The Joe Rogan Experience - JRE MMA Show #89 with Rafael Lovato Jr

00:00:00.000 Three, two...

00:00:03.000 Alright, what's up?

00:00:05.000 How are you, brother?

00:00:05.000 I'm doing great.

00:00:06.000 It's great to be back.

00:00:07.000 Great to see you, man.

00:00:08.000 Congratulations on winning the title.

00:00:09.000 Appreciate that.

00:00:10.000 Fantastic achievement.

00:00:11.000 I mean, beating Gegard Mousasi, who's, you know, top flight, one of the best in the sport, for sure.

00:00:16.000 And to beat him and win the Bellator middleweight title, that's...

00:00:20.000 Got to make you feel happy.

00:00:22.000 It was surreal.

00:00:22.000 It was something else.

00:00:24.000 And when you hear the story about everything, man, it takes it to another level.

00:00:30.000 Yeah, well, this is why you're here.

00:00:31.000 We're here to talk about that.

00:00:34.000 And I guess you should probably just explain what's going on.

00:00:40.000 Well, I guess I'll just kind of take you through the order of events here.

00:00:46.000 You know, that was my 10th fight, fighting for the Bellator title.

00:00:51.000 And in all my other nine fights previously, it was never required for me to get a brain scan done.

00:01:01.000 Just due to the different states that I was fighting in at the time, the commissions there didn't require it.

00:01:07.000 In the US, it's California and New York, and then Europe requires a brain scan.

00:01:14.000 We were originally scheduled to fight in January at the Forum in California.

00:01:20.000 The same event that just happened this past Saturday night.

00:01:24.000 And so we were going to fight 2019 at the Forum in January.

00:01:29.000 And that fight got postponed.

00:01:31.000 Musasi was injured.

00:01:32.000 And we eventually got rescheduled to fight in June in London.

00:01:39.000 So I already had a brain scan scheduled.

00:01:43.000 For December to get approved for that fight in January.

00:01:48.000 But I got the news about the fight getting canceled like the week of that scan a couple days before.

00:01:55.000 So I canceled it.

00:01:56.000 I said I don't need to go get that done now.

00:01:59.000 And so fast forward, you know, I basically stayed in camp the whole year training, you know, with that fight on my mind all the way from November when I started the first camp for the fight in January.

00:02:13.000 Into the new year, waiting for the new date.

00:02:19.000 And it was March that I got the word that we were going to fight in June in London.

00:02:28.000 And so I was basically training all year and I just picked right back up into camp.

00:02:34.000 And fast forward on into...

00:02:39.000 The very beginning of May, I was already a good month into the serious camp, and I was just getting ready to fly to Brazil, Curitiba, to get into the hardest phase of camp.

00:02:57.000 I was going to be there for three weeks.

00:03:00.000 And I had to get my MRI done, you know, and I wanted to get it done before I went to Brazil, just to check it off the list.

00:03:08.000 So this was actually the week I had two good buddies of mine, Jake Mapes and Sam Alvey, were in Oklahoma training with me.

00:03:18.000 And we had a great week of training.

00:03:20.000 Everything's going really, really well.

00:03:23.000 And it's Thursday.

00:03:26.000 And so I go get my brain scan done to get that done before I went to Brazil.

00:03:32.000 And I'm in there, and we get through the whole process, and the machine is done.

00:03:39.000 It's not operating anymore.

00:03:43.000 But they haven't called me out of the room yet.

00:03:45.000 And I could kind of just sense something was going on.

00:03:50.000 So finally, they say, okay, come on out.

00:03:53.000 And the radiologist...

00:03:55.000 With really no candor or an easy, soft way of saying it was like, dude, have you seen your brain before?

00:04:08.000 There's some stuff in here you need to see.

00:04:11.000 And he, you know, pulls me into the room and shows me on the screen, he's like pointing out these, you know, look like little balls.

00:04:20.000 Obviously it looked like something was wrong.

00:04:22.000 It didn't look like a normal scan, but I'm not, I don't know, you know?

00:04:25.000 Balls like? 0.98

00:04:26.000 Like...

00:04:27.000 Shades of discoloration according to the scan itself.

00:04:35.000 You could see that it wasn't normal.

00:04:39.000 And he didn't even know what it was at the time.

00:04:42.000 And he was like, let me look this over tonight.

00:04:45.000 And I had my paper, you know, to get signed off that everything looks clear and normal.

00:04:51.000 And, you know, he was just like, you know, he asked me if I had any concussions and if I've had any issues.

00:04:59.000 And I said, no, no.

00:05:01.000 And he's like, well, this doesn't look right and you shouldn't be doing what you're doing.

00:05:05.000 I'm like, okay, so are you going to sign this paper?

00:05:09.000 And he's like, no.

00:05:10.000 And he's like, come back tomorrow and I'm going to give you some more information.

00:05:13.000 I say, okay.

00:05:14.000 So I go back Friday and he tells me that, you know, he did some research and he believes that I have a disease called cavernoma.

00:05:26.000 He kind of hits me with that.

00:05:28.000 I had no idea what Kavernoma was.

00:05:32.000 And he says, look, I'm not signing this paper.

00:05:36.000 You need to go see a specialist and get this looked at.

00:05:41.000 But as far as I know, you should not fight.

00:05:44.000 You should not be fighting.

00:05:46.000 And then the next morning I fly to Brazil for my camp, you know, to go down there for the hard sparring and everything that I like to do, you know, stuff we talked about last time.

00:05:57.000 And so I'm like going, you know, in the airport getting ready to go to Brazil for this portion of my camp, for this fight that is like the biggest fight of my life, you know.

00:06:09.000 I've already waited an extra six months for it.

00:06:11.000 I've been training for it all year.

00:06:14.000 And, you know, at this point, I'm like, just in shock of what is going on my health.

00:06:21.000 And, you know, I saw my Googling everything that I can about cavernoma and trying to understand what it is.

00:06:28.000 And basically, it's a disease where probably like, I probably got it from one of my parents, it's a it's normally a hereditary disease.

00:06:37.000 And your brain forms these extra blood vessels.

00:06:42.000 And these blood vessels grow and they can accumulate and sort of bundle up together into balls.

00:06:50.000 Almost like weeds or vines.

00:06:54.000 They wrap up together.

00:06:57.000 And these blood vessels are very prone to bleeding.

00:07:01.000 Now they don't bleed so much in an instance where it could cause a hemorrhage.

00:07:09.000 It's more like a slow, they use the term oozing effect.

00:07:13.000 So it oozes blood out over time.

00:07:17.000 Very little.

00:07:18.000 Little by little.

00:07:20.000 And as they accumulate, those balls are much more susceptible to bleeding.

00:07:29.000 And reading about it, while I'm getting ready to go, I'm flying to Brazil, I'm in the airport, I'm taking off.

00:07:40.000 There's so many extreme cases of this disease where People have to have multiple surgeries to get them removed, seizures, vision issues, people going to comas.

00:07:57.000 And then, of course, worst, worst case is even death.

00:08:01.000 And obviously, Googling and not talking to a specialist and just kind of doing my own thing is not the best way to get information.

00:08:10.000 And so I just have all these thoughts running in my head.

00:08:13.000 About, you know, what I'm dealing with in my health and like, okay, uh, now I'm going to, you know, uh, Brazil to, you know, train and spar and, and I have this fight and I'm, uh, right now I don't have anyone signing off in this paper, you know, is this going to happen?

00:08:29.000 What's going on?

00:08:30.000 Like all these questions.

00:08:32.000 And, um, so I get there and, you know, uh, At this point, the only one that knows is my girl and I'm confiding in her and I'm just talking to her and she's shocked.

00:08:45.000 I've never had any issues.

00:08:46.000 I don't even really get headaches.

00:08:48.000 I've never been knocked out.

00:08:51.000 There's never been a time in my life where I thought, Man, I should get my head looked at.

00:08:56.000 I think something could be wrong.

00:08:59.000 And so I'm talking with her, and then I have my coach, Mauricio.

00:09:05.000 He's my head MMA coach and my Muay Thai teacher.

00:09:10.000 And he goes with me down to Kutichiba, and we train there at his brother's academy, Andre Dita, at Dita's academy, Evolue Sound Thai.

00:09:19.000 And, you know, we fly Saturday, arrive Sunday, start training Monday, and I'm just like, I'm trying to train this first day, and I'm just like, what am I doing?

00:09:26.000 You know, and I'm getting hit in the head, and I'm like, man, am I slowly killing myself right here?

00:09:31.000 Like, you know, what am I training for at this point?

00:09:34.000 I'm not approved.

00:09:36.000 Like, what am I going to do, you know?

00:09:39.000 And so we talk it over, and we're like, okay, obviously, we need to get more opinions, you know?

00:09:47.000 And I'm down in Brazil for three weeks, basically all of May.

00:09:51.000 The fight was June 21st or 23rd, something like that.

00:09:57.000 And so I'm spending all of May there.

00:10:01.000 So I need to see some Brazilian doctors, some doctors down here in Koduchiba.

00:10:07.000 And so we just begin the process.

00:10:10.000 Let's get a prescription. 0.72

00:10:12.000 Do you speak Portuguese?

00:10:13.000 I'm not 100% fluent, but I can get around.

00:10:17.000 I can do pretty well on my own down there just from all the trips that I've done over the years.

00:10:23.000 So, you know, thankfully, Mauricio, his brother Dita, they have so many connections down there, you know.

00:10:32.000 Being who they are and the history that they have, teaching martial arts, you get to know everybody.

00:10:41.000 And so they were able to make things happen quick for me.

00:10:46.000 We saw a doctor, got a prescription for another MRI. Get scheduled to get that MRI done, which happens on Friday, the end of my first week there.

00:10:57.000 So I'm going that whole week, training, trying to stay positive, but I'm wondering, what am I doing?

00:11:10.000 What's going on?

00:11:10.000 You know what I mean?

00:11:11.000 I can't begin to describe the thoughts and emotions that I can't imagine.

00:11:19.000 I mean, it'd be so distracting during sparring as well.

00:11:22.000 Oh, yes.

00:11:22.000 Yes.

00:11:23.000 And, you know, they go harder down there.

00:11:26.000 To put it mildly.

00:11:27.000 Yeah.

00:11:28.000 That place is known for some of the most ruthless killers to ever come out of Brazil. 1.00

00:11:34.000 100%.

00:11:35.000 I mean, that's shoot the box.

00:11:36.000 Exactly.

00:11:37.000 Yeah.

00:11:39.000 I'm not sleeping well.

00:11:41.000 I'm, you know, I'm an emotional wreck, basically.

00:11:45.000 I'm calling my girl over FaceTime, you know, multiple times a day.

00:11:50.000 We're looking at each other on the screen.

00:11:52.000 I'm crying.

00:11:54.000 I'm confiding in Mauricio and Shanji Hiberto was also there with me.

00:11:58.000 I had an Airbnb with Shanji, so thankfully I wasn't on my own 24-7 outside of the academy.

00:12:06.000 He always stays with his family.

00:12:09.000 And, you know, I'm just like, man, when Shanji arrived that Monday or Tuesday and I tell him what's going on, I'm just like, dude, I'm a mess right now.

00:12:19.000 Like, I don't know.

00:12:21.000 You know, I'm just so uncertain of my health and what's going on.

00:12:28.000 And, you know, like...

00:12:32.000 Man, I just can't put it into words.

00:12:35.000 But I'm trying to stay positive.

00:12:38.000 I'm trying to stay positive.

00:12:40.000 And we get through that first week, get the MRI, the new MRI down there in Brazil.

00:12:46.000 So then we have the Brazilian MRI to take to Brazilian doctors.

00:12:50.000 And so then the second week, we start seeing neurologists and specialists to get their opinion and see what they have to say.

00:13:05.000 And that was the hardest week ever because multiple doctors were all saying no.

