're Bernard Hopkins. 0.99

00:03:36.000 Then you have another decade.

00:03:37.000 Yeah.

00:03:38.000 But to Bernard's credit, he started late.

00:03:40.000 He did.

00:03:40.000 Bernard started at 20-some years old and graded for state prison.

00:03:43.000 Yes.

00:03:43.000 I started at nine years old.

00:03:45.000 Well, also, Bernard developed this insane discipline while he was in prison.

00:03:49.000 The hardships of prison were so awful. 0.98

00:03:52.000 The feeling of being locked up and contained that he fucked up his life. 0.96

00:03:55.000 He was so bound and determined to become something special. 0.97

00:03:59.000 That means he's so disciplined.

00:04:00.000 Yeah.

00:04:01.000 Well, even beyond that, he opened up his eyes and he looked at the landscape and he realized that most fighters are not disciplined.

00:04:07.000 Most fighters, they like the idea of being a champion.

00:04:11.000 They like the idea of winning championships and what that brings.

00:04:15.000 Not just the championships, but what the championships and the money brings.

00:04:18.000 The ladies, you know, the party and all the stuff.

00:04:21.000 And he said, I'm going to do it a different way.

00:04:24.000 Like, these guys are out gaining weight, 20 pounds in between fights.

00:04:26.000 I'm going to live like a Spartan. 0.97

00:04:28.000 He got the revelation and he just stuck to it.

00:04:30.000 Yeah, he ate clean.

00:04:32.000 He lived a clean life.

00:04:33.000 And he fought so disciplined.

00:04:35.000 He fought so smart.

00:04:36.000 He was one of the best defensive fighters ever.

00:04:38.000 And people didn't like that style, man.

00:04:40.000 He would pop you and grab you.

00:04:41.000 Pop you and grab you.

00:04:42.000 And people would get frustrated.

00:04:43.000 They would get out of composure.

00:04:45.000 And they would start doing the things that maybe they shouldn't have done.

00:04:48.000 And then he would capitalize on those things.

00:04:50.000 I remember when he fought Trinidad, man.

00:04:52.000 One of my favorite fights.

00:04:53.000 Woo! 0.99

00:04:54.000 This Trinidad was a killer! 1.00

00:04:56.000 And I love Tito.

00:04:56.000 I do too.

00:04:57.000 I mean, he was a killer.

00:04:58.000 I got a chance to see Tito fight live in Vegas once.

00:05:01.000 It was amazing.

00:05:02.000 But when Bernard started putting it on him, I was like, wow, this is, first of all, this is like a legitimate middleweight fighting guy who's really a welterweight.

00:05:10.000 And this is also a really special fighter who just figures people out.

00:05:15.000 He fought Tito in New York City, in Madison Square Garden, which is little Puerto Rico.

00:05:19.000 Yes.

00:05:20.000 I think it was the week of the Puerto Rican Day Parade.

00:05:23.000 Yes.

00:05:24.000 And previously to that fight in Puerto Rico, Bernard Hopkins took the Puerto Rican flag, threw it down, caused a melee, had to run out of there, get snatched out of the arena, wherever they were having a press conference, get thrown on the plane.

00:05:37.000 The beef was real.

00:05:39.000 Oh, yeah.

00:05:39.000 And to be able to...

00:05:42.000 Perform under that kind of pressure?

00:05:44.000 Unreal.

00:05:44.000 One of my favorite fights.

00:05:45.000 When he was running away from the crowd in Puerto Rico, and you realize, oh my god, he's on his own here.

00:05:50.000 Like, literally, people are trying to kill him.

00:05:52.000 But what's even crazier is he knew that was going to happen.

00:05:55.000 Like, he knew, okay, this is getting ready to happen in 3, 2, 1. Threw the flag down, and it was on.

00:06:00.000 Oh, man.

00:06:01.000 But it worked.

00:06:02.000 First of all, it got so many people to pay attention to that fight.

00:06:05.000 And then two, it got Tito emotional.

00:06:09.000 If he lost that fight, he was back to the back of the bus.

00:06:11.000 If he wins the fight, which he did, he moves on to become Bernard Hopkins.

00:06:15.000 Yeah, he moves on to greatness.

00:06:17.000 You know, it's interesting when you watch his style as well, that very technical, very disciplined style versus Roy's style, which was so athletic and explosive and very unusual with that lead left hook that he would fire off more than a jab.

00:06:31.000 I mean, Roy had a crazy style.

00:06:33.000 And then you watch Roy outpoint Bernard early, but then Bernard comes back later in his career and really kind of like shut Roy down and showed like when the athleticism starts to slip away a little bit, Roy is normal.

00:06:47.000 He's a human.

00:06:48.000 He's a human.

00:06:49.000 Yeah, whereas Bernard was still this incredibly disciplined, very well-schooled boxer.

00:06:54.000 It was a real good lesson for fighters to see the deal.

00:06:57.000 Like, this is why you use the fundamentals.

00:06:59.000 This is why you fight correctly.

00:07:01.000 You can get away with being Roy Jones Jr. But Roy Jones Jr., with his physical gifts, I feel like he could have got away with fighting discipline, too.

00:07:08.000 He could have got away with fighting technically.

00:07:10.000 But, you know, he just chose to fight his way.

00:07:14.000 It worked for a long time.

00:07:15.000 It worked until it didn't work.

00:07:16.000 But it worked better than anybody.

00:07:18.000 I mean, it was amazing to watch in the day when he was on top.

00:07:21.000 Yeah.

00:07:22.000 You know, when he was knocking out Virgil Hill with body shots and putting his hands behind his back and knocking dudes out.

00:07:26.000 That was the guy I fell in love with, you know.

00:07:28.000 But he could have...

00:07:29.000 Roy could have...

00:07:31.000 He could have gone and had a full career and rode off in the sunset and been in Pensacola fishing, hunting, doing whatever he does, and still not really been super fundamentally sound.

00:07:43.000 But, I mean, after he beat John Ruiz for the Heavyweight Championship of the World, and I had been going to multiple Roy fights leading up to that heavyweight fight, Antonio Tarver, who I have a lot of respect for, you know, they were rivals in Florida when they were young.

00:07:57.000 Um...

00:07:58.000 Antonio was following Roy around, trying to get him to notice him, trying to get him to take a fight.

00:08:03.000 And I remember clear as day, in the post-fight press conference, after Roy became the heavyweight champion of the world, after being the middleweight champion, starting at 160, Antonio Tarver interrupted the press conference.

00:08:16.000 He said, Roy Jones, you've been ducking me, you've been running.

00:08:19.000 He's going on and on and on.

00:08:21.000 Roy looks at Tarver and gives him the attention that he's been after. 0.70

00:08:26.000 And he said, oh, he said, I I'm going to whoop you. 0.98

00:08:29.000 I'm going to whoop you. 0.91

00:08:30.000 We're going to make that fight happen.

00:08:31.000 And at that moment, I'm thinking like, no, Roy, no, don't do it.

00:08:35.000 You're the heavyweight champion of the world.

00:08:37.000 Tarver was still light heavyweight.

00:08:38.000 And sure enough.

00:08:41.000 Roy went down, stripped off 25 pounds of muscle that he had built up with Mackie Shieldstone to get ready for the heavyweight fight.

00:08:48.000 Went down there, fought a close fight, but he didn't look like himself.

00:08:52.000 Took the rematch.

00:08:53.000 Now, even after the first fight with Tarver, man, you run for the heels.

00:08:56.000 You know what?

00:08:56.000 I beat him.

00:08:57.000 I wasn't myself.

00:08:58.000 I'm going back up.

00:08:59.000 Took the rematch and then got knocked out.

00:09:02.000 Yeah, that's weird.

00:09:03.000 I thought the first fight was earlier.

00:09:05.000 Now, my brain's scrambled here, because I thought that that was immediately after the Ruiz fight that he got knocked out.

00:09:12.000 Yeah, it was.

00:09:12.000 He went back down.

00:09:14.000 So Ruiz, light heavyweight, went down, fought Tarver the first time, then fought the rematch, and then got knocked out the second time.

00:09:19.000 So they fought two times in a row?

00:09:20.000 They fought two times in a row, and then they ended up fighting a third time way down the road.

00:09:24.000 Did they really?

00:09:25.000 I didn't even know they fought a third time.

00:09:27.000 In Florida, yeah.

00:09:28.000 The loss of the weight was a terrible idea.

00:09:30.000 Can't do that.

00:09:31.000 And also, let's be realistic about how we put that weight on.

00:09:35.000 It's most likely there was some Mexican supplements involved, and if you're going to put that kind of bulk on...

00:09:40.000 You know, I mean, I don't know.

00:09:42.000 Roy Jones is one of my heroes.

00:09:43.000 It's not disrespecting...

00:09:45.000 No, I hear you.

00:09:45.000 And I've heard people say stuff like that, but like...

00:09:48.000 That's my guy.

00:09:50.000 I'm a kid, so I'm like, no.

00:09:51.000 I get it.

00:09:53.000 I'm believing that it was just Roy, Mackie Shieldstone, and hard work.

00:09:56.000 I believe it is that.

00:09:58.000 It's possible.

00:09:59.000 It's possible.

00:09:59.000 But I mean, what is he like?

00:10:00.000 He was like 33, 34 at the time?

00:10:02.000 He was somewhere around there.

00:10:03.000 Very hard to put 25 pounds of muscle on.

00:10:08.000 See, he cut weight to make the light heavyweight limit, right?

00:10:11.000 So you got to think he was probably like 185. 190, probably.

00:10:15.000 Yeah, and so he really only gained maybe 10, 15 pounds. 0.99

00:10:19.000 Still, he was lean as fuck. 0.98

00:10:21.000 Yeah, he was pretty lean. 1.00

00:10:22.000 He was thick, though, too.

00:10:23.000 Roy had that kind of build.

00:10:25.000 He was country strong.

00:10:26.000 Yeah, very muscular.

00:10:27.000 I mean, he had crazy biceps and no triceps.

00:10:30.000 It was all just whipping left hooks. 1.00

00:10:32.000 It was weird, right? 0.53

00:10:33.000 He had a crazy body.

00:10:35.000 I didn't notice that.

00:10:35.000 Dude, his body was very unusual.

00:10:38.000 The way he was built.

00:10:39.000 He was all biceps.

00:10:41.000 He was just whipping.

00:10:42.000 You know, he's just from whipping punches, whipping body shots.

00:10:45.000 Yeah.

00:10:45.000 No, he was phenomenal.

00:10:46.000 You got a picture of him, Jamie?

00:10:49.000 Yeah, that's my guy.

00:10:50.000 No, listen, I'm a gigantic Roy Jones Jr. fan, but I mean, I feel like...

00:10:54.000 There's one example right there.

00:10:57.000 You see how gigantic his biceps are?

00:10:58.000 But you see it almost more while he's fighting.

00:11:01.000 I mean, he really had a body built to hook you.

00:11:04.000 What if Jones remained a heavyweight? 0.91

00:11:06.000 I mean, look, he was so goddamn fast. 0.59

00:11:08.000 I mean, John Ruiz just was whiffing at air in that fight. 0.75

00:11:11.000 Well, the thing about after the Ruiz fight is, you know, we had the same manager, James Prince.

00:11:16.000 There was a Tyson fight on the table.

00:11:19.000 And I believe I'm accurate when I say this.

00:11:22.000 It was somewhere around 40 million guaranteed.

00:11:25.000 Whoa.

00:11:26.000 There's an upside, too.

00:11:28.000 You stay at heavyweight, keep the weight on, and Tyson wasn't quite Tyson at that time.

00:11:31.000 Still dangerous, but wasn't quite Tyson.

00:11:33.000 I think they were working toward it.

00:11:34.000 From what I've heard, Roy wanted more money.

00:11:37.000 James Prince was like, bro, take this, $40 million.

00:11:40.000 There's going to be an upside.

00:11:42.000 It's you and Mike Tyson, Roy Jones and Mike Tyson.

00:11:44.000 Roy somehow said, nope, the fight will be there later on down the road.

00:11:47.000 Put his attention toward Antonio Tarver.

00:11:49.000 The rest is history.

00:11:50.000 Wow.

00:11:51.000 I'm kind of glad he didn't fight Tyson.

00:11:53.000 I wanted to see him fight Tyson and ride off in the sunset.

00:11:58.000 Yeah, but I don't think Roy was ever really going to ride off in the sunset.

00:12:03.000 He likes being Roy Jones Jr. so much.

00:12:06.000 Tyson Jones had 2003 Fight Card.

00:12:09.000 Is that around when he fought Gulotta?

00:12:11.000 They were supposed to start an HBO pay-per-view and they were supposed to be the first fight on it.

00:12:15.000 Go to Mike Tyson's Wikipedia, his record, because I think that was around the time where he fought Gulotta.

00:12:22.000 He was still murking people.

00:12:24.000 I mean, he wasn't the Mike Tyson of, you know, the later years.

00:12:28.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:12:29.000 He was still...

00:12:30.000 I don't think Tyson fought Gulotta, did he?

00:12:31.000 Oh, yeah, he stopped him.

00:12:32.000 Yeah, Gulotta left the ring.

00:12:34.000 He dropped him and hurt him real bad.

00:12:36.000 Andrew Gulotta? 1.00

00:12:36.000 Yeah, and Gulotta was like, fuck this. 1.00

00:12:37.000 His trainer called him a coward. 1.00

00:12:39.000 He was yelling and screaming. 0.98

00:12:40.000 He hit him with one punch and dropped him. 1.00

00:12:42.000 And Gulotta was like, fuck this. 1.00

00:12:44.000 And he broke something in his neck. 1.00

00:12:45.000 He broke his face and something in his neck.

00:12:48.000 Yeah, you gotta look that up.

00:12:49.000 That was three years before this.

00:12:50.000 That was 2000. Oh, okay.

00:12:52.000 You never seen that?

00:12:53.000 I probably did.

00:12:54.000 I don't remember him fighting Tyson.

00:12:55.000 Yeah, Gulotta left the ring.

00:12:57.000 He dropped...

00:12:58.000 See, it says...

00:12:59.000 Well, RTD, what does that stand for?

00:13:03.000 Retired.

00:13:03.000 Because he quit.

00:13:04.000 Yeah.

00:13:05.000 And so the next dude too.

00:13:07.000 Yeah, Mike Tyson was...

00:13:08.000 Last thing I remember of Andrew Gulotta is his fights with Riddick, bro.

00:13:11.000 Oh, those were crazy.

00:13:11.000 Low blow.

00:13:12.000 That's the last thing I remember of Gulotta.

00:13:13.000 It was crazy. 1.00

00:13:14.000 He just decided to keep punching him in the dick. 1.00

00:13:16.000 Like, I never saw anything like that in my life. 0.99

00:13:18.000 He fought him well in the first fight, but he kept hitting him low.

00:13:22.000 Whenever things would go bad for him, he would just look for a way out.

00:13:26.000 And that's what he did with Tyson.

00:13:27.000 Tyson dropped him.

00:13:29.000 See if he can pull that up.

00:13:29.000 Pull up the KO. Because Tyson hit him with a perfect right hand.

00:13:33.000 Boom! 0.99

00:13:34.000 Dropped him. 1.00

00:13:34.000 And Gulotta got up and was like, fuck this. 1.00

00:13:36.000 His corner was screaming at him. 0.99

00:13:38.000 And he literally just climbed down the ropes and said, see ya.

00:13:40.000 Just walked back to the dressing room.

00:13:42.000 Something was off with Gulotta, man.

00:13:44.000 Definitely.

00:13:45.000 Something was off. 0.89

00:13:46.000 Well, he was crazy. 0.99

00:13:47.000 Like, he had done a lot of crazy street shit, too, and been involved in bar fights and stuff like that, too. 0.99

00:13:52.000 It's like he went down. 0.98

00:13:53.000 He just quit after the second round.

00:13:55.000 See if you can find the video.

00:13:56.000 I'm watching the video.

00:13:57.000 I don't see him falling.

00:13:58.000 Well, pull it up so we can watch it.

00:13:59.000 What are you watching by yourself?

00:14:00.000 Yeah, well, I'm trying to interrupt the conversation.

00:14:03.000 There you go.

00:14:03.000 He went down right here, I guess.

00:14:04.000 Yeah, he went down, man.

00:14:05.000 I remember the fight very clearly.

00:14:06.000 He hit him with a clean right hand.

00:14:08.000 It would have been round one, though.

00:14:09.000 Here, show it.

00:14:10.000 Yeah, it was a one-round fight.

00:14:11.000 It was a two-round fight, but I think he went down in the first.

00:14:14.000 Okay, here it is.

00:14:15.000 Boom! 0.99

00:14:15.000 Hit him with that right hand. 0.99

00:14:17.000 So Gulotta went down, and at the end, I think it was in between rounds is when he decided to bail.

00:14:23.000 I think that's why it's...

00:14:24.000 Yeah, it's right after the second here.

00:14:25.000 This is the second ending, and he quits.

00:14:28.000 Here, this guy's come in.

00:14:30.000 Yeah, he's just like, no.

00:14:32.000 Well, we'd have to watch the whole fight.

00:14:32.000 Yeah, I think I remember that, bro.

00:14:34.000 It was the right hand, and then he pushed the referee off.

00:14:35.000 Look, he's pushing everybody off. 1.00

00:14:36.000 It's like, fuck you. 1.00

00:14:37.000 I'm out of here. 1.00

00:14:38.000 He knew something was wrong, too.

00:14:39.000 And he had, I think he had a fractured orbital, and I believe there was something wrong with his neck, too.

00:14:44.000 Like, it broke a bone in his neck.

00:14:47.000 I don't know, bro.

00:14:48.000 That's Andrew Gulotta for you, man. 0.88

00:14:50.000 Yeah, he was crazy. 0.57

00:14:51.000 Yeah, it was something off with him.

00:14:53.000 I don't know whatever happened to him.

00:14:54.000 I don't know.

00:14:55.000 Probably not good.

00:14:56.000 I hope he got some help.

00:14:59.000 You know what I mean?

00:15:00.000 When you think about a career as a heavyweight fighter, too, and all the heavy blows that that guy took, whatever mental problems he might have had were certainly compounded.

00:15:10.000 That didn't help.

00:15:11.000 No, no, no.

00:15:12.000 No.

00:15:13.000 You know, you had an amazing career, but one of the things that I think maybe people aren't as aware of, makes your career even more incredible, is that you fought for a long time with a bad shoulder.

00:15:25.000 Like, if you go back and watch the Carl Frotch fight, I watched that, getting ready for this, I watched it again, you boxed the shit out of him with mostly your left hand.

00:15:34.000 Yeah. 0.96

00:15:35.000 It was crazy.

00:15:36.000 Yeah.

00:15:38.000 12 years old, tore my subscapularis, which is responsible for 50% of the strength in a rotator.

00:15:48.000 Didn't really know it at the time.

00:15:49.000 We were told, hey, he's too young, he shouldn't have surgery, just rehab it.

00:15:53.000 Wrong advice.

00:15:54.000 Found that out 10 years later.

00:15:57.000 We just rehabbed it with, you know, bands and strengthening exercises, but we never had surgery, so that was always kind of my Achilles heel, man.

00:16:04.000 Like, there's been plenty of fights where I just fought one-handed because it didn't feel strong.

00:16:09.000 It didn't feel, like, safe.

00:16:10.000 I felt like any time I would throw it, it could pop out of the socket.

00:16:13.000 Like, that's how it felt.

00:16:14.000 So it had popped out before?

00:16:15.000 It had not, but it felt like it could.

