Stephen A. Smith's comments about Cowboy Cerrone's post-fight comments about being a "quitter" have a lot to do with the way that he handled the situation, and we're here to talk about it. Plus, we talk about the UFC's new rules regarding who can and can't be allowed to call a fighter a quitter, and why it's a bad idea. And we have a special guest on the show this week, Josh Koscheck, who is a long time friend of the show and has been with us through it all. Josh is a former UFC fighter, former Strikeforce fighter, and is now a co-host on ESPN's "The Undefeated" and host of the "Inside the Octagon" show on ESPN Radio in New York. He's also a long-time friend of mine, and I think he's one of the most genuine people I've ever met in the fight game. I hope you enjoy this episode, and don't forget to give us a rating and review the show on Apple Podcasts and wherever else you're listening! If you like what you hear, please HIT SUBSCRIBE and tell a friend about this podcast! We'll be looking out for you in next week's mailbag! Cheers, Cheers. Cheers! Cheers Cheers -Jon & Jon and Cheers again! -Eugene Jon & Nate & Nate Music: "Good Morning America" by Jon & Josh "The Cheers" (featuring: "The Good Morning America's" by John Rocha (feat. ) & "Goodbye" by Jake "The Best of Goodfellas" by Jonathan "The Irishman" (Music: "Too Effing Goodbye" by The Good Morning Goodbyes by John "Mr. John" & "Thank You" by Joe "The Badger" (Solo) "Good Luck" by Jeff Perla ( ) - "Outro Music: "Solo" by "The Man in the Gym" by Matt "The Real Good Morning " by Joe Goodspeed " by Chad "The Big Dawgs" by Chris "The Duke" (Fucking Goodbye" ( ) & "Outtro Music: Good Morning by Josh "Buckle Up" by Squeals ( ) ( ) by "Squeals & "I'll See You Soon" by Kevin "The White House"
00:00:48.000And I love Gus, when he's talking basketball, I think he's got the energy and the voice that makes people like, oh wow, they're gripped to the TV. This, I can understand what Steve and Nate, but this is not what you want to release.
00:01:02.000After you just called someone who's a pioneer in the sport, you basically called him a quitter.
00:02:21.000And when someone calls you acquitted like that, you better be, I'm not saying he should be careful, like watch his back, but don't expect these fighters to be very courteous to you next time you walk in the hall.
00:02:29.000And that's the issue that I think we come across here.
00:02:33.000Fighters are very offensive when, they get offended when things like this.
00:03:03.000And the other guy's like, I can't believe you're saying that!
00:03:06.000You could do that in sports radio and people love it.
00:03:08.000Because if you're on the job site and you're listening to the radio and you're fucking hammering nails, you're like, you're right, he does suck!
00:03:14.000There's a mentality that goes along with that kind of sports radio, sports guy talk.
00:03:39.000But the other thing, though, too, is that you're criticizing someone for being a quitter and someone who's been there on every level of the game.
00:03:52.000And to be on the talk show, like you're saying, those talk show radios...
00:03:55.000That's the energy you need to bring when you're going against someone like Max Kellerman or any of the other or Skip Bayless and those guys.
00:04:01.000Go ahead and have that conversation with them.
00:04:03.000But you cannot look like that and then talk shit.
00:06:37.000People say, oh, well, Khabib took the round off.
00:06:39.000Yeah, because maybe he tried to finish him at the end of the second, but the bottom line is, he still won the round.
00:06:44.000And there's not only that, but there was a lot of times and opportunities where Khabib had a hard time getting the takedown.
00:06:50.000We didn't see that against guys with wrestling backgrounds like Abel Trujillo and those other guys, where he was flinging around winning records basically for the most takedowns in one fight.
00:06:58.000There's tons of things that Conor does that people overlook and underestimate because he's such a knockout artist and he's so good.
00:07:05.000And his stance and his style and things like that, he brought this to the next level.
00:07:10.000And you cannot discredit what he's done in the sport.
00:07:14.000What I learned from that is that from somebody who can take 15 months off and come back and perform the way that he did against someone like Donald Cerrone, Absolutely amazing.
00:07:23.000That's why you need guys like you doing post-fight commentary and discussing these things, not people who don't understand the sport and practice dick punches.
00:08:21.000So if you want to talk about MMA, I'd like to talk to MMA about someone else who knows MMA. Like you were saying though, I was listening to one of your podcasts the other day with Mike Baker.
00:08:31.000And he said like, look, I don't agree with Bernie Sanders' policies.
00:08:34.000But Bernie Sanders probably is a really nice guy.
00:08:36.000It doesn't mean that I have to like what he does in front of the camera for him to call MMA. I don't have to like that.
00:09:15.000I get that it's a good idea for all people that have never covered the sport to try to get into it.
00:09:21.000Maybe hold off on the videos like that for a while before you post them.
00:09:27.000I like that he's trying and I'm gonna give him credit for that and I think like with Gus, there was a lot of rumblings about Gus Johnson in the very beginning, but we gave him a run for a while and I really like Gus.
00:09:37.000He's a great person, always been great every time I've talked to him and met with him and worked with him side by side as well, calling fights with Strikeforce.
00:09:44.000Great person, but his forte is basketball and for him, whatever his forte is, Stephen A. Smith, I think he may have to stick with that and I think I agree, they have to bring DC back in to work with you alongside him.
00:11:50.000It's not, because the guys themselves can fight.
00:11:55.000When you see what happened last night at Kansas and Kansas State or whatever, and they started throwing punches, it looked like a bunch of girls throwing windmills.
00:12:19.000It's just so common with sports to talk about a guy who can't show up on game day.
00:12:24.000Talk about a guy who keeps dropping the ball.
00:12:26.000And you shit on those guys, but it's just a different thing with fighting.
00:12:31.000And it's also, with fighting, you have to know it, or no one's going to respect you.
00:12:37.000If you don't know what you're talking about, and you're talking about it in front of millions of people, man, that's a bad look for everybody.
00:12:44.000It's a bad look for ESPN, it's a bad look for him, it's a bad look for the sport.
00:12:48.000It's like, there's other people that can do this.
00:12:51.000Yeah, we caught a lot of flack for Gus for a while.
00:13:07.000But it does, honestly, like you just said, it does reflect badly, not just on ESPN itself, but the UFC as well, because they're in business together.
00:13:16.000You guys, we need to monitor who's behind that microphone because we're representing our talent, and our talent is what makes us the money.
00:13:22.000But what's funny is, with Stephen A. Smith, his personality and his brand is based on that kind of shit-talking, so this is all good for him.
00:14:44.000If you want to say it in the gym to one of your homies and you're just hanging out and maybe one of them doesn't like Cowboy and someone talks trash and that's private and no one hears it, that's fine and good.
00:14:56.000But when you want to do that publicly, you want to broadcast that and then also do it on ESPN, I think it's just short-sighted and I think it's foolish.
00:15:04.000Yeah, I'm going to go a little bit more hard on the paint on guys like DC who are on my post right there.
00:15:27.000He's trying to better understand our sport.
00:15:29.000It means he's a massive star who can talk from his perch and no one can touch him, yet he chooses to try and learn the game so there's some weight to his opinion.
00:15:43.000I told him, I said, look, just because Stephen A. Smith might be good for business in the ESPN business for you later on, I said, that doesn't mean you've got to tone that line, buddy.
00:15:54.000But look, DC's one of my best friends, man, and he's absolutely hilarious and just fun.
00:15:57.000He likes to do this to stir the pot because like you were just saying with Stephen A., he likes to do this type of stuff so people keep talking.
00:16:34.000It's kind of a sport, but it's It's sport in its highest sense of expression, where you're literally using your body to try to stop another man's body.
00:16:45.000And as intense as it gets, and I think it deserves more respect.
00:16:51.000When I talk about fighters, my concentration has always been to elevate.
00:16:57.000My concentration has never been to demean someone.
00:17:00.000There's something that they did that's illegal.
00:17:02.000There's some sort of blatant foul that should be stopped or something that's really dangerous that they're doing that should be chastised.
00:17:10.000But the sport, it's a higher level of consequence and risk, and it needs to be respected that way.
00:17:20.000I listen to your show quite a bit, and I like a lot of what you had talked about before when you first got into comedy about talking about...
00:17:28.000How some of the other comics was like kind of shit on other young comics kind of up and coming and when you came in it was like a different you try to just ingrain in people like hey I want to build you all of you guys up that are with me on the same set.
00:17:39.000If we're doing the show and we're all on the same night let's all just fucking make each other look good.
00:17:43.000I feel like Especially in fighting, whether it's boxing, MMA, anything along those lines, we gotta be elevating each other to make each other better.
00:17:51.000Like, hey, this guy is good, this guy is good.
00:17:53.000Without talking shit, because we, like yourself specifically, as well as like even myself and other guys that have shows and podcasts and start talking, we're on a different level of platform that can really kind of either make or break some people's careers.
00:18:13.000Anytime you do wrestling, it's a one-on-one combative sport.
00:18:16.000Anytime wrestling, MMA, confidence is key.
00:18:19.000If my confidence is low, then that means that I'm probably not going to perform my best.
00:18:23.000And when you take a loss, it goes lower and lower.
00:18:25.000When you've got to hear it from fucking people that don't know the business, like this right here, it's just another thing added on.
00:18:32.000And for other MMA guys to shit on other MMA guys...
00:18:35.000All that does is tear them down even more and you could potentially, I'm not saying ruin their career, but you're not helping them get to their goals and their levels.
00:18:43.000It's better if everyone shines and we all handle ourselves with a class and respect.
00:18:47.000And I feel like we just, in general, need to hold ourselves to a higher standard if we're talking MMA and making sure that we showcase this guy as really good.
00:18:57.000All I do when I talk about Frank Yeager is talk about how such an amazing person, even when he has a bad performance, he's still one of the best to ever do the game and all the things that he's done from before in the past.
00:19:10.000Somebody who, look, he exploded on the scene.
00:19:12.000I was training with him when he had that first run through Din Thomas, Uno, all those guys.
00:19:17.000He was training at AKA. All the things that happen now, to me, those are just bumps in the row as fighters get older and they just don't know how to react.
00:19:42.000And we should just be talking in general about lifting these guys up to the next level.
00:19:46.000And that's the way I think every sport should handle it.
00:19:49.000The argument against that would be the massive success that Conor's had, shitting on people in press conferences and shitting on people and leading up to a fight and the fact that that's built up so much animosity but also so much attention.
00:20:56.000He tried to hit him before everything was set up, and he got cracked for it.
00:21:01.000Yeah, I understand what you're saying in those terms, but when you're promoting a fight, promoting a fight, to me, is a separate thing.
00:21:07.000Though I think Conor overstepped the boundary when he talked about Khabib and all the other family stuff, especially when he posted the picture with his wife.
00:21:55.000And I think, look, there's a difference between marketing the fight and then you realize when the fight's done, shaking hands and be like, okay, look, let's do it again.
00:22:01.000And that to me, that's a fighter's mentality.
00:22:05.000I want another crack at you, whether I won or I lost.
00:22:44.000You're going to always get that, I think, when there's blatant disregard or disrespect for somebody, especially of that caliber, like Misha Tate.
00:24:09.000And you could tell, look, Khabib's had more experience in terms of MMA. You know, like, Samba was basically just MMA with a gi top on and, you know, occasionally they wear shin guards.
00:24:21.000With Ed, Ed was relatively new into the sport when they first started training.
00:24:24.000And Ed was able to do a lot of good things to him.
00:24:27.000And Khabib was able to do a lot of good things to him.
00:24:30.000Without saying too much, both of them definitely benefit from their training together.
00:24:34.000And that's what's great about our gym.
00:24:38.000Like, sure, guys want to one-up each other when it comes to sparring, but...
00:24:41.000I would say that Ed, he got the better of learning the most from that situation, whereas Khabib realized that his stuff works on the top caliber guys in the world.
00:24:52.000Well, you guys have at AKA, you guys have one of the most wrestling heavy in terms of high level wrestling.
00:24:59.000You have one of the most concentrated camps.
00:25:02.000Yeah, what people need to remember is that that camp was ran by Crazy Bob Cook, and Javier first, Javier, Crazy Bob Cook, but then also when they linked up with, when Bob Cook linked up with Zincon Entertainment, and the Zincon family is very into wrestling.
00:25:16.000All three brothers were All-Americans at Fresno State, wrestled with Lorenzo Neal, who was a Professional football player in the NFL, but also wrestled at Fresno State, also an All-American.
00:25:25.000Those guys all linked up, and they're big, big into wrestling.
00:25:29.000So what they've done, like I literally could tell you this, is he would, the three brothers would, if I brought up to a wrestler right now that I'd never heard of, you probably never heard of, they could tell you all their stats.
00:25:39.000They could tell you what they did in high school.
00:25:41.000They could tell you what they did in college.
00:25:42.000They could tell you how far they potentially will go in the Olympics.
00:25:45.000Like, that's how much ingrained that they are into this.
00:25:47.000So a lot of the reasons why we've gotten guys like Ed Ruth, Aaron Pico was signed with them when he first started his career, DC, you know, Deron Wynn, all these guys that have come, they've all come through because of Dwayne Zincon.
00:26:04.000He's such a talented guy, and he's still very young, but there was so much hype on that kid right out of the gate, and they put him in against real tough competition right out of the gate.
00:26:16.000Yeah, look, he had to fight tough competition right out of the gate.
00:26:20.000What people need to understand is this, is if I'm going to pay you this amount of money because there's so much hype around you, then you're going to have to fight this level of guy.
00:27:00.000And so, when that happened, and I'm not knocking them, that's smart on their part.
00:27:03.000I mean, every top guy's going to be like, yeah, let's see what he is first and then we'll figure it out.
00:27:07.000But then as soon as he lost to Zach Freeman, who was tall, long, lengthy, you know, good, decent submissions, not a world beater, but he was good.
00:27:15.000Aaron got exposed in the first fight, got clipped, then jumped in on a double leg, got guillotine, was out.
00:27:20.000Then he decided to make the loop down to 145, had a couple good performances.
00:27:27.000He's got heavy hands, but he's a boxing base with wrestling background, which works If you've already been around guys that have done plenty of kickboxing, if you're just a boxing base, kicks come from angles you're not used to, like different from punches.
00:27:42.000And so he just needed to get to a camp and stay focused on one area with one or two coaches that would groom him into that.
00:27:50.000Now that he's at Jackson Wink, I think it's perfect for him because he's there with good, really, really good grapplers and really, really good guys.
00:27:57.000And so with With Jackson there grooming him and telling him how the game plan...
00:28:02.000Jackson's one of the best at game planning.
00:28:21.000It's hard when you take someone from school, put them into that type of thing, and they have success.
00:28:27.000And they think they're going to continue to have success on a world-class level like in any sport.
00:28:33.000And since he had such success at a young age, his dad and his family got really involved into doing that and pushing him in that direction.
00:28:43.000And that's not always the best scenario and situation.
00:28:46.000I think sometimes you need to have management.
00:28:49.000And trainers guide you when you're talking about a sport that other people have no idea what's going on.
00:28:57.000People think like, oh, I think family members, and I hear this all the time, and I can speak from experience, my family sometimes comes in and says, yeah, how come you don't make what Conor McGregor's making?
00:29:13.000You don't have to explain the entire business to them.
00:29:15.000Yeah, I don't, yeah, I'd have to explain everything.
00:29:16.000And so when you have someone like Pico's parent, his dad and his, you know, his brother, I think, were kind of helping with management and trying to get sponsors and do this.
00:29:23.000They were expecting people to like, you know, to bend over and be like, hey, you know, like, yeah, this is Aaron Pico and this and that because he's had such success at a young age and how good and talented he was in the gym.
00:29:34.000But like Alvin Iverson said, man, we're talking about practice?
00:29:50.000And you also have to take into consideration that, yeah, he's had a tremendous amount of success in wrestling, and yes, he's got very good hands, but...
00:34:56.000Yeah, there's a lot of these guys, they're so tough, they're almost too tough for their own good, and they're training on injuries and just pushing through the pain, and they're just chewing up the cartilage and tearing up the labrum.
00:35:07.000And here's the thing, to go back to the Joe Silva thing, but then a lot of it is because conversations like that.
00:35:13.000It's the conversations like, well, fine, we're just going to shelf you.
00:35:15.000Well, these guys, when they get a call for a title, or they get a call for a fight on the main card, or their families are starving, or they're hungry, people think that everyone's making Conor McGregor money.
00:35:28.000My whole family thought I was making Conor McGregor money.
00:35:29.000Like, why are you not making that money?
00:35:31.000And I'm like, you guys, I almost want to say, shut up.
00:35:36.000I've been getting punched in the face for 20 years.
00:35:38.000I don't want to hear this shit right now.
00:35:54.000But look, what I wanted to talk to you about was you and Brendan had a talk and conversation about guys like Lima and other guys having competition with top guys.
00:36:12.000And I think the same thing about 1FC. I still maintain to this day, Mighty Mouse is probably the best pound-for-pound fighter on the planet.
00:36:19.000I mean, Jon Jones has faced stiffer competition because there's stiffer competition in the light heavyweight division.
00:36:23.000But the way Mighty Mouse was running through the division, the way Mighty Mouse would just not get hit, the expression of martial arts, in my opinion, when I watched him, I've never seen anybody more impressive.
00:36:35.000So what's your take on him being traded then?
00:36:38.000I think they offered him a tremendous amount of money at one, and the flyweight division has never been a moneymaker for the UFC, and Henry Cejudo beat him in a very close decision, and I think they just came to a position where Mighty Mouse was like, look, I'm not going to make as much money in the next fight because I lost, but one FC is going to pay me X amount of times more than that.
00:37:01.000And they gave him a huge contract, man.
00:37:14.000I think it's great that the athletes have options.
00:37:16.000I think the competition is great for the UFC. When you see someone rise and someone start smashing people over there and everybody goes, hey, that guy might be the best 170-pounder in the world, that's good for everybody.
00:37:32.000We get to find out who's the number one in the world.
00:37:34.000That's what it's supposed to be all about.
00:37:35.000And the more competition there is, the more big organizations there are, and the more places that athletes go, it's way better for the fighters.
00:37:43.000And that has to be taken into consideration.
00:37:45.000Yeah, so I worked for one for a while, and I work for Bellator now, but I was doing case-side commentary for them.
00:37:50.000And I called a couple of Timothy Nastukin's fights, the guy that knocked out.
00:38:48.000For him to beat down Eddie Alvarez like that, you're talking about Eddie Alvarez, a guy who's notoriously one of the toughest fucking guys in the sport, period.
00:38:56.000And that was a real wake-up call for a lot of people.
00:39:29.000They're also in other countries everywhere else.
00:39:32.000I do know that there's a lot of top talented guys in Sweden and Switzerland that just never get to play because there's not an MMA market there really.
00:39:49.000And when I heard that he was fighting, when I heard Eddie was fighting Nassouk, I was like, oh shit.
00:39:56.000I said either Eddie's going to be able to get him down and get on top, because he does tend to fade a little bit.
00:40:02.000Nassouk gets into the second and third round.
00:40:05.000But if he can't get him down in that first round, I say he's going to get knocked out.
00:40:08.000I love Eddie, but he got a little chinny at some points.
00:40:12.000Not to the point where he gets knocked out, but he's always been rocked, comes back, and then fucks people up.
00:40:18.000But this is a guy that I'd seen him just starch guys.
00:40:21.000I mean, he fought this guy, what was his name, something full along, and there was talk and conversation about this guy was going to knock out Timothy.
00:40:30.000I mean, it was almost like an Alistair Overeem type knockout, you know, when Ngannou snapped his head back.
00:40:39.000And so when I see guys like him, and there's other guys that are in these organizations all around, like to me, Patricio Pitbull is probably the best 145-pounder in the world.
00:40:52.000But I've talked about this before with Big John, is that styles make matchups.
00:40:57.000And Big John has talked to me about being in the cage, roughing Max's fights, and he said Volkanovski will give him problems.
00:41:08.000And sure enough, Volkanovski gave him problems.
00:41:11.000He said, that will let me know how good Patricio Pitbull would do against Max Holloway.
00:41:16.000The speed, the wrestling, the power, all those things Patricio has.
00:41:21.000And to me, Patricio is better than Volkanovski just from what I can see, not from the max fight, but from a lead up to all the fights.
00:41:28.000So I take guys like Lima, I take guys like Patricio who knocked out Michael Chandler at 155 pounds, I take those guys and I'll put those guys against, not just UFC guys, one guys, all these guys, all day long.
00:41:40.000These guys are nasty and they're tough.
00:41:44.000So there's Patricio, which is the older brother at 155, and then there's Patricio, who's at 145, and he's also now the 155-pound champ.
00:41:52.000But to me, look, to me, he now, like when you talk about Henry Cejudo, guys attach themselves to guys because they can make themselves better.
00:42:01.000I'm not going to go train and stake my claim with someone unless I know the two of us are making each other better.
00:42:06.000That's his main training partner, Henry Cejudo.
00:42:08.000And that's Henry Cejudo's his main training partner.
00:42:11.000Juan Archuleta was on like a 19-fight win streak and then faced him.
00:42:16.000Juan Archuleta didn't look like the same Juan Archuleta when he got in there.
00:42:20.000And when guys are that good at that next level, that's what happens.
00:42:23.000They make somebody look like they don't belong in there.
00:45:39.000But the thing is, that was when UFC had first taken over Strikeforce, and I was sitting there cage-sized, and I'm thinking to myself, this is hands down the greatest MMA one-round fight I've ever seen in my life.
00:47:11.000I trained with Frank for years and I'm like, I'm in his guard and he's like, come on Josh, get up, throw punches, do something, I'm gonna fucking sub you.
00:47:26.000Frank's thing was always be in the best shape so you could put, like when he beat Tito.
00:47:30.000Just put that pace on him, and Tito couldn't keep up, and then he finished him.
00:47:33.000Yeah, Frank was not the same guy when he fought Nick at that time, but let's be real, at that time, it was awesome to see somebody like Nick do that, because Nick, though, if you recall, at the end of the fight, he picks Frank up.
00:47:48.000And that's why people talk to me all the time about my fight with Nate, and I say, look, man, I have nothing but respect for both those guys.
00:48:56.000But he's going to hit you twice as much and you're never going to get to breathe.
00:48:59.000And he's going to stay on top of you, and he's going to talk to you the whole time, so he's going to fuck with you psychologically, he's going to disrupt your breathing by constantly hitting you, and then once he realizes you're hurt, then he's digging into the body, then he's putting it on you.
00:49:11.000And on top of that, black belt jiu-jitsu skills, really good wrestling takedown defense, fucking chin made of iron, and an unstoppable will.
00:49:19.000Like, his will to beat you was just unstoppable.
00:49:22.000When Nick was at the top in Strikeforce, to this day, I think he's one of the best fighters that's ever done it.
00:51:43.000But obviously, Khabib would like to keep the fight on the ground, press against the fence, doing work, what he's done, and continues to work and does what he does best.
00:51:54.000Look, for me, I feel like the only way that Tony wins is by a cut.
00:52:20.000So if you're hanging out, if Khabib doesn't put the placement of his head in the right spot, it could be a really, really tough night for him.
00:53:23.000So it was like right there, and then he cut me with a good elbow when I stepped in on one, but the two Mercedes-Benz cuts were from him with wrist control and him elbowing me from his guard.
00:53:31.000If Khabib gets put into his guard, it could end up being a tough fight because cuts...
00:53:37.000Cuts happen, and when they do happen, and you have a shaved head, there's nothing stopping them from flowing right into your eyes.
00:53:44.000Your eyebrows are not going to stop all that blood.
00:53:47.000And if you recall, remember the Joe Daddy Stevenson and Eads Edwards fights?
00:53:52.000There's an Adam Piccolotti fight as well in Bellator where he had cut the guy on the top of the head, and literally he gets a rear neck and chokes him, and you see blood go everywhere.
00:54:00.000And I'm just thinking to myself, In a fight where you shave your head or your hair is always really short, it's not going to look good to the judges or to the doctor and things like that.
00:57:33.000I get back to the room, you know, later today and I'll get on the computer, look at my computer, you know, look at my cameras like how you have here.
00:57:38.000You see, hey, everything's okay, everything's going good.
00:58:34.000So you just got to learn to manage your money and budget your money and figure out things to supplement the income during the times that are slow.
00:59:15.000So there's got to be something you're going to do for the rest of your life to make an income.
00:59:18.000And when you're focused singularly on one thing, being the best fighter that you can be, it's very difficult to even imagine a future without fighting for a lot of these guys.
00:59:28.000So this is the advice that I gave myself.
00:59:32.000So my last fight was against Patricio Pitbull, which is Patricio's brother.
01:00:08.000Whatever it is you're doing in fighting, if you're going to move and do something else, then you need to leave it behind.
01:00:14.000You have to approach it with the same intensity that you approach your fighting career.
01:00:17.000And the problem is fighters don't do that.
01:00:19.000Fighters that leave the sport or are going to retire, they're done fighting, they don't do that.
01:00:23.000They keep hanging on to, I'm going to go to the gym every day, I see all the boys, I'm going to go to the gym every day and hit mitts with my trainer.
01:00:38.000If I call up Javier tomorrow, if he's in town, hey, I want to hit mitts tomorrow at, say, 630. All right, let me move some guys around for you.
01:00:44.000I only got about five minutes to meet you.
01:02:24.000And I don't mean like you gotta leave it behind.
01:02:27.000You just gotta come back to it later when you're established doing something else.
01:02:30.000You gotta find the next stage of your life, the next chapter.
01:02:34.000Well, the hardest thing, I feel like realistically the hardest thing is like you're trying to find something that supplemented the income that you were making.
01:02:42.000Joe, it takes me a whole year now of work of all four of these other companies to make what I was making in one fight or a fight and a half.
01:03:02.000Like, Henzo Gracie is a huge school in New York City, makes a shit ton of money, and, you know, got there from his career in fighting and jiu-jitsu, and figured out how to make more money than he ever made in his entire fighting career every year just doing that.
01:03:18.000But he also had to line himself up with great people.
01:06:45.000Because, you know, look, there was a lot...
01:06:47.000There was some girls that I knew that were ring girls and when they first started on they weren't as beautiful as they are now as they've gotten a little bit older.
01:06:58.000The other thing as well is sometimes though they were pretty with natural looks when they started and now all of a sudden they've got so much work done they don't even look like the same person.
01:08:22.000I mean, boxing had it with George Foreman and a little bit with Roy Jones Jr., but for the most part, the people that are doing commentary, they were analysts, you know?
01:08:30.000And, you know, you'd have, like, one fighter.
01:08:32.000But the guys sitting around the table talking about what they think about these matchups and what they think could go down, that's very valuable insight to the fans, too.
01:08:42.000It enhances the experience for the fans and provides...
01:08:47.000George Foreman, to me, it was one of my favorites because he had the best line ever when he told Larry Merchant, you see fighting, you don't know fighting.
01:08:53.000And that, to me, just let everyone know I'm going to put you in your place without actually throwing a punch.
01:09:10.000I love doing what I do and I gotta tell you, I've been definitely blessed the fact that I owe a big majority of my career to Scott Coker because these are things that sure I had to audition for.
01:09:20.000I still had to get out there and do what they asked me to do.
01:09:25.000When it came down to the audition, you have to be able to nail it.
01:09:27.000And I was lucky enough that they were like, you're good enough, we'll give you a try.
01:09:32.000But I feel that the reason I think why it worked out so well is situations like this.
01:09:39.000I was already comfortable being in front of the mic.
01:09:42.000This is one of the things that I got from Brendan when I went on his show the first time on Big Brown Breakdown.
01:09:49.000I'm like, you know, talk to me about how this whole thing did and how it all started for you.
01:09:53.000And he goes, Josh, just look at this microphone as if it's a rep.
01:09:56.000Every time you're in front of this microphone, it's a rep that you're getting for the shows that you're going to do.
01:10:01.000And so when I get now in front of the microphone and I'm holding it there and I'm talking with Jay Glazer and Chael and whoever else, whatever fighters...
01:10:10.000One of the hardest things to do is listen to what the hell they're saying.
01:10:15.000This is why I admire what you do so well.
01:10:18.000You're talking to me and I have to listen to you and you're listening to everything I say so you can come back with an answer.
01:10:23.000Most people already have a question in their head they're going to ask and they don't care what you're going to say.
01:10:28.000And so when you're talking to a fighter, they generally will...
01:10:48.000You have to be able to listen and you gotta be able to respond and if you're not listening, you're just talking at that person, the people at home are going, this is awkward and they don't like it.
01:10:58.000Yeah, because now I'm just artificially putting in questions that you weren't even talking about.
01:11:32.000It was like one of those scenarios and situations.
01:11:35.000But we did that and then there was some other stuff too where they had someone, Goldie, do something and I had to answer questions with him.
01:11:43.000There was a lot of things that came along.
01:12:39.000And then when we do rehearsals for the shows, he does this walk down where he walks and introduces all of Bellator and like, hey, fans, everything, live.
01:15:22.000Yeah, in the beginning, I was like, eh, you know, eh, you know.
01:15:24.000But then as he started calling more fights, and as he started...
01:15:27.000And I think when I started seeing some of the front camera angles that the UFC does for your guys' reaction, that's when I actually started really liking him.
01:16:04.000I kid you not, from the first day, we worked together, we meshed, and he was great.
01:16:08.000And he was like, hey man, I don't know any of the submissions, I don't know this and all that.
01:16:12.000I said, let me focus on that, you worry about selling, you know, boom, this shit happened, you know?
01:16:18.000And so, after the very, we did the very first fight, and he tried to, he said something about a guillotine or something, and I was like, you, I said, don't, after the fight, I said, don't say that.
01:16:27.000I said, he was on his back, it's a rear naked.
01:16:30.000So it was just one of those situations.
01:17:55.000It's about the guys that are in that cage.
01:17:57.000You've got to make them bigger than light.
01:18:00.000You've got to make them feel, not just feel, but I've got to sell them to the world that this guy is the best guy.
01:18:07.000And so when I have these conversations with you and when I'm on my podcast talking about guys like Patricio and Lima and MVP and Gegard Mousasi, those guys being as good as UFC and as good as 1FC guys, I say it because I mean it.
01:18:22.000And I'm not going to try to push somebody on somebody that I don't believe that in.
01:18:25.000I just truly think that there's guys all around the promotions, every promotion, that are the best, that are the best that we just haven't found.
01:18:33.000There's probably some guy up in the fucking mountains in Dagestan who's the world-class best guy in the world, but he just can't find his way to a paved road.
01:19:02.000And if they don't know how to get in, then they're stuck living in the woods somewhere and trying to...
01:19:08.000And if they don't see that clear path, they might not have the same level of commitment, so they might slack off or find something else to do.
01:19:16.000We started about this because Brendan was saying that if you're not in the UFC, you're not shit.
01:19:21.000I think that's a crazy perspective because when I look at, like we're talking about Lima, there are guys out there, I look at Lima and I go, he might be able to beat everybody.
01:19:51.000Let's not forget, when Roy left, he was still one of the top guys in the UFC. And just because, and look, I'm not trying to dig or dunk, but what Dana does very well is he develops the narrative and then the media runs with that narrative very well.
01:20:06.000So before they even put pen to paper, Dana's already wrote the story for them because he's already gave them the narrative.
01:20:15.000You and I were talking about it earlier with Connor.
01:20:20.000He made Donald Cerrone, he caused him to lose in 40 seconds.
01:20:24.000Dana came out and said, it's not that Connors are Cowboys bad, it's that Connors looked that good.
01:20:29.000That narrative was written for all the media to go ahead and follow because that's, before they wrote pen to paper, that's what the narrative was.
01:22:15.000It's not like basketball or football where the best guys are definitely playing in the NFL. There's so many different organizations, and I almost feel like fighters are hampered by names of these promotions.
01:22:27.000I almost think we'd all be better off if it was just MMA. To call it the UFC, The problem with that is it's great because everybody knows there's a very high quality to the UFC events.
01:22:48.000And whether it's in Bellator or 1FC, it's about how good are these matchups, how good are the fighters, what am I going to see?
01:22:59.000I believe it all started when credentials were taken away from top MMA media websites and saying, hey, we don't like what you say.
01:23:12.000You're not going to get a credential to get in.
01:23:15.000So then they replaced, they brought in...
01:23:18.000The other media websites, or whatever it was, USA Today, or whatever it was, other media sites that came in and just said it's all about UFC. It wasn't a sport anymore.
01:23:27.000It was a UFC brand, and we had the best fighters.
01:23:31.000And once you took away SureDog's credentials, all the other people that were doing...
01:23:36.000Companies at that time, they took those credentials away.
01:23:39.000Now whoever came in was like, well shit, if they're going to do it to those big time MMA websites, they would do the same shit to me if I don't toe the line.
01:23:48.000And that all of a sudden became like, fighters now, when you see them, it's all about UFC. It's not about anything that they're doing.
01:23:56.000You as a fighter, I think, look, even though it's an individual sport, and sure, you guys should be pumping your organization, I get it.
01:24:03.000But you should also be pumping you because after you're done, the UFC will be fine.
01:24:08.000You need to worry about building your brand, whatever it is you do to make you big.
01:24:16.000The organization does a lot for fighters.
01:24:17.000I'm not here to piss on any company or any organization.
01:24:20.000They need to make sure, though, that they're doing what they can to make as much money as they possibly can.
01:24:25.000To go back to the Strikeforce thing, I was making almost double what the guys were making in the top five in the UFC at the time.
01:24:32.000Now, there was a lot of talk about backroom bonuses and this and that, but I was privy to a couple of those back-year bonuses when we got bought out, and I went over there.
01:24:40.000They were not what I was making on the other side of the rope.
01:24:42.000So just to give you an example, when I came over, they were like, oh wow, you're making that.
01:24:47.000They were like, whoa, what do we got to do?
01:25:05.000I couldn't really negotiate at the time, and I was just like, shit, all right, well, let's play this out.
01:25:09.000So I took the least amount of fights I could possibly take, wondering if Bellator was going to be around long, and if Scott was going to stick with UFC, or if he was going to try to go do his own promotion again.
01:25:20.000You know, a lot of my relationships come from people that have been around.
01:25:26.000One of the best guys, if not the best guy I've ever done business with.
01:25:29.000I've learned a lot from watching him on how he approaches not just fighters, but the promotion itself.
01:25:35.000The one thing I admire the most about him is that you don't need to shit on other people like the UFC or one to say that my organization is the best.
01:25:45.000He takes that martial arts attitude and approach to a lot of things.
01:25:49.000I've never heard him say bad things about Dana White.
01:26:32.000Look, I'm obsessed with Patricio too, but I feel like right now 145 in the UFC is so fucking talent stacked.
01:26:39.000I'm comfortable with some of these matchups that I want to see.
01:26:42.000I really am interested in seeing a rematch between Volkanovski and Max Holloway.
01:26:48.000I think Max Holloway with just a few adjustments, checking those leg kicks and maybe a little bit more movement, he, you know, I think he can win that fight.
01:26:55.000But I think Volkanovski with a few adjustments might be able to put on an even better performance and now that he's beaten the goat featherweight, I mean, who knows?
01:27:03.000I mean, a lot of guys, you don't really see what they're capable of until they win the title and then you see the confidence take over.
01:27:08.000I mean, I think cross-promotion with all the champions would be fantastic.
01:27:13.000I mean, look, I'm a terrible business person.
01:27:23.000I don't think the way the UFC does is sort of an isolationist perspective.
01:27:28.000When Fedor was a champion, they would get bummed out that I kept mentioning him.
01:27:32.000When Fedor was over in Pride, and I was like, you gotta take into consideration Fedor Emelianenko.
01:27:37.000He might be the best fucking heavyweight alive.
01:27:39.000And there was a lot of guys over there that were fucking phenomenal fighters, and we absorbed a few of them, and there were some problems with that.
01:27:46.000Obviously, there was problems with the fact that the contracts that they got from Pride, a lot of them weren't real.
01:27:51.000So, you know, we thought we had Fedor and we didn't.
01:29:36.000Because even though he's not getting rich, but he's also making sure that young and up-and-coming fighters have a way to get their name out there and still fight at a high level.
01:29:45.000Bud Brutzman was one of the owners as well.
01:31:03.000No one like that ever won the title up until Boss.
01:31:06.000But that's like, so when Scott came in, he changed the logo to make it simple, like basically what Dana and Lorenzo and those guys did, basically made it simple like that.
01:32:06.000Not only is she jacked, her wrestling's gotten a lot better.
01:32:09.000And I need to remind you guys, her only two losses have been to Amanda Nunes and Ronda Rousey when Ronda Rousey was at the top of her game.
01:32:16.000Now, those two losses, those two were extremely early in her career.
01:32:19.000She's been on a tear ever since then, and she's been doing phenomenal.
01:32:22.000I've had, again, talking with John, him and I have talked, it's her confidence.
01:32:27.000Her confidence needs to be at a different level.
01:32:30.000Look at the fucking guns on that chick.
01:32:34.000Her striking, I think, is better than Cyborg.
01:32:51.000So if Julia can press her to the fence, get inside the clinch, make her that dirty, getting that dirty boxing, get rid of those loopy punches and be inside that pocket right there, then I think she's got a good chance.
01:33:02.000Well, after Cyborg got flatlined by Amanda Nunes, the whole game just changed.
01:33:32.000And when she got hit, I'm going to hit you back.
01:33:34.000She was thinking she was going to impose her will like she did against everyone else.
01:33:38.000And she's going to try to do the same thing to Julia Budd.
01:33:42.000It's a matter of how Julia Bud responds.
01:33:45.000And we're going to know, I think, in that first round whether Julia is going to rise to the occasion or if she's going to step back and let Cyborg dictate the pace like a lot of other girls have.
01:33:55.000I think with Amanda, when she pushed Amanda back, Amanda hit her and Cyborg got rocked and Amanda pressed forward and she thought she was going to hit her back and it became this exchange.
01:34:03.000It was a very sloppy fight, I think, from both sides.
01:34:07.000But Amanda has big dogs and was able to land the clean, good punches.
01:34:26.000People get rocked and the guy just comes in and smothers himself so much that nothing lands and the guy recovers and you're back to fighting.
01:34:33.000You know, when I knew that Amanda Nunes was a fucking dangerous, dangerous fighter, it was, first of all, the first round went, well, you know, there's a lot of fights where you saw it.
01:34:44.000You know, you started to see it with Kat Zingano.
01:34:47.000The first round, she almost had Kat Zingano out, but then she faded, and then she got put away later in the fight, which just shows how tough Kat Zingano is.
01:35:05.000And then when the Raquel Pennington fights an underlooked fight, because Raquel Pennington is as fucking tough as they come, that lady impresses the shit out of me.
01:35:15.000And the fact that she was able to stop her and beat her down before she stopped her.
01:35:20.000You realize she was on another level at that point in time.
01:35:24.000But still, in the Cyborg fight, I had questions.
01:35:26.000I was like, look what she did to Holly Holm.
01:35:47.000I just would have liked to have seen them do a second fight, because I think that Cyborg would have fought a smarter fight, and it would have been a different outcome.
01:35:57.000Yeah, she would have made the adjustments, not just made the adjustments, but we saw with Jermaine Deronomy when Jermaine fought her, that Amanda, as the fight goes on, she's not the same fighter.
01:36:03.000Why do you think that she decided to move over to Bellator?
01:36:07.000Why do you think she didn't pursue the rematch?
01:37:07.000They put out a video, Cyborg's boyfriend put out a video where she put words in Dana White's mouth, and they were fake.
01:37:15.000They mistranslated it on purpose, willfully, and then she had to apologize for it, and then the UFC was like, get the fuck out of here, you can't do that.
01:38:24.000Well, I just think it's a business decision.
01:38:25.000The UFC doesn't have any vested interest in blowing up Bellator and making them bigger.
01:38:29.000And Bellator would get bigger along the way.
01:38:31.000But I think Julia Bott hangs with any 145-pounder in the UFC, and I would like to see her fight in the UFC. I would like to see cross-promotion with her as well.
01:38:40.000I just feel like it's just one of those things where it's...
01:38:43.000It hampers the fans, because the athletes, they're just not going to face each other.
01:38:51.000We already saw a cross-promotion when UFC was basically asking, or I don't want to say begging, but they were trying to force the issue with Chuck Liddell fighting in Vanderlei.
01:39:04.000But they got fucked over because they actually sent Chuck over there, and then Pride didn't send anybody over here.
01:40:35.000I bet Aoki now is wishing he would have fought me because he got knocked out that night by a kickboxer because they made him fight a kickboxer.
01:44:24.000When he fought Minotauro, I remember Eddie Bravo and I were watching it, and they showed Minotauro ready, and they turned to Bob Stout and be like, Jesus!
01:44:34.000His head was here, and then his neck started right where his head crests.
01:44:39.000Like, his neck went all the way to the edge of his shoulders.
01:44:42.000Like, that is the biggest human being I've ever seen in my life.
01:44:45.000He goes, like, just from his ear to his shoulders.
01:46:24.000My arm was fully extended, he was belly down, I was belly down, and I'm like, I could hear my elbows going and I could just feel, you know when you feel the muscle kind of stretching and tearing a little bit?
01:46:35.000And then I just started pushing and I could hear them crystal clear.
01:46:42.000Dave Camarillo was like, in such like, can't believe this happened.
01:46:45.000He almost started walking back to the fucking, back to the locker room thinking that I was going to tap because I was trying to reach for the feet.
01:46:51.000And he's yelling, put the feet, put the, get the feet off your face.
01:46:54.000So I was able to push and wiggle it out.
01:46:56.000And when I wiggled it out, I swung around for the knee bar in the perfect position and was able to get the knee bar and the fight ended like that.
01:47:01.000It's like, I don't know, minute 20, minute 30, something like that.
01:47:04.000So, but it was one of those, you know, one of those things that they do in Japan where...
01:47:09.000The culture's just so different over there.
01:47:33.000I wonder if you get used to that, and then if you go to fight in the UFC, it must be overwhelming for Japanese guys that are used to fighting over there with that total quiet, and they come to Vegas, and it's like, just bleed, guys, with the fucking...
01:47:54.000It's such a crazy sport when you just think about the evolution of it.
01:47:58.000I mean, you started your career, I mean, you really are a pioneer, but you started your career, like, you're like a second wave guy.
01:48:05.000You're like, there was the first wave where no one knew what the fuck was going on, and then there was a second wave where guys were like complete martial artists that had a specialty background, yours being initially wrestling.
01:48:24.000And Max Holloway as well and some of these other guys.
01:48:27.000And when you see it now and you compare it to what the UFC was when you first started watching and first started competing, it's got to blow you away.
01:49:25.000I don't know if you know, but after he lost to Frank, he went up and trained with Frank so Frank could teach him how to get in shape and be as in good a shape as Frank was for their fight.
01:54:06.000The problem is I think the UFC feels like it would benefit Bellator, but it wouldn't benefit the UFC. Because the UFC can make many fights for Wonderboy.
01:55:29.000Now, if Conor was to go and fight somebody else and have a dominant performance against someone like a Justin Gaethje and get him out of there or against Usman, then you make that fight and it'll do more numbers.
01:55:39.000But not off of the 40 seconds we just saw.
01:56:07.000And you take the fights that fans want to see, or you have a board member of groups from each promotion that say, look, let's put this fight and this fight together, not our champions.
01:56:15.000And I'll bet you that that one card does double or triple what the best pay-per-view ever has done.
01:56:30.000I think the buzz and I also think the marketing dollars behind each promotion to help push it, they'll make it bigger than Conor and Khabib than anything.
01:57:59.000Give them 161. So if you match guys, if you match guys, like you say, Islam versus Chandler, if you match guys like, you know, these other, you match some of the Gegard, because there was a lot of talk, because Gegard was winning when he left the UFC, came over to Bellator.
01:58:16.000Beat Chris Weidman when Chris Weidman was on top of his game.
01:58:19.000So you take guys like Gegard, you match them against, you know, somebody over in the UFC, and you're taking these top guys, MVP and Steven Thompson.
01:58:27.000I think a stacked card like that Given the results from when we're talking about Japan, when they do their year-end show, is the number two in all of Japan for their TV viewerships.
01:58:41.000It's just some astronomical amount of numbers.
01:58:44.000I would imagine it'd be bigger than what Conor and Khabib did.
02:00:59.000He's one that people are not paying attention to.
02:01:02.000Speaking of dark horses, you got Calvin Cater at 145. He's the fucking dark horse at 145. When he was putting on Zabit in that third round, I was like, holy shit!
02:01:11.000If this is a fourth and fifth round, he might stop him.
02:02:16.000So he's got two flying knee knockouts in Bellator, and all the buzz around Henry Hoof's place is that some of the 55-pounders don't want to spar with him and train with him because he's fucking good.
02:02:25.000He's fast, he's long, he's lanky, and he's extremely good.
02:02:28.000I've seen videos of him training, and I've seen videos of him fighting.
02:03:03.000Also, two people, the guy that's fighting Patricio, Pedro Cavallo, who trains at SBG with the Cardinals, he's someone who's fucking really good as well.
02:03:12.000And I just look at these guys, and Adam Weischel, or Daniel Weischel, he's another guy that's like, he's such a technician, just doesn't fight the part, because people want to see high-flying, flying knee knockouts like Adam Borch does, but...
02:04:03.000I said, not only do you, you're faster, you're a better wrestler than all these guys, and look, I got a lot of respect for Stipe and him and Stipe are friends, but I think wrestling-wise and fight-wise, he has a good chance to beat Stipe.
02:04:16.000Only because of his ability with his wrestling, his cardio, and his pace.
02:04:20.000The speed and everything, I think he could get in on him.
02:04:22.000Well, his striking got so much better and so smooth.
02:04:25.000And, you know, he just got better in the pocket.
02:04:28.000You know, after, like, particularly the Liotta Machida loss, that was a...
02:04:32.000You know, a big thing because he came charging in and Machida caught him in and clipped him with a counter shot and put him away.
02:04:38.000You know, there was some moments where you're like, man, maybe Bader's time has passed.
02:04:42.000And then all of a sudden he has this resurgence and starts doing better and better and then goes on to become in Bellator like a fucking demon.
02:04:51.000Well, you got to remember that fighting is a confidence thing.
02:04:53.000As you win one fight, you win another and you win another.
02:06:18.000I mean, like I said, Jon Jones is an anomaly.
02:06:21.000You get those type of guys that come in.
02:06:24.000But I also think that now that the money's gotten better, you're going to start seeing athletes that would have went to football and baseball and basketball, they're going to stop doing that and saying, hey...
02:06:33.000These guys are making this much money.
02:06:43.000And I think you're going to start seeing some of those athletes that may be a benchwarmer in the NFL or may be a benchwarmer in baseball or having to go through the D-League process.
02:07:38.000And I was really impressed with him in that fight because Volkov used to be Bellator champion, top of the food chain, heavyweight, big, long, tall guy, difficult to fuck with.
02:07:47.000You know, it's like he knocked out Fabrizio Verdum, former heavyweight champion.
02:07:51.000So, like, Volkov is very skillful and awkward as hell, man.
02:09:19.000Well, I was impressed with his durability against Alistair and his patience and the fact that he landed that haymaker right hook with, like, what, 15 seconds to go or something?
02:11:26.000I was wrestling at AKA, and I doubled in this guy, and he hit the ground first, and when his head bounced up and hit me in the mouth, I wasn't wearing a mouthpiece.
02:11:33.000So my tooth came all the way through the front of my lip.
02:11:37.000And it didn't look that bad, but it looked nasty.
02:11:40.000There's something about your mouth heals quick, too.
02:12:58.000He's been good at moments, but he's also been bad.
02:13:01.000The second fight with Kane and then the third fight with Kane really did him in.
02:13:05.000Yeah, and so he just hasn't been the same, but he's evolving, I think, with what the smaller guys are doing to exploit the heavier guys that just don't move as much.
02:13:13.000I feel like that calf kick has changed the game.
02:13:16.000The very first time I ever saw that thing being used was Masvidal.
02:14:26.000You saw a lot of guys winning that way.
02:14:28.000Which is funny because when you take MMA and people need to remember what it stands for, and people for the longest time are like, oh, let's just wrestle and let's do Muay Thai.
02:14:39.000It was like, okay, we'll do a little bit of boxing and some wrestling.
02:19:04.000It should be that the wrestler's forced to roll to their back to avoid the knee, to get the fuck away.
02:19:10.000It doesn't make any sense that in the center of the octagon, you wouldn't be able to hold on and knee someone in the head.
02:19:16.000Look, I'm John Fitch, one of my best friends, okay?
02:19:20.000But to watch how he fought Rory McDonald, like, for the fans' sake, it's not a fun fight to watch.
02:19:26.000Like, you grab the leg, and the guy, like, pushes out and limp legs out, and then you chase him on your hands and knees, and you're fishing for the legs.
02:19:46.000The whole position, the whole exchange changes.
02:19:48.000Yep, you're going to see them start sprawling, knee in the head, sprawling.
02:19:51.000And then the other thing as well, look, if the wrestler is a good, obviously there are a lot of good wrestlers in the sport, but let's just say the knee misses and he's able to grab the leg.
02:24:31.000What they look like, honestly, when I see pitch, when they're going to all look like, if you pull up a picture of hockey players before they wear masks, that's what they're going to look like.
02:25:51.000And you also got to have someone that's there with you and is willing to be with you through it all, not just through you when you were making all the money.
02:26:07.000Or they want to live that lifestyle at the time, whether it's beach parties or pool parties in Vegas or whatever it is.
02:26:14.000But when that's done or when you're not the selfie king anymore with all the fans at the pool parties, What happens when you're actually calling to try and make reservations to get a table versus them calling you and saying, hey, we have a table here for you at the pool.
02:26:27.000Things change, man, and you have to remember that.
02:26:30.000And so when that changes, what are you going to do after that?
02:26:33.000And it's not going to always be glamorous.
02:26:36.000I think you've just got to come to reality that there's a ton of life after fighting.
02:27:33.000It's almost like the organization should maybe have some sort of seminars for fighters to try to give them some sort of advice or give them some framework to think about how to pursue your life after fighting.
02:27:44.000Yeah, I've talked to Chael about this a couple times.
02:27:48.000I said, man, with Brendan, you know, with Chael, you guys, those two guys, I feel like people can say what they want about Brendan and Chael, but what they've done is they've done things to benefit themselves in a very positive light.
02:28:03.000And I love being around people like that because even...
02:28:06.000In just a casual conversation, you can learn a lot from them.
02:28:19.000All the stories that I've heard from him while doing our show, it's just...
02:28:24.000It's so much knowledge that he has from the sport, period.
02:28:27.000From the way it was started, the way he got brought into it, to the fights that he's called and how it all went down.
02:28:33.000And I know there's probably two sides to every story, but it's like at least you get to hear certain parts of what happened throughout the sport.
02:28:42.000And I love hearing, I love absorbing all that.
02:28:45.000And it's great to be surrounded by people like that.
02:28:49.000Yeah, it would be nice if there was a clear path that fighters could take.
02:28:54.000Again, it is nice that Bellator and the UFC are using fighters for analyst roles and things like that.
02:29:01.000But yeah, fighters have to approach it like there's a whole new world that you're entering into.
02:29:06.000Approach it the same way you approach fighting.
02:29:08.000Throw your everything into it if you want to be successful.
02:29:11.000It's funny you say that because I've worked with a lot of people doing analyst stuff and You already know what I'm going to say.
02:30:08.000Two is you're trying to make them the most dynamic, the best fighter that's ever stopped in the cage, even though they're on the prelims of the prelims.
02:30:47.000I started doing one with John, and then Sammy and I kind of, Sammy was basically doing some stuff with his wife and family and stuff, so we just kind of decided to part ways, and I started working, started filming more with John.
02:30:56.000And when you guys first started, did you always do it?
02:30:59.000You said you're doing it through FaceTime, right?
02:31:56.000Yeah, so we just FaceTime him in, and then my producer, we call him Podcast Dave, so he does...
02:32:04.000He basically just like, he screenshots it and just saves it and then John also does it on his side and he sends him the video and then we record the audio and then John records the audio so he syncs up the audio to both so it matches.
02:32:35.000I was telling him before you walked in, I said, hey, don't be surprised if I turn to you just because I want to be one of those other, like some of the other guests that just turn and go, hey, Jamie, pull this up.
02:38:14.000If I was the man who made the fucking calls...
02:38:18.000I know they want to do him versus Khabib versus Conor, but Masvidal versus Conor would be fucking giant.
02:38:27.000When they had all the fighters and they put a camera on them at the event, when they put that camera on Masvidal, the pop from the audience was fucking bonkers.
02:39:29.000If I'm at home, I haven't seen enough of Conor to show that he belongs in a cage with Khabib yet.
02:39:36.000But him and Masvidal, if he starches or beats Masvidal, That would be the next fight, it would be Khabib and him.
02:39:42.000The real question, if he wants to make it to 55 again, some guys, especially when they get into their 30s, they just do better when they're not cutting as much weight.
02:39:54.000He's probably walking around $1.85 or something like that.
02:39:57.000And for him to get down to 70 is not that hard.
02:40:00.000For him to get down to 55 is a long, laborious process.
02:40:03.000Yeah, Dana said that he only walks around 170. Really?
02:40:06.000Yeah, he said by the time he fights tonight, I was watching some of the press or stuff, he's like, he'd probably be 167. I'm 195 and I stand next to Connor.
02:42:02.000It kind of, I think, is hindering, and you brought me up on this before, because I had heard through a lot of people in the UFC that they were talking and negotiating, trying to think about ways to bring in 165. Yes.
02:42:13.000And you have too many tweeners, and why do we have a 15-pound gap for the 55 with all the talent that is there?
02:43:43.000And he still made him look bad, finished him out.
02:43:46.000The couple fights before that, look, these guys are asking for it, but his fight in Italy, that guy was a last minute replacement also, and that guy was 13-1.
02:46:10.000He's got a weird style, you know, that point-fighting style and then the successful transition from point-fighting to kickboxing.
02:46:18.000You know, I mean, he was a phenomenal kickboxer.
02:46:20.000And then, if we go from kickboxing to MMA, it's very interesting.
02:46:24.000Yeah, I think when guys feel like they've hit the top at whatever they're doing and there's nowhere else to go, let's go wherever we can to make as much money as we can.
02:46:32.000He's always had a relationship with Scott Coker.
02:46:53.000Because his first fight was in Strikeforce, and he had a relationship with him.
02:46:57.000Well, when Kane says his back's all fucked up, and I'm sure it is, but then you see him do the lucha libre, jumps up and scissors this guy's head and does fucking flips.
02:49:44.000Brennan used to give me this whole spiel because I was on his show Below the Belt as well.
02:49:49.000And we had this conversation right before the fight happened.
02:49:52.000And he goes, he's like, oh, if he fights the way he fought against Ale Quinta and this and that, I'm like, it's completely different.
02:50:00.000You're trying to shoot, for Khabib to shoot on Ale Quinta, who's like 5'7", you know, it's a different game than shooting on somebody who's 5'11".
02:50:33.000You're not the same fighter you were when you showed up in Vegas or wherever the fight was supposed to be thinking you're going to fight this person.
02:50:39.000And so I cut him a little slack in that fight.
02:50:42.000And then fighting someone like Aliquita who's a fucking savage.
02:51:09.000Khabib did the dropping because when you make someone fear your takedown that much, your natural reaction is to drop your hands real quick to try to get the underhooks.
02:51:17.000He threw that right hand like a fastball, too.