00:13:18.000 When you look at the scan right off the bat, it doesn't look good.

00:13:24.000 Do you have a picture of it?

00:13:25.000 Uh, man, actually, I don't have, sorry, I don't have one with me right now.

00:13:35.000 But, you know, you just see these gray, like, little shades of circles.

00:13:42.000 A lot of them?

00:13:43.000 Well, I have multiple, and most of them are very small, like popcorn size.

00:13:51.000 And, you know, those aren't that dangerous, at least yet.

00:13:55.000 But there is one accumulation on the backside of my, the right side of my head, you know, back here.

00:14:04.000 And that has built up.

00:14:06.000 And it looks, it looks big.

00:14:10.000 Like how big?

00:14:14.000 Probably somewhere between a baseball size, like golf ball to baseball, in between there.

00:14:22.000 It's pretty big.

00:14:24.000 But it's on the very outer rim.

00:14:28.000 So it's not...

00:14:32.000 In the middle of my brain.

00:14:33.000 It's on the outside.

00:14:34.000 So if you were to go right through my head, it could be right there.

00:14:39.000 You could essentially pull it out without having to go through too much stuff.

00:14:44.000 Is that something that might actually have to happen?

00:14:49.000 No, not now.

00:14:52.000 I'll fast forward to the doctors I end up seeing here in the States who clarify a lot of this, but But the doctors in Brazil all say the same thing.

00:15:03.000 Well, they're kind of just...

00:15:04.000 I mean, fighting already isn't good for your brain.

00:15:09.000 You know what I mean?

00:15:09.000 Getting hit in the head isn't good for your brain.

00:15:11.000 And I think just looking at it when you see it and then you know that I'm going to get hit in the head and what I do, you're automatically going to be like...

00:15:20.000 Hey, you know, there's already this extra bit of of danger that we're putting in to a dangerous situation.

00:15:29.000 Let's not let's not play.

00:15:31.000 Let's not roll the dice.

00:15:32.000 You know, let's not play that game.

00:15:34.000 And so we were getting multiple doctors saying no, you know, and even one was like, you know, they said that jujitsu could be dangerous.

00:15:48.000 That me getting my blood cut off like in a choke, you know, cutting off the circulation to my brain, that could be dangerous.

00:15:56.000 And so this week, I am literally not sleeping at all.

00:16:01.000 I am crying multiple times a day.

00:16:03.000 And I'm just like, man, what am I doing?

00:16:05.000 I'm going into the sparring, you know, and I'm training and I'm not going to get approved.

00:16:12.000 I'm not going to fight, you know?

00:16:13.000 And this has already been like a six, seven month training camp at this point, you know?

00:16:19.000 And it's for the belt.

00:16:20.000 It's my life's work.

00:16:22.000 It's everything for me, you know?

00:16:24.000 So I was just crushed day in, day out, trying to get through.

00:16:30.000 And on Thursday of that week, I'm doing MMA sparring.

00:16:38.000 I kind of had it coming.

00:16:39.000 I shouldn't have been going as hard as what I've been going, but I was trying to stay positive and stay ready.

00:16:47.000 What if I need to be ready for this fight?

00:16:50.000 It's Musashi.

00:16:51.000 I've got to be at my best.

00:16:53.000 And in reality, I was just training like garbage.

00:16:59.000 I was having my worst training camp, my worst fight camp, because of everything.

00:17:05.000 And on this day, I'm in my third round of MMA sparring and I strain my hamstring bad.

00:17:14.000 I go for like a double leg and the guy has a judo background.

00:17:18.000 He overhook like wizards me and goes for like a Uchimata, Haraya Goshi type of throw.

00:17:24.000 I'm wearing wrestling shoes.

00:17:25.000 I try to drop my hips so he doesn't elevate me.

00:17:29.000 And my legs, my knees go straight and my foot gets stuck in the floor with the wrestling shoe.

00:17:35.000 And my hamstring just snapped.

00:17:39.000 You know, like a loud, like pop.

00:17:42.000 And I just scream and I let it go and I, you know, I get thrown down and I'm just like, ah!

00:17:47.000 And I, you know, he knew something was wrong.

00:17:49.000 We stopped right there and my leg is just throbbing.

00:17:54.000 And I tried to get up.

00:17:55.000 I couldn't get up.

00:17:56.000 So I had to like walk on my hands, scoot off the mat.

00:18:01.000 I got carried out of the academy that day, could not walk, and I'm sitting down on the edge of the mat, and I'm just like, I'm bursting into tears, and I look up to Madison, and I'm like, man, it's not gonna happen.

00:18:15.000 Like, there's no way, you know?

00:18:17.000 All this is going on.

00:18:18.000 I'm not approved.

00:18:20.000 I'm training horrible.

00:18:21.000 I can't walk now, you know?

00:18:24.000 And so, you know, that was the end of week two.

00:18:27.000 All knows.

00:18:29.000 We have one more doctor to see who's like the professor of many of the doctors that I already saw.

00:18:39.000 He's very highly regarded.

00:18:41.000 One of the best doctors in the South of Brazil.

00:18:44.000 Neurospecialist, neurosurgeon.

00:18:47.000 We were so lucky to get in to see him.

00:18:51.000 You know, because he's booked up, booked up, booked up.

00:18:54.000 But we managed an appointment time for Monday of the third week, Monday night.

00:19:00.000 So, you know, I'm like, I've basically given up.

00:19:05.000 I can't walk.

00:19:07.000 I'm at home that whole weekend.

00:19:09.000 And Shanji, he had seminars on the weekend.

00:19:12.000 You know, he came down there to support me in camp.

00:19:14.000 But on the weekends, he was going off to teach seminars in different areas of Brazil.

00:19:18.000 And And so I'm laid up in this Airbnb all weekend, and I'm like, just FaceTiming my girl, and I'm like, you know, baby, like, I don't think this is happening.

00:19:31.000 I can't believe I've come this far, you know, to the title shot, this much training, you know, for the camp, like, going from November of 2018 into the end of May of 2019. That was my, that was it.

00:19:47.000 It was just this fight with Musazi.

00:19:50.000 And, you know, it took everything for me.

00:19:54.000 Like, this sounds funny, but the house, the Airbnb, the host, you know, she's like a great host.

00:20:02.000 She left so many chocolates and all this food in the house, like sweets.

00:20:07.000 And I just wanted to pig out and eat all these chocolates, you know.

00:20:12.000 I kept telling Shanji, bro, you got to eat these things.

00:20:14.000 Like, I can't look at these.

00:20:16.000 I'm such an emotional wreck right now.

00:20:19.000 You know, and I'm in the spot all weekend by myself and I'm ready to give up.

00:20:25.000 I'm like, I'm going to go eat churrascaria, you know what I mean? 1.00

00:20:28.000 And eat all these chocolates and just like, you know, because I have to diet very strict to make 185. What do you walk around at?

00:20:35.000 Around 210 to 215 is my normal weight.

00:20:38.000 That weight is kind of normal.

00:20:42.000 Most guys at 185 are around 210. But I'm already tall.

00:20:47.000 I'm already naturally pretty lean.

00:20:48.000 So I have to be very strict on my diet to get that low.

00:20:53.000 And it took everything for me to not just pig out and just like totally give in.

00:21:01.000 But, you know, Mauricio was just like, hey, we have one more doctor, one more doctor.

00:21:07.000 The whole weekend, all I did was just put...

00:21:10.000 CBD cream on my leg.

00:21:12.000 Resilient CBD. Shout out to them and my sponsor.

00:21:16.000 And I was using the Mark Pro on my leg.

00:21:20.000 What's the Mark Pro?

00:21:21.000 It's similar to a TENS unit, but it has different frequencies and you can go really deep in there.

00:21:27.000 So I'm just like, okay, let me just try to recover this thing as much as I can.

00:21:31.000 I couldn't train, couldn't do anything.

00:21:33.000 I was basically stuck at home.

00:21:36.000 And that's all I did.

00:21:37.000 And I just said, okay, Monday night, that's it.

00:21:39.000 If he says no, it's done.

00:21:42.000 And at this point, I hadn't told anything.

00:21:43.000 I let my manager, Ed, know, but we hadn't said anything to anybody else.

00:21:49.000 Literally, the only ones that knew were my girl, Shanji Mauricio, and Ed.

00:21:53.000 And so we go see this doctor Monday night.

00:21:58.000 And man, right off the bat, he kind of captivated us because he was the first one to be just chill and just like, okay, what's going on?

00:22:09.000 What brings you here?

00:22:09.000 Didn't look in any pictures.

00:22:11.000 Didn't, you know, didn't rush it.

00:22:13.000 And I tell him, yeah, you know, I got my scans.

00:22:16.000 It looks like I have cavernoma.

00:22:18.000 He said, okay, let me see your scans.

00:22:20.000 And he's like, yeah, yeah, this is cavernoma for sure.

00:22:25.000 How do you feel?

00:22:27.000 The first one to ask me, how do you feel?

00:22:30.000 And I said, well, you know, this is all a huge shock.

00:22:35.000 I've never had any problems.

00:22:36.000 I feel great.

00:22:37.000 I'm fine.

00:22:38.000 You know, I don't even get headaches.

00:22:42.000 And he's like, okay.

00:22:45.000 You know, he talks with me and he's like, let's go do an evaluation.

00:22:49.000 We do an evaluation and do some tests.

00:22:51.000 Everything's normal, like just simple, like, you know, stand on one leg and all that kind of stuff.

00:22:57.000 You know, and everything's fine.

00:23:00.000 And so we go back to the office, we sit down.

00:23:03.000 He's like, let me just see what I can find.

00:23:06.000 But I guarantee I'm not going to find anything that says head impact or trauma is going to increase the risk of your cavernoma bleeding.

00:23:18.000 And so he starts looking up, you know, journals and, you know, studies, all the things that doctors have access to.

00:23:28.000 And he literally finds nothing.

00:23:31.000 You know, there is no studies that say that getting hit in your head is going to make your cavernoma worse or cause you to bleed and something's going to happen.

00:23:41.000 He's like, look, You can bleed.

00:23:45.000 You know, you can be oozing blood at any point in time, little by little.

00:23:51.000 And it could become an issue at some point in time.

00:23:56.000 But there is no treatment.

00:23:57.000 There is no...

00:23:58.000 We're not going to do surgery like...

00:24:00.000 There's nothing that's going to happen until you have symptoms, until you show signs.

00:24:05.000 And because I can't find any studies that say getting hit in the head is going to make it worse, and because you are a normal, healthy, functioning person at this point...

00:24:18.000 I think it's fine for you to fight.

00:24:20.000 You should continue doing what you do until it becomes a problem.

00:24:23.000 And if it does become a problem, we'll go in there and we'll take it out, the big mass.

00:24:30.000 And then we'll move forward.

00:24:34.000 And so I'm just like, you know, I started getting emotional already and I'm kind of like, wow, so you'll write a letter saying this?

00:24:42.000 You'll support me?

00:24:44.000 And he's like, yeah, sure, sure, no problem.

00:24:46.000 Super calm guy.

00:24:48.000 And he was the oldest doctor we had spoken to as well.

00:24:52.000 Most experienced.

00:24:54.000 And so we get this letter.

00:24:57.000 Man, we walk out of that office, me and Mauricio, and as soon as we leave the door and we get to the elevator, man, I just burst into tears.

00:25:09.000 I just can't believe that...

00:25:12.000 There's some hope.

00:25:13.000 Like, this can still happen.

00:25:16.000 And me and Mauricio embrace, and just, we both cry.

00:25:19.000 Like, oh my god, we got the letter.

00:25:21.000 We got the letter.

00:25:23.000 So, I send the letter to Ed, and we begin the process of trying to get approved.

00:25:32.000 We get everything into Bellator, let them know they got the scans.

00:25:37.000 They send it over to the Europe Commission.

00:25:40.000 They use an organization called Safe MMA. And, you know, we kind of like, we're happy, we're positive, but at the same time, I'm still not approved.

00:25:53.000 It's still not on, you know?

00:25:55.000 But the letter is like, that was the missing piece.

00:26:00.000 That was what we needed to be able to move forward.

00:26:04.000 So, I finished that last week.

00:26:08.000 Unable to really move.

00:26:12.000 You know, I can't wrestle.

00:26:14.000 I can't kick.

00:26:15.000 And my last week in Brazil, you know, I'm literally just hitting mids like this.

00:26:20.000 And I'm like, okay, trying to stay positive.

00:26:23.000 I still have like a month.

00:26:25.000 Let's get this healed.

00:26:26.000 Let's just keep sweating.

00:26:28.000 Did you get an MRI on the hamstring?

00:26:30.000 No, I didn't get an MRI on the hamstring.

00:26:33.000 It didn't have any discoloration, so it wasn't a tear.

00:26:38.000 It was like a severe strain.

00:26:41.000 But with the popping?

00:26:43.000 It didn't turn black and blue.

00:26:44.000 And so without that discoloration, I almost didn't even want to know.

00:26:50.000 I was just like, you know.

00:26:51.000 When did it start feeling better?

00:26:53.000 It didn't, really.

00:26:55.000 I actually still feel it now.

00:26:58.000 It was a situation the whole way.

00:27:04.000 But I could stand.

00:27:06.000 So I could stand and all I'm doing is boxing now at this point because I can't throw kicks and I can't change levels to do takedowns.

00:27:16.000 Um, and so that was a whole nother thing because, you know, as I'm waiting to, to hear back on if I'm going to get approved, I'm only punching mitts.

00:27:26.000 Like I might as well be doing like a cardio kick, kickboxing class, you know, without kicks.

00:27:32.000 And that was the last thing that I want to do with Musashi is just go in there and box, you know, that's not what I do.

00:27:39.000 Right.

00:27:41.000 The hardships and frustrations just continued as I'm dealing with my hamstring, but at least we had some hope.

00:27:52.000 So I finished that week, fly home, and now I'm finishing my last couple weeks of camp at home in Oklahoma.

00:28:01.000 Shanji comes to Oklahoma.

00:28:03.000 You know, Mauricio's there.

00:28:05.000 And I'm trying to put together some great training.

00:28:08.000 One of my best training partners from Curitiba, his name's Chris Cristiano.

00:28:11.000 He came to Oklahoma as well.

00:28:15.000 And, you know, everyone's aware of the situation as far as my coaches, my team.

00:28:20.000 I did not tell my parents.

00:28:24.000 I didn't want anyone to know.

00:28:26.000 I didn't want it to get out.

00:28:28.000 And so I was just dealing with it with them, you know.

00:28:32.000 And so we send everything in and we're waiting.

00:28:38.000 We're waiting.

00:28:40.000 This guy, his name is Yanni.

00:28:42.000 He's on the commission with Safe MMA. He reaches out to me like after the first week.

00:28:50.000 And he said, hey, we need to talk.

00:28:52.000 And so I give him a call.

00:28:54.000 And he's like, we got the letter.

00:28:57.000 We're looking at your scans.

00:28:59.000 We've actually created a panel of doctors to talk about this.

00:29:07.000 And at this point, it's 50-50.

00:29:09.000 I just want you to know.

00:29:11.000 We're unsure if we're going to approve this.

00:29:16.000 And I just want you to hear, you know, I just wanted to touch base with you.

00:29:20.000 Wanted you to hear from me.

00:29:21.000 We see everything, but you have to understand we're still not sure.

00:29:25.000 So bear with us.

00:29:27.000 I'm like, okay, try to get through the next week.

00:29:31.000 Um, I had some decent days with my hamstring, um, where I could shoot a little bit and work some takedowns.

00:29:40.000 But, um, if I had a good day, the next day I had to take it real light because it was just, it was so tight, so tight, so tender.

00:29:50.000 Did you get it massaged at all?

00:29:51.000 Oh, yeah.

00:29:52.000 I was doing everything, everything possible.

00:29:54.000 I mean, getting it worked on, doing hot-cold.

00:29:59.000 Like, you know, I'm pretty...

00:30:02.000 Like, anything out there that is for recovery, I have probably at my house, you know.

00:30:10.000 I'm big on really taking care of my body, so I was just trying to be as smart as I could and just get through it.

00:30:17.000 And...

00:30:20.000 We come to this point now where the fight is two weeks away, and I don't know if it's on or not.

00:30:31.000 I'm just trying to put together as good of training as I can, stay as positive as I can, but at the same time, I'm just like, man, I need the yes.

00:30:40.000 I need to be able to focus.

00:30:43.000 How are you staying conditioned when you barely can use your leg?

00:30:48.000 Man, it was really hard.

00:30:51.000 I was heavier.

00:30:53.000 I was walking around heavier than what I normally would for my fights.

00:30:58.000 By this time, I'm normally below 205 in the 200 to 205 range.

00:31:05.000 That's where I like to get to just off pure diet and off training.

00:31:08.000 And I was still 210 to 212. It was hard.

00:31:14.000 I could box, and I could box hard, and I could spar boxing, but without wrestling, I didn't feel like I was conditioned the way I wanted to be.

00:31:26.000 I couldn't sprint.

00:31:27.000 I could ride the bike.

00:31:29.000 The bike didn't put too much pressure, but I couldn't go all out the way I would like to.

00:31:33.000 Like an airdyne? 0.94

00:31:34.000 Yeah, airdyne.

00:31:36.000 Everything was not the way it would normally be done.

00:31:40.000 Now, you know, you're never 100%.

00:31:41.000 You're always dealing with something.

00:31:43.000 You know, I've had a broken nose before, cuts, rib, things.

00:31:47.000 Like, there's always something, you know.

00:31:51.000 But it was the stress of both and the uncertainty on if we would get to fight at all.

00:31:56.000 Yeah.

00:31:58.000 That was really hard and for sure that's why I got hurt.

00:32:01.000 You know, that's 100% why I got hurt.

00:32:04.000 But anyways, finally on like the last day that they could give me the answer, they gave me the answer and I got the email and it said, we've approved you.

00:32:18.000 You are approved to fight two weeks before the fight.

00:32:22.000 I held off on, you know, I'm flying my family there, you know what I mean?

00:32:27.000 I have all my, like, there's the corner coaches, but I have a couple other coaches that I was, you know, going to fly out there, and I was waiting to purchase these tickets, and, you know, I had some other guys like, hey, where are you staying?

00:32:39.000 What's going on?

00:32:40.000 Like, I'm ready.

00:32:42.000 And I'm like, hey, don't book anything just yet.

00:32:44.000 Don't book anything.

00:32:44.000 Because I don't want them to buy tickets to London.

00:32:46.000 I'm not fighting.

00:32:48.000 And I'm trying to be cool and not give anyone too much of an idea of what's going on and stay positive, stay confident and everything.

00:32:59.000 Finally, we got the green light.

00:33:01.000 And I'm literally flying a few days later to London.

00:33:05.000 We left on Tuesday and arrived there Wednesday.

00:33:10.000 I got there like 10 days before, so I have one weekend before the weekend of the fight.

00:33:16.000 And, you know, at this point, it was like, okay, once we got that yes, I mean, we celebrated.

00:33:22.000 It was like...

00:33:24.000 You know, that's all I wanted.

00:33:26.000 I mean, I had already fought so hard just to be able to get to this fight, you know?

00:33:32.000 And we, you know, we go to London and my leg starts doing a little better.

00:33:39.000 And I'm like, you know, starting to just feel it like, okay, this is it.

00:33:45.000 You know, everything's coming together.

00:33:46.000 We're going to, we're going to Finish things on a good note.

00:33:51.000 And Friday, the week before the fight, I met Hodger's Academy in London, Hodger Gracie.

00:33:56.000 He opened up his doors, let us work in there.

00:33:59.000 And I'm feeling good and I overdo it and I feel my hamstring go again.

00:34:05.000 It wasn't a full pop, but it was like that stretch where it catches it and it just like...

00:34:11.000 And it's just like this pain rushed through and I'm like, oh no, I did it again.

00:34:17.000 I could feel it tighten up and lock.

00:34:20.000 I had to stop training that day.

00:34:22.000 And this is a week before the fight now.

00:34:25.000 And I'm right back to that like, I can't change levels.

00:34:30.000 I can't kick.

00:34:32.000 And I'm just like...

00:34:35.000 Once again, an emotional wreck.

00:34:40.000 My friend Cameron Shane, who's a mobility yoga guru, he's just an amazing guy.

00:34:51.000 He, you know, being that I felt the way I did, I didn't want to go back to Hajar's and try to do anything because I didn't want people to see me. 0.97

00:34:57.000 And he has these, you know, yoga connections all throughout the world.

00:35:01.000 And we found a yoga studio where my last few days, we could go there and try to do whatever we could, where no one could see, you know, as far as like other jiu-jitsu guys or MMA guys.

00:35:14.000 And man, the Sunday before the fight, we go into this yoga studio and we're trying to get a workout together.

00:35:23.000 And I'm just like, man, I break down and I just start crying.

00:35:28.000 And I'm like, guys, because I'm literally hitting mitts like this again.

00:35:31.000 I'm right back to that.

00:35:33.000 My niece was like, just punch, just to lose the weight, you know? 0.82

00:35:35.000 And I'm like, man, I need to wrestle.

00:35:39.000 I need to feel my takedowns.

00:35:40.000 I need to feel my whole game coming together.

00:35:43.000 And I just break down and all the guys come around me, you know, and they just, man, they consoled me in such a I mean, we just cut it that day.

00:35:57.000 There was no more training, but I can't begin to give as much gratitude and describe how much my team was there for me when I needed them because I was not in a good state of mind.

00:36:19.000 I was not in a good place.

00:36:21.000 I can imagine.

00:36:22.000 You're six days out in London and you literally can't use your leg.

00:36:28.000 Exactly.

00:36:31.000 The love and the inspiration and everything that they put into me, we all fought that fight together.

00:36:43.000 We all fought that fight together.

00:36:47.000 And, you know, we left that day, had a couple more days before we check into the Bellator Hotel.

00:36:54.000 The Tuesday, Wednesday is when we go to the Bellator Hotel.

00:36:58.000 Tuesday, I was able to put together a good day of training.

00:37:02.000 So it loosened up?

00:37:03.000 It loosened back up.

00:37:04.000 It wasn't, like I said, it wasn't a fool as bad as the first one.

00:37:08.000 It just hit me for a second.

00:37:10.000 But I think, like, you know, those moments...

00:37:17.000 I needed that.

00:37:19.000 I needed to combine our energies because look how that fight ended up going.

00:37:26.000 I felt like that fight before the fight was to prep me for the fight.

00:37:39.000 Going there...

00:37:42.000 Obviously, I'm a big underdog.

00:37:44.000 You know, it's in London.

00:37:47.000 Musasi has so much history there.

00:37:48.000 He's from Amsterdam.

00:37:51.000 You know, I don't know if anyone out there saw the video that Bellator put out afterwards where I said, like, you know, we did it and you could see how emotional I was.

00:38:02.000 This is why, you know.

00:38:04.000 And fast forward to when we're backstage.

00:38:12.000 Getting ready to go out there.

00:38:15.000 I always take my favorite book, Think and Grow Rich from Napoleon Hill.

00:38:19.000 I always take that.

00:38:20.000 Why is that?

00:38:22.000 It's just a powerful book for my life.

00:38:26.000 I discovered it in 2000, the end of 2007. And it's just such an inspirational book and really kind of like was the sort of the Bible for self-help books and all the other, you know, people that kind of came from that, like Tony Robbins and things like that.

00:38:48.000 Like, you know, the The motivating, the secret, all those sort of things.

00:38:55.000 Think and Grow Rich was the first.

00:39:01.000 Anyways, there's so many quotes in there and things that just have stuck with me throughout the years.

00:39:07.000 I love to read certain chapters and portions of it when I'm backstage getting ready to fight.

00:39:14.000 I have highlighted sentences and notes in it and stuff.

00:39:20.000 I'm backstage, and I open the book, and I hadn't opened it up to this point on this trip.

00:39:27.000 It was just with me.

00:39:28.000 I put it in my bag, and I got a couple hours before we go out to fight, and I always open it up.

00:39:35.000 As soon as I open it, the flap is inside in a chapter already in the last place I looked at it or whatever.

00:39:43.000 And the first thing I see is a highlighted portion that says every adversity carries with it the seed of an equivalent advantage.

00:39:54.000 That was the first thing that I saw and it hit me right there.

00:39:58.000 It was like everything that I went through in this camp to get to this fight You know, that is going to be my advantage.

00:40:06.000 That is going to be what carries me through this fight.

00:40:09.000 That's my power.

00:40:11.000 I know what I'm here for.

00:40:12.000 That's a great quote.

00:40:13.000 It's the best.

00:40:14.000 You know, every adversity carries with it the seed of an equivalent advantage.

00:40:20.000 Another one of my favorites from Napoleon Hill that I've used on t-shirts and inside a gi before. 0.85

00:40:27.000 Victory is always possible for the person who refuses to stop fighting.

00:40:32.000 That's martial arts, right?

00:40:34.000 A black belt is a white belt who never quit.

00:40:37.000 As long as you never quit, success is always possible.

00:40:41.000 Every failure just helps you learn and grow to get to your ultimate objective, your ultimate goal.

00:40:49.000 And when I saw that...

00:40:52.000 I'm writing that book down right now.

00:40:53.000 Yeah, Think and Grow Rich.

00:40:54.000 I tell all my students, all my competitors, all my guys, I always talk about that book.

00:41:02.000 And that was the first thing that I saw.

00:41:04.000 And like I said, going into this fight, all I wanted was that fight.

00:41:11.000 Trying to get approved, that whole process was just like, hey, just give me this one.

00:41:17.000 Just give me this one more.

00:41:18.000 Don't stop me this short of my dream.

00:41:21.000 My dream to fight for the belt, to fight a legendary fighter like Musashi.

00:41:26.000 Someone that's been at the top for so long.

00:41:30.000 That was how I envisioned fighting for my first big world title in MMA. I mean, I was going out there like that was the last fight of my life.

00:41:42.000 Like, it could potentially be the last fight of my life, you know?

00:41:45.000 And all this stuff with my health, like, you know, when I'm thinking about my parents and my family, you know, like, wondering, you know, am I going to get hurt?

00:41:56.000 Is this...

00:41:56.000 Am I... I'm going to do something selfishly where because I want to fight, I want this title that something could happen to me and I'm not going to be healthy, I'm not going to be the same and I'm going to break their hearts.

00:42:13.000 I had all these emotions and thoughts and I was literally kind of...

00:42:23.000 So to speak, going out there ready to die.

00:42:26.000 Ready to just let it all out.

00:42:28.000 This is it.

00:42:31.000 All I wanted was this opportunity.

00:42:34.000 And I could feel how all of that was to prep me for the fight.

00:42:40.000 Everything that we went through, that fight to get to the fight.

00:42:45.000 And my dad's in my corner.

00:42:47.000 You know, he's in my corner for all my fights.

00:42:49.000 I have the guys that went through everything, you know, that last four or five weeks before the fight to get approved with me.

00:42:59.000 And when I saw that, I looked around at them and I smiled.

00:43:03.000 I said, guys, we're gonna do it.

00:43:04.000 We're gonna do it.

00:43:05.000 It was destiny.

00:43:08.000 And I don't know if you've ever seen, but I've posted before some clips of my dad who is a professional organist, or a former professional organist, but he still plays the organ.

00:43:20.000 He's a musician.

00:43:23.000 And when I walked out for this fight, I had them play a clip of my dad playing the organ.

00:43:34.000 And, you know, growing up, when I first started training martial arts, my dad was playing the organ at that time, professionally, and that was what I did.

00:43:45.000 The time that I spent with my dad, I was at church, listening to him play the organ, and then we would go to the academy, and we would train, or we would train at home, and, you know, my father's in my corner, and, you know, this is...

00:44:02.000 This is our work.

00:44:04.000 I am who I am because of him.

00:44:06.000 I'm a martial artist because of him.

00:44:08.000 I have my brothers, the guys I've been training with for over a decade.

00:44:13.000 It was our destiny.

00:44:17.000 It was family.

00:44:18.000 We were going out there to fight as a family and walking out to my dad playing the organ.

00:44:25.000 It just really...

00:44:28.000 It took me to this place where it's like, I'm going to give everything.

00:44:32.000 I absolutely have.

00:44:35.000 Win or lose, I'm not going to stop.

00:44:40.000 I'm going to do my best, my absolute best.

00:44:43.000 And then the fight went the way it did, came down to the fifth round.

00:44:50.000 That's where that fifth round came from, was...

00:44:54.000 It was for them, you know, the love that they gave me to get me, even just to get me there, you know, because I was ready to break, man.

00:45:02.000 I was in pieces so many days in that camp.

00:45:09.000 You know, it was...

00:45:12.000 It was just a rollercoaster of emotions.

00:45:15.000 But having them, you know, my father, my brothers behind me, that's where that strength came from and everything we went through before the fight.

00:45:25.000 But that's why I was so emotional in the cage.

00:45:28.000 I mean, you'd be emotional anyways for a title fight, but, you know, it was something else.

00:45:35.000 Just to get there, you know, and have that opportunity.

00:45:44.000 And you could really, Mauricio, he's right there with his hands like...

00:45:51.000 It's a powerful moment right there.

00:45:55.000 Did it bother you that he had a lot of sour grapes after the fight?

00:46:01.000 Gagar did.

00:46:03.000 It did.

00:46:05.000 It did.

00:46:05.000 He didn't really credit you for the fight.

00:46:08.000 He was just saying mostly that you were on steroids.

00:46:11.000 This is my mom.

00:46:12.000 Yeah.

00:46:14.000 Paying her respects, giving him a hug.

00:46:17.000 I mean, I understand that he felt bad because he lost, but I felt like the way he handled it was uncharacteristic for him.

00:46:23.000 I thought so, too.

00:46:24.000 We were so respectful.

00:46:25.000 After the fight, I went up to him.

00:46:28.000 Before they made the decision, I went up to him.

00:46:30.000 I shook his hand.

00:46:31.000 I said, man, it was an honor.

00:46:33.000 So much respect for you.

00:46:35.000 It was an honor to battle with you.

00:46:37.000 I thanked him.

00:46:38.000 Thank you.

00:46:39.000 And we shook hands and hugged.

00:46:43.000 But then he didn't stay after they raised my hand.

00:46:45.000 He walked right out.

00:46:46.000 We didn't shake hands again.

00:46:48.000 And then everything else, yeah, really surprised me.

00:46:51.000 I think it was just hard to fathom because, you know, this was my 10th fight.

00:46:56.000 He had already had over 50. He was a big favorite.

00:47:00.000 I just don't think, you know, he...

00:47:04.000 They were very confident.

00:47:07.000 They were very confident leading up to the fight.

00:47:10.000 And I don't think anyone imagined me to walk out of there with that belt.

00:47:15.000 Especially with one leg.

00:47:16.000 Yeah.

00:47:17.000 He didn't know about that.

00:47:18.000 It hurt really bad after.

00:47:19.000 I'm sure.

00:47:21.000 But, you know, I didn't feel it.

00:47:23.000 Like, that's, when the adrenaline's pumping, you know, I didn't, it wasn't until like an hour later, I was like, whew, it's pretty tight.

00:47:33.000 Yeah, why do you think he did that?

00:47:35.000 Why do you think, I mean, he's lost before.

00:47:37.000 I've never seen him just attribute, essentially, attribute most of your success, he was just accusing you of taking steroids.

00:47:46.000 Yeah.

00:47:46.000 And not a little bit of steroids, he was saying, like monkey steroids.

00:47:50.000 That's what he said.

00:47:51.000 Yeah.

00:47:52.000 I don't know.

00:47:53.000 You know, his camp had a...

00:47:56.000 I felt like Musashi is genuinely like what I would call, you know, a real martial artist.

00:48:02.000 He's a martial artist and he doesn't really ever, you know, trash talk anybody.

00:48:08.000 And we were very respectful.

00:48:10.000 But, you know, his camp was...

00:48:12.000 They were saying and doing some things that were a little edgier, I would say, when we...

00:48:17.000 A little douche here.

00:48:18.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:48:19.000 Trying to be classy.

00:48:21.000 When we were at the press conference and we were going off for the face-off, you know, all this camp, we're always yelling a bunch of things.

00:48:29.000 And, you know, when we were walking up, one guy yells up to me, dead man walking!

00:48:36.000 And of course, immediately in my mind, I'm like, I have this brain disease, you know, that, you know, may or may not be an issue here in a couple days when we fight, you know.

00:48:48.000 And I have my family right there.

00:48:51.000 I'm like...

00:48:53.000 And then I have to look at him in the eyes.

00:48:55.000 But I'll never forget that.

00:48:57.000 I thought about that.

00:48:58.000 Dead man walking.

00:49:00.000 And I was just like, this guy.

00:49:04.000 And it was a lot.

00:49:06.000 It was a lot to take in to step into that cage.

00:49:10.000 But I think maybe some of the people he's around, maybe...

00:49:15.000 That doesn't cause him to say those things when he was sitting at the table with the microphone in front of him.

00:49:22.000 Did you respond to that?

00:49:24.000 No, I mean, that was right when we were walking to face off, and the press conference was basically done at that point.

00:49:33.000 So I had nothing to say to that, you know, that person yelling that.

00:49:38.000 No, but I mean, after the fight, when he was accusing you of steroids, did you ever...

00:49:41.000 No, I never had a moment to, you know, I haven't had another fight.

00:49:49.000 You never did an interview where anybody talked to you about his accusations?

00:49:54.000 No, who was it?

00:49:55.000 I did one.

00:49:55.000 Luke Thomas.

00:49:56.000 Luke Thomas did an interview with me.

00:49:59.000 I like that guy a lot.

00:50:00.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:50:02.000 And I think it was...

00:50:06.000 No, yeah.

00:50:07.000 It was before he fought Machida.

00:50:09.000 It was before he fought Machida.

00:50:10.000 And he talked to me about it in an interview about the fight and everything.

00:50:15.000 And I didn't have too much to say other than I just felt like it was a little sad because it was a great fight.

00:50:20.000 It was a really great fight.

00:50:23.000 A good fight.

00:50:24.000 Close fight.

00:50:24.000 Yeah, super close.

00:50:26.000 I feel like we kind of...

00:50:28.000 He probably thinks that he was under par and...

00:50:34.000 And I made a lot of mistakes too, and I wasn't too happy about some of the things that happened in that fight as well.

00:50:39.000 I thought I could have done a lot better.

00:50:40.000 But in a way, I felt like we kind of brought out the best of each other.

00:50:44.000 You know, his jiu-jitsu very much impressed me.

00:50:47.000 He was a seasoned pro, just like always, calm.

00:50:52.000 And, you know, then when he had his moment, he had his moment.

00:50:57.000 He started taking over, you know.

00:50:59.000 And, you know, it brought out the best of me and the heart that I showed coming back in that fifth round.

00:51:06.000 And I just felt like it was a great fight and we should be applauding each other for our performances.

00:51:11.000 And all this, you know, trash talking is really taken away from that.

00:51:19.000 Anyways, we were supposed to fight Saturday night in LA a couple days ago.

00:51:27.000 We set up the fight in November.

00:51:32.000 I signed a ballot agreement.

00:51:34.000 He went out there and got a win against Machida.

00:51:37.000 Happy to do the rematch.

00:51:39.000 And, you know, bringing this stuff back up, I'm in camp.

00:51:45.000 I've already started camp for this fight in January.

00:51:49.000 It's November.

00:51:50.000 And I get a call from, well, the same person I spoke to, Yanni from Safe MMA, says, Hey, we have a doctor.

00:51:58.000 We've continued studying your scans.

00:52:00.000 We've had a doctor look at this that didn't see it before the fight.

00:52:06.000 His name is Dr. Healy.

00:52:07.000 He's from Ireland and he really wants to talk to you.

00:52:11.000 I said, okay, have him give me a call and let's talk.

00:52:16.000 So I'm actually in Austin.

00:52:17.000 I'm training at the Onnit campus, getting great training down there.

00:52:22.000 You know, getting my camp going and I get this call from Dr. Healy and we talk and he is very adamant that I should not continue fighting and he says it's a mistake that I was approved and able to fight.

00:52:41.000 In London.

00:52:44.000 And moving forward, I would not be approved in Europe again.

00:52:50.000 So, at this point, now Europe is a no.

00:52:54.000 What is his credentials?

00:52:56.000 Why is he so respected above all the others?

00:52:58.000 What did he see in the scan?

00:53:00.000 He's a neurologist.

00:53:01.000 He sees the same thing as everybody else.

00:53:04.000 He just says that they made the wrong decision.

00:53:08.000 And somehow he didn't see it before the fight.

00:53:10.000 He didn't see the scans before the fight?

00:53:12.000 No.

00:53:13.000 But why is his opinion respected above all the other doctors that approved you?

00:53:17.000 I don't know.

00:53:18.000 I don't know.

00:53:19.000 The doctor in Curchiba?

00:53:21.000 Well, he's part of this panel that Safe MMA created.

00:53:26.000 They continued talking about my scans and discussing it further.

00:53:32.000 It's a rare thing.

00:53:35.000 Cavernoma is...

00:53:39.000 I mean, it's not that rare, but it's like one in two or three hundred people have it in the U.S. And they probably don't know about it.

00:53:47.000 Exactly.

00:53:48.000 Unless they've experienced symptoms.

00:53:49.000 Unless they have symptoms.

00:53:51.000 And in Europe, it's like one in five hundred.

00:53:54.000 And so being that it's a rare disease and throw that into me doing something that not very many people do...

00:54:04.000 I don't think there's been too many cases where a professional fighter has this disease and they have to make these decisions.

00:54:13.000 And so I get that call from Dr. Healy and, you know, I'm like, and of course I've already started another camp now.

00:54:21.000 So the same things are coming up.

00:54:22.000 We're like, am I going to get approved?

00:54:25.000 I'm driving up from Austin to corner one of my guys at the border of Oklahoma and Texas for his Bellator debut.

00:54:38.000 And so I'm at Bellator like the next day.

00:54:43.000 This call I got from Dr. Healy was on Thursday.

00:54:46.000 Friday, I'm driving up to Bellator to corner one of my guys.

00:54:49.000 And so I'm there and I end up talking to Rich and I tell Rich, hey man, I just got this call.

00:54:56.000 I'm a little nervous, you know, because in my mind up to that point I thought, well, since Europe approved me, I should be okay to continue getting approved and continue fighting.

00:55:09.000 And so I'm like, man, maybe we need to go ahead and start the process now.

00:55:14.000 Let's not wait.

00:55:14.000 It's November.

00:55:15.000 Let's not wait until December to get everything into California.

00:55:19.000 I can't do another camp with all this uncertainty.

00:55:22.000 And Rich agrees, and he's like, yep, okay, I'm on it next week.

00:55:26.000 And we got Ian.

00:55:28.000 Ian Matthews, he coordinates all the medicals for Bellator.

00:55:33.000 We start getting organized, and literally a little over a week later, I'm flying out to L.A. to see doctors here and check up on everything, get new scans, and see what they say.

00:55:52.000 So I get my scans done.

00:55:55.000 I talked to a neurologist.

00:55:58.000 He is not favorable of me fighting, but the last thing he says is, you really need to see a specialist, like a neurosurgeon.

00:56:07.000 So there's neurologists and then there's neurosurgeons, ones that actually do brain surgeries.

00:56:13.000 And he says, you need to see an actual specialist.

00:56:17.000 You know, that's the last thing he says.

00:56:19.000 And so, boom, I'm right on the phone with Ian.

00:56:21.000 The guy recommended a couple people.

00:56:24.000 Ian's able to set it up where the next day I go to UCLA and I see a neurosurgeon.

00:56:30.000 His name is Dr. Wong.

00:56:33.000 The next morning.

00:56:34.000 And Mauricio's with me.

00:56:35.000 Ed's with me.

00:56:37.000 We go see Dr. Wong and he is very, very similar to the doctor I see in Brazil.

00:56:46.000 He is very calm.

00:56:49.000 He's a younger guy though, but he has a lot of experience with people with cavernoma.

00:56:55.000 He's actually, I mean, that morning he actually operated on someone Before we saw him that had cavernoma and had a bundle very similar to mine, almost in the exact same location.

00:57:08.000 It took him less than an hour to get it out, and that person walked away.

00:57:12.000 How are they getting into the brain?

00:57:14.000 I can't tell you the specifics of the surgery, but...

00:57:18.000 I mean, they're able to go in, and because it's on the outer rim, they can pull it out, and it's a very minimal turnaround as far as your recovery.

00:57:33.000 I mean, the person got up and walked away.

00:57:36.000 So this is just a large bundle.

00:57:38.000 The small bundles are not of concern?

00:57:40.000 Exactly.

00:57:41.000 The large bundle has already shown a history of a little bit of bleeding.

00:57:47.000 You know, they could see where like some blood came out and dried up.

00:57:53.000 And, you know, if that continues...

00:57:57.000 And it keeps getting bigger, then it's more pressure on your brain and more likely for hemorrhaging and things like that.

00:58:06.000 But he says that it's in the best location possible, and the fact that it's on the outer rim would be easy to get out if they needed to.

00:58:14.000 And I asked him, I said, well, should we just get this thing out now, and then I can try to get approved?

00:58:19.000 Just so it doesn't look so bad, you know, and make people feel better.

00:58:23.000 And he recommends against it.

00:58:26.000 He said, no, we're not going to do surgery until you have some symptoms or some problems.

00:58:31.000 And, you know, until then, like, live your life.

00:58:36.000 He's operated and worked with NFL players and boxers.

00:58:42.000 That have cavernoma, and they were able to continue on, no problem.

00:58:48.000 And he was very positive.

00:58:50.000 I have a letter from him on my phone, and he's talking about the percentage of something happening being less than 1%.

00:58:59.000 With it as it stands?

00:59:01.000 Yes.

00:59:02.000 So he's giving you the full go ahead.

00:59:04.000 He's giving me the full go ahead.

00:59:06.000 And so we're very positive.

00:59:09.000 We leave thinking that that's going to be enough.

00:59:14.000 And I continue with my camp.

00:59:17.000 And it was in December.

00:59:21.000 Rich and Bellator, and let me just say, they have been super supportive.

00:59:27.000 Bellator, they organized me going out and seeing this doctor, getting into UCLA to see the neurosurgeon.

00:59:38.000 They've been really helpful and tremendous in working with me to keep this dream alive of continuing to fight.

00:59:48.000 It was a dream to become the champion.

00:59:50.000 And now, I mean, I've only done three fights with Bellator outside of my home state, outside of Oklahoma.

00:59:55.000 My last three, you know?

00:59:57.000 So, I'm at this point now where, like, I was going to fight in L.A., you know?

01:00:01.000 Which was going to be amazing.

01:00:04.000 All the friends that I have here for my career in jiu-jitsu, you know?

01:00:09.000 And already looking ahead to...

01:00:11.000 I mean, actually, I was shooting for us to fight in Japan.

01:00:15.000 They just did...

01:00:16.000 Their first Bellator Japan on New Year's Eve.

01:00:19.000 And I thought, oh, with Musashi's history in Japan, maybe we could fight there. 0.66

01:00:23.000 But they wanted us in L.A., which was fine.

01:00:26.000 But, you know, starting to see that, hey, these big arenas and, you know, really just like the big shows were right there, like at grasp, you know, putting on for my team, for my family, and, you know, for where I'm from.

01:00:43.000 Like, we're about to be there, you know.

01:00:48.000 And, you know, so, like, I was super excited, super excited for this fight.

01:00:55.000 But Bellator, they say, okay, we're going to get this into California sort of under the table.

01:01:03.000 You know, we're not going to put an official application because if they deny, you know, Now, that'll be two commissions on paper that say no.

01:01:13.000 And so, you know, they kind of put this into the Athletic Commission's hands.

01:01:21.000 Andy Foster of the California State Athletic Commission said, hey, you know, we have a guy who has this condition.

01:01:29.000 Just tell me what you guys would do with this situation.

01:01:33.000 Would he be approved or not?

01:01:35.000 And it was like mid-December.

01:01:39.000 The word came back that it wasn't going to be a no.

01:01:44.000 And so that's really why I'm here right now.

01:01:52.000 I've committed myself to getting back into grappling and jiu-jitsu right now.

01:01:59.000 I have a match lined up next month.

01:02:03.000 And I'm sure, you know, there's questions.

01:02:07.000 There already have been questions.

01:02:08.000 I had already told my students.

01:02:10.000 I mean, I had signed a bout agreement and everything for January.

01:02:13.000 And I had students buying tickets to come to L.A. to be here at my fight.

01:02:18.000 You know, and I've been like...

01:02:20.000 Like, oh, you know, we got postponed.

01:02:22.000 We got delayed.

01:02:23.000 I haven't said anything to anyone other than my...

01:02:24.000 I mean, I just told my parents a few weeks ago.

01:02:27.000 You know, I finally told them.

01:02:29.000 Do your parents have this?

01:02:30.000 Have they gotten themselves checked?

01:02:31.000 They haven't gotten scanned yet.

01:02:33.000 But the plan is for them to get checked out for sure.

01:02:36.000 And that's a big reason why I'm here today, Joe, is to create awareness for this because...

01:02:46.000 Who knows?

01:02:47.000 And it's really given me a different outlook.

01:02:50.000 We get physicals.

01:02:52.000 We go see the dentist.

01:02:54.000 We get checked up.

01:02:58.000 But how often do you think, let me get a brain scan done to know what's going on with my head, to know how my brain looks.

01:03:06.000 I've thought about doing it and I'm actually nervous.

01:03:09.000 I don't blame you.

01:03:11.000 Now, man, I totally get that.

01:03:15.000 Before, like I said, I went into it so like, oh, this is just a routine thing to get approved to fight.

01:03:21.000 I fought nine times already.

01:03:25.000 Imagine who else could be out there with something either in their living a regular life or maybe in an extreme life where they're doing combat or, you know, in some sort of extreme sport where they're getting hit in the head.

01:03:40.000 But it was never required of them to get a scan done.

01:03:46.000 And they never just had an issue, so they never thought about it, you know?

01:03:50.000 And you don't really know what's going on up there until you get it looked at.

01:03:54.000 So are you officially retiring?

01:03:56.000 I'm not officially retiring.

01:03:58.000 I am sort of, I guess, indefinitely on the sidelines right now.

01:04:06.000 I am actively seeing more doctors and working towards...

01:04:14.000 Learning more about this, obviously I want to keep fighting.

01:04:17.000 This gentleman in LA, Dr. Wong, so he had done these operations on, you said MMA fighters?

01:04:25.000 I don't know if he operated on...

01:04:28.000 He mentioned boxers and NFL players.

01:04:29.000 I don't know if he operated on them.

01:04:31.000 He had seen it in them and helped them continue their careers, and he keeps a close eye.

01:04:37.000 So I need to get scans done at least once a year or every six months.

01:04:41.000 Was that patch, the large patch in the back of your head, was that particularly troubling to him more than the other ones?

01:04:47.000 No, no.

01:04:48.000 He said...

01:04:49.000 That it was in the best location possible.

01:04:51.000 To get to.

01:04:52.000 Yes.

01:04:53.000 And because it's not deep in, it's not in an area where it could affect my cognitive functions, my memory, things like that.

01:05:01.000 What goes on back there?

01:05:03.000 Back there, I'm not 100% sure.

01:05:06.000 He made it sound like nothing too important happens there.

01:05:11.000 I know.

01:05:13.000 The back area, as far as what I've learned thus far, is more like everyday type of stuff.

01:05:20.000 It's not your memory.

01:05:21.000 It's not in a position where you could...

01:05:27.000 Violently lose your temper or have a lapse in time where you become someone else and then you come back.

01:05:37.000 All that kind of stuff happens more deep inside the brain.

01:05:41.000 Where it's at on the outside and the back is just sort of like the regular stuff.

01:05:48.000 Obviously, neither of us are neurosurgeons the way we're describing this.

01:05:51.000 The area of the regular stuff.

01:05:54.000 Yeah.

01:05:55.000 So are you thinking about going in there and getting it removed?

01:05:59.000 No.

01:06:00.000 No.

01:06:01.000 It is recommended against.

01:06:03.000 Why is that?

01:06:04.000 Because why do brain surgery if I don't have any symptoms?

01:06:07.000 That's what he says.

01:06:09.000 Mm-hmm.

01:06:10.000 Because I was up for it.

01:06:11.000 I said, hey, should we just do this?

01:06:13.000 And he's like, look, it'll probably be six months to a year before I would say it's okay to go back into sparring and things like that.

01:06:21.000 You're going to be able to walk out and be fine and do your day-to-day stuff, but I don't want you getting hit in the head for a while.

01:06:25.000 Of course.

01:06:26.000 And why...

01:06:27.000 I mean, it's a low-risk surgery, but why take that risk if you're not having symptoms?

01:06:32.000 The treatment or the care is always just to keep an eye on it, see how it develops, and if you start having some problems, then we're going to go in there and remove it.

01:06:42.000 But if you say that you're indefinitely on the sidelines, it seems to me that unless you get it removed, you're permanently on the sidelines.

01:06:50.000 Well, I... This is where I'm at now.

01:06:55.000 This is such a rare and unique thing.

01:07:00.000 No one really knows too much.

01:07:02.000 You know, I'm getting some people that are saying, no, no way.

01:07:05.000 And then I'm getting these other, you know, specialists and people that have really dealt with it that are like, yeah, it's okay.

01:07:11.000 I am, like I said, it's indefinite.

01:07:14.000 I just want to, I'm 36. So you're in this, I mean, realistically, athletically, this is sort of the last chapter of your career.

01:07:22.000 Oh yes.

01:07:22.000 Yeah.

01:07:23.000 And this is how I wanted to end it, you know, as the champ trying to Submit myself as one of the great champs of this era and defend that belt as long as possible and say goodbye.

01:07:39.000 But I still have hope.

01:07:41.000 I still have hope that if I can continue seeing more doctors and getting more knowledge, Andy Foster from the Athletic Commission has recommended another doctor to see.

01:07:54.000 I'm not officially declined.

01:07:56.000 For the California State Athletic Commission at this point.

01:07:59.000 Did Andy Foster talk to this Dr. Wong who specifically said he didn't think it was going to be a problem?

01:08:05.000 No, not yet.

01:08:06.000 But he recommended another doctor at UCLA that actually used to work on the Athletic Commission that could be a big help.

01:08:15.000 I'm right in the middle of this, so I'm just going to keep seeing more doctors and try to learn more about this.

01:08:22.000 If it's really unsafe and I'm not going to get approved ever, I finally got to a place where I can accept that and I'm going to move forward on with my life teaching and doing what I do at home and with all of my students worldwide.

01:08:40.000 But if I'm still getting people like Dr. Wong and the doctor I saw in Brazil And I can find more doctors who have experience with this.

01:08:52.000 If they keep saying that they think it's okay, and I can have hope of getting approved, I'm going to keep fighting for that.

01:09:01.000 Where can you get approved?

01:09:02.000 What states could approve you right now?

01:09:06.000 Well, that's tricky to know because, you know, as far as in the U.S., only New York and California require brain scans.

01:09:15.000 And so that's, you know, a big thing of what I want to talk about, you know, or what I wanted to bring awareness to is like, All these other states don't require scans.

01:09:25.000 So if you fight in those states, to me, it's of your best interest to, on your own, if you have the means, if you have insurance or whatever, get a scan done to see what it looks like.

01:09:43.000 But I'm hoping that through this we can figure out If cavernoma is safe or not, the more doctors I have looking at this and talking about it, bringing awareness to it, that we're going to learn and understand more of this disease and if it's possible or if it's not possible.

01:10:03.000 But I'm trying to keep the hope alive that if it's six months, a year, even two years, that maybe I can at least get one more, at least get one more.

01:10:13.000 But the thing is, them putting me in a state that doesn't require a scan doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to get approved because these other commissions have a responsibility to speak up and say, hey, we don't think it's of his best interest health-wise to compete.

01:10:30.000 And I'm not...

01:10:34.000 I'm not against the commission.

01:10:36.000 I totally understand and respect that.

01:10:38.000 Andy Foster is one of the very best in the business.

01:10:40.000 He's so ahead of everybody else.

01:10:42.000 And they opened up a time for me to come out next month and speak with them face-to-face and get to see the people that are making the decisions and learn more and understand more of their position and how they feel about it.

01:11:00.000 And I'm just trying to gather up as much information in the meantime.

01:11:04.000 Would it be possible to do that with Dr. Wong?

01:11:06.000 I hope so.

01:11:08.000 That's the plan.

01:11:08.000 And hopefully a few more.

01:11:12.000 That's what I'm working on.

01:11:13.000 That's what I'm in the middle of.

01:11:14.000 And until then, I'm just going to keep training and trying to stay positive.

01:11:19.000 Who do you have a match with, a jiu-jitsu match?

01:11:22.000 Well, it hasn't been announced yet, but I'm going to be facing...

01:11:25.000 I mean, it's about to come out.

01:11:27.000 It's less than a month away now.

01:11:28.000 February 21st, I'll be facing Roberto Cyborg in a no-gay grappling match. 1.00

01:11:34.000 He's a big fella.

01:11:35.000 Yes, yes.

01:11:36.000 What does that dude weigh?

01:11:38.000 Probably in the neighborhood of 240, maybe a little more.

01:11:43.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:11:44.000 We've had a few matches in the past, and he's a great guy.

01:11:47.000 He's a legend as well.

01:11:48.000 Just one of the best ever from my time, and it'll be fun.

01:11:54.000 And that's what I want to do in the meantime is keep myself sharp, keep competing, keep training, and hopefully get another opportunity.

01:12:02.000 But if not, at least learn more about this and hopefully inspire others to get checked out.

01:12:12.000 Even if you're not in a combat sport or doing anything risky, just like the same thing you would do to go get a checkup.

01:12:21.000 Hey, at some point in your life, it wouldn't hurt to get a scan done.

01:12:25.000 It just really opened my eyes.

01:12:28.000 To how we don't know what's going on up there.

01:12:32.000 And something could happen, you know, and you don't have an answer to it.

01:12:38.000 But if you knew what was in your brain, maybe you would have that answer.

01:12:42.000 Yeah, it seems like such a tricky situation to be in because if you do decide to do something about it, you really kind of almost have to do it now.

01:12:53.000 Because at 36, with a full year off of no sparring at all, Or he said six months to a year.

01:13:00.000 So he would have to see you a couple times, maybe do another scan and see where you're at.

01:13:03.000 Let's say six months.

01:13:05.000 Well, six months is like an ACL surgery.

01:13:06.000 Not that bad, right?

01:13:07.000 But a year is like, ooh, now we're into 37, 37 and a half.

01:13:11.000 And then you got to get in real tip-top shape again.

01:13:17.000 If you really wanted to fight again, it's funny.

01:13:19.000 I understand the doctor's position.

01:13:21.000 Why do the surgery if you don't experience symptoms?

01:13:24.000 But most people aren't fighters.

01:13:27.000 Yeah.

01:13:28.000 The thing is, though, it doesn't take away the fact that I have cavernoma.

01:13:31.000 There's multiple locations, and so just removing that one doesn't change.

01:13:38.000 So it's possible the commissions wouldn't change their evaluation just based on the scan with the other areas?

01:13:44.000 Exactly.

01:13:45.000 And is there anything that mitigates this?

01:13:46.000 Is there any medication or diet or anything that you can do?

01:13:52.000 I don't know about treatment like that for cavernoma specifically.

01:13:59.000 But I did see another doctor recently through the help of Justin Wren, Big Pygmy, Dr. Amen, who's actually a psychiatrist or psychologist by trait.

01:14:11.000 And then he, you know, kind of went into studying the brain fully and he created the SPEC scan.

01:14:20.000 He's released numerous, you know, books that were New York Times bestsellers on TED Talks.

01:14:27.000 And I actually saw him just a little over a week ago.

01:14:31.000 And he has some different supplements that he recommends.

01:14:37.000 He also talked to me about using the hyperbaric chamber.

01:14:41.000 Not the hard shell hyperbaric chamber because he thinks that might be too much pressure.

01:14:47.000 But like the soft one that you can zip up.

01:14:50.000 He thinks could be beneficial.

01:14:52.000 But it's more just for...

01:14:55.000 Overall brain health, it might not really make too much difference of cavernoma specifically, but I'm going to do it.

01:15:04.000 I'm going to do whatever I can.

01:15:05.000 I want to be healthy, obviously, just for me and whether I get to fight or not.

01:15:13.000 But like I said, I'm just going to stay positive.

01:15:17.000 And in the meantime, look, I don't want to hold up the division.

01:15:20.000 Like, you know, I don't want to, you know, Bellator is being very kind with time as we're going through all of this.

01:15:30.000 But I understand, you know, there's guys out there that deserve to fight for the title.

01:15:35.000 And if they need to set up a fight to determine the new champion, you know, I understand.

01:15:44.000 You know, I'm going to be over here doing everything I can.

01:15:47.000 To hopefully get approved to come back.

01:15:50.000 But like I said, it's sort of an indefinite retirement.

01:15:53.000 I'm just working through this.

01:15:55.000 And as people see me competing, I didn't want them to think that I'm just not trying to defend my belt or whatever.

01:16:02.000 When Bellator, if they have to move forward and make another fight for the belt and people wondering what's going on with me, this is it.

01:16:10.000 This is what I'm dealing with.

01:16:12.000 And through this, I'm just hoping to Help others that might have the same condition.

01:16:17.000 Have there been any cases of people with Cavernova that have gone into remission?

01:16:24.000 I'm not sure.

01:16:26.000 I'm not sure.

01:16:27.000 I don't know.

01:16:31.000 I don't know.

01:16:33.000 The doctors didn't talk to you about that?

01:16:35.000 Mm-mm.

01:16:36.000 No?

01:16:36.000 Mm-mm.

01:16:37.000 You didn't ask that?

01:16:38.000 No.

01:16:39.000 That would be the first thing I would ask.

01:16:41.000 Has anybody ever made this go away?

01:16:45.000 Yeah, I don't think that's possible.

01:16:47.000 It just is what it is.

01:16:49.000 Yeah, I mean, there's...

01:16:50.000 I wish I should have brought in the pictures.

01:16:53.000 I have several little spots all over.

01:16:57.000 Yeah, I'd like to see it.

01:16:58.000 All over.

01:16:59.000 They're actually in my car.

01:17:01.000 Where's your car?

01:17:02.000 Right outside.

01:17:03.000 Go get it.

01:17:04.000 We'll wait.

01:17:05.000 Okay, I'm sorry.

01:17:06.000 No worries, man.

01:17:06.000 Go wait.

01:17:07.000 No worries.

01:17:09.000 Gotta see it, right?

01:17:11.000 I mean, how often do you get a chance to look at a dude's brain?

01:17:14.000 I'm scared to go into my brain, dude.

01:17:16.000 I bet there's like pitchforks in there and shit.

01:17:19.000 All sorts of...

01:17:20.000 Like, sometimes I wonder...

01:17:24.000 I was Googling it.

01:17:25.000 There's something called a gamma knife surgery.

01:17:29.000 Gamma knife surgery?

01:17:30.000 Yeah, that might...

01:17:31.000 Is your girl going to go get it for you? 0.99

01:17:33.000 Okay.

01:17:34.000 Jamie just found you an option.

01:17:36.000 Well, I don't know.

01:17:37.000 Hey, I'm no doctor here.

01:17:38.000 He's a doctor.

01:17:39.000 He just sidelines as a producer.

01:17:42.000 Without cutting open directly, I think it's some sort of radiation treatment.

01:17:45.000 Oh.

01:17:46.000 It looked crazy.

01:17:48.000 Gamma knife treatment?

01:17:53.000 I need to bring you to some witch doctor. 1.00

01:17:57.000 I mean, I can't imagine what you're going through, man, and what you have gone through.

01:18:01.000 Oh, Jesus Christ.

01:18:03.000 And then you go into a machine like this.

01:18:05.000 What the fuck?

01:18:07.000 Okay, so folks that are just listening to this, it says brain stereotactic radio surgery at the Mayo Clinic, and it looks essentially like an MRI machine.

01:18:17.000 And they got this guy bolted down, his head is kind of screwed into this fucking harness, so I guess he can't move.

01:18:24.000 And they roll you into this machine, and what does this machine do?

01:18:28.000 I think it then does this.

01:18:29.000 I saw this picture in another video of it where I guess radiation just hammers your head.

01:18:34.000 I'm planning on going to this place, the Mayo Clinic.

01:18:37.000 They're going to make you smarter.

01:18:38.000 That's what's going to happen with that.

01:18:39.000 You're going to get superpowers and shit.

01:18:41.000 How dope would that be if you came out? 0.96

01:18:43.000 If you came out of that and you could read people's minds, would you tell?

01:18:47.000 I wouldn't tell anybody.

01:18:48.000 I don't think I would either.

01:18:49.000 If I came out and I'd read people's minds, I'd just shut my mouth and just let all these assholes lie to me.

01:18:55.000 That's a crazy looking machine, man.

01:18:57.000 The harness on the head.

01:18:59.000 Holy shit, that looks uncomfortable.

01:19:01.000 Go to that lady. 1.00

01:19:03.000 That lady right there with the white thing. 1.00

01:19:04.000 She looks so uncomfortable.

01:19:06.000 Look at her.

01:19:07.000 She's like, going out my head.

01:19:11.000 Yeah.

01:19:12.000 Are you girls at the door?

01:19:14.000 Okay.

01:19:15.000 Alright, here we go.

01:19:15.000 We got the scans of Raphael's brain.

01:19:18.000 Dun, dun, dun.

01:19:24.000 So this is a treatment for cavernoma?

01:19:28.000 I was looking up cavernoma, yeah, and this popped up.

01:19:31.000 I don't know.

01:19:32.000 I'm sure since he's gone to see multiple doctors for it, that there's multiple treatments that are going on.

01:19:37.000 This seems to be one treatment for a variation of it.

01:19:40.000 That's interesting.

01:19:41.000 When you looked up, I just started digging down a hole, and this is what I found.

01:19:45.000 The fact that you can do that while producing a podcast is quite shocking, sir.

01:19:49.000 Kudos to you.

01:19:52.000 These are just the pictures.

01:19:53.000 Obviously, they look better on the disc.

01:19:56.000 Okay.

01:19:56.000 Oh, shit.

01:19:56.000 I can see it from here.

01:19:59.000 Wow, dude.

01:20:00.000 That's crazy.

01:20:01.000 Okay, folks.

01:20:02.000 Well, I'm looking...

01:20:03.000 Let me hold this up so people can see, particularly this one.

01:20:09.000 Is there any glare?

01:20:10.000 That's the one on the outside of the right.

01:20:13.000 That is a fucking big-ass spot on your brain.

01:20:17.000 Yeah, you can see there's a few in there, but that's the big boy.

01:20:22.000 But yeah, all in all, that doesn't look good.

01:20:25.000 And that's what I saw when I was on my way to Brazil going to train.

01:20:31.000 Especially, you're going to shoot the box.

01:20:32.000 That would freak me the fuck out.

01:20:34.000 You can see the little ones that are around, but they weren't too concerned of those yet.

01:20:43.000 It's the big one and a little bit of this one here that's more on the inside.

01:20:47.000 It's not big, big like that one, but...

01:20:51.000 No, all of these are on the outside of the brain.

01:20:54.000 No, just this one.

01:20:55.000 Some of them are inside the brain.

01:20:57.000 Yeah.

01:20:58.000 The inside of the brain is what would scare the shit out of me.

01:21:01.000 That's crazy to look at, man.

01:21:03.000 It's gotta be weird looking at the inside of your head and seeing all the stuff that makes you you.

01:21:10.000 All your personality, your memories, all your skills, all your knowledge.

01:21:16.000 All in there, and it's got weird spots on it.

01:21:20.000 Fuck, man.

01:21:21.000 Yeah.

01:21:22.000 That's crazy.

01:21:23.000 It's heavy.

01:21:24.000 It's still heavy, but I'm...

01:21:26.000 You should put that on your Instagram.

01:21:29.000 Well, this is my coming out party, I guess you could say.

01:21:33.000 Fuck, man.

01:21:34.000 That spot's creeping me out.

01:21:36.000 But this is a hereditary thing that the extreme ends are you live with this and it's never a problem your whole life.

01:21:44.000 The other side is it's a problem right from the beginning and you have to have multiple surgeries and bad things happen.

01:21:51.000 People go into comas.

01:21:54.000 Seizures, even death.

01:21:56.000 And so, you know, you could have this and not have any idea about it, obviously, just like me.

01:22:06.000 And so in so many ways, the fact that I fought, you know, helped me.

01:22:12.000 because it was required for me to get this done.

01:22:15.000 And thankfully, I found out now before anything happened, but I want to learn more and try to understand this and see, you know, because so many people say, I mean, look, I can show you the doctor letter from Dr. Wong I can show you the doctor letter from Dr. Wong and look at the percentages that he's talking about here of, You know, 0.25%, you know, I don't know if you want to read it.

01:22:45.000 So his concern is that Well, he doesn't have a concern.

01:22:51.000 The Athletic Commission's concern is that the European Commission has rejected you, and then California is taking the opinions of a panel of doctors, some pro, some con.

01:23:05.000 But you think that this Dr. Wong guy is the one who knows the most about it?

01:23:10.000 He's the first one that I found.

01:23:12.000 He's definitely the one that I've talked to that is the only one I've talked to that's actually been in there, seen it.

01:23:17.000 Done surgeries on people and help people continue their careers that have it.

01:23:21.000 And you said boxers and football players?

01:23:23.000 Yes, NFL players.

01:23:25.000 He mentions that in his letter.

01:23:29.000 What about jujitsu?

01:23:31.000 Are you concerned at all that jujitsu with the, you know, the heart?

01:23:35.000 No, no.

01:23:37.000 I mean, of course, there's us accidentally butting heads or an elbow or something.

01:23:44.000 But no, but believe me, that day that a doctor did say that, you know, a choke or a strangle Would be dangerous.

01:23:56.000 And I had the thoughts running through my mind of never being able to do jiu-jitsu again.

01:24:00.000 You're such a geek guy.

01:24:02.000 You want to choke like this.

01:24:04.000 I'm totally...

01:24:05.000 Well, I'm both.

01:24:06.000 Well, you're both, for sure.

01:24:07.000 I've done a lot of that, too.

01:24:08.000 I know, but you automatically went...

01:24:10.000 Look at these hands, man.

01:24:11.000 That's from Gi.

01:24:13.000 Wow.

01:24:14.000 This thing in my hand.

01:24:15.000 What is that?

01:24:16.000 It's like a ruptured tendon or something.

01:24:19.000 I don't know.

01:24:20.000 It just burst and you just left it that way?

01:24:21.000 Yeah, basically.

01:24:22.000 It was like almost 10 years ago.

01:24:24.000 Someone broke my grip and it popped.

01:24:26.000 But for me, it's like I train with my dad.

01:24:30.000 You know what I mean?

01:24:31.000 We roll together.

01:24:33.000 My family teaching.

01:24:36.000 All my students...

01:24:39.000 But jujitsu, that's going to be there forever.

01:24:45.000 It took a lot of soul searching and talking and just sort of meditating and getting to a place where, because working so hard to get to this point, You know, and seeing those big shows and finally, you know, going to start getting paid well, you know what I mean?

01:25:06.000 Like working up to that point.

01:25:07.000 Yeah, you're the champ now.

01:25:07.000 Yeah, I just got a new academy and definitely was thinking that, you know, the championship fight paychecks were going to help pay off the investment that I put into the school, you know, and just different things that I, you know, have worked so hard for, but I felt like it was kind of getting taken away from me.

01:25:25.000 And I had to really process and talk to all my loved ones and And I've gotten to a place where I know I'm going to be fine if I never get to fight again.

01:25:36.000 I still have so many things to be grateful for.

01:25:38.000 Life is amazing.

01:25:40.000 And I just want to now...

01:25:42.000 You know, learn more and hopefully through this experience help others that may have this condition or something else if I can just help people get a scan, you know, and just know and be able to rest assured that they're okay or learn to find out that maybe they have something that they need to take care of in their brain.

01:25:59.000 Now is this a condition that will require you to get regular evaluations to make sure it's not progressing?

01:26:05.000 Yes.

01:26:06.000 So how often do you have to do that now?

01:26:08.000 I think at least once a year, if not every six months, just to see if there are growing or new bundles come together or whatever.

01:26:17.000 I'd really like to know if people have cured it or if anyone has ever gone into a period of remission where those things went away.

01:26:27.000 Yeah, I've never seen or heard anything like that.

01:26:30.000 Yeah.

01:26:32.000 Yeah.

01:26:33.000 And they don't know what causes it.

01:26:35.000 It's just some sort of strange genetic issue.

01:26:37.000 Yeah, I think it's hereditary.

01:26:38.000 And I believe it's, from what I've read, it's more common in the Hispanic community.

01:26:44.000 And that's the doctor that I saw in UCLA. He said that in...

01:26:48.000 He brought up being there in LA that he's seen a lot of Hispanics with it, boxers. 1.00

01:26:54.000 But they were able to continue fighting.

01:26:56.000 So I wonder how that worked.

01:27:01.000 And that's what I'm trying to learn about and figure out and see if it's safe or not.

01:27:06.000 I don't want to do anything dangerous to my health.

01:27:10.000 But if it's possible and it can be done in a safe way, I definitely...

01:27:15.000 I just now feel like I'm tapping into my MMA black belt level now.

01:27:22.000 So if doctors come to a new, more in-depth understanding of this disease and what the consequences or the risks are, it may be possible that they would say, you know what, we were a little bit hasty or we didn't have all the facts.

01:27:37.000 Now that we do, we feel like you could fight.

01:27:40.000 I think so.

01:27:41.000 That's what I'm hoping for.

01:27:43.000 That's what I'm trying for.

01:27:44.000 And this Mayo Clinic thing that you said you're going to visit, are they supposed to do that same thing to you?

01:27:49.000 That crazy Bruce Banner thing?

01:27:53.000 I don't know.

01:27:54.000 I don't think so.

01:27:55.000 I should ask them to do it just for the fun of it.

01:27:57.000 Just find out what they can do.

01:27:59.000 Yeah, I'm just going to keep trying to see the best people that I can.

01:28:02.000 And so is there a guy, like a nationwide guy, like one person that stands out that's a cavernoma expert that you should see or have you seen basically those guys yet?

01:28:13.000 Not that I know of.

01:28:14.000 I mean, the Mayo Clinic was definitely brought up.

01:28:18.000 UCLA, which I've already been.

01:28:20.000 There is another doctor that works at UCLA that now specializes in pediatric neurology.

01:28:28.000 So, you know, he deals with kids now.

01:28:31.000 But he was on the Athletic Commission.

01:28:35.000 He was on the board.

01:28:36.000 He's one of their doctors for like 10 years.

01:28:39.000 And we just found out about him.

01:28:41.000 And I'm trying to get in to see him.

01:28:43.000 As well, to get more light on people that actually have, you know, sort of experience dealing with combat athletes that may have this condition.

01:28:56.000 And...

01:28:59.000 You know, just get more knowledge and see what's possible, what's safe for me.

01:29:06.000 And like I said, if I don't get to fight again, I'm now in a good place to be able to accept that and move forward.

01:29:13.000 But I'm hoping that I do, even if I'm 40, even if it takes that long and I can just do one more so I can...

01:29:20.000 I can say goodbye, you know, on my own terms, you know, and have one more ride with my family, with my team.

01:29:28.000 You know, if that's what it takes, that's what I'm going to do.

01:29:33.000 I just would love to have one more, at least, if it's safe.

01:29:37.000 You've got to take some...

01:29:39.000 Good feeling out of the fact that you were able to overcome that camp because that seems like probably one of the most trying times of your career I mean that that's to do go through all that to find out about that while you're flying to Curitiba blow your hamstring out get through all that stuff and still Be Gagor Monsasi to win the title.

01:29:58.000 I mean that it is that is an amazing accomplishment Thank you.

01:30:02.000 Thank you, but it wasn't just me.

01:30:04.000 That's you know, that's a what I really wanted to get out there like If it wasn't for my loved ones, man, there's no way.

01:30:12.000 There's no way I would have got through that.

01:30:15.000 They gave me the strength.

01:30:16.000 They uplifted me when I needed them.

01:30:21.000 I felt like it was all of us.

01:30:25.000 And I just wanted to make them proud.

01:30:29.000 I wanted to be the one that made them world champion coaches.

01:30:36.000 My Muay Thai MMA coach, Mauricio, He is so good, so special.

01:30:41.000 And I wanted him to be able to say, I've coached someone to be a world champion.

01:30:46.000 You know, he deserved it.

01:30:47.000 I wanted to be the first Hiberto Shujutsu MMA world champion representative.

01:30:53.000 You know, it was family.

01:30:56.000 You know, we did that together.

01:30:58.000 And, you know, I'm just forever, ever grateful for them.

01:31:03.000 And you did it against arguably one of the toughest guys in Bellator, if not in the world, in that division.

01:31:10.000 I mean, Gegard Mousasi had beaten Chris Weidman.

01:31:13.000 He's beaten so many top guys.

01:31:15.000 He's, in my opinion, one of the greatest middleweights of all time.

01:31:18.000 I mean, he's just a phenomenal fighter.

01:31:20.000 I was actually really bummed out when he went over to Bellator.

01:31:23.000 Because, you know, I saw the negotiations go south, and I was really hoping that he was going to stick around.

01:31:28.000 I wanted to see him fight for the title.

01:31:30.000 I wanted to see him versus Robert Whittaker.

01:31:32.000 I wanted to see him versus Yoel Romero.

01:31:35.000 So your accomplishment was even more impressive, considering that you beat that guy.

01:31:40.000 Thank you.

01:31:41.000 I appreciate it, man.

01:31:42.000 I'm bummed, man.

01:31:43.000 I'm bummed for you, but I'm also...

01:31:47.000 I'm also happy that you were able to pull off what you pulled off.

01:31:51.000 And you have your health.

01:31:54.000 And you can still compete in jiu-jitsu, which you obviously are incredibly accomplished at that as well.

01:31:59.000 And think about how we were supposed to fight in LA first.

01:32:04.000 Who knows if I would have gotten improved there.

01:32:07.000 And then this doctor from Ireland somehow missed it.

01:32:11.000 He wasn't a part of the panel and the discussions before the fight.

01:32:16.000 It really was destiny that I was able to do that fight.

01:32:19.000 And I'm just so grateful.

01:32:21.000 That it happened.

01:32:22.000 And obviously, I'm very happy that I won.

01:32:25.000 But either way, the where I had to dig to be successful in that fight and the experience, the journey, learning so much about myself and the ride that we did.

01:32:40.000 I mean, we had this dinner the night before the fight and after the weigh-ins and everything with all my most cherished loved ones, you know.

01:32:49.000 And they didn't know.

01:32:50.000 They didn't know.

01:32:52.000 Most of them didn't know.

01:32:53.000 Just a couple of them.

01:32:55.000 And everyone took a minute to say something special about the process and, you know, me getting to this point and, you know, they're my wrestling coach and jiu-jitsu.

01:33:08.000 Salah was there.

01:33:09.000 You know, all these people, my parents, my girl, like, they all said something special about The family that we have, us being together, and then me, you know, getting to that moment.

01:33:24.000 And everyone cried, you know.

01:33:26.000 Everyone took a minute and everyone cried.

01:33:28.000 And, you know, that is something that will live with me for the rest of my life.

01:33:34.000 I'm just so grateful that it happened and we got to be there.

01:33:42.000 Because there's so many factors where maybe it wouldn't have happened.

01:33:46.000 If we would have fought in LA the first time, who knows if I would have gotten approved.

01:33:50.000 But it went to London and somehow this doctor didn't see it.

01:33:57.000 Does the party think it might be better if he didn't fight again?

01:34:00.000 Even if the doctor did approve it, does part of you think, why risk this?

01:34:07.000 I can't say that I haven't thought that.

01:34:13.000 But I feel like with the ones that are saying that it's okay, it's just confusing.

01:34:19.000 It's confusing.

01:34:20.000 I've been very confused for months.

01:34:24.000 But that's why I just want to learn more.

01:34:27.000 And Joe, I hope...

01:34:28.000 Here very soon you get a scan done, too.

01:34:31.000 You know, I hope everyone out there does.

01:34:34.000 No, I really should.

01:34:35.000 I think we all should.

01:34:35.000 I think you're absolutely right.

01:34:36.000 I think that's very good advice, especially coming from someone like you that just experienced this incredible turnaround in your life, this big twist of fate.

01:34:45.000 So Bellator is aware of where you stand.

01:34:49.000 Have they talked to you about stepping down and about having a new title fight or are they prolonging it and waiting to see with more results and more different doctors weigh in on us?

01:35:01.000 We had a good conversation yesterday.

01:35:03.000 I got together with Scott and Rich and we all sat down and you know once again they're being super supportive Scott's like, man, keep fighting this thing.

01:35:14.000 Keep seeing more doctors and let's learn more and see what's possible.

01:35:22.000 And they've been very generous with the time and not saying anything to anybody.

01:35:28.000 And they were okay with me taking more time.

01:35:32.000 But I told them that I felt like this was the best route because I'm I'm also sort of pleading to anyone out there, if you have a lot of great minds on the show and a lot of great minds listening to this show, if there's some doctors, some neurologists, some neurosurgeons out there that have experience and would like to get involved in this process, Please reach out.

01:35:53.000 I would love to hear it.

01:35:57.000 But they're supportive.

01:36:00.000 And they're willing to wait a little longer.

01:36:05.000 Or they were.

01:36:06.000 And I said, hey, I want to put this out there now.

01:36:11.000 And so, who knows?

01:36:13.000 I'm kind of giving them the green light if they want to do something different here coming up in the spring and set up another title fight.

01:36:19.000 In my opinion, it should be Salter and Musashi for the 185. Salter has definitely earned his shot.

01:36:26.000 He just got a big win.

01:36:27.000 And if they did that, I would think those are the two most deserving people to fight for a vacant title.

01:36:34.000 But, you know, like I said, I'm just going to be over here.

01:36:38.000 This is what I'm doing.

01:36:39.000 I just want to let everyone know this is what I'm going through and what I'm working on.

01:36:42.000 And I hope to be back in a healthy way that everyone's confident with and, you know, rest assured.

01:36:50.000 But if not, you know, then I will have to be saying goodbye officially at some point.

01:36:58.000 But I believe that there's some things for me to still do with the company.

01:37:04.000 With Bellator, Scott was open with the idea of me being some sort of ambassador.

01:37:11.000 And in the meantime, all the other MMA fighters out there that are fighting...

01:37:18.000 That I've never had a scan done in places that don't require it.

01:37:21.000 You know, hey, please get checked out.

01:37:26.000 Get checked out.

01:37:27.000 And just know, you know, whether it's this or something else, you don't know, you know.

01:37:32.000 And, man.

01:37:35.000 Don't take your health for granted.

01:37:36.000 Don't take your health for granted.

01:37:38.000 Well, listen, brother, you handled all this with grace and dignity like a true champion.

01:37:42.000 And I'm honored that you could come on here to tell everybody about this.

01:37:45.000 And I think you probably did a lot of people a really good service.

01:37:49.000 I'm sure there's many, many people that are listening to this right now that are probably going to go out and get scanned.

01:37:53.000 I hope so.

01:37:54.000 And hopefully will prevent some tragedy from happening.

01:37:58.000 But best of luck to you and everything and your jiu-jitsu matches and your new academy.

01:38:04.000 Tell everybody where that is.

01:38:05.000 Sure, yeah.

01:38:06.000 So we just opened up a new location in Oklahoma City.

01:38:10.000 Closed down the other one.

01:38:11.000 It's a big upgrade.

01:38:13.000 10,000 square foot.

01:38:15.000 Just beautiful, beautiful place.

01:38:16.000 There's still some work to be done.

01:38:18.000 Over this next month, but man, we're so excited.

01:38:21.000 And just to see my students smiling and happy and excited about the new location and the new beautiful mats and everything is just really, it's been my focus to help get me through a lot of this.

01:38:34.000 How do people find it?

01:38:36.000 OKBJJ.com.

01:38:38.000 Yeah, we're on the north side of Oklahoma City.

01:38:42.000 405-466-5255 is our number.

01:38:46.000 We should let people know it's not just okay.

01:38:47.000 It's Oklahoma.

01:38:48.000 That's why it's okay.

01:38:49.000 It's fucking awesome jujitsu.

01:38:52.000 That's a good point.

01:38:53.000 You're like, how good is your martial arts?

01:38:54.000 That's okay.

01:38:54.000 We're okay martial arts.

01:38:56.000 Yeah.

01:38:56.000 Okay for Oklahoma.

01:38:58.000 That is on the license plate, actually.

01:39:00.000 It'll say, Oklahoma is okay.

01:39:02.000 And I'm like, come on, we can do better than that.

01:39:03.000 Yeah, that's definitely, you can do better than that.

01:39:05.000 But anyway, brother, thank you and best of luck to you.

01:39:08.000 Thank you so much for this opportunity.

01:39:08.000 Thanks for being here, man.

01:39:09.000 Appreciate it.

The Joe Rogan Experience - March 15, 2011

JRE MMA Show #89 with Rafael Lovato Jr

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript