The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #8 with Jimmy Smith

00:00:00.000 What are we waiting on?

00:00:00.000 We good?

00:00:01.000 Okay.

00:00:01.000 Oh, sorry.

00:00:04.000 Chatting about kombucha. 1.00

00:00:06.000 I just want to say before this podcast starts, you fucked up, Bellator! 1.00

00:00:10.000 You fucked up. 1.00

00:00:12.000 You fucked up. 1.00

00:00:13.000 I've been telling everybody that Jimmy Smith's the best out there forever, and you let him go. 1.00

00:00:17.000 That's a huge error on their part.

00:00:20.000 We can't talk about anything.

00:00:21.000 It is what it is.

00:00:22.000 It might be some future news.

00:00:24.000 We can't talk about that.

00:00:26.000 But the past is up for discussion.

00:00:29.000 The past is up for discussion.

00:00:30.000 The present's good.

00:00:31.000 I would be thrilled if somehow or another they were able to work it out where Jimmy Smith was at the UFC. We shall see.

00:00:37.000 That would be what I would like to see.

00:00:39.000 We shall see how that goes.

00:00:40.000 I would like to see that.

00:00:40.000 We will.

00:00:42.000 That's a big fuck up. 0.99

00:00:43.000 Yeah, man. 0.99

00:00:44.000 It was, let me say, just a little background.

00:00:47.000 A lot of people have been asking me.

00:00:48.000 I haven't made any real public statements other than...

00:00:50.000 I'm not a Bellator hater, just want to say.

00:00:51.000 Yeah, no.

00:00:52.000 Cross the board.

00:00:52.000 Never been a Bellator hater.

00:00:54.000 Respect.

00:00:55.000 I enjoy watching it.

00:00:56.000 I like the fighters.

00:00:56.000 And I've always told everybody that you were the best out there.

00:00:58.000 Thank you so much.

00:00:59.000 You did an amazing job.

00:01:00.000 I really appreciate that.

00:01:02.000 Number one, yeah, it's not a Bellator thing.

00:01:04.000 I mean, they were great to work with.

00:01:05.000 They were great about the whole breakup thing. 1.00

00:01:07.000 Say fucked up! 1.00

00:01:08.000 Just say it! 1.00

00:01:09.000 Someone say it! 0.98

00:01:10.000 Yeah, so what happened was I had a deal with an option year.

00:01:15.000 And 2018 was my option year.

00:01:17.000 And when I was in Verona, New York, doing the Verona show, my boss sat me down and he said, we're not going to renew 2018. We want a different deal.

00:01:27.000 And when they come to you and say, we want a different deal.

00:01:29.000 They want a downgrade.

00:01:30.000 It's never...

00:01:32.000 When your girlfriend comes to you and says, I want to talk, it's never... 0.99

00:01:35.000 I don't give enough blowjobs. 0.99

00:01:36.000 That's never... 0.99

00:01:38.000 They never say that.

00:01:40.000 I'm going to be a better girlfriend.

00:01:42.000 It's always bad.

00:01:44.000 It's always bad.

00:01:44.000 So, yeah, that was it.

00:01:45.000 When they were like, we want to change the deal around.

00:01:49.000 I was like, okay.

00:01:50.000 They did make an honest effort to keep me.

00:01:53.000 They really tried, but they just...

00:01:57.000 They didn't make an offer that was worth me coming back.

00:01:59.000 And that was pretty much a deal.

00:02:00.000 So it's kind of an amicable, comparatively amicable.

00:02:03.000 It's fascinating to me that in the world of mixed martial arts, professional mixed martial arts, there haven't been that many people that have done what you and I both do.

00:02:12.000 This is a small handful of people.

00:02:14.000 You know what the weird thing is about our job, really?

00:02:17.000 And I mean this from the bottom of my heart.

00:02:20.000 Everybody thinks they've got a guy.

00:02:22.000 It's one of those jobs that everybody thinks they can do.

00:02:24.000 They really go, we'll just throw a fight in and then he'll be able to do it.

00:02:27.000 I've seen I don't know how many that they want to do.

00:02:31.000 Even locker room interviews are going to get an ex-fighter to do that. 1.00

00:02:34.000 It's a job.

00:02:35.000 It's a skill.

00:02:37.000 It's one of those things where everybody thinks they can throw somebody in and do it.

00:02:40.000 I've seen I don't know how many try.

00:02:43.000 It's tough.

00:02:44.000 You really have to work at it or have a knack for it.

00:02:46.000 It's not the kind of thing that You know, it's almost like coaching.

00:02:50.000 I mean, how many times have you heard, I've heard of great, great jujitsu guys, like, he's just not a great coach.

00:02:54.000 He's naturally really good.

00:02:55.000 He's not that good at teaching him because to him it just works.

00:02:58.000 And then you try and it doesn't work.

00:03:00.000 You know, it's one of those things where a great fighter isn't a great coach.

00:03:02.000 Right.

00:03:03.000 Sometimes, yeah.

00:03:04.000 Yeah, a great fighter isn't necessarily a great broadcaster.

00:03:06.000 It just doesn't work that way.

00:03:07.000 Yeah, some guys are just naturally good at it, though.

00:03:09.000 Like, Cormier is naturally fun.

00:03:11.000 Like, when Rose Namajunas knocked out Ioana Jacek, he starts yelling, THUG ROSE! THUG ROSE! Like, that's just pure personality.

00:03:21.000 Like, you either have that in you, or you can't fake yelling out THUG ROSE after Rose Namajunas KOs her. 0.98

00:03:27.000 You can't fake enthusiasm.

00:03:29.000 Right.

00:03:30.000 And that's, I think...

00:03:31.000 Real enthusiasm is contagious, too.

00:03:33.000 If you really care about the sport, there are two things that...

00:03:36.000 Well, three things that we have to do.

00:03:38.000 Number one is to educate people.

00:03:41.000 It's weird because most Americans didn't grow up wrestling.

00:03:44.000 They didn't grow up doing Muay Thai.

00:03:45.000 They didn't grow up doing Jiu Jitsu.

00:03:45.000 So a lot of our sport is, at least partially, we're introducing them to it.

00:03:49.000 My mom doesn't know the difference between a knee bar and a leg lock. 0.98

00:03:51.000 She knows boxing. 0.98

00:03:52.000 She grew up watching boxing.

00:03:53.000 She has a background in that.

00:03:56.000 We have to explain a lot.

00:03:57.000 Number two is we've got to communicate enthusiasm.

00:03:58.000 We're happy to be here.

00:03:59.000 How great this thing is.

00:04:01.000 You should want to be here too.

00:04:03.000 That's number two.

00:04:03.000 Number three is the story.

00:04:05.000 Every fight has a story.

00:04:06.000 And even if we don't tell the story, we at least give them the option of the story.

00:04:11.000 Was Buster Douglas always a great fighter?

00:04:13.000 And we didn't know it.

00:04:14.000 Did he have one great night?

00:04:16.000 Was Mike Tyson unprepared that night?

00:04:17.000 Was Mike Tyson not as good as we thought he was?

00:04:19.000 We were literally just talking about that in the last podcast.

00:04:22.000 About how Buster Douglas' mom died.

00:04:23.000 Yeah.

00:04:24.000 Before the fight.

00:04:25.000 And he was just motivated like he'd never been motivated before.

00:04:28.000 Got himself in really good shape and had a mission.

00:04:30.000 Right.

00:04:30.000 Galvanized him like crazy.

00:04:31.000 The death of his mother.

00:04:32.000 Yeah.

00:04:33.000 But it's our job.

00:04:35.000 Right.

00:04:35.000 And the play-by-play is more exciting.

00:04:37.000 To say, you know, what are we seeing here?

00:04:39.000 Are we seeing, wow, is Mike just having an off night?

00:04:41.000 Is Buster just having a great night?

00:04:43.000 Was Buster always great?

00:04:44.000 We didn't know it.

00:04:45.000 There are a million ways to see the story.

00:04:47.000 And mostly play-by-play does that.

00:04:49.000 But we do it every now and then about, hey, you know, this could be a new thing.

00:04:52.000 It could be an old thing.

00:04:53.000 It's our job to tell that story a little bit.

00:04:54.000 Well, especially when it comes to results that we think happen and why they happen in certain fights and corrections that were made, which is on the technical side of things, right?

00:05:02.000 100%.

00:05:02.000 The technical side of things on the ground, too, which is huge.

00:05:05.000 And you're one of the – I mean, how many guys are doing it?

00:05:08.000 But you're a legit Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt.

00:05:10.000 Thank you very much.

00:05:11.000 I think that's important.

00:05:12.000 Yeah.

00:05:13.000 I think you have to understand transitions.

00:05:14.000 You've got to understand danger.

00:05:16.000 You've got to understand when someone's doing the right thing and then the percentages of them getting sub, drop substantially with each move.

00:05:22.000 You've got to be there.

00:05:23.000 So you're seeing every step of the way going, this guy's going to bail on us anytime now.

00:05:26.000 Here comes a scramble.

00:05:27.000 What would I do?

00:05:28.000 How do I anticipate this going down?

00:05:30.000 And being able to explain to people so they follow along.

00:05:33.000 And when you do it, and I follow along, it makes it more enjoyable to me.

00:05:37.000 I don't even know if we talked about this before, but I called Dana White about you how many years ago?

00:05:45.000 Four?

00:05:46.000 I tried to get Jimmy Smith hired by the UFC like four years ago.

00:05:50.000 I was like, dude, you want better people?

00:05:52.000 You want more people? 1.00

00:05:53.000 I go, hire that fucking guy. 1.00

00:05:54.000 I go, that guy, he knows what he's doing, man. 1.00

00:05:56.000 He knows what he's doing.

00:05:57.000 He's excited.

00:05:58.000 He loves the sport.

00:05:59.000 And I was telling him, you're a great guy.

00:06:01.000 And we talk.

00:06:02.000 He's genuine.

00:06:03.000 I go, he's a real fan. 0.99

00:06:04.000 And he's fucking really good at it, man. 0.98

00:06:05.000 Go get him. 0.98

00:06:06.000 Really love it.

00:06:07.000 I mean, I love the sport.

00:06:08.000 I love it 100%.

00:06:09.000 I know you do.

00:06:10.000 The timing didn't work out then, and then now I'm currently unemployed. 0.97

00:06:13.000 Well, you got to call some fucking badass fights though, man. 0.95

00:06:16.000 I did. 0.99

00:06:16.000 You know, Bellator's welterweight division in particular is goddamn stacked right now. 0.99

00:06:22.000 You know what's funny? 0.74

00:06:23.000 There are certain fighters, and I was thinking about it as I was watching the Cyborg fight last Saturday.

00:06:26.000 There are certain fighters you meet.

00:06:29.000 And it's stunning.

00:06:30.000 Certain athletes, when you meet LeBron James, you go, Jesus Christ. 0.99

00:06:33.000 I've seen him on TV, but when you see him in real life, you go, holy shit, that guy's big. 0.98

00:06:38.000 Cyborg's one of those. 0.96

00:06:40.000 Douglas Lima is one of those.

00:06:41.000 Have you ever met him?

00:06:41.000 Yeah.

00:06:42.000 When you meet that guy, you go, God, you make 170 pounds?

00:06:46.000 He is huge.

00:06:47.000 He is massive.

00:06:49.000 What do you think he walks around at?

00:06:50.000 210. 210. He told me.

00:06:52.000 That's what he told you.

00:06:53.000 Jesus, that's 40 pounds.

00:06:55.000 When King Mo fought Rampage, King Mo was 218. He stepped on scale at 218. So the night of the fight, Douglas Lehman was there, and I walk up to him and I go, you've walked at 218. And he goes, yeah!

00:07:07.000 He's like, I want to eat too much.

00:07:08.000 I shouldn't, but I have.

00:07:10.000 He has walked around at what King Mo walked around at.

00:07:13.000 Because King Mo just stepped on scale.

00:07:15.000 It really doesn't cut to make 220. I mean, because the weight class was 220 when he fought Rampage.

00:07:19.000 He walks around King Mosas.

00:07:21.000 They are the same size.

00:07:22.000 That is so insane.

00:07:23.000 And he makes 170. He has the worst cut...

00:07:27.000 In terms of pounds I've ever seen, he deals with it well, but he has one of the biggest cuts I've ever seen.

00:07:33.000 He's really good with it.

00:07:34.000 Bellator wasn't under on any IV restrictions.

00:07:38.000 I think it's by state.

00:07:39.000 We weren't as a promotion under it, I don't think.

00:07:41.000 I think it's by state.

00:07:42.000 Because I think the hardcore testing got instituted by USADA when Nowitzki came along, and I think that's when they stopped IVs.

00:07:51.000 I think states still allow them.

00:07:53.000 Yeah, as far as I know, it's still state for us.

00:07:55.000 And so for people who don't know what we're talking about, what that means is, and this is up for debate, because Joe Silva claimed that there had been tests done, this is what he was telling me, and I believe him, that showed that the correct way of rehydrating orally actually led to better results over a 24-hour period.

00:08:13.000 I've heard that.

00:08:14.000 Yeah, that the IV thing was good for short-term recovery from severe dehydration, but to actually go from like a weight-cutting weight to go back.

00:08:23.000 I don't know.

00:08:23.000 I didn't read any of the studies, but I do know about the inherent dangers of severe weight cuts.

00:08:30.000 Kidney failure, you know, there's a couple people who died over the last year, a professional or amateur.

00:08:35.000 Wrestlers die every few years, a wrestler dies.

00:08:37.000 A young amateur Muay Thai fighter died, I think, in Australia.

00:08:40.000 Female, I think.

00:08:40.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:08:41.000 The issue that people have trouble understanding...

00:08:44.000 Well, first off, to the IV point, I've heard coaches say it's just for their head.

00:08:49.000 They feel better once they...

00:08:50.000 Like, they think they need the IV, and it's like a placebo.

00:08:53.000 I've had coaches tell me it's pretty much a placebo.

00:08:56.000 You can't do it that much more than...

00:08:57.000 Now, once again, I haven't read the studies, but I've had coaches tell me that.

00:09:00.000 That Mike Beider just needs it for his head.

00:09:02.000 It used to be like what we'd assume you had to have.

00:09:04.000 Like, if a guy's going to cut a lot of weight, he's going to have a guy ready with an IV. How many bags did you take?

00:09:08.000 That was the thing that everybody always brought up.

00:09:09.000 Immediately.

00:09:10.000 Yeah, how many bags?

00:09:11.000 Two things that people don't really know.

00:09:13.000 When people ask me, because I've been in this since about 2099 is when I first started.

00:09:17.000 2099?

00:09:18.000 You're from the future. 0.99

00:09:19.000 I fucking knew it! 0.99

00:09:20.000 2099? 0.99

00:09:21.000 Dude, I knew it!

00:09:21.000 2000 comma 99. Guys didn't cut like they do now.

00:09:25.000 And when you look at old UFCs and you look at the size of these guys...

00:09:29.000 Tito's one of the few guys who was right now a legit 205. Frank Shamrock is like my size?

00:09:35.000 Yeah, Frank Shamrock was very small for the...

00:09:37.000 Incredibly small.

00:09:38.000 When he fought, when Tito Ortiz and Frank Shamrock fought, it was one of the very first displays of defense and cardio and how critical it was in victory.

00:09:50.000 100%.

00:09:51.000 He was lighter.

00:09:52.000 He was only like 190 when they fought.

00:09:53.000 Dude.

00:09:54.000 And he was able to push...

00:09:55.000 Fully clothed in 198. Was he?

00:09:57.000 Fully clothed, taking stuff out of his pockets.

00:09:58.000 Like a joke, like I'm fully clothed.

00:10:01.000 So guys cut more than they did in the early parts of the sport.

00:10:03.000 I mean, they just cut a lot more.

00:10:05.000 And when people ask me, well, what do you do about weight cutting?

00:10:08.000 How do we change it?

00:10:09.000 One of the things about fighting in general, and this goes too with other aspects of the sport, you're asking people who already take a huge risk, fighting is just a huge risk, period, to not take another huge risk.

00:10:21.000 Just the mentality of, if I have to do this to win, I'm going to do it.

00:10:26.000 You're saying, oh, they can't take that risk.

00:10:28.000 Well, you already have the personality of, I don't care what I have to do, I'm getting in that fight and I'm making it.

00:10:33.000 So it's...

00:10:35.000 It's hard.

00:10:36.000 What rule can you make?

00:10:37.000 It's hard to do.

00:10:38.000 You're talking about a group of people that are already used to taking a huge, dangerous physical risk to even get in there.

00:10:45.000 So adding on the weight cut, they're going to take that gamble every time.

00:10:49.000 No, I agree with you if they can.

00:10:52.000 1FC, though, is instituting some interesting new rule changes.

00:10:55.000 And 1FC is doing hydration tests.

00:10:59.000 They do that in high schools now for wrestling.

00:11:01.000 They didn't do that before.

00:11:01.000 They should.

00:11:02.000 They should.

00:11:06.000 I'm trying to remember who told me that this weekend.

00:11:08.000 But they're essentially saying they're going to be able to ban weight cutting.

00:11:10.000 They're just going to be able to institute that no one's going to be able to cut weight.

00:11:14.000 If you pass the hydration test, you're not going to be able to cut weight.

00:11:17.000 So you have to pass this hydration test at every turn.

00:11:20.000 You can't just get on the scale and you weigh 170 pounds.

00:11:24.000 Oh, congratulations.

00:11:25.000 No, no, no.

00:11:26.000 You weigh 170 pounds, but you're in danger.

00:11:28.000 Like, look at your body.

00:11:29.000 Look at your hydration levels.

00:11:30.000 But at what point are they testing?

00:11:31.000 Apparently they're doing it in three separate...

00:11:32.000 Because you don't want a card falling apart, of course.

00:11:34.000 They step up.

00:11:35.000 Not you.

00:11:36.000 And then half the card falls apart.

00:11:37.000 Yeah.

00:11:38.000 I wonder what they did to...

00:11:39.000 So when would they?

00:11:40.000 That's my question.

00:11:41.000 Well, they'd have to do it early and blow all the weight classes up. 1.00

00:11:44.000 Yeah.

00:11:45.000 We were having this conversation.

00:11:47.000 You have to shift everybody one, at least.

00:11:48.000 Or if you don't even shift them one, you find out, like, what weight are you really?

00:11:53.000 You know, I mean, you could be like a Luke Rockhold dude who's a giant 185-er.

00:11:57.000 I mean, Luke easily looks like he could be a heavyweight when you're walking around him.

00:12:00.000 Easy.

00:12:01.000 He's like 220 or 230 or something like that, and then he gets to—I mean, maybe he's mad at me right now.

00:12:05.000 I don't really— Of lean muscle, bruh!

00:12:09.000 I might be exaggerating.

00:12:11.000 But at the very least, when he gets down to 185, he's probably coming from 200 plus pounds.

00:12:17.000 And a big, tall 205. But then there's other guys that just don't cut that much at all.

00:12:23.000 But what gets me is there's no hard and fast body type rule.

00:12:28.000 Like I said, Doug Sima is huge.

00:12:30.000 He makes it every time.

00:12:31.000 Do you ever talk to him about how he does it?

00:12:35.000 He's told me little things.

00:12:36.000 He used to not do it well, and he looked like death.

00:12:38.000 In the last few fights, he's looked much better.

00:12:41.000 He tended to bloom up to like 210, 215. And he's American top team, right?

00:12:45.000 Yeah.

00:12:46.000 Not Coconut Creek, though.

00:12:49.000 Atlanta somewhere?

00:12:50.000 Oh, really?

00:12:51.000 Somewhere down south.

00:12:52.000 He might go there to Spar or something, but he's not at the main facility most of the time.

00:12:57.000 Are they all integrated, like Gracie Baja or something like that?

00:13:00.000 Yeah, that kind of thing.

00:13:00.000 They're the same team, so he goes around to get work.

00:13:02.000 But it's...

00:13:04.000 And then I have guys, you know, Fernando Gonzalez, never makes weight.

00:13:07.000 And he looks like he's got something to lose.

00:13:08.000 Like, he's not the most shredded, biggest 170, and he always has trouble with it.

00:13:12.000 So it's weird.

00:13:13.000 Certain guys, you're like, man, there's no way that guy can make it.

00:13:15.000 He always does.

00:13:16.000 And certain guys look like they should be able to make it pretty easily and just don't.

00:13:19.000 It's strange.

00:13:20.000 There's no easy rules, is what I'm saying.

00:13:22.000 Darion Caldwell's huge at 135. He's huge.

00:13:24.000 And he makes it.

00:13:25.000 He's a wrestler his whole life.

00:13:26.000 He makes it every time.

00:13:27.000 And he's a giant wrestler.

00:13:28.000 Yeah, I mean, like how much of it is discipline?

00:13:31.000 How much of it is a really good game plan and a really good nutritionist?

00:13:34.000 Like Cyborg, or excuse me, Nurmagomedov made weight easily this time.

00:13:39.000 Yeah.

00:13:39.000 And, you know, Cyborg obviously had a hard time trying to 140, but at 145 she's been successful, you know, cutting the weight.

00:13:45.000 Yeah. 0.93

00:13:45.000 But for Nurmagomedov, he's had some real fucking problems making 55. This time, no problems. 0.93

00:13:50.000 Looked amazing.

00:13:51.000 Well, one of the things, you know, once again, going back to storytelling for us is when someone doesn't make it, they don't make weight.

00:13:57.000 Is it advantage the heavier guy or is it advantage the guy who, if you don't make weight, maybe something happened that last couple weeks of camp that maybe a little injury kept you from losing the weight or is it advantage the bigger guy?

00:14:09.000 Yeah.

00:14:09.000 Is it better to come in big?

00:14:11.000 Or did the guy make weight, was he a little more disciplined at the end?

00:14:14.000 And he has an advantage in the fight.

00:14:15.000 You don't know at the time.

00:14:16.000 Well, the problem with Nurmagomedov obviously was the last fight before this previous spectacular fight with Barboza.

00:14:22.000 He didn't make the weight because he had to go to the hospital.

00:14:25.000 So that's a different animal.

00:14:26.000 That's like, oh, you pushed it so far that they wanted to make sure you stayed alive.

00:14:31.000 So they had to bring you to a hospital.

00:14:32.000 So they obviously realized there's some changes that need to be made.

00:14:34.000 They made those changes. 0.99

00:14:36.000 And fucking hell on Friday, or on Saturday night rather. 1.00

00:14:39.000 Fucking hell. 1.00

00:14:39.000 Unbelievable. 1.00

00:14:40.000 That was, it's really weird sometimes when you, in any sport, I don't care what it is, when you see somebody, you know, Jordan in his prime, you just can't cover the guy.

00:14:50.000 It's almost like he's the only one on the court.

00:14:52.000 Yeah.

00:14:53.000 It was like he was the only one in the cage.

00:14:56.000 It was like everything was inevitable.

00:14:58.000 Everything was inevitable.

00:14:59.000 The takedown was inevitable.

00:15:00.000 The beatings were inevitable.

00:15:02.000 You know, even if you hit him, congratulations. 1.00

00:15:04.000 Now you're on your ass. 1.00

00:15:05.000 You're getting punched in the face over and over again. 1.00

00:15:07.000 You can't get up.

00:15:08.000 You're getting mauled.

00:15:10.000 Immediately.

00:15:11.000 And against an excellent fighter.

00:15:13.000 I forget, Barboza is amazing.

00:15:15.000 Amazing.

00:15:16.000 And he made him look like he's...

00:15:18.000 The look on his face when he got up.

00:15:20.000 When Barboza was like, hey...

00:15:23.000 You were better than me.

00:15:24.000 It was almost like a shrug.

00:15:27.000 I wasn't even mad.

00:15:27.000 It was just when you see somebody that much better, it's back to the drawing board.

00:15:31.000 Well, I was super impressed with Barboza being able to make it to the final bell.

00:15:35.000 I mean, that was amazing.

00:15:37.000 Just being able to do that, that shows you what a dominant performance it was by a guy like Khabib.

00:15:43.000 But you also realize...

00:15:45.000 What a world-class fighter Barboza is that he did.

00:15:48.000 Keeps throwing wheel kicks in the third round and he even landed one of them.

00:15:52.000 It just didn't have much on it anymore.

00:15:53.000 Didn't have the juice on it anymore. 1.00

00:15:54.000 But fuck, man. 1.00

00:15:55.000 He was still trying to win after a horrendous mauling for eight-plus minutes. 1.00

00:16:00.000 You know when I really look at fighters, when I really focus on them, especially the face, in between rounds, I look for that breaking moment of like, you know...

00:16:10.000 Vitor Belfort, Randy Couture, and he's sitting on the ground.

00:16:12.000 Just, like, didn't even sit on a stool.

00:16:14.000 Sat on the ground, like, beat.

00:16:15.000 And I'm like, this guy's beat.

00:16:17.000 It's when you look at them in between rounds, and you see that, like...

00:16:21.000 What am I doing in here?

00:16:22.000 That's when you know, you know, the men from the boys, mentally speaking.

00:16:27.000 And, you know, in Bellator, Patricio Pitbull, I remember when he fought Daniel Strauss, he was getting beat up for like four rounds, and every round he looked like Lemmy Adam.

00:16:38.000 And he won toward the end of the fourth round with a rear naked choke.

00:16:42.000 He just never quits, and I always look for that breaking moment, man.

00:16:45.000 That's what really separates the guys who are mentally 100% there on those who aren't.

00:16:51.000 I think Barboza got beaten, but I don't think he got broken.

00:16:53.000 No, I don't think so either. 0.99

00:16:54.000 If you think about the amount of time during that fight, he was actually getting his ass kicked. 0.98

00:16:58.000 When I said eight, I think I might have said rounds, I meant minutes. 0.98

00:17:00.000 I think there was like eight minutes of prolonged top time and beating in that fight.

00:17:05.000 Plus.

00:17:06.000 And then there's all the backward movement.

00:17:08.000 Trying to get away, throwing those inside leg kicks and doing everything he can, everything he can to create space. 0.98

00:17:14.000 But for eight fucking minutes, he never gave up. 0.99

00:17:17.000 Or whatever it was, 15 minutes, just getting the fuck beaten out of him. 1.00

00:17:20.000 He kept trying to win. 0.99

00:17:22.000 He wasn't capable of doing it, but he never broke.

00:17:25.000 Teddy Atlas said, fighters make an agreement.

00:17:27.000 I'll stop trying to win if you'll stop trying to hurt me.

00:17:29.000 Whoa, yeah.

00:17:30.000 And he never did that.

00:17:31.000 He never went, look, just go away.

00:17:33.000 Just like, leave me alone and I'll back up and you can beat me. 0.94

00:17:35.000 He never did that.

00:17:36.000 He kept throwing the whole time, which is incredible, but just no answer.

00:17:39.000 How many 10-8s were there on the scorecards?

00:17:41.000 Well, the thing is, one out of 10-8 every round.

00:17:44.000 It was the old scoring, too.

00:17:47.000 Nevada hasn't adopted the new rules.

00:17:49.000 So, for people who don't know, the new rules make it easier to make distinctions between a 10-9 round, 10-8 round, 10-7 round, which I agree.

00:17:56.000 They haven't adopted that.

00:17:57.000 No, Nevada has not.

00:17:59.000 That's an old-school 10-8. 0.99

00:18:00.000 It's an ass-whooping 10-8. 0.86

00:18:01.000 There were some ridiculous scorecards that seemed to indicate to some of us that even though the new rules are better and the states haven't adopted them, the judges have decided to adopt them in some sort of a weird, non-declared way. 0.91

00:18:14.000 Because it just definitely seemed there was a much larger disparity in the numbers and the scorecards.

00:18:19.000 But Nurmagomedov just mauled him.

00:18:23.000 I mean, mauled him in a way that you go, oh, God.

00:18:26.000 You're not even there.

00:18:27.000 He's just on such another level that the odds of you beating him drop so substantially after the first minute and a half.

00:18:36.000 You saw the look on Barbosa's face.

00:18:39.000 There's like two minutes plus into the first round, and he's trying to get up.

00:18:42.000 You see the look on his face. 0.99

00:18:43.000 He's like, fuck, how am I going to deal with this? 1.00

00:18:46.000 This is so next level. 0.99

00:18:49.000 What's really funny, it's almost to me like a throwback kind of fighter.

00:18:52.000 If you remember back in the day, guys that didn't have a real solid wrestling or jiu-jitsu background, when they felt that pressure, they kind of went, They didn't have any experience with it. 0.68

00:19:02.000 They were just like, holy crap, like a truck rolling over you.

00:19:04.000 You almost saw that look on his face.

00:19:06.000 Like, oh, like I've never felt anything like this in life.

00:19:09.000 And for someone training at Barboza's level, who you know he's training with high-level guys, he's training with all kinds of outstanding wrestlers and jiu-jitsu guys, to have that look like this is some crazy pressure, that's insane because no one has secret techniques anymore.

00:19:21.000 It's not divided skill-wise.

00:19:23.000 I mean, you have great guys in every camp.

00:19:25.000 And the fact that You see on someone's eye, and I say this to fighters, you don't want the first time you experience something to be in the cage.

00:19:31.000 You want to experience this in training, and then you can deal with it in the cage.

00:19:35.000 Barbosa had a look in his eye like, I have never felt anything like this in my life.

00:19:38.000 And that's incredible, considering modern techniques.

00:19:41.000 Well, it seems to me that everything right now is next level in comparison to a year and a half, two years ago. 0.96

00:19:47.000 Like, Dos Anjos beat Robbie Lawler recently in just a fucking tour de force performance. 0.52

00:19:54.000 Watched that fight, I was like, this is as good as Dos Anjos has ever looked, if not better. 0.98

00:19:58.000 Real sharp.

00:19:59.000 Fucking amazing at 170, but more importantly, the output, the amount of shots that he landed, the amount of shots that he fired, the endurance that he's showing, everybody is on this complete different performance level right now.

00:20:14.000 What I loved about that performance, One thing that generally doesn't change weight class as well when you move up is power. 0.95

00:20:20.000 Meaning, Robbie Law, if you remember, at 170, he was knocking everybody out.

00:20:23.000 At 185, he was like, so-so.

00:20:24.000 The shot that knocks somebody out at 70 when he was in Strikeforce at 185 isn't going to knock out Jacare.

00:20:29.000 It's not going to knock out Babalu.

00:20:30.000 It's not going to knock out these big 185ers. 1.00

00:20:32.000 So a lot of power punchers have trouble changing weight classes because the power shot just doesn't go with them.

00:20:38.000 Dos Anjos looked like he knew that.

00:20:41.000 And when I got to volume guys at 170, I'm not going to knock anybody out with one shot like I did at 55. I have to throw more at 70. I have to be more accurate at 70. I have to slice them up with elbows a little more.

00:20:51.000 So I like all the adjustments he made for the new weight class.

00:20:54.000 He didn't try to fight like he did at 55. He's like, I got to throw more against these guys.

00:20:57.000 I can't go one punch for one punch with Robbie Lawler.

00:21:00.000 He has a huge 170. So I like the way his style modified with the weight class change.

00:21:04.000 A lot of guys don't do that.

00:21:05.000 I agree, and I also think the use of leg kicks is critical.

00:21:08.000 You've got to slow Robbie down.

00:21:09.000 Robbie's a big, heavy guy, and he immediately started chopping.

00:21:12.000 It is crazy to me, also, that that low calf kick is becoming such a giant factor in MMA. That kick is just dominant now.

00:21:21.000 Everybody's using it.

00:21:22.000 Remember what Melvin Manoff did to him?

00:21:23.000 After he knocked Manoff and couldn't walk.

00:21:25.000 He knocks him out and was limping over to his corner going, one more and I'm done.

00:21:30.000 That was one of the greatest comebacks from behind knockouts ever.

00:21:33.000 He's eating all those leg kicks and Melvin is just coming after him.

00:21:37.000 If you haven't seen that fight, folks, see it.

00:21:39.000 Because it's awesome.

00:21:40.000 Melvin is just owning that leg.

00:21:41.000 Got a little aggressive as Melvin Manoff does and got clipped, man.

00:21:46.000 Got clipped with the haymaker of all the haymakers.

00:21:48.000 Hail Mary, man.

00:21:49.000 And then one on the way down, too.

00:21:51.000 Yeah.

00:21:51.000 When he was out.

00:21:53.000 And then boom!

00:21:54.000 A Tiki Goshen shot, remember that? 0.58

00:21:55.000 Yeah.

00:21:56.000 Tiki's sitting there and lands with a shot, yeah. 1.00

00:21:59.000 Yeah, Robbie was a brutal, brutal knockout artist.

00:22:01.000 I always wanted to see a rematch between him and Nick Diaz.

00:22:04.000 I think everybody wants to see that.

00:22:05.000 That would be awesome.

00:22:06.000 How is it possible that that didn't take place?

00:22:08.000 There are certain matches that you wonder...

00:22:12.000 You know, the run Vanderlei was on, right?

00:22:14.000 Vanderlei V Tour 2 never happened.

00:22:16.000 I mean, there's certain ones you go, man, I can't believe that fight never happened again.

00:22:19.000 That's certainly one of them.

00:22:19.000 Still could.

00:22:20.000 Still could, hypothetically.

00:22:21.000 I mean, it would still sell like crazy.

00:22:22.000 I mean, I wonder if Nick Diaz, if he wanted to come back, would only want to come back for a title fight.

00:22:27.000 I wonder if he's like that kind of money fight guy where he's like, yeah, obviously he's got some money and obviously he's not beating down anybody's door to fight.

00:22:35.000 No.

00:22:35.000 He's not, you know, he's doing whatever the fuck he wants to do, but if you could get him back for a big money fight, I wonder if it would only be like a title fight.

00:22:42.000 That's increasing what's happening these days. 0.67

00:22:44.000 I mean, guys are like, ah, I'm not getting paid.

00:22:45.000 Like GSP. Yeah, he came back for a huge money fight and that's it, you know?

00:22:50.000 It's funny, Dana White said something crazy like, yeah, he's just going to pack up his money and head back to Canada.

00:22:55.000 Got a big check.

00:22:56.000 Three suitcases to hold all of it.

00:22:58.000 Yeah.

00:22:58.000 He did.

00:22:59.000 Big money fight stuff.

00:23:00.000 Won the title and then retired.

00:23:03.000 I mean, look, as far as legacy, if he wanted to end it right there, that's a pretty nice cherry.

00:23:08.000 Yeah, that's a nice one.

00:23:09.000 That's a pretty nice cherry.

00:23:10.000 With a finish?

00:23:11.000 Yeah.

00:23:11.000 That's pretty awesome.

00:23:12.000 Come back up.

00:23:13.000 Choke the champ to sleep and say, nah, I'm good.

00:23:16.000 Now, do you think he comes back for any other fighter?

00:23:20.000 Michael Bisping was the perfect guy for him to come back and fight.

00:23:24.000 The perfect guy for him to come back.

00:23:25.000 He comes back for Conor.

00:23:27.000 Yeah.

00:23:27.000 That's the fight.

00:23:28.000 But I don't think they want to do that.

00:23:31.000 I don't think stylistically it's...

00:23:33.000 I mean, it could certainly happen, it would certainly sell, but we know how GSP fights.

00:23:38.000 A, he's a giant compared to Conor.

00:23:40.000 He has a wrestling-heavy style.

00:23:42.000 I don't think it's a great...

00:23:43.000 I don't think...

00:23:44.000 It would be hard for Conor to look good in that fight, is the way I say it.

00:23:47.000 It would be hard for Conor to look good unless he caught him coming in, which no one's been able to really do against GSP. They would have to do some sort of a catch weight.

00:23:54.000 Yeah.

00:23:54.000 Because their body composition would just be so much different.

00:23:56.000 Wouldn't work.

00:23:57.000 If they really did 170. And, you know, that was an issue that he had with Nate.

00:24:00.000 But Nate is a legit 155-er.

00:24:02.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:24:03.000 He kept saying, oh, you've got to have some fucking attributes. 0.99

00:24:06.000 Nate is a big, long guy. 0.99

00:24:07.000 Yeah.

00:24:08.000 And he does get heavy in between.

00:24:09.000 But the reality is, he fought successfully, made weight 155 on numerous occasions easily.

00:24:15.000 Yeah.

00:24:16.000 You know, fought in the Ultimate Fighter at 155. That's his weight.

00:24:19.000 And that was another one of those, when he came up from 45 to 55, I think he was still in that one-shot mode. 0.99

00:24:24.000 And if you watch that fight again, Conor hits him and goes, shit. 0.90

00:24:28.000 He's still here, because I'm at 55, and not only does Diaz have a great chin, he's a big 55-er, he's well hydrated, and especially when they fought, the first time it was at 170, he's hydrated. 0.99

00:24:37.000 He hasn't cut at all, he can take a shot. 0.98

00:24:40.000 And that one-shot ability he had at 45, oh shit, it's not here anymore. 0.99

00:24:44.000 I think he was a little bit more prepared. 0.89

00:24:46.000 Nate fought at least twice at 70 in the UFC before Cod.

00:24:50.000 He fought Rory.

00:24:51.000 Rory and who else?

00:24:52.000 Who was the other guy?

00:24:53.000 Who else he fought at 70?

00:24:55.000 He fought again at 70. I forget who he fought.

00:24:58.000 Right now we're being tweeted at.

00:25:00.000 Someone's tweeting at us. 1.00

00:25:00.000 So who are you fucking losers? 1.00

00:25:01.000 I should have your job. 1.00

00:25:02.000 Yeah, totally.

00:25:04.000 I'm totally looking for that tweet.

00:25:05.000 I don't remember what it was, but he had, I want to say maybe Stung Gun Kim?

00:25:11.000 That might have been.

00:25:11.000 Was that it?

00:25:13.000 Somebody's...

00:25:13.000 It might have been that.

00:25:14.000 Somebody's looking it up right now for us.

00:25:15.000 Young Jamie's on the case.

00:25:17.000 Is that...

00:25:18.000 Is it...

00:25:19.000 What does it say?

00:25:21.000 It doesn't have his weight listed on the thing I was looking at.

00:25:22.000 Well, put it up so I can take a look at it.

00:25:24.000 Yeah, we see it.

00:25:25.000 What is it?

00:25:26.000 Is it Wiki?

00:25:26.000 Yeah.

00:25:27.000 Just go to the Wiki MMA record and it'll show it.

00:25:33.000 Oh, look.

00:25:33.000 That's nice.

00:25:33.000 Oh, there we are.

00:25:35.000 Two eggs.

00:25:36.000 Down here, right?

00:25:37.000 Mm-hmm.

00:25:38.000 What do we got here?

00:25:40.000 Mm-hmm.

00:25:40.000 Ryan McDonald, Dunyunkin.

00:25:41.000 Yeah, Dunyunkin. 1.00

00:25:42.000 Yeah, so it was that.

00:25:42.000 Yeah, it was.

00:25:43.000 So it was right.

00:25:43.000 So he tried it for a little bit.

00:25:45.000 After he beat Marcus Davis, he just was having a hard time making the weight.

00:25:48.000 And then he came back to 55 and beat Takanori Gomi, beat Donald Cerrone, beat Jim Miller.

00:25:52.000 Yeah.

00:25:53.000 That Cerrone fight was, I think, maybe his finest fight.

00:25:57.000 He took Cerrone apart in that fight. 0.99

00:25:58.000 He mentally fucked up Cerrone with the trash talking. 0.99

00:26:01.000 He got in Cerrone's head and it became very emotional for him. 0.99

00:26:04.000 Donald likes to be friends with the guys he fights.

00:26:06.000 Yeah, well, that was the Diaz's.

00:26:08.000 That ain't gonna happen.

00:26:12.000 Yeah.

00:26:13.000 He's a nice guy.

00:26:14.000 Donald just likes to fight.

00:26:15.000 He's a really nice guy, though.

00:26:17.000 To loop it back to our earlier discussion about weight cutting, there's a reason guys do it.

00:26:22.000 Diaz, who's a great 55er, is a so-so 70. A fantastic BJ Penn.

00:26:27.000 To me...

00:26:29.000 The worst thing that ever happened to BJ Penn was when he knocked on Matt Hughes and thought, I can fight at 70. He was 1-5-1 at 70. Right.

00:26:36.000 We choked him out once, then he knocked him out.

00:26:38.000 Yeah.

00:26:38.000 I mean, initially when he went to 170 pounds, it was the only fighter he ever beat at 170 was Matt Hughes in the UFC. So what that did is that, I think he fought at 185 when he took on Gracie.

00:26:51.000 Two Gracies. 0.88

00:26:52.000 He fought Rodrigo, too.

00:26:54.000 But once he had that idea that he could beat these guys at 170, I mean, you saw what Diaz did to him.

00:27:00.000 I mean, he just wasn't ready.

00:27:01.000 Rory ate him alive.

00:27:02.000 It's just a great 55er isn't always a great 70. Robbie Lawler at 70 is not a great 185er.

00:27:08.000 No, the Rory and the Nick ones are particularly hard to watch.

00:27:11.000 Yeah.

00:27:12.000 Which, you know, and then was sort of accentuated back when BJ made his return at 45. And then you go, okay, well this makes more sense.

00:27:20.000 Yeah.

00:27:20.000 Like you were, at 55 when he fought Diego Sanchez, he was one of the baddest 55ers of all time.

00:27:25.000 Ever. 0.92

00:27:26.000 He was a monster. 0.94

00:27:27.000 But for whatever reason, he just, you know... 0.82

00:27:31.000 That level was only attained a few times.

00:27:35.000 He's one of those guys where...

00:27:37.000 I was talking to Josh Thompson recently backstage in New York and he used to train with Frank Shamrock and BJ Penn and said they were sitting there with an exercise ball and they'd already been training for a while and they said we're trying to stand on this exercise ball and we're trying and trying and falling and falling and BJ walks in like an hour late for practice And he says, what are you guys doing?

00:27:57.000 And he says, oh, we're trying to stand on the exercise ball.

00:27:59.000 And BJ jumped on it. 0.98

00:28:00.000 And went, okay, and walked back in it.

00:28:03.000 They've been trying for like an hour to stand on this thing.

00:28:06.000 And so, you know, I've heard a million stories of that.

00:28:09.000 BJ, you know, coming in late to practice smoking everybody and leaving.

00:28:12.000 Like, you know, I never trained with a guy, I don't know.

00:28:14.000 But you have that sense.

00:28:16.000 He's one of those who go, man, if I had, if you had, you know...

00:28:21.000 B.J. Penn's ability, which is off the chart incredible, with the longevity and work ethic of like a Matt Hughes.

00:28:27.000 I mean, he might still be champion.

00:28:30.000 It's unbelievable what the guy had.

00:28:31.000 Really unbelievable.

00:28:32.000 But like you said, it was in spurts and fits.

00:28:34.000 And then he left the UFC for a while because he didn't like the minor.

00:28:36.000 They got rid of the 55 division and, you know, these fits and starts, man.

00:28:39.000 He fought Machida.

00:28:41.000 At heavyweight.

00:28:41.000 It was insane.

00:28:42.000 It was over 205. It was insane.

00:28:44.000 Over 205?

00:28:44.000 Yeah.

00:28:45.000 I think Machina was like 2'10 or something in that fight.

00:28:48.000 He fought Dwayne Ludwig over there.

00:28:50.000 Yep.

00:28:51.000 On Triangle choked him out. 0.99

00:28:52.000 And the Rumble and the Rock fights were fucking great. 0.96

00:28:55.000 Oh, the Gomi fight is awesome. 0.97

00:28:56.000 It's great.

00:28:56.000 I love that fight.

00:28:57.000 It was a great idea. 0.99

00:28:58.000 He's like, fuck it, I'll make my own promotion. 1.00

00:29:00.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:29:00.000 Yeah, I mean, that's balls. 1.00

00:29:02.000 And Hawaii used to be a really fertile ground for MMA. That used to be, man. 0.89

00:29:05.000 Sure.

00:29:06.000 Unbelievable.

00:29:07.000 Yeah, man.

00:29:07.000 Yeah.

00:29:08.000 Super Brawl, Rumble and the Rock. 0.97

00:29:09.000 The Super Brawl fights were fucking great. 0.97

00:29:12.000 Yeah. 0.89

00:29:12.000 Back in the day. 0.89

00:29:13.000 Vitor John Hess, bro.

00:29:15.000 Come on, dude.

00:29:16.000 Vitor John Hess was over there.

00:29:18.000 John Lober.

00:29:18.000 Mayhem.

00:29:19.000 Oh, that's right.

00:29:20.000 John Lober Shamrock.

00:29:20.000 Way back in the day.

00:29:22.000 Mayhem had a bunch of fights over there.

00:29:23.000 They had big tournaments over there in the beginning.

00:29:25.000 Mayhem and Egan Inoue.

00:29:26.000 Remember that?

00:29:27.000 Egan Inoue got Mayhem in a crazy Kimura.

00:29:29.000 Mayhem just kept rolling out of it and wouldn't tap.

00:29:32.000 Spanking him and then hitting him. 0.94

00:29:33.000 Yeah, I remember that. 0.67

00:29:34.000 Frank Trigg and Robbie Lawler back then, remember, in Hawaii?

00:29:38.000 Yep. 0.99

00:29:38.000 Holy shit. 0.99

00:29:39.000 Miller Lawler. 1.00

00:29:40.000 That's right.

00:29:40.000 Miller beat him.

00:29:41.000 That's right, he did.

00:29:41.000 Miller choked him out, yeah.

00:29:42.000 That's right. 1.00

00:29:43.000 Dude, Mayhem Miller was a bad motherfucker. 1.00

00:29:46.000 Monster. 1.00

00:29:46.000 He was a bad motherfucker in the day. 1.00

00:29:47.000 He was one of my first training partners. 0.99

00:29:48.000 I started with Team Punishment in like 2000, 99, 2000. Wow.

00:29:52.000 And Mayhem was there.

00:29:53.000 And, you know, rolling with that guy was crazy.

00:29:57.000 Super skillful.

00:29:58.000 Unbelievably skillful.

00:29:59.000 And funky and crazy.

00:30:00.000 Yeah.

00:30:02.000 Flexible and everything, yeah.

00:30:04.000 Yeah, I mean, I think his finest performance was against Sakuraba.

00:30:07.000 That's what I think Mayhem's finest performance was.

00:30:09.000 He was so, like, just technical and clean and just went through him.

00:30:14.000 Just chop, chop, bang, bang, smash, choke. 1.00

00:30:16.000 I think he was one of those guys, looking back on it, there are certain guys who...

00:30:22.000 I'm thinking around Josh Barnett a bit.

00:30:24.000 I think Shaolin a little bit.

00:30:27.000 He didn't settle down on a promotion right in his prime.

00:30:31.000 He was bouncing around a little bit.

00:30:34.000 Josh Barnett spent his prime kind of bouncing around a lot.

00:30:36.000 By the time he made his UFC run, it was late in his career.

00:30:39.000 Remember, he fought GSP, took a long break off and came back and just wasn't the same guy.

00:30:43.000 And you wonder sometimes.

00:30:45.000 I think maybe in his prime, Vitor Shaolin might be the best 55er in the world in his prime, but he was in Shuto, he would move around a lot in Japan, and just was off the U.S. radar.

00:30:53.000 And that was Cavalcante, too, right?

00:30:56.000 Jay-Z. That was a big issue with him.

00:30:58.000 Back in the day, people were saying he was the best 155-pounder alive.

00:31:01.000 A lot of the guys had trained with him.

00:31:02.000 By the time he came to the States, it was just a little bit further past it.

00:31:06.000 Yeah, there's been a few of those cases, right?

00:31:08.000 Like Josh Thompson, who we're talking about, at one point in time was the best lightweight in the world, or one of them, and then had some of his best fights with Gilbert, who was also at the same time in the same bracket, and they fought in Strikeforce while they were peaking.

00:31:21.000 Fantastic fights.

00:31:23.000 Go back and watch those folks.

00:31:24.000 They are awesome, guys.

00:31:25.000 But what people don't understand, who maybe are new to the sport, the ecosystem used to be different.

00:31:31.000 You could make good money fighting for icon sports in Hawaii.

00:31:33.000 There wasn't a lot of incentive to move around.

00:31:36.000 And guys moved around Much easier.

00:31:39.000 It was, you know, oh, I fought here a couple times and here a couple times.

00:31:41.000 They weren't as restrictive with talent as it is now where it's, you know, Belter fighters don't move over and UFC fighters don't move over until they're done with their contracts.

00:31:47.000 Guys moved around a lot.

00:31:48.000 And so somebody like Josh Barnett could move around a little bit more and make more money than he would settling down somewhere.

00:31:55.000 But it kept him off the radar of a lot of U.S. fans.

00:31:57.000 Well, how about Eve Edwards? 0.90

00:31:59.000 Eve Edwards is probably the best 155-pounder in the world and the UFC got rid of the division. 1.00

00:32:04.000 It's hard to explain that to people.

00:32:07.000 They once cut the 55 division.

00:32:09.000 At the time, he had just knocked out Josh Thompson.

00:32:12.000 With that head kick off the spinning back fist. 1.00

00:32:14.000 One of my favorite of all time.

00:32:17.000 And they got rid of the 55 pound division right after that.

00:32:21.000 Right in that era.

00:32:22.000 And once again, by the time he came back, he fought in Pride.

00:32:26.000 Beat Mishimo over in Pride. 0.89

00:32:28.000 Lost to Joachim Hansen.

00:32:31.000 By the time he came back, it was just too late.

00:32:36.000 He was at the end of his run.

00:32:37.000 Yeah, man.

00:32:38.000 He fought Jorge Masvidal and Bodog, too.

00:32:41.000 Remember that?

00:32:41.000 Yes, he did.

00:32:41.000 Got knocked out.

00:32:42.000 Yeah, I remember that.

00:32:43.000 Right here.

00:32:43.000 Cuts him.

00:32:44.000 Spinning back fist.

00:32:45.000 Boom.

00:32:46.000 Boom.

00:32:47.000 They both threw at the same time. 1.00

00:32:49.000 Bloodsport shit. 0.99

00:32:50.000 Yeah, that was when Yves was at the top of the food chain. 1.00

00:32:52.000 Great guy.

00:32:53.000 Love Yves.

00:32:53.000 Oh, the best.

00:32:54.000 Strayed with him a couple times when I first started.

00:32:56.000 Super skillful, super nice guy.

00:32:58.000 Yeah, man.

00:32:59.000 So those guys were, you know...

00:33:01.000 Cut loose.

00:33:02.000 They had to go somewhere.

00:33:03.000 They had to find a place for them.

00:33:05.000 And then Strikeforce became the spot where you had the Gilbert-Josh Thompson wars.

00:33:10.000 You had Tim Kennedy had some great fights over there.

00:33:13.000 Clay Guida, that's where he got his start when he beat Josh.

00:33:15.000 Big, huge upset.

00:33:16.000 Rockhold came from there.

00:33:17.000 That's right.

00:33:18.000 That's when Clay beat Josh.

00:33:19.000 It was a huge, huge upset.

00:33:22.000 Yeah.

00:33:22.000 Man, there were some good fights over in Strikeforce.

00:33:24.000 They really were.

00:33:24.000 I liked the tournament format.

00:33:25.000 It was fun.

00:33:27.000 The heavyweight division was awesome at a time when the UFC division was at a low point.

00:33:31.000 The heavyweight division was at a low point.

00:33:32.000 I thought Strikeforce was great.

00:33:34.000 It's just hard for people to accept talent levels of folks that aren't in the big shows.

00:33:41.000 It's like it took Marlon Marais to come over and look the way he looked in his last fight.

00:33:48.000 When you see...

00:33:50.000 When you see like... 0.99

00:33:53.000 Justin Gaethje come over from World Series of Fighting and see the fucking brawl he had with Michael Johnson. 0.99

00:33:59.000 Yeah. 0.96

00:33:59.000 Then the crazy fight with Eddie Alvarez, you realize like, oh, this guy's been like this all along. 0.96

00:34:04.000 Yeah.

00:34:04.000 You know, and then when Marais knocks out Aljamain Sterling with that, well, he's trying to kick him, but he hit him with a knee.

00:34:09.000 Yep.

00:34:10.000 But I mean, K-Os him, flatlines him. 1.00

00:34:12.000 And you realize like, oh, this guy is fucking for real. 0.98

00:34:15.000 This is a guy that just beat Hennen Burrell, right? 0.99

00:34:17.000 Yeah.

00:34:17.000 Aljamain just beats Hennen Burrell.

00:34:19.000 Marais starches him with a high kick, and you're like, what?

00:34:22.000 Whoa! 0.71

00:34:23.000 This guy was in the World Series of Fighting.

00:34:25.000 People didn't really look at that.

00:34:27.000 It's like, he's top-shelf talent.

00:34:29.000 When Eddie came from Bellator.

00:34:31.000 Yep.

00:34:31.000 He comes over to the UFC. You could argue that Eddie was in his physical prime Bellator.

00:34:36.000 He's a little bit younger, a little bit sharper.

00:34:37.000 He comes over to the UFC, does the same thing, knocks me out, wins a belt, and suddenly he's on everybody's radar.

00:34:43.000 But you remember he lost to Donald first.

00:34:45.000 Yeah, he did.

00:34:45.000 He did.

00:34:46.000 Donald exposed the weaknesses to leg kicks.

00:34:48.000 He did.

00:34:48.000 Yeah, that was one of Donald's best fights.

00:34:50.000 When you think about what Eddie went through, When you go Cowboy Sorote, there was Gilbert Melendez was next for him.

00:34:57.000 Dos Anjos was like, Jesus Christ, murderers run.

00:35:00.000 And the Dos Anjos KO was just crazy.

00:35:03.000 Eddie is always going to have power. 0.84

00:35:05.000 He's a savage. 1.00

00:35:06.000 He's a fun fucking dude to watch. 1.00

00:35:08.000 And he gets dropped in almost every fight he's in. 0.99

00:35:10.000 It was just like a thing.

00:35:11.000 When's Eddie going to get dropped?

00:35:12.000 Boom! 0.99

00:35:12.000 And he gets up and keeps fighting. 0.99

00:35:14.000 It's almost like it wakes him up.

00:35:15.000 Well, he's just so ferocious.

00:35:17.000 Great guy, too, if you haven't met him.

00:35:18.000 He's a great guy.

00:35:19.000 He's so ferocious that it's almost inevitable that he's going to get tagged.

00:35:22.000 Because he's just so, like, throwing it all to the wind.

00:35:25.000 Let's see.

00:35:26.000 Let's find out.

00:35:27.000 He's confident that he can get through it better than you can.

00:35:29.000 Yeah.

00:35:31.000 Like, everybody's going to get cracked.

00:35:32.000 Like, that's why the Geiji fight was so engaging.

00:35:34.000 Like, you knew this is what this fight was going to be.

00:35:37.000 And it was one of the rare fights that 100% lived up to the hype.

00:35:41.000 It was exactly what we thought it was going to be. 0.98

00:35:43.000 It was fucking madness from the beginning to the end. 0.98

00:35:46.000 And when you look at how many, somebody listed it, how many champs from different organizations he's beaten in his career. 0.99

00:35:50.000 Eddie's beaten them all.

00:35:52.000 He's beaten them all.

00:35:53.000 Because he was one of those guys, once again, going back to what we were talking about, where he moved around a lot in his prime.

00:35:58.000 Went from Japan to Bellator and was off a lot of fans' radars.

00:36:01.000 He was like the people that really follow MMA knew Eddie Alvarez.

00:36:06.000 But your casual fan didn't until he made his UFC transition.

00:36:09.000 Is he the only guy that ever won the title in both organizations?

00:36:12.000 Bellator on UFC? Yeah.

00:36:14.000 Yes.

00:36:14.000 Yeah, right?

00:36:15.000 Yeah.

00:36:15.000 No one else else.

00:36:16.000 Yeah. 0.91

00:36:17.000 I mean, that's pretty goddamn impressive. 0.73

00:36:19.000 That's incredible.

00:36:19.000 I think the other guy who has a chance is Lima or Rory, depending upon who wins that fight.

00:36:24.000 Yeah, the winner of that fight is right there with everybody.

00:36:28.000 I mean, you can't deny it.

00:36:29.000 Rory beat Tyron in a very dominant decision.

00:36:33.000 Completely, yeah.

00:36:34.000 Yeah.

00:36:34.000 I mean, and he's lost to guys.

00:36:35.000 He lost to Lawler.

00:36:36.000 And, of course, Lawler got knocked out by Tyron, so you can't do MMA math.

00:36:39.000 Doesn't work.

00:36:40.000 But...

00:36:41.000 Tyron's the champ, and Rory beat him.

00:36:43.000 There's no MMA match involved in that.

00:36:45.000 He's there.

00:36:46.000 I think Tyron's better now.

00:36:48.000 I really do.

00:36:49.000 Definitely.

00:36:50.000 100%.

00:36:50.000 And maybe it would be different if they fought again, but it's just statistically interesting.

00:36:55.000 He says the things when I talked to him when he came over to Bellator.

00:37:01.000 You know, it's funny.

00:37:02.000 We do fighter meetings, fighter interviews, where I sit them down and I talk to them about the upcoming fights and everything.

00:37:07.000 And I don't pay attention to what they say as much as how they say it.

00:37:12.000 And I have to say, Rory McDonald, when he came in, I went, this guy wants to be champion.

00:37:17.000 He's not coming over here going, I'm going to get paid.

00:37:20.000 I mean, he really has a fire in him to be champion.

00:37:23.000 He is 100% devoted to it.

00:37:25.000 And that puts him in rare air.

00:37:27.000 And Lima...

00:37:29.000 If you haven't seen that guy fight, he hits you, you don't know where you are.

00:37:33.000 He puts everything behind every punch.

00:37:35.000 And he can start to anybody in the division.

00:37:37.000 The question to me is, can he handle the takedown?

00:37:39.000 His takedown defense has been suspect in the past.

00:37:41.000 And we'll see if he can handle the takedown of Rory.

00:37:43.000 Yeah, because that's exactly what Rory used on Paul Daly. 0.76

00:37:45.000 He just went right through Paul Daly.

00:37:47.000 And he cracked him first.

00:37:48.000 That's what impressed me, is he cracked him.

00:37:50.000 And it kind of made Daley hesitate, and then, boom, take down some issues.

00:37:53.000 Yeah, you could see that he wanted to let Daley know, this is a fight.

00:37:57.000 I'm going to be a danger on the feet standing, and then guess what?

00:38:01.000 Oh, look, I'm on the ground.

00:38:02.000 I'm not afraid of you anywhere. 0.60

00:38:03.000 And I'm on top of you, and now you're getting strangled. 0.68

00:38:05.000 Yeah.

00:38:05.000 Yeah, as long as he's not afraid of him standing up, then there's no hesitancy in engaging.

00:38:09.000 And he wasn't afraid.

00:38:10.000 I mean, he's the one who drew.

00:38:11.000 I mean, he's the one who landed first.

00:38:13.000 He's top of the food chain, in my opinion.

00:38:15.000 I think he's right up there with anybody at 170 pounds in the world.

00:38:19.000 And I'd like to see him back in the UFC for selfish reasons.

00:38:21.000 Of course you would.

00:38:22.000 I understand. 0.99

00:38:23.000 And I want to see what the fuck is going to happen now. 0.98

00:38:25.000 I mean, the whole division is just topsy-turvy right now. 0.98

00:38:28.000 Yeah.

00:38:29.000 You know?

00:38:30.000 155 and 170, it's all craziness. 0.94

00:38:32.000 There's so much happening right now, with RDA just dominating Robbie Lawler like that, and people clamoring for a title fight for him, and now Tyron had to get shoulder surgery, so Tyron had a torred labrum, apparently tried to rehab it, and eventually wound up getting surgery, so he's out for several months, you know, where he can't do shit.

00:38:52.000 A tough thing whenever, you know, I'm about to order this year or wherever, whenever you have that backlog, Whenever you have a champ who can't defend a title or something like that or he's out for a little bit...

00:39:02.000 The piranhas, I mean, they eat each other.

00:39:03.000 Yeah.

00:39:04.000 You know, if there's no, oh, we're going to get the title.

00:39:06.000 You can go through your prime waiting for that guy to come back from surgery.

00:39:10.000 It could be a year, a second mile, whatever it is.

00:39:11.000 In a division that's that stacked and these guys are killers, you can go through your whole prime trying to climb up that mountain again.

00:39:18.000 It is tough.

00:39:19.000 That's the difference between boxing and MMA, right?

00:39:21.000 Because in boxing, your manager would make you keep that number one contender position.

00:39:26.000 100%.

00:39:26.000 Yeah.

00:39:26.000 They would wait on that one.

00:39:28.000 Let's wait on this one.

00:39:29.000 Or you'd take a risk.

00:39:31.000 Or you'd fight...

00:39:31.000 Nobody's.

00:39:32.000 Yeah, you fight some Joe Lewis bum of the month club.

00:39:35.000 Yeah.

00:39:36.000 That was the thing about boxing.

00:39:37.000 Yeah.

00:39:37.000 Guys would take warm-up fights, tune-up fights.

00:39:40.000 Yeah.

00:39:41.000 And those would also be like highlight fights.

00:39:43.000 Because, you know, you'd tee off on some guy that was below him and everybody would get super excited about this guy that Tyson's about to fight.

00:39:49.000 Yeah.

00:39:50.000 Or whatever it was.

00:39:51.000 Yeah.

00:39:51.000 You know, it's funny.

00:39:51.000 I talked to Steve Hardhood today, actually.

00:39:54.000 We ended up chatting a little bit.

00:39:55.000 He does the boxing for Showtime.

00:39:56.000 He's there.

00:39:58.000 That guy used to be editor for Ring Magazine for like 30 years.

00:40:02.000 You can't stump him about boxing at all.

00:40:04.000 And I've tried.

00:40:05.000 I've had some obscure stuff.

00:40:07.000 He is phenomenal.

00:40:08.000 Everything he knows.

00:40:09.000 We were talking once about the heavyweight division and...

00:40:11.000 Oh, it's not really good right now.

00:40:12.000 And he looked at me and goes, it usually isn't.

00:40:14.000 He said, the heavyweight division usually isn't the most stacked division in boxing.

00:40:18.000 We remember the eras when it was because that really stands out to us.

00:40:21.000 But generally, it's not that good.

00:40:23.000 Usually, 47 is the marquee division with great fighters in it.

00:40:26.000 He's like, the reason Tyson stands out so much is, you talk about, oh, there was nobody even to fight in the 80s.

00:40:30.000 He goes, well, they're usually, what, they're whole decades where it wasn't that good.

00:40:34.000 You know, it happens all the time.

00:40:35.000 Remember when Tony Tubbs was a champ?

00:40:36.000 Yeah.

00:40:36.000 Yeah, there was a lot of guys.

00:40:39.000 Tony Tucker, remember him?

00:40:40.000 Sure, there was a lot of guys.

00:40:42.000 Post-Larry Holmes, there was just a massive amount of guys.

00:40:46.000 Yeah.

00:40:47.000 Trevor Burbick, I mean...

00:40:48.000 Sure.

00:40:49.000 Guys are kind of lost to history at this point.

00:40:51.000 Yeah, that's who Tyson beat, remember?

00:40:52.000 Burbick was the champ.

00:40:54.000 Fell down three times from one punch.

00:40:55.000 That was crazy.

00:40:56.000 I remember it well.

00:40:57.000 Mills Lane was the referee.

00:40:58.000 He was 20, right?

00:40:59.000 Yes.

00:41:01.000 Sorry about that, folks.

00:41:02.000 Youngest heavyweight champion of all time.

00:41:03.000 Boy, I'm coughing.

00:41:04.000 I'm not even sick.

00:41:04.000 But it's almost like...

00:41:05.000 I feel like I have a...

00:41:09.000 You don't eat pistachios.

00:41:10.000 You get one of them little, not the shell, but that little outside layer of the pistachio.

00:41:16.000 I almost feel like I got a little piece of that in the back of my throat.

00:41:18.000 Could be.

00:41:19.000 You never know, man.

00:41:20.000 Could be.

00:41:20.000 You never know.

00:41:21.000 Could be just that jinx of having another commentator across from you, you know?

00:41:25.000 Makes you cough?

00:41:26.000 Project more.

00:41:26.000 You know, you're trying to...

00:41:27.000 I don't think so, dude.

00:41:28.000 It's like a little battle, bro.

00:41:29.000 You know how it is.

00:41:29.000 Are we battling, bro?

00:41:30.000 No, we're good, bro.

00:41:31.000 We're good, bro.

00:41:32.000 Come on. 0.99

00:41:35.000 I want to know what the fuck is going to happen with Connor. 0.99

00:41:37.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:41:38.000 I mean, you and everybody else.

00:41:40.000 You and everybody else.

00:41:41.000 After this performance, Habib has set it up to a place where he's the most terrifying, lightweight contender in the world. 0.98

00:41:50.000 Then you have Tony Ferguson, who's a motherfucker, who's the interim champion. 0.97

00:41:55.000 And then you have Conor, who knows what's going to happen with him. 0.98

00:41:58.000 And I think the UFC is going to give him a little while.

00:42:01.000 I'm going to give them some time, you know, hey, let the holidays pass, see what the fuck happens, and then they're going to have to make some moves.

00:42:07.000 But they want to do a Russia fight. 0.97

00:42:10.000 Yeah.

00:42:10.000 And if they want to do a Russia fight, I know a guy.

00:42:15.000 I know a guy that'll sell some fucking tickets in Russia, baby. 0.99

00:42:19.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:42:20.000 Tony Ferguson and Khabib Nurmagomedov in Russia.

00:42:24.000 What?

00:42:24.000 Khabib is...

00:42:25.000 See what he said on Twitter about this?

00:42:26.000 Connors?

00:42:27.000 What did Connors say?

00:42:29.000 I skin your pets and only wear them once.

00:42:32.000 That was his response.

00:42:33.000 Come on, that's...

00:42:34.000 It's witty! 1.00

00:42:36.000 Truly, truly, get on your fucking knees and beg me. 1.00

00:42:39.000 Otherwise, I don't give a bollocks. 1.00

00:42:41.000 My whiskey is out this year and that's Diddy bread.

00:42:45.000 No, but I think below that is the...

00:42:47.000 So he tweeted the bear thing, and then it was, I skin your pets and I wear them once.

00:42:52.000 Oh, yeah, that's right.

00:42:53.000 That was pretty funny.

00:42:54.000 That's pretty funny.

00:42:55.000 That was comparatively witty. 0.89

00:42:56.000 Yeah, I slaughter your pets and wear them as coats and only wear them once.

00:43:00.000 And I only wear them once? 0.53

00:43:01.000 That's pretty funny. 0.97

00:43:05.000 It's good trash talk. 0.92

00:43:07.000 I like it. 0.89

00:43:07.000 Have you ever seen a documentary called Bobby Fischer Against the World? 0.89

00:43:10.000 No.

00:43:11.000 There's a documentary about Bobby Fischer called Bobby Fischer Against the World.

00:43:14.000 And whether or not you're into chess, you should really, really watch it.

00:43:16.000 I'm into Bobby Fischer.

00:43:17.000 Yeah, okay.

00:43:18.000 It's called Bobby Fischer Against the World.

00:43:20.000 Yeah, he was.

00:43:22.000 And anyway, they interview one of his friends, his long friends, lifelong friends, named Dr. Anthony Sadie.

00:43:31.000 And their last conversation before Bobby cut him off, he said, Bobby, if you don't play chess, eventually there'll come a time where no one will ask you to play chess.

00:43:42.000 Hmm.

00:43:44.000 That's the situation.

00:43:46.000 You can keep doing this in tweets, but the reason you're famous and the reason what you have in front of you is because you fight.

00:43:52.000 And there comes a time when, like I said, the division, the sport and the division, it'll move past you.

00:43:59.000 Now, Conor may have enough money and he doesn't care about that, but that's always a risk.

00:44:04.000 You're an old schooler.

00:44:05.000 Sugar Ray Robinson tried to be a dancer entertainer and it got old and they went...

00:44:09.000 We want to see you fight, and that's all you're going to get paid for. 0.95

00:44:13.000 Now, he may not have enough money that he doesn't care about that.

00:44:16.000 It's certainly possible.

00:44:17.000 But there's no sport, there's no division that won't move past you eventually.

00:44:22.000 And that would be a shame.

00:44:23.000 And he thinks he has enough money.

00:44:26.000 But he's spending like Floyd Mayweather.

00:44:30.000 I mean, he's going off.

00:44:32.000 If you go off like that, after a while you're going to run out of money.

00:44:35.000 Yeah.

00:44:36.000 I mean, it might be 20 years from now, but to see him...

00:44:39.000 Still 20 years.

00:44:40.000 And your window to make money is this big in professional sports.

00:44:43.000 Right.

00:44:44.000 I'm holding up my fingers so people are just listening to this.

00:44:46.000 Yeah, I don't know if that's...

00:44:51.000 I don't know if it's sustainable.

00:44:52.000 I don't know if he's got enough money to live the rest of his life.

00:44:54.000 But he certainly doesn't if he just spends like crazy.

00:44:57.000 I mean, he might just go through a phase, and then he might decide to cherry-pick specific fights to make tremendous amounts of money.

00:45:04.000 And there was some talk about a Pacquiao fight in boxing.

00:45:07.000 Who knows what he's gonna do?

00:45:08.000 But his only sustainable avenue is MMA. Meaning, once again, in boxing, let's say he fights Manny Pacquiao.

00:45:14.000 For argument's sake, let's say he loses that fight.

00:45:17.000 People are going to be tired of spending $70 on a pay-per-view to watch him take on a great guy and fall short.

00:45:22.000 But if he fights Tony Ferguson in a unification fight and KOs Tony Ferguson, Then he can fight Manny Pacquiao all day long.

00:45:30.000 Exactly.

00:45:31.000 It's MMA that sustains him.

00:45:33.000 Don't get mad at me, Tony.

00:45:34.000 It's just a, for instance, a possibility.

00:45:36.000 For argument's sake, Tony.

00:45:37.000 Yeah, I'm taking the devil's advocate position, Tony.

00:45:40.000 Tony got mad at me wearing the hat.

00:45:42.000 He's like, what are you, chaining your 10-planet gear, bro?

00:45:44.000 What were you wearing?

00:45:46.000 I don't know how to say it.

00:45:47.000 Papuka?

00:45:48.000 Oh, that for...

00:45:49.000 Come on, it's a gift.

00:45:50.000 You have to wear that.

00:45:51.000 And listen, just because he's got a problem...

00:45:54.000 I love Tony, but I also love Khabib. 1.00

00:45:56.000 Khabib's a bad motherfucker. 1.00

00:45:58.000 To deny that is ridiculous. 1.00

00:46:00.000 So, alright, I gotta ask. 0.95

00:46:01.000 Commentator to commentator.

00:46:02.000 What's the maddest a fight that's ever been at you for what?

00:46:06.000 Man, I don't know.

00:46:07.000 Because we all have these stories.

00:46:08.000 Not many of them.

00:46:09.000 Usually, I get along with just about everybody, but there are a couple of stories.

00:46:11.000 I get along with just about everybody, too.

00:46:12.000 And if there was every...

00:46:13.000 Oh, Rampage was dramatic once.

00:46:15.000 I remember that, yeah.

00:46:15.000 Because I was saying that he needed to throw more leg kicks or something like that.

00:46:18.000 But it's just because I want him to be successful.

00:46:20.000 And when he does, he's...

00:46:21.000 I just think that guys get a little too knockout heavy sometimes, and I like to see people be more technical and mix it up.

00:46:27.000 It's an addiction, man.

00:46:28.000 And you're never going to get away from the power that Rampage had and has.

00:46:32.000 He's always going to have that power.

00:46:33.000 My thought was what I would like to see as a person who's a fan, I'd like to see him mix it up more and become more technical. 0.96

00:46:39.000 He's always going to have that ridiculous chin. 0.90

00:46:41.000 He's always going to have that unbelievable power. 0.99

00:46:43.000 Those things are not going away.

00:46:45.000 First guy I ever grappled with.

00:46:47.000 Rampage?

00:46:47.000 That's hilarious.

00:46:48.000 First guy I ever grappled with.

00:46:49.000 Really?

00:46:50.000 At a legit studio?

00:46:51.000 I grappled with him once.

00:46:52.000 We were doing something for some television show.

00:46:55.000 That's right, that inside the UFC thing that I used to do way back in the day.

00:47:00.000 That was like when Spike first had the UFC. We did some stuff, and he was getting ready to fight Chuck.

00:47:07.000 And we did some stuff together.

00:47:09.000 A lot of people didn't know who he was.

00:47:10.000 We drove around LA in his monster truck.

00:47:13.000 He had some crazy monster truck.

00:47:15.000 It was like jacked three feet up in the air.

00:47:17.000 If you weren't into Pride, you didn't know who he was.

00:47:18.000 No, nobody knew who he was.

00:47:19.000 At that point, of course.

00:47:20.000 We ran into one of the Wu-Tang Clan.

00:47:21.000 Beat Marvin Eastman before that?

00:47:23.000 I was with Rampage.

00:47:24.000 We ran into one of the Wu-Tang Clan in a weird section of L.A. on Hollywood Boulevard.

00:47:30.000 The Wu-Tang dude was coming out of a check-cashing place.

00:47:35.000 I forget which guy it was. 0.99

00:47:36.000 We were having a good fucking time, though. 0.98

00:47:38.000 That was before anybody knew who Rampage was. 0.96

00:47:41.000 I misunderstood him, because he was going by this, once again, like 99, 2000. I had finished at UCLA, where I... First, I got my taste of jiu-jitsu at UCLA, and then I graduated, and I went to Team Punishment, and I get on the mat, and Fabiano Iha was a coach there at the time.

00:47:54.000 Fabiano Iha.

00:47:56.000 One of the best arm bars in the day.

00:47:58.000 Good foot locks, too.

00:47:59.000 His arm bar was fire. 0.98

00:48:01.000 Sick. 0.62

00:48:01.000 Especially far side. 0.62

00:48:02.000 And so I got on the mat, and I shake hands with this dude, and I said, Hey, my name's Jimmy.

00:48:10.000 And he goes, I'm Rampage.

00:48:11.000 And I thought I misunderstood him.

00:48:13.000 I was like, he can't sit.

00:48:15.000 You know, I was like, is it Randall or something?

00:48:16.000 And I just misunderstood him.

00:48:18.000 And all I knew was I knew armbar and a footlock at the time.

00:48:21.000 And he was so big, I was like, I'm just going to footlock him.

00:48:23.000 And I went for all these straight footlocks on him.

00:48:25.000 I got him, I got him, I got him.

00:48:27.000 And then I got an armbar on him and he lifted me up to the ceiling. 0.99

00:48:31.000 With one arm and just aroned my ass. 1.00

00:48:33.000 Just went, boom! 1.00

00:48:34.000 Dropped right on me.

00:48:35.000 And Fabiano comes running over mad.

00:48:38.000 Like, oh, you're not supposed to do that.

00:48:39.000 And he starts screaming at him.

00:48:40.000 And he walks off.

00:48:41.000 And Rampage turns to me and goes, yeah, we're cool, right?

00:48:44.000 And I said, yeah, we're fine, man.

00:48:45.000 I'm a wrestler.

00:48:45.000 No big deal.

00:48:46.000 I've been slammed before.

00:48:47.000 And that was it.

00:48:48.000 That's how I met Quentin, man, back then.

00:48:50.000 He was fighting King of the Cage.

00:48:51.000 It was like his second fight.

00:48:52.000 I was there right after his first fight or before his first fight.

00:48:55.000 Like, literally, he was just getting started.

00:48:56.000 Like, living in his car stuff.

00:48:57.000 And now he's come very, very far.

00:48:59.000 He's one of those guys I'm really glad...

00:49:01.000 Didn't he fight Marvin Eastman in one of his first fights?

00:49:04.000 I believe that was his first fight.

00:49:06.000 His first fight at King of the Cage in California was Marvin Eastman.

00:49:09.000 I think he fought once in Tennessee or something.

00:49:10.000 But yeah, his first fight was Marvin Eastman.

00:49:12.000 He lost by decision.

00:49:13.000 Man.

00:49:15.000 And then he just started beating guys up.

00:49:17.000 Long history this sport has now when you think about it.

00:49:20.000 It's interesting because it's all just sort of accumulated.

00:49:22.000 Like the different styles and the different abilities. 0.99

00:49:26.000 Do you remember how tough, especially in California in the early 2000s, The local scene was a motherfucker. 0.99

00:49:32.000 Oh, yeah, man. 0.97

00:49:33.000 Because the UFC, like, MMA was big.

00:49:35.000 It was not big, but it was pop.

00:49:36.000 It was cool.

00:49:37.000 It was popular.

00:49:38.000 It was fun.

00:49:40.000 And there weren't many big shows.

00:49:41.000 So guys had to fight on the local level for a while to get enough fights to get there.

00:49:46.000 And also, once again, the contracts weren't that restrictive.

00:49:49.000 So in between UFC fights, because they didn't have that many, guys could go down to King of the Cage and make some money.

00:49:54.000 So you'd see some really talented guys.

00:49:56.000 At King of the Cage.

00:49:57.000 King of the Cage was always weird Indian shows.

00:50:01.000 Indian casinos.

00:50:01.000 Suboba Casino, man.

00:50:02.000 That's where I fought the first time.

00:50:03.000 I fought like four of my fights up there.

00:50:05.000 There was a bunch of casinos that would have it, and it all had to be Native American reservations, but they had their own rules.

00:50:11.000 Yeah, it was illegal.

00:50:11.000 Weighing in on a bathroom scale?

00:50:13.000 Like literally on a bathroom scale in the lobby of the hotel and Ted would look down and go, yeah, you're good, you know, whatever.

00:50:19.000 The doctor's chest was like, can you find your nose?

00:50:21.000 Can you stand on one foot?

00:50:23.000 Can you stand on the other foot?

00:50:23.000 Okay, get in there.

00:50:24.000 It was literally, that was it.

00:50:25.000 It was crazy.

00:50:27.000 Wild West, man.

00:50:28.000 Do you remember when the King of the Cage, it got rainy and they decided to let everybody fight anyway?

00:50:31.000 Wet and wild, bro!

00:50:33.000 Wet and wild!

00:50:35.000 That was crazy.

00:50:36.000 Eve Edwards fought on that card against Jeremy Winters. 1.00

00:50:37.000 Did he really?

00:50:38.000 I believe so.

00:50:39.000 From Team NG? Team Next Generation?

00:50:41.000 Remember him?

00:50:41.000 Yeah, I do.

00:50:42.000 Yeah.

00:50:42.000 That was a solid team.

00:50:43.000 Chris Brandon's camp, man, back then.

00:50:45.000 Yeah.

00:50:45.000 Solid dudes, man.

00:50:46.000 Yeah, there was the two Jeremy Williams, right?

00:50:48.000 It was the one who eventually fought in tough, who wound up getting locked up.

00:50:51.000 And then it was Jeremy, the original one who took his own life.

00:50:54.000 Yeah, took his own life.

00:50:56.000 Very sad story.

00:50:57.000 He was a really interesting guy.

00:50:59.000 Super talented, too.

00:51:00.000 I fought in a grappling match against Jerry at No Limits.

00:51:03.000 Remember No Limits?

00:51:04.000 Yeah.

00:51:05.000 So I got a call from the guy who ran No Limits, and he called me.

00:51:09.000 He said, hey, I have a grappling tournament coming up.

00:51:10.000 Would you like to...

00:51:12.000 Fight!

00:51:12.000 Because I was doing grappling terms at the time.

00:51:15.000 I said, yeah, sure, no problem, man.

00:51:16.000 And he goes, you have a super fight against Jeremy Williams. 1.00

00:51:19.000 And I went, fuck. 1.00

00:51:20.000 Because I had seen Jeremy Williams. 1.00

00:51:21.000 He was locally in California.

00:51:23.000 He was known.

00:51:24.000 And we got in this ring or whatever and we fought.

00:51:27.000 And I caught him in a toehold.

00:51:28.000 And he tapped and...

00:51:33.000 I went back into the locker room and he's bawling, like, bawling, bawling, bawling, like, devastated.

00:51:41.000 And I remember thinking at the time, It wasn't a grappling tournament he got caught.

00:51:47.000 I mean, it happens.

00:51:48.000 His whole team was around him like a funeral or something.

00:51:52.000 And I went up to him and I was like, man, I've always been a huge fan, which is true.

00:51:56.000 On the local level, especially at that time, he was here.

00:51:58.000 He was a level above most guys.

00:52:00.000 And I told him, man, I'm a huge fan and it's an honor to fight you.

00:52:03.000 And he said, thank you.

00:52:03.000 And he hugged me.

00:52:04.000 But I remember thinking at the time, something's going on.

00:52:07.000 He just seemed so...

00:52:09.000 Emotional, so devastated.

00:52:10.000 I didn't know what was going on in his lifetime.

00:52:12.000 When I went to Japan for Fight Quest, I read that he had taken his own life.

00:52:17.000 That was tough, man.

00:52:18.000 That was tough.

00:52:20.000 Woof.

00:52:21.000 Yeah.

00:52:22.000 It's not all sunshine and rainbows in MMA. Well, it certainly isn't in any combat sport, right?

00:52:27.000 It's tough.

00:52:28.000 And it's hard to tell what's happening.

00:52:30.000 Is it what leads you to it in the first place?

00:52:32.000 Is you have this burning desire to get back at people and your emotions are in turmoil?

00:52:37.000 And obviously everybody's different.

00:52:38.000 Yeah, man.

00:52:39.000 It's one of the things about Rory that's so unique.

00:52:41.000 People have this idea of him. 0.98

00:52:43.000 And then he did my podcast, and one of the things that people said, like, oh, he's fucking normal. 0.89

00:52:48.000 Like, he's like a regular guy. 0.82

00:52:49.000 Yeah.

00:52:50.000 He just, when he's fighting, he's really serious.

00:52:52.000 Yeah, but when you talk, everybody thought he was like this complete, like, total silent psycho.

00:52:57.000 Yeah.

00:52:58.000 But then he's doing the podcast, he's joking around, he's self-deprecating, he's super honest about, like, what happens to him when he trains too much, you know, he breaks down.

00:53:06.000 Yeah.

00:53:07.000 And he can't do it anymore.

00:53:08.000 He's scheduled his training differently.

00:53:11.000 He's not like I'm some Superman.

00:53:12.000 I can't be stopped.

00:53:13.000 I'm never tired. 0.99

00:53:14.000 I'll fucking keep pushing. 0.98

00:53:15.000 There was none of that. 0.98

00:53:17.000 People always ask me about Chael.

00:53:19.000 Like, what's that dude?

00:53:19.000 He's a totally normal guy in real life.

00:53:22.000 He's funny.

00:53:23.000 He's engaging.

00:53:24.000 Self-deprecating, too.

00:53:26.000 I talked to him after the Tito fight.

00:53:28.000 He comes up to us.

00:53:30.000 We were calling a fight after he'd already fought Tito.

00:53:32.000 We're calling this fight.

00:53:33.000 He goes, well, I'm a competency shot.

00:53:36.000 Beyond that, I'm done crying.

00:53:38.000 I was in the bathroom just bawling.

00:53:40.000 He's a funny dude.

00:53:41.000 He's really a funny guy.

00:53:42.000 When he choked out Shogun, he said something to the effect of, he goes, if you think I'm going to sit here and listen to a middle-aged comedian tell me what to do, I just choked out a world champion.

00:53:54.000 Something along those lines.

00:53:55.000 You just wait for it.

00:53:57.000 When I interview him, and by the way, for people who say, I don't know how it is for you, interviews are...

00:54:04.000 If not the hardest part of our job, the X factors in interviews.

00:54:08.000 Because everybody asks me, and this is kind of like a behind-the-scenes thing.

00:54:11.000 People don't know.

00:54:12.000 Whether or not we do an interview is a production call, 100%.

00:54:15.000 We don't decide.

00:54:16.000 I don't decide personally whether or not somebody gets an interview.

00:54:19.000 When I was doing Bellator, we have commercials.

00:54:21.000 So they have a commercial inventory.

00:54:22.000 We've got to get to them.

00:54:23.000 If fights end quickly, we get interviews.

00:54:25.000 If they don't, we don't.

00:54:27.000 It doesn't matter who the fighter is and what they're doing.

00:54:28.000 But it's not my call.

00:54:30.000 Right.

00:54:31.000 They're geeked up on adrenaline.

00:54:33.000 They're all over the place.

00:54:35.000 The producers in my ear are going, you have one or two questions, how many I have time for.

00:54:40.000 They can go off crazy.

00:54:41.000 You just don't know.

00:54:42.000 It's the most X-factor part of our job because it's off the format.

00:54:46.000 You're up there holding the mic and they could...

00:54:49.000 Say whatever.

00:54:49.000 You have no idea what they're saying, what they're doing.

00:54:51.000 You're trying to keep them in one place?

00:54:53.000 People don't realize that.

00:54:53.000 People go, oh, you guys are always touching the fighter.

00:54:55.000 If they start moving, all the cameras move, guys, and it ruins the shot.

00:54:59.000 We're trying to keep them in one place.

00:55:01.000 When I put my hand on a guy, what I'm trying to do, or gal, whatever, I'm trying to keep them in one place so the two cameras get a shot of them.

00:55:07.000 And they kind of sense it, too.

00:55:08.000 It works.

00:55:09.000 It really works.

00:55:10.000 But when they have adrenaline, they'll start spinning around.

00:55:12.000 Or they're trying to address the crowd, and they start turning around.

00:55:14.000 You're trying to keep them in one spot.

00:55:15.000 I had one guy, one of the weirdest tweets I've ever gotten.

00:55:19.000 Sometimes you'll catch me on camera pointing at the ground.

00:55:22.000 And what I'm saying is, stand right here.

00:55:24.000 Come to me and stand right here.

00:55:26.000 So that's where the camera shot is.

00:55:28.000 And so every now and then you'll catch me doing that.

00:55:31.000 And what I'm doing is, yeah, stand right here.

00:55:32.000 Because my director used to always get mad at me because I would go to the fighter and ruin the shot.

00:55:35.000 He wants them to come to them, so it's the center.

00:55:38.000 This weirdo tweet me, he goes, it is so racist the way you point to your shoes when it's a...

00:55:44.000 What? 0.64

00:55:45.000 I swear to God. 0.97

00:55:46.000 He said, like, you point to your shoes when it's a black fighter. 0.54

00:55:50.000 And the last card hadn't had any black fighters. 0.98

00:55:52.000 Dude, you got trolled.

00:55:53.000 I was crying laughing. 1.00

00:55:56.000 That's some kid from 4chan fucking with you. 1.00

00:55:58.000 But, like, how demeaning. 1.00

00:56:00.000 And you point to your shoes when you're...

00:56:02.000 I was like, what do I do?

00:56:03.000 Explain to you how a two-shot works?

00:56:05.000 It's hilarious.

00:56:05.000 Or people get mad at me because, why didn't that fighter get an interview?

00:56:08.000 And I'm like...

00:56:08.000 It's literally a timing thing.

00:56:10.000 Yeah, you can't read that stuff.

00:56:12.000 Oh, you can't at all.

00:56:13.000 I'll read it.

00:56:13.000 That's about it.

00:56:14.000 I don't engage with anybody. 0.99

00:56:16.000 I don't have better shit to do. 0.97

00:56:17.000 But you can't get upset at people that don't understand the format. 0.99

00:56:19.000 It's crazy.

00:56:20.000 You're upset.

00:56:21.000 You're legitimately upset.

00:56:22.000 That's not what I was doing. 1.00

00:56:23.000 Not the fucking shoes. 1.00

00:56:24.000 Yeah, they really lose it over shit. 1.00

00:56:27.000 But it's a small percentage. 1.00

00:56:28.000 There's a million people watching and you get one shitty tweet.

00:56:31.000 You've really got to think about the numbers. 0.79

00:56:32.000 Oh, yeah.

00:56:33.000 Well, the thing to me, too, is when I left Bellator, when it came out, whatever it was, the 26th, The response, like, kind of blew me away.

00:56:41.000 I mean, I was hearing from people that I didn't even know, they knew who I was.

00:56:43.000 Just, you know, everybody was just, it was a huge deal.

00:56:46.000 I couldn't believe it.

00:56:47.000 You know, I didn't expect all the support I got.

00:56:48.000 And I really appreciate anybody listening.

00:56:50.000 I really, really appreciated it.

00:56:52.000 When something like that happens, it's the first time I heard from you was when I left Bell for the first time.

00:56:56.000 When Bjorn was, you know, being Bjorn, and I left.

00:56:59.000 And you wrote me, man, keep your head up.

00:57:00.000 It's gonna be great.

00:57:01.000 And I was like, I didn't know you knew who I was.

00:57:03.000 You don't know.

00:57:03.000 You're kind of cut off.

00:57:04.000 You have no idea.

00:57:05.000 But the support you get when you really need it's really amazing from MMA fans.

00:57:07.000 Well, if you're a fan of the sport and you enjoy watching it, you want a commentator who appreciates it and knows what he's talking about and is entertaining.

00:57:16.000 Like, you take good paths, you know, when you describe things.

00:57:19.000 Thank you. 0.96

00:57:20.000 You criticize referees if they make shitty calls.

00:57:22.000 You do the right thing. 0.62

00:57:23.000 You know, you speak up for the people that are watching.

00:57:25.000 That's something that's so hard.

00:57:27.000 You have to do it.

00:57:28.000 Yeah.

00:57:29.000 You have to do it even if you love the referee.

00:57:30.000 Even if you love the referee.

00:57:31.000 But a lot of things are like...

00:57:32.000 I love this.

00:57:34.000 And Big John, if you're listening, I would love to hear an explanation of this because this is one of the funniest moments I've ever had commentating.

00:57:41.000 It was Marlon Sandro versus Frodo Hospeliev at 145 in Bellator.

00:57:47.000 And I forget who got a cup shot, but somebody got a cup shot.

00:57:50.000 Boom! 0.99

00:57:51.000 Kick to the nuts. 1.00

00:57:52.000 And Big John walks up to him and goes, And he was mic'd, so I could hear it. 0.84

00:57:57.000 He goes, that wasn't a bad shot.

00:57:59.000 I'm only giving you two minutes.

00:58:01.000 And I went, I'm on air going...

00:58:04.000 I don't think he can do that.

00:58:06.000 It's either five minutes or he didn't get hit.

00:58:08.000 He has to keep fighting.

00:58:10.000 But he went up to him and goes, that wasn't bad.

00:58:11.000 I'm going to give you two minutes.

00:58:12.000 So I have to explain that to an audience and go, as far as I know, he can't do that.

00:58:18.000 It's either five or it's nothing.

00:58:20.000 When a referee does something like that, I'm trying to explain to the audience what he might be thinking.

00:58:26.000 Like, ah, that didn't look bad to me, but here's what he's thinking.

00:58:29.000 And then a lot of people think you're defending the referee.

00:58:32.000 No, I'm trying to think about what could possibly make him do that.

00:58:35.000 You have to ride that line.

00:58:36.000 And go, ah, this is what he's thinking.

00:58:38.000 I disagree about that, but that's got to be with him.

00:58:42.000 I bring in Ratner.

00:58:43.000 The good thing about the UFC is you bring in Mark Ratner, and Mark Ratner goes over the actual law, or the rules, rather, and how it's set up.

00:58:51.000 One of the things that's interesting, we did a show in Detroit, And I believe it was in Detroit and Michigan, they make use of the replay, but when they use the replay, the fight is over.

00:59:03.000 Wow.

00:59:03.000 So they make use of their instant replay, but if they do have to go to the instant replay, the fight is over.

00:59:09.000 For what?

00:59:09.000 For a no contest?

00:59:10.000 For anything.

00:59:11.000 Only if it's a no contest.

00:59:12.000 But when would that even be useful?

00:59:14.000 If you have to end the fight?

00:59:15.000 Well, it's some sort of an injury, or if someone claims that a shot was in an illegal area.

00:59:21.000 So to declare a no contest.

00:59:23.000 Yeah.

00:59:23.000 That's the only way it could really work.

00:59:24.000 Well, the only way they can go to, once they go to a replay, so if the referee makes his call, and then they request some sort of a going to the instant replay, the fight is over.

00:59:33.000 There's no fighting after the instant replay is played.

00:59:36.000 Weird.

00:59:38.000 It's so funny when people ask me about why there's so many controversies in MMA.

00:59:45.000 Combat sports is the only major sport, boxing and MMA, where the rules are kind of subjective.

00:59:52.000 The scoring is kind of subjective.

00:59:53.000 When a fight is over, it's kind of subjective.

00:59:55.000 There's just so much room for interpretation in every facet of our sport.

00:59:59.000 When a referee stops a fight, it's his judgment as to whether or not intelligently defending yourself is the case.

01:00:06.000 The scoring, 10-8, 10-9, that's completely...

01:00:10.000 They make criteria, but in the end, effective striking and effective grappling is subjective.

01:00:16.000 And also the fouls.

01:00:17.000 When I was in Israel, a guy took, Jeremiah Labiano took a groin shot and then shot to the back of the head and the referee took a point.

01:00:24.000 Two different infractions.

01:00:25.000 A lot of referees won't do that.

01:00:26.000 You have to have at least two of the same infraction.

01:00:29.000 The ref took a point away. 0.76

01:00:30.000 He's allowed to do that.

01:00:32.000 So, so much of the sport is subjective.

01:00:34.000 That's why there are so many arguments about this sport is, you know, So many subjective elements in it.

01:00:39.000 That's why it's so important to have really good referees.

01:00:42.000 It's hard to find them.

01:00:43.000 They don't get any praise and they only get hate when they mess up.

01:00:47.000 Yeah, that's about it.

01:00:48.000 They don't get praise when they do the job well.

01:00:51.000 I mean, what you said is perfect.

01:00:53.000 The most locked solid is the rules.

01:00:55.000 That's the most locked solid.

01:00:57.000 But the scoring is very subjective.

01:00:59.000 And when we were talking about the Khabib fight, even though they were using the old system, I mean the scorecards were crazy.

01:01:07.000 Khabib was way ahead of him.

01:01:09.000 See if you can find it, Jamie.

01:01:13.000 But Khabib was way, way out in front. 0.50

01:01:15.000 That's something I do not miss doing is...

01:01:18.000 Scoring?

01:01:18.000 Scoring.

01:01:19.000 Yeah, I don't think it's smart.

01:01:21.000 I do not miss that at all.

01:01:21.000 I know they used to make you do that over at Bellator.

01:01:24.000 I don't miss that at all.

01:01:25.000 I mean, I'll mentally kind of score a fight as I'm going along, but...

01:01:30.000 What's so funny is people's reactions to it.

01:01:32.000 It's not that I mind doing it.

01:01:33.000 It's that people...

01:01:33.000 You know, Steve Farhood, like I said, I just finished talking to you, who does it for Strikeforce, he's like, oh yeah, you can't make a scorecard that everyone agrees with.

01:01:41.000 Most people agree with it, it seems.

01:01:43.000 We're on a 10-point must system, meaning 10 or less, and we have 30-25, 30-25, and 30-24 for a three-round fight.

01:01:52.000 So clearly, these are extraordinary scores.

01:01:55.000 30-24 is 10-8 in every round.

01:01:57.000 10-8 in every round.

01:01:58.000 I would say the other two were 10-8 in the last two rounds.

01:02:01.000 That would be my guess.

01:02:02.000 I think it's right, though.

01:02:04.000 I think 30-24 is right.

01:02:06.000 100%.

01:02:06.000 That was a mauling.

01:02:07.000 What I used to look for before the rule change was...

01:02:12.000 Complete dominance.

01:02:13.000 It's got to be one-sided.

01:02:14.000 And there have to be moments where I go, this should be stopped.

01:02:17.000 And there were a couple of those moments in every round in the Khabib fight.

01:02:22.000 We talked about in between rounds, Dominic Cruz and I, after the fourth round, or the second round rather, we said, do you think that this is a good argument for a stoppage right here?

01:02:32.000 That the corner could be really within their best judgment to say, hey, this is enough.

01:02:37.000 The people I was with turned to me and they said, what do you tell your guy at this point?

01:02:41.000 I say, show me something.

01:02:43.000 If you don't show me something, first minute of this fight, towel's going in.

01:02:46.000 You gotta tell your guy, look, you're getting handled here.

01:02:49.000 We gotta start thinking about your health and your future. 1.00

01:02:52.000 If I don't see something in the first minute, I'm calling this motherfucker. 0.99

01:02:54.000 Yeah, could you imagine if Edson landed a flying knee three minutes into the third round? 0.99

01:03:00.000 I mean, if he did turn that fight around, it would have been one of the greatest comebacks of all time.

01:03:04.000 Which he was capable of doing.

01:03:05.000 He's the kind of guy who could maybe throw that kind of thing.

01:03:07.000 It just didn't seem like it was going to work on Khabib.

01:03:10.000 He was mauling him to an extent where he was draining his energy to the point where Edson would get up And he was trying to be mobile, but you could see the wobble in his step.

01:03:19.000 He just wasn't steady.

01:03:20.000 He wasn't able to uncork, and he was just under assault.

01:03:23.000 Constantly under assault.

01:03:24.000 There's a difference between a guy who can knock you out and a guy who's naturally heavy-handed.

01:03:32.000 Everything they throw is hard.

01:03:34.000 Barbosa is a knockout guy, but it's essentially his accuracy.

01:03:37.000 He's very, very precise with what he throws.

01:03:40.000 He's not heavy-handed enough to necessarily club you with a shot and knock you out.

01:03:45.000 It's more his kicks than anything.

01:03:46.000 Yeah, know what kind of guy you have, in a sense.

01:03:49.000 Once again, Patricio Pitbull and Beltor, that dude's just heavy-handed.

01:03:52.000 He can hit you with anything that's going to hurt you.

01:03:53.000 So, if your guy is that kind of guy, maybe he wins it last 30 seconds the last round.

01:03:58.000 But if you're a kicking guy who needs accuracy and timing and a guy is coming forward like Khabib was coming forward, You don't have a ton of options.

01:04:07.000 Know what kind of guy you have.

01:04:09.000 What guy you are.

01:04:10.000 In a lot of ways, it was a giant test for Khabib because we wanted to see what he looked like against one of the most elite strikers in the division.

01:04:18.000 With a lot of time off, too.

01:04:19.000 It also was a big test for Barboza.

01:04:22.000 You're going to have to use your hands here a lot, and that's never been his strong suit.

01:04:25.000 His strong suit has been his kicking.

01:04:27.000 Well, he knew how to negate that.

01:04:28.000 He moved forward the whole time.

01:04:29.000 Yeah.

01:04:29.000 And Fedor Krokop.

01:04:30.000 Fedor stepped forward the entire time knowing that Krokop needs an outside game for that to work.

01:04:35.000 He needs to set the footwork traps.

01:04:36.000 And it's so difficult to move back constantly.

01:04:39.000 It's so much more exhausting to constantly moving back and, you know, Barboza was just getting chased.

01:04:44.000 Imagine if that fight was in, you know, we have two cages.

01:04:47.000 We have the smaller cage they use for the ultimate fighter and then the bigger cage they use for...

01:04:51.000 I kind of like the idea of the smaller cage for everything.

01:04:54.000 I kind of think that you can move around a certain amount.

01:04:57.000 That big-ass cage. 1.00

01:04:58.000 Like, let's get some more seats in this bitch. 1.00

01:05:00.000 Let's put that little cage in here. 1.00

01:05:03.000 I mean...

01:05:04.000 The only problem is...

01:05:05.000 I fought in some tiny cages.

01:05:07.000 There's been some real little ones that they used to have.

01:05:10.000 Some of those local shows.

01:05:12.000 Real little ones.

01:05:13.000 Like, smaller than this room.

01:05:14.000 Whenever I trained, it was always never more than, like, two steps backward.

01:05:17.000 Because you hit the cage.

01:05:18.000 You start hitting the fence.

01:05:20.000 You get cornered.

01:05:21.000 So whenever we train, it was two steps left, two steps right, two steps left.

01:05:24.000 That severely limits a lot of your striking.

01:05:28.000 100%.

01:05:30.000 But it is what it is, man.

01:05:31.000 Have you ever thought about, like, alternative venues?

01:05:35.000 Like, what would be a good alternative venue for everybody?

01:05:37.000 We talked about it on the podcast with the fight companions all the time where I think like a football field or a basketball court.

01:05:43.000 I think like something where you fight in the center and you have plenty of room where you never go outside of it and you duke it out there. 0.97

01:05:48.000 Like Lionheart and shit? 0.97

01:05:50.000 Like that? 1.00

01:05:50.000 Like an underground basement? 1.00

01:05:51.000 No, I mean, that's like outside.

01:05:53.000 Like in a pool. 1.00

01:05:54.000 Remember when they fought in a pool, motherfucker? 1.00

01:05:56.000 Remember that? 0.99

01:05:56.000 We show fights in the same arenas where they have basketball games, right? 0.99

01:06:01.000 We've got all these dudes running around in this area, but then when the fight takes place, all of a sudden we've got to put up a cage. 0.98

01:06:07.000 How about you just keep that same size area, the guy standing in the center, And there's a warning track where people are waiting on the outside edges to tell them to go back in.

01:06:15.000 But there's never a time we can press someone up against the cage to try to get a takedown.

01:06:20.000 It just doesn't exist.

01:06:21.000 There's no cage.

01:06:22.000 So you don't have that extra thing that's in there that's a factor.

01:06:25.000 Because the cage is a factor.

01:06:28.000 100%.

01:06:28.000 It's a factor in your backward movement.

01:06:30.000 It's a factor in your ability to get back up.

01:06:32.000 It's also a factor in some people's ability to hold you in place and to defend against submissions.

01:06:37.000 The cage, you can't roll into certain things.

01:06:40.000 Well, if that wasn't there, that would change a lot of what a wrestler can do inside the octagon for sure. 0.93

01:06:46.000 It would either be awesome or absolutely terrible.

01:06:49.000 There's not a lot of middle ground for that.

01:06:50.000 Yeah.

01:06:51.000 That's true.

01:06:52.000 I think...

01:06:52.000 Do you remember when Frank Shamrock tried to do something like that?

01:06:54.000 He had a thing called Shoot Box.

01:06:56.000 Do you remember that?

01:06:57.000 Yeah, I do.

01:06:58.000 Yeah, I do.

01:06:59.000 I never saw.

01:06:59.000 It was like a shallow bowl.

01:07:03.000 And you would fight in the middle of it.

01:07:04.000 Yama did that.

01:07:05.000 Yep.

01:07:05.000 The Yama pit fighting thing, yeah.

01:07:07.000 So did Chuck Norris's World Combat League, and they have kickboxing and that kind of a thing.

01:07:12.000 They had like a little...

01:07:13.000 Raymond Dan was fun.

01:07:14.000 Yep, he did.

01:07:14.000 I think Wonderboy might have as well.

01:07:16.000 Yeah, I think he did.

01:07:17.000 Crazy. 1.00

01:07:19.000 Raymond Daniels is a fucking monster. 1.00

01:07:21.000 That guy's beastly. 1.00

01:07:22.000 John Wayne Parr, bro!

01:07:23.000 Dude, John Wayne Parr.

01:07:24.000 Representing the old man in the sport.

01:07:26.000 That's awesome.

01:07:26.000 41, still smashing people.

01:07:28.000 Dude, unbelievable.

01:07:29.000 Yeah.

01:07:30.000 Yeah, Bellator kickboxing, that's one thing that I really enjoyed that they did.

01:07:34.000 That they really focused on world-class kickboxing, you know?

01:07:38.000 I mean, guys like Joe Schilling, Raymond Daniels, they have...

01:07:44.000 Like, some of the best people from the kickboxing world that came over, were competing for them, and they're making a big deal out of it.

01:07:51.000 Yeah.

01:07:51.000 And just putting on exciting fights.

01:07:52.000 Scott Coker's baby.

01:07:53.000 He really loves kickboxing.

01:07:55.000 I know, he does.

01:07:56.000 Yeah.

01:07:57.000 Well, didn't he used to work for K-1?

01:07:58.000 Yep.

01:07:59.000 It was his thing, man.

01:08:00.000 Yeah.

01:08:00.000 That's where he started.

01:08:01.000 Way back in the day.

01:08:02.000 I think I got tickets for him from the Bellagio.

01:08:05.000 Like, way back in the day when Peter Ertz fought Stefan Lecco.

01:08:08.000 Yep. 1.00

01:08:08.000 Oh, shit. 1.00

01:08:09.000 Old school. 1.00

01:08:10.000 Touched lumberjack, man.

01:08:12.000 Yeah, man.

01:08:13.000 Brutal.

01:08:14.000 Yeah, I'm a big fan of kickboxing.

01:08:17.000 I like the fact that Bellator decided to engage with both of those things.

01:08:21.000 Kevin Ross, Gaston Bellanos, but I just wish they would have a completely separate thing.

01:08:28.000 And they're calling it Bellator too, and people get confused.

01:08:32.000 Is this Bellator?

01:08:33.000 Bellator kickboxing?

01:08:34.000 Yeah.

01:08:35.000 Well, what they do is, obviously, they piggyback off the MMA shows that already exist, so we shoot them together.

01:08:40.000 Right.

01:08:40.000 So they just change the ring to a cage.

01:08:42.000 How long does it take?

01:08:43.000 It lowers from the ceiling.

01:08:45.000 It's actually really cool if you've ever seen it before.

01:08:47.000 Yeah.

01:08:47.000 So what happens is, when they start out with the ring, they have the ring set up, and all they have to do is change the mat, and they take out the ropes, and then the cage comes from the ceiling.

01:08:58.000 They have it suspended up there with the lights.

01:09:00.000 And it comes down, and they play 2001, and they latch it in, and then MMA starts.

01:09:03.000 Dude.

01:09:04.000 Yeah, it's pretty cool.

01:09:05.000 Some people have recorded it.

01:09:07.000 Well, you know what's interesting?

01:09:09.000 Bellator, whether intentionally or not, they nailed the correct shape for a platform in which a ring sits on.

01:09:17.000 Because the Bernard Hopkins fight, when he fought Joe Smith Jr. and he got knocked out, he went flying through the ropes and fell and hit his head.

01:09:23.000 I was like, ah!

01:09:23.000 How is this not protected?

01:09:25.000 How do they not have that figured out?

01:09:27.000 Well, the way to have figured it out would be to have more space on the outside of the ring.

01:09:31.000 The idea that you could just fall right through the ring and there's nothing there to catch you, all you would need is an extra four or five feet.

01:09:37.000 That's what we have.

01:09:38.000 Perfect.

01:09:39.000 It's perfect.

01:09:40.000 You guys, they figured it out.

01:09:43.000 You're not them anymore, bro.

01:09:44.000 I'll get used to it.

01:09:47.000 Eventually. 1.00

01:09:49.000 They fucked up. 0.99

01:09:50.000 Who's going to take your spot? 1.00

01:09:51.000 I have no idea.

01:09:52.000 I really have no idea.

01:09:54.000 I mean, I have a couple theories, but I don't know.

01:09:58.000 I have no idea.

01:09:59.000 Now, when it goes over to the Paramount Network, when does that happen?

01:10:02.000 Now?

01:10:02.000 Is it 2018?

01:10:03.000 On the 18th.

01:10:03.000 Look at this.

01:10:04.000 Yeah, see, they lowered it from the ceiling.

01:10:07.000 And they use a round one.

01:10:09.000 Yeah, we use a round cage, yeah.

01:10:10.000 So it sits right in.

01:10:11.000 I like round, too.

01:10:13.000 There's no need to have sharp edges.

01:10:14.000 But the octagon, it's like, it is what it is.

01:10:17.000 It's a thing now.

01:10:18.000 It's a thing.

01:10:19.000 Yeah.

01:10:19.000 Round's pretty dope, though.

01:10:21.000 Not bad, man.

01:10:22.000 Works pretty well.

01:10:25.000 I'm sorry, what were you saying?

01:10:26.000 Who might replace me?

01:10:27.000 I don't know.

01:10:28.000 Yeah.

01:10:29.000 I have no idea.

01:10:30.000 Have they ever taught about changing their name?

01:10:32.000 No.

01:10:32.000 They did years ago.

01:10:35.000 Really?

01:10:35.000 Years ago.

01:10:36.000 What were the options?

01:10:37.000 I don't know.

01:10:37.000 I think at one point they were thinking about using the network name.

01:10:41.000 So it'd be like Spike MMA. But I don't know how far that went or how many options they had.

01:10:46.000 I don't know.

01:10:46.000 Why not?

01:10:47.000 Like HBO Boxing.

01:10:48.000 Showtime Boxing.

01:10:48.000 Yeah, kind of like that.

01:10:49.000 Yeah.

01:10:50.000 Spike MMA. I think that's the way to go.

01:10:52.000 Yeah.

01:10:53.000 The UFV... Well, now it's not going to work.

01:10:55.000 The Paramount Network MMA, which doesn't roll off the tongue exactly.

01:10:59.000 Spike MMA sounds good.

01:11:00.000 Yeah.

01:11:01.000 Yeah, Paramount MMA. They were considering that.

01:11:03.000 Well, yeah, the 18th, I think, they change over?

01:11:05.000 Yeah.

01:11:05.000 Yeah, and then their first Bell Tour show on there was on the 20th, two days after.

01:11:09.000 Hmm.

01:11:10.000 Yeah.

01:11:10.000 Spike TV MMA. Yeah, why Paramount Network?

01:11:15.000 Paramount.

01:11:15.000 Come on.

01:11:17.000 You had Spike for a long time.

01:11:18.000 Not the HBO boxing champion though, right?

01:11:23.000 You're right.

01:11:24.000 That's true.

01:11:24.000 Yeah, that's true.

01:11:26.000 Yeah, that actually is a very good point.

01:11:27.000 There should be some sort of a sanctioning body. 0.96

01:11:30.000 Yeah.

01:11:31.000 I mean, they tried that.

01:11:32.000 Remember Whamma?

01:11:32.000 Remember when Fedor won the Whamma Championship?

01:11:35.000 I was there.

01:11:35.000 It was Affliction.

01:11:36.000 They tried to, like, kind of make a belt that was, yeah.

01:11:39.000 But it was Whamma. 0.80

01:11:41.000 Yeah.

01:11:42.000 Did you realize how that would sound?

01:11:44.000 Whamma!

01:11:45.000 Whamma!

01:11:45.000 So what happened was they tried to make a belt that was independent of any particular promotion.

01:11:49.000 Yes.

01:11:50.000 Meaning the Whamma belt would move when that fighter went somewhere else. 1.00

01:11:53.000 Yeah.

01:11:53.000 Just the way MMA works.

01:11:55.000 That was never going to fly.

01:11:56.000 But people are like, well, why not?

01:11:58.000 I mean, it does that in boxing.

01:11:59.000 Why not?

01:12:00.000 And there's no good answer.

01:12:01.000 Sorry.

01:12:02.000 Well, the answer is that the brands are much more protective.

01:12:05.000 What is this?

01:12:06.000 It's Donald Trump with the Wham-a-Belt.

01:12:07.000 Donald Trump with the Wham-a-Belt, yeah.

01:12:08.000 That is hilarious.

01:12:10.000 Yeah, he was there.

01:12:11.000 That's right.

01:12:12.000 He was there for Tim Sylvia versus Fedor.

01:12:14.000 Yeah.

01:12:15.000 That was the first Wham-a-Belt, right? 1.00

01:12:16.000 Yep.

01:12:17.000 Dude, that's hilarious.

01:12:19.000 And then Shinya Yoki won it beating somebody.

01:12:21.000 I forget who.

01:12:21.000 Who's got that Wama belt now?

01:12:23.000 Who's got that bitch? 1.00

01:12:24.000 Somebody has to Wama. 1.00

01:12:25.000 Yeah, you have to find out now.

01:12:26.000 Like, maybe we need to bring Wama back. 1.00

01:12:29.000 So whatever became of Fedor Emelianenko's whamma belt anyway?

01:12:33.000 Yes.

01:12:34.000 I do not know.

01:12:36.000 Yeah, there's things that you wonder, like a fighter's union, like, urgh, maybe.

01:12:41.000 Is that going to work?

01:12:41.000 You know, a sanctioning body outside of the UFC. It seems like the momentum is so strong in the fact of the UFC being the dominant organization.

01:12:49.000 It's like Q-tips.

01:12:51.000 You know, it's like that name like cotton swab.

01:12:53.000 Yeah.

01:12:53.000 Oh, but there's the Q-tips like the NFL. Can I have a facial tissue?

01:12:57.000 A what?

01:12:57.000 Kleenex.

01:12:58.000 Come on, bitch. 1.00

01:12:59.000 Well, all right. 1.00

01:13:00.000 So one of my pet peeves that I'll explain right now that falls in line right with that.

01:13:04.000 I hate with a passion.

01:13:07.000 I hate explaining to people what I do for a living.

01:13:09.000 Really? 0.99

01:13:09.000 I fucking hate it. 0.99

01:13:11.000 When I was with Bellator. 0.99

01:13:12.000 Why?

01:13:13.000 Oh, because you work for Bellator.

01:13:14.000 No, because what happened was, like, I'm in a cab, leaving LAX, and they go, and they go, uh, hey, uh, so, where are you coming from?

01:13:21.000 Oh, you know, Miami.

01:13:22.000 What are you doing?

01:13:23.000 Oh, God.

01:13:24.000 Work.

01:13:25.000 What kind of work do you do?

01:13:27.000 I'm a commentator for mixed martial arts fights.

01:13:30.000 And you just get a blank stare.

01:13:32.000 They just have no idea what you are talking about.

01:13:34.000 And then you go, you know where they put people in a cage and they fight.

01:13:38.000 And then they go, oh, UFC, you work for...

01:13:40.000 No, no, it's...

01:13:42.000 I've got to explain that MMA is a sport.

01:13:44.000 I've had this conversation 50 times.

01:13:49.000 Once again, if I say I need a cotton swab or I need to clean my ears with it, what?

01:13:54.000 I need a Q-tip.

01:13:55.000 Okay, I got it.

01:13:56.000 It's like that.

01:13:57.000 Donald Trump's coming up with the XFL. He's re-bringing it.

01:14:01.000 Re-bring it, Rich.

01:14:02.000 The XFL? Yep, he used to have the XFL. Yeah.

01:14:04.000 Now he's coming back with the XFL again.

01:14:07.000 Is that what we're going to call it?

01:14:08.000 Donald Trump.

01:14:09.000 It was Vince McMahon.

01:14:11.000 I'm kidding.

01:14:11.000 Vince McMahon, yeah.

01:14:12.000 Just joking around.

01:14:13.000 But didn't Donald Trump have something to do with the XFL? He did, right?

01:14:16.000 But now Vince McMahon's got it.

01:14:17.000 Vince McMahon, XFL. XFL return dream gets closer as WWE head Vince McMahon files to sell shares.

01:14:27.000 You ever had any doings with Vince McMahon?

01:14:29.000 No.

01:14:29.000 I'm a fan of that guy.

01:14:30.000 He's a character.

01:14:31.000 Dude.

01:14:32.000 Fun dude.

01:14:32.000 Unbelievable.

01:14:33.000 Jacked as fuck at 72. That's unreal. 1.00

01:14:36.000 He's on all them steroids. 1.00

01:14:38.000 70 years old, just fucking super jacked. 0.99

01:14:41.000 One of the camera guys in Bellator is a guy named Bubba Dean who worked for- That's a good name. 0.99

01:14:45.000 Yeah, great name.

01:14:46.000 He worked for Vince for like 20 years.

01:14:48.000 He was Vince's guy.

01:14:49.000 This guy's stories- You guys...

01:14:51.000 Come on, son.

01:14:52.000 He got all his teeth knocked out by Stone Cold Steve Austin while doing a shoot.

01:14:56.000 Vince did?

01:14:57.000 No, the camera guy.

01:14:58.000 Oh.

01:14:58.000 But he has these crazy stories of doing stuff, and he got his teeth knocked out and all that stuff, and all these crazy Vince stories.

01:15:03.000 It's nuts.

01:15:04.000 That means it's nuts.

01:15:05.000 Remember when Vince blew his quad out? 1.00

01:15:07.000 He, like, jumped into the ring and slammed his muscle on the edge of the ring accidentally and just literally separated his fucking quad muscle from the bone and just sat there on his ass and kept going? 1.00

01:15:19.000 Unbelievable. 1.00

01:15:19.000 I mean, just that alone, man. 1.00

01:15:22.000 Selling it like that?

01:15:23.000 I mean, he couldn't even walk, dude.

01:15:25.000 And he's selling the whole thing.

01:15:26.000 When you talk to people behind the scenes about WWE and what goes into it, it's really incredible.

01:15:32.000 Look how jacked he is.

01:15:33.000 Jesus Christ.

01:15:35.000 Jesus!

01:15:36.000 He's so jacked! 0.93

01:15:37.000 That's the most jacked 70-year-old of all time.

01:15:39.000 Ever seen.

01:15:40.000 Who's that fake Mark Coleman behind him?

01:15:42.000 Who's that dude?

01:15:43.000 That's the dude who gets him the juice.

01:15:45.000 Goes straight to Mexico.

01:15:46.000 That dude wears a prosthetic face and everything.

01:15:50.000 I think at that age it's like anti-aging.

01:15:54.000 It's legal anti-aging technology.

01:15:56.000 Oh, let's be honest.

01:15:57.000 He's on more than that.

01:15:58.000 Oh, yes.

01:15:59.000 He's on quite a bit.

01:16:01.000 That's not normal stuff.

01:16:02.000 He's going deep. 1.00

01:16:03.000 Fuck it. 1.00

01:16:04.000 You're like Stallone. 1.00

01:16:06.000 If you're going to do it, go hard.

01:16:07.000 I mean, at 70, it's like, why not?

01:16:09.000 I always tell everybody Stallone's my canary in a coal mine.

01:16:12.000 Really?

01:16:13.000 Yeah, I watch him.

01:16:14.000 You're just watching him.

01:16:15.000 I want to find out how much he's taking.

01:16:16.000 How much he's taking, bro?

01:16:17.000 How do you feel?

01:16:18.000 You're going to get road rage?

01:16:23.000 Well, one of the things that I like about Ryzen is that they can do whatever they want. 0.99

01:16:30.000 They don't give a fuck. 0.99

01:16:30.000 When you say, I don't give a fuck, I think of Ryzen. 0.99

01:16:33.000 She's 26 pounds overweight. 1.00

01:16:36.000 I think it was 27. Please, Japan, please, if I could beg of you anything, don't let Gabby Garcia beat up any more grandmas. 0.54

01:16:45.000 It's crazy.

01:16:47.000 They think it's funny that the biggest woman of all time beats up grandmas.

01:16:50.000 You know what?

01:16:51.000 No, I'm serious.

01:16:51.000 This is something I've talked to people about a lot.

01:16:53.000 Old school fans of sport.

01:16:55.000 Now that Pride's gone...

01:16:56.000 Pride forever and Pride never died.

01:16:58.000 I love Pride. 0.98

01:16:59.000 Pride had some matches that made you go, what the fuck is going on here? 1.00

01:17:03.000 They loved that shit. 1.00

01:17:05.000 It was for the Japanese audience. 1.00

01:17:07.000 Weight classes were suggestions.

01:17:10.000 They didn't test anybody.

01:17:14.000 Experience level meant absolutely nothing.

01:17:17.000 Remember Daijiro Matsui, of course?

01:17:18.000 Sure.

01:17:19.000 That guy, they loved watching that guy get beat up.

01:17:22.000 He fought everybody and got smashed. 0.99

01:17:23.000 They loved watching Daijiro Matsui get his fucking face beaten. 0.99

01:17:27.000 And they loved him. 1.00

01:17:28.000 They didn't like him.

01:17:30.000 There's something in the club. 1.00

01:17:31.000 They loved that shit. 1.00

01:17:32.000 And I'll tell people, I'll go, look, you know, Pride did have some great fights. 1.00

01:17:36.000 It also had some fights that were... 0.88

01:17:38.000 Crazy, ridiculous, unbelievable mismatches. 0.88

01:17:41.000 Yeah, the weight classes. 0.87

01:17:43.000 Their appreciation for a fighter's struggle was, if not more important than the fighter being victorious.

01:17:52.000 It's like the fighter being...

01:17:55.000 Just being valiant in the face of overwhelming odds was almost more enjoyable to them.

01:18:00.000 I liked Bushido more, because they just didn't pull that in Bushido.

01:18:03.000 They featured the lighter guys, and I don't remember in Bushido any fights that I was like, oh my god.

01:18:09.000 I think you're right, now that I'm remembering it.

01:18:11.000 I liked Bushido a bit more.

01:18:12.000 It was great.

01:18:13.000 They were all great.

01:18:14.000 That was when Quadros and...

01:18:16.000 Was it Quadros and Boss were the commentators?

01:18:20.000 It was either Mauro Quadros or Mauro Boss.

01:18:24.000 You know who I liked too?

01:18:25.000 They only had one or two shots at it.

01:18:28.000 That one guy who was a... 0.99

01:18:29.000 He was like some sort of a radio sports guy. 0.99

01:18:34.000 What the fuck is his name? 0.99

01:18:35.000 Mad Dog or something like that? 1.00

01:18:37.000 God damn it. 0.99

01:18:37.000 He only did it once. 0.99

01:18:39.000 There was one guy...

01:18:39.000 For Pride?

01:18:40.000 Yeah.

01:18:41.000 One guy who was the play-by-play guy with Boss Root and Once.

01:18:44.000 He's fun. 0.92

01:18:45.000 It's like kind of a silly guy, but a little out of his element. 0.96

01:18:49.000 A little out of his element. 0.98

01:18:51.000 Didn't necessarily...

01:18:52.000 It's like we were talking about earlier, like...

01:18:55.000 It's very difficult to find someone who's a play-by-play guy who is also a martial artist and also really, really invested in the sport.

01:19:03.000 Whereas a guy like you, a color guy, those guys, there's more chance that you're going to have a Technical understanding of the sport and also be able to be entertaining about it. 0.67

01:19:16.000 Yeah.

01:19:16.000 Whereas they just have to be entertaining about it and read the script.

01:19:19.000 They don't necessarily...

01:19:20.000 So it's super hard to find a guy who's as knowledgeable as you, but that is also a play-by-play guy.

01:19:25.000 It's not going to happen.

01:19:26.000 I always said Brian Stan should do it.

01:19:29.000 Play-by-play.

01:19:30.000 Play-by-play, and he could do either or, but it would be different because Brian Stan has, in my opinion, he has the voice and the personality and the delivery, the strength in the way he forms sentences in an entertaining but powerful way.

01:19:46.000 He could be a really good, believable play-by-play guy who's also a super legit martial artist, so he'd be the only guy that's doing it that way.

01:19:55.000 Well, the problem with having a...

01:19:58.000 A play-by-play guy who's too knowledgeable, they start doing both of them, sitting there.

01:20:03.000 And that's a problem when a guy's like a freak fan or thinks they know a lot about sport.

01:20:07.000 They start doing it.

01:20:08.000 They start doing color as they're doing play-by-play.

01:20:09.000 I think that's okay as long as it's...

01:20:13.000 As long as everybody is aware, not one person talks too much and everybody kind of lets everybody get in.

01:20:21.000 One of the things that I like to do when we have DC or when we have Dominic Cruz or whoever sits next to me sometimes, I like to ask them questions.

01:20:31.000 I want to give him a position.

01:20:34.000 What do you like to do here?

01:20:35.000 How do you approach this?

01:20:37.000 What's your thought process here?

01:20:40.000 Dominic was amazing too this weekend about breaking down clinch work and what someone's doing wrong or why this is a stagnant position for them.

01:20:50.000 I think if you had a guy who is a play-by-play guy, just as long as he knows, as long as everybody's cool with everybody's flow.

01:20:59.000 But that is one of the things that came in really well with me and Goldie.

01:21:03.000 Because we'd worked together for so long.

01:21:05.000 We were friends.

01:21:06.000 We knew how to slide things in.

01:21:08.000 We knew when to talk. 0.99

01:21:10.000 And sometimes we just talked over each other like some shit was happening. 0.98

01:21:13.000 But that's okay, too. 0.99

01:21:15.000 Yeah.

01:21:16.000 I've gone through four.

01:21:17.000 Four?

01:21:18.000 In the last year.

01:21:18.000 Wow.

01:21:19.000 A year and a half.

01:21:20.000 I did a few different guys back in the day. 1.00

01:21:22.000 Hey, what the fuck? 0.99

01:21:23.000 Cut that out of the show. 0.99

01:21:25.000 Yeah, we can edit that, right?

01:21:25.000 Cool.

01:21:26.000 I worked with a few different guys back in the day, but one of the guys that people forgot who was amazing was Bruce Beck.

01:21:33.000 Bruce Beck?

01:21:34.000 Yep.

01:21:34.000 I worked with him in boxing.

01:21:38.000 At PBC, yeah.

01:21:39.000 He gave me really good advice for what you were talking about.

01:21:42.000 It's difficult.

01:21:42.000 Post-fight interviews.

01:21:43.000 You know, he just gave me advice and, you know, having things to say and planning things out and, you know, how to, you know, how to word things. 0.95

01:21:52.000 You know, I didn't know what the fuck I was doing.

01:21:53.000 Matt Mitrione, when they hired him to do belter kickboxing, we were in Turin, Italy. 0.91

01:21:58.000 And Matt Matreon, I think he was with Bruce Beck, actually, at that time.

01:22:01.000 He hadn't flown out yet.

01:22:03.000 So Matt Matreon is there by himself, has never done color commentary before, and all the kickboxing fighters are showing up.

01:22:10.000 I've already done MMA. I wasn't doing kickboxing at the time.

01:22:13.000 I take Matt, and I go, okay, cool.

01:22:14.000 I'll walk you through this.

01:22:15.000 So I stayed and helped him interview all the kickboxing fighters.

01:22:18.000 And he's sitting there.

01:22:19.000 He's like, need some advice.

01:22:21.000 He'd never done this before.

01:22:21.000 And I said, the only advice I gave him was, don't say anything my mom knows.

01:22:26.000 If my mom's watching boxing and somebody gets punched in the face, I turn to my mom and go, that guy just got punched in the face.

01:22:31.000 My mom would go, yeah, I know that.

01:22:32.000 I can see that.

01:22:33.000 My mom knows when someone's getting punched in the face.

01:22:35.000 My mom doesn't know how the footwork set that right hand up. 1.00

01:22:38.000 That's your job.

01:22:39.000 It's not, that guy just got punched.

01:22:40.000 Oh, look at that. 0.99

01:22:41.000 It's not fucking radio. 0.99

01:22:43.000 They can see it. 0.99

01:22:44.000 Okay?

01:22:44.000 So your job as the expert is to...

01:22:47.000 The things that a layman or someone not experienced in sport doesn't quite know, like footwork accommodations and stuff like that.

01:22:53.000 And I said, stick to that.

01:22:54.000 I go, just stick to filling in the gaps that your expertise will help fill in.

01:22:59.000 Don't say everything in the world.

01:23:02.000 And when everybody talks, everybody loses.

01:23:05.000 That's how you have to think about it.

01:23:06.000 He knows when to talk, and I don't want to talk.

01:23:08.000 If we don't talk over each other, everybody loses.

01:23:10.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:23:11.000 When we talk over each other at the same time, we both sound like crap. 0.98

01:23:14.000 So just know when... 0.98

01:23:15.000 You'll get a feel for when to lay out and when to go in.

01:23:17.000 But my number one advice was...

01:23:20.000 Don't say anything that someone on the street could look at the TV and figure it out.

01:23:23.000 Someone at Buffalo Wild Wings can yell at the TV, why are you here?

01:23:28.000 We don't need an expert.

01:23:29.000 Anybody could say that.

01:23:30.000 What do you fill in?

01:23:31.000 It made him feel way better.

01:23:32.000 I said, hey, look, just fill in the stuff that your average person wouldn't know.

01:23:35.000 That's a very good game plan.

01:23:37.000 That's very wise.

01:23:38.000 Very versatile.

01:23:39.000 Yeah.

01:23:39.000 Use its power for good.

01:23:40.000 Yeah.

01:23:41.000 Yeah.

01:23:42.000 That's what I always tell guys.

01:23:42.000 Don't say what my mom knows.

01:23:44.000 So you get caught up in, and there's a right hand.

01:23:45.000 You don't have to call every, they can see that.

01:23:48.000 Now, the hard part is, the grappling, a lot of people are totally lost.

01:23:51.000 We have to fill in a lot more of that.

01:23:54.000 But you also sometimes want to react to certain punches that get landed, too.

01:23:57.000 You just got to know when to, when not to.

01:24:00.000 That develops, man.

01:24:01.000 You just get a feeling for that, you know?

01:24:03.000 Yeah, it's a weird thing that you're thinking of it, at least I am when I'm doing it, also as like, it's a product.

01:24:09.000 Like, you're contributing to a product.

01:24:11.000 You're adding to it with sound and with description and with the entertainment value of the way you distribute your words, you know?

01:24:18.000 A good broadcaster knows they're not tuning in for us.

01:24:22.000 Yeah.

01:24:23.000 We can make it better.

01:24:23.000 We certainly can.

01:24:24.000 We certainly can.

01:24:26.000 We're there to get out of our own way.

01:24:27.000 Exactly.

01:24:28.000 We don't want to fuck it up.

01:24:29.000 100%. 0.54

01:24:30.000 We can also detract from a broadcast.

01:24:31.000 You've got to be careful about it.

01:24:33.000 Detracting is the worst.

01:24:34.000 I mean, I think probably we've both been guilty of that at some point.

01:24:37.000 Oh, yeah.

01:24:38.000 At any moment.

01:24:38.000 You can't.

01:24:39.000 You're free-balling.

01:24:41.000 You're doing a live thing.

01:24:44.000 When you're anticipating things happening, and they're happening, or something's different than you thought was going to happen, and you're trying to put the words to it correctly, in the moment, live on TV... It doesn't always work out.

01:24:58.000 No, it doesn't.

01:24:59.000 I mean, it works out a lot.

01:25:00.000 And I beat myself up so bad, man.

01:25:02.000 When I make a mistake, man, I'm mad.

01:25:04.000 Me too. 0.99

01:25:04.000 Fucking until the next show. 0.99

01:25:06.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:25:06.000 But, and then I'll look sometimes and I'm like, nobody noticed it. 0.99

01:25:09.000 I'm the one that's mad at myself.

01:25:11.000 But that's why you're really good.

01:25:12.000 Oh, man.

01:25:13.000 That's why you're really good. 0.99

01:25:14.000 I mean, anybody who is really good at anything, you get that way because fucking up on it just seems horrible. 0.99

01:25:22.000 You know, it just really messes with your head. 0.99

01:25:24.000 Yeah. 0.95

01:25:25.000 I've just come to accept that weird feeling, you know, and use it and go, all right, whatever that shit feeling is where I flubbed that word or forgot that guy's name or whatever it is, and I conflated the two people, whatever it is. 0.81

01:25:38.000 Get over it. 0.97

01:25:38.000 Keep moving. 0.97

01:25:39.000 Just do your best.

01:25:40.000 And that feeling...

01:25:42.000 Because of the fact that I can't just blow it off. 0.99

01:25:45.000 I can't just be like, who gives a shit? 0.99

01:25:47.000 I don't have that in me, man. 1.00

01:25:48.000 Yeah, I do not.

01:25:49.000 But that's why I try hard.

01:25:50.000 And that's why with every broadcast, when I get through it and it's good, I'm like, okay.

01:25:56.000 We did it.

01:25:57.000 I still get that juice, man.

01:25:59.000 Sure.

01:26:00.000 Every time.

01:26:02.000 And it's funny.

01:26:02.000 I'm known for...

01:26:04.000 Disappearing after a show, I'm known for that.

01:26:07.000 For, like, the show's done, and everybody goes, well, A, I don't drink, so I'm out of that loop completely, but...

01:26:13.000 What about your heroin use?

01:26:14.000 You know, that's a home thing.

01:26:16.000 I'm not gonna bring it on a plane.

01:26:18.000 Come on, you're a rookie.

01:26:19.000 Anyway, so, so, anyway, I'm known for disappearing after a show, because a show just takes a lot out of me.

01:26:27.000 Like, everybody else is at the bar doing whatever, and I go to my room and I just download.

01:26:31.000 Dude, I'm fucking starving after shows. 0.92

01:26:34.000 Or that. 0.97

01:26:35.000 And the problem is that a lot of times it's, you know, when I'm out in Backerville or something, or I'm out in like Mulvane, Kansas, and you're at a smoky casino and there's one place to eat, and a fight just let out, and you're like, oh my god.

01:26:49.000 You know, it's like a real decision I have to make a lot of times is, am I too hungry to sleep or am I too tired to eat?

01:26:56.000 Which one of those am I? I almost always choose sleep if I have to.

01:27:00.000 I almost always choose sleep.

01:27:01.000 I almost always choose sleep.

01:27:02.000 But yeah, I just disappear.

01:27:03.000 I just go to my hotel.

01:27:04.000 Because it's hard.

01:27:05.000 It just takes a lot out of you.

01:27:06.000 I bring stuff with me anyway.

01:27:07.000 I always bring protein bars.

01:27:08.000 I bring canned oysters.

01:27:10.000 I bring different things that I can eat that I know are healthy.

01:27:13.000 I bring like a bunch of cans of canned oysters.

01:27:16.000 Because it's like they're soaked in olive oil.

01:27:18.000 Super healthy.

01:27:19.000 Bang a few cans of those out.

01:27:21.000 Go to sleep.

01:27:21.000 What is your family talking?

01:27:22.000 What's that?

01:27:23.000 What is your family talking?

01:27:24.000 Oh, nationality. 0.82

01:27:26.000 Mostly Italian, a little bit of Irish.

01:27:27.000 My family's Greek.

01:27:28.000 My mom's Greek.

01:27:29.000 Ah, okay.

01:27:30.000 Cool.

01:27:30.000 The rest are German-Irish, so yeah.

01:27:32.000 Olive oil's a big part of the diet. 1.00

01:27:33.000 Olive oil's the shit. 1.00

01:27:34.000 That is one of the best fucking things your body can take in. 1.00

01:27:37.000 Olive oil's fantastic, and what a pain in the dick it is to make. 0.99

01:27:40.000 Think about all the stuff they had to go through. 0.91

01:27:42.000 Like, when you see, I had an olive tree in my yard, and the olives would fall down. 0.99

01:27:46.000 These nasty little fucked up olives. 0.97

01:27:48.000 I'm like, this is an olive? 0.99

01:27:49.000 And they're like, oh yeah, there's a whole process to turn that into an olive you eat.

01:27:52.000 I'm like, what?

01:27:53.000 Yeah.

01:27:53.000 I thought an olive came from a tree like an olive.

01:27:56.000 You could just pick it like one of those green ones.

01:27:58.000 No.

01:27:59.000 I grew up in the San Joaquin Valley.

01:28:00.000 They had the whole thing set up there, man, until I was nine years old.

01:28:03.000 A lot of olive stuff out there.

01:28:05.000 Yeah, a buddy of mine makes olive oil in his yard.

01:28:08.000 He's got a shit ton of olive trees in his yard, and he set this whole thing up with the hopes of eventually making his own olive oil from his own yard.

01:28:20.000 Okay, good luck, dude. 1.00

01:28:21.000 You can buy it in a store, you fuck. 1.00

01:28:22.000 It's much easier to buy it in a store. 1.00

01:28:25.000 But big part of the diet growing up.

01:28:26.000 Mom cooks a lot, man.

01:28:27.000 It's phenomenal for you, man.

01:28:29.000 You know what's funny?

01:28:29.000 My mom had cooked for the Bellator crew before.

01:28:32.000 Really?

01:28:32.000 They'd come over to her house and she cooked for like 25 people.

01:28:35.000 The whole crew?

01:28:35.000 25 people.

01:28:36.000 Goddamn. 1.00

01:28:37.000 She's like a caterer almost. 1.00

01:28:38.000 She loves that shit. 1.00

01:28:39.000 Wow. 1.00

01:28:39.000 She loves that shit. 1.00

01:28:40.000 Anyway, so literally, I left Bellator and literally one of the people went, Your mom will still cook for us, right? 1.00

01:28:51.000 I was like, dude, any time, like, we want mom in the divorce.

01:28:54.000 And I was like, okay, cool.

01:28:55.000 Mom's okay with that.

01:28:56.000 Mom loves everyone in Bellator crew and they love my mother.

01:28:58.000 So it was kind of funny.

01:28:59.000 She had them all over for dinner.

01:29:00.000 And so they were really, really upset about my mom.

01:29:04.000 I hope Bellator makes it.

01:29:07.000 And I say that with all due sincerity.

01:29:08.000 Me too.

01:29:09.000 100%.

01:29:09.000 Now that we're both not with Bellator.

01:29:11.000 100%.

01:29:11.000 Yeah.

01:29:12.000 Now that we're both not with Bellator.

01:29:13.000 We can talk about this.

01:29:13.000 Yeah.

01:29:14.000 It's like I always said this before.

01:29:16.000 Maybe they're in competition with UFC, the corporate entity.

01:29:19.000 But in my opinion, it was never that they were in competition with me.

01:29:23.000 My thoughts are that they're valuable, that it's important, and that the more competition you have, the better.

01:29:28.000 And then I also felt like having a guy like you out there who's doing commentary, who's kicking ass, makes me better. 0.75

01:29:33.000 I know that you're really good at it. 0.60

01:29:35.000 I listen to you very sharp.

01:29:37.000 I listen to people, and I'm sure you're the same way, that they're uncomfortable or clunky doing commentary, and it makes for an awkward experience for you watching it.

01:29:45.000 Yeah, but we listen to it a lot.

01:29:46.000 I mean, I really listen with that ear, because that's our job.

01:29:48.000 Sure.

01:29:49.000 You know, you really listen with that ear, and you're probably overly critical.

01:29:52.000 We are, at least, when we're listening to our peers.

01:29:55.000 And yeah, I do the same thing.

01:29:57.000 Bad commentary can really...

01:29:59.000 It's like a producer can hear things where you go, I don't even hear that.

01:30:03.000 Sure.

01:30:04.000 Something's a little off and just bugs them.

01:30:05.000 Yeah, it's just clunky.

01:30:07.000 You know, especially for someone who's called and seen as many fights as you have, your idea of what's clunky is like the data chunking that you're doing is very different.

01:30:16.000 It's very much more high level than the average person.

01:30:18.000 There's just not a lot of people doing it, which is weird.

01:30:20.000 Ten years have been.

01:30:21.000 Yeah.

01:30:22.000 No, more than ten.

01:30:24.000 When did Belgium start?

01:30:25.000 No, I was doing M1 before that.

01:30:27.000 And I did Affliction too.

01:30:29.000 Those were both before Bellator.

01:30:30.000 Was Jason Chambers the first Bellator guy?

01:30:31.000 For the first year, he was the Bellator guy.

01:30:33.000 When it was on ESPN Deportes.

01:30:35.000 And it was just a web series in English.

01:30:38.000 So you could just see it on the website in English.

01:30:40.000 It was Anik and Jason Chambers. 0.99

01:30:41.000 Holy shit. 1.00

01:30:42.000 That's crazy. 0.99

01:30:44.000 Jason and I have lived weirdly parallel lives.

01:30:47.000 Yeah, you guys both had that show.

01:30:48.000 We both had that show.

01:30:50.000 We fought each other.

01:30:50.000 He was my last professional fight.

01:30:52.000 He was the guy at Bellator before I was there.

01:30:55.000 It's great.

01:30:56.000 Yeah, it's really weird.

01:30:56.000 Yeah.

01:30:57.000 It's really strange.

01:30:57.000 Yeah, he was...

01:30:58.000 You were on...

01:30:59.000 What show was he?

01:31:00.000 I was on Fight Quest.

01:31:01.000 He was on Human Weapon.

01:31:02.000 You were on Fight Quest.

01:31:02.000 Yeah.

01:31:03.000 So, funny story.

01:31:04.000 When I first got the call about Fight Quest, they said...

01:31:07.000 So, to go back a little bit further, I fought Jason in my last pro fight, and remember Jamie Walsh?

01:31:14.000 Yeah, sure.

01:31:15.000 He was the promoter.

01:31:15.000 Very well.

01:31:16.000 He used to train me.

01:31:16.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:31:17.000 He used to be my personal trainer.

01:31:18.000 Yeah.

01:31:18.000 He taught me about kettlebells, that...

01:31:21.000 Crazy Englishman.

01:31:22.000 He's one of John Jock's black belts too. 0.95

01:31:23.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:31:24.000 Great grappler.

01:31:25.000 I grappled against him twice.

01:31:28.000 Anyway, so I was going to fight Jason at his promotion called Pangea, and he told me all about this show he was going on.

01:31:34.000 He goes, man, if you beat this guy, man, he's going to be bad.

01:31:36.000 It's going to be great for you.

01:31:37.000 And I was like, and he described the show to me.

01:31:39.000 You travel around and you do different martial arts.

01:31:41.000 I was like, man, that's a great idea.

01:31:43.000 And then...

01:31:45.000 I beat Jason with a reverse heel hook, and you know how dangerous those are.

01:31:48.000 And Jason really held out, and it tore pretty good.

01:31:52.000 And anyway, a couple days later, I get a call from, I forget who, and they said, yeah, they're doing this show, and give this producer a call in New York.

01:32:04.000 I said, okay.

01:32:05.000 I called the producer, and she described the show, and she described the exact same show.

01:32:09.000 And I went... 0.99

01:32:11.000 Oh fuck, I hurt him and they're looking for a replacement. 1.00

01:32:14.000 And I felt... 1.00

01:32:15.000 There's an unwritten rule in MMA that you can beat somebody up and do whatever.

01:32:20.000 You don't take food out of somebody else's mouth.

01:32:23.000 You don't want to hurt somebody and they can't fight for a year. 0.99

01:32:25.000 It sucks. 0.86

01:32:25.000 You know what I mean? 0.86

01:32:26.000 We all fight, but when it's over, it's over.

01:32:28.000 You don't want to like...

01:32:30.000 Injure somebody where they can't make a living.

01:32:32.000 That was also back in the day when heel hooks were like sort of shunned in jujitsu a little bit.

01:32:37.000 Yeah, but this was an MMA fight.

01:32:38.000 I know, but I mean, there was a stigma to heel hooks.

01:32:41.000 There still was, yeah.

01:32:42.000 But that's what I used, and I thought I injured him, and they were looking for a replacement.

01:32:47.000 I was just like, oh my god.

01:32:48.000 So it was like one of those deep impact Armageddon things.

01:32:51.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:32:53.000 100%.

01:32:53.000 And so then I found out, and then I realized they were on different shows, and it was so funny because people have said since then, That I was chosen because they beat Jason.

01:33:00.000 That's their assumption, which makes sense, but they had no idea.

01:33:04.000 The producers of the show, once I got the gig and we're talking, they said, yeah, there's another show on History Channel.

01:33:07.000 I went, yeah, I fought that guy.

01:33:09.000 And they looked at me and they went, what?

01:33:10.000 They go, yeah, I fought him like a month ago. 0.99

01:33:13.000 They literally, I'm serious, had no fucking clue. 0.99

01:33:15.000 They had no idea. 0.98

01:33:16.000 It's just so weird that they both came out at exactly the same time.

01:33:19.000 Yeah, they were out a few months before me.

01:33:21.000 There hasn't been one of those shows since.

01:33:22.000 There hasn't been one before.

01:33:24.000 Sorry.

01:33:25.000 What kind of weird shenanigans were going on back then?

01:33:27.000 I didn't produce the thing, so I don't know where it came from.

01:33:29.000 I have no idea.

01:33:30.000 I'm not blaming you.

01:33:31.000 It wasn't me.

01:33:32.000 I didn't go, hey, I could take this idea.

01:33:34.000 But it's just weird to me that those shows become interesting and popular, and then they stop being.

01:33:39.000 It's like someone tries it out, and they go, this is it.

01:33:41.000 And the two companies are willing to invest it, and two different channels are showing it.

01:33:44.000 Remember, this is a way back one.

01:33:47.000 In one summer, it was The Abyss, Deep Space Nine, and Leviathan were all these underwater horror movies that came out in the same summer.

01:33:55.000 Weird.

01:33:56.000 It's just, I don't know why.

01:33:57.000 Just like we were seeing with the asteroid movies, Deep Impact and Armageddon.

01:34:02.000 Both of them came out exactly the same time.

01:34:04.000 That was weird.

01:34:05.000 It was really strange. 1.00

01:34:06.000 Yes, fucking Hollywood's bizarre like that. 1.00

01:34:08.000 It is. 1.00

01:34:08.000 You find out, like, what did... 1.00

01:34:10.000 I almost don't want to know. 0.99

01:34:11.000 I don't want to know what kind of weird shenanigans where all three of you fuckheads are coming up with underwater horror movies. 0.99

01:34:18.000 Yeah, what's going on? 0.99

01:34:19.000 I have no idea.

01:34:20.000 It's like they find out that someone's doing it, so they get a head on and they try to release it first.

01:34:24.000 There were two Battle of the Sexes movies.

01:34:26.000 Will Ferrell was supposed to play Bobby Riggs in a Battle of the Sexes tennis movie.

01:34:31.000 When Steve Carell was doing the other one?

01:34:33.000 Yeah, and then they found out Steve Carell was doing one and they canned it.

01:34:37.000 That match happened in the 70s.

01:34:41.000 Yeah, that was the Billie Jean King?

01:34:42.000 Billie Jean King.

01:34:43.000 Wow, that's crazy.

01:34:44.000 Went to my high school.

01:34:45.000 Strangely enough.

01:34:46.000 Powerful.

01:34:47.000 Powerful Billie Jean.

01:34:48.000 Anyway, but...

01:34:50.000 40 years later, they make a movie and two studios want to do it at the same time? 0.96

01:34:54.000 It's fucking weird. 0.94

01:34:54.000 And both with comedians, which is really weird. 0.94

01:34:57.000 Oh, Bobby Riggs was that guy. 0.93

01:34:59.000 Steve Carell is so goddamn good. 0.96

01:35:02.000 He just knocked it out of the park. 0.99

01:35:03.000 He was great playing that fucking creepy DuPont guy, too. 0.99

01:35:06.000 Dude, Johnny DuPont. 0.99

01:35:07.000 Yeah.

01:35:08.000 I remember when Dave Schultz got killed.

01:35:11.000 What a huge deal that was.

01:35:12.000 But it was just...

01:35:13.000 He was so creepy playing him in the movie.

01:35:16.000 It's like you bought it.

01:35:17.000 You bought that he's a weird guy wrestling with these guys.

01:35:20.000 He nailed it. 1.00

01:35:20.000 Teaching them and shit. 1.00

01:35:22.000 And they're just like letting them do it. 0.98

01:35:24.000 Weird.

01:35:25.000 Weird, weird, weird.

01:35:27.000 Have you seen the documentary about it?

01:35:28.000 That shows all the real footage and everything?

01:35:30.000 I've seen some of the real footage, but I don't think I saw the documentary.

01:35:34.000 There's one, 30 of 30 to 1, and then there's one on Netflix.

01:35:36.000 And I've seen both of them.

01:35:37.000 One is more focused on Mark Schultz.

01:35:39.000 The other one is the other story. 1.00

01:35:40.000 And, man, it's, once again, it's fucking. 0.99

01:35:43.000 Really out there. 0.99

01:35:44.000 Yeah.

01:35:45.000 Wrestlers just had no outlet to make money back then.

01:35:47.000 And this billionaire says, I'll put you up and make this amazing team, and they jump on it.

01:35:51.000 And isn't it kind of stunning that wrestling never had a real actual professional, not that there's anything wrong with pro wrestling, but pro wrestling obviously is a show.

01:35:59.000 There's never been like, you think about how many people love wrestling, how many wrestling fans there are, how many people wrestle in high school and college, and how many people like to watch it in the Olympics.

01:36:08.000 It was always a big deal.

01:36:10.000 Like, why didn't they ever figure out a way to make some sort of professional venue out of it?

01:36:14.000 Remember they did for a little while?

01:36:15.000 Remember Real Pro Wrestling, remember that?

01:36:16.000 That's right.

01:36:16.000 Yeah, they tried that.

01:36:17.000 And, you know, it's funny.

01:36:21.000 I used to teach.

01:36:22.000 I used to be a teacher.

01:36:22.000 That's what I did before I was fighting.

01:36:24.000 What did you teach?

01:36:25.000 The longest I ever taught was, because I worked for Long Beach Unified School District.

01:36:28.000 I did a bunch of stuff for them.

01:36:29.000 So sometimes I would teach, sometimes I'd do this testing stuff.

01:36:32.000 The longest I ever taught was 7th grade.

01:36:34.000 Math.

01:36:35.000 Which, if there is a hell, that is where it is.

01:36:39.000 7th grade math, algebra.

01:36:40.000 I only taught that.

01:36:43.000 My mom's a teacher.

01:36:44.000 And the girl, the lady two rooms down from her, got sick or had some kind of breakdown.

01:36:50.000 And mom went, can you please come in and teach for a year? 0.99

01:36:53.000 And I went, okay, cool, because I made it easier on her.

01:36:54.000 I said, all right, fine.

01:36:55.000 So I ended up teaching.

01:36:56.000 So what did you have to have?

01:36:57.000 A degree and some sort of certification?

01:36:58.000 A degree and a certification, yeah.

01:36:59.000 And I had both of those.

01:37:01.000 So you'd already planned on teaching, or you had it as a possible side gig?

01:37:05.000 I had it as a possible side gig.

01:37:06.000 It was always what I was doing kind of while I was fighting.

01:37:10.000 But anyway, I had a teacher tell me one time, he said, If there's a sign at the zoo that says, please don't throw tangerines at the elephants, it may not make any sense to you.

01:37:21.000 All it means is one time somebody threw a tangerine at an elephant, something really bad happened.

01:37:26.000 And I thought about that a lot when...

01:37:30.000 Whenever you think about, you know, why is pro wrestling pro wrestling?

01:37:33.000 Well, there was a time when it was real, and it was too boring, so they started scripting the endings to it, and so it became pro wrestling.

01:37:39.000 There were catch wrestling matches, and they lasted three hours.

01:37:44.000 It was like the old Gracie fights.

01:37:45.000 They just lasted too long.

01:37:48.000 Guys couldn't catch each other, and so they started scripting the innings.

01:37:51.000 Real pro wrestling was an effort to make it work, and if it had made money, it'd still be around.

01:37:55.000 So it sucks, and I wish wrestlers even had more of an outlet than MMA. And wrestling itself has gotten bigger in terms of...

01:38:02.000 I went to my old high school to watch a duel meet, and back when I was there, we had one varsity team and half a JV team.

01:38:08.000 They had varsity, JV, fresh soft, and a women's team.

01:38:11.000 Wow, a women's team. 0.80

01:38:12.000 A full women's team.

01:38:15.000 I have 14 weight classes right now.

01:38:18.000 You couldn't get anywhere near that when I was in school.

01:38:20.000 It just wasn't that popular.

01:38:21.000 Now, MMA has made it huge.

01:38:24.000 Wrestling now, people really follow a lot.

01:38:26.000 You had to be a real geek to follow college wrestling. 0.75

01:38:29.000 Well, when you see a guy like Nurmagomedov smash Edson Barboza using essentially just wrestling and vicious ground and pound, you realize like, okay, that is so fucking important to have.

01:38:40.000 It is the cornerstone, or rather the foundation of MMA. And I think that fight really highlighted it.

01:38:47.000 It really showed the dominant, super dominant wrestler over the dominant striker.

01:38:52.000 If the dominant wrestler can get a hold of the dominant striker, Unless the striker's close! 0.55

01:38:58.000 Like, that's one of the things that was most impressive about Mirko, was that when Mirko started fighting for pride, his takedown defense got really good really quick.

01:39:08.000 Yeah.

01:39:08.000 You know what I mean?

01:39:09.000 He fought some fucking tough guys, but figured out a way to keep the fight standing a lot. 0.98

01:39:14.000 What I liked about him so much when you watch him is not only was he a southpaw, he was so good with the range of his footwork that he never lost his distance while throwing. 0.98

01:39:23.000 He was always really good at picking you apart from long range.

01:39:25.000 So you were shooting from outside.

01:39:27.000 You were shooting from way far back.

01:39:28.000 He could see it coming.

01:39:29.000 His footwork set up his takedown defense so well.

01:39:32.000 That dude was amazing.

01:39:33.000 Yeah, he also was very powerful.

01:39:36.000 So his explosion was a big part of his fight style when he was a kickboxer.

01:39:40.000 So unlike maybe Peter Ertz or Ernesto Hust, who had more of a methodical, technical style of striking, Krokop would throw those one big shots all the time.

01:39:51.000 And that really works well in MMA. And he was able to use that explosion, that fucking left high kick, and the one to the body that he hit Heath Herring with.

01:40:00.000 You remember that shot? 0.99

01:40:01.000 Oh, just collapsed him.

01:40:02.000 Well, you see Heath Haring's body just wrapped around Crow Cop's leg. 0.99

01:40:06.000 Like, whoa! 0.99

01:40:07.000 You just realize the amount of power in that fucking kick, and Haring's taking it right on the ribcage. 1.00

01:40:12.000 The worst. 0.99

01:40:13.000 Now, the thing to me is, when you watch what I tell people, I said...

01:40:19.000 When you watch Chuck Liddell's three fights against Randy, the third one against Randy, Randy is just shook by that power.

01:40:26.000 He's felt it before.

01:40:27.000 And that kind of, you know, bull in a china shop, Greco style, to get inside, it's not there. 0.93

01:40:32.000 He's just thinking about that power shot the whole time.

01:40:35.000 And that's what a power striker does against a wrestler. 1.00

01:40:37.000 He gives you that kind of barrier of, to take me down, you've got to get through here. 0.99

01:40:41.000 And here is fucking dangerous. 0.96

01:40:43.000 And I think, Khabib, what he knew is, long range is dangerous against Edson. 0.99

01:40:47.000 So if I keep moving forward, I keep putting pressure on him and take away that spinning range, he's not going to knock me out with his hands.

01:40:53.000 And that's why he was pushing forward so incredibly hard as he didn't worry about that second wall.

01:40:58.000 It really didn't concern him.

01:40:59.000 Yeah, and Chuck would make you fight him, because Chuck was a very good wrestler himself. 0.95

01:41:05.000 The thing that made Chuck so unique is that Chuck was a striker, you know, Hackleman trained, Kempo, karate, all that stuff, in a traditional sense, but also had very good boxing skills and serious fucking power in his hands and kicks.

01:41:18.000 But he also knew how to wrestle, so good luck taking him down. 0.73

01:41:21.000 So now you're forced to stand up with this long, powerful striker who has an iron chin and just had this psychotic desire to move forward and land bombs.

01:41:32.000 Yeah, he wrestled it slow.

01:41:34.000 I'm probably slow if I remember correctly.

01:41:36.000 And that's where Hackleman's place is still up there in San Luis Obispo.

01:41:39.000 He was something interesting because he was one of the very first wrestlers that was a feared striker.

01:41:45.000 Yeah.

01:41:45.000 So he had the wrestling skills, great taketown defense, very good at getting back up off the ground when he got down to the ground, but also destroyer on his feet.

01:41:53.000 Yeah.

01:41:54.000 So that's the kind of guy that we're going to need to test Khabib.

01:41:57.000 We're going to need a guy who can keep the fight standing, who can test Khabib on the feet, some guy who's going to be able to stuff some of those takedowns.

01:42:04.000 Those guys don't come around often.

01:42:06.000 Well, not with him.

01:42:07.000 When you see what he did to RDA, he ragdolled Dos Anjos, which is crazy. 0.98

01:42:11.000 I mean, I do not know.

01:42:13.000 There's a timeline of Dos Anjos' dominance, right?

01:42:16.000 That's a strong 70. Dos Anjos is a strong 70. But this was a different time in Dos Anjos' training, and I think Dos Anjos made some giant leaps when he started doing strength and conditioning with Nick Curzon.

01:42:27.000 He just had way more output inside the cage, but...

01:42:33.000 The crazy thing was that Dos Anjos is one of the best grapplers in the division.

01:42:38.000 And you see what he was able to do with Neil Magny.

01:42:41.000 Leg kicks Neil Magny, gets him to the ground, smushes him. 0.99

01:42:43.000 You know, I mean, his fucking ground game is really legit. 0.99

01:42:47.000 So to see him get ragdolled by Khabib, you're like, how's he doing that to RDA, you know? 0.99

01:42:54.000 It's nuts.

01:42:55.000 At 55!

01:42:56.000 Yeah.

01:42:57.000 Yeah.

01:42:58.000 He's something special.

01:42:59.000 So it's like, who is left at 55? 0.88

01:43:02.000 Especially now that Dos Anjos has moved on successfully to 170. Who the fuck has left that's going to be able to keep the fight standing? 0.95

01:43:10.000 You know? 0.90

01:43:10.000 That's the tough part. 0.90

01:43:11.000 I don't think there are many answers.

01:43:13.000 I really don't know.

01:43:13.000 I don't know either, man.

01:43:14.000 I think they've got to put together the Ferguson fight pretty quickly.

01:43:18.000 That's the fight.

01:43:19.000 It's a big fight.

01:43:19.000 That's the fight.

01:43:20.000 That's the fight.

01:43:21.000 The question is, is it going to be for the title?

01:43:23.000 Is it going to be Ferguson and Conor get stripped and Ferguson and Khabib fight for the undisputed title?

01:43:30.000 Because they'll just make Ferguson the undisputed champion if Conor gets stripped, which I don't think is a bad thing.

01:43:35.000 No. 0.98

01:43:36.000 Look, Conor's still fucking Conor. 0.99

01:43:38.000 If Conor comes back a year from now, he's still Conor. 0.99

01:43:41.000 Doesn't matter.

01:43:41.000 He's still fighting probably for the title right away.

01:43:44.000 Everybody's going to want it.

01:43:45.000 Everybody's going to want the pay-per-view money that comes with it.

01:43:48.000 Hop on board.

01:43:49.000 But Tony versus Khabib is very interesting.

01:43:53.000 Yeah.

01:43:55.000 Very interesting.

01:43:56.000 Khabib is a guy you have to get his respect.

01:43:58.000 Yeah.

01:43:59.000 You have to give him reason to back up.

01:44:00.000 Tony knows how to fight off his back.

01:44:02.000 Very good.

01:44:02.000 Yeah.

01:44:03.000 Very dangerous off his back.

01:44:04.000 Not just dangerous off his back in terms of submissions, but very good defensively off his back.

01:44:09.000 You know, he's got really good composure.

01:44:11.000 Very good wrestler. 1.00

01:44:12.000 His chokes are fucking nasty, man. 0.99

01:44:14.000 He catches chokes from weird angles. 1.00

01:44:15.000 You know, he's good at sweeping you.

01:44:18.000 He's legit.

01:44:19.000 He's a legit champ, but that's the fight.

01:44:21.000 Yep, that's the fight.

01:44:21.000 I mean, anything else is the fans going to be calling for it could be.

01:44:25.000 Yeah, it's just what do you do, though?

01:44:27.000 Like, what do you do and how do you do it?

01:44:29.000 Do you strip Conor?

01:44:30.000 That's always the question, man. 1.00

01:44:31.000 Because if Conor's like, fuck it, I want to fight Tony in Dublin! 0.99

01:44:36.000 If he decides to come back and fight Tony and then the winner fights Khabib in Russia, the world explodes. 0.99

01:44:43.000 That'd be huge!

01:44:44.000 That'd be the biggest thing in the world.

01:44:44.000 That'd be fantastic.

01:44:45.000 The winner fights Khabib in Russia for the undisputed title.

01:44:48.000 You ever call a fight in Russia?

01:44:49.000 No, but Khabib's gonna ride a bear out to the cage. 0.95

01:44:52.000 Gangster, man. 0.81

01:44:53.000 Put a cage over the bear's face. 0.99

01:44:54.000 It's literally gangster.

01:44:54.000 It's a mobbed up place.

01:44:56.000 Is it?

01:44:57.000 That's fun there, yeah.

01:44:58.000 How many times did you...

01:44:59.000 I think four?

01:45:00.000 For Bellator?

01:45:01.000 No, when I was with M1, they were running out of Russia.

01:45:03.000 Oh, that's right.

01:45:04.000 That's right.

01:45:05.000 So I did St. Petersburg, and then I did...

01:45:07.000 Did you enjoy it?

01:45:08.000 Oh, man, I had a great time.

01:45:09.000 Yeah?

01:45:10.000 Yeah.

01:45:10.000 How's the food over there?

01:45:11.000 Food's good.

01:45:12.000 I don't like the way you said good.

01:45:14.000 No, the food's good.

01:45:15.000 The food's good.

01:45:15.000 It's not like you're not known for it.

01:45:17.000 All right, so I got to tell a story.

01:45:18.000 We're on this ship in the Neva River, and it's owned by one of the guys who runs M1. And...

01:45:26.000 Yeah, so we're on this ship in the Neva River, and it's got a restaurant on it.

01:45:29.000 And we're sitting there, and Sean Wheelock, my old broadcast partner, is very persnicky about his food.

01:45:34.000 He's persnicky about a lot of stuff.

01:45:36.000 And we're sitting there with our boss and everything, and the guy who runs this ship, this big heavy in St. Petersburg, who's affiliated with M1, serves us this borscht, which is like a beet stew, basically.

01:45:49.000 And he goes, man, we're really proud of our borscht.

01:45:50.000 It's a big deal here.

01:45:52.000 And...

01:45:53.000 Oh, we hope you enjoy it.

01:45:54.000 It's a point of honor for us.

01:45:56.000 And he walks away, and Wheelock looks at the bowl and goes, I'm not eating this.

01:46:01.000 I don't like it. 0.99

01:46:02.000 And our boss goes, you will fucking eat it right now. 1.00

01:46:05.000 Like a seven-year-old, like, you won't eat this right now. 1.00

01:46:06.000 You won't fucking eat it. 0.99

01:46:07.000 And he's like, no, I'm not eating it. 0.99

01:46:09.000 Like, folded his arms, like, I'm not eating it.

01:46:10.000 No way.

01:46:11.000 No, I eat so fast. 0.98

01:46:12.000 White people. 0.96

01:46:13.000 White people. 0.99

01:46:13.000 I eat so fast that I already ate it. 0.99

01:46:16.000 I like borscht, so I just ate it.

01:46:18.000 And I set my thing down. 0.98

01:46:19.000 The guy who was all proud of his borscht Turns around and is heading back to us and my boss looks at me and goes, points to Sean's food and I grabbed it and I drank an entire bowl of that shit and threw it down before the guy came back. 0.87

01:46:33.000 And he saw it and said, oh, thank you so much. 0.97

01:46:35.000 Sean was just refusing to touch it.

01:46:39.000 Persnickety is a nice word.

01:46:40.000 Persnickety.

01:46:40.000 I like how you use that.

01:46:41.000 He's very selective about it.

01:46:43.000 But it's a nice way.

01:46:44.000 Nobody can get mad.

01:46:45.000 Yeah, it wasn't like he was like...

01:46:46.000 Yeah, he called something persnickety. 1.00

01:46:49.000 Yeah, you're not saying they're a complaining bitch. 1.00

01:46:52.000 No. 1.00

01:46:53.000 I wouldn't say that.

01:46:55.000 I didn't think you would.

01:46:56.000 Would not.

01:46:57.000 Persnickety.

01:46:57.000 I understand.

01:46:58.000 No, I didn't eat that.

01:46:59.000 I was like, I'll eat it. 1.00

01:47:00.000 I was like, fuck it, give it to me. 0.98

01:47:01.000 I know there's been some talk about doing a UFC in Russia, and I think a lot of it is probably based on the idea that Khabib at 25-0 is most likely somewhere along the line going to fight for the title. 0.99

01:47:12.000 I mean, if everything continues to go well as long as there's no injuries or something.

01:47:16.000 Yeah.

01:47:17.000 Especially now that he can make the weight.

01:47:19.000 Like, he made the weight pretty easy.

01:47:20.000 Yeah, it didn't look bad.

01:47:21.000 Not at all.

01:47:22.000 That would be a huge fight. 0.99

01:47:23.000 Fucking A. You have enough Russian talent that, you know... 1.00

01:47:26.000 Oh, yeah.

01:47:27.000 It would work well.

01:47:28.000 Just from Dagestan alone, you could fill the whole roster.

01:47:31.000 Yeah.

01:47:32.000 Dagestan versus the world. 0.94

01:47:34.000 You really could.

01:47:35.000 You almost could.

01:47:35.000 We had a fighter in Bellator, Shabalat Shomalayev, and ended up getting shot like five times in Dagestan.

01:47:40.000 Jesus Christ.

01:47:41.000 He lived.

01:47:42.000 He went after some gangster with a gun or something in a club, and he got like torn apart.

01:47:47.000 It's crazy, man.

01:47:49.000 It's a tough world.

01:47:49.000 We're so soft over here.

01:47:50.000 Sean Wheelock need to go camping over there for a little while.

01:47:52.000 Dude!

01:47:54.000 Like, you know, the wrestlers in Chechnya are amazing.

01:47:57.000 Saitiev Brothers is the greatest ever. 1.00

01:47:59.000 Well, fuck, man. 1.00

01:48:00.000 If you grew up in Chechnya and it's like either be a standout wrestler or, I don't know, pick up a gun and, you know, be a gangster. 1.00

01:48:07.000 They, you know, dude's amazing.

01:48:09.000 Yeah, it's interesting to see a guy from that really hard part of the world coming over and just dominating in MMA. With Khabib, you know that a lot of it is technique.

01:48:20.000 A lot of it is being trained by his father.

01:48:22.000 A lot of it is iron sharpens iron.

01:48:24.000 He's at AKA. He's wrestling with big giant guys that are really skillful all the time.

01:48:28.000 It's an amazing roster over there. 0.98

01:48:30.000 But a lot of it is this fucking mental toughness that he must have picked up some of that from being in Dagestan. 0.99

01:48:36.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:48:37.000 It just has to.

01:48:38.000 It's true.

01:48:38.000 I mean, the Russian fighters that I've dealt with, you can know them and call a ton of fights with them and they'll still kind of look at you like, they want to fight you or something.

01:48:47.000 You know, I know, hey, how's it going?

01:48:49.000 And they kind of like break character.

01:48:50.000 Like, hey, how are you doing?

01:48:51.000 But there's always this wall you got to get through almost every time.

01:48:54.000 You know, one of the...

01:48:55.000 Great fighters, though. 1.00

01:48:56.000 That Korshkov guy, that guy's a fucking beast. 1.00

01:48:59.000 Oh, monster. 1.00

01:48:59.000 That guy's a beast. 1.00

01:49:00.000 That was one of the most impressive Lima fights, too.

01:49:02.000 Whew! 0.99

01:49:03.000 He put that guy to sleep.

01:49:04.000 I was like, whoa.

01:49:05.000 Yeah, that left hook.

01:49:06.000 But it was a leg kick that set it up. 0.99

01:49:07.000 He was kicking the shit out of that leg. 0.98

01:49:09.000 I think Korshkov went like, I've got to trade now. 0.99

01:49:12.000 I've got to get this guy out of here.

01:49:13.000 It's not going to work.

01:49:14.000 And Korshkov, in my opinion, in a lot of ways, was one of the first guys to validate Bellator's 170-pound division from the performance he put against Henderson.

01:49:21.000 He shot Henderson down and beat him up.

01:49:23.000 Teed off on him and let him know, like, this is, I'm a real welterweight.

01:49:27.000 And then Lima made him look like, maybe he's not.

01:49:30.000 You know, like, maybe Lima's, that's a real welterweight.

01:49:33.000 He's a lot bigger.

01:49:33.000 He looked bigger.

01:49:34.000 Yeah.

01:49:34.000 Way bigger.

01:49:35.000 Yeah.

01:49:35.000 And then, you know, it's one of those things where that was a, that was, there was a big disparity between what people within the organization and people out of the organization thought.

01:49:43.000 Because a lot of people thought Henderson was going to come in and clean house and have two belts.

01:49:47.000 But there's one jinx.

01:49:49.000 That I have seen more than any other.

01:49:51.000 If you're listening, fighters, this is to you.

01:49:54.000 Don't talk about two belts before you have one belt.

01:49:57.000 Ooh, that is the jinx.

01:49:59.000 Dude, am I wrong?

01:50:00.000 Brandon Vera.

01:50:01.000 Brandon Vera.

01:50:01.000 I'm going to be a two belt champion.

01:50:03.000 He didn't win one belt.

01:50:05.000 Benson Henderson talked about winning two belts.

01:50:07.000 He didn't win one belt.

01:50:08.000 Talking about two belts before you've won one belt is a huge jinx.

01:50:12.000 Don't ever do that.

01:50:13.000 I've never seen it be good.

01:50:14.000 I've seen it a couple other times.

01:50:15.000 And it's never worked out.

01:50:17.000 When he left the UFC, he was one of the best guys in the division.

01:50:24.000 This 170-pound weight loss was just not right for him with a big guy like Korshkov.

01:50:28.000 And it would have been more prominent if it was against Lima.

01:50:31.000 Did you see their weigh-in?

01:50:33.000 Yeah, big difference.

01:50:35.000 It's one of those things where you think about, if a guy has trouble making 55, Well, he's a 70. No, he's not.

01:50:41.000 He's not.

01:50:42.000 There's a huge difference between a big 55er and a natural 70. They are not in the same class.

01:50:48.000 And Korshkov looked like a giant compared to him. 0.98

01:50:50.000 Well, the difference is Lima's just not going to fucking make 55. It's just not happening. 0.97

01:50:54.000 It's not in his DNA. If you can make the weight?

01:50:56.000 Yeah, make the weight.

01:50:57.000 Make the weight.

01:50:57.000 Yeah.

01:50:58.000 I know.

01:50:58.000 Yeah.

01:50:59.000 Boy, it's one of the most unfortunate parts of the sport.

01:51:02.000 It's like if the cut isn't tough, then you shouldn't be there, almost.

01:51:06.000 If you can make it easily, it's tough, man.

01:51:09.000 As long as it doesn't drain you, because everybody's different too, right, in their response to dehydration.

01:51:13.000 But Andy Foster, what he's done in California by instituting a bunch of new weight classes, I really hope that people follow suit.

01:51:20.000 I really do.

01:51:20.000 I really hope there's one every 10 pounds.

01:51:22.000 I just think giving people more options is going to...

01:51:24.000 There's some fighters that are just on the cusp where it's just dangerous.

01:51:28.000 And then maybe if they fought...

01:51:30.000 Like Dos Anjos goes up to 70. But that's a 55 to 70 15 pound jump.

01:51:34.000 That's a lot of weight, man.

01:51:36.000 50% more than if it was just 10. And I think 10 is the move.

01:51:39.000 I feel like every 10, you're not watering it down too much.

01:51:42.000 You're making it reasonable.

01:51:44.000 Just bang everything down to 5s. 0.94

01:51:46.000 55, 65, 75, 85, probably 95, 205, 225, heavyweight.

01:51:53.000 So we were having a discussion with this once again.

01:51:56.000 Boxing.

01:51:56.000 I was talking to Steve Farhood.

01:51:58.000 And I said, when they initially, because there weren't that many weight classes in boxing, they ended up adding a bunch of them.

01:52:02.000 I said, when they initially added those, were they seen as secondary weight classes?

01:52:04.000 And he went, yeah.

01:52:05.000 Yeah.

01:52:06.000 Always.

01:52:06.000 It took years until 155 got any respect.

01:52:11.000 It was considered people who couldn't hang at welterweight.

01:52:13.000 Well, here's a big one.

01:52:14.000 How about cruiserweight?

01:52:16.000 Yeah.

01:52:16.000 Cruiserweight never got respect to Holyfield.

01:52:18.000 Cruiserweight never gets respect to Holyfield. 0.63

01:52:19.000 When Holyfield fought Dwight Muhammad Kawi, that was the first time anybody gave a fuck about cruiserweight. 0.80

01:52:24.000 Yep.

01:52:25.000 And who else was cruiserweight? 0.94

01:52:26.000 Like, who the fuck else was there? 0.94

01:52:28.000 Dwight Muhammad Kawi. 0.98

01:52:29.000 Cruiser?

01:52:30.000 Was Saad Muhammad a light heavyweight?

01:52:32.000 Jean Pascal was.

01:52:34.000 Who else?

01:52:35.000 Michael Moore?

01:52:36.000 Did he stop at cruiserweight?

01:52:37.000 I think he went from light heavyweight to heavyweight.

01:52:38.000 I think he did too.

01:52:39.000 He did.

01:52:39.000 He didn't stop at cruiserweight.

01:52:40.000 It's just been one of those weird weight classes.

01:52:42.000 Like, why not?

01:52:43.000 Aaron Pryor. 0.99

01:52:44.000 Fucking monstrous fighter, but he fought at 40. And just, other than the Alexis Arguello fight, there weren't many stars at 40. You've got to go to 47 to get paid. 0.97

01:52:54.000 There's a reason...

01:52:55.000 Everybody talks about, oh, Floyd can't knock anybody out. 1.00

01:52:57.000 Floyd's like a fucking 35er. 1.00

01:52:59.000 He's really a lightweight. 0.99

01:53:00.000 If you've ever met him, he's not a big dude.

01:53:02.000 He had to go to 47 to get the big money fights.

01:53:05.000 That's why Roberto Duran went from 35 to 47, because he just couldn't make money at 35. Yeah, guys get tired of making the weight class, but they also realize you've got to chase the cash.

01:53:14.000 They go where the money is.

01:53:16.000 Like Terrence Crawford moving up.

01:53:18.000 Yeah, that's the problem.

01:53:19.000 It's very hard in MMA or any...

01:53:22.000 Combat sport, 47's kind of your limit.

01:53:25.000 Below 47, they've had some great fighters.

01:53:27.000 It's hard to build interest below 47 or 45 in MMA. Boxing's had the same problem.

01:53:32.000 So what happens?

01:53:34.000 People keep coming up.

01:53:35.000 So if you added a bunch of weight classes, guys who won it at 160 for a while would be seen as, oh, the guys who couldn't make it at 55 and 70. So it would take a while, maybe a star in that division, before it would become a legit division.

01:53:48.000 That would be the problem.

01:53:48.000 There'd be a lag of a few years.

01:53:50.000 When you'd go, oh, the 180-pound champ is just the guy who couldn't do it at 70. It's almost like there's too many fighters now and too many events.

01:53:59.000 It's almost like you couldn't have enough UFC events.

01:54:01.000 You would literally have to have UFC fights every week.

01:54:04.000 Yeah.

01:54:04.000 Like, maybe that would be the future model, where they have fights every week on television, and then they have pay-per-views, like, rarely.

01:54:10.000 Like, every four weeks or something like that.

01:54:12.000 It would take a lot to fill up four or five extra divisions.

01:54:16.000 That'd be tough.

01:54:17.000 It's hard to fill up the ones you have, depending on how you look at it.

01:54:20.000 Yeah, it would be, but I mean, man, I don't know.

01:54:23.000 I mean, I never get tired of watching fights.

01:54:25.000 If they had fights on every week, I wouldn't be complaining.

01:54:27.000 It's just I wonder whether or not it's sustainable.

01:54:31.000 That's the hard part.

01:54:32.000 That's always been the hard part.

01:54:34.000 So I went to see something that...

01:54:35.000 Nowitzki's on tomorrow, right?

01:54:38.000 Jeff Nowitzki, formerly of USADA, now working for the UFC, took me to the UFC Performance Institute this week. 1.00

01:54:45.000 Holy fucking shit, man. 1.00

01:54:47.000 That place is insane. 1.00

01:54:49.000 I don't know how much money they spent on that, but it's just like...

01:54:52.000 This is like some science lab for training fighters.

01:54:56.000 I mean, everything you could imagine they have in this giant-ass building.

01:55:00.000 I've heard every fighter on the roster can go there.

01:55:02.000 Anytime they want.

01:55:02.000 They feed them.

01:55:04.000 They take care of them in the cafe.

01:55:05.000 They make them healthy food.

01:55:06.000 They have all these different things that monitor your body composition, your hydration levels, all these different modalities for healing and recovery.

01:55:15.000 Everything. 0.95

01:55:15.000 You fucking name it, they have it. 0.95

01:55:17.000 It was super impressive. 0.99

01:55:19.000 Super impressive.

01:55:20.000 They have all these video systems that are around the octagon constantly with their monitoring, sparring from like a bunch of different angles.

01:55:27.000 They can get 3D video of it.

01:55:29.000 They can rotate it.

01:55:30.000 Well, they can watch you spar from any angle.

01:55:32.000 Your coaches could point out little weird things that you might be doing that you're not aware of, but pointed out they always have the angle.

01:55:38.000 They get every single angle.

01:55:39.000 It's amazing.

01:55:40.000 They have a thing there that, like these punch registers, you know.

01:55:44.000 Yeah.

01:55:44.000 Like the video game, except much more scientific.

01:55:46.000 Yeah.

01:55:47.000 Here's a little trivia.

01:55:47.000 You know, I was told...

01:55:49.000 Who is the number one pound for pound puncher?

01:55:52.000 Francis Ngannou.

01:55:53.000 By weight class.

01:55:54.000 No, by weight class.

01:55:54.000 By weight class.

01:55:55.000 By weight class.

01:55:56.000 Like, pound for pound.

01:55:58.000 Justin Gaethje.

01:55:59.000 That's what I was told. 1.00

01:56:00.000 Damn. 1.00

01:56:00.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:56:01.000 That's impressive.

01:56:02.000 Forrest Griffin told me that.

01:56:03.000 I wonder how many people have punched it, though.

01:56:05.000 Yeah, I don't know.

01:56:05.000 I don't know.

01:56:06.000 This is what I was told by Forrest Griffin. 1.00

01:56:09.000 Well, he certainly punches hard as fuck. 1.00

01:56:11.000 There's no doubt about it. 1.00

01:56:12.000 Pound for pound, I believe it.

01:56:12.000 Pound for pound, yeah.

01:56:13.000 I mean, Ngannou just punches harder than anybody, period.

01:56:17.000 Ngannou blew it out of the water by some insane amount of thousands of pounds a square inch.

01:56:23.000 They said he's getting hit by a... 1.00

01:56:24.000 Fucking Drago shit. 1.00

01:56:25.000 Whatever he hits, he destroys, bro. 1.00

01:56:26.000 They said he's getting hit by an escort.

01:56:29.000 Like a Ford Escort.

01:56:30.000 That's what it's like.

01:56:31.000 Yeah.

01:56:31.000 I thought of a totally different escort for a second.

01:56:34.000 Yeah, there it is.

01:56:35.000 They got a video of it, of him hitting this thing.

01:56:37.000 That's Duncan French.

01:56:39.000 Boom! 0.99

01:56:42.000 So they have him do this thing, and they had this limit before, or this record before, that actually I think was set by Tyrone Spong.

01:56:51.000 No surprise there.

01:56:52.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:56:53.000 He's an interesting fucking character, Francis Ngannou. 0.99

01:56:55.000 You want to talk about a guy that is literally right out of an author's pen. 0.99

01:57:00.000 Really?

01:57:00.000 You're going to have a guy who, you know, like Robert E. Howard when he used to write the Conan books.

01:57:05.000 Yep.

01:57:06.000 Like, he used to work in a sand mine.

01:57:09.000 He used to dig sand when he was a young man. 0.98

01:57:13.000 Like, you know how much fucking hard work it is? 0.94

01:57:15.000 Digging in the sand every day and carrying it away and just getting stronger and stronger. 0.97

01:57:20.000 It's literally like when Conan was strapped to the wheel. 1.00

01:57:23.000 Conan pushed in the fucking mill. 1.00

01:57:23.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:57:24.000 And then he was homeless five years ago.

01:57:27.000 Moves to Paris.

01:57:28.000 Wants to try boxing.

01:57:29.000 Someone sees him in a gym and goes, hey, you should be in MMA. And he's like, okay.

01:57:34.000 So he goes into MMA. Goes to the UFC, in two years he's fighting for the title, and he's a big favorite over the champion, who is, if the champion wins, breaks the longest-running title fight streak, winning title fights in the heavyweight division, which is only two.

01:57:51.000 It's a great story.

01:57:51.000 It's a fantastic story.

01:57:53.000 Five years ago, homeless.

01:57:55.000 That's nuts.

01:57:56.000 Yeah.

01:57:57.000 It's like, you know, Henry Armstrong was working on a railroad. 1.00

01:58:00.000 Saw a newspaper article about a guy winning a fight and said, fuck this railroad shit. 1.00

01:58:04.000 And went and started boxing. 1.00

01:58:05.000 Came one of the greatest of all time.

01:58:06.000 Yeah, or when Jack Johnson first became the heavyweight champion.

01:58:09.000 I mean, everybody kind of knew. 0.99

01:58:11.000 You know, you saw Jack Johnson like, oh my god, these guys are fucked. 1.00

01:58:14.000 Yeah. 1.00

01:58:15.000 It's all downhill from here.

01:58:17.000 Yeah.

01:58:18.000 Yeah, him versus Stipe is very, very interesting.

01:58:22.000 I want to see if Stipe can figure out a way to avoid the big shots, close the distance, get a hold of him, and if he can take him to the ground.

01:58:29.000 Here's my advice for anybody calling that fight.

01:58:31.000 You included.

01:58:32.000 I would look at everything but power.

01:58:34.000 In terms of who's got the better footwork, who's moving their head a little bit more, who's got a little more defense, because, man, that's going to be, I think, tell the story, is one who avoids getting hit. 0.98

01:58:43.000 Because they can both knock you the fuck out, man. 0.99

01:58:45.000 They both certainly can knock you the fuck out, but... 0.99

01:58:49.000 Francis does it in a weirder way. 0.99

01:58:51.000 Yeah, he does.

01:58:52.000 He does it in a superhuman way where you're like...

01:58:54.000 We see the angle of his punches.

01:58:56.000 It's like he's trying to rip your soul out of your body, man.

01:58:58.000 The Alistair left hook, uppercut, combination punch, that shovel hook was just one of the most terrifying things I've ever seen anybody get hit with in all my years of calling sports.

01:59:07.000 Looked like a Pez dispenser.

01:59:08.000 Boom! 0.99

01:59:09.000 Head all the way back.

01:59:09.000 The photo is so crazy.

01:59:10.000 It's almost like a really bad action movie where the guy who's rising through the ranks is just blasting everybody into orbit.

01:59:17.000 You! 0.99

01:59:18.000 You go to sleep! 0.74

01:59:19.000 Even talks like those people.

01:59:21.000 It's crazy.

01:59:22.000 Yeah.

01:59:22.000 Every now and then you get a story like that.

01:59:24.000 It seems like it's like Adam.

01:59:25.000 Like Justin Wren. 0.99

01:59:26.000 His story is just ridiculous, man. 0.95

01:59:28.000 Yeah. 0.99

01:59:28.000 No, he's amazing. 0.99

01:59:29.000 You know?

01:59:30.000 The other thing about Ngannou is the way he trash talks is hilarious.

01:59:36.000 Like, Stipe said he's not intimidated by any man, and Francis goes, Don't lie, Stipe. 0.80

01:59:42.000 Don't lie.

01:59:44.000 Like, it's... 0.98

01:59:45.000 He's so calm with it, and it's so fucking terrifying. 0.88

01:59:49.000 He was doing a press conference with Alistair. 0.96

01:59:51.000 It was like Thursday before Saturday's fight.

01:59:55.000 They're facing off wearing their suits, and Francis goes, Saturday night you go to sleep.

02:00:01.000 Saturday night you sleep.

02:00:03.000 And he's like, oh no!

02:00:06.000 Oh no!

02:00:07.000 Oh no! 1.00

02:00:08.000 That trash talking bothers me. 0.99

02:00:10.000 He's so confident about it, too, and he was right. 0.99

02:00:13.000 Rory's like that.

02:00:15.000 I will take the belt, and I will take your health.

02:00:19.000 And I'm holding the mic like, who?

02:00:22.000 Okay, I want to hurt him so bad that he goes to the hospital and never wants to fight me again.

02:00:28.000 And you go, okay? 1.00

02:00:31.000 He's not talking shit, man. 1.00

02:00:33.000 He's not talking shit, man. 1.00

02:00:35.000 Sometimes people talk shit, and they're just trying to put up a bluff. 1.00

02:00:39.000 Yeah. 1.00

02:00:40.000 Even great fighters have said some shit. 0.99

02:00:43.000 Might have believed at the time, like when BJ was saying to George St. Pierre, George, we're going to fight to the death. 0.99

02:00:50.000 And I'm serious, George. 0.99

02:00:51.000 I'm going to try to kill you. 1.00

02:00:53.000 Remember that? 1.00

02:00:54.000 Yeah, I remember it well.

02:00:55.000 Yeah, but it didn't work out that way.

02:00:57.000 It did not work out that way at all.

02:00:58.000 No, it did not work out that way.

02:00:59.000 He might have believed it when he was saying it.

02:01:01.000 But man, when you're in that dark, dark moment. 0.99

02:01:05.000 Big-ass French-Canadian dropping knuckles in your face. 1.00

02:01:07.000 Different world, man. 1.00

02:01:09.000 Yeah.

02:01:09.000 That was another one where you're like, there's a big difference between a big 55er and a real 70, dude.

02:01:14.000 Because he put it on him that night. 0.96

02:01:17.000 Well, he was so fucking strong, and George was in his prime back then. 0.99

02:01:22.000 And he also was a really good guy, and he was very motivated by BJ's talking shit to him. 0.99

02:01:27.000 It really pissed him off. 0.97

02:01:29.000 Because he's a nice guy, you know?

02:01:31.000 I mean...

02:01:32.000 The best way to fight a guy like George is to be respectful. 1.00

02:01:34.000 If he's going to kick your ass, he's going to kick your ass anyway. 1.00

02:01:36.000 Yeah, it's not like you're going to give him extra ass-whooping motivation. 1.00

02:01:39.000 I think he had a little extra ass-whooping motivation for Bisping, though. 0.98

02:01:42.000 I really do. 1.00

02:01:43.000 Bisping talked so much shit to him that when he got his back, he's like, You're going to sleep, my friend! 1.00

02:01:47.000 Put it on him, man. 1.00

02:01:49.000 Put it on him.

02:01:50.000 Put it on him standing up, too, man.

02:01:52.000 Just starting to wear down, too.

02:01:53.000 Just when I thought, man, maybe the tights start...

02:01:55.000 Because, you know, Bisping, his whole thing is he's not a particularly hard puncher.

02:01:58.000 His wrestling isn't great. 0.96

02:01:59.000 It's he wears you the fuck down. 0.92

02:02:01.000 Not a big 185-er. 0.99

02:02:02.000 No. 0.98

02:02:03.000 It's just he wears you the fuck down. 0.98

02:02:05.000 He was also particularly effective off of his back with elbows. 0.98

02:02:07.000 He was.

02:02:08.000 I was impressed with that.

02:02:09.000 Cut George up with those elbows off his back. 0.51

02:02:11.000 That made it a real problem because George was having a hard time seeing him.

02:02:13.000 Man, that blood was everywhere.

02:02:14.000 Yeah.

02:02:15.000 You know?

02:02:16.000 What a good fight.

02:02:17.000 I kind of like the story of George just retires.

02:02:19.000 It doesn't bother me.

02:02:20.000 Yeah.

02:02:21.000 I like it.

02:02:22.000 I like it.

02:02:22.000 He bucked it.

02:02:23.000 He bucked it.

02:02:24.000 Everybody doubted him.

02:02:25.000 Came back, won.

02:02:26.000 Won by a finish.

02:02:27.000 Like, yeah.

02:02:28.000 Take it easy.

02:02:29.000 Now I'm out.

02:02:29.000 See ya.

02:02:30.000 Now I'm seriously out.

02:02:31.000 No, really.

02:02:32.000 This time I mean it.

02:02:32.000 Yeah.

02:02:33.000 Or he comes back in a year and 155. Yeah, then it's what?

02:02:38.000 Whitaker Rockhold?

02:02:40.000 Yeah, man.

02:02:42.000 I like that a lot.

02:02:43.000 I like that fight a lot. 0.97

02:02:44.000 That's a dangerous ass fight for both guys.

02:02:47.000 You ever train with Jacare? 0.93

02:02:48.000 No, never.

02:02:49.000 Dude, he was one of the first guys when I was a blue belt.

02:02:51.000 He came by and he was getting ready for This is back when he beat Holger at Worlds, broke his arm and still won.

02:02:57.000 Yeah, that was insane.

02:02:59.000 Yeah, that was insane.

02:03:00.000 He would not tap.

02:03:01.000 He wouldn't tap.

02:03:01.000 Wrote it out.

02:03:02.000 They changed the rules after that, you know that.

02:03:04.000 Really?

02:03:04.000 Yeah, because Jacare literally stuck his...

02:03:06.000 For people who are listening and don't know about it, Holger Gracie broke Jacare's arm in the absolute division in the Worlds...

02:03:15.000 2005?

02:03:15.000 2006?

02:03:16.000 2004?

02:03:17.000 Around there.

02:03:17.000 Mid 2000. Snapped it.

02:03:19.000 Snapped it.

02:03:20.000 Good.

02:03:20.000 But Jacare gets out.

02:03:21.000 So he breaks it, but he steps over the head and gets out.

02:03:24.000 Jacare stands up and Holger looks at the referee and goes, I broke his arm.

02:03:28.000 And Jacare takes his broken arm, stuffs it in his belt.

02:03:33.000 And wins the match.

02:03:34.000 Because he was already ahead. 0.98

02:03:35.000 He just kind of like, you know, stalled out for like two minutes and won the fucking match against the greatest of all time with a broken arm. 0.94

02:03:41.000 So I trained with him at that point. 0.97

02:03:43.000 He was like in beast mode.

02:03:44.000 It was unbelievable.

02:03:45.000 It's like being in a washing machine.

02:03:47.000 The only way I can describe it.

02:03:48.000 Because once he grabs you, it's like he just flings you in your head and you see your feet fly into the ceiling.

02:03:53.000 It's crazy.

02:03:54.000 Yeah, there it is, man.

02:03:55.000 Yeah, I remember this, man.

02:03:57.000 I remember it. 1.00

02:03:57.000 He just snapped that fucking arm. 1.00

02:03:59.000 Pulls it out and it is... 1.00

02:04:01.000 Look at his left arm.

02:04:02.000 It is just...

02:04:03.000 Just jacked.

02:04:04.000 Done, man.

02:04:06.000 And he went out of bounds.

02:04:07.000 Right.

02:04:08.000 And then he gets up.

02:04:09.000 And Hojer at some point, I think right there, tells the referee, his arm's broken.

02:04:13.000 That's it.

02:04:14.000 And Jacare stuffs his broken arm in his belt and keeps fighting.

02:04:20.000 Which is beastly.

02:04:21.000 He did a seminar at our place and at the end he fought everybody in the room.

02:04:26.000 There were like 60 people there.

02:04:28.000 Wow.

02:04:28.000 And he fought everybody.

02:04:29.000 Tapped everybody out.

02:04:30.000 Yeah, in his prime, in particular, in jiu-jitsu, he was unbelievably good.

02:04:34.000 And in MMA, probably one of the best jiu-jitsu guys ever.

02:04:37.000 Did he really?

02:04:38.000 Beat Hojer, beat Verdum.

02:04:39.000 Wow.

02:04:40.000 He beat everybody.

02:04:41.000 He beat Ted today.

02:04:42.000 He's one of my favorites.

02:04:42.000 I saw him live in Abu Dhabi, too, in like 2003. Yep.

02:04:47.000 He lost to Salo that year.

02:04:50.000 But he made it to the finals.

02:04:52.000 He beat Haiyan Gracie, and then he beat Ricardo Almeida, and then he lost to Salo.

02:04:58.000 I remember that Hai and Gracie fight.

02:05:00.000 That was amazing.

02:05:00.000 Man, he was all over Hai.

02:05:01.000 The Salo fight was amazing, too.

02:05:02.000 Yeah, he was all over Hai. 0.91

02:05:03.000 Salo's another guy that people forget about.

02:05:05.000 I love that guy.

02:05:06.000 Oh, my God.

02:05:07.000 Love him. 0.99

02:05:07.000 Him and his brother, Janji, that fucking smash style of jiu-jitsu. 0.99

02:05:14.000 That's where I'm from. 0.80

02:05:14.000 That's kind of like my, you know, I'm a Carlson guy, and, you know, my instructor's a guy named Hediogo, and he's always telling me, he goes, Jimmy, he always uses the old people metaphors. 0.80

02:05:21.000 He's like, Jimmy, he's like, he goes, then Mario passed your guard, Jimmy, you'll finish.

02:05:25.000 It's over for you.

02:05:26.000 Like, don't, like, so he's always like, Jimmy, pfft.

02:05:29.000 Alan Goas, Mount you, Jimmy? 1.00

02:05:30.000 You're fucking dumb, bro. 1.00

02:05:31.000 He's got those old school names in his head. 1.00

02:05:32.000 Bro, you're fucking dumb, man. 1.00

02:05:33.000 Carlo Borio, take your back. 1.00

02:05:35.000 Pfft, poha, Jimmy, you'll finish.

02:05:36.000 That's a guy that people sleep on is Laborio.

02:05:40.000 Laborio, from what I have heard, obviously this is even before my time, competitively he was the guy in the 90s.

02:05:50.000 People who were around in that era, who was the guy?

02:05:52.000 They're like...

02:05:53.000 Ricardo Laborio was the guy.

02:05:55.000 He took Worlds the first year it happened.

02:05:57.000 It's interesting that these guys are still around, still coaching MMA fighters, still in the mix of the sport.

02:06:03.000 They have to be.

02:06:03.000 Yeah.

02:06:04.000 When you look at Dede Penares, Ricardo Laborio...

02:06:09.000 We're both from the same team.

02:06:11.000 Both Carlson guys.

02:06:12.000 A lot of Carlson guys.

02:06:14.000 Sperry, Murillo Bustamante, Carlos Pajeto.

02:06:17.000 You think about it, that was the first greasy team that had a real MMA team.

02:06:20.000 So those guys spread out and created so many teams.

02:06:23.000 Vitor.

02:06:24.000 A huge V tour.

02:06:26.000 Yeah.

02:06:27.000 So, what happens now with Jimmy Smith?

02:06:29.000 Jimmy Smith sits back until Jimmy Smith can make some sort of announcement?

02:06:34.000 Yes, that is what Jimmy Smith does.

02:06:35.000 Jimmy Smith's got some pieces in motion, though.

02:06:37.000 I have pieces in motion.

02:06:38.000 Allegedly.

02:06:38.000 Maybe not.

02:06:38.000 Maybe we're just bullshitting you folks.

02:06:40.000 Could be.

02:06:41.000 Maybe.

02:06:42.000 I'm working a Jamba Juice next week. 1.00

02:06:44.000 But you fucked up, Bellator! 1.00

02:06:46.000 I'm telling you, you fucked up. 1.00

02:06:48.000 Straight from Joe Rogan's mouth. 1.00

02:06:49.000 You made a mistake.

02:06:51.000 We'll do this more often, my brother.

02:06:52.000 Dude, anytime, man.

02:06:53.000 You're an L.A. guy.

02:06:54.000 I'm an L.A. guy.

02:06:55.000 It took me 20 minutes to drive up.

02:06:56.000 There's a ton of fights to talk about.

02:06:57.000 We'll definitely do this more often.

02:06:59.000 I wish we could say more things, folks, but you're going to figure it out.

02:07:04.000 Yeah, you will.

02:07:05.000 JimmySmithMMA on Twitter and on Instagram.

02:07:08.000 And...

02:07:09.000 I hope we work together, my friend.

02:07:11.000 Always a pleasure, my brother.

02:07:13.000 Thank you very much, very much.

02:07:14.000 And we'll be back tomorrow with the Golden Snitch, Jeff Nowitzki, and more!

The Joe Rogan Experience - February 10, 2010

JRE MMA Show #8 with Jimmy Smith

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Transcript