00:16:20.000 Got it fixed right around 2013, and it wasn't 100, but it was better.

00:16:24.000 And I was able to finish out the rest of my career.

00:16:27.000 So it's still not 100 now.

00:16:29.000 It's not 100, but I'll take it.

00:16:31.000 Yeah, I'll take it, bro.

00:16:32.000 Like, I probably gained about 30-40% with that surgery.

00:16:35.000 Like, they grabbed it because the subscapularis was loose.

00:16:38.000 It wasn't attached, but it wasn't atrophied.

00:16:40.000 It was still like a fat, thriving muscle.

00:16:42.000 It just wasn't attached.

00:16:42.000 My doctor was like, whoa, like, has this ever popped out of the socket?

00:16:45.000 Dr. Michael Dillingham in San Francisco.

00:16:47.000 I was like, nah.

00:16:48.000 He was like, How?

00:16:49.000 Like, your shoulder capsule is like shot.

00:16:51.000 The subscap is hanging.

00:16:52.000 He said, but the good news is it's still a thriving muscle.

00:16:55.000 Let's get it attached.

00:16:56.000 Boom.

00:16:56.000 He attached it.

00:16:58.000 Like a four-hour surgery, something like that.

00:17:00.000 One of those surgeries that you're not guaranteed to come out of the same.

00:17:03.000 And you had to wait for a month or so to see if the surgery took.

00:17:07.000 Like, if everything would mend and kind of get, you know, kind of get stronger.

00:17:10.000 It took, man.

00:17:11.000 And like I said, I finished out the rest of my career strong.

00:17:13.000 Wow.

00:17:14.000 So how long was the rehab?

00:17:15.000 Probably about eight months.

00:17:16.000 So you went from, it was about 2012 to 2015 where you didn't fight very often.

00:17:23.000 Was that because?

00:17:24.000 Very infrequently, yeah.

00:17:25.000 Was that because of the show?

00:17:26.000 Combination of a lawsuit and the injury.

00:17:29.000 Yeah.

00:17:30.000 It's kind of like back-to-back blows.

00:17:31.000 So for eight months, you're rehabbing it, and just still, when did you know that for sure you're going to be able to come back?

00:17:39.000 You kind of turn the corner and rehab.

00:17:41.000 You know, three-month mark, four-month mark, you kind of realize, dude, I'm good.

00:17:45.000 I'm not where I need to be, but I'm headed there.

00:17:48.000 So probably about that time, about halfway through, you realize that you're going to be okay.

00:17:51.000 It's just going to take some time to fully get the strength back.

00:17:53.000 But even my next fight against Edwin Rodriguez, I still didn't throw it.

00:17:56.000 And I didn't realize I didn't throw it until I watched the tape.

00:17:58.000 I watched the tape, I was like...

00:17:59.000 It was like a one-handed affair.

00:18:02.000 And then after that, the thing about injuries is weird.

00:18:05.000 That 12-month period for me has always been just like that sweet spot.

00:18:09.000 So I got to that 12-month period with the shoulder and all of a sudden my overhand right came back.

00:18:12.000 I hadn't thrown an overhand right in 10 years.

00:18:14.000 The power in my right uppercut came back. 0.99

00:18:16.000 I'm like, dude, this is getting better.

00:18:18.000 So after that...

00:18:19.000 Then you started to see that thing flying and started whistling.

00:18:22.000 And ironically enough, my last fight, that was the punch that started all the trouble for Sergey Kovalev.

00:18:26.000 Well, it's interesting because you were so successful with one hand. 0.95

00:18:32.000 It makes you wonder, how goddamn good would you have been if you had two hands? 0.92

00:18:37.000 Or was it your left hand was so educated? 0.98

00:18:41.000 It had to be.

00:18:41.000 It had to be, but one of the things you were so good at, man, was, I don't have to tell you, you know this, was using your jab to shut down southpaw fighters, shut down their jab and counter.

00:18:53.000 You know, and you just had that, you had like extra juice with your left hand because you used it so much.

00:18:59.000 I had to.

00:19:00.000 When you have one hand or one arm that functions really well, you learn to make that thing great.

00:19:05.000 You overcompensate, and that's what that left hand was, overcompensation because I didn't have the right hand to fall back on.

00:19:10.000 But the whole Southpaw thing, shout out to my boy Nick and Nate Diaz and all the work we've done in camp.

00:19:17.000 Those guys got me ready for a lot of my Southpaw opponents midway through and toward the end of my career.

00:19:23.000 A lot of work with those guys, and specifically Nate.

00:19:25.000 At a certain point, I stopped working with Nick because he was doing other things, but Nate, man, and the volume and having to deal with the awkwardness and the height and the reach, that got me ready for Chad Dawson.

00:19:37.000 That's amazing.

00:19:38.000 That's my boy.

00:19:39.000 Yeah, he's a tough dude, man.

00:19:41.000 Watching him come back after three years out of the game and beat Pettis like that.

00:19:45.000 I shot him a message.

00:19:46.000 I was like, bro, you're a bad man. 0.99

00:19:47.000 You're a bad man. 0.87

00:19:48.000 Like three years, really? 0.99

00:19:49.000 He's a bad man.

00:19:50.000 Well, I'm just happy that the UFC is finally recognizing the love and support that guy has from the fans, too.

00:19:56.000 Because for whatever reason, they were so high on Conor McGregor and all these other people, they didn't see.

00:20:01.000 One of the reasons why the Conor fight was so big was because of Nate Diaz. 0.99

00:20:04.000 Nate Diaz is a fucking star. 0.97

00:20:06.000 When they put his face on the screen for the Pettis fight, I mean, the arena erupted. 0.99

00:20:11.000 It was chaos.

00:20:12.000 They went nuts.

00:20:13.000 Yeah.

00:20:14.000 I mean, I don't know why they couldn't see it.

00:20:17.000 I mean, Conor obviously was, you know, he was a little bit different and he brought what he brought to the table, but probably would have been a good thing to try to balance them both out, show love to Nate.

00:20:25.000 But, you know, he was like the rebel child.

00:20:27.000 You know, he'd say whatever came to his mind and, you know, the powers that be, they don't like that.

00:20:31.000 I think he was a little overshadowed by his brother, too, because, you know, when your brother's a superstar, there's something about, I mean, and especially, like, his brother, when he was fighting in Strikeforce, in particular, was one of the best fighters in the world.

00:20:42.000 He was just amazing.

00:20:43.000 And then, you know, especially, like, you know, during, like, his title reign, like, when he was at his peak when he was fighting in Strikeforce.

00:20:52.000 But for whatever reason, they just, you know, Nate just flew under the radar.

00:20:57.000 Yeah.

00:20:57.000 Until that Conor McGregor fight, the first one.

00:20:59.000 Yeah.

00:20:59.000 Then they recognize.

00:21:01.000 Yeah, I hope they capitalize on it now while he still has a few years left.

00:21:04.000 Yeah.

00:21:05.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:21:06.000 It's that whole layoff thing.

00:21:09.000 Not even trying to stay relevant, but just trying to keep your skills from eroding.

00:21:12.000 That's a whole thing right there.

00:21:14.000 And then trying to go perform after that amount of time, it's hard.

00:21:18.000 He and me have fallen from that and not come back the same.

00:21:21.000 He didn't lose a beat.

00:21:22.000 It was crazy.

00:21:23.000 He looked as good as ever.

00:21:24.000 It was amazing.

00:21:24.000 The good thing is, though, he seems to always be working.

00:21:26.000 And that's what saved me when I was off.

00:21:28.000 Just always chipping away in the gym.

00:21:30.000 Him and his brother, they got their own schools, and they're always in there grappling, working out.

00:21:35.000 So that's what saved him.

00:21:37.000 Now, if you take off...

00:21:38.000 Three years of nothing, two years of nothing, a year of nothing, that's when you come back and you look like a totally different person.

00:21:43.000 I always point to Muhammad Ali.

00:21:45.000 When Muhammad Ali was forced to retire, when he took three years off and then he came back, he did not look physically like the same guy.

00:21:53.000 You know, who did he come back and fight?

00:21:55.000 It wasn't Chuck Wepner. 0.99

00:21:56.000 It was, uh, what the fucks his name? 0.98

00:21:58.000 Was it Zero Folly? 0.99

00:21:59.000 No, no, no, no, no.

00:22:00.000 It was, um...

00:22:05.000 It's a tragic guy.

00:22:07.000 A white dude.

00:22:08.000 And then his brother was also like... 1.00

00:22:10.000 How can I not remember his fucking name? 0.99

00:22:12.000 I don't think I know who you're talking about, man. 0.99

00:22:15.000 Jamie will pull it up.

00:22:16.000 I know who you're talking about, too.

00:22:18.000 Corey.

00:22:18.000 Yes.

00:22:19.000 Jerry Corey.

00:22:20.000 Yeah, Jerry Corey.

00:22:21.000 And his brother, apparently, who only had like one or two pro fights at all, also had severe dementia by the time he died.

00:22:28.000 He had how many fights?

00:22:28.000 His brother?

00:22:29.000 His brother only had a couple.

00:22:30.000 I think he won a couple of pro fights.

00:22:32.000 It was mostly just gym wars.

00:22:33.000 I think I remember correctly.

00:22:35.000 But Corey and his dad apparently forced them to have that kind of fight style.

00:22:41.000 They just went to war all the time.

00:22:43.000 And yes, during the end of his career, the end of his life, I should say.

00:22:47.000 That's why I don't subscribe.

00:22:49.000 Here's the thing.

00:22:50.000 For me, this is my view on this.

00:22:52.000 If you love combat sports, if you love fighting, if you love boxing, you enjoy it all.

00:22:56.000 I love the guy that has to take two to give one But I also love the master.

00:23:01.000 And I'll just speak for boxing.

00:23:03.000 The problem that we have is we've ostracized the master of the game.

00:23:08.000 Instead of articulating what we're seeing or trying to articulate what we're seeing and leaving it right there, let it be what it is and let the fans decide what they like and don't like.

00:23:17.000 We've tried to tell the fans what they should.

00:23:19.000 This is boring.

00:23:20.000 Hold on.

00:23:21.000 That's the guy that's going to be speaking properly when all is said and done.

00:23:24.000 This guy, hopefully he is too, but the likelihood is a lot less because you take giving two to give one.

00:23:29.000 But as soon as that guy gets knocked out, then all of a sudden everybody turns on him.

00:23:32.000 Yeah.

00:23:33.000 So I'm thankful that when I walked into the gym for the first time, my dad was scouring for a trainer.

00:23:39.000 Who could teach his son how to hit and not get hit.

00:23:41.000 He saw Verge, who became my godfather and has been my trainer for my whole career.

00:23:46.000 He said, man, I'm a fan of Muhammad Ali.

00:23:50.000 He said, I've had 15 amateur fights as a heavyweight.

00:23:54.000 Can you teach my son how to hit and not get hit?

00:23:56.000 If I heard it, that's my specialty.

00:23:59.000 But just think if my dad was on something else.

00:24:01.000 What if my dad was like, make my son tough.

00:24:04.000 I want him to take it and dish it up.

00:24:06.000 I may not be sitting before you right now.

00:24:08.000 And if you did, it would probably be a different kind of conversation.

00:24:10.000 Yeah, Virgil Hunter is a special guy.

00:24:12.000 He really is.

00:24:13.000 You could tell when you hear him talking.

00:24:15.000 You hear him talk about the game and the way he would formulate game plans and strategies.

00:24:20.000 Yeah.

00:24:21.000 You know, I remember, I think it was the Chad Dawson fight.

00:24:25.000 I think it was that when you knocked out Chad Dawson.

00:24:27.000 When, you know, you could see the look in his face of happiness and accomplishment.

00:24:32.000 But also, we got through the danger.

00:24:36.000 We did it.

00:24:37.000 It's over.

00:24:37.000 But game accomplished.

00:24:39.000 You know, when you have a special relationship, whether it's in MMA or whether it's in boxing...

00:24:44.000 Those special relationships between a trainer and a fighter, they're so valuable.

00:24:49.000 And to me, as a person who loves to watch the sport, I appreciate them so much because I know that you could get there on your own.

00:24:57.000 You can get there and have feuds with your trainer and break up.

00:25:01.000 Like Kovalev does.

00:25:03.000 Kovalev's John David Jackson for a while, and now I like that he's with Buddy McGurk.

00:25:07.000 Buddy, yeah.

00:25:08.000 It's better if you have a real harmonious relationship with a master, because that's what Virgil Hunter is.

00:25:15.000 He's a master.

00:25:15.000 He understands the game.

00:25:16.000 He understands it inside and out.

00:25:19.000 One thing he used to always tell me, and I never looked at it like that, he was like, son, my sole purpose, my main focus is to get you home safe to your family.

00:25:26.000 He said it's not for us to win championships.

00:25:28.000 It's not for you to be all everything.

00:25:30.000 It's to get you home to Tiffany and those kids safely.

00:25:33.000 And when he said that, it just put it all in perspective for me.

00:25:36.000 He's a competitor.

00:25:37.000 He wants to win, but not at the expense of my health.

00:25:40.000 And because he taught me the right way, we got the wins and the belts and everything anyway, and then I was also able to go home to my family.

00:25:48.000 Yeah.

00:25:48.000 That's an amazing relationship.

00:25:50.000 You know, one of the things that always stood out to me about you was how composed you are, and you rarely get emotional.

00:25:57.000 You know, even, like, I remember when you fought Karl Frotch.

00:26:00.000 Karl Frotch hit you clearly after the bell, clearly in a fight you were dominating, and you just went like this.

00:26:05.000 He just said, you didn't even get mad. 1.00

00:26:07.000 You didn't go, fuck you. 1.00

00:26:09.000 You did nothing. 1.00

00:26:10.000 You took that punch and you just went...

00:26:12.000 Turned and just went back to your corner like it never happened like you just just wiped it clean like that's not gonna benefit me to get upset here.

00:26:19.000 How did you develop that kind of composure?

00:26:23.000 I think one thing that my dad and Verge did really well for me and my brother Jonathan who box with me for many years They gave us mental reps.

00:26:34.000 Like I'd be driving in the car or riding in the car with Verge or my dad and they'd be telling me, listen, man, when you get in that ring, when you spar today, man, listen, I do try to hit you low.

00:26:42.000 You make sure you get your respect.

00:26:44.000 You don't accept this in the ring.

00:26:46.000 Like this is these are things that I was taught.

00:26:48.000 I was like I was taught to be a warrior at a young age.

00:26:52.000 And oftentimes trainers will train the body, but they don't train the mind.

00:26:56.000 So, plus, and also life experiences, things that I've been through with my mom, my dad, and just all that kind of stuff, plus my internal makeup, the way God made me.

00:27:05.000 All of that combined, I never had to be the loudest talker in the room because I knew that...

00:27:12.000 All the stuff, the real stuff, it's in me.

00:27:14.000 It's not on me.

00:27:16.000 So I'm the type that you hit me like that, I'm going to smile at you.

00:27:20.000 I got you.

00:27:21.000 We got another round to fight, sir.

00:27:23.000 So my anger, my get back, I'm going to get it within the confines of these rules, but you're going to feel me.

00:27:32.000 Kovalev knocked me down.

00:27:34.000 All right, bro, I got you.

00:27:35.000 I smiled.

00:27:36.000 You're embarrassed.

00:27:37.000 You're embarrassed.

00:27:38.000 You're mad, you're frustrated, you're everything.

00:27:40.000 And then that eight second, that eight count you're getting, you feel every emotion you could possibly feel.

00:27:44.000 But inside, I knew like, now you're going to have to knock me out because I'm coming to get it.

00:27:49.000 So some of it is innate.

00:27:51.000 Some of it was taught.

00:27:52.000 And then throughout the course of my life and career, I was given the mental reps.

00:27:57.000 Hey, son, watch him right here.

00:27:59.000 Watch how so-and-so pushed his hand down and he got right back in his face. 0.89

00:28:02.000 Not out of the ring, but in the ring.

00:28:04.000 Teaching me and showing me and highlighting what a strong mind was and what a weak mind was.

00:28:09.000 And typically, the weak mind was the loudest talker.

00:28:12.000 Now, don't get me wrong.

00:28:13.000 I love a guy that can talk the talk and back it up.

00:28:15.000 There's not a lot of those in the game, no.

00:28:17.000 MMA or boxing.

00:28:18.000 So, I'm afraid of the guy who's not saying very much.

00:28:22.000 The guy that's hard to read.

00:28:24.000 The guy we're trying to figure out.

00:28:25.000 Man, what's up with him?

00:28:26.000 That's the guy I'm concerned about.

00:28:28.000 The loudest talker.

00:28:29.000 I used to get excited when guys used to just go over the top.

00:28:32.000 I'd be like, man, this dude, I got him.

00:28:34.000 I got him.

00:28:35.000 Keep talking.

00:28:36.000 I got him.

00:28:36.000 Same thing with Kovalev.

00:28:37.000 Fought the first fight.

00:28:39.000 Clothes could have went either way.

00:28:41.000 But from the time the first fight ended until the time the second fight started, I learned more about that guy in that period of time than I did in any round that I fought him in.

00:28:51.000 He said so much.

00:28:53.000 And I was poking holes in it.

00:28:54.000 I was quiet and I was just sitting back.

00:28:56.000 And everybody was misreading the silence.

00:28:57.000 Like, oh, Ward's scared.

00:28:59.000 He's not going to take the reading, man.

00:29:00.000 I'm just sitting there like, man, I'm taking notes, man.

00:29:02.000 This guy, keep talking.

00:29:04.000 Keep talking.

00:29:05.000 And he was just saying things.

00:29:06.000 I was like, this is a weakness.

00:29:08.000 Now, if he would have said, look, I felt like I won that fight.

00:29:11.000 I felt like they robbed me.

00:29:13.000 I'm coming back to get it.

00:29:14.000 And then went silent, went dark.

00:29:16.000 Now I'm like, man, this dude is getting ready.

00:29:17.000 We got to tighten up.

00:29:19.000 Kept talking, man.

00:29:20.000 Sometimes that talking will reveal a little bit too much about yourself.

00:29:23.000 What did you see from the talking?

00:29:24.000 Just excuse making.

00:29:26.000 He didn't give me any credit.

00:29:29.000 I'm exaggerating, but just for the case of emphasis, if the ring lights weren't too bright, the referee was against him.

00:29:37.000 If it wasn't the referee, it was the judges.

00:29:38.000 He never owned up to anything that he did wrong.

00:29:42.000 But if I go back to the research that we did about him before we even fought him the first time, that line doubled what we heard.

00:29:49.000 The guy, he doesn't take ownership of anything.

00:29:52.000 He blames everybody.

00:29:53.000 Anytime anything goes wrong, he's a frontrunner. 1.00

00:29:56.000 He's a bully. 0.99

00:29:56.000 He's this, he's that. 0.99

00:29:57.000 That confirmed everything we had heard.

00:30:00.000 So, you're the crusher.

00:30:02.000 You're Sergei Kovalev.

00:30:04.000 You knocked me down in the second round.

00:30:07.000 Not the 11th.

00:30:08.000 The second round.

00:30:09.000 You were supposed to finish me, sir.

00:30:11.000 The fact that we're even talking about a fight being close.

00:30:14.000 The fact that I finished the fight.

00:30:17.000 That's bothering you.

00:30:19.000 That's chipping away at this whole crusher thing that you've been living on, and he couldn't handle it.

00:30:26.000 And instead of owning it, he blamed John David Jackson.

00:30:29.000 He blamed this guy, blamed that guy.

00:30:30.000 That's a sign of weakness, man, not strength.

00:30:33.000 Were you impressed with him getting through the eighth round against Yard in his last fight?

00:30:38.000 I wouldn't say impressed.

00:30:40.000 I mean, listen, he hasn't gotten where he's gotten by not being tough.

00:30:45.000 So generally speaking, he's tough.

00:30:47.000 He's a tough individual to a point.

00:30:50.000 I wasn't surprised.

00:30:52.000 I was just, I was like, dude, if you ever, if a fighter has ever been saved by the bail, you were just saved by the bail.

00:30:59.000 Like you were a punch or two away from getting, you know, getting stopped in your home country and in your home, your home city, hometown.

00:31:07.000 That was the only kind of like jarring part of it.

00:31:10.000 And then my next thought was, can he recover?

00:31:12.000 Is he going to be able to physically recover, then psychologically come back and try to get back what Yard took from him in that round?

00:31:17.000 And he did that.

00:31:18.000 So he showed me that he still got something in the tank, but he was the right way to say it.

00:31:25.000 He's fading fast.

00:31:27.000 Like, he's fading right before our eyes.

00:31:29.000 He doesn't have the reaction.

00:31:30.000 He doesn't have...

00:31:31.000 He's still very good.

00:31:32.000 He still can beat a lot of guys, but he's fading fast.

00:31:35.000 If there's a Canelo fight on the table, I think you should take it and ride off in the sunset, man.

00:31:39.000 Go enjoy your life.

00:31:40.000 Well, it was interesting how you exposed him in the second fight.

00:31:44.000 Because the body shots have been a weakness since then.

00:31:50.000 Everybody has kind of compromised his body.

00:31:52.000 They've found what you found out.

00:31:54.000 Is that something you knew going into the second fight?

00:31:57.000 Or did you know it in the first fight?

00:31:59.000 We knew that in the first fight.

00:32:00.000 Did you?

00:32:01.000 The problem with me in the first fight, the first couple rounds, I was thinking too much.

00:32:05.000 And this dude came out fast.

00:32:07.000 So I'm thinking, I'm trying to get my range, and he's like, boom, boom, boom.

00:32:11.000 And it's not that he's like this crazy power puncher.

00:32:13.000 It's just that he's sharp and he's accurate.

00:32:16.000 So I'm like catching shots.

00:32:17.000 I'm getting hit with jabs.

00:32:19.000 I'm trying to figure he didn't give me a chance to think.

00:32:21.000 And then, boom, I got hit with the right hand.

00:32:22.000 And I'm like, that's it, bro.

00:32:24.000 So that was the best thing that could happen to me, like I said earlier.

00:32:27.000 And then you saw the body attack get implemented.

00:32:30.000 So that was always the game plan.

00:32:31.000 I won the second fight with everything that I did in the first fight.

00:32:35.000 Like we unlocked the code in the first fight.

00:32:38.000 But people couldn't get past the knockdown.

00:32:39.000 They failed to look at the next 10 rounds.

00:32:42.000 But yeah, the next 10 rounds you started to take over and you were solving the riddle.

00:32:46.000 It's interesting the difference in power punchers.

00:32:49.000 There's levels of power punchers.

00:32:51.000 We always thought of him as this power puncher.

00:32:54.000 Because he's the crusher.

00:32:55.000 He knocked a lot of people out.

00:32:56.000 But then there's like a Julian Jackson level.

00:32:59.000 There's a snap!

00:33:00.000 And then people just go stiff and fall over.

00:33:02.000 George Foreman.

00:33:03.000 Yes. 1.00

00:33:03.000 Like George could kill you. 1.00

00:33:05.000 Yes. 0.99

00:33:05.000 He hits right. 0.99

00:33:06.000 The Joe Frazier fight.

00:33:07.000 Yes.

00:33:07.000 Like Jesus Christ.

00:33:08.000 Yes.

00:33:08.000 Terrifying.

00:33:09.000 Yeah.

00:33:09.000 Yeah, George was one of them.

00:33:12.000 I mean, there's been a bunch of guys like that, but that's that different level of power punching.

00:33:17.000 I mean, Ernie Shavers was another one.

00:33:19.000 There's certain guys. 1.00

00:33:21.000 You know, I mean, fuck, man. 1.00

00:33:22.000 Thomas Hearn's in his prime. 1.00

00:33:23.000 Tommy Hearn.

00:33:24.000 The way he put away Roberto Duran. 1.00

00:33:25.000 Holy shit. 1.00

00:33:26.000 Didn't kill you. 1.00

00:33:26.000 And also the torque, you know, there was so much distance between like the length of his arms, the width of his shoulders, and then blap when that punch would come in. 1.00

00:33:37.000 Jesus!

00:33:38.000 Catch you on the end, you got trouble.

00:33:39.000 You get caught in that last power area.

00:33:42.000 Yes, yes.

00:33:43.000 He would just put the lights out.

00:33:45.000 Kurt Kovalev never had that kind of power.

00:33:48.000 It was like a snapping power.

00:33:50.000 I mean, listen, he did have power.

00:33:51.000 I don't want to take away from him.

00:33:52.000 No, yes, definitely.

00:33:53.000 He beat a lot of guys in their hometowns, home countries, and that's a reason why.

00:33:57.000 At a certain point in the fight, you would see him hit a guy, and then all of a sudden their body language was different.

00:34:02.000 And I think one thing that was lost on my whole career that nobody ever talked about was I probably had one of the best chins in the sport of boxing over the last, you know, at that time, 10 years.

00:34:10.000 Like, I had beaten the best, the heaviest punchers in the game and in my weight class.

00:34:15.000 Like, if you look at Kovalev, out of all the damage that he's done in the light heavyweight division, he had 20 rounds.

00:34:23.000 He had one moment.

00:34:24.000 He didn't have a wobble.

00:34:26.000 He didn't shake me up anywhere.

00:34:28.000 One moment, and it was a flash moment.

00:34:30.000 So just quantify that.

00:34:32.000 Like a guy who, his name is The Crusher.

00:34:33.000 Like he is who he is.

00:34:34.000 He had one moment in 20 rounds.

00:34:36.000 So a lot of it had to do with my chin.

00:34:38.000 A lot of it had to do with my toughness, which is also underrated.

00:34:42.000 And I just like, I know this is going to sound dramatic.

00:34:45.000 I know it's going to sound dramatic, but I didn't like to lose.

00:34:50.000 And for me, it was kind of like either win or die.

00:34:54.000 Like, that's how I felt.

00:34:56.000 Like, it wasn't that serious, but that's how it felt.

00:34:59.000 Like, I always thought about Sunday morning.

00:35:01.000 Like, dude, if you lose, it's going to be a crazy ride home on that plane.

00:35:06.000 Family's going to be looking crazy, feeling bad.

00:35:09.000 Everybody's going to be looking at you different.

00:35:10.000 Like, and you're going to feel crazy.

00:35:12.000 Like, I remember being curled up, like, in a ball on a Southwest flight, coming back from Lenexa, Kansas, losing the last fight I ever lost against John Revish.

00:35:23.000 A guy from Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

00:35:25.000 How old were you back then?

00:35:26.000 14. That is hilarious.

00:35:29.000 14. 14 years old.

00:35:30.000 Till retired.

00:35:31.000 Never lost again.

00:35:32.000 And John was, it was a 14, 15 year old bracket.

00:35:36.000 So he was a little bit older.

00:35:38.000 And he was kind of a stocky kid.

00:35:39.000 Again, country strong.

00:35:40.000 And we were watching each other in separate backers.

00:35:42.000 So, you know, it's like a five day tournament.

00:35:43.000 You can fight four to five times and get to the finals.

00:35:46.000 And I'm looking at him.

00:35:48.000 And I was a little bit intimidated.

00:35:51.000 He didn't punk me like, oh, I'm scared to death, but I was like, man, I'm a little leery.

00:35:55.000 And he was knocking guys out, and I was decisioning guys along the way.

00:35:59.000 It could have went either way.

00:36:00.000 I think he won a 3-2 decision.

00:36:02.000 Three judges went his way, two judges went my way.

00:36:04.000 But if I was honest with myself, I got beat before the fight.

00:36:08.000 And at that moment, like, feeling the way I felt coming home, I made up my mind, like, dude, as much as that's up to me, like, that's never going to happen again.

00:36:19.000 Like, I can't control every aspect of the fight game.

00:36:21.000 Stuff happens, but it's not going to be because you beat me before the fight.

00:36:25.000 I can't live with this anymore.

00:36:26.000 So that was my motivation, man, just the drive.

00:36:29.000 Like, it was like, win or die.

00:36:31.000 And then here's the thing about boxing.

00:36:34.000 I don't know about MMA, but the only sport that I know of where one loss changes your pay scale.

00:36:41.000 Like, if you have a minimum, like, hey, you win a title, your first defense is this, second defense is that, these are your minimums, we'll negotiate beyond that, you know, whatever, whatever.

00:36:50.000 Go ahead and lose one.

00:36:51.000 That's going to get cut in half.

00:36:53.000 So a loss literally takes food off my family's table.

00:36:56.000 I also knew that my critics and my supporters, but namely my critics, they had a front row seat every fight.

00:37:03.000 They're looking down and looking up.

00:37:07.000 So I'd get in the ring, you know, before the first bell would ring, and I'd go around and kind of just feel the ring out and kind of look out, and I'd always see them looking.

00:37:15.000 Is tonight going to be the night?

00:37:17.000 So I had that weighing on me.

00:37:19.000 I had the supporters that believed in me and was riding for me.

00:37:22.000 First couple rows, my family's right there.

00:37:24.000 My wife, my kids, I'd always blow her a kiss.

00:37:26.000 All of this stuff was tangible and real to me.

00:37:29.000 And that's the stuff that would drive me.

00:37:32.000 And so when I get knocked down by a Kovalev, that's fight or flight time, baby.

00:37:38.000 Like, whatever's in you is going to come out.

00:37:39.000 If you got some turn in you, that's the time you're going to turn.

00:37:42.000 It's going to be self-preservation mode.

00:37:44.000 And you're going to be more focused on surviving than you are trying to win.

00:37:50.000 And I thank God, man, that he had his hand on me that night, bro.

00:37:54.000 And that what...

00:37:55.000 What's in me was real.

00:37:57.000 And it was enough to break him.

00:37:59.000 And the rest is history.

00:38:01.000 The rest is history.

00:38:02.000 It is amazing how much energy people get from haters.

00:38:06.000 I mean, I don't recommend reading negative comments or negative articles. 0.98

00:38:12.000 But it's amazing how people with a certain kind of resolve, a championship resolve, will take that hater shit and you'll get up 15 minutes earlier than you're supposed to. 0.96

00:38:20.000 And you'll have more intensity in your shadowboxing and you'll just push harder. 0.98

00:38:25.000 You'll feel it.

00:38:25.000 But I don't want to give the haters too much credit.

00:38:28.000 Well, it's all you.

00:38:29.000 I don't want to give the haters too much credit.

00:38:31.000 Well, they gave you fuel, though.

00:38:32.000 But it was weird, though.

00:38:33.000 And I don't even know how to quantify.

00:38:35.000 I don't even know how to explain it.

00:38:36.000 But early in my career, they got a lot more credit.

00:38:42.000 And I got great mentors, man.

00:38:46.000 My pastor, Napoleon Kaufman, former raider.

00:38:49.000 He's a great man of God.

00:38:50.000 Just a great, great man.

00:38:52.000 I would always call him like, man, pastor, man, they're hating on me.

00:38:55.000 And he'd be like, listen son, listen, stop giving these people all this credit, man.

00:39:00.000 He said, listen man, they got...

00:39:02.000 They can't do anything to you unless God allows them.

00:39:05.000 Stay focused on what you got to do.

00:39:07.000 So I started to get it as I evolved in my pro career and as I started to mature as a man.

00:39:12.000 So I knew they were there.

00:39:14.000 That element was always going to be there, but I started letting that element work for me.

00:39:17.000 I wouldn't just be enamored with it and I wouldn't just sit there and read comments and stuff.

00:39:24.000 Frankly, the last three or four years of my career, I didn't read a mention of Not one mention on Twitter.

00:39:30.000 I didn't look at comments on Instagram.

00:39:32.000 Every now and again, something would slip through.

00:39:33.000 But I knew they were there.

00:39:35.000 And I knew generally what was being said.

00:39:37.000 I knew generally what the articles in the headline would read.

00:39:40.000 So it was there.

00:39:42.000 But the real driving force was the people that were writing for me, fighting for me, supporting me, believing in me.

00:39:48.000 That element was there.

00:39:49.000 And I was going to address that element through my performance.

00:39:52.000 But I don't want to give them too much credit, though.

00:39:55.000 They don't deserve that much.

00:39:56.000 No, they don't deserve that much credit.

00:39:57.000 But they're good.

00:39:58.000 They're good to have.

00:39:59.000 There's something there.

00:40:00.000 But you were very wise in the way you managed their influence by not reading those comments.

00:40:05.000 Not all the time, but I got the revelation, like I said, at a certain point.

00:40:08.000 Like, man, I'm done with this, bro.

00:40:09.000 I'm not doing this.

00:40:10.000 I only started to read comments again.

00:40:13.000 Frankly, I didn't watch boxing for the past three or four years of my career.

00:40:17.000 Really?

00:40:18.000 And I'm a boxing buff.

00:40:20.000 Why didn't you watch?

00:40:22.000 I was burnt out.

00:40:24.000 The opinions.

00:40:25.000 The biased.

00:40:27.000 The double standards.

00:40:29.000 Good stuff too, but I was just burnt.

00:40:31.000 And it was so weird for me because I'm the guy that would break his neck to go watch Tuesday night Gillette fights as a kid.

00:40:37.000 Like, dude, I gotta get back.

00:40:38.000 Dude, you don't even know who's fighting.

00:40:39.000 It doesn't matter.

00:40:40.000 It's two guys in the ring.

00:40:41.000 I'm watching it.

00:40:42.000 Friday night fights for many years.

00:40:44.000 I was over it.

00:40:45.000 Going through what I went through with the lawsuit.

00:40:47.000 Going through what I went through with the injuries.

00:40:49.000 The highs and lows and everything in between.

00:40:50.000 I was just burnt out.

00:40:52.000 Out.

00:40:53.000 Can you refresh my memory?

00:40:54.000 The lawsuit was a promotion lawsuit.

00:40:56.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:40:57.000 It was a, you know, I can't get too much into it, but it was just something that, man, I just, I fought for myself.

00:41:02.000 And, you know, but it was a long two-year journey.

00:41:08.000 On my best day, I'm like, you're doing the right thing, son.

00:41:11.000 Stay in the race.

00:41:12.000 Keep fighting.

00:41:13.000 It may not be going your way now, but just stay, like, you're not fighting.

00:41:17.000 Money's not coming in, but just stay the course.

00:41:19.000 You're doing the right thing.

00:41:20.000 On my worst day, I'm like, bro, You're blowing it.

00:41:23.000 You're getting rushed on you.

00:41:24.000 You know, people are writing, I would rather fight in the courtroom than fight in the ring.

00:41:28.000 And I'm like, dude, that's not it.

00:41:29.000 I'm just trying to fight for what I believe is true.

00:41:31.000 But I grew up a lot.

00:41:33.000 But coming out of that, I was like, man, I'm done with all that stuff, man.

00:41:37.000 Like, I don't know how many years I got left in this sport, but I'm not focused on y'all.

00:41:41.000 I got to focus on me.

00:41:42.000 And it wasn't until I retired and got full time into broadcasting and commentating that I started to watch again.

00:41:49.000 I started to You know, understand who was out there on the, you know, in the landscape and researching it.

00:41:53.000 But I didn't watch it for many years.

00:41:55.000 That's crazy.

00:41:56.000 Yeah, I was done.

00:41:56.000 It makes sense.

00:41:57.000 I mean, you probably in your early days were so hungry for boxing because you had so much desire that you wanted to watch it all the time.

00:42:04.000 Excuse me.

00:42:05.000 The amount of effort required to become a champion.

00:42:08.000 But you don't see the behind the scenes, though.

00:42:10.000 Then you grow up and you see the business side.

00:42:13.000 And you see the dark side and it's like, it's different.

00:42:17.000 The darkness.

00:42:18.000 The dark side.

00:42:19.000 Yeah, there's a lot of that, man, in boxing.

00:42:21.000 I mean, it's historical.

00:42:22.000 The Don King, Mike Tyson stories.

00:42:24.000 I mean, there's so many stories.

00:42:27.000 And Don King, Muhammad Ali.

00:42:29.000 There's so many stories like that.

00:42:31.000 It's so sad.

00:42:33.000 It's an awful side of the business.

00:42:34.000 It is.

00:42:37.000 Now, was this before or after the Super 6 tournament?

00:42:41.000 Which one?

00:42:41.000 That all this was going on with the lawsuits.

00:42:43.000 It was after.

00:42:44.000 Shortly after.

00:42:44.000 So the Super 6 tournament, though, was where people knew you were an Olympic gold medalist, but that was where, like, coming into that, who was the favorite?

00:42:53.000 Yeah.

00:42:55.000 The favorite was kind of like threefold, but it was Kessler.

00:43:00.000 Arthur Abraham was dominant at 160. He had just moved up to 68, so everybody felt like it was a foregone conclusion that he was going to dominate at the heavier weight class.

00:43:09.000 Carl Frotch was the WBC champion, but he was still kind of like relatively unknown.

00:43:13.000 Like, you know, he had potential, had a belt, but, you know, he was probably, you know, I don't know, the third favorite.

00:43:19.000 And then you had...

00:43:22.000 Andre Durrell.

00:43:23.000 Obviously, you had myself and you had Jermaine Taylor.

00:43:26.000 And the Americans, or at least this is how I viewed it, we were just there to make it interesting.

00:43:31.000 It wasn't about us.

00:43:33.000 It was the Europeans party.

00:43:35.000 And it's funny because I almost didn't fight in a tournament.

00:43:39.000 I was in Mexico on vacation.

00:43:42.000 And I've been hearing about the Super 6s.

00:43:45.000 But internally, me and my manager, he was like, I don't think these things will come together.

00:43:49.000 These guys are fighting.

00:43:50.000 Hey, man, go enjoy your vacation.

00:43:52.000 So I did that.

00:43:53.000 I flew into San Diego.

00:43:55.000 We drove to Mexico.

00:43:57.000 And I ended up getting like a double ear infection.

00:44:00.000 I was messed up.

00:44:01.000 From the ocean?

00:44:03.000 Probably.

00:44:03.000 Just something like that.

00:44:04.000 Yeah, it just kind of came upon me.

00:44:05.000 I don't know.

00:44:06.000 I don't exactly know the origin of it.

00:44:08.000 So I'm like, I had a little bit of internet access.

00:44:10.000 I'm looking at stuff.

00:44:11.000 I'm like, these guys are like, wait, they're doing a kickoff press conference in New York.

00:44:15.000 So I called James.

00:44:16.000 I'm like, Jay, what's up?

00:44:17.000 He was like, hey, man, you need to get there like ASAP, bro.

00:44:20.000 This thing's going down.

00:44:21.000 I'm like, whoa.

00:44:22.000 I'm like, you told me it wasn't going to happen.

00:44:23.000 He's like, I didn't think it was.

00:44:26.000 But he was also like, you know what, though?

00:44:29.000 If you don't want to go, it's all good.

00:44:30.000 We'll figure it out.

00:44:32.000 So I'm like, man, I don't want to go.

00:44:33.000 I'm just with my family.

00:44:34.000 I called Verge.

00:44:36.000 I give him the whole spiel.

00:44:37.000 It's probably like two, three times in my life he's had this kind of tone.

00:44:40.000 He was like, listen, son, you need to get on a plane.

00:44:44.000 You're not going to make the New York press conference.

00:44:46.000 The next stop is Germany, Arthur Abraham's home country.

00:44:49.000 Get there.

00:44:50.000 I'm like, man, I'm with my family.

00:44:52.000 Give him the whole spiel.

00:44:53.000 He said, get there.

00:44:54.000 So we pack up, we drive two or three hours to San Diego, get on a flight, drive my family back to the Bay Area, boom, drop them off, get on a flight of Red Eye that night, double ear infection, wake up in Germany, and that was their second stop, but that was my first stop.

00:45:08.000 And that's when I really got the revelation that, man, this is a joke.

00:45:12.000 They think that me, Darrell, and Taylor, we're just going to...

00:45:16.000 That's when I took exception and I was when I really kind of like realized the dude like this is either this is gonna be a sink or swim moment for you either you gonna get like I could have got ruined in the super six like it could have went a whole nother way or What I knew was in me was gonna be you know displayed and shown to the world and so when you beat Kessler and you won your first title that had to be a beautiful moment unreal unreal unreal and it was in my hometown Like

00:45:47.000 the same arena, Oracle Arena, where the Warriors have played for many, many years.

00:45:50.000 And I'm kind of salty.

00:45:51.000 They're leaving, man.

00:45:52.000 They're going to chase arena.

00:45:53.000 I'm not happy, man.

00:45:54.000 I'm not happy.

00:45:56.000 I used to pass by that arena on Highway 880 going to King's Gym.

00:46:00.000 And I used to look, and it'd be on the right side.

00:46:02.000 And I'd be like, man, Virgil, I wonder if I'm going to fight there one day.

00:46:05.000 He said, baby, fight there.

00:46:06.000 You're going to headline.

00:46:07.000 I was like, really?

00:46:08.000 I'm talking 12, 13 years old.

00:46:10.000 Wow.

00:46:12.000 I'm like, man, I'm a headline?

00:46:14.000 And Kessler's arrogance allowed that fight to take place in my hometown.

00:46:19.000 He had more knockouts than I had victories.

00:46:22.000 I'm not even going to beat him.

00:46:24.000 I'm going to beat him in his hometown.

00:46:26.000 So we fought there.

00:46:27.000 I think it was November 19th.

00:46:29.000 And just unreal, man.

00:46:31.000 And for a gold medalist, people don't understand the pressure you have coming into the game.

00:46:37.000 Everything you do well, you're expected to do well, but if there's one slip-up, now it's like everybody comes out the woodworks.

00:46:43.000 I told you he wasn't going to be there.

00:46:44.000 So to get the monkey off my back to win my first title, that release of pressure was just immense.

00:46:52.000 I remember when I was a kid, when the Olympic team had so many guys that went on to win world champions, like Pernell Whitaker.

00:46:59.000 Was it the 76th Olympic team?

00:47:01.000 84. Pernell Whitaker, Mark Breland.

00:47:05.000 There was so many guys from that era.

00:47:09.000 That was Meldrick Taylor.

00:47:12.000 Who else?

00:47:13.000 Who else?

00:47:14.000 Holyfield was there, but I think Holyfield got disqualified.

00:47:16.000 He got a silver.

00:47:17.000 Right.

00:47:18.000 Something happened.

00:47:19.000 When you think about the amount of pressure that, I mean, so many people were looking at those guys.

00:47:26.000 And I remember when Breland lost to Marlon Starling.

00:47:29.000 We got knocked up by Marlon Starling.

00:47:30.000 I remember so many people were happy.

00:47:32.000 They were happy that he lost.

00:47:33.000 Like, ah, another Olympic gold medalist.

00:47:36.000 You know, he couldn't take him. 1.00

00:47:37.000 God, first of all, goddamn, Marlon Starling was a fucking killer. 1.00

00:47:41.000 He was a killer and a super slick. 1.00

00:47:43.000 Yep.

00:47:43.000 You know, just a real seasoned knockout artist and an excellent boxer.

00:47:48.000 You know, I mean, it wasn't...

00:47:50.000 That's just a great boxer beat another great boxer.

00:47:54.000 But there was a weird feeling to it.

00:47:56.000 Like, people were happy that Breland lost.

00:47:59.000 I was like, wow, this is...

00:48:00.000 That's crazy pressure.

00:48:02.000 It's different.

00:48:03.000 Yeah.

00:48:03.000 It's different.

00:48:04.000 And people talk about pressure all the time.

00:48:06.000 Like, how'd you deal with this?

00:48:07.000 How'd you deal with that?

00:48:08.000 Yeah.

00:48:08.000 I credit my faith in God and just feeling like there was a purpose for me to be in the game as the foundational reason.

00:48:14.000 But the practical reason was I've been dealing with pressure since I've been a baby.

00:48:20.000 Having two parents who were drug addicted at a young age, and one is a functional addict, and my dad, who raised me as a single parent, and then my mother was a full-blown addict for many, many years.

00:48:32.000 She's clean now.

00:48:32.000 She's doing good.

00:48:34.000 Like, that's pressure.

00:48:35.000 Started there.

00:48:36.000 Then, like, coming up throughout the ranks and, like, dealing with haters and all this stuff in the gym, in your private gym.

00:48:42.000 Well, not private gym, but the gym that you train at.

00:48:45.000 And you got some people that are with you.

00:48:48.000 Man, this kid's going to be the next.

00:48:49.000 And you got some people over there in the corner mumbling.

00:48:51.000 That kid ain't going to be nothing.

00:48:53.000 He's all right.

00:48:54.000 Like, you learn to deal with that stuff then.

00:48:56.000 Then go into the national tournaments.

00:48:58.000 You're dealing with people from all over the U.S. Then you go into the world tournaments.

00:49:01.000 Like, that's pressure.

00:49:02.000 Then you get to a point, so when I fought a guy like Sergey Kovalev, I'd already seen him before.

00:49:07.000 I'd fought Kovalev 15, 20 times in my career already.

00:49:10.000 The big, you know, menacing guy who everybody's afraid of.

00:49:14.000 Like, I've fought him before.

00:49:15.000 I fought him in the Olympics.

00:49:17.000 I fought three Russians in the Olympics.

00:49:19.000 So it wasn't that, oh, I'm guaranteed to win, but I had seen that before.

00:49:23.000 Even the critics and all the people.

00:49:25.000 Like, I've been dealing with this stuff my whole life.

00:49:29.000 And it wasn't anything new.

00:49:32.000 Does it feel good?

00:49:33.000 Absolutely not.

00:49:34.000 I mean, your hope is that everybody supports you.

00:49:36.000 But, you know, as successful as this podcast is...

00:49:39.000 You got your boo birds.

00:49:41.000 You have your critics.

00:49:42.000 Boo birds.

00:49:43.000 I never heard them talk like that.

00:49:44.000 Boo birds.

00:49:45.000 Boo birds.

00:49:45.000 You got people that as soon as you slip up, I knew he was going to.

00:49:49.000 That's part of the game, man.

00:49:50.000 Yeah.

00:49:51.000 That must have enhanced your relationship with Virgil.

00:49:54.000 It must have.

00:49:55.000 Yeah.

00:49:55.000 Because he believed in you.

00:49:56.000 Yeah, of course. 0.97

00:49:56.000 When you fought for the world title in that very arena where he said you were going to be headlining when you were like 12, 13 years old, what the fuck was that like? 0.97

00:50:05.000 That must have been amazing.

00:50:07.000 It's surreal, man.

00:50:07.000 You're just trying to manage your emotions.

00:50:09.000 I remember the night before the fight, I had my guy, Jack, Edward Jackson, man, who's a great coach, great assistant, great strength and conditioning coach, boxing coach from Houston, Texas.

00:50:19.000 He'd been with me from day one.

00:50:22.000 I said, man, I got to get out of the room, man.

00:50:24.000 We drove to Trader Joe's just to get some Clif bars.

00:50:28.000 I just needed to clear my head.

00:50:30.000 And I remember talking to my Uncle Bob, who was my dad's best friend.

00:50:34.000 He wasn't my blood uncle, but he's basically like an uncle to me.

00:50:37.000 Huge boxing fan.

00:50:38.000 I remember just talking to him.

00:50:40.000 And I'm saying, baby, tomorrow's your day.

00:50:42.000 I'm going to be there front row, baby.

00:50:44.000 Tomorrow's your day.

00:50:45.000 Your dad always dreamed about this moment.

00:50:47.000 And just tears running down my eyes because I was just feeling the pressure.

00:50:51.000 I'm like, dude, I'm getting ready to fight for a world title at home.

00:50:56.000 The pressure, you can cut it with a knife.

00:50:59.000 But to be able to bear up under it and to go get it done, bro.

00:51:05.000 Unreal.

00:51:06.000 Unreal.

00:51:07.000 You couldn't script it any better.

00:51:10.000 Was the second fight with Kovalev your second most satisfying fight?

00:51:16.000 I liked the first one better.

00:51:18.000 The first fight better?

00:51:19.000 Really?

00:51:19.000 Because you managed to survive and come back and then start out pointing out.

00:51:23.000 I just got it a different way.

00:51:26.000 I got it a different way.

00:51:27.000 And...

00:51:29.000 That's crazy that you like that fight better.

00:51:31.000 That's interesting.

00:51:32.000 That says a lot about you.

00:51:33.000 Yeah, I love the moment with me and Verge in the corner.

00:51:36.000 He showed his worth.

00:51:37.000 I already knew what he had, but he showed his worth.

00:51:39.000 He said, baby, listen.

00:51:41.000 Ali's been knocked down.

00:51:42.000 Sugar Ray's been knocked down.

00:51:44.000 They got up.

00:51:45.000 Now you get up.

00:51:47.000 Those are moments you live for.

00:51:48.000 You don't want to be on the canvas, but if you happen to find yourself there, you want to know that your team has what it takes, and you want to know that you have what it takes.

00:51:55.000 I was a second round, bro.

00:51:57.000 I clawed back 10 rounds against that guy.

00:52:01.000 The biggest night of my life.

00:52:03.000 And then having to deal with everything afterward.

00:52:07.000 It built me, man.

00:52:08.000 It made me strong.

00:52:09.000 Like, stronger.

00:52:10.000 And...

00:52:14.000 I won the second fight again with the first fight.

00:52:17.000 I already broke him in the first fight.

00:52:20.000 Something happened to him.

00:52:21.000 Right around the sixth round, he was still trying to win to a degree, but I knew physically.

00:52:25.000 I was like, man, I got him.

00:52:27.000 He's not the same.

00:52:28.000 Of course, he's going to whine about the decision because it didn't go his way, but I beat him in the first fight.

00:52:35.000 The second fight was the window dressing.

00:52:37.000 We just picked up where we left off.

00:52:39.000 But everything that transpired in the second fight really started in the first fight.

00:52:42.000 The second fight, it was stunning to me when it seemed like he just quit.

00:52:48.000 Because it didn't seem like...

00:52:50.000 I mean, it almost seemed like a premature stoppage.

00:52:53.000 But then you realize that he didn't want to fight any longer.

00:52:55.000 Tony Wiggs did a great job.

00:52:56.000 He saved a couple of times.

00:52:57.000 He did.

00:52:58.000 I mean, you know, in hindsight...

00:53:00.000 You know, you wish you would have landed the one shot and he went, you know, he got knocked out and it was clear.

00:53:04.000 But listen, man, all the excuses and stuff, like I was thinking about this the other day.

00:53:10.000 Every big win that I've had, there was an excuse attached to it.

00:53:14.000 So you go back to Kessler.

00:53:16.000 Oh, he headbutt me. 0.98

00:53:17.000 He's fighting dirty.

00:53:19.000 No, I'm fighting in a style that you don't know how to deal with.

00:53:23.000 If you look at Carl Frotch.

00:53:24.000 Oh, it was boring.

00:53:26.000 Why didn't you make it more interesting?

00:53:28.000 Yeah.

00:53:29.000 You look at Chad Dawson.

00:53:30.000 Oh, he was weight drained.

00:53:31.000 Chad Dawson called me out.

00:53:33.000 I was at home minding my own business, and he said, I want to fight Andre Ward.

00:53:37.000 I'll come down to his weight, and I'll fight him in Oakland.

00:53:41.000 You look at Kessler.

00:53:42.000 I mean, you look at Kovalev.

00:53:43.000 First fight, I got robbed.

00:53:45.000 Second fight, they cheated me.

00:53:46.000 Come on, y'all.

00:53:48.000 Every big win that Andre Ward has cannot have an asterisk next to it.

00:53:54.000 Either I'm not the guy that...

00:53:56.000 My record says that I am or somebody's not being honest over here.

00:54:00.000 You see what I'm saying?

00:54:01.000 But don't you think that's inherent with boxing when there's certain people that don't ever want to accept defeat no matter what and when there's a situation where there's a possible reason why they lost that didn't sort of fit into the rule books like he hit me low or they stopped it too soon or the Kovalev fight you know like the second fight in particular like the first fight maybe he could make an argument That he thinks he should have won a decision, but the second fight.

00:54:27.000 I mean, he wasn't jumping up, looking to beat that eight count, dust his gloves off, and get back at it.

00:54:33.000 He was basically surrendering.

00:54:37.000 He was done, man.

00:54:37.000 Those body shots were for...

00:54:39.000 Just everything.

00:54:39.000 People forget about the right hand that started all the trouble.

00:54:42.000 Yes.

00:54:42.000 Where he did the funny dance and then the 15 unanswered shots after that.

00:54:48.000 And I would probably say out of the body shots that landed, maybe one straight a little low.

00:54:52.000 But again, bro, your name is the crusher.

00:54:55.000 If you hit me low, and I try to be as fair as I possibly can, I'm coming to get that back, bro.

00:55:00.000 If I feel like it's intentional, if it's an accident, it's all good.

00:55:04.000 It happens.

00:55:05.000 But if you're trying to dethrone me or beat me from a foul, I'm coming to get that back.

00:55:10.000 Why all of a sudden, all the people that said that you're not going to beat Kovalev, look what he did to this guy, he's going to do the same thing to you, you're too small.

00:55:19.000 Those are the same people coming to the rescue of a guy whose nickname is a crusher and who's menacing and all the stuff I've been saying.

00:55:26.000 He should be able to defend himself.

00:55:28.000 He should be able to get me off of him.

00:55:29.000 A little guy that just moved up from 168?

00:55:32.000 A little old me?

00:55:34.000 Well, the thing about Kovalev, too, he killed a guy early in his career, right?

00:55:38.000 Yeah.

00:55:38.000 And that was something that, you know, there's a feeling when a guy's done that.

00:55:45.000 There's a fear to facing that guy.

00:55:48.000 And I had to face that fear.

00:55:49.000 I had to face that fear.

00:55:50.000 I'm human.

00:55:52.000 So that was presented to me.

00:55:54.000 But that's where the mindset comes into play.

00:55:56.000 That's where my faith comes into play.

00:55:57.000 It's like, listen, man, unfortunately that happened to that guy, but you ain't doing that to me.

00:56:02.000 That's the mindset part.

00:56:04.000 If you allow that stuff to seep in, take root, and start to fester in your heart and your mind, you'll never get past the starting line.

00:56:13.000 You'll go out there and be like, man, who was that dude that was performing that night?

00:56:16.000 That wasn't me.

00:56:18.000 He was going to have to do something to me because I was coming to win, man.

00:56:21.000 And again, it's not that I'm just, I'm not the toughest guy in the world, but I just believed what I believed.

00:56:26.000 I felt like I was there for a reason.

00:56:28.000 And unfortunately, that happened to that young man, but I just didn't believe that was going to happen to me.

00:56:33.000 And that's what I had to keep feeding myself in order to get past that and then go perform.

00:56:37.000 Now, how did you make the decision?

00:56:39.000 You stop him in the second fight.

00:56:40.000 How did you make the decision that that's it?

00:56:42.000 It was almost it for me after the first fight.

00:56:45.000 Really?

00:56:46.000 Yeah.

00:56:46.000 That's the closest I've ever...

00:56:48.000 I've talked retirement in the past, like internally with my wife and stuff.

00:56:54.000 But after the first fight, I don't know if it was...

00:56:57.000 I think it was physical, like all the surgeries and rehab and just the years of fighting.

00:57:02.000 How many different surgeries did you have?

00:57:03.000 About three.

00:57:04.000 All on the shoulder?

00:57:05.000 Not shoulders, knee, yeah.

00:57:07.000 Meniscus or something?

00:57:09.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:57:09.000 I had one ACL, one meniscus.

00:57:10.000 Yeah.

00:57:14.000 I think it was the physical part.

00:57:15.000 I think it was just the toll of the sport.

00:57:18.000 And then maybe some of the reaction.

00:57:21.000 Like, you know, for a split second, I'm like, here we go again.

00:57:24.000 Like, it's always something, you know.

00:57:26.000 I beat the guy that you guys say I couldn't beat.

00:57:28.000 Now, you know.

00:57:30.000 People feel like I got robbed.

00:57:31.000 Like, that's a fight that could have went either way.

00:57:33.000 You know, by a point or two.

00:57:34.000 You can't have a polarizing opinion about it.

00:57:37.000 You may say, man, I thought Ward lost.

00:57:38.000 I can live with that.

00:57:39.000 But all the robbed stuff.

00:57:41.000 So I think it was a combination of just everything.

00:57:43.000 I was like, man, I'm done, man.

00:57:45.000 I'm not doing this no more.

00:57:46.000 I didn't do anything for three months after that fight.

00:57:49.000 I remember going to speak to my pastor about it because he did the same thing.

00:57:53.000 He was all everything at UW, played six years in the league, and all of a sudden, boom, one day he was like, I'm done, and never looked back.

00:58:00.000 So I went and sat with him, and I was like, man, pastor, I don't know, man.

00:58:04.000 I think I'm done.

00:58:05.000 He's just listening.

00:58:06.000 Very wise man.

00:58:08.000 So I'm giving him the whole spiel.

00:58:10.000 I'm like, man, I haven't done it in three months.

00:58:11.000 I've never done that.

00:58:12.000 That's got to be a sign.

00:58:13.000 I'm done.

00:58:13.000 He said, you know what, son?

00:58:15.000 He said, I think you'll be fine if you retire.

00:58:19.000 I think you got one more left in you.

00:58:21.000 I remember just, I thought he was gonna side with me.

00:58:24.000 I thought he was going to be like, yeah, son, that's it.

00:58:26.000 And I was a little disappointed.

00:58:28.000 Honestly, I was like, really?

00:58:31.000 I was like, yeah, but I told you I hadn't done anything in three months.

00:58:33.000 He was like, I know, I know, I know.

00:58:34.000 He said, once you get going, you know, the fire will be rekindled.

00:58:38.000 Wow.

00:58:38.000 So I took him at his word and I started to kind of get back going, moving my body.

00:58:43.000 And then that happened.

00:58:45.000 I started to get that fire back.

00:58:46.000 And once we got the money right, I was like, I'm going to do it again.

00:58:51.000 Boom.

00:58:51.000 Won the fight.

00:58:53.000 And I didn't know for sure, but I was kind of feeling like, okay, well, you know, I felt like that after the first one.

00:58:58.000 This may be it after the second one.

00:59:00.000 But then the opportunity started coming.

00:59:03.000 HBO had a three-fight deal on the table.

00:59:05.000 And basically, it was going to be a gimme fight in Oakland at home, kind of a celebration.

00:59:10.000 A move to Cruiserweight against Tony Bellew, probably in the UK. Did you want to move to Cruiserweight?

00:59:15.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:59:15.000 It was nothing else.

00:59:16.000 I'd like heavyweight.

00:59:17.000 What about a rubber match that wasn't exciting for you?

00:59:20.000 No.

00:59:20.000 Beat him twice.

00:59:20.000 Did Kovalev ask for a rubber match?

00:59:22.000 No.

00:59:23.000 Really?

00:59:24.000 I mean, he would probably put...

00:59:25.000 If somebody asked him, like, you want a rematch?

00:59:27.000 Yes, of course.

00:59:27.000 He didn't want it.

00:59:28.000 He didn't really want it.

00:59:30.000 So, that was the three-fight exit strategy with HBO. Give me a fight at Light Heavy.

00:59:34.000 I was probably going to do a catchweight at home.

00:59:37.000 Cruiserweight.

00:59:37.000 What did you walk around at?

00:59:39.000 Back then?

00:59:39.000 Yeah.

00:59:41.000 About 85. So, you would have had to gain weight.

00:59:44.000 I'd have had to tighten myself up at 85, 90. Probably a little weight.

00:59:48.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:59:49.000 The cruise rate limit is 90?

00:59:50.000 It's 200. It's 200?

00:59:51.000 Yeah.

00:59:52.000 I probably wouldn't have got to two, though.

00:59:54.000 Probably would have been about 190, 192, something like that.

00:59:57.000 So that was a three-fight deal.

00:59:58.000 And the third fight was going to be Anthony Joshua.

01:00:00.000 Don't know if it would have been made.

01:00:02.000 We hadn't even gotten that far, but that was our plan.

01:00:04.000 Jesus Christ.

01:00:06.000 Right?

01:00:06.000 How much would you have gained to get up to heavyweight?

01:00:10.000 Maybe two.

01:00:12.000 That's it.

01:00:13.000 Maybe two.

01:00:14.000 I'm never going to be as big as you guys, so why would I weigh myself down?

01:00:17.000 Right.

01:00:18.000 Yeah.

01:00:18.000 Very dangerous situation, you know?

01:00:21.000 But that was something we were talking about.

01:00:22.000 And Verge mentioned it in the post-fight press conference with Kovalev. 0.99

01:00:25.000 That guy's fucking gigantic. 0.97

01:00:26.000 But me and Verge hadn't talked about it. 0.99

01:00:28.000 Like, we talked about it, but we didn't say we were going to mention anything publicly.

01:00:32.000 Oh, and then he came out with it?

01:00:33.000 And I'm sitting there, you know, I'm chilling.

01:00:34.000 I just won.

01:00:35.000 He's like, yeah, we want Anthony Joshua.

01:00:36.000 I'm like...

01:00:39.000 Chill, bro.

01:00:40.000 He's so much bigger than you.

01:00:42.000 Yeah, it's all good, though.

01:00:43.000 That guy's gigantic.

01:00:44.000 I've been fighting big guys my whole life.

01:00:46.000 I'm sure you have.

01:00:47.000 So the three-fight deal was on the table.

01:00:50.000 And Roman Gonzalez, Saritsukai, Soren Visai were getting ready to fight their rematch at the Home Depot Center.

01:01:00.000 I think it was September 9th.

01:01:03.000 September 6th, that was a Wednesday.

01:01:05.000 I was supposed to be in LA to announce the new signing and get ready to call that fight.

01:01:11.000 That Wednesday, I come home and I'm kind of like, I'm not boo-hooing, but I'm in tears.

01:01:16.000 And I tell my wife, I was like, I don't want to do it anymore.

01:01:20.000 And even saying that sounded crazy to me.

01:01:23.000 She was like, she was just real quiet.

01:01:24.000 I'm thinking like, why is she not saying nothing?

01:01:26.000 I was like, I don't think I'm going to do this anymore.

01:01:29.000 And she said something she had never said previously.

01:01:31.000 Typically, she's like, babe, look, it's not time.

01:01:34.000 Come on, you got to get up.

01:01:35.000 I know you feel this way.

01:01:36.000 I know you're back, but come on.

01:01:37.000 I feel like you still got time in the sport.

01:01:39.000 First time she ever agreed with me, she was like, I think the decision is already made, Dre.

01:01:44.000 I was like, what?

01:01:46.000 She said, I think the decision is already made.

01:01:47.000 She said, I've been looking at you throughout this whole day and some of the stuff you've been saying and I've never really seen you like this.

01:01:53.000 She said, I think it's already made.

01:01:55.000 I took that out, bro.

01:01:57.000 Started making phone calls.

01:01:58.000 Called my lawyer who's, you know, one of my good friends, Josh Dubin.

01:02:02.000 I said, hey, bro, I think that may be it for me.

01:02:04.000 And he had been wanting me to be, you know, done.

01:02:06.000 He was like, if you feel that way, bro, I'm going to support you.

01:02:08.000 Called my manager the next morning.

01:02:10.000 And it took us.

01:02:11.000 So I went that weekend and called the fight.

01:02:14.000 We held off on the announcement.

01:02:16.000 And my lawyer just told HBO, like, look, he's going through some things.

01:02:19.000 We're good.

01:02:20.000 Give us a couple of days.

01:02:21.000 So I got through that weekend.

01:02:23.000 And he said, do you still feel like that come Monday morning?

01:02:25.000 I was like, bro, I think I'm done.

01:02:26.000 Long story short.

01:02:28.000 We ended up announcing it September 21st.

01:02:30.000 It was like a two-week period.

01:02:32.000 We were trying to keep it under wraps.

01:02:33.000 But I was undoing all the stuff.

01:02:34.000 I was letting the necessary people know.

01:02:36.000 Roc Nation, HBO, everybody know.

01:02:38.000 And the night before I announced it, man, me and my good friend, who's a director, he's also directing my doc, Deontay Thompson, we put together this video.

01:02:49.000 It was like a legacy video where I had my young son, my middle son, and my oldest son.

01:02:54.000 And those were like, you know, that was me at that point in time in my career.

01:02:58.000 And we did this whole video that I was going to announce my retirement with.

01:03:02.000 And I actually have the doc that I'm working on right now.

01:03:05.000 It's about this.

01:03:06.000 Like, why did the best fighter of the world at that time walk away from the sport on top?

01:03:11.000 Shot that video out, man.

01:03:13.000 The day of my retirement, bro.

01:03:14.000 And the response was just overwhelming.

01:03:16.000 You know, it was overwhelming.

01:03:17.000 Like, I just couldn't believe the amount of people that were reaching out.

01:03:20.000 And it was like good and bad.

01:03:22.000 Like, it was good because I was getting support.

01:03:23.000 But it felt like somebody died.

01:03:25.000 Like, I felt like I died, bro.

01:03:27.000 I'm looking at these rest in peace, like, not literal rest in peace, but, like, the comments were, like, rest in peace, like, bro, are you, I couldn't believe, man, I'm, what, like, Ward, not you, man, oh my god, man, and it was just, it was, like, just this huge reaction, and it was overwhelming,

01:03:44.000 and in the two years that followed, Like I said at the beginning of this podcast, harder than I thought it was going to be, one of the hardest, if not the hardest thing I've ever had to do and still have to do.

01:03:59.000 It's a daily decision to be like, I'm not doing it no more.

01:04:02.000 But one of the most rewarding, man.

01:04:04.000 And it was a necessary evil.

01:04:06.000 And I hope that one day, man, the young guys can look up one day and say, man, I'm going to do the Andre Ward.

01:04:11.000 I'm done.

01:04:12.000 I'm out.

01:04:13.000 Like, how long do we have to do it before we feel satisfied?

01:04:16.000 Look, bro, save your money.

01:04:17.000 If you're not financially literate, go get some help.

01:04:22.000 Ask questions.

01:04:23.000 And as soon as you feel like you're not really there, you don't want to do it no more, right off in the sunset, bro.

01:04:28.000 There's other stuff you can do.

01:04:29.000 I hope to be an example in that area.

01:04:31.000 Well, it's so important, I think, for there to be a guy like you because people always have this narrative, fighters always come back.

01:04:39.000 They always fight like Sugar Ray Leonard did when he fought later in his career.

01:04:45.000 Terry Norris.

01:04:46.000 Donnie Lalonde, but then he went and fought.

01:04:49.000 Yeah, the Terry Norris fight was hard to watch, man.

01:04:51.000 And then Hector Camacho stopped him.

01:04:54.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:04:55.000 Camacho couldn't punch either. 0.92

01:04:57.000 It was when his calf was all fucked up back then and Billy Blanks was training him. 0.95

01:05:01.000 You remember that? 0.78

01:05:01.000 I mean, it's just sad when you see these guys just still try to do it over and over and over again until the same story keeps repeating itself. 0.78

01:05:11.000 When a guy like you, it was only Hagler before you.

01:05:15.000 Hagler was the only guy.

01:05:16.000 Lennox Lewis too.

01:05:17.000 Oh, that's true.

01:05:18.000 Lennox Lewis.

01:05:18.000 But it's a handful.

01:05:19.000 Yeah, it's a handful.

01:05:20.000 Yeah.

01:05:21.000 Yeah, Lennox Lewis is a brilliant guy, too.

01:05:22.000 He plays chaffs. 1.00

01:05:24.000 He's articulate.

01:05:26.000 He's an interesting, intelligent guy that just said, eh, we're good.

01:05:31.000 We did everything we need to do.

01:05:32.000 We did everything we need to do. 0.99

01:05:34.000 Having those guys like you is so important for young fighters because they get told by the assholes, hey, all fighters are going to wind up with brain damage. 0.98

01:05:44.000 All fighters are going to wind up going out on their back. 0.97

01:05:46.000 They're all going to wind up coming back after their prime.

01:05:49.000 It's so important for guys like you to say, you know, no, you can manage it correctly.

01:05:55.000 These are shark-infested waters.

01:05:57.000 But if you stay on the rocks and you do your due diligence and you put in the work and your discipline and you fight correctly, I agree with you so wholeheartedly about appreciation of the masters.

01:06:09.000 Of a real masterful boxer.

01:06:10.000 When I always talk to people about Floyd Mayweather, they talk all this shit, he does this, he does that, he's got all this money. 0.98

01:06:15.000 I go, save all that. 0.99

01:06:16.000 Forget about his talking.

01:06:17.000 Watch how that guy fights. 0.99

01:06:19.000 He fucking barely gets hit. 0.99

01:06:21.000 He's been rocked maybe twice in his whole career. 0.99

01:06:25.000 Maidana and Sugar Shane Mosley.

01:06:28.000 Those are the only two.

01:06:29.000 The only two guys who cracked him.

01:06:31.000 And he wound up winning both those fights.

01:06:33.000 He's a master.

01:06:35.000 Masterful boxer.

01:06:36.000 And that's what everybody should emulate.

01:06:39.000 I mean, I love the Arturo Gotti, Mickey Ward fights as much as anybody did.

01:06:43.000 But if that was my son... 0.72

01:06:45.000 I'd be freaking the fuck out. 0.97

01:06:47.000 I'd be like, don't fight like that. 0.84

01:06:49.000 It's not worth it. 1.00

01:06:50.000 I don't give a fuck how many of these drunken assholes cheer you on. 1.00

01:06:53.000 They're not gonna be with you when you wake up in the morning, your head is pounding in your head, when you have a hard time looking at light, when you have to have all the shades closed, when just a little crack of light coming in through the shade is hurting you. 1.00

01:07:05.000 It's giving you a headache.

01:07:07.000 They're not going to be there with you when you're old.

01:07:09.000 Verge used to always put it like this, and this has shut a lot of people down.

01:07:11.000 He said, man, let me ask you a question.

01:07:12.000 He'd do this to reporters and stuff, like if there was an open workout.

01:07:15.000 He knew there was a particular reporter in there that was, you know, rah, rah, and, you know, talking down against, you know, guys who could box.

01:07:22.000 He said, let me ask you a question.

01:07:24.000 You got kids?

01:07:25.000 Yeah.

01:07:25.000 You got a son?

01:07:26.000 Absolutely.

01:07:28.000 If you wanted your son to box, and it was two guys at the gym, And one coach said, hey man, I'm going to teach your son how to hit and not get hit.

01:07:36.000 Period.

01:07:37.000 I know this art.

01:07:38.000 I've mastered it and I'm going to help him master it.

01:07:40.000 And then you got this guy over here that said, look man, he may have to take two to give one, but look, he's going to be tough.

01:07:46.000 He's going to be durable.

01:07:47.000 And who would you send your kid with?

01:07:50.000 And they go, ah, the first guy.

01:07:52.000 Well, there you have it.

01:07:54.000 Well, I think there's a false narrative, too.

01:07:56.000 Here's the false narrative, is that the guy who takes two to give one is tougher.

01:08:00.000 I think that's nonsense.

01:08:02.000 I think the guy who hits and doesn't get hit can be just as tough, if not tougher.

01:08:09.000 Yes, because it's harder.

01:08:10.000 It's not talked about.

01:08:11.000 Right.

01:08:12.000 It's a false narrative, to your point.

01:08:14.000 Yes, yes.

01:08:14.000 Like, my lazy days in the gym would be, man, I'm just going to fight today, bro.

01:08:19.000 I'm going to stand toe to toe and just get it in.

01:08:21.000 I'm tired physically.

01:08:23.000 I'm not trying to, you know, execute this game plan today.

01:08:26.000 I'm just going to try to keep a tight defense and just go to war. 0.95

01:08:28.000 Those are my, those are my, like, my lazy days.

01:08:32.000 When you got to, like, embody, like, A game plan and then round after round, even when things aren't going your way, try to stick to that game plan.

01:08:42.000 Bro, that's hard.

01:08:44.000 That's draining, right?

01:08:47.000 And this is something, again, that I've never said because I don't like talking about myself, man.

01:08:52.000 I try to stay out the way.

01:08:54.000 But, bro, I was one of the toughest fighters in the sport of boxing for the past 10 years when I was active.

01:09:01.000 Period.

01:09:02.000 No question about it.

01:09:04.000 It's just not talked about.

01:09:05.000 The chin's not talked about.

01:09:07.000 You know, the toughness part, because it's not really associated with the guy who can, you know, do it a certain way.

01:09:12.000 But if you really think about my big fights and the big guys that could punch, like, I didn't beat them by moving away.

01:09:18.000 I beat them by being in their wheelhouse.

01:09:21.000 Period.

01:09:21.000 And even Floyd.

01:09:23.000 People don't realize.

01:09:25.000 We'll highlight visible times that we saw Floyd get hit.

01:09:29.000 Man, you're getting buzzed and all kind of stuff is going on.

01:09:31.000 People don't even know.

01:09:33.000 But we're chameleons as fighters.

01:09:35.000 We have to be.

01:09:35.000 Because if we show weakness, now it's water and shark-infested water.

01:09:39.000 I mean, it's blood and shark-infested water.

01:09:41.000 Sure.

01:09:41.000 Even in the Conor McGregor fight, he got clipped with a big left uppercut.

01:09:44.000 Man, you get butt, bing, and you just tighten up.

01:09:47.000 And people think, oh, that wasn't a hard shot.

01:09:49.000 Yes, it was.

01:09:49.000 You just didn't know it.

01:09:50.000 Floyd has had to deal with that throughout the course of his career.

01:09:54.000 Many times that we didn't know.

01:09:56.000 I like how Floyd changed his style, too.

01:09:58.000 He has, too.

01:09:59.000 With the Pretty Boy Floyd style early in his career.

01:10:03.000 I mean, he was much more knockout-oriented.

01:10:05.000 He was much more aggressive, but he would get hit more then, too.

01:10:08.000 Yeah, he would.

01:10:08.000 And he also broke his hand a bunch of times, you know, and he just developed a smarter style.

01:10:14.000 But people don't remember those knockouts like when he you see that fight with a Japanese dude. 0.76

01:10:18.000 I had so many fucking arguments about that fight where they were trying to say that that was a very good fight. 0.93

01:10:23.000 That was a fixed fight. 1.00

01:10:23.000 I'm like, God damn it. 1.00

01:10:25.000 Listen to me. 1.00

01:10:25.000 That dude is 126 pounds. 1.00

01:10:27.000 He had no fucking business being in there with Floyd Mayweather ever, ever. 0.98

01:10:31.000 Forget about Conor McGregor. 0.99

01:10:32.000 Conor McGregor is a big man.

01:10:33.000 That's a tiny dude.

01:10:35.000 That dude is a 126-pound fighter. 0.97

01:10:37.000 He's fighting Floyd Mayweather, who's arguably the best boxer of all time, and Floyd doesn't even have to fucking train for that guy. 0.58

01:10:43.000 He came in there with a little bit of a belly, and he's just moving his arms around like this, smiling at him. 1.00

01:10:48.000 Hey, man, you fucked! 1.00

01:10:49.000 You had never seen Floyd look like that before, man. 1.00

01:10:52.000 But he won easy, and people were saying, oh, look at how the guy went down.

01:10:55.000 That's how it happens when a big man, who's a real, natural welterweight, hits a 126-pound fighter. 0.99

01:11:03.000 That's what the fuck happened. 0.98

01:11:04.000 And Floyd was trying to hurt him, too. 1.00

01:11:05.000 Yeah, he was trying to hurt him.

01:11:06.000 It's almost like Floyd, I don't know what the agreement was, but it was almost like, yeah, exhibition, wink, wink.

01:11:10.000 Yeah.

01:11:11.000 And Floyd's a competitor.

01:11:12.000 Yeah.

01:11:12.000 Like, unapologetically.

01:11:14.000 He's coming to win every time.

01:11:17.000 You could tell Floyd was opening up.

01:11:18.000 Floyd was trying to hurt him.

01:11:19.000 Do you think he's going to go about it again? 0.90

01:11:21.000 Because there's talk of other fighters, there's talk of, I mean, he goes through money like water, and he's got a fuckload of it, but goddamn he loves to spend it, and he's had some financial troubles in the past because of his flashy lifestyle. 0.51

01:11:34.000 But his skill and his overall boxing ability and his ability to talk shit and generate interest have pulled him out of these problems.

01:11:42.000 I hope not. 0.87

01:11:45.000 50 fights?

01:11:46.000 Pretty amazing.

01:11:47.000 50 training camps?

01:11:48.000 That's enough.

01:11:49.000 Pretty amazing if he does stop.

01:11:51.000 Pretty amazing.

01:11:51.000 That's enough.

01:11:52.000 Yeah.

01:11:53.000 He's retired on, what, three different occasions?

01:11:55.000 Came back?

01:11:56.000 Benefited from it?

01:11:57.000 I think he's good.

01:11:58.000 Selfishly, I would love to see it, but realistically, I think he's good.

01:12:01.000 The only thing I could think would maybe talk him out of it is if there was something that could generate a massive amount of money, like a Pacquiao fight.

01:12:12.000 Like a Pacquiao fight, you know, Pacquiao still, I mean, after he beat Keith Thurman, like, whoo!

01:12:18.000 But what's a massive amount of money?

01:12:20.000 I don't know.

01:12:20.000 Because he's had a massive amount of money.

01:12:22.000 I know.

01:12:23.000 Umpteen times.

01:12:24.000 I would like to ask him, like, legitimately, hey man, how much you got left?

01:12:27.000 I think he would do it for a B. There was a B behind it.

01:12:31.000 Could you imagine?

01:12:32.000 Like a strong, like, $750 million with upside.

01:12:37.000 Like, Floyd ain't turning down a B. Is that possible?

01:12:41.000 Can he get a billion dollars?

01:12:42.000 Why not, right?

01:12:43.000 If anybody could do it, right now it's Floyd.

01:12:46.000 I mean, who would he fight?

01:12:47.000 I feel like Floyd would have to fight a young guy.

01:12:50.000 Like, he's done the Conor McGregor thing.

01:12:53.000 People are like, oh, you got us.

01:12:55.000 Like, he'd have to fight a real threat.

01:12:58.000 Because people would pay that kind of money to see that Ogo. 0.98

01:13:02.000 So, like who?

01:13:02.000 Who, like Terrence?

01:13:03.000 It would have to be.

01:13:05.000 I don't know.

01:13:05.000 But again, I don't know commercially if Terrence is big enough.

01:13:08.000 I'm not sure.

01:13:09.000 I don't know if Errol Spence.

01:13:10.000 But it would have to be one of those kind of guys.

01:13:12.000 Errol, Terrence, before people would say, I don't care.

01:13:15.000 Pay-per-view is 200.

01:13:17.000 I don't care.

01:13:17.000 I don't think there's any star on that level right now.

01:13:21.000 I don't think there's any star on the level of where Floyd was when he was younger in his prime.

01:13:27.000 There's no one who generates that amount of eyes.

01:13:30.000 A Canelo fight could do something like that.

01:13:33.000 It could.

01:13:33.000 But Canelo's talking about fighting Kovalev, right?

01:13:35.000 But he would stop talking about fighting Kovalev.

01:13:38.000 And start running marathons.

01:13:39.000 Yes.

01:13:39.000 If Floyd was coming back.

01:13:40.000 It would be Kovalev who?

01:13:41.000 But Floyd would make him drop down to like 145 pounds or something crazy.

01:13:45.000 As he should.

01:13:46.000 Listen, man.

01:13:47.000 What did he make him fight at the first time?

01:13:49.000 152 or something like that?

01:13:50.000 He came with some arbitrary number.

01:13:52.000 He made him come down a little bit.

01:13:53.000 It was below junior middleweight.

01:13:55.000 I think it was like 52. Oscar De La Hoya did it to Floyd when they fought?

01:13:59.000 Yeah.

01:13:59.000 Because he was the A-side.

01:14:00.000 Yeah.

01:14:01.000 He picked the gloves.

01:14:02.000 Cleto Reyes.

01:14:03.000 He picked the size of the ring.

01:14:04.000 He picked everything.

01:14:05.000 He got to.

01:14:06.000 You're in a driver's seat.

01:14:07.000 Yes.

01:14:07.000 So don't get mad because Floyd is doing it right now.

01:14:09.000 Right.

01:14:09.000 Canelo, great fighter.

01:14:11.000 He's the A-side the majority of the time, unless you're fighting me.

01:14:14.000 So look, if you want this money, this is what we're going to do.

01:14:18.000 Isn't it right now the A-plus and the A-side, though?

01:14:21.000 It seems like Canelo's so huge, particularly the Mexican community.

01:14:25.000 You mean if they were fighting again?

01:14:26.000 Yes.

01:14:26.000 If they fought right now, Floyd's still the A-plus, but Canelo's kind of the A or at least the A-minus.

01:14:32.000 Yeah, maybe the A-minus.

01:14:33.000 But he'll always be, Floyd will always be the bigger star.

01:14:37.000 Yes.

01:14:37.000 Just based on what he's amassed.

01:14:38.000 Yes.

01:14:38.000 In his career and just who he is.

01:14:40.000 But when you look at what Canelo does, like when he knocked out Amir Khan, he's that, you know, he, that motherfucker could put some heat on some punches. 0.99

01:14:47.000 He can punch, yeah. 0.99

01:14:48.000 He can punch.

01:14:48.000 He can box too.

01:14:49.000 Do you think he can, he very, that's one thing he really did learn from fighting Floyd.

01:14:54.000 You know, how to not be there.

01:14:55.000 Mm-hmm.

01:14:55.000 And you saw that in the subsequent fights.

01:14:58.000 He learned from that fight.

01:14:59.000 That was a learning lesson. 0.98

01:15:01.000 And you could see in that fight, him realizing as the fight was going on, like, oh, fuck, I'm on another level of this video game, and I don't know how to beat this boss. 0.96

01:15:11.000 Floyd was just shutting him down and just doing beautiful things. 0.95

01:15:14.000 Levels to the game, bro. 0.99

01:15:15.000 For people who appreciate boxing, that's one of the best fights to watch because you've got this murderous young upstart who's a devastating puncher, who's a big, strong kid, who's just tough as fuck. 0.96

01:15:25.000 He just embraces that Mexican style of fighting pressure, a lot of power, moving forward. 0.95

01:15:31.000 Yeah.

01:15:32.000 I get it, but on the other hand, I don't get it.

01:15:36.000 How do you not see what's happening right now?

01:15:38.000 You have a young dude who can really punch, like we just said.

01:15:41.000 One punch can change it all.

01:15:43.000 Floyd's a little bit older.

01:15:44.000 He's not old, but he's older.

01:15:45.000 Yeah.

01:15:46.000 And he found a way to neutralize this young bull, this young lion, and then expose him.

01:15:52.000 He took away his strength and then exposed his weakness in a 12-round fashion.

01:15:57.000 Not one round, not five, not ten, but 12 rounds.

01:16:01.000 and left Canelo without answers.

01:16:04.000 That type of stuff, that's the way I was brought up.

01:16:06.000 Take away his greatest strength and expose his weakness, bro.

01:16:12.000 To me, I can watch 20 rounds like that.

01:16:15.000 I think that's because you are...

01:16:18.000 You're not just a great fighter, but you're also a deep fan of the sport.

01:16:25.000 But it wasn't always like that.

01:16:26.000 When you were a kid, weren't you a big fan of it?

01:16:29.000 Yeah, of course.

01:16:30.000 So you understand when you're seeing a masterful performance, you understand that the general public really doesn't understand what's happening.

01:16:40.000 They don't see it.

01:16:41.000 And that's our job as analysts and writers to educate the people.

01:16:45.000 You're going to have your diehards. 1.00

01:16:46.000 They're going to pick and choose what they like.

01:16:48.000 And generally speaking, the diehard is going to appreciate both styles and maybe have a favorite style.

01:16:53.000 But they're going to tune in for all of them.

01:16:54.000 The fight is over the casual.

01:16:56.000 And we in boxing, we kill ourselves.

01:16:58.000 We shoot ourselves in the foot because A, there's so much infighting.

01:17:02.000 And then you have people literally, like when a guy's fighting, a master's fighting, oh man, it's not worth watching.

01:17:08.000 I'll give you an example.

01:17:09.000 I'll bring it to the MMA world.

01:17:11.000 I'm a casual MMA fan.

01:17:13.000 Gilbert Melendez, I've worked out with him, Nick and Nate, and a couple other guys.

01:17:20.000 So I'll watch if one of those guys, some of those guys don't fight anymore, or Cormier, or maybe a John Jones.

01:17:26.000 I'll watch those types of guys.

01:17:29.000 I've never heard, maybe you can enlighten me, I've never heard an announcer rip a guy.

01:17:34.000 Even if a guy has no ground game, he's like, look, if so-and-so gets him on the ground, he's in trouble.

01:17:39.000 But if you stand up with this guy, you're giving me a reason to stay engaged.

01:17:43.000 We in boxing, a lot of times, and we have in past times, I think we've gotten a little bit better as of late.

01:17:50.000 This is terrible.

01:17:51.000 Listen, man, if I'm a casual fan, why am I going to stick around?

01:17:54.000 The fight is over the casual, not the hardcore fan.

01:17:57.000 So, We make, you know, a guy who can hit and not get hit, like it's some, you know, some super, like this is some special thing that, you know, you got to be really, really smart to understand.

01:18:09.000 It's really not.

01:18:10.000 It's the fundamentals of the game.

01:18:12.000 Like when you go into a gym for the first time, hey man, use your jab.

01:18:15.000 Hey man, you hit this guy, take a half step back so he can't return fire.

01:18:18.000 It's the fundamentals of the game at the highest level.

01:18:21.000 It's not that deep.

01:18:23.000 It's really not.

01:18:24.000 It's being presented to people like it's deep.

01:18:26.000 It's hit and not get hit.

01:18:28.000 And even in the whole hit and not get hit concept, you're going to get hit.

01:18:33.000 You're going to get hit.

01:18:34.000 You can't avoid contact all the time.

01:18:37.000 And then you got to be able to see, okay, this dude, he really doesn't like to get hit, but man, he just got hit with that good shot.

01:18:41.000 Man, he came back.

01:18:42.000 Man, he responded.

01:18:43.000 Wow, man, that dude does have heart.

01:18:44.000 If you're really looking at it, you're going to see a fight.

01:18:48.000 You're going to see boxing all in one fight, even against a guy who's a master.

01:18:51.000 You're going to see the whole gamut.

01:18:52.000 Well, in sports commentary...

01:18:55.000 There's a way that sports people write, and there's a way that sports people do commentary where it's very negative, and they like to call people bums.

01:19:06.000 There's an appeal to a certain kind of fan, and it's very profitable to be very negative and to talk about a certain way.

01:19:16.000 I made a very conscious decision when I started doing commentary to celebrate these fighters and to try to honor their hard work and what they're doing and to let people know how spectacular it is to me someone who loves the sport.

01:19:31.000 And I stay away from negative as much as possible unless it's absolutely negative to talk about.

01:19:38.000 To show, like, maybe someone would have to make some egregious error for me to say, don't ever do this.

01:19:47.000 When I talk about these guys, I want people to feel how I feel when I watch, if I watch Demetrius Mighty Mouse Johnson, who's one of my favorite of all time, and one of the things about Demetrius, to me, that's so spectacular, was that he was able to fight these amazing fighters and make them look like they had no business being in there with him.

01:20:08.000 His movement, his arsenal, His technique.

01:20:11.000 He could do anything.

01:20:12.000 He could take you down.

01:20:13.000 He could submit you. 1.00

01:20:14.000 He could kick you. 1.00

01:20:15.000 He could punch you. 0.99

01:20:15.000 His footwork, his movement was masterful. 0.99

01:20:18.000 But he had a hard time finding an audience.

01:20:20.000 I did my best.

01:20:21.000 I did my best to let people know, like, you are watching a special person.

01:20:25.000 You're watching a magician in there.

01:20:27.000 I mean, he's on the highest level I've ever seen in all my years of watching combat sports.

01:20:32.000 That's as high as it ever gets.

01:20:34.000 He's just 125 pounds.

01:20:36.000 People just couldn't get excited about it.

01:20:38.000 But you did your part.

01:20:40.000 I tried.

01:20:40.000 You did your part.

01:20:42.000 And listen, there's times you've got to call fighters out for stuff.

01:20:45.000 I'm not opposed.

01:20:46.000 I'm not saying that you always have to be in alignment with a fighter.

01:20:49.000 If it's justified to call him out, if he put on a bad performance, look, bro, he didn't perform the way he was supposed to.

01:20:55.000 Timothy Bradley did that recently, and I think it was very justified.

01:20:58.000 Which one?

01:20:58.000 There was a Russian heavyweight, and he was on an undercard, and he was fighting this other dude, and the dude kind of laid down.

01:21:03.000 And Timothy Bradley was like, Listen, let's be honest.

01:21:06.000 He felt like he wanted a way out.

01:21:10.000 He wasn't really here to fight.

01:21:11.000 He was here to pad this guy's record.

01:21:13.000 I'm like, man, you know, that's exactly true.

01:21:15.000 Yeah, you gotta remain credible, too.

01:21:18.000 That's one of the things that's important about you.

01:21:20.000 You are very credible, but also very positive and fair.

01:21:25.000 You're fair and your praise.

01:21:27.000 I try to be, man.

01:21:28.000 I think also what's hurt, and I think we do a great job at ESPN with my crew.

01:21:34.000 Well, you guys have replaced the best, which used to be HBO. When HBO went away, man, I was like, I can't believe they're getting out of the boxing game.

01:21:41.000 Yeah, I couldn't believe.

01:21:42.000 I'm still shocked.

01:21:43.000 I can't.

01:21:43.000 There was, what, 40 years or something?

01:21:45.000 40. I grew up on...

01:21:46.000 Crazy.

01:21:47.000 Yeah.

01:21:49.000 I used to look forward to it.

01:21:50.000 I grew up on that.

01:21:50.000 I would get it on my DVR every time.

01:21:53.000 Like, here we go.

01:21:53.000 Who's fighting?

01:21:54.000 Yeah.

01:21:54.000 That's one thing that we try to stress.

01:21:56.000 You know, our lead producer, Mike McQuaid, Joe Tessitore, Tim Bradley, Mark Kriegel, Bernardo Asuna, Christina Poncho.

01:22:02.000 Like, we are trying to be fair and objective, but yet truthful.

01:22:08.000 And everybody has a reverence for the guys that are getting in there.

01:22:12.000 And with all of that on the table, then we try to call it from that point.

01:22:15.000 What's happening in past times, and even a little bit still today, is personal agendas, personal issues spill over into the commentary or into the article that's being written.

01:22:27.000 If you don't like Floyd's lifestyle, I don't ascribe to Floyd's lifestyle, but that's not my business.

01:22:32.000 As a fighter?

01:22:34.000 We're going to call this the way we see it.

01:22:36.000 Yes.

01:22:37.000 He is arguably one of the greatest of all time.

01:22:39.000 Now, wherever you have him on that list, that's your decision.

01:22:42.000 Subjective.

01:22:43.000 But people would take the lifestyle and things that was, oh, Floyd, no, man, you're letting that spill over into this, and now you're messing up this broadcast right now because Floyd's doing something and we're not acknowledging it, and it's clear that you don't like him.

01:22:56.000 That's the issue.

01:22:57.000 Keep those things separate.

01:22:58.000 Lifestyles, lifestyles.

01:22:59.000 You're going to talk about that and you're doing a background story or whatever, okay, address that.

01:23:02.000 But if we're talking in the ring, come on, man.

01:23:05.000 Genius.

01:23:05.000 Well, it's so interesting, too, to see a guy like you who is a former two-division world champion and an Olympic gold medalist who also transitions to be an excellent broadcaster because there's only been a few.

01:23:17.000 George Foreman, I love him to death, but he was odd when he was doing commentary.

01:23:21.000 I like Big George, man. 1.00

01:23:22.000 I loved him, but he would say crazy shit. 1.00

01:23:25.000 He'd be like, what is he saying? 1.00

01:23:26.000 I mean, he spoke his mind.

01:23:27.000 I think that's why people loved him, though.

01:23:28.000 He was so folksy.

01:23:32.000 And you knew.

01:23:34.000 He's obviously a fantastic heavyweight and the oldest guy ever to win the heavyweight title.

01:23:40.000 Roy was great as a commentator as well. 0.98

01:23:43.000 But where the fuck is Jim Lampley? 0.98

01:23:46.000 I'm not sure what Jim's doing right now. 0.99

01:23:49.000 I'm surprised he's not out there, too.

01:23:50.000 I actually owe Jim a call.

01:23:52.000 I don't know.

01:23:53.000 I don't understand it.

01:23:54.000 He was so good.

01:23:55.000 He is, to me, the gold standard of play-by-play.

01:23:59.000 Jim could do whatever he wants to do in life.

01:24:01.000 I did hear that he was teaching somewhere.

01:24:03.000 That's one thing he's doing.

01:24:04.000 Teaching?

01:24:05.000 Teaching, yeah, at a college somewhere.

01:24:07.000 Really?

01:24:07.000 Yeah.

01:24:08.000 Wow, what's he teaching?

01:24:09.000 Broadcasting or something?

01:24:10.000 I'm sure.

01:24:11.000 Wow, how interesting.

01:24:12.000 Jim could do whatever he wants to do, man.

01:24:14.000 That dude's intelligent.

01:24:15.000 He's smart.

01:24:15.000 He's paid his dues.

01:24:16.000 I think he's going to have his pick.

01:24:17.000 I'm not sure why we haven't seen him out there in the forefront, but I'm sure he's doing something.

01:24:21.000 Yeah, I miss him.

01:24:22.000 Yeah, me too, man.

01:24:23.000 Like, that's one of my mentors.

01:24:24.000 Like, I started off with Al Bernstein at Showtime.

01:24:26.000 That was one of my first mentors.

01:24:29.000 Then, obviously, Lampley, Kellerman.

01:24:31.000 Yeah, where's Kellerman?

01:24:32.000 Because Kellerman's doing other things for ESPN, but he's not calling fights.

01:24:35.000 He works with us.

01:24:37.000 He doesn't do every fight.

01:24:38.000 He'll do specific fights.

01:24:39.000 He'll be at the desk.

01:24:40.000 So he's not doing ringside.

01:24:42.000 Right.

01:24:42.000 But what is that?

01:24:43.000 Why isn't he doing ringside?

01:24:44.000 I'm not sure, man.

01:24:45.000 He's got a lot going on. 1.00

01:24:46.000 What the fuck? 1.00

01:24:47.000 Yeah, he's got a lot going on. 1.00

01:24:48.000 But we have a great crew, man.

01:24:49.000 We have a great crew.

01:24:50.000 Like Joe Tessitore, man.

01:24:51.000 Come on.

01:24:51.000 Legend in the game.

01:24:52.000 Legend in the game.

01:24:53.000 And you and Tim together are a fantastic combination.

01:24:56.000 I appreciate that.

01:24:57.000 You know, it's amazing, man.

01:24:58.000 And then we got our guy Mark Kriegel doing the personal stories and digging in guys' background.

01:25:03.000 Probably the best storyteller that I know that's out right now.

01:25:06.000 Well, it's so interesting, this ESPN Plus thing, and the Zone, and these streaming services that have come along that have sort of changed everything.

01:25:14.000 I mean, I don't worry about taping anything anymore.

01:25:17.000 I know I'm going to go home, and I'm either going to watch them on my phone if I'm out.

01:25:22.000 Like, I was at dinner with my wife, and I was sneaking fights in the bathroom.

01:25:26.000 I'm like, I've got to take a leak. 0.99

01:25:27.000 I've got to see what the fuck is going on. 0.99

01:25:29.000 I'm watching fights while I'm peeing. 0.99

01:25:32.000 It's like you can get it anywhere as long as you have internet service now.

01:25:38.000 I mean, that's so fantastic.

01:25:40.000 I think that's where we're headed, exclusively.

01:25:42.000 Yeah, I think so too.

01:25:44.000 I mean, the UFC thinks so as well.

01:25:46.000 They made this deal with ESPN and a lot of people freaked out. 0.98

01:25:48.000 But for me, it's fucking great. 0.96

01:25:50.000 I like it. 0.97

01:25:51.000 I mean, it's great.

01:25:52.000 My daughter had this event that she was going to, and as soon as it was over, I ran upstairs, and I pull out the phone, and I'm watching fights.

01:25:59.000 Isn't that crazy?

01:26:00.000 It's crazy.

01:26:01.000 Instantaneously.

01:26:02.000 You don't have to go home.

01:26:03.000 Get them right there.

01:26:04.000 It's just a whole new world.

01:26:07.000 This world of, I want it right now.

01:26:09.000 It's funny, though, because I hear people that have the old narrative of boxing.

01:26:13.000 Listen.

01:26:15.000 The reports of boxing's demise has been greatly exaggerated.

01:26:19.000 I've been hearing this stuff for so long.

01:26:21.000 It's just like for casual fans, it's just something cool to say.

01:26:24.000 No.

01:26:25.000 Why isn't boxing what it used to be?

01:26:27.000 Listen, the errors are their errors, but in terms of available content, available fights, I think we're at an all-time high right now.

01:26:33.000 Yes, I think so too.

01:26:34.000 There are other people doing what they're doing.

01:26:36.000 God bless them.

01:26:36.000 But what we're doing at ESPN, man, I think it's unmatched.

01:26:39.000 Yeah, I think ESPN is fantastic right now, and I appreciate DAZN as well.

01:26:42.000 I mean, boxing is in an amazing place right now.

01:26:45.000 There's so many elite fighters, and there's a lot of hype on the sport right now.

01:26:49.000 There's people that are very excited about it, people that are casual fans.

01:26:52.000 Look, the Tyson Fury-Deontay Wilder fight did more for heavyweight boxing than I think any fight in recent memory. 0.88

01:26:58.000 When Deontay knocked him down in the 12th round, and Tyson Fury rose like Lazarus, and you're like, holy shit, this fight's still going on? 0.93

01:27:07.000 He did! 0.77

01:27:08.000 And then after that, he won the round!

01:27:10.000 Like, this is insane!

01:27:11.000 He looks like he's getting... 1.00

01:27:13.000 It looked like his soul left his fucking body. 1.00

01:27:15.000 I turned to my wife, I was like, that's a rat. 1.00

01:27:18.000 I turned back, I was like, what?

01:27:21.000 He got up within the tank!

01:27:23.000 Like, I'm trying to figure out if it was over, and they just had no...

01:27:25.000 Dude got up and won the rest of the round. 0.79

01:27:27.000 Dude, I was watching in my bed, right?

01:27:29.000 So I'm leaning back.

01:27:31.000 My feet are on the bed.

01:27:33.000 Deontay hits him.

01:27:34.000 I rocket towards the front of the bed.

01:27:36.000 I'm sitting down. 0.99

01:27:37.000 I'm like, holy shit, he knocked him out in the 12th round! 0.99

01:27:41.000 He got up! 0.99

01:27:42.000 He got up!

01:27:42.000 And I'm sitting there, oh my god!

01:27:44.000 Oh my god! 1.00

01:27:45.000 My wife comes in the room, she's like, what the fuck are you doing? 1.00

01:27:48.000 I'm like, he got up! 0.99

01:27:49.000 He got up!

01:27:50.000 She just walks away with her hands up. 0.95

01:27:52.000 Fury saved his career.

01:27:53.000 He did.

01:27:54.000 He put tens of millions of dollars.

01:27:55.000 That was the hundred million dollar getup.

01:27:58.000 It was the greatest get-up of all time.

01:28:00.000 I don't know how much he got from ESPN. It's reported 100 million.

01:28:02.000 Some people say no, but that get-up was a very, very wealthy get-up.

01:28:06.000 And then how about the fact that he gives his entire purse away to charity? 0.99

01:28:10.000 I mean, who the fuck gives $10 million away to charity? 0.98

01:28:13.000 I love to give, but I ain't giving the whole thing. 0.99

01:28:15.000 No way!

01:28:16.000 No way!

01:28:17.000 After that fight, keep half at least.

01:28:19.000 Keep something.

01:28:20.000 I got something for you, bro.

01:28:21.000 Give him a million.

01:28:21.000 Everybody would still love you.

01:28:22.000 Yeah, I can't do that.

01:28:23.000 Not the whole thing.

01:28:24.000 He's an interesting cat, man.

01:28:26.000 And the will to get up.

01:28:28.000 I mean, Deontay Wilder is a terrifying puncher.

01:28:31.000 He's a terrifying puncher.

01:28:32.000 But it's like I said earlier, those intangibles, they're in you, not on you.

01:28:36.000 And he showed what was in him in that moment.

01:28:38.000 Oh, it's 100% in him. 0.94

01:28:40.000 There's not a goddamn person in the world that can count out Tyson Fury after that. 0.96

01:28:44.000 I mean, that man is special. 0.98

01:28:45.000 The way he rose...

01:28:47.000 I can't wait to see the rematch.

01:28:49.000 Woo! 0.99

01:28:49.000 Is that gonna happen? 0.99

01:28:50.000 It's gonna happen.

01:28:51.000 There's all this talk, but...

01:28:53.000 It's reportedly, not official, but reportedly, February, Las Vegas.

01:29:00.000 But doesn't he have to...

01:29:01.000 Tyson has to get past...

01:29:02.000 What's his name?

01:29:04.000 Otto...

01:29:04.000 Valin.

01:29:06.000 He's got to get past that, dude.

01:29:07.000 That might not happen.

01:29:08.000 I mean, he could lose to that guy. 0.99

01:29:10.000 All weird shit happens. 0.99

01:29:12.000 Luis Ortiz and Deontay Wilder. 0.99

01:29:13.000 Dude, Luis Ortiz put it on him in that first fight.

01:29:17.000 But Luis Ortiz is at least 150 years old.

01:29:19.000 At least.

01:29:22.000 He's got one of them Cuban birth certificates.

01:29:24.000 He's been like 40 for like 10 years.

01:29:26.000 Like, bro, come on.

01:29:27.000 You keep saying you're 40 years old.

01:29:28.000 You're older than that, right?

01:29:29.000 No, no.

01:29:30.000 He's been telling us that he's been the same age for a long time.

01:29:34.000 But I'm hopeful.

01:29:35.000 I think both guys know what's on the table.

01:29:37.000 They're going to rise, man.

01:29:38.000 I think they're going to get it done.

01:29:39.000 No guarantees.

01:29:39.000 It's boxing.

01:29:40.000 Stuff happens.

01:29:41.000 But hopefully they take care of business and we get the rematch. 0.99

01:29:44.000 Well, I hope neither fighter looks past, particularly Deontay and Ortiz, because Ortiz hit him with some fucking bombs in that first fight and had him hurt, man. 0.98

01:29:53.000 But he recovered. 0.98

01:29:54.000 He did recover.

01:29:55.000 He recovered and stopped him.

01:29:56.000 What a crazy record that guy's got.

01:29:58.000 He's like 39-0, right?

01:30:02.000 No, 39 knockouts, 40 wins, one draw. 1.00

01:30:07.000 Fuck! 1.00

01:30:08.000 39 knockouts! 1.00

01:30:10.000 No, there's two fights.

01:30:12.000 Yeah, one draw and one decision to...

01:30:15.000 Was it Brazil?

01:30:17.000 No, no, no.

01:30:17.000 Brazili just knocked out.

01:30:18.000 Saverne.

01:30:19.000 Saverne, right.

01:30:19.000 And then he came back and knocked Saverne out in the rematch.

01:30:22.000 But that's...

01:30:23.000 Made him pay for going the distance.

01:30:24.000 Like, you want to go the distance with me?

01:30:26.000 I got something for you.

01:30:27.000 Not only that, the way he did it.

01:30:29.000 Just defiant, hands down, winging punches that come from Jupiter.

01:30:33.000 Bro, that was like my biggest fear.

01:30:36.000 Losing was one thing, but just getting knocked out ugly.

01:30:40.000 My biggest fear was getting hit with a shot I didn't see or even feel and then woke up like, what happened?

01:30:48.000 Did that ever happen to you as an amateur?

01:30:49.000 No.

01:30:51.000 Never, thank God.

01:30:52.000 But that was my biggest feel.

01:30:53.000 You can't control that.

01:30:54.000 You can be in tip-top shape.

01:30:55.000 You can have all the mental stuff down, check all the boxes, and all of a sudden, boom.

01:30:59.000 If the shot with Kovalev landed a little bit left or right, who knows?

01:31:02.000 Right, right.

01:31:03.000 That's the crazy thing about getting punched, right?

01:31:05.000 Because in this day and age, bro, they're merciless.

01:31:09.000 Yeah.

01:31:09.000 The internet is merciless.

01:31:11.000 Oh, they're so merciless.

01:31:12.000 Yeah.

01:31:12.000 It's crazy.

01:31:13.000 When I was a kid, I was a giant fan of Donald Curry.

01:31:17.000 And Donald Curry fought Milton McCrory.

01:31:19.000 Milton McCrory hit him with a left hook to the body and then a left hook on the chin.

01:31:23.000 And I was like, oh no.

01:31:26.000 Oh no, Mike McCallum, I'm sorry.

01:31:27.000 He knocked out Milton McCrory with a left hook.

01:31:30.000 But Mike McCown, the body snatcher, hit him with a left hook to the body and then one up top, and the one up top starched him.

01:31:35.000 And he went flat on his back.

01:31:37.000 I was like, no!

01:31:38.000 And I remember I couldn't take it.

01:31:40.000 I put my shoes on and I went running.

01:31:41.000 I couldn't take it.

01:31:42.000 And I decided at that point, as I was running down the street, I was like, I am never going to get emotionally attached to a fighter again.

01:31:48.000 I'm never going to put all my eggs in one basket.

01:31:50.000 It's too hard.

01:31:51.000 Because I lost too.

01:31:53.000 It wasn't just I saw who I'm a fan of.

01:31:55.000 I'm a fan of Mike McCown.

01:31:56.000 He was an amazing fighter.

01:31:57.000 It wasn't just that.

01:31:59.000 It was just that it hurt me.

01:32:01.000 That's how I felt when Roy lost for the first time.

01:32:03.000 I was in New Jersey.

01:32:05.000 I was still an amateur.

01:32:06.000 It's a USA versus Ireland duel.

01:32:08.000 I wasn't fighting in it, but I was just out there supporting the team.

01:32:12.000 We couldn't get the fight.

01:32:13.000 Then all of a sudden, people started blowing me up because they knew Roy was my dude.

01:32:18.000 You heard what happened?

01:32:19.000 What do you mean?

01:32:20.000 Roy got knocked out.

01:32:21.000 I ain't getting knocked out, mister.

01:32:23.000 I'm trying to look.

01:32:24.000 Roy got knocked out.

01:32:26.000 Bro, I was done.

01:32:28.000 Like, I just dragged.

01:32:30.000 I went to my room, bro.

01:32:31.000 Put the covers over my head and went to sleep.

01:32:33.000 And I woke up and I just felt like I lost.

01:32:36.000 Like, that was so painful.

01:32:38.000 Like, that's my guy.

01:32:39.000 That's Roy Jones.

01:32:40.000 He's Superman.

01:32:41.000 He don't get knocked out.

01:32:42.000 He got knocked out.

01:32:43.000 He was in a Nas song.

01:32:45.000 The new Mike Tyson's Roy Jones.

01:32:48.000 I mean, when he was in his prime, people don't understand when you would watch him, the way he would just dice guys up.

01:32:57.000 And do it so unorthodox that leaping left hook was crazy.

01:33:01.000 But he had his swag, though.

01:33:01.000 And it wasn't just the average, like, oh, I'm talking tough, I believe in myself.

01:33:05.000 He danced to the ring, man.

01:33:06.000 He came in the ring in like a tuxedo robe.

01:33:10.000 I wanted the little Roy Jones ducktail he had back there, bro.

01:33:14.000 I wanted to do what Roy did.

01:33:15.000 I remember I wrote him a letter.

01:33:18.000 And Brad Jacobs, who's the COO of Top Ranked Boxing right now, or the CFO, excuse me, he was over Roy's company, Square Ring, at the time.

01:33:28.000 And I remember Brad wrote me back and was like, hey, thanks for writing Roy.

01:33:33.000 Roy's getting ready for Vinny Pazienza.

01:33:35.000 Next time you're in Vegas, he wants to meet you.

01:33:37.000 And the next time ended up being John Ruiz.

01:33:40.000 That was the next time Roy fought in Vegas.

01:33:41.000 But, like, I've been rocking with Roy for a long time.

01:33:44.000 When he fought Pazienza, that was, I believe, the only time a fighter never scored a single punch in a round.

01:33:51.000 Pazienza literally couldn't hit him.

01:33:53.000 But the way he did it again, like, he had Pazienza going, he's looking at the ref like, hey man, stop the fight.

01:33:57.000 Yep.

01:33:58.000 Okay, he shrugged like this and boom, boom, hit him with like three uppercuts, fight over.

01:34:01.000 I'm like, who does that?

01:34:02.000 Nobody.

01:34:02.000 Nobody did it like Roy did it.

01:34:06.000 It's hard for people to look back now because it's not happening while it's happening.

01:34:11.000 Yep.

01:34:11.000 But when it was happening back then, you would just go, God!

01:34:14.000 He played a full game of basketball the day of a fight.

01:34:18.000 Who does that?

01:34:18.000 Nobody does that.

01:34:19.000 Against Eric Lucas on HBO. Yeah.

01:34:21.000 It's crazy.

01:34:21.000 Who does that?

01:34:22.000 Nobody. 1.00

01:34:23.000 He did amazing shit, man. 0.99

01:34:25.000 When he kept fighting, did that cement in your idea that that was never going to happen to you? 1.00

01:34:33.000 And I hate that he was kind of...

01:34:35.000 He was one of the ones.

01:34:37.000 I'm not going to say he was the one because there was a lot of that stuff going on in boxing.

01:34:40.000 But when I seen that, I was like, dude, I can't, man.

01:34:43.000 The Glenn Johnson fight was hard.

01:34:45.000 Yeah, I was there.

01:34:45.000 The Glenn Johnson fight was hard because he was stiff.

01:34:48.000 He was stiff.

01:34:49.000 And that was right after the Tarver fight.

01:34:51.000 He came out with my gold medal on him.

01:34:53.000 I had just got back from Greece.

01:34:55.000 And Roy had my medal on.

01:34:57.000 He's rapping to the ring.

01:34:58.000 He's got my medal on.

01:35:00.000 And I'm sitting probably in the third row or something like that.

01:35:03.000 And he got starched.

01:35:04.000 And these two boys, they're grown now, but they were young.

01:35:07.000 And they're trying to get over the little barrier.

01:35:09.000 They're trying to get in the ring.

01:35:11.000 And I remember a couple hours after that, I'm walking around downtown.

01:35:17.000 And I saw one of Roy's guys.

01:35:19.000 And he was like, hey, Drake, come here.

01:35:22.000 And Roy was in the back of a Rolls Royce.

01:35:25.000 And it was just him.

01:35:26.000 And it was all dark and he had his head down.

01:35:28.000 And, you know, he opened the door and Roy kind of looked up.

01:35:31.000 I was like, man, what's up, Roy?

01:35:32.000 He was like, what's up, baby?

01:35:33.000 I said, man, I love you, man.

01:35:35.000 I love you.

01:35:35.000 That's all I could tell him.

01:35:36.000 I said, I love you.

01:35:37.000 I dapped him up, gave him a hug, and then that was it.

01:35:40.000 But I'll never forget that moment.

01:35:42.000 Never forget that.

01:35:44.000 And just for whatever reason, he just wasn't able to recover, man.

01:35:48.000 And I think, you know, again, the boo birds.

01:35:51.000 You got the people that, all right, I knew Roy couldn't take a punch.

01:35:54.000 Listen, bro, you don't get as far as he got not being able to take a punch.

01:35:57.000 But when you strip off 25 pounds of muscle abruptly, it shocks you.

01:36:01.000 You can't take a punch like you used to.

01:36:03.000 Your body's weak. 0.99

01:36:04.000 You're weak.

01:36:04.000 And your whole neuromuscular system.

01:36:07.000 It's all messed up.

01:36:08.000 Yeah.

01:36:08.000 Excuse me.

01:36:09.000 No, we see it in fights all the time where fighters lose too much weight.

01:36:13.000 It's terrifying to see that.

01:36:15.000 But to see Roy, the Tarver fight was hard to watch, but Tarver's a great fighter.

01:36:20.000 He caught him, he clipped him, he hurt him, he knocked him down.

01:36:23.000 They stopped the fight, he couldn't get up.

01:36:25.000 But the Glenn Johnson fight was much more terrifying to me because he banged his head off the ground when he went out, and he went out stiff.

01:36:32.000 One leg was up in the air.

01:36:34.000 Those ones where a guy looks like he's getting electrocuted when they go out, those are the scary ones.

01:36:39.000 And Tarver, you know, taking nothing from Glenn Johnson, he was a total overachiever.

01:36:43.000 Yes.

01:36:44.000 You know, lunch pill type guy, blue collar fighter.

01:36:47.000 But you didn't expect him to do that.

01:36:49.000 Right.

01:36:49.000 And a lot of people didn't expect Tarver to do it either, but like, you know, Olympian, you know, like, you can see the skill set.

01:36:56.000 Yeah.

01:36:56.000 Big left-handed guy, so it's not like out of the question that something like that can happen, but nobody saw that coming with Glenn Johnson.

01:37:02.000 No.

01:37:02.000 Do you think that he just hadn't recovered really truly from the Tarver knockout?

01:37:07.000 I think my gut, I think it was that, A, and then B, I don't think he took Glenn serious.

01:37:12.000 I think he looked at it like, you know, it was cool.

01:37:15.000 I'm going to get back with this guy and I'm going to get back to the top.

01:37:17.000 I just don't think he took him serious.

01:37:18.000 And Glenn, that was his Super Bowl.

01:37:20.000 Yeah.

01:37:20.000 He was a road warrior.

01:37:21.000 That's his nickname.

01:37:22.000 Yeah.

01:37:22.000 So he had to get it the hard way.

01:37:23.000 So I got Roy Jones coming off a knockout to Target.

01:37:26.000 Let's go.

01:37:27.000 He came in tipped off shape.

01:37:29.000 And I just wish Roy would have took it serious.

01:37:30.000 Yeah, that made Glenn Johnson's career.

01:37:33.000 Literally.

01:37:34.000 Literally.

01:37:34.000 Tarver went on to fight, I mean, all the way up to heavyweight, right?

01:37:39.000 I mean, I think he was fighting fairly recently, wasn't he?

01:37:43.000 He's got a fight coming up.

01:37:44.000 Him and his son are going to fight on the same car, Tarver Jr. I think in Florida.

01:37:48.000 I don't know the details, but yeah.

01:37:49.000 But he hasn't fought in a couple years.

01:37:50.000 I think he's been trying to get a fight.

01:37:52.000 You know, you'll see Tarver post stuff like, yo, I'm ready.

01:37:55.000 And I don't know why he hasn't been able to get a chance.

01:37:57.000 I don't know.

01:37:58.000 But once I got over the Roy stuff, and I'll never fully get over it, but like...

01:38:03.000 I've forgiven Tarver for it.

01:38:06.000 It took a minute, but I got an immense amount of respect for Tarver.

01:38:10.000 Respect him.

01:38:10.000 He had to get it the hard way, too.

01:38:12.000 He's a guy that didn't really get a lot of respect and love, but did so much for the sport and in the sport.

01:38:18.000 So I got a soft spot for Tarver because I know, again, he didn't get his just due.

01:38:22.000 He pressed his way, man.

01:38:23.000 He beat a lot of good guys.

01:38:25.000 I don't think he got his just due after he knocked Roy out.

01:38:28.000 I feel like there was a lot of people that were second-guessing it.

01:38:30.000 They were saying, well, it's just evidence of Roy's demise.

01:38:33.000 I'm like, wait a minute. 0.98

01:38:35.000 Tarver said, at the fucking touch of gloves, got any excuses tonight, Roy? 0.99

01:38:40.000 And then knocks him out. 0.99

01:38:42.000 I mean, if that doesn't get people's respect, I mean, he did what he was supposed to do.

01:38:46.000 Even more than that, like to have the guts to chase Roy down.

01:38:49.000 He literally chased him down.

01:38:51.000 Like when Roy fought Clinton Woods in Portland, Tarva was at that press conference.

01:38:55.000 And every fight leading up to the Ruiz fight, Tarva was at that press conference.

01:38:59.000 He'd have his phone up with his manager on the phone so they could hear what Roy's saying.

01:39:03.000 Like that takes a lot of guts, bro.

01:39:05.000 To chase the best fighter in the world that seems invincible and to say, look, give me a shot.

01:39:10.000 Like, because if you lose, that's it for you, bro.

01:39:12.000 Yeah.

01:39:13.000 You know, he did it, believed in himself.

01:39:15.000 The first fight was close.

01:39:17.000 And the second fight, he said what he said in the beginning.

01:39:19.000 Like, what kind of guts does that take to be able to, like, for the whole world?

01:39:22.000 Can you, you got any excuses tonight?

01:39:23.000 And even before the knockout, Buddy McGirt said something about respect.

01:39:28.000 He said, man, you're showing him too much respect, baby.

01:39:30.000 He said, don't use that word in this corner.

01:39:32.000 He was locked in.

01:39:34.000 Wow.

01:39:34.000 He was locked in and then went out and knocked Roy out.

01:39:36.000 So yeah, it had something to do with that, but that's not Tarver's fault.

01:39:39.000 Don't use that word in this corner.

01:39:41.000 Never heard nothing like that before.

01:39:44.000 Wow.

01:39:46.000 When you look at the game right now, who do you think, who's exciting to you?

01:39:51.000 Obviously, there's Terrence Crawford and Lomachenko, but is there anybody that really stands out for you?

01:39:56.000 My little brother Shakur Stevenson.

01:39:59.000 Co-manage him along with James Prince and Josh Dubin.

01:40:02.000 Silver medalist.

01:40:04.000 He's getting ready to fight his first title fight coming up at Featherweight.

01:40:08.000 He stays focused, which I believe he will.

01:40:11.000 He's going to be on top for a long time.

01:40:13.000 Teofimo Lopez.

01:40:15.000 He's a young up-and-coming guy.

01:40:16.000 He's getting ready to fight, reportedly, Richard Comey sometime in December, possibly.

01:40:21.000 He's a young guy.

01:40:22.000 Obviously, Terrence, Errol Spence.

01:40:24.000 They have to fight, right?

01:40:27.000 It's tough, man.

01:40:28.000 It is tough, but for a fan?

01:40:30.000 Listen, I want to see it.

01:40:32.000 But if you're on his side, I see what they're doing.

01:40:37.000 And honestly...

01:40:38.000 What are they doing?

01:40:39.000 You can't even be mad at it.

01:40:40.000 Well, Al Heyman and those guys over there, they got all the welterweights.

01:40:45.000 So, if you don't, if you're not, you know, if you don't really like the other side, or if you feel some type of way about ESPN and top rank, and you know that Terrence is wanting this fight, why not make him wait a year or two and let your guy, Errol Spence, try to clean out the whole welterweight division?

01:41:03.000 Now, he has Sean Porter coming up, and that's not going to be an easy fight for either guy, and I respect it and got a lot of love for both.

01:41:08.000 But they're trying to squeeze him out.

01:41:10.000 So, they're looking at us like, yeah, I hear you.

01:41:12.000 You want that fight, but we got bigger plans.

01:41:15.000 I'm going to let my guy amass a bigger following.

01:41:19.000 He's got a big following in Dallas, in Jerry's world.

01:41:22.000 Jerry Jones is behind Errol Spence.

01:41:24.000 So that's what they're doing right now.

01:41:26.000 And as a fan, I don't like it.

01:41:29.000 But as a businessman, I get it.

01:41:31.000 I understand what they're doing.

01:41:33.000 But from what you're saying, to your point, my only thing with that...

01:41:39.000 And I've told both guys this, like, you can't say that you're the best.

01:41:43.000 And you may feel like you're the best.

01:41:46.000 You may tell yourself you're the best, but you really don't know if you're the best until you fight the best.

01:41:51.000 And that's my only thing with boxing as it stands today.

01:41:55.000 Like, social media, man.

01:42:00.000 Social media tells a lot of lies.

01:42:03.000 Like, it's some young guys coming up.

01:42:05.000 I'm not going to name any names.

01:42:07.000 But it's some young guys coming up who have a lot of potential.

01:42:10.000 Could possibly be the guy.

01:42:13.000 But they're not fighting anybody.

01:42:15.000 But yet they'll go to social.

01:42:18.000 Yeah, I'm the man.

01:42:20.000 I'm next.

01:42:21.000 Floyd's gone.

01:42:21.000 I'm next.

01:42:22.000 And you get social.

01:42:23.000 Yeah, you're right, man.

01:42:24.000 You're next.

01:42:24.000 Come on, man.

01:42:26.000 It's something called box wreck or fight facts.

01:42:30.000 Punch in their name.

01:42:30.000 You go to the search.

01:42:31.000 Punch in first.

01:42:32.000 Last name.

01:42:33.000 And you got to be specific with BoxRec.

01:42:35.000 Because if you misspell a letter in the name, it won't pop up.

01:42:39.000 So get the name right.

01:42:40.000 First and last.

01:42:41.000 And then all of a sudden, the record pops up.

01:42:44.000 First fight to whatever their last fight was.

01:42:47.000 And then you can cross-reference the guys they beat.

01:42:49.000 Oh, this dude he beat was 20-0.

01:42:51.000 Click on that dude's name.

01:42:53.000 Ah, this dude ain't fought nobody.

01:42:54.000 So his 20-0 really ain't a real 20-0, and you're hanging your hat on the fact that you beat that guy.

01:42:59.000 It's a lot of that in the game, and guys aren't willing to test themselves.

01:43:03.000 Now listen, it's a place for building.

01:43:05.000 It's a place for getting seasoning.

01:43:07.000 I'm not a fan of rushing.

01:43:09.000 That's not what I'm saying.

01:43:11.000 But at a certain point in time, If you're going to say that you're the best and that you're the next Floyd and that you...

01:43:17.000 Regardless of what weight class you may be, you got to test yourself against the best because guess what?

01:43:22.000 You don't even know how good you are.

01:43:24.000 You won't know until you face another guy.

01:43:26.000 Like I said this the other day when I was in the UK. I said everybody wants to be a lion when there's no lions around.

01:43:32.000 You can be a lion in the company of hyenas.

01:43:36.000 But when you're facing another lion, now we're going to see what you're really working with.

01:43:40.000 Yeah.

01:43:41.000 Everybody's a soldier when there's no wars going on.

01:43:44.000 But when a war happens, now we're going to see what you're made of.

01:43:46.000 I would just like to see at a certain point in time, I get making money, I get the political stuff that's going on, but at some point in time, if your pupil is going to say that they're the best, you've got to face the best.

01:43:59.000 So we can really see who's who.

01:44:00.000 Now, if you're not about that life, and you're like, dude, I'm just trying to make as much money for the least amount of risk, I respect it, and at least you made your intentions clear.

01:44:09.000 But you can't have your cake and eat it, too.

01:44:10.000 You can't say you're the best, but not fight the best.

01:44:12.000 You gotta face the best at some point in time.

01:44:15.000 I like what boxing does in that the managers dictate who the fighters fight and that they do build their fighters up correctly.

01:44:23.000 And one of the things that bothers me about MMA is I think there's some really good young fighters who get ruined because they get thrown to the wolves too quickly and they wind up getting their confidence shattered, they get knocked out maybe when they shouldn't be.

01:44:37.000 They're fighting a caliber of fighter they're not prepared for.

01:44:40.000 For every one fighter like that, you know, there's always the arguments of a guy like Jon Jones, youngest ever light heavyweight champion, youngest ever UFC champion.

01:44:48.000 Fights a legend, Mauricio Shogun, who when he was 22 or 23, I think he was 23 years old, opens up with a flying knee, hits him in the face, beats the fuck out of him, and takes the title.

01:44:59.000 For every Jon Jones, there's a guy who's coming up that maybe could have been a world champion, but didn't get managed correctly, and the UFC doesn't give you any options.

01:45:08.000 The UFC says, hey, you want to fight Kamaru Usman?

01:45:11.000 Okay, here's your fight.

01:45:12.000 This is it.

01:45:13.000 It's a trade-off, right?

01:45:14.000 So the fans get the big fights, but in the wake of how many careers?

01:45:18.000 Yes, that's the trade-off.

01:45:19.000 The fans get the big fights.

01:45:20.000 But I don't think...

01:45:22.000 We necessarily see the highest caliber of fighter fight, the highest caliber of fighter with the best case scenario at all times.

01:45:33.000 Do you know what I'm saying?

01:45:34.000 I don't think we get to see the most out of some of these guys.

01:45:38.000 Because I think that if they were managed, if there was a ton of different promoters around, and you weren't locked in any specific sort of an organization like the UFC has, I think you could see more managers saying, Hey man, you're not ready for Robbie Lawler.

01:45:52.000 Hey man, you're not ready for this guy.

01:45:53.000 We're going to take this fight on a regional level.

01:45:56.000 We're going to build you up.

01:45:57.000 We're going to get you to 15, 16-0.

01:46:00.000 Then we're going to start challenging some top 10 contenders and cement your place.

01:46:03.000 But this way...

01:46:05.000 You'll have seen all the looks.

01:46:06.000 You'll have seen a great wrestler.

01:46:07.000 You'll have seen a great striker.

01:46:09.000 You fought a Muay Thai champion.

01:46:11.000 You fought a jiu-jitsu guy.

01:46:12.000 You know how to handle all these different scenarios.

01:46:14.000 And in MMA, that is part of the problem is that it's not just your hands.

01:46:18.000 There's so many different scenarios that you have to deal with.

01:46:21.000 It's like the J.G. Wentworth commercial.

01:46:23.000 I need my money now.

01:46:26.000 That's what it is.

01:46:28.000 And Tony White's like, bro, I need to get paid now.

01:46:30.000 Right now, you hot.

01:46:31.000 You up and coming.

01:46:32.000 I can't find a better matchup.

01:46:33.000 Let's make it happen.

01:46:34.000 The UFC will throw a guy on his UFC debut against a guy who's a world-class contender.

01:46:39.000 And you'll watch him get lit up like a Christmas tree.

01:46:41.000 And I'm not a fan of that, man.

01:46:42.000 I'm a fan of, again, seasoning, make sure you're ready.

01:46:45.000 But it's like in boxing, man.

01:46:47.000 And not everybody.

01:46:48.000 Like, if you look at the light heavyweight division, it's one of the hottest and the most willing divisions for guys to face each other.

01:46:53.000 Also one of the most rushing.

01:46:55.000 Yeah, it is.

01:46:55.000 That's crazy how rushing that division is.

01:46:57.000 They spit them out.

01:46:58.000 Woo! 0.99

01:46:59.000 They spit them out.

01:47:00.000 But if you look at some of these other divisions, it's like, man, dude, how many posts can you have where you're saying that you're the best, but yet you're refusing to fight the best?

01:47:10.000 But there is a thing about social media, though, where these guys can self-promote in a way that's never really been available before.

01:47:16.000 It's all good, but just don't expect everybody to buy it.

01:47:19.000 Right.

01:47:20.000 Well, as a champion, you value that title the best.

01:47:25.000 And also as a guy who's stoic.

01:47:27.000 If a guy doesn't care about it...

01:47:29.000 Then we're not going to bother you.

01:47:31.000 But when you bring that light on yourself, now we want to have you back up what you're saying.

01:47:36.000 Well, that's one of the reasons why the UFC takes this strategy.

01:47:39.000 They give a young fighter a fight.

01:47:40.000 You think you're a beast? 0.89

01:47:42.000 Okay, we're going to throw you into the beasts.

01:47:44.000 You might have four or five professional fights.

01:47:46.000 And occasionally, guys get through and you realize, wow, this guy truly is special.

01:47:50.000 That's the philosophy of the UFC, is put together the best fights all the time.

01:47:54.000 Like every card, they want murderers fighting murderers.

01:47:57.000 And I see that from a promotional perspective, it's brilliant.

01:48:01.000 And from a fan perspective, it's brilliant.

01:48:03.000 But from a person who values a fighter's development, I would go, ooh, if I was a manager, I'd go, don't take that fight.

01:48:11.000 Don't take that fight.

01:48:12.000 Not yet.

01:48:14.000 It's like Tyson Fury getting ready to fight Otto Valin.

01:48:17.000 Another tune-up fight, right?

01:48:19.000 People are like, oh, well, listen.

01:48:22.000 Wileen is a good fighter.

01:48:23.000 We'll see how good he is.

01:48:24.000 But you also have to look at Tyson Fury and everything he came off of.

01:48:29.000 Drugging and boozing and just on the brink of disaster.

01:48:31.000 Personal disaster.

01:48:33.000 Give him a couple fights to get the rest off.

01:48:36.000 So when he does face Wilder, it's an even better fight.

01:48:39.000 Why is Wilder fighting Luis Ortiz?

01:48:42.000 Listen, give it some time.

01:48:43.000 So it's not that we're trying to sell these fights individually, but we're selling the package deal.

01:48:48.000 You support these guys?

01:48:49.000 Yeah.

01:48:49.000 You want to see the rematch?

01:48:50.000 Yeah.

01:48:51.000 We're going to get a better fight if you let them go through the maturation process.

01:48:54.000 Wilder's trying to stall and wait for Tyson Fury to get what he needs to get out of the way.

01:48:59.000 Tyson's trying to get a little bit more rust off so it could be a better fight than it was the first time.

01:49:03.000 And sometimes fans don't see that.

01:49:05.000 And like you said, to your point, We as broadcasters and writers, we have to educate the people a little bit.

01:49:12.000 They still may not like it, but at least we have to present the facts and say, this is why we're seeing this right now.

01:49:17.000 You do a fantastic job of that.

01:49:19.000 I try, man.

01:49:19.000 You really do.

01:49:20.000 I try.

01:49:21.000 I try.

01:49:22.000 You know, I'm trying to, you know.

01:49:24.000 Just continue to keep on keeping on, man.

01:49:26.000 But again, I got a great team.

01:49:28.000 I had a great team at HBO. Again, still can't believe they're not in the business.

01:49:33.000 And I still keep in contact with a lot of those guys.

01:49:35.000 And then what we have at ESPN, man, is just different, man.

01:49:38.000 Our lead producer, like I said, Mike McQuaid.

01:49:43.000 In past times, I would just show up to the site location on a Thursday night.

01:49:50.000 Fighter meetings, production meeting on Friday.

01:49:53.000 Saturday is the fight.

01:49:54.000 I go home Sunday.

01:49:56.000 Now, we have a production call the week of a fight on Tuesday, probably an hour long.

01:50:01.000 We're constantly texting and sending emails of information.

01:50:05.000 Either Joe Tess is challenging us in this area, or Tim's sending an article, or I'm sending something, or Bernardo's sending something, or Mark Crick.

01:50:14.000 It's just on another level right now.

01:50:16.000 And I think that's why people get the production that they're getting.

01:50:19.000 No, you can tell.

01:50:20.000 You can tell.

01:50:21.000 You can tell in the actual fight itself while you guys are doing the commentary that you guys are buttoned down and locked up.

01:50:27.000 I mean, it's all your...

01:50:28.000 T's are crossed and your I's are dotted.

01:50:31.000 It's a performance business, baby.

01:50:32.000 Yes, it is.

01:50:33.000 No, you're approaching that the same way you approached your fight career.

01:50:36.000 I don't know any other way.

01:50:38.000 I don't know any other way.

01:50:39.000 When you're doing it, though...

01:50:41.000 I mean, you're 20...

01:50:43.000 How many months out of your last fight?

01:50:45.000 When you're doing it, though, there's gotta be an itch sometimes.

01:50:49.000 There's gotta be an itch.

01:50:50.000 It's not gonna go away.

01:50:51.000 How do you just accept the fact that you have that itch?

01:50:56.000 Is there a part of you that thinks there's a 10% chance you might make a comeback?

01:51:01.000 Do you have a number in your head?

01:51:02.000 Yeah, it's whatever percent it is.

01:51:04.000 And then I wake up and I start hearing a pop, pop, boom, boom, my knees in my back.

01:51:08.000 And I'm like, ah, bro, that's why I retired.

01:51:10.000 That's why.

01:51:11.000 So that discourages me quick, man.

01:51:15.000 Do you still exercise?

01:51:16.000 Yeah, I got to stay fit.

01:51:17.000 Do you hit the bag?

01:51:19.000 I haven't done a boxing thing, but I think I'm going to do it.

01:51:22.000 It's weird.

01:51:23.000 Part of me has done it for my whole life, so I'm kind of burnt out.

01:51:27.000 And then the other part of me is like, dude, I don't want to miss it.

01:51:30.000 I want to do something else.

01:51:31.000 So I do a lot of spinning, spinning class.

01:51:34.000 You take spin classes?

01:51:35.000 I take spin classes, but then I also have a Peloton at my house.

01:51:39.000 I have the Peloton treadmill and the Peloton spinning bike.

01:51:42.000 Versaclimber.

01:51:43.000 I love that thing.

01:51:44.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:51:45.000 So I do a lot of alternative stuff, but I think I'm going to get back in it because it's a great way to just keep the weight off.

01:51:50.000 And after two years, I think I'm ready to start hitting the bag again, man.

01:51:54.000 Mike Tyson says he can't.

01:51:55.000 He said he doesn't want to.

01:51:57.000 He says if he starts hitting the pads again and hitting the bag again, well, even at 50, he says his ego starts firing up again and he starts thinking about it.

01:52:04.000 I feel him.

01:52:05.000 Nazeem Richardson, legendary trainer out of Philly.

01:52:08.000 He put it to me like this, like last year sometime.

01:52:12.000 He said, somebody asked him, like, man, you think?

01:52:15.000 Like, we interviewed him for my doc.

01:52:16.000 And, um...

01:52:19.000 My boy Deontay, who's the director, he said, listen, do you think Dre's ever going to come back?

01:52:23.000 He said, you know what?

01:52:24.000 He said, I don't think so.

01:52:27.000 He said, you got to realize Andre hasn't lost in a long time.

01:52:32.000 He said, as soon as he starts looking at retirement like an opponent, I think he's going to be just fine.

01:52:36.000 And I never looked at it like that before.

01:52:39.000 But then when I finally understood what he was saying, it's like...

01:52:42.000 That's what I'm fighting against right now.

01:52:43.000 So just like a regular opponent, I studied retirement, right?

01:52:46.000 Like I said earlier, the highs and the lows, the good, the bad stories.

01:52:50.000 Just like when I'm fighting a fight, I got my supporters and I got my detractors.

01:52:55.000 I got people saying, man, hey man, stay going, bro.

01:52:56.000 Way to get out on top. 0.73

01:52:57.000 I miss you, but man, hey man, I'm happy you did it like that.

01:52:59.000 Then I got people saying, oh, he's coming back.

01:53:01.000 All fighters come back.

01:53:03.000 Just like I was in a real fight, I wanted to win that battle, right?

01:53:06.000 This is a battle that I want to win too.

01:53:08.000 So I'm looking at retirement like an opponent right now.

01:53:12.000 And my last, you know, I don't know how many years I've been doing pretty good against opponents, so I like my chances.

01:53:18.000 I like your chances too, and I think you're very important for the sport.

01:53:22.000 I think you're an important, shining example of what's possible.

01:53:25.000 What's possible both with your accomplishments and also what's possible with walking away with all your marbles intact, man.

01:53:32.000 So thank you for everything, brother.

01:53:33.000 Thank you for doing this.

01:53:34.000 I really appreciate it.

01:53:35.000 I'll go, bro.

01:53:36.000 Thank you, man.

01:53:37.000 Bye, everybody.

01:53:38.000 It was great, man.

The Joe Rogan Experience - February 08, 2011

JRE MMA Show #78 with Andre Ward

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript