Andre Ward is a two-time Olympic Gold Medalist, multiple world champion, and two-division world champion who retired at the age of 33. In this episode, Andre talks about his career, his retirement from the sport of boxing, and why he decided to hang up his gloves for good. Andre also talks about why he left the sport at 33 years old and what it was like stepping down as a champion at that point in his career. Andre also discusses why he chose to retire and why it was important for him to do so, and what he plans to do next in life after his retirement. Andre's retirement is scheduled for September 21st, 2019, but I think it's safe to say it'll be a little bit different than most people would expect. I hope you enjoy this episode and that it gives you some insight into what it's like to be a professional athlete in the modern era of the modern sport of mixed martial arts. I know it's not easy being in the sport, but it's definitely not as hard as it seems like it is in the olden days. -Jon Bones Jones - "The People's Champion" - "Too Effing Good" - - "The Realest Man in the World" - Jon Bones Jones - "Dancing in My Mind" - The Realest Guy in the Universe - "Ladies and Gents" -- "The Greatest Athlete I've Ever Loved" - John McCain - "I Can't Believe I'm Not Better" -- "I'm Not Good Enough" -- "I'll See You Soon" -- - John Wooden - "You're Too Good" -- What's My Best?" -- "Let's Talk About It? -- "Too Good For This?" -- "You Don't Have It? -- or "Not Good Enough? " -- "You Can't Be Better Than That?" --"I'll Tell Me What I'm Gonna Do It?" -- What Would You Do Next -- "Can I Do It Better Than This?" - "Let Me Say It? " or "I Don't Think I'm Too Good, Will I Have A Better Next Time -- Or Will I Do This Or Won't I'll Think I'll Do It Or Not Have It Or I'll Have A Good Day Next Time?" -- Or "I Won't Stop Trying To Do It Next Time? "Or I'll Figure Out My Next Day?" --
00:00:42.000I mean, it sounds all neat and buttoned up, but it wasn't that easy.
00:00:48.000Like, I didn't know how things were going to go throughout the course of my career.
00:00:51.000But for whatever reason, like, I always, even as a young kid, I'm talking 10 years old, like, I had this thought, like, you know, I don't want to end up like a lot of fighters end up.
00:01:01.000Like, they seem to go high, really high, and then all of a sudden they come crashing down.
00:01:06.000Like, they start well, but they don't end well.
00:01:09.000That's what drew me to Roy Jones Jr. Country boy, had swag, and he'd always talk about himself in the third person.
00:01:16.000He'd be like, man, you know, Roy Jones, I don't love a sport like that, man.
00:02:52.000There's a lot of different reasons why people do that, man.
00:02:55.000I just didn't want to be one of them, simply put.
00:02:58.000But the retirement is coming up on two years, September 21st.
00:03:02.000It's harder than I thought it was going to be.
00:03:04.000One of the most hardest things I've ever had to do, but one of the most rewarding.
00:03:07.000And the way I reconcile it in my brain is that, okay...
00:03:10.000At some point, I'm going to have to do this.
00:03:12.000At some point, I'm going to have to face the emotions and the pull to come back and, you know, trying to figure out if your body can still do it and just all the different things you go through, whether I'm in my prime or whether I'm 40, 45 years old.
00:05:02.000But when Bernard started putting it on him, I was like, wow, this is, first of all, this is like a legitimate middleweight fighting guy who's really a welterweight.
00:05:10.000And this is also a really special fighter who just figures people out.
00:05:15.000He fought Tito in New York City, in Madison Square Garden, which is little Puerto Rico.
00:05:24.000And previously to that fight in Puerto Rico, Bernard Hopkins took the Puerto Rican flag, threw it down, caused a melee, had to run out of there, get snatched out of the arena, wherever they were having a press conference, get thrown on the plane.
00:06:17.000You know, it's interesting when you watch his style as well, that very technical, very disciplined style versus Roy's style, which was so athletic and explosive and very unusual with that lead left hook that he would fire off more than a jab.
00:06:33.000And then you watch Roy outpoint Bernard early, but then Bernard comes back later in his career and really kind of like shut Roy down and showed like when the athleticism starts to slip away a little bit, Roy is normal.
00:07:01.000You can get away with being Roy Jones Jr. But Roy Jones Jr., with his physical gifts, I feel like he could have got away with fighting discipline, too.
00:07:08.000He could have got away with fighting technically.
00:07:10.000But, you know, he just chose to fight his way.
00:07:31.000He could have gone and had a full career and rode off in the sunset and been in Pensacola fishing, hunting, doing whatever he does, and still not really been super fundamentally sound.
00:07:43.000But, I mean, after he beat John Ruiz for the Heavyweight Championship of the World, and I had been going to multiple Roy fights leading up to that heavyweight fight, Antonio Tarver, who I have a lot of respect for, you know, they were rivals in Florida when they were young.
00:07:58.000Antonio was following Roy around, trying to get him to notice him, trying to get him to take a fight.
00:08:03.000And I remember clear as day, in the post-fight press conference, after Roy became the heavyweight champion of the world, after being the middleweight champion, starting at 160, Antonio Tarver interrupted the press conference.
00:08:16.000He said, Roy Jones, you've been ducking me, you've been running.
00:15:00.000When you think about a career as a heavyweight fighter, too, and all the heavy blows that that guy took, whatever mental problems he might have had were certainly compounded.
00:15:13.000You know, you had an amazing career, but one of the things that I think maybe people aren't as aware of, makes your career even more incredible, is that you fought for a long time with a bad shoulder.
00:15:25.000Like, if you go back and watch the Carl Frotch fight, I watched that, getting ready for this, I watched it again, you boxed the shit out of him with mostly your left hand.
00:15:57.000We just rehabbed it with, you know, bands and strengthening exercises, but we never had surgery, so that was always kind of my Achilles heel, man.
00:16:04.000Like, there's been plenty of fights where I just fought one-handed because it didn't feel strong.
00:18:41.000It had to be, but one of the things you were so good at, man, was, I don't have to tell you, you know this, was using your jab to shut down southpaw fighters, shut down their jab and counter.
00:18:53.000You know, and you just had that, you had like extra juice with your left hand because you used it so much.
00:19:00.000When you have one hand or one arm that functions really well, you learn to make that thing great.
00:19:05.000You overcompensate, and that's what that left hand was, overcompensation because I didn't have the right hand to fall back on.
00:19:10.000But the whole Southpaw thing, shout out to my boy Nick and Nate Diaz and all the work we've done in camp.
00:19:17.000Those guys got me ready for a lot of my Southpaw opponents midway through and toward the end of my career.
00:19:23.000A lot of work with those guys, and specifically Nate.
00:19:25.000At a certain point, I stopped working with Nick because he was doing other things, but Nate, man, and the volume and having to deal with the awkwardness and the height and the reach, that got me ready for Chad Dawson.
00:20:14.000I mean, I don't know why they couldn't see it.
00:20:17.000I mean, Conor obviously was, you know, he was a little bit different and he brought what he brought to the table, but probably would have been a good thing to try to balance them both out, show love to Nate.
00:20:25.000But, you know, he was like the rebel child.
00:20:27.000You know, he'd say whatever came to his mind and, you know, the powers that be, they don't like that.
00:20:31.000I think he was a little overshadowed by his brother, too, because, you know, when your brother's a superstar, there's something about, I mean, and especially, like, his brother, when he was fighting in Strikeforce, in particular, was one of the best fighters in the world.
00:20:43.000And then, you know, especially, like, you know, during, like, his title reign, like, when he was at his peak when he was fighting in Strikeforce.
00:20:52.000But for whatever reason, they just, you know, Nate just flew under the radar.
00:23:03.000The problem that we have is we've ostracized the master of the game.
00:23:08.000Instead of articulating what we're seeing or trying to articulate what we're seeing and leaving it right there, let it be what it is and let the fans decide what they like and don't like.
00:23:17.000We've tried to tell the fans what they should.
00:25:19.000One thing he used to always tell me, and I never looked at it like that, he was like, son, my sole purpose, my main focus is to get you home safe to your family.
00:25:26.000He said it's not for us to win championships.
00:25:28.000It's not for you to be all everything.
00:25:30.000It's to get you home to Tiffany and those kids safely.
00:25:33.000And when he said that, it just put it all in perspective for me.
00:25:37.000He wants to win, but not at the expense of my health.
00:25:40.000And because he taught me the right way, we got the wins and the belts and everything anyway, and then I was also able to go home to my family.
00:26:10.000You took that punch and you just went...
00:26:12.000Turned and just went back to your corner like it never happened like you just just wiped it clean like that's not gonna benefit me to get upset here.
00:26:19.000How did you develop that kind of composure?
00:26:23.000I think one thing that my dad and Verge did really well for me and my brother Jonathan who box with me for many years They gave us mental reps.
00:26:34.000Like I'd be driving in the car or riding in the car with Verge or my dad and they'd be telling me, listen, man, when you get in that ring, when you spar today, man, listen, I do try to hit you low.
00:26:46.000Like this is these are things that I was taught.
00:26:48.000I was like I was taught to be a warrior at a young age.
00:26:52.000And oftentimes trainers will train the body, but they don't train the mind.
00:26:56.000So, plus, and also life experiences, things that I've been through with my mom, my dad, and just all that kind of stuff, plus my internal makeup, the way God made me.
00:27:05.000All of that combined, I never had to be the loudest talker in the room because I knew that...
00:27:12.000All the stuff, the real stuff, it's in me.
00:28:41.000But from the time the first fight ended until the time the second fight started, I learned more about that guy in that period of time than I did in any round that I fought him in.
00:33:26.000And also the torque, you know, there was so much distance between like the length of his arms, the width of his shoulders, and then blap when that punch would come in.
00:33:53.000He beat a lot of guys in their hometowns, home countries, and that's a reason why.
00:33:57.000At a certain point in the fight, you would see him hit a guy, and then all of a sudden their body language was different.
00:34:02.000And I think one thing that was lost on my whole career that nobody ever talked about was I probably had one of the best chins in the sport of boxing over the last, you know, at that time, 10 years.
00:34:10.000Like, I had beaten the best, the heaviest punchers in the game and in my weight class.
00:34:15.000Like, if you look at Kovalev, out of all the damage that he's done in the light heavyweight division, he had 20 rounds.
00:35:12.000Like, I remember being curled up, like, in a ball on a Southwest flight, coming back from Lenexa, Kansas, losing the last fight I ever lost against John Revish.
00:36:02.000Three judges went his way, two judges went my way.
00:36:04.000But if I was honest with myself, I got beat before the fight.
00:36:08.000And at that moment, like, feeling the way I felt coming home, I made up my mind, like, dude, as much as that's up to me, like, that's never going to happen again.
00:36:19.000Like, I can't control every aspect of the fight game.
00:36:21.000Stuff happens, but it's not going to be because you beat me before the fight.
00:36:31.000And then here's the thing about boxing.
00:36:34.000I don't know about MMA, but the only sport that I know of where one loss changes your pay scale.
00:36:41.000Like, if you have a minimum, like, hey, you win a title, your first defense is this, second defense is that, these are your minimums, we'll negotiate beyond that, you know, whatever, whatever.
00:37:07.000So I'd get in the ring, you know, before the first bell would ring, and I'd go around and kind of just feel the ring out and kind of look out, and I'd always see them looking.
00:38:02.000It is amazing how much energy people get from haters.
00:38:06.000I mean, I don't recommend reading negative comments or negative articles.
00:38:12.000But it's amazing how people with a certain kind of resolve, a championship resolve, will take that hater shit and you'll get up 15 minutes earlier than you're supposed to.
00:38:20.000And you'll have more intensity in your shadowboxing and you'll just push harder.
00:42:44.000So the Super 6 tournament, though, was where people knew you were an Olympic gold medalist, but that was where, like, coming into that, who was the favorite?
00:42:55.000The favorite was kind of like threefold, but it was Kessler.
00:43:00.000Arthur Abraham was dominant at 160. He had just moved up to 68, so everybody felt like it was a foregone conclusion that he was going to dominate at the heavier weight class.
00:43:09.000Carl Frotch was the WBC champion, but he was still kind of like relatively unknown.
00:43:13.000Like, you know, he had potential, had a belt, but, you know, he was probably, you know, I don't know, the third favorite.
00:44:54.000So we pack up, we drive two or three hours to San Diego, get on a flight, drive my family back to the Bay Area, boom, drop them off, get on a flight of Red Eye that night, double ear infection, wake up in Germany, and that was their second stop, but that was my first stop.
00:45:08.000And that's when I really got the revelation that, man, this is a joke.
00:45:12.000They think that me, Darrell, and Taylor, we're just going to...
00:45:16.000That's when I took exception and I was when I really kind of like realized the dude like this is either this is gonna be a sink or swim moment for you either you gonna get like I could have got ruined in the super six like it could have went a whole nother way or What I knew was in me was gonna be you know displayed and shown to the world and so when you beat Kessler and you won your first title that had to be a beautiful moment unreal unreal unreal and it was in my hometown Like
00:45:47.000the same arena, Oracle Arena, where the Warriors have played for many, many years.
00:48:08.000I credit my faith in God and just feeling like there was a purpose for me to be in the game as the foundational reason.
00:48:14.000But the practical reason was I've been dealing with pressure since I've been a baby.
00:48:20.000Having two parents who were drug addicted at a young age, and one is a functional addict, and my dad, who raised me as a single parent, and then my mother was a full-blown addict for many, many years.
00:49:56.000When you fought for the world title in that very arena where he said you were going to be headlining when you were like 12, 13 years old, what the fuck was that like?
00:50:07.000You're just trying to manage your emotions.
00:50:09.000I remember the night before the fight, I had my guy, Jack, Edward Jackson, man, who's a great coach, great assistant, great strength and conditioning coach, boxing coach from Houston, Texas.
00:51:48.000You don't want to be on the canvas, but if you happen to find yourself there, you want to know that your team has what it takes, and you want to know that you have what it takes.
00:54:01.000But don't you think that's inherent with boxing when there's certain people that don't ever want to accept defeat no matter what and when there's a situation where there's a possible reason why they lost that didn't sort of fit into the rule books like he hit me low or they stopped it too soon or the Kovalev fight you know like the second fight in particular like the first fight maybe he could make an argument That he thinks he should have won a decision, but the second fight.
00:54:27.000I mean, he wasn't jumping up, looking to beat that eight count, dust his gloves off, and get back at it.
00:55:05.000But if you're trying to dethrone me or beat me from a foul, I'm coming to get that back.
00:55:10.000Why all of a sudden, all the people that said that you're not going to beat Kovalev, look what he did to this guy, he's going to do the same thing to you, you're too small.
00:55:19.000Those are the same people coming to the rescue of a guy whose nickname is a crusher and who's menacing and all the stuff I've been saying.
00:57:46.000I didn't do anything for three months after that fight.
00:57:49.000I remember going to speak to my pastor about it because he did the same thing.
00:57:53.000He was all everything at UW, played six years in the league, and all of a sudden, boom, one day he was like, I'm done, and never looked back.
00:58:00.000So I went and sat with him, and I was like, man, pastor, I don't know, man.
01:01:46.000She said, I think the decision is already made.
01:01:47.000She said, I've been looking at you throughout this whole day and some of the stuff you've been saying and I've never really seen you like this.
01:02:38.000And the night before I announced it, man, me and my good friend, who's a director, he's also directing my doc, Deontay Thompson, we put together this video.
01:02:49.000It was like a legacy video where I had my young son, my middle son, and my oldest son.
01:02:54.000And those were like, you know, that was me at that point in time in my career.
01:02:58.000And we did this whole video that I was going to announce my retirement with.
01:03:02.000And I actually have the doc that I'm working on right now.
01:03:27.000I'm looking at these rest in peace, like, not literal rest in peace, but, like, the comments were, like, rest in peace, like, bro, are you, I couldn't believe, man, I'm, what, like, Ward, not you, man, oh my god, man, and it was just, it was, like, just this huge reaction, and it was overwhelming,
01:03:44.000and in the two years that followed, Like I said at the beginning of this podcast, harder than I thought it was going to be, one of the hardest, if not the hardest thing I've ever had to do and still have to do.
01:03:59.000It's a daily decision to be like, I'm not doing it no more.
01:05:01.000I mean, it's just sad when you see these guys just still try to do it over and over and over again until the same story keeps repeating itself.
01:05:11.000When a guy like you, it was only Hagler before you.
01:05:34.000Having those guys like you is so important for young fighters because they get told by the assholes, hey, all fighters are going to wind up with brain damage.
01:05:44.000All fighters are going to wind up going out on their back.
01:05:46.000They're all going to wind up coming back after their prime.
01:05:49.000It's so important for guys like you to say, you know, no, you can manage it correctly.
01:05:57.000But if you stay on the rocks and you do your due diligence and you put in the work and your discipline and you fight correctly, I agree with you so wholeheartedly about appreciation of the masters.
01:06:50.000I don't give a fuck how many of these drunken assholes cheer you on.
01:06:53.000They're not gonna be with you when you wake up in the morning, your head is pounding in your head, when you have a hard time looking at light, when you have to have all the shades closed, when just a little crack of light coming in through the shade is hurting you.
01:07:07.000They're not going to be there with you when you're old.
01:07:09.000Verge used to always put it like this, and this has shut a lot of people down.
01:07:11.000He said, man, let me ask you a question.
01:07:12.000He'd do this to reporters and stuff, like if there was an open workout.
01:07:15.000He knew there was a particular reporter in there that was, you know, rah, rah, and, you know, talking down against, you know, guys who could box.
01:07:28.000If you wanted your son to box, and it was two guys at the gym, And one coach said, hey man, I'm going to teach your son how to hit and not get hit.
01:08:23.000I'm not trying to, you know, execute this game plan today.
01:08:26.000I'm just going to try to keep a tight defense and just go to war.
01:08:28.000Those are my, those are my, like, my lazy days.
01:08:32.000When you got to, like, embody, like, A game plan and then round after round, even when things aren't going your way, try to stick to that game plan.
01:11:19.000Do you think he's going to go about it again?
01:11:21.000Because there's talk of other fighters, there's talk of, I mean, he goes through money like water, and he's got a fuckload of it, but goddamn he loves to spend it, and he's had some financial troubles in the past because of his flashy lifestyle.
01:11:34.000But his skill and his overall boxing ability and his ability to talk shit and generate interest have pulled him out of these problems.
01:11:58.000Selfishly, I would love to see it, but realistically, I think he's good.
01:12:01.000The only thing I could think would maybe talk him out of it is if there was something that could generate a massive amount of money, like a Pacquiao fight.
01:12:12.000Like a Pacquiao fight, you know, Pacquiao still, I mean, after he beat Keith Thurman, like, whoo!
01:14:40.000But when you look at what Canelo does, like when he knocked out Amir Khan, he's that, you know, he, that motherfucker could put some heat on some punches.
01:15:01.000And you could see in that fight, him realizing as the fight was going on, like, oh, fuck, I'm on another level of this video game, and I don't know how to beat this boss.
01:15:11.000Floyd was just shutting him down and just doing beautiful things.
01:15:15.000For people who appreciate boxing, that's one of the best fights to watch because you've got this murderous young upstart who's a devastating puncher, who's a big, strong kid, who's just tough as fuck.
01:15:25.000He just embraces that Mexican style of fighting pressure, a lot of power, moving forward.
01:16:30.000So you understand when you're seeing a masterful performance, you understand that the general public really doesn't understand what's happening.
01:17:51.000Listen, man, if I'm a casual fan, why am I going to stick around?
01:17:54.000The fight is over the casual, not the hardcore fan.
01:17:57.000So, We make, you know, a guy who can hit and not get hit, like it's some, you know, some super, like this is some special thing that, you know, you got to be really, really smart to understand.
01:18:55.000There's a way that sports people write, and there's a way that sports people do commentary where it's very negative, and they like to call people bums.
01:19:06.000There's an appeal to a certain kind of fan, and it's very profitable to be very negative and to talk about a certain way.
01:19:16.000I made a very conscious decision when I started doing commentary to celebrate these fighters and to try to honor their hard work and what they're doing and to let people know how spectacular it is to me someone who loves the sport.
01:19:31.000And I stay away from negative as much as possible unless it's absolutely negative to talk about.
01:19:38.000To show, like, maybe someone would have to make some egregious error for me to say, don't ever do this.
01:19:47.000When I talk about these guys, I want people to feel how I feel when I watch, if I watch Demetrius Mighty Mouse Johnson, who's one of my favorite of all time, and one of the things about Demetrius, to me, that's so spectacular, was that he was able to fight these amazing fighters and make them look like they had no business being in there with him.
01:20:08.000His movement, his arsenal, His technique.
01:21:28.000I think also what's hurt, and I think we do a great job at ESPN with my crew.
01:21:34.000Well, you guys have replaced the best, which used to be HBO. When HBO went away, man, I was like, I can't believe they're getting out of the boxing game.
01:21:54.000That's one thing that we try to stress.
01:21:56.000You know, our lead producer, Mike McQuaid, Joe Tessitore, Tim Bradley, Mark Kriegel, Bernardo Asuna, Christina Poncho.
01:22:02.000Like, we are trying to be fair and objective, but yet truthful.
01:22:08.000And everybody has a reverence for the guys that are getting in there.
01:22:12.000And with all of that on the table, then we try to call it from that point.
01:22:15.000What's happening in past times, and even a little bit still today, is personal agendas, personal issues spill over into the commentary or into the article that's being written.
01:22:27.000If you don't like Floyd's lifestyle, I don't ascribe to Floyd's lifestyle, but that's not my business.
01:22:43.000But people would take the lifestyle and things that was, oh, Floyd, no, man, you're letting that spill over into this, and now you're messing up this broadcast right now because Floyd's doing something and we're not acknowledging it, and it's clear that you don't like him.
01:23:05.000Well, it's so interesting, too, to see a guy like you who is a former two-division world champion and an Olympic gold medalist who also transitions to be an excellent broadcaster because there's only been a few.
01:23:17.000George Foreman, I love him to death, but he was odd when he was doing commentary.
01:24:58.000And then we got our guy Mark Kriegel doing the personal stories and digging in guys' background.
01:25:03.000Probably the best storyteller that I know that's out right now.
01:25:06.000Well, it's so interesting, this ESPN Plus thing, and the Zone, and these streaming services that have come along that have sort of changed everything.
01:25:14.000I mean, I don't worry about taping anything anymore.
01:25:17.000I know I'm going to go home, and I'm either going to watch them on my phone if I'm out.
01:25:22.000Like, I was at dinner with my wife, and I was sneaking fights in the bathroom.
01:25:52.000My daughter had this event that she was going to, and as soon as it was over, I ran upstairs, and I pull out the phone, and I'm watching fights.
01:26:36.000But what we're doing at ESPN, man, I think it's unmatched.
01:26:39.000Yeah, I think ESPN is fantastic right now, and I appreciate DAZN as well.
01:26:42.000I mean, boxing is in an amazing place right now.
01:26:45.000There's so many elite fighters, and there's a lot of hype on the sport right now.
01:26:49.000There's people that are very excited about it, people that are casual fans.
01:26:52.000Look, the Tyson Fury-Deontay Wilder fight did more for heavyweight boxing than I think any fight in recent memory.
01:26:58.000When Deontay knocked him down in the 12th round, and Tyson Fury rose like Lazarus, and you're like, holy shit, this fight's still going on?
01:29:41.000But hopefully they take care of business and we get the rematch.
01:29:44.000Well, I hope neither fighter looks past, particularly Deontay and Ortiz, because Ortiz hit him with some fucking bombs in that first fight and had him hurt, man.
01:31:42.000And I decided at that point, as I was running down the street, I was like, I am never going to get emotionally attached to a fighter again.
01:31:48.000I'm never going to put all my eggs in one basket.
01:36:15.000But to see Roy, the Tarver fight was hard to watch, but Tarver's a great fighter.
01:36:20.000He caught him, he clipped him, he hurt him, he knocked him down.
01:36:23.000They stopped the fight, he couldn't get up.
01:36:25.000But the Glenn Johnson fight was much more terrifying to me because he banged his head off the ground when he went out, and he went out stiff.
01:36:56.000Big left-handed guy, so it's not like out of the question that something like that can happen, but nobody saw that coming with Glenn Johnson.
01:40:40.000Well, Al Heyman and those guys over there, they got all the welterweights.
01:40:45.000So, if you don't, if you're not, you know, if you don't really like the other side, or if you feel some type of way about ESPN and top rank, and you know that Terrence is wanting this fight, why not make him wait a year or two and let your guy, Errol Spence, try to clean out the whole welterweight division?
01:41:03.000Now, he has Sean Porter coming up, and that's not going to be an easy fight for either guy, and I respect it and got a lot of love for both.
01:41:08.000But they're trying to squeeze him out.
01:41:10.000So, they're looking at us like, yeah, I hear you.
01:41:12.000You want that fight, but we got bigger plans.
01:41:15.000I'm going to let my guy amass a bigger following.
01:41:19.000He's got a big following in Dallas, in Jerry's world.
01:43:41.000Everybody's a soldier when there's no wars going on.
01:43:44.000But when a war happens, now we're going to see what you're made of.
01:43:46.000I would just like to see at a certain point in time, I get making money, I get the political stuff that's going on, but at some point in time, if your pupil is going to say that they're the best, you've got to face the best.
01:44:00.000Now, if you're not about that life, and you're like, dude, I'm just trying to make as much money for the least amount of risk, I respect it, and at least you made your intentions clear.
01:44:09.000But you can't have your cake and eat it, too.
01:44:10.000You can't say you're the best, but not fight the best.
01:44:12.000You gotta face the best at some point in time.
01:44:15.000I like what boxing does in that the managers dictate who the fighters fight and that they do build their fighters up correctly.
01:44:23.000And one of the things that bothers me about MMA is I think there's some really good young fighters who get ruined because they get thrown to the wolves too quickly and they wind up getting their confidence shattered, they get knocked out maybe when they shouldn't be.
01:44:37.000They're fighting a caliber of fighter they're not prepared for.
01:44:40.000For every one fighter like that, you know, there's always the arguments of a guy like Jon Jones, youngest ever light heavyweight champion, youngest ever UFC champion.
01:44:48.000Fights a legend, Mauricio Shogun, who when he was 22 or 23, I think he was 23 years old, opens up with a flying knee, hits him in the face, beats the fuck out of him, and takes the title.
01:44:59.000For every Jon Jones, there's a guy who's coming up that maybe could have been a world champion, but didn't get managed correctly, and the UFC doesn't give you any options.
01:45:08.000The UFC says, hey, you want to fight Kamaru Usman?
01:45:34.000I don't think we get to see the most out of some of these guys.
01:45:38.000Because I think that if they were managed, if there was a ton of different promoters around, and you weren't locked in any specific sort of an organization like the UFC has, I think you could see more managers saying, Hey man, you're not ready for Robbie Lawler.
01:45:52.000Hey man, you're not ready for this guy.
01:45:53.000We're going to take this fight on a regional level.
01:47:00.000But if you look at some of these other divisions, it's like, man, dude, how many posts can you have where you're saying that you're the best, but yet you're refusing to fight the best?
01:47:10.000But there is a thing about social media, though, where these guys can self-promote in a way that's never really been available before.
01:47:16.000It's all good, but just don't expect everybody to buy it.
01:49:56.000Now, we have a production call the week of a fight on Tuesday, probably an hour long.
01:50:01.000We're constantly texting and sending emails of information.
01:50:05.000Either Joe Tess is challenging us in this area, or Tim's sending an article, or I'm sending something, or Bernardo's sending something, or Mark Crick.
01:51:57.000He says if he starts hitting the pads again and hitting the bag again, well, even at 50, he says his ego starts firing up again and he starts thinking about it.