The Joe Rogan Experience - April 18, 2011


JRE MMA Show #99 with Francis Ngannou


Episode Stats

Length

3 hours and 30 minutes

Words per Minute

139.67236

Word Count

29,415

Sentence Count

3,029

Misogynist Sentences

15

Hate Speech Sentences

43


Summary

In this episode, I sit down with UFC Heavyweight champion, Francis Ngannou. We talk about his early life growing up in a small village in France, how he got into martial arts, and how he went on to become the first black man to ever fight for the UFC's Heavyweight Championship. We also talk about how he became a better English speaker, and what it's like being a black belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu, which is one of the most advanced martial arts in the history of the sport, as well as some of the challenges he faced in his early career, and some of his biggest mistakes he made along the way. I hope you enjoy this episode and that you learn something new about Francis, and that it makes you think about what it means to be Black in the UFC. I know that it's a crazy ride, and I can't wait to see what he has to say about it in the next episode! I'm looking forward to seeing what he's up to in the future, so don't miss it! Cheers, Joe! <3 -Jon Sorrentino -Jon & Joe <333 -Jon and Joe -The Best Podcasts of the Week: The Best Podcast on the Internet: Jon & Joe's Best Podcast: The Fight Game Podcasts: & The Best Fight Game: UFC: The Ultimate Fighter: Ultimate Beast of the Decade, UFC: UFC vs. Cowboy Cerrillos & UFC 246, UFC 246 & UFC Fight Night: UFC 246. - The Ultimate Beast, UFC 232, UFC 27, UFC 28, UFC 26, UFC 31, UFC 29, UFC 32, UFC 33, UFC 37, UFC 39, UFC 40, UFC 41, UFC 42, UFC 43, UFC 47, UFC 45, UFC 48, UFC 49, UFC 50, UFC 51, UFC 52, UFC 56, UFC 57, UFC 53, UFC 54, UFC 60, UFC 58, UFC Championship, UFC 61, UFC 63, UFC 62, UFC 67, UFC 64, UFC 68, UFC 1, UFC 69, UFC 72, UFC 70, UFC 76, UFC 73, UFC 75, UFC 83, UFC 80, UFC 78, UFC 74, UFC 81, UFC 71, UFC 79, UFC Stadium, UFC 89, UFC 86, UFC 88, UFC 85, UFC 90, UFC 82, UFC Night, UFC 87, UFC Fight Weekend, UFC 84, UFC 365, UFC 91, UFC 162, UFC HQ, UFC Seoul, UFC 128, UFC Hall of Fame, and UFC Championship Challenge, UFC 194, UFC City, UFC 189, UFC 161, UFC 311, UFC 182, UFC No. 1 and UFC Stadium.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Welcome, Francis.
00:00:15.000 Thank you, Joe.
00:00:16.000 I'm glad we finally did this.
00:00:17.000 Oh, finally.
00:00:18.000 Well, your English has improved drastically.
00:00:22.000 Thank you.
00:00:23.000 I think that's why I wanted to wait a little bit before I come.
00:00:28.000 I'm like, well, I'm not sure if I will handle that.
00:00:31.000 You know, sometimes I listen to the podcast, and I'm like, basically, when you're talking about different podcasts, different topics, I'm kind of like lost some time.
00:00:42.000 Like, okay, what does this mean?
00:00:44.000 What does that mean?
00:00:45.000 You know, but now I feel a little bit comfortable.
00:00:50.000 Well, it's easy to talk to you now.
00:00:52.000 I remember when you first went to the UFC, I interviewed you, and you didn't know what the fuck I was saying.
00:01:01.000 Growing up, I went to school, like elementary school and middle school, and we were learning English.
00:01:12.000 I know some few words like water and stuff, but just my accent was just so different than when I came here, my first UFC event was in Orlando.
00:01:22.000 And I couldn't even hear people like water.
00:01:27.000 Like the accent was just so different.
00:01:29.000 I'm like, what the hell is going on?
00:01:31.000 I can't catch any wall.
00:01:32.000 You know, it was just crazy.
00:01:34.000 How long have you been in America now?
00:01:37.000 Three years and a half.
00:01:39.000 That's pretty impressive that you picked up.
00:01:41.000 No, permanently, because I travel a lot, but total is like two years and a half.
00:01:47.000 And you were in France for how long before that?
00:01:50.000 Four years.
00:01:51.000 When you were in Cameroon, what language did they speak in Cameroon?
00:01:54.000 Mainly we speak French in general, and just in our village that we speak our dialect.
00:02:01.000 Oh, okay.
00:02:02.000 So you know the dialect from the village, and then French, and then English.
00:02:06.000 Well, I'm learning English.
00:02:07.000 Well, we're talking.
00:02:08.000 We're talking in English.
00:02:09.000 So you can speak English a lot better than I can speak French.
00:02:12.000 Well, I still have some lacunes in English, but getting there.
00:02:17.000 Yeah.
00:02:17.000 So this has been a wild ride for you, huh?
00:02:20.000 Yeah, it's been a long road.
00:02:22.000 Nobody could have imagined basically from looking back from my life that we're going to get here.
00:02:30.000 Today I have to talk with great people around the world, such as you, and being the biggest podcast ever.
00:02:43.000 And to be about to fight for the UFC heavyweight championship of the world, too.
00:02:47.000 For the second time.
00:02:48.000 For the second time, yeah.
00:02:50.000 The redemption.
00:02:50.000 The redemption.
00:02:51.000 What was the first time like for you?
00:02:53.000 What was the feeling of the first fight like for you?
00:02:57.000 Oh, I had two different feelings from that fight.
00:03:03.000 First, obviously, I was very upset and disappointed that I didn't win the fight.
00:03:11.000 And, you know, as everyone who is fighting for the title, we want to get out there as victorious.
00:03:19.000 But to be honest, I always look in that fight and since the fight day, just after the fight, I look at it and I'm like, this is good.
00:03:31.000 I learned just too much in that fight.
00:03:36.000 Because even though I was in the level of fighting for the world title, I still have some missing parts in my game and in my experience.
00:03:50.000 I remember I was asking myself, How did it look like to go into three rounds?
00:03:58.000 Basically, I'm going to a potential five rounds that I've never been in three rounds.
00:04:03.000 How did it look like?
00:04:05.000 How is it to prepare for this kind of fight?
00:04:08.000 And I had this fight like six weeks earlier.
00:04:14.000 So I was having a lot of questions.
00:04:17.000 Then after that fight at night, I'm like, okay, I get it.
00:04:21.000 Yeah, it's a very big learning experience, right?
00:04:26.000 Because you were smashing everybody.
00:04:27.000 You were knocking everybody out.
00:04:29.000 So you had these very quick fights.
00:04:31.000 Yes, very quick rides and didn't spend enough time in the octagon to have those experiences, even though I was almost like...
00:04:43.000 He was almost four years, three years and a half since I've been doing the sport, but didn't spend enough time in the octagon to have that experience.
00:04:54.000 I think in one night, I covered more than what I've been spending in the octagon for the rest of my career.
00:05:05.000 No, I'm sure.
00:05:06.000 It's got to be a difficult thing to figure out how to pace yourself for a five-round fight when you've only been knocking people out quickly before that.
00:05:16.000 Yeah.
00:05:17.000 Also, you know, some people get here while they're being proficient, while they've been having at least at least lives for a long time, maybe wrestling, maybe doing some different sport at school or at college.
00:05:35.000 But I never get into that stuff, you know?
00:05:38.000 Growing up, I was just like finding my way to survive.
00:05:42.000 Then I end up finding myself in somewhere that I never been there.
00:05:50.000 So the experience was just crazy.
00:05:53.000 How old were you when you had your first training, your first martial arts training?
00:05:57.000 Oh, that was in summer, October 2013. That was my first match.
00:06:02.000 Wow.
00:06:02.000 So just eight years ago.
00:06:04.000 Yeah.
00:06:05.000 And two years after that, I was fighting my first fight in the UFC. And I remember, basically, at first, when I went in the martial art, it was just for fun, for curiosity.
00:06:16.000 I'm like, oh, it's fun.
00:06:17.000 Oh, it's good.
00:06:18.000 I like those kick shit.
00:06:20.000 You know?
00:06:21.000 But...
00:06:23.000 I didn't like seeing myself being a UFC fighter and people was like, oh, if you put yourself into this, you can become a UFC fighter and a UFC champion.
00:06:36.000 You can have a UFC belt wrapped around your waist.
00:06:39.000 I'm like, whatever.
00:06:40.000 I don't care about it until I have the UFC contract.
00:06:45.000 Two years after that, I'm like, okay, this might be the opportunity that I have been looking for.
00:06:52.000 So it's time to capitalize and showcase my talent and show the world.
00:06:59.000 How many fights did you have before you fought in the UFC? Six fights.
00:07:03.000 Six fights.
00:07:03.000 And did you have them all in France?
00:07:05.000 A few fights in France.
00:07:08.000 Just four in France.
00:07:10.000 I had four fights in France.
00:07:12.000 And, you know, in France, the ground and pound is not allowed.
00:07:16.000 When he goes, that was back then because MMA was illegal.
00:07:21.000 So when he goes on the ground, he's just turned into grappling games.
00:07:26.000 Really?
00:07:27.000 Yeah.
00:07:28.000 So I had four fights in France, one in Switzerland and one in Bahrain.
00:07:36.000 Bahrain.
00:07:37.000 So when did they find out about you?
00:07:38.000 How did UFC find out about you?
00:07:40.000 That was my coach, Fernand, by the time he was working with a manager named Thiago, a Brazilian guy.
00:07:50.000 So they kind of like push.
00:07:53.000 Thiago has a connection with...
00:07:56.000 I mean, he was a manager, so Fernand was all the time sending him text messages and videos that he would...
00:08:07.000 Forward to the UFC. And I was still like, yes, but he hasn't fought nobody tough yet.
00:08:14.000 Yeah, he hasn't got a real test yet.
00:08:18.000 Until I fought this guy in Bahrain named William Badulti.
00:08:24.000 And I knocked him out in the second round.
00:08:28.000 Then I get my UFC control right after that.
00:08:31.000 What was it like the first fight in the UFC? Was it different?
00:08:37.000 That was a crazy experience.
00:08:39.000 You know, I didn't even know the rules back then.
00:08:43.000 I remember I was in Orlando and I'm like, man, this is the time.
00:08:47.000 Like, I'm going to fight to be seen in the whole world, so this is the time to take my opportunity to showcase my talent, to prove that I can do something.
00:09:02.000 Then I'm like, okay, so what is this about?
00:09:07.000 MMA. How MMA works.
00:09:09.000 What is the rules?
00:09:10.000 How it goes?
00:09:11.000 And I couldn't get it.
00:09:13.000 Didn't know the rules.
00:09:14.000 Because you got used to no ground fighting, punching on the ground.
00:09:18.000 Because there's no ground found in France.
00:09:21.000 Yeah, even though I was just doing it for two years and remember at first it was just for fun.
00:09:26.000 So I didn't really was there to become a professional fighter.
00:09:31.000 You know, all I cared about at the time was boxing.
00:09:35.000 Then I found myself there in two years.
00:09:40.000 Then I'm like, okay, what is the rules again?
00:09:43.000 How it works?
00:09:45.000 Okay.
00:09:46.000 If you try to take me down, I can do this.
00:09:48.000 Like trying to figure all those out.
00:09:50.000 It was very stressful.
00:09:52.000 And I'm like, guess what?
00:09:54.000 At the end of the day, it's just fighting.
00:09:57.000 I mean, I don't know if this guy is doing some kung fu shit, but it's just fighting.
00:10:03.000 We're going to figure it out, you know?
00:10:05.000 It's just men between men, you know?
00:10:07.000 Yeah, we're going to figure it out.
00:10:09.000 I mean, you know, I'm a tough guy, you know, so I can handle it.
00:10:14.000 Why did you transition to MMA and not go into boxing?
00:10:18.000 It's not like a transition and I didn't have a choice.
00:10:21.000 I was doing MMA because when I went to France, I didn't have a paper, so I was illegal, so I couldn't work.
00:10:34.000 And I wanted so bad to do sport and I was doing boxing and MMA. But the MMA was the one that was more open and giving me opportunity.
00:10:46.000 Like having a UFC contract as an MMA fighter was a big deal.
00:10:51.000 And didn't have much, you know, like boxing war is kind of like a very complicated business.
00:10:58.000 You have to know somebody.
00:11:00.000 They have to like...
00:11:01.000 Line you up.
00:11:02.000 It's very complicated.
00:11:04.000 But MMA was just easy.
00:11:06.000 You know, people out there are like, who is that guy?
00:11:08.000 We want that guy.
00:11:09.000 It was pretty easy, MMA-wise.
00:11:13.000 Yeah, boxing, you have to be connected to the right promoter.
00:11:16.000 Yeah, and that takes time.
00:11:18.000 Yeah.
00:11:19.000 And basically, regarding my situation back then, I had a lot of oats, you know.
00:11:27.000 Coming from nowhere, nobody knows me with my accent.
00:11:30.000 And you know, in French, when you have accent, it's not a good thing.
00:11:35.000 It's not?
00:11:36.000 No.
00:11:37.000 What's it like over there?
00:11:39.000 It's frustrating because the way that they look at you when you speak with your accent, you know, you don't feel comfortable.
00:11:47.000 You can't, like, let yourself express yourself.
00:11:50.000 You just feel bad about yourself.
00:11:52.000 You know, just seeing some people's reactions sometimes.
00:11:57.000 And you didn't have a resident card.
00:12:01.000 You were, like, a migrant.
00:12:04.000 So together it was a tough situation to deal with, basically in the boxing business, because they're going to go see this promoter, talk about you, but who is that guy?
00:12:15.000 Where did he come from?
00:12:17.000 It's hard to have credit from someone.
00:12:21.000 Now, you came from Cameroon to France just to pursue fighting?
00:12:26.000 Oh yeah.
00:12:28.000 I mean, I didn't come from Cameroon to France.
00:12:33.000 I just left Cameroon.
00:12:36.000 And didn't even know where I was going.
00:12:39.000 I just know that I was looking for a field of opportunity.
00:12:47.000 And that's how I left because regarding my situation back then, I couldn't afford to apply for a visa.
00:12:56.000 You know, that was even unbelievable.
00:13:00.000 I couldn't even imagine that.
00:13:02.000 Visas are very expensive?
00:13:04.000 It's not expensive.
00:13:05.000 They have to check your life, your bank account, your job.
00:13:10.000 They have to know if you're capable of taking care of yourself out there and if you can come back.
00:13:17.000 Because they don't want you guys there with your misery.
00:13:22.000 So they did a lot of background check in Africa to approve your visa to come in Europe or in America.
00:13:33.000 And my situation wasn't the best.
00:13:37.000 I mean...
00:13:38.000 I didn't even have a bank account.
00:13:40.000 What for?
00:13:41.000 Half my few pounds, I just keep it in my house.
00:13:48.000 That's it.
00:13:48.000 It wasn't even enough to open a bank account.
00:13:52.000 But I still had to do something.
00:13:55.000 I feel that I had to do something.
00:13:57.000 How old were you then when you left?
00:13:59.000 I was 25. So you just had gotten to this point in your life where you knew you had to do something.
00:14:07.000 Yes, because it has been a long time.
00:14:10.000 I've been thinking about that for a very long time, looking for what I can do.
00:14:15.000 And over the years, I'm like, okay, at this point, I can't.
00:14:19.000 Just hoping something will happen.
00:14:21.000 A miracle won't happen right now.
00:14:24.000 You have to take action.
00:14:25.000 You have to do something.
00:14:26.000 Even though it's risky, you have to do it.
00:14:30.000 And that's when I decided to leave the country.
00:14:34.000 And you didn't have any martial arts training at all in Cameroon?
00:14:38.000 I started boxing a few years ago.
00:14:42.000 I left my village when I was 22. I was driving a motorcycle, doing taxi with motorcycle.
00:14:49.000 You know, like you see in Africa, people doing taxi.
00:14:52.000 You carry like three people behind you, sit on the fuel tank and just like driving them to some point.
00:15:00.000 And that's what I was doing.
00:15:02.000 So that's not like a big job.
00:15:06.000 So I couldn't have much money.
00:15:08.000 But since I was dreaming for boxing so bad, then...
00:15:14.000 I sold that to go to the city and finally boxing because I've been dreaming for boxing for over about 10 years, but there wasn't a gym like 50 miles around.
00:15:30.000 So I decided to sell my bike, my motorcycle and go to the city.
00:15:35.000 And by the time my family thought I was, people around thought I was going crazy, like, what the hell?
00:15:43.000 Like you have a job, you have a chance to have a job, to have a bike, you can feed yourself and maybe create your family, your own family and you say you're going to do this boxing.
00:15:55.000 What the hell is boxing?
00:15:57.000 Did you ever see somebody coming from here to succeed in boxing?
00:16:03.000 Then they will take some examples such as people like Wata Bele, Joseph Besala, Jean-Marie Mebe, which is people that was like a legend in combat sport in Cameroon.
00:16:17.000 But financially, they didn't succeed.
00:16:21.000 Their life wasn't a great example to lay on.
00:16:27.000 And that's why people were like, okay, those people had a chance to start sport when they were young, to be surrounded.
00:16:36.000 You're like 22 and I'm like, I'm going to do boxing.
00:16:40.000 You're old.
00:16:41.000 You're this.
00:16:41.000 You're old at 22. I'm like, you're old.
00:16:45.000 It's not possible.
00:16:46.000 And basically, even if you're able to make it as them, what?
00:16:52.000 You can even feed your family with, you know, I'm like, yeah, fact.
00:16:57.000 Point taken.
00:16:59.000 But, you know, I love this shit.
00:17:01.000 I'm just going to try it.
00:17:04.000 So you just had a desire?
00:17:06.000 Yeah, I just have a desire, you know.
00:17:08.000 Like, I couldn't picture myself doing something else without it.
00:17:14.000 I'm like, okay, it might don't work.
00:17:18.000 But I don't want to live with the regret of not trying, you know.
00:17:24.000 I have to try.
00:17:26.000 If I fail, it's okay.
00:17:28.000 I have a right to try and to fail, to start over, as everybody has that right.
00:17:33.000 So I can use my right, you know.
00:17:36.000 I have to try this.
00:17:37.000 At least, if it doesn't work, I won't blame myself someday that I should have done this, I should have done this, I should have tried.
00:17:49.000 I was just like, okay, I give my best.
00:17:52.000 It didn't work.
00:17:54.000 And that's why I started boxing.
00:17:59.000 It was so crazy.
00:18:01.000 Everybody around thought I lost my mind.
00:18:04.000 I'm like, what the hell is that?
00:18:06.000 Boxing?
00:18:08.000 You're going to get hit.
00:18:10.000 You're going to get sick.
00:18:12.000 You're going to end up with a Parkinson.
00:18:14.000 Your head shaking like this.
00:18:16.000 No money.
00:18:19.000 Seriously, take yourself, take your life seriously.
00:18:23.000 That's not serious.
00:18:25.000 And I'm like, yeah.
00:18:27.000 Maybe, but whatever.
00:18:29.000 At the end of the day, what truly matters, you know, at least I will do what I want for some time, what I love.
00:18:37.000 And if it doesn't work, you know, I still have some sort of satisfaction of doing it.
00:18:44.000 Are you aware that the amount of success that you've achieved has got to be very inspirational for other people that are in the same sort of situation that you were in?
00:18:54.000 When they hear your story and they know the people around them are questioning their desires too, you took a chance, a lot of chances.
00:19:04.000 Yeah.
00:19:05.000 And look, here you are about to fight again for the heavyweight championship.
00:19:09.000 I mean, it's a pretty amazing story.
00:19:12.000 Thank you.
00:19:12.000 Yes, I mean, I'm aware of that.
00:19:16.000 It didn't take me so long after I got in Europe to realize that.
00:19:24.000 Because I started to fight, to compete in France, and they were seeing me on TV and calling me or texting me like, Oh, we see somebody on the TV like you, but you have a Drake love, Lux.
00:19:43.000 That guy was exactly like you.
00:19:46.000 You know, I'm like, yeah, he might be me.
00:19:49.000 You know?
00:19:50.000 So, after a few fights, I'm like, damn, so that your boxing, that your boxing shit was serious.
00:19:58.000 You really like that thing?
00:19:59.000 I'm like, yes, guess what?
00:20:01.000 Yeah, yeah, I am.
00:20:03.000 And I'm like, Man, that means it's never late.
00:20:06.000 You know, I've been thinking of doing this and I always thought, I always think it's too late, I can't make it.
00:20:14.000 But I think right there, you just proved me wrong because I was even closer to my dream than yours.
00:20:22.000 And you still achieve yours.
00:20:24.000 So that means it's never late.
00:20:26.000 So let me try out.
00:20:27.000 I'm like, yeah, you should.
00:20:31.000 What's wrong?
00:20:31.000 I mean, if you fail, it's okay.
00:20:34.000 You have a right.
00:20:35.000 A lot of people fail over and over before succeed.
00:20:39.000 He always needs one shot to succeed.
00:20:42.000 But most people don't have the confidence to take chances like that.
00:20:46.000 Most people, they hear these people saying, oh, you're going to get Parkinson's, you're going to get sick, you're not going to make money, you're not going to be able to feed your family.
00:20:55.000 And they listen to those people.
00:20:58.000 Most people listen to the naysayers.
00:21:00.000 They listen to these doubters.
00:21:01.000 But you didn't.
00:21:02.000 How come?
00:21:03.000 I think that's a good part of being a stubborn kid.
00:21:07.000 LAUGHTER You know, growing up, I always had my own vision, my own point of view of things.
00:21:19.000 And in Africa, when you have your point of view, which is opposite to what your parents or your elders will have, It looks very bad.
00:21:34.000 You're a very bad kid.
00:21:36.000 Kids just have to obey whatever they are telling them.
00:21:40.000 And I'm like, okay, I would like to do this.
00:21:45.000 And all the time, they will tell me, this is not for us.
00:21:49.000 This is not possible for those people out there.
00:21:52.000 I'm like, yeah, but what do those people have more than us?
00:21:59.000 I'm like, listen, you should just set up.
00:22:02.000 Our life is like this.
00:22:03.000 You're going to be a farmer or a constructioner or this, like your parents.
00:22:10.000 You know, you can't.
00:22:12.000 You're just going to follow the family's footsteps.
00:22:15.000 And I'm like, yeah, but, you know, I can try something.
00:22:21.000 You know, he always take one shot to get there.
00:22:24.000 And I'm like, we tell you, it won't work.
00:22:27.000 Just forget about it.
00:22:30.000 And I'm like, yeah, I know.
00:22:33.000 But I can still try it, you know.
00:22:37.000 And I'm like, this kid never listened.
00:22:40.000 And I've always been like that.
00:22:42.000 Growing up, me and my brothers, my brother was the one that was going to obey, do exactly what the parents said.
00:22:50.000 He was a good kid, a great kid.
00:22:53.000 Obey about everything.
00:22:55.000 And I was just the opposite of him.
00:22:57.000 Bad kid!
00:22:58.000 You know, he end up to be at the point that when I get somewhere, everybody will change look up of his staff.
00:23:08.000 Like, this kid is so ambitious.
00:23:10.000 This kind of kid never end up stealing broken houses because the reality is not enough for them.
00:23:24.000 They just want something bigger.
00:23:28.000 And when you have that kind of dream, you overdream.
00:23:34.000 For easy money, for easy life, you're going to end up maybe drug dealer or house breaking or those stuff.
00:23:43.000 I'm like, listen, I just have my own point of view, which is different than yours.
00:23:49.000 That doesn't mean I'm a bad guy.
00:23:51.000 I knew I had a chance that, I don't know how, but At any moment in my life, I knew exactly what I wanted.
00:24:02.000 And that was clear in my mind.
00:24:05.000 I knew exactly how to get myself ready to gather those stuff whenever it shows up.
00:24:14.000 And this is from the time you were a boy.
00:24:16.000 You've always known exactly what you wanted.
00:24:18.000 You've always been stubborn like that.
00:24:20.000 Yeah, like that started, I was six years old when my parents divorced.
00:24:27.000 I went to my aunt and she has like a ton of kids and I was one among them.
00:24:34.000 It wasn't a great experience, but what I do learn there, and this is the first thing that I learned in my life, like people was coming over, I'm like, okay, who kid is this?
00:24:49.000 I'm like, Yes.
00:24:51.000 She was like, this is my sister, kids.
00:24:55.000 Your sister will marry to this guy.
00:24:58.000 She was like, yes.
00:24:59.000 I'm like, oh, this guy is so violent.
00:25:02.000 Oh, he's this, he's that.
00:25:04.000 And that's how they were talking about my dad.
00:25:07.000 So every time that they were talking about my dad, I was just ashamed of it.
00:25:12.000 I was just six years old.
00:25:13.000 Like, if I come into the room and they're talking about my dad, I'll just sneak, go back, and walk away.
00:25:22.000 Like, I don't want to be there.
00:25:24.000 Was your dad a fighter?
00:25:26.000 Not like a professional fighter, but he was violent, fighting, beating his wife up, my mom up, beating us up.
00:25:35.000 And that's even how they get divorced.
00:25:38.000 And from that moment, I didn't know.
00:25:42.000 I mean, I was six.
00:25:43.000 I didn't know nothing about life.
00:25:44.000 I didn't know what I want to become in life.
00:25:47.000 But from that moment, I knew something.
00:25:51.000 I don't want to become like my dad.
00:25:53.000 Like, shit.
00:25:55.000 I don't want this.
00:25:57.000 So, and it ended up pretty well for me because I always have that in front of, in my mind.
00:26:07.000 And that's helped me my entire life.
00:26:12.000 And that's why even today, thinking about my dad, he might be one of the irresponsible guys out there, irresponsible dad.
00:26:23.000 But believe me, this guy impacts my life than nobody else.
00:26:30.000 And I think, even in a better way, if he was a good dad, like, have us together, educate us, you know, sometimes you tell kids not to do something, you're like, why do they always want me not to do this?
00:26:45.000 They want to try that out, to see how it feels to do it, you know?
00:26:49.000 But I get it on my own, and that was for real.
00:26:53.000 My reputation was something to save.
00:26:56.000 And growing in Cameroon, we drink a lot of beer.
00:27:02.000 A lot.
00:27:04.000 And since I already had a dream of becoming a professional athlete, a boxer, I wanted to Even though I didn't have a chance to have a gym around, I never see a gym in life.
00:27:26.000 But I want to get myself ready to get a discipline.
00:27:33.000 So if ever the opportunity gets there, I will be able to gather it.
00:27:39.000 And that's why When my friend was drinking, I would never drink, never smoke because I'm like, I'm an athlete.
00:27:47.000 I already behaved myself as such.
00:27:50.000 Really?
00:27:51.000 Yeah.
00:27:51.000 Even when you were young?
00:27:52.000 Yeah.
00:27:53.000 You just had it in your head that you were going to be an athlete?
00:27:55.000 Yeah.
00:27:56.000 And that was clear in my mind.
00:27:58.000 Never.
00:27:58.000 Did you have any exercise routine that you did back then?
00:28:02.000 No.
00:28:02.000 Nothing?
00:28:02.000 No.
00:28:03.000 It was just my dream and I believed so much in that dream.
00:28:10.000 And it's crazy.
00:28:13.000 I don't know if it was me like just to over believe, but in some part of my mind it was clear that it's going to happen.
00:28:23.000 How?
00:28:24.000 Don't ask me.
00:28:25.000 One of the things that I read about you was that you worked in a sand mine when you were young, that you dug sand all day.
00:28:33.000 Yeah, that was growing up.
00:28:37.000 I was about 10 years old when I started that because I was in the village where I grew up.
00:28:45.000 After leaving my aunt's house, I went to my grandma.
00:28:49.000 And we had to, like, do something.
00:28:52.000 You know, we had to work to contribute at home, to buy oil, to buy food, and also for our scholarship, for books.
00:29:02.000 So we have to do, you have to work.
00:29:05.000 And that's how we started.
00:29:08.000 Even though that work was meant for adults, but we didn't have any options, so we take what we had at the time.
00:29:19.000 Growing up doing something like that, that's got to, first of all, it had to be very difficult.
00:29:25.000 Like, digging sand.
00:29:27.000 It's also, your body must develop very strong from doing something like that.
00:29:32.000 At 10 years old, like, as you're growing, as you're maturing, doing something that's that difficult, I mean, it must have made you really fucking strong.
00:29:41.000 Yeah.
00:29:42.000 Yeah, I hope so.
00:29:46.000 Obviously it did, but it's just genetics too.
00:29:49.000 There's a lot of good things that came your way that way.
00:29:52.000 But also the difficulty of doing something when you're that young, such hard labor.
00:29:57.000 I mean, it had to teach you discipline.
00:30:01.000 It's terrible that you had to do that at 10, but there had to be some positive aspects of it, some positive repercussions of it.
00:30:09.000 Oh, definitely.
00:30:12.000 I didn't like my life and I always feel like I miss my childhood.
00:30:20.000 There's something missing in it because there's been so much frustration in my life.
00:30:30.000 I had to work by that age and it wasn't enough.
00:30:35.000 When school starts all the time, I'm going to go to school and most of the time I still didn't have a pen to take notes or a notebook to write on it.
00:30:49.000 Sometimes no shoes or clothes, just have to wear.
00:30:53.000 My uniform was tear all over.
00:31:00.000 I was frustrated to look around and see other kids looking good, you know.
00:31:05.000 They went on vacation to this family member, came back with all brand new stuff and I was just there looking crappy with my I had to take my old book and look for an empty page to take a note, hoping that when I have a book, I will copy the note from this year in the new book.
00:31:29.000 But at first, I always had to use the old book.
00:31:34.000 And most of the time, teachers, they don't understand why you don't have a book.
00:31:39.000 They don't understand why you don't have a pen.
00:31:41.000 Sometimes they just think that you didn't tell your parents.
00:31:45.000 You should tell your parents so they can buy it for you.
00:31:50.000 They don't understand that you cannot just afford it.
00:31:54.000 Your parents can't.
00:31:56.000 And they will kick you out from the classroom.
00:32:00.000 Maybe just to say, go tell your parents.
00:32:04.000 And you couldn't tell them, we can't afford it?
00:32:06.000 You didn't want to say it?
00:32:09.000 They knew.
00:32:10.000 But what can they do?
00:32:13.000 Nothing.
00:32:13.000 Because most of the time, it's going to be even with the money that I work, that they're going to buy my pen or my book.
00:32:19.000 But you work sometimes and they don't pay you right away.
00:32:24.000 It's maybe after...
00:32:25.000 Months, months, you know, so all the process.
00:32:29.000 And sometimes they will just kick you out from the school because of the scholarship fee you haven't paid on time.
00:32:39.000 So they kick you out.
00:32:40.000 So I was a subject of shame to other kids.
00:32:46.000 Because all the time when they kick you out in front of 50, 60 students, it's not a good thing.
00:32:56.000 And I couldn't have a friend because you know how things work.
00:33:01.000 You have to be able to...
00:33:03.000 Bring something on the table to enjoy.
00:33:09.000 But since you don't even have a pen or a book to take notes, nobody expects you to bring a lunch or to buy something in the break time to share with them.
00:33:26.000 So they don't want to share with you since they don't have any hope that you have something to share with them.
00:33:32.000 And I was always in retreat.
00:33:35.000 I always stay in retreat.
00:33:36.000 And that's how I technically grew up by myself.
00:33:40.000 I end up not even trying to have a friend.
00:33:45.000 I'm like, okay, this is my situation.
00:33:47.000 Maybe I just...
00:33:48.000 I feel okay to just retreat myself, not just to try all the time and get shame of it all the time.
00:33:58.000 I always retreat and don't have to deal with these people, with their opinion on me.
00:34:06.000 But that motivated me at some point.
00:34:10.000 Look, these kids are looking at me like I'm worth nothing.
00:34:16.000 But technically, I'm worth more than them because I'm working.
00:34:23.000 Even though what I have is less than what they have, I deserve what I have.
00:34:30.000 I work hard for it.
00:34:31.000 And they don't deserve shit.
00:34:34.000 They are just kids.
00:34:36.000 They work and their parents provide for them.
00:34:40.000 I'm not just lucky to have the chance, but I'm still trying, which means I'm not bad at the end of the day, you know?
00:34:51.000 So that pushed me to, like, from there, I wanted something to prove them wrong.
00:35:00.000 I'm like, okay, I'm going to do something that's going to prove this kid that I'm not beneath them.
00:35:05.000 So that gave you motivation?
00:35:07.000 Yes, that gave me motivation because that frustration, I was full of frustration and I wanted to drive this into something.
00:35:16.000 I have to prove them.
00:35:18.000 I can't go to the party, I can't be between, I can't have friends as anyone and I have to work harder than anyone.
00:35:26.000 You know, my school was like My middle school was, I think, about six miles from home.
00:35:42.000 So it took me almost two hours to get at school.
00:35:46.000 So you walked?
00:35:47.000 Yeah, so I walked around about two hours.
00:35:50.000 And before I met the first student, it's at least after like 40 minutes work.
00:35:59.000 You know, so I have to wake up at five, just get ready, start work.
00:36:04.000 Sometimes with not eating.
00:36:07.000 Then I get to school and the school closed at maybe 4 to 5. But since I didn't eat in the morning by noon, 1 or 2, I'm hungry.
00:36:20.000 I'm starving.
00:36:20.000 I can't take it anymore.
00:36:22.000 I would leave school sometime, you know, just because I was hungry.
00:36:27.000 Or if I had a chance to have breakfast or something, I won't eat before I leave home because I know if I eat at 5 or 6, I'll get hungry early.
00:36:40.000 I'll take it at school to eat maybe around 10 so I can resist until the end.
00:36:47.000 And that's how I did it this entire time.
00:36:54.000 So my process was all different from other kids.
00:37:01.000 And nobody could understand that.
00:37:04.000 He was just on me.
00:37:06.000 And I was the only one knowing what I'm dealing with exactly to get there.
00:37:11.000 So, and all those things keep frustrating me.
00:37:16.000 I'm like, I'm going to show this.
00:37:18.000 I'm going to show them.
00:37:19.000 How long did you have to work in these sand mines?
00:37:24.000 Until I left school.
00:37:25.000 Until I left school, I was 17. And then I kept doing it.
00:37:31.000 So you did it from 10 to 17?
00:37:33.000 You did it all through school?
00:37:34.000 Yeah.
00:37:35.000 That was the only thing to do.
00:37:37.000 Right.
00:37:37.000 When did you do it?
00:37:39.000 Like if you went to school during the day, when did you work in the sand mines?
00:37:42.000 Over the weekend, over the holidays, because I never had a chance to go to holiday, even for the summer holiday, which is like three months.
00:37:56.000 That would be because we have a tropical climate.
00:38:00.000 So at that moment, we have two seasons, a wet season and a dry season.
00:38:06.000 And that's a wet season.
00:38:07.000 So it's almost rain all the time.
00:38:10.000 Kids go to vacation and all those stuff.
00:38:13.000 Adult doesn't want to work because it's raining all the time.
00:38:18.000 Guess what?
00:38:19.000 That was our opportunity when they don't want to work, so we have a chance to work.
00:38:26.000 Otherwise, they will come back to their job.
00:38:28.000 We will not have job.
00:38:31.000 So that was a good opportunity to work under the rain all the time.
00:38:36.000 Get back home shaking because all day long it's been raining, so you have to stay active.
00:38:42.000 Because as soon as you stop working, moving, you get cold.
00:38:47.000 You just get freezing.
00:38:48.000 So you get active.
00:38:50.000 It forces you to stay active and to work even more.
00:38:53.000 And our employer will love that because you work even more than normal.
00:39:00.000 And yeah, so that's how we do it.
00:39:05.000 And sometimes after school, I will stop at the sand mine if I have like a quick job.
00:39:12.000 Maybe if a truck comes and they have to load it.
00:39:17.000 If I have a place to load because you load, they give money to share.
00:39:21.000 You get something sometimes.
00:39:24.000 Sometimes not.
00:39:25.000 And when I was a kid, most of the time they kick you out.
00:39:29.000 Adults didn't want you on it.
00:39:31.000 I'm like, hey, get away off here.
00:39:34.000 Because the less they are, more money they get.
00:39:37.000 So they don't want you to fuck around.
00:39:40.000 Really?
00:39:40.000 I saw that you went back recently and you were taking photos of you in the sand mine where you worked as a boy.
00:39:49.000 Did I see that on Instagram?
00:39:50.000 Yeah.
00:39:51.000 What was that like?
00:39:53.000 I always do that.
00:39:55.000 Yeah?
00:39:55.000 Yeah.
00:39:56.000 I mean, when I'm home, I always like to do that.
00:40:01.000 It's kind of like...
00:40:02.000 It really hurts me to remember everything, like where I came from, how he was.
00:40:12.000 Every time that I go back home, I will go back to all those places that I used to work there.
00:40:20.000 I hated this thing growing up.
00:40:22.000 Oh, you can imagine.
00:40:24.000 I hated this and mine, everything.
00:40:26.000 I hated my life.
00:40:29.000 But today, it seems like a fuel for my life today.
00:40:33.000 I have to fill up from that life.
00:40:36.000 Go back there, see this.
00:40:38.000 Because most people there are still people that we grew up together.
00:40:42.000 And he allowed me to see how far I came from.
00:40:47.000 You know?
00:40:49.000 I think the moment that I enjoy the most is like those moments, you know, going back, go to the house that I grew up into, even though we fix it today, it's not the same, but the environment,
00:41:06.000 like sleeping, have all this nostalgic, At 5 o'clock, all these animal sounds from outside, the bed, birds, all those sounds which are very familiar, bring you back from 20 to 25 years ago.
00:41:24.000 The smells, everything reminds you something.
00:41:29.000 And this is always my best moment.
00:41:34.000 I can go there and live in the five-star hotel, do some crazy stuff, but I don't enjoy that as much.
00:41:44.000 I don't know how to explain it, but I always do it.
00:41:49.000 I always go back to the sand mine.
00:41:51.000 This is like a tradition.
00:41:53.000 Not just for them, because he helps me.
00:41:56.000 I like it.
00:41:58.000 I feel like, okay, you know, it's kind of like taking my revenge of life.
00:42:04.000 Like, okay, I used to be here thinking this, thinking that, dreaming of this, dreaming of that.
00:42:10.000 Today I have this.
00:42:11.000 Look, that's my car.
00:42:12.000 Look, that's my truck.
00:42:16.000 Yeah.
00:42:17.000 Look, that's my house.
00:42:18.000 Look, this is my life.
00:42:20.000 I'm going to fly back to America even though I'm here, you know?
00:42:24.000 Yeah.
00:42:24.000 So, It's like living a dream.
00:42:28.000 Yeah.
00:42:28.000 Because back then, that was just a dream.
00:42:30.000 A crazy dream.
00:42:31.000 Unbelievable.
00:42:32.000 So I'm living into it right now.
00:42:35.000 Like, yes, doing this 20 years ago, I was dreaming like, man, how it is to be in the airplane, going somewhere.
00:42:42.000 Imagine yourself being in the airplane, going to America or to France or something.
00:42:48.000 Wow.
00:42:49.000 And I go back.
00:42:50.000 I do the same shit.
00:42:51.000 I'm like, guess what?
00:42:52.000 I'm going back to America in one week.
00:42:55.000 Yeah.
00:42:56.000 Right.
00:42:57.000 You're living the dream.
00:42:58.000 Yeah.
00:42:59.000 Yeah.
00:42:59.000 And so it just reminds you, just puts you back in that place.
00:43:03.000 Yeah.
00:43:04.000 And what is crazy is most of the time it's going to be with the same guy that I grew up with.
00:43:11.000 Wow.
00:43:11.000 They're in the same place doing the same thing.
00:43:14.000 What is it like for them?
00:43:16.000 Do they ask you questions?
00:43:19.000 You know, and that's why I feel very lucky, just to have a different mindset, just to even have a dream, because they don't even have a dream.
00:43:30.000 Most of those people, if you ask them, OK, what is your dream?
00:43:37.000 Where would you like to be in one year, five years from now?
00:43:42.000 They don't know.
00:43:43.000 He gave up a long time ago.
00:43:45.000 He doesn't give a shit about it.
00:43:47.000 As long as he has something to eat before he goes to bed, it's okay.
00:43:53.000 That's it.
00:43:54.000 And now I'm like, how can somebody live like this?
00:43:58.000 But it's their life.
00:44:00.000 You can't do anything.
00:44:01.000 I'm like, Then you will find someone, some people, which is a little different.
00:44:09.000 They have a dream.
00:44:11.000 They are hoping to change their life.
00:44:14.000 Those people, over the years, you can see the change in their life, improvement, step by step.
00:44:20.000 This year, they're going to say, I want to do this.
00:44:24.000 I wish I could do this.
00:44:25.000 Next year, guess what?
00:44:27.000 Even though they didn't do that, they didn't get that done, they get closer, and next year, and next year, and next year, they move up.
00:44:35.000 But those who doesn't have a dream, you know, they're just there like that.
00:44:40.000 Do you find some of the people there that do have a dream look at you and they get inspired?
00:44:47.000 I think that's even why some of the reasons will keep me going back and even in the foundation.
00:44:59.000 Like once I had like a really good friend of mine.
00:45:03.000 This guy is in the village and he's doing good.
00:45:07.000 He's doing his businesses, doing good for a village guy.
00:45:11.000 Like sometime I will come there.
00:45:13.000 He will even give me like a whiskey, find a good whiskey for me.
00:45:17.000 And he said, man, You know, like, you just going in America and come back here means a lot to us.
00:45:26.000 Like, we grew up together.
00:45:27.000 That means it's possible for us to drive us through our dream.
00:45:34.000 Like, motivate us.
00:45:35.000 Like, yes, if Francis did it, I mean...
00:45:39.000 I might not do the same thing, but I can get to what I want to, you know?
00:45:44.000 And I'm like, thank you.
00:45:47.000 I really appreciate his word.
00:45:49.000 And he was like very humble, explaining me things.
00:45:53.000 And yeah.
00:45:55.000 And that's why I also like doing my foundation.
00:45:59.000 I like to tell these kids, like, listen, I'm not a fairy tale.
00:46:05.000 I'm not a story that you watch on TV or that you read in the book.
00:46:12.000 I'm a fact.
00:46:13.000 I grew up here.
00:46:14.000 Most of you knew me before I even lived here, which means it's possible.
00:46:23.000 You know, as long as you believe in something, in a dream, as long as you have a dream and believe in yourself, I think success is just a matter of time.
00:46:34.000 What is your foundation?
00:46:36.000 Francis Ngannou Foundation.
00:46:38.000 And what do you do?
00:46:40.000 Honestly, the goal is to do everything because there is just too much, a lot to be done back then.
00:46:48.000 There is nothing out there.
00:46:49.000 But as for now, I have a gym for kids because when I was back there with my dream as a kid, I always expected to have someone come there and have a gym.
00:47:03.000 I was like, this would be cool.
00:47:05.000 You know, so I can train, you know.
00:47:08.000 And the first thing that I did when I went in France, and then I see how there are opportunities there.
00:47:16.000 I started to collect clothes, everything that I can have.
00:47:20.000 I started to collect them and ship it home.
00:47:23.000 And over the years, I built a gym under the foundation so kids can go there and train.
00:47:30.000 Not because I want them to become a professional athlete, but just because I want them to feel like they matter, you know, like somebody care about them.
00:47:41.000 Because most of the time, that's why kids give up on their dream.
00:47:48.000 They feel like, okay, it's not mean for us.
00:47:51.000 We can't get there.
00:47:52.000 They just let him go.
00:47:55.000 Which is wrong, because I think everybody can make it.
00:48:01.000 It's still difficult, more difficult to somebody than some, but it's still possible for everyone.
00:48:11.000 And from my experience, I mean, it might not be always true, but when you believe, when you have a dream and you believe into, there's no way that you're not going to make it.
00:48:25.000 You know, he might take time, he might come on his own time, but he will always come.
00:48:32.000 So you have this dream, you leave Cameroon, you end up in France, you end up in Paris?
00:48:39.000 Is that where you went?
00:48:40.000 And what was that like?
00:48:42.000 And how did you get involved in martial arts from there?
00:48:51.000 So my journey from Cameroon to Paris was 14 months.
00:48:57.000 14 months to get there?
00:48:59.000 Yeah.
00:49:01.000 Remember, I couldn't go to the airport and just take a plane to go to France.
00:49:07.000 I have to use all the back doors.
00:49:14.000 It was from Cameroon to Nigeria.
00:49:19.000 In Cameroon, I've always been in this triangle city, which is like my village here.
00:49:26.000 The capital, the political capital here named Yaonde, and the economic capital named Douala here is the triangle that I've always been into.
00:49:36.000 I never get out of that triangle.
00:49:38.000 So I'm always concerned about How it looks like to get out there.
00:49:45.000 But guess what?
00:49:47.000 I don't want to get only out there, only out there and still stay in Cameroon.
00:49:52.000 I want to go somewhere else.
00:49:54.000 Where?
00:49:55.000 I don't even know.
00:49:57.000 So you didn't even know you were going to go to Paris.
00:49:59.000 You just knew you wanted to leave Cameroon.
00:50:00.000 Yeah.
00:50:01.000 I want to go somewhere that I'll have more opportunity.
00:50:05.000 So what was the first day?
00:50:06.000 How did you escape?
00:50:07.000 What did you do?
00:50:09.000 Where I live, Cameroon.
00:50:12.000 And then from there...
00:50:14.000 How'd you live?
00:50:17.000 Call and train and get to Nigeria.
00:50:22.000 Did you save up some money before you went?
00:50:24.000 Oh, yeah.
00:50:25.000 I saved some money and I gave some of my savings to my little sister to keep it because where we were going, man, we didn't...
00:50:38.000 I didn't know exactly how it looks like, but from what I've heard...
00:50:45.000 He was a hell.
00:50:46.000 You're going to cross a mafia and all those people across the road.
00:50:51.000 You're going to get robbed, every kind of shit.
00:50:56.000 So you better not have all your money on you.
00:51:00.000 If you don't get killed.
00:51:02.000 If you don't kill yourself by taking some risk.
00:51:08.000 I leave the money to my sister.
00:51:10.000 I'm like, just keep it in your eyes.
00:51:13.000 So every time that I call you, be ready to send it where I ask you.
00:51:24.000 And she was like, where are you going exactly?
00:51:26.000 I'm like, I'm going to the north.
00:51:28.000 To the north.
00:51:30.000 Yeah.
00:51:30.000 Where exactly?
00:51:31.000 Just the north.
00:51:32.000 That's it.
00:51:33.000 You ask me where I'm going and I tell you.
00:51:36.000 Because I couldn't tell nobody.
00:51:38.000 I remember I went to the village three weeks earlier just to see everything because I'm like, okay.
00:51:48.000 This might be the last time, man.
00:51:51.000 I might never come back.
00:51:52.000 I might just die out there.
00:51:54.000 At least I see my family, I see my village and everything for the last time.
00:51:59.000 And I went back in the village and I went to my mom and sometimes I was staring at her like this, was thinking like, maybe this is the last time, man.
00:52:13.000 Man, this shit is becoming serious.
00:52:21.000 And sometimes she crossed my eyes and I'm like, why are you looking at me like this?
00:52:26.000 I'm like, no, nothing.
00:52:29.000 A lot of things was going on in my mind.
00:52:33.000 And I couldn't tell nobody that I'm leaving.
00:52:35.000 Because when you tell somebody like, I'm leaving, the first question that pops up is like, why are you going?
00:52:42.000 I don't know.
00:52:44.000 And then I'm like, okay, that boxing really started to mess up his head.
00:52:50.000 So I couldn't tell them.
00:52:54.000 I stayed in the village for like two or three weeks.
00:52:58.000 I see everything.
00:52:59.000 And the last time that I was leaving the village, I think that was a very hard moment for me because I knew that from there I'm going.
00:53:12.000 I was scared.
00:53:13.000 I was afraid.
00:53:14.000 But it feels like I was forced to do it.
00:53:18.000 I had to do it.
00:53:19.000 I couldn't be there and see my life turn up the way that he was and not taking action.
00:53:30.000 A few years earlier, my dad passed away.
00:53:35.000 He got sick.
00:53:37.000 He stayed in the home.
00:53:37.000 We couldn't even bring him to the hospital.
00:53:40.000 And we just look at him, get sick, suffer until he passed away.
00:53:45.000 And I was like, man, if this shit happened again in my family, like, guess if my mom, after all what she, she have been doing, all the sacrifice as a single mom, if she gets sick today, We should be the ones taking care of her.
00:54:06.000 But I can't do anything.
00:54:08.000 I'm just going to sit here and see my life.
00:54:12.000 I would like to have kids in my life.
00:54:16.000 How can I take care of those kids?
00:54:19.000 They're going to go back in the same process, in the same life like me?
00:54:24.000 No, I have to take action.
00:54:26.000 So it was clear in my mind that I have to leave.
00:54:31.000 It wasn't even a choice anymore.
00:54:33.000 It was like an obligation in order to have a better life and bring a potential solution in my upcoming problems.
00:54:44.000 And that's how I left.
00:54:47.000 And when I left my country, I went from Nigeria.
00:54:56.000 And then after Nigeria, we got to Niger.
00:54:59.000 So what did you do when you go to Nigeria?
00:55:01.000 How long did you stay there for?
00:55:02.000 No, I didn't stay too much.
00:55:03.000 The whole thing was 14 months, right?
00:55:05.000 Yeah.
00:55:05.000 But the Nigeria trip was really fast.
00:55:08.000 You know, Nigeria is the next country to Cameroon.
00:55:10.000 So we don't even need like a visa to go in Cameroon.
00:55:13.000 So in Nigeria, we are free.
00:55:15.000 We are still free.
00:55:16.000 So everything is still cool.
00:55:17.000 You can still travel normally.
00:55:19.000 And so it took me like two days in Nigeria, across the whole Nigeria in two days, from Yola to Kano.
00:55:29.000 And then from Kano, we found a trip to get in Niger, which is the next country, but more like a deserted country.
00:55:43.000 And we went in the south of it, and there we started to be illegal.
00:55:50.000 Because from our country, from us to get there, we needed a visa.
00:55:57.000 But from there, we didn't have a visa.
00:55:59.000 So we started to have to deal with the police, with the border protection, all these things, all day long.
00:56:06.000 You get caught.
00:56:08.000 They ask you for money.
00:56:12.000 You know, like a bribe.
00:56:14.000 Sometimes you don't want to give them all your money.
00:56:17.000 You need that to survive.
00:56:19.000 And sometimes they just rape you.
00:56:22.000 They want everything.
00:56:23.000 Take your clothes off.
00:56:24.000 Find money everywhere.
00:56:26.000 Everything of value that they see, they will take it.
00:56:31.000 So it was a game.
00:56:34.000 Who knows exactly how to hide something?
00:56:37.000 You're going to have some money, some saving on you that nobody can find it.
00:56:41.000 And they know how to find it because they've been doing this over years.
00:56:45.000 All the time, you have to come up with a new way of saving your money.
00:56:54.000 Sometimes we wrap money in the paper and solo it.
00:56:59.000 In order to get to somewhere.
00:57:01.000 Because you know that you can't cross this zone without gate.
00:57:07.000 How do they say it?
00:57:08.000 Like when they check you.
00:57:11.000 Frisk?
00:57:12.000 Frisk, without getting frisked.
00:57:15.000 So you have to save your money, some money, because you have to survive, you have to keep going, you have to eat, you have to do all this.
00:57:22.000 But when they take your money, they don't care about all those.
00:57:26.000 They just want to take whatever they can take, sometimes throw you in the dessert, and you have to figure out your own way back.
00:57:37.000 And it's hot, no water.
00:57:43.000 That was the hell.
00:57:44.000 So you had to swallow your money?
00:57:46.000 Yeah, you swallow your money.
00:57:47.000 And then find it later?
00:57:49.000 Find it later.
00:57:52.000 You have to.
00:57:53.000 Right, I get it.
00:57:54.000 At this point, it's a matter of surviving.
00:57:57.000 Everything that you can do to survive.
00:57:59.000 So you have to wrap it in plastic?
00:58:00.000 Yeah, you wrap it in plastic to protect it.
00:58:04.000 Not to get wet.
00:58:05.000 Not to get destroyed.
00:58:07.000 Man.
00:58:09.000 And we have to cross from the north of Nigeria to Nigeria.
00:58:17.000 There is a desert called Sahara.
00:58:22.000 The Sahara Desert, yeah.
00:58:25.000 And it's like one of the biggest over there.
00:58:28.000 And we have those people.
00:58:34.000 They're going to help us pass.
00:58:36.000 They take our money, they keep us in some room for a few days, and some night they just bring a small truck and put your baggage in it.
00:58:50.000 You don't have to carry a lot of baggage, because it's like 50. You know Toyota Tacoma?
00:58:58.000 Yes, it's going to be like 25 of you guys, In the back.
00:59:05.000 25 people in a Toyota Tacoma?
00:59:08.000 Yeah.
00:59:08.000 Plus your luggage.
00:59:10.000 Wow.
00:59:10.000 You are not allowed for a lot of luggage.
00:59:12.000 Even water, you're not allowed for a certain quantity of water because it takes space.
00:59:20.000 And you are going to the desert.
00:59:21.000 Yeah.
00:59:22.000 And you are not allowed with a certain amount of water.
00:59:25.000 How long is the trip?
00:59:27.000 Normally it's like 24 hours with a car because it's like very flat so they don't have speed limit.
00:59:37.000 They can go like 150 miles per hour straight up and they have to hide from like rudders because sometimes they are like helicopter Flying up there looking, checking if there's something going on, because they know that there's a lot of traffic there.
00:59:59.000 Not only immigrants, but only guns and drugs and everything.
01:00:05.000 So they're always flying there.
01:00:09.000 So they use talky walky to communicate.
01:00:13.000 It's like an organization.
01:00:16.000 They are well organized.
01:00:20.000 But you have to be lucky so the car don't break up in the middle of the trip.
01:00:25.000 Because if the car break up in the middle of the trip, most of the time it's over.
01:00:31.000 What happens then?
01:00:32.000 Well, guess what?
01:00:34.000 Yeah.
01:00:34.000 You guys might just die.
01:00:36.000 If you're stuck in the middle of the desert with no water.
01:00:39.000 Yeah, what else would you do?
01:00:40.000 Yeah, what else would you do?
01:00:42.000 Yeah.
01:00:44.000 So you have to take a big risk?
01:00:46.000 Yeah.
01:00:47.000 It's like 100. At the daytime, it's like 150 degrees.
01:00:52.000 Nighttime, it drops to like maybe 20 degrees.
01:00:56.000 It's crazy.
01:00:57.000 It gets cold.
01:00:58.000 At daytime, it gets hot.
01:01:01.000 Wow.
01:01:02.000 Yeah, so you have to do that one day trip hoping that crossing your finger that everything goes well.
01:01:09.000 If the truck doesn't break down.
01:01:10.000 Yeah, the truck doesn't break down.
01:01:13.000 And we were in this car like you couldn't even sit comfortable.
01:01:17.000 I was just sitting on the edge and you have to grab the truck so hard so you get crammed.
01:01:25.000 But when you get crammed, you can't let him go because if you let him go, you fall.
01:01:32.000 And that's it.
01:01:33.000 They won't stop.
01:01:34.000 Oh, man.
01:01:35.000 You know?
01:01:36.000 So you have to, like, keep holding.
01:01:39.000 So you're hanging on.
01:01:40.000 You're hanging on.
01:01:41.000 And you get cramps.
01:01:41.000 Yeah.
01:01:41.000 But you can't let go.
01:01:42.000 Oh, you can't let go.
01:01:43.000 It's your life.
01:01:44.000 And it's a whole day.
01:01:45.000 Yeah.
01:01:46.000 Let him go is like letting your life go.
01:01:48.000 You know, it's over if I let him go.
01:01:50.000 There is no second chance.
01:01:51.000 Whew.
01:01:52.000 And after a few hours, they might stop, so you guys can stretch up a little bit.
01:02:01.000 But most of the time, when they stop, you can't even move anymore.
01:02:05.000 You just shake your body and fall on the ground.
01:02:09.000 After a few minutes, before blood starts to flow in your hands and everything, and you're able to move it.
01:02:19.000 Jesus!
01:02:21.000 At some point, you guys don't get water.
01:02:23.000 I remember there was a girl with a baby in that row, and we were so tired.
01:02:32.000 And she was even in the mirror, not even the edge.
01:02:35.000 She was in the mirror.
01:02:36.000 But at some point, she couldn't do it anymore.
01:02:39.000 She just wanted to throw the baby away.
01:02:41.000 This is how hard it was.
01:02:43.000 She couldn't do it, and you can't blame her.
01:02:48.000 And the guy just keep holding the baby.
01:02:51.000 They take the baby from hell, like holding and helping pass to each other, you know.
01:03:00.000 Yeah, that's how.
01:03:01.000 At some point, we don't get...
01:03:03.000 We have like a storm of sand.
01:03:07.000 Oh, a storm.
01:03:08.000 A storm of sand.
01:03:10.000 So you have to wrap your face and everything because the sand is just like...
01:03:17.000 You go through all this stuff, and even before the middle of the trip, So
01:03:51.000 you're going through a full day, mostly without water?
01:03:56.000 No, not a full day because at first you have water.
01:04:00.000 So half a day.
01:04:01.000 Almost like half a day without water.
01:04:04.000 With no water.
01:04:04.000 Yes.
01:04:05.000 But luckily, like when your water finishes, like maybe at two or three, then by six, the sun sets.
01:04:18.000 And there's no sun.
01:04:19.000 The temperature starts to go down.
01:04:21.000 So it's kind of like, you know...
01:04:23.000 So you get dehydrated at the point that you're not sweating anymore.
01:04:29.000 It's like oil on your face.
01:04:32.000 When you do it like this, it's like oil coming out of your skin.
01:04:38.000 And that's how we cross the desert.
01:04:41.000 So you get through the Sahara Desert.
01:04:44.000 When we get to this country, the first country in the south of Algeria, we found a water where.
01:04:56.000 And this waterway was there for, I don't know how long.
01:04:59.000 I think it was something that was being used by the farmer.
01:05:05.000 And he was so dirty, with dead animals in it, birds, everything.
01:05:12.000 Man!
01:05:15.000 I'm going to drain this water and it might kill me.
01:05:20.000 But guess what?
01:05:21.000 I will die after if I don't drink this water.
01:05:24.000 I'm not lasting long.
01:05:26.000 So you drink it.
01:05:28.000 You kind of take the water, put it in the bottle, lift your shirt and use your shirt as a filter to drain the water.
01:05:37.000 Try not to feel this, to smell it, not to do anything.
01:05:41.000 You have to.
01:05:43.000 And that's where you kind of start to understand what you put yourself into.
01:05:49.000 It's just the beginning.
01:05:52.000 You have to go through all this process now in Algeria of changing your identity, pretending to buy a new passport like you are from Mali.
01:06:04.000 Because Mali, what is the good thing with that?
01:06:07.000 You learn a lot about immigration, about relationship between countries.
01:06:11.000 In every country, you know who is their good...
01:06:17.000 Allies.
01:06:19.000 Allies.
01:06:20.000 Who do they have a good relationship with?
01:06:23.000 So in Algeria, they have a very good relationship with Mali because Mali helps them when it was a war time.
01:06:35.000 So now you have to pretend you're from Mali.
01:06:38.000 Yes, so all Malian citizens in Algeria, they don't even need a visa.
01:06:45.000 They are free, as long as they have an ID. So, we all are black, we look the same.
01:06:54.000 We all are from Mali.
01:06:55.000 You have to prove it.
01:06:57.000 Just get some people, they are selling passports, and look at this.
01:07:03.000 Oh, yeah.
01:07:05.000 From the time you left Cameroon to the time you get to Algeria, how many days is this?
01:07:11.000 It's still not long.
01:07:12.000 Like, maybe just two weeks.
01:07:14.000 Two weeks?
01:07:15.000 Yeah.
01:07:15.000 No, not too much.
01:07:17.000 And how are you getting food?
01:07:19.000 And how are you getting by?
01:07:20.000 You still get money.
01:07:22.000 Like, you still get money.
01:07:24.000 You kept some money.
01:07:25.000 Yes.
01:07:25.000 You buy stuff.
01:07:27.000 It's like...
01:07:30.000 You know, it's like an organization.
01:07:34.000 There's people around who have set up a business just for those type of things.
01:07:39.000 Just to get you from point A to point B? Yeah.
01:07:41.000 Someone who has set up a business just to change devices.
01:07:45.000 You know, currency.
01:07:48.000 Because from Cameroon to Nigeria is not the same currency.
01:07:52.000 Nigeria and Nigeria is not the same currency.
01:07:55.000 From Nigeria to Nigeria, it's not the same currency.
01:08:00.000 Everywhere, you have to change the currency.
01:08:03.000 And there are already people around.
01:08:06.000 You don't know until you get there.
01:08:10.000 And it's good for you, because it saves you out of a lot of problems.
01:08:15.000 They are making money on you, but at least you have a solution of your problem in the hands.
01:08:24.000 In Algeria, we buy a passport because we have to go from the south to the north, which is closer to Morocco before we get to Morocco.
01:08:39.000 And all the time you have to get controlled by the police in Algeria.
01:08:45.000 They know that, because it's been over years, and then I'm like, why all black people here are Malian?
01:08:55.000 Yeah.
01:08:56.000 But they have a very difficulty to truly identify some person.
01:09:03.000 So they play it psychologically.
01:09:05.000 They can take your idea, look at you, your reaction.
01:09:08.000 They might just decide if it's you or not by your reaction.
01:09:13.000 If you're going to get a check based on your reaction.
01:09:19.000 So they kind of play psychologically out there.
01:09:24.000 And we went, we passed because I was very...
01:09:30.000 very...
01:09:34.000 Maybe.
01:09:35.000 Good at it.
01:09:37.000 When I come, when the cops take my passport, I don't look away.
01:09:43.000 I pretend I'm sleeping.
01:09:45.000 When he comes to me, I'm like, I just take my hands off before he asks me.
01:09:52.000 I give him my ID. I look him straight to his eye.
01:09:56.000 That was pretty easy because when you look somebody in the eyes, your eyes cause his eyes.
01:10:04.000 So he doesn't have time to look at your face if it's really you.
01:10:08.000 You can't get out of your eyes to look at your mouth or your nose or your ears.
01:10:14.000 So I kind of look at him, staring at him like this.
01:10:18.000 So I'm like, yeah, it might be him because he's so confident.
01:10:23.000 But I was afraid as shit.
01:10:25.000 I can't imagine.
01:10:30.000 Just so far, this journey is crazy.
01:10:33.000 Are you second-guessing yourself at all during this point?
01:10:37.000 Like, what have I got myself into?
01:10:40.000 Yeah.
01:10:41.000 Because you don't know until you get there.
01:10:44.000 And the thing is, you can't go back.
01:10:47.000 You can't go back.
01:10:48.000 And you don't even know exactly where you're going.
01:10:50.000 You don't even know exactly.
01:10:52.000 And at every step, you think the next step is going to be easier.
01:10:57.000 Guess what?
01:10:58.000 You always get harder and harder and harder.
01:11:01.000 That's how it is.
01:11:03.000 So you get tight and tight and tight and tight.
01:11:07.000 And at some point, You find yourself in the middle of something that you never imagined, but you can't go back anymore.
01:11:16.000 And still, this is only, you're talking about a 14-month journey, and we're only a few weeks in.
01:11:24.000 Yeah.
01:11:26.000 Yes.
01:11:27.000 So it just keeps going.
01:11:29.000 That was just like a warm-up.
01:11:31.000 Oh, hell yeah.
01:11:33.000 Oh my God.
01:11:34.000 Because in Morocco, that was a real one.
01:11:38.000 That was a hell.
01:11:40.000 That was bad.
01:11:42.000 Unbelievable life.
01:11:44.000 Yeah.
01:11:45.000 Like, even now, sometime when I think about it, I was there.
01:11:50.000 It's not like a story that somebody tell me.
01:11:52.000 I was there myself.
01:11:54.000 I've been through all these things by myself.
01:11:58.000 Sometimes I still can't believe it.
01:12:01.000 Can you imagine that?
01:12:02.000 Wow.
01:12:03.000 You can't even expect somebody to understand what you're talking about.
01:12:07.000 What was Morocco like?
01:12:11.000 Morocco is a nightmare for immigration.
01:12:18.000 It's like a hell of country from immigration because it's the country closer to Europe.
01:12:28.000 You know, at some point, the ocean is just like maybe five miles.
01:12:33.000 The land in Morocco is just five miles from Europe, from Tarifa, which is in Spain.
01:12:43.000 And there is a two small territory of Spain in Morocco, in the Morocco side, which is Ceuta and Melia.
01:12:57.000 Those two are just protected by the gate, by the fence, with the...
01:13:07.000 Barboire?
01:13:08.000 Barbara on it.
01:13:10.000 Oh, those Barbara, they are sharp.
01:13:13.000 Yeah.
01:13:13.000 Oh, I can't tell you.
01:13:15.000 They are fucking sharp.
01:13:17.000 You almost take my stomach out.
01:13:19.000 Like, caught me here, everywhere.
01:13:21.000 The first time I fell on it, I'm like stuck there.
01:13:25.000 But if I stay there on the barbell to expect a rescue, somebody, a rescue, then the military will come and guess what?
01:13:38.000 Ah, they don't joke.
01:13:39.000 Right.
01:13:40.000 They will beat you up basically when you're a big guy like this because they know when you're big, for them you are the oldest one.
01:13:50.000 You're going to Senegal and bring all those bambinos to come to go to Europe because you think we don't want to go to Europe.
01:13:58.000 They beat the shit out of you.
01:14:02.000 Sometimes with a bar of iron, you know, they kill people just by beating them.
01:14:10.000 You know, there are just some people, they are not educated, they don't know differences, they don't even understand people's struggles, they don't understand nothing.
01:14:20.000 They just took them in the town and trained them and gave them a bath to beat people.
01:14:30.000 So the people that use for police, they just take anybody that wants that job?
01:14:35.000 No, not for the police.
01:14:36.000 There's a different call.
01:14:38.000 There's a special call there just for immigration.
01:14:41.000 Named Ali.
01:14:43.000 Because the European Union financed that call to protect their border.
01:14:51.000 Because they know that it's like a strategic point from Africa to go to Europe.
01:14:56.000 So they were like, okay...
01:15:00.000 Don't let people come there.
01:15:01.000 Morocco will be like, that's not our problem.
01:15:05.000 We don't have money to do all the stuff.
01:15:08.000 So they give them money for that.
01:15:10.000 So it's a good business for Morocco to protect.
01:15:14.000 It's like a lot of money in their economy.
01:15:18.000 They have a new call, a special call for that, so give a lot of jobs.
01:15:25.000 But man, they don't joke on you.
01:15:28.000 In this side, somewhere, you have like three fans with a barber, and the other side, you have the Guadja civil.
01:15:38.000 What is that?
01:15:39.000 Guardia Civil.
01:15:40.000 It's a core in Spain.
01:15:44.000 Like a private core, but there has a lot of power in the security system.
01:15:51.000 And those people, they are not like the Moroccan ones.
01:15:59.000 They can talk to each other by defense, but one side is Morocco, one side is Spain.
01:16:09.000 But they have a huge high-tech technology equipment for civilians.
01:16:19.000 Like, they have this camera.
01:16:23.000 Like, this week I was watching a movie about some movie showing some part of that.
01:16:29.000 And you should watch this.
01:16:31.000 The movie is named Adu.
01:16:33.000 It's a small kid from somewhere in Africa.
01:16:37.000 In Cameroon, exactly.
01:16:39.000 What's the movie called?
01:16:40.000 Adu.
01:16:41.000 Spell that?
01:16:42.000 A-D-U. There it is.
01:16:44.000 A-D-U. Yes.
01:16:46.000 A.D.U. That movie is interesting.
01:16:49.000 You can see some part of that movie.
01:16:54.000 You can see the Gwaja civil, how they operate.
01:16:59.000 Even them, they beat you up.
01:17:03.000 Yes.
01:17:04.000 How long were you in Morocco for?
01:17:06.000 One year.
01:17:07.000 One year?
01:17:08.000 Yeah.
01:17:09.000 Holy shit.
01:17:10.000 Because every time that you attempt, and it's not easy, you have to prepare to go attempt.
01:17:16.000 And every time that you attempt, if you fail, If you get lucky, you don't get beat up or all the stuff, they're going to bring you back in the South and throw you in the desert to let you go.
01:17:34.000 So it's their own way to say, go back to your country.
01:17:38.000 They leave you in the border, out of their country, which is in the desert, close to Algeria.
01:17:46.000 Algerians, they don't want you there.
01:17:48.000 Moroccan, they don't want you there.
01:17:50.000 So you have to work like the whole night to get somewhere that you can rest.
01:18:00.000 And to go back from where you were, it takes a lot of time.
01:18:06.000 You know, it's a struggle because we're going to jump into like a...
01:18:12.000 Merchandise train, and all those things, all this process is very long.
01:18:23.000 Sometimes you have to go in the water to attempt to, like, deviate from Morocco to get to this island.
01:18:31.000 But it became very, very complicated because they have radar all the time running.
01:18:39.000 And as soon as you even have a chance to touch the water, you're going to get caught right away because they have all this high tech, this infrared motion detector.
01:18:49.000 Infrared, yeah, motion detector.
01:18:51.000 Infrared.
01:18:52.000 All those staff, they have all those staff.
01:18:54.000 So even when we go to the fence, because there is somebody who is always going to go check, to look where there is a weakness on the fence.
01:19:10.000 It's about 11 miles of fence, who protect an island, a small place like this.
01:19:19.000 So here is water, here is water.
01:19:22.000 They build like 11 miles of fence like this to protect like . - So you're just trying to figure out how to get through the fence?
01:19:30.000 Where?
01:19:31.000 First, because where everything is so good, you can't even imagine.
01:19:39.000 It's three fence with babble over every fence.
01:19:44.000 Babble on the floor on this side, the cop here, the Moroccan military on this side.
01:19:54.000 First, they dig a long hole And then sometimes they put barbed wire into it too.
01:20:02.000 So just barbed wire everywhere?
01:20:05.000 Barbed wire, yes.
01:20:07.000 Everywhere?
01:20:07.000 Yeah.
01:20:09.000 Plus, you have like, I don't know, maybe the first one is like three times my high.
01:20:17.000 Okay.
01:20:18.000 Yeah.
01:20:18.000 So...
01:20:19.000 So like 20...
01:20:20.000 20 feet of fence.
01:20:21.000 20 feet.
01:20:22.000 And you're going to climb that and then barbed wire all over it.
01:20:24.000 Yes.
01:20:25.000 And the barbed wire is all around.
01:20:27.000 How are you climbing it?
01:20:28.000 No, you can't climb that.
01:20:30.000 So you have to look.
01:20:31.000 You guys, someone has to go and look around and see where there's a weakness somewhere to look and from far distant.
01:20:44.000 You know?
01:20:45.000 He can go...
01:20:46.000 We call them...
01:20:50.000 I don't know the name of the English.
01:20:51.000 Scout?
01:20:51.000 Yeah.
01:20:52.000 So he can go there and stay some time for two days in one place, just to observe, check what time the military swift What time, how do they react?
01:21:15.000 This day, how do they...
01:21:17.000 everything.
01:21:18.000 What time, in what interval, the Guadja civil in the Spain side pass with their car, patrol.
01:21:28.000 You know?
01:21:30.000 See, this is where there is not too much turmoil.
01:21:38.000 And when he finds some place, he'll come back.
01:21:41.000 I'm like, okay, I see this place.
01:21:44.000 I think it's good.
01:21:45.000 Maybe somebody is going to take somebody or one, two more people there to go check.
01:21:53.000 They're going to go sleep again, check, read everything, their movement.
01:21:59.000 Like, okay, the swift.
01:22:00.000 Then we have a game plan from there.
01:22:03.000 Like, okay.
01:22:04.000 They have a swift at this moment.
01:22:07.000 From this box to that box is like maybe 50 yards or 100 yards.
01:22:14.000 But sometimes they are like empty box between.
01:22:18.000 There is not always a military in every box.
01:22:23.000 They kind of like learn that, like, okay, this box and this box.
01:22:27.000 It's empty.
01:22:29.000 The switch is at this time.
01:22:31.000 The patrol car passed at this time, at this interval.
01:22:37.000 So we have all this and like, okay, between the patrol car, after the patrol car left, Liv, we're going to attack because it's like five.
01:22:51.000 Maybe we're going to attack in five or ten minutes because he will take them maybe another ten minutes to come and that will be enough time.
01:23:02.000 So that's your opening?
01:23:03.000 That's the opening.
01:23:04.000 It's like short opening.
01:23:06.000 Five minute opening in one spot.
01:23:10.000 And you have to do it very well because if you fail, that will tell them that you guys know this spot already.
01:23:19.000 They're going to come and fix it.
01:23:21.000 So is it a hole in the fence?
01:23:25.000 How are you getting through?
01:23:26.000 Sometimes it's not a hole in the fence.
01:23:28.000 Sometimes the barbed wire is just broken and all these things.
01:23:34.000 And in some places, instead of three, it's still two or one.
01:23:40.000 I don't know why, but it's not always straight exactly.
01:23:47.000 And you have to find that opening.
01:23:50.000 And when you find that opening, you get prepared.
01:23:52.000 Then you say, OK, we are doing this this day.
01:23:56.000 Then sometimes you go there, You guys at night time, you will go there, the convoi.
01:24:04.000 It might be 100, 200, hundreds of you guys.
01:24:10.000 And imagine like hundreds of people walking in some town around with cops living there and they still have to be like silence, like hiding.
01:24:24.000 Most of the time, the couple will see you and when they see this mass of people, they know that they are preparing something.
01:24:31.000 They will just send an alert.
01:24:33.000 But they don't know exactly what time or when.
01:24:37.000 So hundreds of people, they can lay back in one spot hiding for like three days.
01:24:45.000 Yeah, three days.
01:24:49.000 When the alert goes on, most of the time, the Guardia Civil in the Spain side, they start to send the infrared, the motion detector all the time.
01:25:03.000 Most of the time, they even send the helicopter to come flying on top.
01:25:08.000 Even if the infrared notice something there, sometimes it's kind of tricky.
01:25:17.000 It's technology, but it's not always accurate.
01:25:20.000 We can just stay there.
01:25:22.000 Silence.
01:25:23.000 It's crazy how hundreds of people can be silenced at once, since they all know that their future depends on that exact moment.
01:25:36.000 Wow.
01:25:37.000 How many times did you attempt to get through?
01:25:41.000 On the fence, many times, I touched the fence like I went to the fence like I touched the fence twice and over time we didn't even get to the fence.
01:25:52.000 They saw us even before because the Gwaja Sevilla, their technology is very high.
01:26:00.000 So we don't even care about the Moroccan military.
01:26:04.000 We know that we can get these guys all day long.
01:26:08.000 But the Gwaja Civil, man, all the technology, the motorcycles, the car, even when you get there, it's another deal to run away from them.
01:26:20.000 They're going to chase you all over.
01:26:22.000 They have the motorcycles, this motocross, everything to chase you.
01:26:29.000 So on the two times when you just touched the fence and you got stopped, what happens then?
01:26:35.000 Oh, the first time I get caught, very caught.
01:26:39.000 Multiple wounds and I get back in the forest, bleeding.
01:26:45.000 I mean, I was just like trying to get back as fast as I can because that place wasn't good.
01:26:53.000 The guy told us, oh, he's like this, I saw.
01:26:55.000 But he wasn't as he said.
01:26:59.000 And we went and those who touched the fence, they really hurt.
01:27:07.000 We didn't expect it to be that way, but there was a lot of bad wires.
01:27:15.000 And I get it.
01:27:17.000 I was bleeding all over my hands, my feet, because I fell into it.
01:27:23.000 And that was my very first time I saw it and I didn't know exactly how to deal with it.
01:27:30.000 In the mirror of it.
01:27:32.000 Man!
01:27:33.000 So, with a pen, when you fell on it, it just comes and...
01:27:38.000 But the problem is to get out of there.
01:27:42.000 To get out of there, that's where it starts to cut.
01:27:45.000 I can't stay there.
01:27:47.000 If those guys caught me there, they're probably going to kill me.
01:27:51.000 Big as I am, they know that I'm the leader.
01:27:54.000 Because they always want to be done with the leader.
01:28:00.000 And I just pull my leg, my hands.
01:28:02.000 I'm like, fuck!
01:28:04.000 Ugh!
01:28:05.000 I get caught by this.
01:28:07.000 I get killed by those guys.
01:28:09.000 And probably they're still going to pull me here the same way.
01:28:13.000 So I get out of there.
01:28:15.000 Then I went to the fence.
01:28:17.000 Look at the fence like this.
01:28:20.000 Man, the barbed wire was just on there like this.
01:28:23.000 I tried.
01:28:25.000 The other group was moving around to find a safe place.
01:28:30.000 And the military was with them.
01:28:32.000 So I was technically alone here.
01:28:36.000 I look at this friend like this, touch the barbed wire.
01:28:40.000 He just came down like touching on my face.
01:28:43.000 I'm like, uh, you know what?
01:28:45.000 Stay there.
01:28:49.000 Wow.
01:28:50.000 So how'd you get back over?
01:28:52.000 No, I get back in the...
01:28:54.000 I found a place because they have the military there.
01:28:59.000 They have places behind their boxes to come.
01:29:03.000 They have a walkway here around the fence.
01:29:06.000 So I found a place then I walked back to there.
01:29:10.000 There wasn't a military there anymore.
01:29:12.000 But by that time, I was pissed off.
01:29:17.000 Even if there was a military there, there wouldn't be many of them.
01:29:22.000 Even when I first ran, there were a few of them.
01:29:27.000 I'm like, I'm going to go through these guys.
01:29:31.000 Okay, there's like three people in front of me.
01:29:36.000 There's my life behind them, my future.
01:29:39.000 Right.
01:29:39.000 Man, I'm taking my chance.
01:29:42.000 Every day, I'm taking my chance.
01:29:45.000 I'm not letting you, like, just three of you because you have it.
01:29:49.000 Nah.
01:29:49.000 Right.
01:29:49.000 I'm going with you.
01:29:54.000 But there wasn't a military there.
01:29:56.000 So this was the first time?
01:29:58.000 Yeah, that was the first time that I really touched and I introduced.
01:30:02.000 We met each other, the barbed wire and I. I'm like, hey man, respect.
01:30:10.000 I went back in the forest, bleeding all over.
01:30:13.000 I'm like, man, I know that if I go to the hospital, the police are going to cut me.
01:30:19.000 Because since they know there is an attack, they know there is a lot of wounded people.
01:30:28.000 So they're going to be looking at the hospital.
01:30:32.000 But, I mean, or I stay in the forest and die by losing my blood, or I go in the hospital.
01:30:40.000 Then I get caught.
01:30:42.000 Maybe they send me in the desert, but at least I was to be alive.
01:30:47.000 Right.
01:30:47.000 Then I decided at some point to go to the hospital.
01:30:51.000 Yeah.
01:30:52.000 I get some seizures.
01:30:54.000 The police came.
01:30:56.000 It wasn't even done.
01:30:57.000 They just took me like that.
01:30:59.000 Wow.
01:31:00.000 While you're getting stitched up?
01:31:02.000 Yeah, while I'm getting stitched up.
01:31:04.000 They don't care.
01:31:05.000 You felt like you had to get stitched up, though?
01:31:07.000 Oh, yeah.
01:31:08.000 Oh, yeah.
01:31:09.000 But they don't care about anything, you know?
01:31:12.000 I mean, I don't know if they even realize that you are a person of your hurt, you know?
01:31:22.000 They just took us there.
01:31:24.000 Yeah, that was the first time.
01:31:27.000 And what happens when they catch you?
01:31:29.000 Where they bring you to the police station.
01:31:33.000 You will stay there a few days.
01:31:36.000 Because this is in the north.
01:31:38.000 The south is very far.
01:31:40.000 So you're going to go.
01:31:42.000 To bring you to the south is a very long trip.
01:31:44.000 When they catch you guys, they'll put you in the police, keep you in the police station until you are there enough of you, maybe to fill one box, to make a trip in the south.
01:31:58.000 But since there was a massive attack, there was a lot of people that got caught.
01:32:03.000 So on the same day, they took us to Ushta, which is in the South, and you sleep there like one or two days, and they wait until the night time.
01:32:14.000 They go to the border in the desert and throw you guys there.
01:32:19.000 Then you figure your way up between Algerian military, who are not joking, because sometimes when they hear noises, they just shoot.
01:32:31.000 Oh, those people, they are crazy.
01:32:35.000 So you have to deal between them.
01:32:38.000 Run, hide.
01:32:39.000 It's very hard to hide in the desert.
01:32:44.000 It's flat, just sand, no trees or grass.
01:32:50.000 Kind of like very hard.
01:32:52.000 How do you hide?
01:32:52.000 Do you have to cover yourself in sand?
01:32:55.000 Yeah, and scroll, all those things.
01:32:58.000 Sometimes you go on the floor like a snake, like a cramp, until you figure out there's no noise.
01:33:05.000 There's no somebody around, then you start to walk.
01:33:08.000 At least you know, OK, I'm going to the North.
01:33:11.000 I'm following that light.
01:33:13.000 Which is in the North, which is in Morocco, which is where I want to be.
01:33:19.000 That's how we go.
01:33:21.000 Because there was a big airport, there was a Moroccan airport not far from there.
01:33:28.000 So we always use the airport light to direct ourselves to where we are going.
01:33:38.000 So how long did it take for you to get back to the border again, to touch that fence again?
01:33:47.000 This journey is not like one trip there is not that easy.
01:33:52.000 It takes a lot out of you.
01:33:53.000 Most of the time you don't eat.
01:33:55.000 So you're not really excited after you fail one time.
01:33:59.000 You're not excited to go back there.
01:34:01.000 You're tired.
01:34:02.000 I'm like, man, I mean, you kind of like drop your hands like, I don't believe this will happen one day.
01:34:12.000 I don't believe I will make it.
01:34:14.000 Hmm.
01:34:15.000 It's not possible.
01:34:16.000 It was hard.
01:34:19.000 But after a few days, you're kind of putting your stuff together.
01:34:26.000 I'm like, Man, there's no way I'm going back.
01:34:28.000 I have to do this.
01:34:30.000 And sometimes, instead of thinking of going back to the fence, you're like, okay, let me go try in the water or something.
01:34:39.000 You go, you try.
01:34:41.000 But for the water, you have to have money because you have to collect money.
01:34:46.000 You guys have to collect money to buy a...
01:34:51.000 Fleximo, but you know...
01:34:53.000 A boat?
01:34:54.000 A boat to ram.
01:34:56.000 Just a small one, the one that they use in the swimming pool.
01:34:59.000 It doesn't take a lot to...
01:35:02.000 To something that floats.
01:35:03.000 Yeah, to float.
01:35:04.000 You know, you can just with a nail, you can just like bust that boat.
01:35:10.000 It's very thin, just a raft for kids.
01:35:12.000 Yes, for kids, for swimming pool, at home.
01:35:15.000 Right.
01:35:15.000 You know, you see that in the people pool.
01:35:19.000 Yeah.
01:35:19.000 Yeah.
01:35:20.000 And this is how you're trying to get by.
01:35:21.000 This is how we're trying to get in the ocean.
01:35:23.000 Wow.
01:35:24.000 You know.
01:35:27.000 But at least we have a live vest.
01:35:31.000 That's the minimum.
01:35:32.000 You have to have that.
01:35:33.000 Yeah.
01:35:34.000 Because you don't know what's going on in there.
01:35:36.000 Right.
01:35:38.000 And sometimes you get caught even before you touch the water.
01:35:43.000 And sometimes you get in the water, after a few hours you get caught.
01:35:49.000 So I tried the deviation to go to Ceuta, which is another Spain land in Morocco.
01:36:03.000 That was a deviation.
01:36:05.000 Didn't work.
01:36:07.000 Try a few times.
01:36:08.000 Then I went back in Tanji.
01:36:10.000 Tanji is the main ocean, straight forward.
01:36:14.000 From land to land.
01:36:16.000 There is no deviation.
01:36:18.000 Straight ahead.
01:36:19.000 So you literally go in the middle of the ocean, deal with the...
01:36:27.000 Fisher with the boat, commercial boat, crossing all over.
01:36:31.000 You have to be lucky not to be seen, not to be detected, or someone not to give the alert to the border patrol in Morocco.
01:36:45.000 And they are very aware of that, very ready.
01:36:50.000 And that's how I did it a few times too.
01:36:54.000 It didn't work.
01:36:56.000 Once I did it and this time I thought we made it.
01:37:03.000 Because we paddle over like three hours.
01:37:08.000 We always put our boat in the water around five to six early in the morning when they start to pray.
01:37:18.000 We always wait that sign off because they always protect everything, stay everywhere all night.
01:37:25.000 But the time of prayer, they really respect the time to pray, which is basically 5, 5.30.
01:37:33.000 Then we always, if we get in our spot at time, we're going to wait for that time.
01:37:41.000 Allah is like the sign.
01:37:44.000 They are going to pray.
01:37:46.000 It's the open.
01:37:47.000 So you hear that, then you get in the water.
01:37:50.000 Yeah.
01:37:50.000 And they can.
01:37:51.000 And they have to go, they have to pray.
01:37:53.000 And they know that we use that open moment.
01:37:56.000 So after their prayer, they kind of like patrol to search those who have attempt, you know.
01:38:04.000 And this time that we thought we made it, like, We get past all those.
01:38:13.000 After three hours, you know that they will not be there again.
01:38:18.000 They are back home.
01:38:19.000 And we cross all these commercial boats, those people fishing.
01:38:26.000 We are going on our way.
01:38:28.000 We have a target in the other side.
01:38:33.000 The mountain.
01:38:35.000 Because it was already the daytime.
01:38:37.000 You mean when you start at 5.30, after 30, 45 minutes, it's daytime.
01:38:48.000 But you're kind of like in the middle of the water already.
01:38:54.000 And we paddle, we paddle, we gather.
01:38:58.000 And that was my first time that some group of people trusted me to be a captain.
01:39:05.000 Because I always say, I can be a captain.
01:39:08.000 I know how to paddle.
01:39:09.000 And I'm like, ah, you just want a free trip.
01:39:14.000 Because when you're a captain, you don't participate to buy a boat.
01:39:19.000 They use your knowledge.
01:39:22.000 It's kind of your participation.
01:39:24.000 Okay.
01:39:26.000 I'm like, I can't do this.
01:39:28.000 They're like, oh, there's no water in Cameroon.
01:39:30.000 You don't even know to swim.
01:39:31.000 Those people that believe in them, it's the Senegalian.
01:39:37.000 When you're from Senegal and you're like, I'm captain, they don't even have to test.
01:39:42.000 They're like, yeah, it's from Senegal.
01:39:44.000 Because it's close to the water.
01:39:45.000 Yeah.
01:39:46.000 And most of the time, they know this trick.
01:39:48.000 And all Senegalese are captains.
01:39:51.000 Then you bring some Senegalese in the water, and you have to teach them how to paddle.
01:39:58.000 I'm like, man, I'm not buying this anymore.
01:40:00.000 I'm like, I'm a captain.
01:40:02.000 But once, those kids, they trust me, and then we went there in the beach.
01:40:10.000 The first, we were a little late because they came late with the boat.
01:40:15.000 And those first like group, the trite and the vague, were so high, they couldn't make it.
01:40:23.000 The wake?
01:40:24.000 The waves?
01:40:26.000 Yes, the waves were so high.
01:40:28.000 Because we have to check like meteor and everything.
01:40:32.000 We know the speed of the wind.
01:40:36.000 We know the direction.
01:40:38.000 If it's like north, south, southwest, northwest, southwest, all these things.
01:40:44.000 We know that.
01:40:45.000 And I just learned that in Morocco.
01:40:47.000 I was a specialist.
01:40:50.000 I can look, I'm like, today is not good, man.
01:40:53.000 We can't even try.
01:40:55.000 And that day we go, and he was like, so-so.
01:41:01.000 We tried.
01:41:04.000 The first group, there were many groups before us because we made it late.
01:41:09.000 They couldn't have made it.
01:41:11.000 The waves were so high.
01:41:12.000 Throw them away.
01:41:14.000 They tried again.
01:41:15.000 Throw them away.
01:41:16.000 And they kind of like gave up.
01:41:18.000 And then I put my own.
01:41:22.000 I put air in it and then I give instructions to my guys like, okay, when I say go, you guys first go.
01:41:29.000 When I say go, you guys first go.
01:41:31.000 Because as much as we're going in the water, it gets deeper and deeper.
01:41:36.000 And at first, we can all get into when it's not so deep because we don't have the depression on it.
01:41:47.000 So it has to be very at some point before all of you guys get into.
01:41:55.000 And as a captain, you have to be the last one to get into.
01:41:59.000 To put all your guys into care about them.
01:42:04.000 Anna was a captain who doesn't know how to swim.
01:42:10.000 But I was the man.
01:42:12.000 I said, OK, I organize everything, give them paru and everything.
01:42:17.000 We get there.
01:42:18.000 I put them, I count the waves, like one, two, three, because most of the time it's like three waves.
01:42:26.000 And the third one will be the biggest one.
01:42:30.000 Then when the third one just falls, we just go behind it, behind the third one.
01:42:40.000 And you have to be very fast because the next one is coming.
01:42:46.000 No firing.
01:42:48.000 After the third one, we go.
01:42:50.000 I put them.
01:42:53.000 The first one came.
01:42:55.000 It was still okay.
01:42:56.000 I was still putting someone.
01:42:59.000 The second one, they were all inside.
01:43:03.000 The third one came.
01:43:04.000 It was the biggest one.
01:43:06.000 And those people who were trying before, they were trying before us.
01:43:13.000 They were back to see, to wait so we can fail and we go back together.
01:43:18.000 And I'm like, oh, he stinks, he can make it.
01:43:23.000 Then the third wave came.
01:43:25.000 That was like something that you see in the movie.
01:43:30.000 Just smashed you.
01:43:32.000 I hold my boat.
01:43:34.000 I'm like, I trust myself.
01:43:35.000 I trust my boat.
01:43:37.000 Like, I hold it like this.
01:43:39.000 I saw this thing came.
01:43:40.000 I'm like, put my head in the water.
01:43:43.000 Hold my boat like this.
01:43:44.000 And it came.
01:43:46.000 Blew like, vroom, on top of me.
01:43:49.000 My boat was, because he has a rope around it.
01:43:53.000 I hold it.
01:43:54.000 And he goes like, bring it back.
01:43:57.000 I was just like, with my head under, like, I bend my head like a torch.
01:44:01.000 Like, Ben like this goes and when he came back, I pulled my boat back.
01:44:10.000 They screamed like, what the hell is this?
01:44:15.000 I put it and then I just jumped on top like, let's go, let's go, let's go.
01:44:19.000 So we pattern before the next start to go because he's very high by the beach.
01:44:30.000 When the waves roll like this and it start to hit the sand, it comes up.
01:44:38.000 But the more you go in the middle of the water, you don't see that wave anymore.
01:44:44.000 So you're three and a half hours in.
01:44:47.000 You said you got like three and a half hours in deep.
01:44:50.000 No, three hours.
01:44:51.000 Three hours deep.
01:44:53.000 Three hours in the ocean.
01:44:55.000 Then what happened?
01:44:56.000 Then this Moroccan, this army boat from Morocco, I don't know where they came from.
01:45:03.000 They were just passing by like a big massive ship.
01:45:12.000 The past behind us, you know, the international line was behind us.
01:45:18.000 You know, the line that, the commercial, because I've been there many times.
01:45:23.000 I kind of like figured out where is the commercial line, the middle.
01:45:26.000 So you passed the Morocco side.
01:45:29.000 Now you're in the Spain side.
01:45:31.000 And Morocco should have left you the fuck alone.
01:45:34.000 Yeah, normally, you know.
01:45:38.000 And they almost left us.
01:45:40.000 They went down and they turned around.
01:45:46.000 It wasn't their job.
01:45:47.000 This was just like an army officer, like a big, big ship.
01:45:56.000 Not the one that they used to chase us, though.
01:46:00.000 And they came with this big ship.
01:46:04.000 They just come in front of us.
01:46:07.000 We're kind of lost.
01:46:08.000 We don't know where we were going anymore.
01:46:10.000 This thing was just in front of us.
01:46:13.000 We are blind.
01:46:14.000 We can't see anything anymore.
01:46:16.000 We don't even know the direction.
01:46:18.000 And then they stay there.
01:46:20.000 They call the board protection, the water protection.
01:46:24.000 Guess what?
01:46:25.000 There was nobody there anymore because they knew that it wasn't the time that we were in the water.
01:46:32.000 And they left.
01:46:33.000 They went for breakfast and this.
01:46:37.000 They called.
01:46:37.000 There was nobody around there.
01:46:39.000 They have to call Some ship in another city.
01:46:46.000 So they can...
01:46:48.000 It takes them like 30 minutes.
01:46:51.000 It took them like 30 minutes to come over and to take us.
01:46:56.000 So why do they come in our front?
01:46:58.000 Because they know that the Red Cross can see us.
01:47:01.000 And the Red Cross is coming from the other side.
01:47:05.000 Because as soon as they started to turn around, we always have a phone with a Spanish SIM card Oh.
01:47:14.000 And we have a Red Cross number.
01:47:17.000 So you have a phone with a Spain SIM card in it so you can call the Spain Red Cross?
01:47:22.000 Yeah.
01:47:23.000 We call the Red Cross because their job is just to save people.
01:47:26.000 They don't want to know where you're coming from, where you are from.
01:47:30.000 Right.
01:47:30.000 That's not their problem.
01:47:32.000 They just want, they just know that this is a life to save.
01:47:36.000 Right.
01:47:37.000 They save life.
01:47:40.000 And we called them, but we couldn't tell them even where we are.
01:47:44.000 They couldn't even see us.
01:47:46.000 There were these big things in front of us.
01:47:50.000 I mean, it made us invisible.
01:47:54.000 Right.
01:47:55.000 And we waited.
01:47:56.000 We waited until they come take us.
01:47:59.000 And what happened then?
01:48:01.000 We go back to the same process.
01:48:04.000 Police station.
01:48:05.000 A few days in the police station.
01:48:08.000 Then another city, a few days.
01:48:11.000 Throw back in the...
01:48:12.000 Take it back to the desert again.
01:48:14.000 To the desert again.
01:48:15.000 Jesus Christ.
01:48:17.000 That was in December 2012. So how many months into this trip are you now?
01:48:27.000 Since I left Cameroon April 3rd.
01:48:32.000 Yeah.
01:48:34.000 It took me about three weeks to get in Morocco, so I was in Morocco for so long now.
01:48:41.000 That wasn't my first try.
01:48:46.000 I have tried many times.
01:48:51.000 Man, that day I was pissed off.
01:48:55.000 Because you were close.
01:48:56.000 I was close.
01:48:57.000 This close.
01:48:58.000 Like you see your life, you see your dream turn to nothing.
01:49:02.000 Like that.
01:49:04.000 You go back to hell.
01:49:07.000 Then from there, I don't know why I promised myself that with all those experiences, I promised myself that the next time that I'm touching this water, I'm done.
01:49:19.000 I'm not coming back.
01:49:25.000 When you get into this, you get mad.
01:49:28.000 I'm like, yeah, you get into it.
01:49:31.000 It's time.
01:49:32.000 I'm doing this.
01:49:33.000 It's like you have to take your revenge.
01:49:38.000 But the winter was coming.
01:49:41.000 It was cold.
01:49:42.000 The water was so bad.
01:49:44.000 We couldn't try it anymore by that time.
01:49:48.000 But the good thing is, from there, people give me credit for being a captain.
01:49:55.000 A captain.
01:49:56.000 I'm like, wow, he's a hell of captain.
01:50:00.000 Like, right where they left us in the beach, they couldn't make it.
01:50:06.000 They saw how I put it.
01:50:10.000 So they went back, and I'm like, we have a damn captain here named Vanda.
01:50:14.000 Because back there, they was calling me Vanda.
01:50:18.000 Why Vandam?
01:50:20.000 Oh, they always have a nickname for me.
01:50:22.000 Oh, okay.
01:50:22.000 What does Vandam mean?
01:50:24.000 Uh, Vandam.
01:50:25.000 Jean-Claude Vandam.
01:50:25.000 Oh!
01:50:30.000 That's awesome.
01:50:31.000 Yeah.
01:50:31.000 If it's not Schwarzenegger or...
01:50:33.000 Oh, that's funny.
01:50:34.000 You're a hero.
01:50:35.000 Gladiator.
01:50:36.000 Yeah.
01:50:36.000 No.
01:50:37.000 No, it's always...
01:50:38.000 They always give me a nickname.
01:50:39.000 Okay.
01:50:40.000 Yeah.
01:50:41.000 Well, they're all hero nicknames.
01:50:44.000 Schwarzenegger, Gladiator.
01:50:45.000 Yeah.
01:50:46.000 So how did you finally get through?
01:50:50.000 The next time that I touched the water.
01:50:52.000 So after the winter...
01:50:53.000 How long ago?
01:50:54.000 How long passed?
01:50:55.000 Like how many more months?
01:50:56.000 Like three months and a half, so all the winter, we couldn't make it.
01:51:01.000 We go back to the forest to attempt to defend again.
01:51:08.000 But that life condition was so harsh, we couldn't do anything.
01:51:13.000 Like get cold all the time, no clothes, no food.
01:51:18.000 It's really hard.
01:51:19.000 You have to go to the market at night time to go find food in the trash, you know, sometimes arguing with rats in the trash, like, hey, get away of these tomatoes.
01:51:31.000 It's mine.
01:51:32.000 These rotten tomatoes are mine, not yours.
01:51:36.000 Go back in the forest, figure out how to cook that in the aluminium bucket or something.
01:51:47.000 So if it wasn't your life, you would never believe this?
01:51:50.000 No, no, no.
01:51:50.000 And even though it is your life.
01:51:52.000 No, no.
01:51:52.000 I couldn't believe it.
01:51:53.000 Even though it was your life, it's still hard for you to believe.
01:51:56.000 Yep.
01:51:57.000 You know the first time that we went in the water?
01:52:01.000 Like, we were led by an Ivory Coast guy.
01:52:06.000 And this guy, he was a good captain.
01:52:09.000 He knows the thing.
01:52:11.000 He knew exactly what he was doing.
01:52:14.000 And he was very good in the water.
01:52:17.000 He knows how to swim.
01:52:18.000 He knows everything.
01:52:20.000 So they saw us.
01:52:23.000 That was our first time.
01:52:26.000 And this guy had a lot of experience into this.
01:52:30.000 And he's been there for so long.
01:52:32.000 So he's kind of like mad about it.
01:52:35.000 Like, okay, it's time.
01:52:36.000 I'm done with this.
01:52:37.000 I have to do it.
01:52:39.000 Whatever there is.
01:52:41.000 As time goes by, you're kind of open to take more risk.
01:52:47.000 At first, I'm like, I don't know about this.
01:52:50.000 It's risky.
01:52:50.000 It's dangerous.
01:52:52.000 And then after time, over and over, I'm like, whatever it takes, I'm doing it.
01:53:00.000 He was at that point.
01:53:01.000 We weren't there yet.
01:53:04.000 He was there already.
01:53:06.000 And then he brought us to...
01:53:10.000 This is supposed to be a deviation, but they saw us before, the military saw us before we get in the water.
01:53:18.000 And he was in the dark.
01:53:19.000 We were on the hill.
01:53:21.000 There was a big hill like this.
01:53:23.000 We have to go all the way down to touch the water.
01:53:26.000 But in the middle of the hill, there was a road and the military patrol was there.
01:53:34.000 We put the air on our boat, right, in the upstairs, in the dark, and get the paddle to some people to carry, so we can carry the boat, because we have to, like, really protect him.
01:53:47.000 Even a stone or something can just burst.
01:53:51.000 We have to really be very careful.
01:53:54.000 And then by the road, there was a patrol guy with a torch, because they sent an alert that something is going on in your area.
01:54:08.000 And the guy just saw us, and we thought it was over.
01:54:14.000 This captain, he's just like, let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go!
01:54:19.000 I'm like, going where?
01:54:20.000 We are not seeing nothing.
01:54:21.000 But you hold the boat, he's going with the boat, this is your life.
01:54:26.000 You're not letting him go with your life, so we just followed.
01:54:31.000 And we were in the dark and we just fell in the water like the stone and everything.
01:54:39.000 We had a chance.
01:54:42.000 Our boat didn't hit on something, so it was still good.
01:54:46.000 But they caught the two people behind because there were six of us.
01:54:50.000 They caught the two people behind with the paddle.
01:54:56.000 So we fell in the water.
01:54:58.000 No pattern.
01:54:59.000 And the military, they were just there.
01:55:04.000 And I'm like, with their touch, you know, in the dark, when you're in the dark, there might just be four of them, but they use the touch and sweep it like this.
01:55:14.000 It blinds your eyes.
01:55:16.000 You don't know where you're going.
01:55:18.000 But we get calm.
01:55:20.000 You just hold.
01:55:21.000 The boat.
01:55:22.000 This is my life.
01:55:23.000 I'm not letting this go.
01:55:25.000 I'm dying with it.
01:55:27.000 We found ourselves in the middle of the water and they were there like, Haji!
01:55:34.000 Haji!
01:55:35.000 Come here!
01:55:37.000 In Moroccan.
01:55:38.000 I'm like, no, we are not coming.
01:55:41.000 We're trying to get there, and when we get in the boat, we find out that there are two of us missing, basically those with the paddle.
01:55:52.000 Right.
01:55:52.000 How are we going to paddle without paddle?
01:55:56.000 Right.
01:55:57.000 And I was thinking that we're just going to Give up, like, you know, turn ourselves in.
01:56:09.000 The guy was like, listen, we're going to paddle with our hands.
01:56:15.000 I'm like, okay, this guy might be stupid or something.
01:56:19.000 Like, people die in the world, in the ocean, paddling with the real paddle.
01:56:24.000 And we are just going to paddle with our hands.
01:56:29.000 How crazy is that?
01:56:30.000 Yeah.
01:56:31.000 You know?
01:56:33.000 And I'm like, listen to me.
01:56:35.000 I was very confident.
01:56:37.000 Good captain.
01:56:38.000 Like, motivate you guys.
01:56:39.000 Like, listen to me.
01:56:41.000 You see that, like, we are going there.
01:56:42.000 You guys, you do this.
01:56:44.000 On this side, you do this.
01:56:45.000 We do this.
01:56:46.000 We do that.
01:56:47.000 I'm like, yeah, okay.
01:56:50.000 Well, as you say so, I started.
01:56:53.000 I sit in the boat.
01:56:54.000 I'm like, paddling, touching the water like this.
01:56:59.000 I'm like, put your, you guys, you should put your horn deeper so you can pull the water.
01:57:03.000 That's how the boat is going to move.
01:57:05.000 I'm like, okay.
01:57:07.000 Just doing it like, oh, whatever.
01:57:10.000 I'm like, okay, when the boat is going this way, you guys, you should stop paddle and then you guys should paddle faster so he can bring it back.
01:57:21.000 This is how we direct the boat, you know.
01:57:25.000 Man!
01:57:27.000 For real?
01:57:28.000 For the first time?
01:57:30.000 I'm going to die just like this?
01:57:34.000 My family don't even know.
01:57:36.000 They won't even see my body, man.
01:57:39.000 I won't even...
01:57:40.000 And now, like...
01:57:42.000 I'm already into it.
01:57:45.000 There's no way back.
01:57:48.000 Keep doing it, doing it.
01:57:50.000 And at some point, we were, like, very desperate.
01:57:54.000 At some point, I just look in the back around.
01:57:59.000 I'm like, the mountain was like far.
01:58:02.000 I'm like, where were we?
01:58:06.000 Because I thought we were just like a few yards away.
01:58:10.000 He was moving.
01:58:11.000 I'm like, where were we?
01:58:14.000 The guy said like, You don't see it?
01:58:18.000 That mountain?
01:58:19.000 I'm like, so we came from there to here?
01:58:23.000 By hand?
01:58:25.000 He said, yes.
01:58:26.000 Man, you don't know.
01:58:28.000 Like, I don't know.
01:58:30.000 Suddenly, I have this crazy power and energy.
01:58:34.000 I'm like, man, we are going to make a story then.
01:58:37.000 We are going to make it in Europe, pattern with our hands.
01:58:43.000 So, he's walking.
01:58:45.000 Then I start to paddle.
01:58:47.000 I became a captain at that moment.
01:58:50.000 Like, so excited.
01:58:52.000 I'm like, paddle in this side.
01:58:54.000 The guy, my...
01:58:56.000 There was some guy here.
01:58:59.000 Even my cousin.
01:59:00.000 He was throwing up on this.
01:59:02.000 I was paddling here.
01:59:03.000 Turn here.
01:59:04.000 Paddling.
01:59:05.000 Move here.
01:59:06.000 Paddling this way.
01:59:07.000 Block here.
01:59:08.000 I was like, man, we are...
01:59:11.000 Making stories.
01:59:12.000 Nobody ever made this.
01:59:15.000 You know?
01:59:15.000 They have seen a lot of things.
01:59:17.000 Meadow this one.
01:59:19.000 We paddle, we paddle, and the boat was moving like...
01:59:26.000 We're making it!
01:59:27.000 We're going to make this!
01:59:28.000 But unfortunately that night, since they caught two people, two of us, they sent the alert to those guys ahead.
01:59:39.000 So they sent this machine board.
01:59:44.000 So at some point we just heard this guy, he said, hold on, hold on, hold on, silence, silence.
01:59:52.000 Do you hear this?
01:59:53.000 I'm like, what?
01:59:54.000 I'm like, there's an engine.
01:59:57.000 There's an engine somewhere here.
02:00:01.000 So, and then I said, I don't hear it.
02:00:08.000 I'm like, they know where we are.
02:00:11.000 They're kind of like looking for us.
02:00:16.000 And I'm like, how come?
02:00:19.000 I'm telling you.
02:00:21.000 Then he said, okay, if they come here, just say it was three of you guys.
02:00:26.000 Yes, but we are four.
02:00:28.000 I'm going to swim.
02:00:29.000 I'm going to get in the water.
02:00:31.000 We are in the middle of the ocean, bro.
02:00:34.000 Don't die on us.
02:00:36.000 I mean, if you're done living, but don't just die here, you're going to traumatize us.
02:00:43.000 And then here I'm like, believe me.
02:00:45.000 Just say it was three of you guys.
02:00:47.000 So when they pull you, I'm going to hang on it.
02:00:53.000 And then when they coast, I'm going to continue by swimming because you're going to be very close.
02:01:01.000 Man, how crazy is this?
02:01:03.000 In the mirror of the ocean, this guy gets in the water and suddenly they just put a light on us.
02:01:15.000 I don't know how they call that light.
02:01:17.000 Spotlight.
02:01:17.000 Spotlight, the projector.
02:01:19.000 And it was very bright.
02:01:21.000 Like, you can't even see nothing.
02:01:23.000 So we are bending our head like this, covering our eyes to see a little bit.
02:01:30.000 Since they told them it was four of us, and they just see three, so they knew that there was somebody somewhere else.
02:01:41.000 They have to look for that person.
02:01:44.000 They started to turn around, and our captain, he was like, Very good at swimming.
02:01:50.000 Getting in the water here, get out there, just put his head out there.
02:01:55.000 We could have seen his head just swinging like this, and then get in the water, get out there, swinging like this, like a fish.
02:02:07.000 I'm like, man, it's crazy.
02:02:10.000 But they found it.
02:02:14.000 They caught him.
02:02:16.000 They took us.
02:02:16.000 Put her in there.
02:02:17.000 Bring us.
02:02:20.000 Same thing?
02:02:21.000 That was the first time.
02:02:23.000 And this is the same thing.
02:02:24.000 They take you down.
02:02:25.000 They bring you down to the south.
02:02:27.000 Yeah.
02:02:27.000 Same thing.
02:02:28.000 Same trip.
02:02:28.000 Let you go in the desert.
02:02:30.000 Yep.
02:02:31.000 But we got lucky.
02:02:36.000 We didn't get beat up.
02:02:37.000 Because the officer was there.
02:02:39.000 You know, officer.
02:02:41.000 They are like...
02:02:43.000 They went to school.
02:02:44.000 They're kind of like civilized.
02:02:46.000 They speak French.
02:02:47.000 So they talk.
02:02:48.000 They understand.
02:02:49.000 They speak with you.
02:02:50.000 And I'm like, you African, you're crazy.
02:02:54.000 Because they call us African.
02:02:56.000 Well, like, guess what?
02:02:57.000 You're African too.
02:02:59.000 I'm like, no, we are Mal-Caribbean.
02:03:00.000 I'm like, oh, whatever.
02:03:02.000 It's a big continent.
02:03:04.000 Yeah.
02:03:04.000 So how did you eventually get through?
02:03:08.000 That was my number 7th time in the world.
02:03:11.000 7th time?
02:03:12.000 Yes, 7th time.
02:03:15.000 April 3rd, 2013. And when we get rescued by the Red Cross, because I was already like, I had a lot of experience.
02:03:29.000 I already know how to dock radars and everything.
02:03:33.000 You learn a lot of things doing this.
02:03:35.000 You know, like we took either the aluminum paper and wrapped it around the boat.
02:03:44.000 That blocks the radar?
02:03:45.000 Yes, it blocks the radars.
02:03:46.000 Really?
02:03:47.000 Yeah.
02:03:48.000 Either the city, the military.
02:03:51.000 One guy told us that once, when they get caught.
02:03:54.000 They said, oh, we saw you guys since, even before you touched the water, but we just want to wait to come.
02:04:04.000 Cut you after.
02:04:06.000 And he'll give us these tips next time.
02:04:10.000 But we saw you, and we didn't even want to, but we have to.
02:04:14.000 So they told you.
02:04:16.000 So he didn't want to get you, but he told you he had to.
02:04:18.000 It's his job.
02:04:19.000 Right.
02:04:20.000 But he told you if you just wrap it in aluminum foil, no one's going to see it?
02:04:23.000 Yeah.
02:04:23.000 Whoa.
02:04:24.000 Yeah, he told us.
02:04:25.000 So over time, I kind of accumulate all this experience.
02:04:31.000 And I'm like, okay, next time that I'm touching this water, I'm not coming back.
02:04:39.000 So how'd you do it?
02:04:41.000 So I was in the forest then for the whole winter because I couldn't even go back to the city to find a job.
02:04:52.000 I was done with that.
02:04:53.000 I'm like, man, I'm done with that.
02:04:55.000 I could have just stayed in Cameroon and keep working the same thing.
02:05:00.000 I'm not coming to a foreign country doing the same shit.
02:05:03.000 It's over.
02:05:04.000 I'm here for something.
02:05:05.000 I stick on what I'm here for.
02:05:07.000 I don't want to get distracted.
02:05:09.000 I stay in the forest, so every day before I go to sleep, I remember why I'm here.
02:05:15.000 Every day that I wake up, I see Melia out there, and it reminds me why I'm here.
02:05:22.000 I don't want to go back in the city in Rabat or Casablanca or this anymore.
02:05:28.000 I'm done with that.
02:05:29.000 I'm staying here.
02:05:32.000 But after the winter started to get over, I had a friend who called me and I was like, Francis, I have this guy, they have a boat, the water is starting to get better now, not too much waves and this.
02:05:47.000 They have a boat, I would like you to come to our city so we can take them together.
02:05:54.000 I trust you and myself, you should come.
02:05:59.000 I called in my country and asked for my mom and my brother, like, I need money.
02:06:09.000 I'm like, we don't have money.
02:06:10.000 I'm like, man, figure out.
02:06:12.000 I have some picks, some stuff before I leave.
02:06:14.000 I'm like, sell everything.
02:06:16.000 I need money.
02:06:17.000 I need clothes and shoes and I need to pay a box, buy a box ticket to go to this city.
02:06:24.000 They figured out.
02:06:25.000 I think they found like 200 bucks.
02:06:28.000 They sent it to me.
02:06:31.000 I went to the bus station.
02:06:33.000 I bought a bus ticket.
02:06:36.000 It was two of us, me and one of my cousin's friends.
02:06:41.000 My cousin has married by the gate.
02:06:45.000 And we couldn't even marry because there were cops all around.
02:06:52.000 So I didn't want to find myself in Ujda, in the desert anymore.
02:06:57.000 By the winter, if you get there, it's not good at all.
02:07:04.000 It's like, what, maybe 30 degrees in Ujda, and you don't have clothes.
02:07:11.000 And in this condition, You don't come out there the same.
02:07:18.000 He takes a lot out of you.
02:07:21.000 So, we get back in the forest.
02:07:24.000 We couldn't make it.
02:07:25.000 And the next day, like at a...
02:07:28.000 not the next day, maybe two days after, because all the time the police come in the forest to chase us.
02:07:36.000 They know where we are in the forest.
02:07:37.000 The forest is very big, very pretty close to the city, but they come and they're trying to surround us because there's many of them.
02:07:50.000 And we always have somebody looking up, like looking for the police.
02:07:57.000 By 4 o'clock, 4 a.m.
02:08:00.000 sometime, you will just sleep in, you will just hear like, Boomla!
02:08:04.000 When you hear Boomla, you know, cops are around.
02:08:08.000 What does that mean?
02:08:08.000 What does Boomla mean?
02:08:09.000 Police?
02:08:11.000 It's not like police, but the action that the police, we call the action boomlah.
02:08:18.000 So they come to catch us.
02:08:20.000 We call that action.
02:08:22.000 It's like a slang.
02:08:28.000 And when you hear that boomlah, you have to run.
02:08:31.000 We have this plastic that we, because in the forest, we put stones together, build like a little shatter, and then find a plastic and put on top of it, not to get wet when we are sleeping.
02:08:47.000 So we build it like two feet high, put plastic on top, you know, and then get inside and sleep.
02:08:57.000 We beg for blankets.
02:09:00.000 We have some people donate to us, even some association who will come sometime give us medication.
02:09:11.000 Sometime we will get blankets.
02:09:13.000 So, your main thing is your plastic and your blanket.
02:09:19.000 But sometimes, when the police come, they put the fire on your blanket and your plastic.
02:09:26.000 So whenever now, when they say, You have to save your blanket and your plastic because that's your survival toils.
02:09:38.000 Without them, you're nothing.
02:09:41.000 You're going to have a nightmare every night.
02:09:48.000 So when they say, The first thing you do, you wrap your blanket, you wrap your plastic, you climb on top of the tree sometimes to hide it, but sometimes they climb on top of it.
02:10:01.000 They see that and they climb on top to take it and burn it.
02:10:07.000 So you wrap it sometimes, you just run with it.
02:10:11.000 You don't know how this run is going to end.
02:10:16.000 Maybe you're going to get caught because they always surround you.
02:10:21.000 Then we're gonna like sometime when you find found out you find out that you get surrounded you just go to hide somewhere and you're gonna stay like immobile for hours because they have like uh how they call miniculars Benarculus?
02:10:42.000 Benarculus.
02:10:43.000 To look from the other side and communicate over the turkey walking, like seeing if there is emotion somewhere, some people.
02:10:52.000 So we have to get in the hardest part in the forest, that they can get there.
02:11:01.000 Even if they are suspecting that we might be there, just this stake, It doesn't allow them to go there because they get hurt.
02:11:14.000 So you have to go to this pain to support all this pain.
02:11:18.000 Like, okay, he's hurting, but this is my only way to survive because they can come there to find you.
02:11:26.000 Even though, because they are not sure 100% that you're there to take all that risk.
02:11:32.000 So you have to stay quiet for like hours.
02:11:40.000 Then, under the rain sometimes, whatever is the issue, you have to stay there.
02:11:46.000 And sometimes, if you're really surrounded, if you see them before they surround you guys, you just start to run over the mountains and mountains for hours before then.
02:12:01.000 Spend a few hours in the run before coming back in the evening, knowing that they might be back because they have to go back.
02:12:11.000 They get tired too.
02:12:12.000 They have to eat.
02:12:13.000 They have to do all these things.
02:12:14.000 You can take that, but they cannot take that as much as you guys.
02:12:19.000 So that's how we do that.
02:12:23.000 So, after missing my boss to go to Tanger, two days after I came back and I have some phone.
02:12:34.000 You know, we have some phone.
02:12:35.000 It was just for call.
02:12:37.000 And I turn on my phone because we always turn off to save batteries.
02:12:42.000 He has to stay like two weeks.
02:12:44.000 You don't want to go down there in the...
02:12:49.000 Internet shop, why maybe charging your phone, get caught by the police, which is very stupid, you know.
02:12:58.000 And so I turned my phone on.
02:13:01.000 I saw like a dwarf missing call.
02:13:05.000 I'm like, something's going on.
02:13:11.000 I called some people and I'm like, man, Ito Boza!
02:13:18.000 Which means the guy that was waiting for me, he made it in Spain.
02:13:27.000 I just see the sky fell on top of my head.
02:13:31.000 I'm like, damn, what the hell?
02:13:35.000 I should have been in this.
02:13:40.000 I'm like, man, what do I do to deserve this?
02:13:45.000 Everything is turning wrong for me.
02:13:48.000 I'm doing everything.
02:13:49.000 Nothing is going well.
02:13:52.000 But guess what?
02:13:53.000 I'm out of here.
02:13:54.000 I'm not staying here anymore.
02:13:57.000 Some people were texting me like, okay, we have come here.
02:14:02.000 We're going to organize.
02:14:03.000 We're going to buy a boat.
02:14:04.000 I'm like, Like, bro, I don't have time to wait for who's going to buy a boat sometime soon.
02:14:13.000 I'm going for those.
02:14:14.000 And I have these people that, this guy, that he'd been texting me, being like, we want you to go with us, this, that, like, literally begging me to be the captain.
02:14:27.000 Because I was a famous captain by the time.
02:14:32.000 And I'm like, man, you ready?
02:14:35.000 I'm like, yes.
02:14:38.000 I said, I can't sleep here in the forest.
02:14:40.000 I can't take it.
02:14:42.000 I just go to the bus station, book a plane ticket.
02:14:46.000 I'm like, I get caught, I get caught.
02:14:48.000 Whatever happens, happens.
02:14:50.000 I'm not going back.
02:14:53.000 I didn't get caught.
02:14:55.000 I got back in Rabat.
02:14:58.000 The guy was in Rabat.
02:14:59.000 They was working.
02:15:01.000 And here I'm like, this was Tuesday.
02:15:05.000 Monday night.
02:15:06.000 I get there Tuesday morning.
02:15:07.000 Here I'm like, hey, we are working to these people.
02:15:13.000 They're going to pay us on Saturday.
02:15:16.000 I'm like, guess what?
02:15:18.000 I can stay until Saturday.
02:15:19.000 I can't.
02:15:23.000 We are going on Thursday.
02:15:26.000 I'm like, okay, go there and see how things work.
02:15:30.000 We will go, see how things work, and the other people will come.
02:15:34.000 Because we collect our money together to buy this boat.
02:15:42.000 And for now, it's still like the end of the winter.
02:15:46.000 So the water is not that calm.
02:15:49.000 You have to find a window.
02:15:52.000 And for that, you have to check the weather, the meteor all the time, every day, every single day.
02:16:01.000 So, we move.
02:16:03.000 On Thursday, we travel to Tangier.
02:16:08.000 We get, as soon as I touch ground in Tangier, I get fever.
02:16:14.000 I get sick.
02:16:15.000 I couldn't tell them that I'm sick.
02:16:18.000 They were counting on me to bring them in Europe.
02:16:22.000 So I can't show any sign of weakness to let them know that something is wrong.
02:16:33.000 I didn't have any money left.
02:16:35.000 I couldn't even buy food.
02:16:37.000 But, you know, I was very known in Tanji and very trusted.
02:16:44.000 So sometimes I'm like, hey man, just give me food.
02:16:48.000 Whenever I get money, I'll pay you.
02:16:52.000 And some few people, they trust me.
02:16:55.000 They know me.
02:16:57.000 And sometimes they give me.
02:17:00.000 But I always give some little service to people to get money.
02:17:06.000 Like first, if somebody wants to know how is the meteor, how is the weather, if the weather is good or not, even though I looked already, I'm like, Oh man, you have to pay for the internet for me to look at that.
02:17:21.000 Otherwise, you won't know.
02:17:24.000 And because I know exactly how it works, so I can pull up that thing and show him like, okay, you see this?
02:17:31.000 The wind is...
02:17:33.000 Ten miles per hour, so it's kind of like high.
02:17:36.000 It has to be like maximum eight miles per hour.
02:17:42.000 Like three miles per hour is good, you know.
02:17:47.000 And the wind is north to south while we are going from south to north.
02:17:53.000 So the wind is opposite wide and it's very strong.
02:17:56.000 So we're going to be hit by them.
02:17:58.000 They're going to slow us down.
02:17:59.000 We can't make it.
02:18:00.000 So I kind of like explain all that process to them and they like it.
02:18:05.000 So when somebody needs to know exactly what's going on when they are preparing, they're going to ask me.
02:18:11.000 I'm like, you know, you have to pay for my internet.
02:18:15.000 Sometimes I'm like, hey man, I can't look that thing.
02:18:17.000 I'm like, okay, we're paying for internet.
02:18:20.000 I'm like, hey man, I'm so hungry so I can't even see.
02:18:23.000 My eye is blind.
02:18:24.000 So they're going to buy me something.
02:18:28.000 That was my trick to eat sometimes.
02:18:30.000 Wow.
02:18:31.000 And then they will buy you like a bread.
02:18:33.000 So how did you finally do it though?
02:18:36.000 How did you finally get across?
02:18:37.000 That was the last time.
02:18:39.000 That was the last time.
02:18:40.000 The last time.
02:18:40.000 So you made it all the way through.
02:18:42.000 Yeah.
02:18:42.000 People saw me.
02:18:43.000 Some people saw me and I'm like, oh.
02:18:46.000 If this guy is your captain, that means you're not coming back here.
02:18:53.000 They even want that guy to kick out some people and put them back.
02:18:59.000 They're trying to pay extra money just for him to put them back.
02:19:05.000 I can't.
02:19:06.000 It's not mine.
02:19:07.000 It's not my call.
02:19:08.000 We collect.
02:19:09.000 We put money together to buy it.
02:19:11.000 I'm not the one in charge.
02:19:13.000 We are all in charge.
02:19:15.000 I can't put somebody out.
02:19:17.000 And I was like, yes, because you have a lot of chance to make it since you have found them as a captain.
02:19:26.000 And I was like, okay, how many are you guys?
02:19:31.000 Nine.
02:19:32.000 But we can take ten.
02:19:34.000 Like, no, the captain says nine because we are big guys.
02:19:38.000 And normally this thing shouldn't even be taking nine, even though sometimes they put more than nine.
02:19:45.000 But we are big guys.
02:19:46.000 I don't count myself as one person.
02:19:49.000 I have to count it like two persons.
02:19:52.000 Because if you miscount, you're putting your life in risk.
02:19:58.000 And that's how we get there.
02:20:01.000 So you finally made it all the way to the other side.
02:20:04.000 You call the Red Cross.
02:20:06.000 I finally, like, I waited because the water wasn't so good those days.
02:20:12.000 I waited, I waited, and I'm like, okay, this day, next Tuesday, it's good.
02:20:20.000 And he calls.
02:20:22.000 So...
02:20:25.000 the police in the city, because they control the bus station.
02:20:30.000 If they see too much people come, come in basically with big bags, they kind of like figure out something is going on.
02:20:38.000 You know, they are preparing something.
02:20:40.000 Right.
02:20:40.000 Then they're going to reinforce the security.
02:20:43.000 So like we'd let them, other people back in Rabat with the boat and paddle and everything.
02:20:53.000 They just came the same day that we live because we didn't want to bring any attention to us.
02:21:02.000 And I'm like, Tuesday.
02:21:04.000 Tuesday is the day.
02:21:06.000 And I'm like, so I can tell them to come on Tuesday?
02:21:11.000 I'm like, yeah.
02:21:14.000 Okay.
02:21:14.000 They are coming on Tuesday.
02:21:18.000 I have to find this taxi driver who's going to take us because they are not authorized to do that.
02:21:25.000 But there are some people who did it because it's like a mafia.
02:21:29.000 You have to pay way more, you know, stuff that they will pay like 20 bucks or he asks you for 150 or 200 bucks because it's illegal.
02:21:42.000 He's taking risk.
02:21:43.000 Right.
02:21:44.000 Then you agree with it.
02:21:46.000 You need that.
02:21:47.000 You need that person to do that work for you and to help you go where you're going.
02:21:55.000 We get the driver ready, put everything together.
02:21:59.000 When they came on Tuesday, on Tuesday, and I was still sick.
02:22:05.000 But getting better, Normally, the captain doesn't support to carry anything because they save him.
02:22:14.000 He has to save his energy for the big work, which is like to paddle, to direction everything, to coordinate everything in the water.
02:22:23.000 But where we were going to put our Odiak, our boat, there were a lot of corps there.
02:22:31.000 We couldn't make it.
02:22:33.000 So we have to go all the way around.
02:22:36.000 We couldn't go back.
02:22:43.000 It's like going in the forest, jumping in the fence, all those stuff.
02:22:50.000 And it's going to take a long time, a very long time, because the forest was very dense.
02:22:58.000 And the way that these people are moving, I'm like, we are not going to make it.
02:23:02.000 So I have to take this thing, this boat and carry it.
02:23:07.000 I'm like, okay, you guys, if you want to go, you better follow where the boat is going.
02:23:13.000 Because I won't be waiting for you guys since you support to carry the boat.
02:23:17.000 They're moving too slow.
02:23:18.000 Yeah, you're moving too slow.
02:23:20.000 We go all night long until like at the end we end to a place like a big steep.
02:23:29.000 It goes down like this.
02:23:33.000 I mean, those kind of places that when you go down, you can't come back anymore.
02:23:39.000 Right.
02:23:40.000 And then we went down there.
02:23:42.000 We all made it.
02:23:44.000 The problem now, where to put it?
02:23:48.000 Because there were all like stones, no sand, no beach.
02:23:53.000 The original place was like a beach.
02:23:55.000 So with sand, so we can walk and put our ball, we can put air in it.
02:24:00.000 Everything was perfect there, but those places...
02:24:04.000 Too much rocks.
02:24:05.000 So you don't want to get the raft damaged.
02:24:08.000 Yes.
02:24:08.000 Then I'm like, okay, how are we going to do this?
02:24:13.000 You know, sometimes when it's the day, it's the day.
02:24:17.000 Nothing can stop you.
02:24:18.000 And everything is putting himself together to make it happen.
02:24:24.000 Mm-hmm.
02:24:25.000 I told the guy, I was the captain.
02:24:27.000 I have to figure out.
02:24:28.000 They don't care.
02:24:29.000 You are the captain.
02:24:30.000 That's your business.
02:24:32.000 They are hoping they just wait for you.
02:24:35.000 Basically, for most of them, it was their first time.
02:24:38.000 So they don't even know how it works.
02:24:41.000 I was just expecting them not to turn back when they see the water in the face.
02:24:50.000 Because most of the time, Oh, I want to go in Europe.
02:24:53.000 I want to do this.
02:24:54.000 Collect money.
02:24:55.000 Buy the boat.
02:24:56.000 Get there.
02:24:56.000 See the water.
02:24:57.000 See the wave.
02:24:58.000 Hear the wave.
02:24:59.000 Like, boom!
02:25:00.000 I'm like, I don't want to go to Europe anymore.
02:25:04.000 Like, I'm not getting in there.
02:25:06.000 I'm going back.
02:25:07.000 You know what?
02:25:07.000 Take the boat, take the craft.
02:25:10.000 I'm not in it anymore.
02:25:11.000 Take my money, everything.
02:25:13.000 But the problem, if somebody did that where we are, the only way back is to go back to the beach and there was a police there.
02:25:22.000 And the police will know, they will know that something is going on here.
02:25:26.000 And they will send an alert so they will come.
02:25:29.000 So you have to make sure everybody goes with you.
02:25:31.000 I have to make sure nobody gives up.
02:25:34.000 Nobody leaves.
02:25:37.000 First, I told them, like, okay, guys, wait here.
02:25:40.000 Let me go find the place.
02:25:44.000 When something means to happen, everything comes together to make it happen.
02:25:50.000 Like, suddenly, I found a place just enough to put the air on the craft.
02:25:57.000 I mean, it was this small, like this table.
02:26:00.000 Not even as much as this table.
02:26:03.000 A little smaller.
02:26:04.000 Yeah.
02:26:04.000 Then I'm like, wow, this is cool.
02:26:07.000 We can put the air here.
02:26:08.000 But how to get between the stone to get in the water?
02:26:12.000 You know, because he doesn't have to touch the stone.
02:26:19.000 The stone has to scrape it.
02:26:20.000 Yeah.
02:26:21.000 He doesn't have to touch the stone.
02:26:23.000 And basically, like with the waves, the waves keep smashing you.
02:26:27.000 You can really get in the...
02:26:30.000 You can smash you over the stone.
02:26:33.000 And when the waves smash in the stone, it's not the same way that the waves smash in the beach.
02:26:39.000 Because in the beach, the sun is like this.
02:26:42.000 So it's taking it like this.
02:26:43.000 But the stone is just strong and there.
02:26:46.000 And it's like, boom!
02:26:48.000 So you better don't be in between stone and the waves.
02:26:55.000 So, I'm like, okay, where are we going to go?
02:27:00.000 Suddenly, some place appeared to be right there, a working place between stones.
02:27:08.000 I walk around, look, and I found a small beach, just as this table, just to put the boat.
02:27:18.000 I always keep asking myself, that place really exists or it was just something that God put it there to make us go because it meant to happen.
02:27:32.000 I'm not sure.
02:27:33.000 It was just so perfect for a very weird place to find out all those things together.
02:27:40.000 Just a small enough beach, just perfect.
02:27:43.000 Small enough, just a small enough place to go to the beach, from the stone to the beach.
02:27:51.000 Man, just perfect.
02:27:53.000 I went back, I told this guy, let's go.
02:27:57.000 So I have to like, change my tongue, how I talk.
02:28:04.000 I have to Motivate them.
02:28:07.000 Not only motivate them.
02:28:09.000 It's not about motivate them.
02:28:11.000 You have to scare them.
02:28:12.000 They have to look scared at you than at the waves.
02:28:16.000 Ah, yeah.
02:28:19.000 Because you're not taking a chance that somebody turn around.
02:28:22.000 Right, and quit.
02:28:23.000 And then get caught.
02:28:24.000 If somebody quit, you're getting caught.
02:28:26.000 So I took a paddle, just start yelling on them, like feinting them, like, man, just change.
02:28:36.000 So it has to be like the point that he...
02:28:41.000 You're going to be afraid of the waves, but turn around, see me, get scared of me, so you better keep going.
02:28:51.000 Otherwise, we're not going to make it.
02:28:53.000 You have to do that.
02:28:55.000 You have to do it.
02:28:56.000 So I changed, and I was like fainting on them with powder, like, I'm going to smash you, like, do this, do that, and we put everything together.
02:29:09.000 Go in the water.
02:29:10.000 The water keep turning because in between stones, even though it was a beach, but the water there was very weird, like turning around, you know, and keep throwing us, keep throwing us.
02:29:24.000 I'm like, no, man, we are going this way.
02:29:27.000 Put in the third time.
02:29:29.000 We made it.
02:29:30.000 We start to move.
02:29:31.000 We get out of that place and keep going and we paddle.
02:29:38.000 From what I saw on the weather, the meteo, The rain is supposed to fall.
02:29:46.000 You said meteorologist report, is that what you're saying?
02:29:51.000 Yeah.
02:29:52.000 So, just more the weather or the waves?
02:29:57.000 No, the weather, the waves, everything, the wind, you know.
02:30:04.000 Right.
02:30:04.000 All the different things.
02:30:05.000 All the different things in the water.
02:30:07.000 Because I have to know the state of the water that I have to deal with.
02:30:11.000 Right, right, right.
02:30:11.000 So I found all that.
02:30:13.000 I had all those information.
02:30:16.000 I know exactly.
02:30:17.000 I even know that at 7.30, rain is going to fall.
02:30:22.000 You know?
02:30:24.000 So I'm like, okay, if we go at 5.30 to 6, it's going to be like one hour and a half.
02:30:32.000 We're going to be very far to be able to call the Red Cross.
02:30:38.000 Mm-hmm.
02:30:39.000 And we keep going, we keep paddling, paddling.
02:30:43.000 And after a few moments, I didn't realize how long was that.
02:30:50.000 And we saw this, we saw an helicopter flying on top of us.
02:30:58.000 And he was kind of like turning around.
02:31:00.000 I'm like, man, this helicopter, she just passed away.
02:31:06.000 Like, Staying here will alert people from both sides that something is happening under here.
02:31:14.000 They are looking for something.
02:31:16.000 So now this is the decision to take.
02:31:20.000 Either we call the Red Cross and use the helicopter to tell them exactly where we are or either the Moroccan who saw that And figure out there's something going on and come here.
02:31:36.000 Get here first.
02:31:38.000 So I'm like telling my guy, call the Red Cross.
02:31:42.000 Because the first thing when you call, where are you?
02:31:46.000 What are you seeing?
02:31:48.000 Give us something that we're going to...
02:31:52.000 We were just like, we are underneath the helicopter.
02:31:54.000 You see the helicopter?
02:31:55.000 Because we are sure that everywhere that you might be, you will see that helicopter.
02:32:00.000 I'm like, we are right underneath it.
02:32:04.000 And they was like, do you have a girl, a woman in the boat?
02:32:11.000 By the time my English was very bad.
02:32:14.000 I was speaking like a pigeon.
02:32:16.000 And I'm like, do you have a woman?
02:32:19.000 I'm like, what the hell do they have to do if we have a woman?
02:32:23.000 We are in danger.
02:32:24.000 But I didn't tell that to them.
02:32:26.000 I'm like, yeah, we have a woman.
02:32:28.000 We have even a child.
02:32:30.000 We have babies.
02:32:34.000 Why do you want to know if you're a woman?
02:32:36.000 Whatever you want me to say.
02:32:38.000 Just come and save us.
02:32:40.000 We are in danger.
02:32:42.000 And right just after we hung up, Like, the water really started to change.
02:32:52.000 That rain, it was like, it wasn't raining, but...
02:32:56.000 Starting.
02:32:57.000 Yeah, starting.
02:32:58.000 And the water was like, vroom, vroom.
02:33:01.000 We all regrouped in the mirror of the craft.
02:33:04.000 Like, it was very scary.
02:33:06.000 But we have to battle.
02:33:09.000 Because they said they are coming.
02:33:12.000 And after like few minutes, I saw something like, you know, the water was, we were floating, getting on top.
02:33:22.000 And I saw there were a boat, a lot of sheep in the water.
02:33:27.000 But I saw something red because their boat is red.
02:33:34.000 I'm like, that might be it.
02:33:36.000 I think that that's them.
02:33:38.000 But I can't tell my group because if I tell them and they get excited, I throw away their pattern and it's not them, we are done.
02:33:47.000 Right, right.
02:33:48.000 So, as captain, I have to keep them down.
02:33:52.000 I'm like, okay, maybe keep paddling.
02:33:56.000 I'm like, let's go, guys.
02:33:57.000 Let's go, let's go, let's go.
02:33:59.000 And at some point, somebody said, hey, I think I saw them.
02:34:03.000 I raised the paddle.
02:34:04.000 Shut the fuck up.
02:34:06.000 Like, it's not them.
02:34:08.000 Where do you saw them?
02:34:09.000 I'm like, I think.
02:34:10.000 You don't think.
02:34:11.000 Either you see them or you don't see them.
02:34:13.000 Because if you do this, and in excitement, they throw the paddle out.
02:34:18.000 We're fucked.
02:34:19.000 We're fucked.
02:34:21.000 You know.
02:34:22.000 Then, after like a few minutes, so everybody kind of like figured out something's going on.
02:34:29.000 Looking, looking, like they really say, Yes, there is.
02:34:34.000 It was clear that there was a Red Cross.
02:34:37.000 Man, I didn't care.
02:34:39.000 Some people threw the paddle as expected.
02:34:43.000 I remain the only one, the captain.
02:34:45.000 I was paddling by myself instead of somebody there.
02:34:50.000 Helping me for direction.
02:34:52.000 I was paddling like this to keep the boat, the direction, paddling back.
02:34:59.000 I just had some power right there.
02:35:03.000 It was crazy.
02:35:05.000 And they came and I was like, calm down, relax, calm down.
02:35:10.000 Everything's okay.
02:35:11.000 Calm down.
02:35:12.000 Because they don't want us to fall in the water.
02:35:14.000 Right, right.
02:35:15.000 Because sometimes with excitement, people get crazy and end up like maybe the boat flipped and get them in the water.
02:35:24.000 So what was it like when you got on the boat?
02:35:26.000 When you got on that Red Cross boat and you knew...
02:35:30.000 We were very excited.
02:35:32.000 We make sure everything that we get as a paper, passport, we let it in the water.
02:35:39.000 Because if you have something on you that says you're from Senegal, even though you're not from Senegal, you're getting deported from Senegal right away.
02:35:51.000 So you make sure you don't have any paper on you.
02:35:55.000 I was there, man, thinking, Then suddenly I realized he was April 3rd and I left Cameroon April 3rd, one year ago.
02:36:10.000 Wow.
02:36:13.000 One year anniversary.
02:36:14.000 One long journey.
02:36:16.000 Man, I felt like he was maybe 10, a decade.
02:36:20.000 But when I was in the Red Cross boat, that's when I realized it was just one year.
02:36:27.000 So what happens from the Red Cross picking you up?
02:36:29.000 Do they bring you to Paris?
02:36:30.000 No, no, no.
02:36:31.000 Where do they bring you?
02:36:32.000 No, they bring you right to the coast.
02:36:34.000 They call the police.
02:36:34.000 They're like, okay, we have people there.
02:36:37.000 It's not their duty.
02:36:38.000 They don't judge you.
02:36:39.000 They just want to save you.
02:36:40.000 They're saving you.
02:36:41.000 They bring you there.
02:36:43.000 They tell the police.
02:36:43.000 But they're bringing you to the Europe side.
02:36:45.000 Yeah.
02:36:45.000 Okay.
02:36:46.000 Since that is their base, their headquarters.
02:36:49.000 They bring you in that side.
02:36:51.000 What happens once you get over there?
02:36:52.000 Well, they give you to the police.
02:36:54.000 And the police start to question you.
02:36:55.000 They bring you to the police station.
02:36:57.000 And what do you have to tell the police?
02:36:58.000 Okay.
02:36:59.000 Or your story, your country, where you're from.
02:37:02.000 But before you get there, you know those country that has a...
02:37:06.000 They can deport you to...
02:37:08.000 Right.
02:37:08.000 A good relationship with France.
02:37:10.000 No, not like good relationship.
02:37:12.000 It doesn't have to be a good relationship.
02:37:14.000 They don't have an extradition.
02:37:15.000 Yes, some country doesn't have an extradition.
02:37:18.000 They don't sign that convention.
02:37:20.000 So what country did you say you're from?
02:37:23.000 Cameroon.
02:37:24.000 From all my trip, that was the first time I was like proudly...
02:37:29.000 Cameroonian.
02:37:29.000 Like, oh, I'm Cameroonian.
02:37:31.000 Oh, so it's okay because Cameroon and France, they have a relationship.
02:37:35.000 No, Cameroon and France.
02:37:36.000 We were in Spain.
02:37:38.000 But they don't have that extradition convention.
02:37:44.000 We don't sign that.
02:37:46.000 So that was a good thing for Cameroonian.
02:37:48.000 Those people, like...
02:37:50.000 Because in Algeria, we are all Malian and...
02:37:56.000 In Morocco, we are all from Senegal, even Guinea, Bissau, like West Africa, because a lot of West Africa country has a good relationship with Morocco, which is visa-free.
02:38:14.000 They don't need visa to go there.
02:38:16.000 They just get in the border, and maybe sometime.
02:38:18.000 So once you're in Spain, do they let you go?
02:38:20.000 Not yet.
02:38:21.000 Not yet?
02:38:22.000 Not yet.
02:38:23.000 This journey is not over yet.
02:38:25.000 It's not over.
02:38:26.000 The mental part of the journey is coming.
02:38:29.000 Oh, boy.
02:38:30.000 Because after that, they're kind of like, oh, we're bringing you to the court.
02:38:35.000 I mean, it's just a procedure.
02:38:37.000 Like, you don't even see the judge.
02:38:39.000 I'm like, oh, this is your lawyer.
02:38:44.000 How do you call that?
02:38:46.000 Lawyer?
02:38:46.000 Yeah, no, yeah.
02:38:47.000 You know, commit office, the one when you don't have money, the one that...
02:38:53.000 Defense attorney.
02:38:54.000 Yeah, I know what you're saying.
02:38:56.000 I know what you're saying, yeah.
02:38:58.000 Yeah, so since you can't afford lawyers, there are lawyers that they give you.
02:39:03.000 Yes, this year lower, lower, they come and like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and go away.
02:39:08.000 You don't even go to the courtroom.
02:39:10.000 You don't see the judge.
02:39:11.000 They bring you to this...
02:39:15.000 I mean, they call it like detention center or something, but man, this is like a harsh prison.
02:39:23.000 It's crazy.
02:39:24.000 They just want to break you down mentally.
02:39:27.000 Like at some point, you go crazy in there.
02:39:31.000 You're just like, okay, I think I was good being in the forest in Morocco.
02:39:36.000 At least I was free.
02:39:38.000 When you were in this place, they tell you when to go take a shower, when to eat, when to sleep, when to patio, this, that.
02:39:47.000 And everything is like this.
02:39:50.000 And you don't know what is your future.
02:39:52.000 You don't know if you're getting...
02:39:54.000 They're sending you back in your country.
02:39:56.000 You don't know if they're kind of like checking on your background guy and stuff.
02:40:04.000 Hey, guess what?
02:40:05.000 You don't even give them most information.
02:40:09.000 You lie on many things.
02:40:12.000 Like, why do they want to know?
02:40:15.000 Just free me.
02:40:16.000 That's it.
02:40:18.000 How long do they keep you there?
02:40:20.000 Almost two months.
02:40:21.000 Two months?
02:40:22.000 Yeah.
02:40:23.000 And what are they trying to get you to say?
02:40:25.000 Nothing.
02:40:26.000 Just keep you there.
02:40:28.000 You go crazy on your own.
02:40:30.000 You're like, piss off.
02:40:31.000 You want to get out of there.
02:40:33.000 You don't do anything.
02:40:34.000 I'm like, okay.
02:40:36.000 Are you guys going to teach us even some language every day?
02:40:41.000 Amigo, blah, blah, blah, blah.
02:40:43.000 You can even have a Spanish teacher there.
02:40:48.000 At least we get occupied.
02:40:50.000 Like something.
02:40:51.000 Something, man.
02:40:53.000 Nothing.
02:40:55.000 So why do they eventually let you go?
02:40:58.000 What?
02:41:00.000 They can deport you.
02:41:02.000 For some people, if they suspect that you're from some country who has an extradition, then they'll deport you.
02:41:11.000 They might bring somebody from your embassy to come and see, investigate to see if you're really from that country that you're saying If he recognizes you and if he recognizes, if he says yes, he's from my country, they will deport you.
02:41:32.000 So what is it like when they finally let you go?
02:41:37.000 Some association will come and text you and they offer you to stay there for a few days or for longer, for two weeks or for longer if you want, but you have to decide whether it's two weeks or if it's three months.
02:41:54.000 You have to choose right away.
02:41:56.000 But I wasn't going to do anything in Spain.
02:42:01.000 I just wanted to go.
02:42:03.000 So we stayed there after like two weeks.
02:42:10.000 Less than two weeks.
02:42:11.000 So I called in Cameroon again one more time.
02:42:17.000 Guess what?
02:42:18.000 I made it.
02:42:18.000 I need some money, but this is the last time.
02:42:22.000 I figured out something.
02:42:25.000 I need clothes to wear.
02:42:28.000 I need a cell phone.
02:42:30.000 And they sent me some money, like 300 bucks.
02:42:35.000 Yeah, 300 to 400. I buy myself some clothes, some cell phones and beginning of the trip.
02:42:45.000 And I wasn't going to France yet because I wanted to go to the UK, to England.
02:42:54.000 Because during my journey, my goal was always to get somewhere with the opportunity of boxing.
02:43:04.000 And England was like a big nation of boxing out of any country in Europe.
02:43:12.000 But to make it in England, it was a very...
02:43:18.000 I mean, you have to go through all this process because England is kind of...
02:43:23.000 they're kind of like taking themselves out of Europe.
02:43:26.000 So there is not a free circulation as in Europe.
02:43:30.000 From Spain to go to France, Italy, Germany, Brazil, it's easy.
02:43:35.000 There is no police control or anything.
02:43:37.000 But from there, anywhere else to go to England, oh...
02:43:42.000 It's difficult.
02:43:43.000 It's difficult.
02:43:44.000 Even as a French resident with your resident card, you still need to have a visa unless you're a French citizen.
02:43:57.000 Otherwise, you still need to have a visa to go to England.
02:44:01.000 So it was very complicated.
02:44:03.000 And now I'm like, man, I'm kind of tired of this back door, this service door entrance, you know.
02:44:13.000 And even if I go to England, at the end of the day, it's not done yet.
02:44:18.000 I don't know how long it's going to take me to get there.
02:44:22.000 And if I get in England, I still have to end up in the U.S., because that was the main goal.
02:44:29.000 The main goal was to get to the U.S.? Oh, yeah.
02:44:31.000 Wow.
02:44:32.000 Growing up, my dream was always to be in the U.S. Basically, I was so big, and all around, they were calling me American.
02:44:41.000 And I was like, yeah, I am.
02:44:44.000 You know, my signature, sometimes when I sign, people don't understand why.
02:44:52.000 It's SF. And I was like 10 years old, figured out my signature, and since there was a city in America, what I know is San Francisco, and people sometimes, as my name is Francis, would call me San Francisco.
02:45:11.000 I want to like change my name to put my name San Francisco.
02:45:14.000 Like that's even why I signed SF and it end up to be my official signature.
02:45:21.000 So my signature is SF. So when you write Francis Ngannou, you write SF? No.
02:45:27.000 No writing to sign.
02:45:29.000 To sign things.
02:45:30.000 A document.
02:45:31.000 So when someone wants you to sign a document, you don't sign Francis Ngannou.
02:45:34.000 No.
02:45:34.000 You sign SF. Yeah.
02:45:35.000 Wow.
02:45:36.000 It's kind of like special.
02:45:37.000 For you, it's important.
02:45:39.000 So tell me, what is it like the first time you walk into a gym in Paris?
02:45:45.000 Okay, so then since I couldn't go to England, I'm like, okay, I might go to Germany.
02:45:54.000 Even though there will be a language barrier, but boxing doesn't take that much.
02:46:02.000 It's kind of like showing part.
02:46:04.000 A few words, you're going to get that really quick.
02:46:07.000 For coaching.
02:46:08.000 Yes, coaching is not going to be very complicated.
02:46:11.000 So I was going to Germany.
02:46:14.000 But...
02:46:14.000 We were a group of people, most of the people in the group was just like France.
02:46:20.000 I'm like, okay, let's go to France first.
02:46:22.000 Then I went in France just by curiosity to see, but I never really want to go to France.
02:46:32.000 And I ended up in France and things started to put themselves together and I'm like, By the end of the day, it's not that bad.
02:46:43.000 I just wanted a place with opportunity, It plays with opportunity.
02:46:53.000 France seems to have that opportunity and he will help me to get in the US, in the main door instead of the service door as usual.
02:47:08.000 Because I went in France, I get in France like June 9th, 2013. We went, I was with some guy, I saw, I was with some guy, he has a friend who was in the, some community there, some Mali, from Malian community, and you're like, okay, I'm going there.
02:47:36.000 I don't know where I'm going, so I just follow them.
02:47:38.000 They jump on the, you know, this thing at the train station, how do you call it?
02:47:45.000 Turnstile.
02:47:46.000 Yes, at the turnstile.
02:47:48.000 We couldn't pay.
02:47:49.000 I jumped on it too.
02:47:51.000 We just keep going.
02:47:54.000 I followed them.
02:47:55.000 I followed them.
02:47:56.000 Then they went to this Malian community.
02:48:03.000 I saw the first time.
02:48:06.000 That was the first place that I saw in France.
02:48:09.000 Man, I was so desperate, disappointed.
02:48:14.000 You know, it was like two buildings, and somebody was, they were like, putting their clothes, drying their clothes on the window, and somebody was standing from this window, talking to somebody there, in Bambara, like, Abrigidi!
02:48:29.000 Abrigidi!
02:48:31.000 I'm like, my mind was blown out, like, man, so I almost died for you, this?
02:48:37.000 This is friends that they are talking about?
02:48:40.000 That was my first image of France.
02:48:43.000 Man, I'm like, I'm getting out of here.
02:48:48.000 I don't want to stay here because this kind of thing kind of like drown your energy.
02:48:55.000 You know, I don't want to stay around this place.
02:48:59.000 So I found the parking lot.
02:49:02.000 And the next day, I mean, a guy showed us a parking lot.
02:49:08.000 We found a Cameroonian guy who came there to eat.
02:49:11.000 And he said, I'm sleeping in some parking lot.
02:49:14.000 If you guys want, I'll show you where it is.
02:49:17.000 I'm like, hey, I really want that.
02:49:20.000 Like, I'm not staying here.
02:49:23.000 Because people was recommending, they recommend us to like call the French, that number is 115. So they have a place you can call to book for a night sleeping.
02:49:39.000 But it's like just a place to sleep.
02:49:43.000 There is like Hundreds of birds in the big house and you guys just go there.
02:49:49.000 All homeless people.
02:49:51.000 And I was homeless, but I had a very proud, like, no, like, I won't give up.
02:49:59.000 Like, you know, most of homeless people, they just give up and don't treat themselves, like, just treat themselves very bad.
02:50:08.000 I'm like, no.
02:50:10.000 Seeing this, all the time that I get around that, I feel like it's going to drive my energy, take out my energy.
02:50:21.000 I was so pumped out, expecting a world to come to me.
02:50:28.000 Exciting about everything.
02:50:30.000 That kind of environment wasn't meaningful for my dream.
02:50:35.000 So I'm like, no, I'd rather sleep on my place.
02:50:38.000 Even if it's not true, I'd rather keep...
02:50:43.000 live with my dream than just let...
02:50:46.000 And just live in a homeless shelter, right?
02:50:48.000 Yeah.
02:50:49.000 Right.
02:50:50.000 So how do you get to an MMA gym?
02:50:53.000 The next day, I found a boxing gym.
02:50:56.000 All day long, I was walking, asking, until I found a boxing gym.
02:51:03.000 It was about 4, and it was exactly a boxing time.
02:51:08.000 They gave me this sheet with prizes on it, everything.
02:51:13.000 I saw the prizes.
02:51:14.000 I'm like, damn.
02:51:15.000 They don't really know that I can afford this.
02:51:19.000 But I asked the lady in the front desk if I can see the coach.
02:51:23.000 And she told me the coach is not there, but there is a guy taking a class so I can meet the guy if I want.
02:51:36.000 Of course.
02:51:37.000 I met this...
02:51:38.000 Then after like 30 minutes, she brought me down.
02:51:42.000 She showed me to the guy and like...
02:51:44.000 The guy was DJ Camon.
02:51:46.000 The first guy that I met.
02:51:48.000 And I was telling him like...
02:51:50.000 Yeah.
02:51:51.000 I mean, I was just straight up like...
02:51:52.000 Listen, I just came here.
02:51:56.000 I don't have where to sleep.
02:51:58.000 I don't have nothing.
02:52:00.000 But, I mean, I'm not asking for something besides somewhere to train, besides an opportunity, because I'm going to become a world champion.
02:52:11.000 When you walk to the gym, you don't have nothing and you're saying that for people who have been there for years and years.
02:52:18.000 It looks like you're kind of looking at them like, oh, what are you guys be doing there?
02:52:25.000 You've been wasting your time.
02:52:27.000 But it was just me believing in myself.
02:52:30.000 But he was very receptive and showed a lot of compassion of my situation and I was even surprised before we left.
02:52:42.000 I was with some guy that I met down the way and he gave us like 50-50 euro.
02:52:52.000 I'm like, man, why did he give us money?
02:52:58.000 It was just so understandable of our situation.
02:53:03.000 And he said, I'm not a coach, but I'm going to talk to the main coach.
02:53:09.000 That was on Monday.
02:53:11.000 He said, I'm going to talk to them.
02:53:12.000 The next class is on Wednesday.
02:53:15.000 I'm going to talk to the main coach and see what he said.
02:53:20.000 What he says.
02:53:22.000 And if he says yes, I'll give you a call.
02:53:24.000 Do you have a cell phone number?
02:53:27.000 I'm like, of course.
02:53:28.000 Just give him my cell phone number.
02:53:31.000 And on Thursday he called me.
02:53:33.000 I'm like, yeah.
02:53:34.000 I spoke with the coach and everything's okay.
02:53:37.000 He said you can come to the next training, which is Saturday.
02:53:43.000 I went to that.
02:53:45.000 He said, yes, remember...
02:53:46.000 By the way, I have a glove.
02:53:49.000 A glove for you.
02:53:51.000 And let me know if you need anything.
02:53:54.000 The 50 euro that he gave me, I still had it.
02:53:58.000 And with some money that I still had it, I stopped in the box in some spa shop and bought like shorts, bags, one t-shirt.
02:54:11.000 And...
02:54:15.000 And that was it.
02:54:17.000 Couldn't even buy a mouthpiece, neither a hand wrap, nothing.
02:54:24.000 The morning was over.
02:54:28.000 Hey man, I went to the gym.
02:54:30.000 The Saturday was a sparring day.
02:54:32.000 He gave me gloves.
02:54:33.000 I didn't have a hand wrap, no mouthpiece, nothing.
02:54:37.000 Then I'm like, yeah, it's a sparring day.
02:54:40.000 I'm like, yeah.
02:54:41.000 Like, you don't have...
02:54:42.000 I'm like, no, yeah, I don't have.
02:54:44.000 But...
02:54:45.000 Let's go.
02:54:47.000 Hey, I didn't care.
02:54:48.000 You know?
02:54:50.000 He's crazy how by the time I was so excited.
02:54:53.000 Like, I didn't care.
02:54:55.000 Now when I forget my mouthpiece, I'd rather drive back because I care.
02:54:59.000 I'm like, okay, if I broke my teeth, I kind of like think about those things.
02:55:04.000 I'm very cautious now.
02:55:06.000 Like, okay, I'm a professional.
02:55:09.000 I'd be so excited just to be there.
02:55:11.000 I have something to lose now.
02:55:14.000 Maybe sometime I might have a fight coming up, waiting for a fight.
02:55:20.000 You haven't done any training at all in a long time, right?
02:55:24.000 What was it like to just get in there right away and spar?
02:55:27.000 Oh, I was so excited.
02:55:29.000 I was so pumped up.
02:55:31.000 Man, like, finally get a gym like that.
02:55:35.000 Man, that was crazy.
02:55:38.000 And after two weeks, he started to tell me, like, man, you have a good boxing.
02:55:43.000 You have a good...
02:55:44.000 Because he was a big guy, too.
02:55:46.000 And we sparred.
02:55:49.000 I'm like, you have a good boxing.
02:55:52.000 But, you know, with your situation, I think the thing we're going to help you the most will be MMA. You know, boxing business is kind of very complicated.
02:56:04.000 Hmm.
02:56:05.000 It's going to take time, you know.
02:56:07.000 But MMA, you can easily, pretty soon, start a fight and get 500 bucks or something.
02:56:15.000 And that will be very helpful seeing your situation.
02:56:20.000 And I'm like, what is MMA? Start to explain to me how it's martial arts.
02:56:27.000 Yeah, good.
02:56:28.000 MMA means mixed martial arts.
02:56:31.000 But what's that?
02:56:32.000 You know, it's that...
02:56:34.000 Yes, you know.
02:56:35.000 So you had never seen the UFC? You had never seen...
02:56:39.000 No.
02:56:39.000 I have seen it like a few times on TV, but didn't even stay there to watch.
02:56:46.000 I'm like, well, whatever, you know, just keep doing my thing.
02:56:52.000 Right.
02:56:52.000 Then he started to say, yes, he's in the cage and this.
02:56:54.000 I'm like, ah...
02:56:55.000 Yeah, I have saw that a few times.
02:56:58.000 Like, yes, if you do get some wrestling, just some good wrestling, a little bit of jujitsu base to get up.
02:57:06.000 Like, what is jujitsu?
02:57:09.000 That explains me everything.
02:57:10.000 I'm like, hey, man, please, leave me alone with your MMA. That's hilarious.
02:57:20.000 I want to do boxing.
02:57:22.000 But they offer you a fight for money.
02:57:24.000 But he was very, like, subtile.
02:57:28.000 So he wasn't rushed, wasn't pushing me.
02:57:31.000 Right, very subtle.
02:57:32.000 But, yes, all the time he knows when to put a word.
02:57:37.000 Like, I'm telling you, you should just try.
02:57:40.000 Give it a try, that's it.
02:57:42.000 I'm like, man, I want to do this straight boxing.
02:57:45.000 You know, boxing.
02:57:47.000 Like Mike Tyson.
02:57:49.000 You know, Mike Tyson, right?
02:57:50.000 Yeah, sure.
02:57:51.000 Exactly.
02:57:52.000 That's what I want to do.
02:57:54.000 And we keep training.
02:57:57.000 And he was very nice.
02:57:59.000 He wanted to help me to fit in.
02:58:05.000 So after training, most of the time, he was like, hey, guys.
02:58:09.000 Let's go to the bar.
02:58:10.000 Let's take a drink.
02:58:12.000 And he knows that most of the time in Paris, when a guy calls out for a drink, even though somebody calls out, make sure you have your money because everybody's going to pay.
02:58:25.000 And he will say, I get you all the time.
02:58:29.000 Sometimes he'll call out for dinner.
02:58:31.000 I'm like, oh, I get you.
02:58:32.000 Just to help me to be around people because he knows everything.
02:58:36.000 He knows that I'm sleeping in the parking lot.
02:58:39.000 And he was a big guy.
02:58:42.000 He gave me like clothes.
02:58:43.000 Hey, he gave me my first perfume.
02:58:46.000 Ralph Lauren.
02:58:50.000 I was homeless.
02:58:51.000 I have my backpack, but I have my pesume every time after training.
02:58:56.000 Take my shower really good.
02:58:59.000 Wear my clean clothes.
02:59:01.000 Put some...
02:59:02.000 So, how long before you got your first fight?
02:59:08.000 No, like, after that, like, after one or almost two months, that gym supposed to close for one month during the holiday, during the vacation.
02:59:25.000 And that's when, because I wasn't doing MMA there, like, he offered me to try, like, whatever.
02:59:33.000 But since at the daytime I didn't have time, I made this association at the street that they was, like, helping us, giving us, like, food.
02:59:44.000 Every Monday they come by and trying to give us whatever, like, These little things that you might need, like a mouthpiece or a mouthbrush.
02:59:56.000 I remember I had a sleeping bag, you know, the military sleeping bag.
03:00:01.000 Yes, they offered that.
03:00:03.000 They gave me that because the first time they were like, what can we do for you?
03:00:06.000 I'm like, it's pretty cold down there because it was by my parking lot.
03:00:12.000 It was underground parking lot.
03:00:15.000 I'm like, it's freezing!
03:00:16.000 So if you guys have some blankets, that might be very helpful.
03:00:22.000 They said, okay, next week we're going to see what we can do.
03:00:25.000 We're going to be here by this time.
03:00:28.000 By the same time, I'm like, okay.
03:00:29.000 So I came there the same.
03:00:31.000 So I kind of like have a routine of seeing them every week.
03:00:35.000 And...
03:00:38.000 Telling them how I'm bored.
03:00:39.000 I want to do something.
03:00:41.000 I'm like, we can't give you.
03:00:42.000 We don't have job for you.
03:00:44.000 But if we want to come to our place to help, cook, cut veggies, or do whatever you can do because we make food about 700 meals every day to go provide a gift to the homeless in north of Paris.
03:01:06.000 So if you can help for the daytime, if you have a time, every free hand is welcome.
03:01:12.000 Because as an association, we don't have enough money to pay people.
03:01:17.000 So we kind of like use most volunteers.
03:01:20.000 So if you want to volunteer, I'm like, Yeah, that's cool.
03:01:24.000 Then they set up a meeting with the manager.
03:01:29.000 We met.
03:01:31.000 We go through some stuff.
03:01:34.000 And I'm like, okay, you can come.
03:01:36.000 There's no rules.
03:01:37.000 Every time, every day that you have time and you want to stop by for two hours, one hour, help us to load stuff in the truck or to unload or to cut veggies, you know, or to...
03:01:51.000 Whatever you can help for, for how long you have, you're welcome.
03:01:58.000 So I started to go there.
03:02:00.000 I started to go there by the time.
03:02:03.000 So since the gym, the MMA factory was next to that association.
03:02:12.000 And...
03:02:16.000 But I never go to the MMA factory.
03:02:20.000 They were doing CrossFit in the first floor.
03:02:27.000 So what I see from that gym, it was kind of like CrossFit.
03:02:30.000 I didn't even know if they were doing like...
03:02:33.000 Stuff like boxing or MMA. And by the time it was an MMA factory, it was CrossFight, the name.
03:02:40.000 So which is close to CrossFit.
03:02:43.000 So I just thought it was a CrossFit gym.
03:02:45.000 But since my gym wanted to close, I'm like third.
03:02:52.000 Once I was with the manager of this association and I told him, like...
03:02:59.000 I think I'm going to see if this gym next door has a boxing, if they are doing boxing there.
03:03:08.000 So I'll keep training during this one month that my original gym is going to be closed.
03:03:15.000 He says, We have a good relationship.
03:03:21.000 We are good neighbors.
03:03:22.000 So I think he will be good if I play it for you.
03:03:27.000 I'm like, good idea.
03:03:28.000 That would be a very good thing.
03:03:32.000 And he went there.
03:03:33.000 He talked to this guy in the front desk.
03:03:35.000 He was Frank.
03:03:37.000 And the guy just came.
03:03:38.000 He was a nice guy.
03:03:40.000 He was a part owner of the gym at the time.
03:03:45.000 He was very nice.
03:03:46.000 He just came in.
03:03:47.000 I'm like, look at me.
03:03:48.000 I'm like, whoa!
03:03:50.000 Good baby.
03:03:52.000 We can do.
03:03:53.000 We would like to have this.
03:03:55.000 You know, like, Fernand would be happy to see him.
03:04:00.000 Yeah.
03:04:01.000 You can.
03:04:02.000 You're welcome, man.
03:04:03.000 Anytime that you want.
03:04:06.000 Yeah.
03:04:06.000 So you start training there?
03:04:08.000 Yeah.
03:04:08.000 And he said, but Fernand is the one taking care of combat sports, so I think you should meet him.
03:04:16.000 And yeah, he said, he's going to be here on Thursday.
03:04:22.000 He's usually here on Tuesday and Thursday, which is the main class.
03:04:27.000 And we were Tuesday.
03:04:30.000 So the next day was, we were Tuesday evening.
03:04:33.000 He was there already.
03:04:34.000 He has left already.
03:04:36.000 So the next day was Thursday.
03:04:37.000 I kind of like stopped by on Thursday and met Fena.
03:04:42.000 We talked.
03:04:42.000 And I kind of like tell him like how my friend Didier Carmon is always trying to tell me about MMA. And he was like, yes, your friend, he's right.
03:04:57.000 I'm like, yeah, but you do boxing too?
03:04:59.000 He said, yes, the boxing class is at this time, that time, that time.
03:05:04.000 Then I came there for the boxing time.
03:05:08.000 I'm like, yes, you should try MMA. We do MMA year two.
03:05:12.000 You can try it if you like it.
03:05:16.000 I mean, once I just come, he was just about to try, you know.
03:05:21.000 But I love all these fighting things.
03:05:24.000 I'm like, oh, it's cool.
03:05:25.000 It's fun.
03:05:26.000 So I kept coming just because it's fun.
03:05:29.000 But not because I want MMA. Like, when they keep talking about like, yeah, you should do this.
03:05:36.000 Yes, MMA. I'm like, hey, man.
03:05:38.000 You just wanted a box.
03:05:39.000 You just wanted a box.
03:05:40.000 I tried your MMA. Leave me alone.
03:05:44.000 You know?
03:05:45.000 I just want to do it for fun and that's it you know but and so by the time I was already like having a good relation with Didier Kamu but as he saw that I started to do MMA and that's exactly what what he wanted like He get at the point that he come to pay for a membership at this gym just to keep me
03:06:15.000 going.
03:06:16.000 And he knows that I want to be where he's at.
03:06:20.000 So sometimes he's going to call me very excited.
03:06:23.000 Hey, what's up, man?
03:06:24.000 How are you doing?
03:06:24.000 What are you doing today?
03:06:25.000 You're going to be at training today?
03:06:27.000 You're doing the MMA class today at the MMA factory?
03:06:30.000 I'm like, I don't know.
03:06:32.000 And then here I'm like, yes, I'm going to be there.
03:06:35.000 No, like, oh, cool.
03:06:36.000 Yes, I'll be there.
03:06:38.000 So, like, many times, he would stood me up.
03:06:42.000 He won't show up.
03:06:44.000 That's funny.
03:06:44.000 He just wanted to make sure that you went there.
03:06:45.000 He just wanted to keep me good.
03:06:47.000 Isn't it crazy when you think about that's how you got into MMA and now, in a month, you're about to fight for the heavyweight title?
03:06:54.000 Yeah.
03:06:55.000 For the second time.
03:06:56.000 Yeah.
03:06:56.000 And by the time, like, even Fernand was telling me, like, yeah, you should do it.
03:07:01.000 I think you should.
03:07:02.000 He was very excited about it.
03:07:04.000 And I'm like, nah.
03:07:08.000 I mean, if it wasn't about Didier Carmo, I would have left even that gym after, like, one month.
03:07:15.000 So how did they get you to sign up?
03:07:17.000 How did they get you to fight?
03:07:18.000 The first MMA fight.
03:07:20.000 So after, like, one month, like, Fernand just told me, like, Oh, there's a fight here in town.
03:07:30.000 This guy, they were like, you can fight there.
03:07:35.000 I'm like, well, since I'm doing this by curiosity, let's get the full experience out of my curiosity so I can truly tell how he feels.
03:07:45.000 I went there.
03:07:47.000 It was a tournament.
03:07:48.000 And I'm like, okay.
03:07:50.000 Let's get this.
03:07:51.000 One day tournament?
03:07:52.000 So multiple fights in a day?
03:07:55.000 Yeah, but...
03:07:56.000 No, it wasn't multiple fights.
03:07:59.000 It was like two weeks tournament.
03:08:01.000 Okay, so you fight and then you wait a while and then you fight again in a few weeks time?
03:08:05.000 Yeah, two weeks.
03:08:06.000 So I won my first fight.
03:08:10.000 Submission.
03:08:11.000 You won by submission?
03:08:12.000 Yeah.
03:08:13.000 What did you use?
03:08:14.000 I don't know.
03:08:15.000 There's not a name for that.
03:08:17.000 I don't know.
03:08:18.000 I just dropped the guy's hand.
03:08:19.000 I'm like, okay.
03:08:21.000 I'm broken this hand or you tap.
03:08:23.000 You just grabbed his hand?
03:08:25.000 Yeah.
03:08:25.000 I was on top of him.
03:08:27.000 I like turning.
03:08:28.000 I don't know how.
03:08:30.000 That's crazy.
03:08:31.000 I remember my...
03:08:32.000 Did you try to show someone how you did it?
03:08:34.000 Like, could you recreate it?
03:08:35.000 No, I didn't create it because my jujitsu coach named Christian Pumbu, which is a former light heavyweight belato champ.
03:08:46.000 So he's the guy that hurt me a lot on my ground game.
03:08:51.000 And he was right there.
03:08:52.000 He was telling me to do something.
03:08:53.000 This is it.
03:08:54.000 There you go.
03:08:55.000 That's my first submission.
03:08:57.000 I don't know what is that.
03:08:59.000 Let me see that again.
03:09:00.000 It's a shoulder lock.
03:09:02.000 Yeah, look.
03:09:03.000 You got him in a shoulder.
03:09:04.000 That's a legit move.
03:09:05.000 That's very legit.
03:09:06.000 So they taught you how to do this?
03:09:08.000 No.
03:09:09.000 He was coaching me.
03:09:10.000 That's very legit.
03:09:12.000 Christian Pumbu, he was sitting there.
03:09:15.000 And he was coaching me.
03:09:16.000 And he was telling me, like, put your foot like this.
03:09:18.000 I think I first put my foot in the wrong way.
03:09:21.000 But at the end, his shoulder gets blocked.
03:09:26.000 So he tapped.
03:09:28.000 So it was a submission.
03:09:29.000 That's a legit move.
03:09:30.000 That's very legit.
03:09:31.000 That was my first fight after three months and a half.
03:09:34.000 Is that your only submission?
03:09:36.000 No, no, no.
03:09:37.000 You have other submission moves?
03:09:38.000 I have four submissions.
03:09:41.000 Really?
03:09:41.000 Yeah.
03:09:42.000 Wow, that's interesting.
03:09:43.000 That's legit, man.
03:09:45.000 My first UFC, my first performance of the night in the UFC was a submission over Anthony Armit.
03:09:51.000 That's right, that's right.
03:09:52.000 In Albany.
03:09:53.000 What did you get him with?
03:09:55.000 Umbra.
03:09:56.000 No, no Umbra.
03:09:58.000 Kimura.
03:09:59.000 Kimura.
03:10:00.000 Okay.
03:10:01.000 So, he was taking my back, then I grab, I block his leg, take him down.
03:10:07.000 Is the Alistair Overeem KO, is that your most spectacular victory, you think?
03:10:15.000 Yeah.
03:10:16.000 That one was so crazy.
03:10:19.000 I remember when you hit him, I don't even know how I responded because you hit him so hard and he went flying back and stiffened up and I remember thinking, holy shit!
03:10:28.000 That was about as hard as I've ever seen anybody get hit from a punch in my life.
03:10:33.000 That was like a perfect punch.
03:10:37.000 Yes, he landed pretty well.
03:10:39.000 But the crazy thing is not just that you did it to him, but that you did it to, not that you landed that punch, but you landed it on one of the most decorated strikers ever in the sport.
03:10:49.000 Right there.
03:10:50.000 Boom.
03:10:50.000 I mean, he's one of the most decorated strikers ever.
03:10:53.000 I mean, K1 Grand Prix champion, Dream champion, Strikeforce champion.
03:10:58.000 I mean, Alistair.
03:11:00.000 That guy has insane amounts of experience.
03:11:04.000 For you to land, that kind of punch on him.
03:11:07.000 Leading to that fight, I was very relaxed.
03:11:14.000 Confident, but very relaxed.
03:11:17.000 Flow, just letting go.
03:11:21.000 He plays up really well.
03:11:24.000 When you went into the Stipe fight, the first Stipe fight, how did you expect the fight to end?
03:11:29.000 What did you think was going to happen?
03:11:31.000 I don't know.
03:11:33.000 We didn't know.
03:11:34.000 Yeah.
03:11:35.000 So, that fight was so...
03:11:38.000 All the way through that fight, nothing was right.
03:11:42.000 All the way in training?
03:11:43.000 Yeah.
03:11:44.000 Even how I approached the fight.
03:11:49.000 Because I remember I was in my hotel room like, okay.
03:11:54.000 If I win this fight, where am I going?
03:11:58.000 From Boston right now, where am I flying to?
03:12:01.000 In Vegas?
03:12:03.000 How?
03:12:05.000 There was a lot of empty spots in this and I had to go back in France like three weeks before the fight because I came here a few months ago and I didn't really Give a chance to work with somebody.
03:12:29.000 I was working with Dewey Cooper, which is my striking coach, but not an MMA coach.
03:12:39.000 So I was holding back to trust people.
03:12:42.000 I don't know if it was due to my experience or what, but it was really hard.
03:12:48.000 So when comes the moment when Mick Maynard called me after the Alistair fight and offered me a fight, Okay, what are you doing?
03:12:56.000 January 20th.
03:12:58.000 That's the title fight.
03:12:59.000 I want a title fight.
03:13:00.000 But this is like, what, six weeks ahead?
03:13:05.000 And I don't even have a camp.
03:13:07.000 My camp is friends.
03:13:09.000 I was I'm still staying in my camp, like in my mind, still holding on in my camp in France.
03:13:16.000 But there is the moment.
03:13:18.000 How can I do it?
03:13:20.000 I have to go back to France.
03:13:21.000 Did you train in France for the Alistair fight?
03:13:24.000 No.
03:13:24.000 No.
03:13:25.000 You trained in Vegas?
03:13:26.000 Yes, I trained in Vegas.
03:13:29.000 But it was easy because I had this fight like three months ahead.
03:13:35.000 So I was able to find a sparring partner and get Get them at the PI and train there.
03:13:49.000 Right.
03:13:50.000 But this one was like six.
03:13:52.000 I get to fight six weeks.
03:13:54.000 So you decided to go back to Paris to train?
03:13:55.000 I didn't even have a manager by the time, so I had to get things done by myself.
03:14:00.000 So you went back to Paris to train for Stipe?
03:14:03.000 Yeah.
03:14:04.000 Did you have good wrestlers to work with?
03:14:06.000 Yeah, I'm a good wrestler.
03:14:07.000 But he was just such a short period of time.
03:14:11.000 Because staying here, by the time my resident card was temporary, and he was just one year.
03:14:17.000 And he was due since month.
03:14:21.000 I have to go back to LA, apply for visa to go back to France, all these things.
03:14:27.000 Then, Fernand, by the time he couldn't come here because he has a business going on.
03:14:34.000 So he couldn't come here for months or stuff.
03:14:38.000 I have to go back in Paris.
03:14:40.000 And that's why I'm like, well, I should have something, like, right here.
03:14:46.000 Like, you know?
03:14:47.000 In America.
03:14:48.000 Yeah.
03:14:48.000 In case an opportunity show up, this kind of thing, I have to, like, right away get into.
03:14:55.000 Right.
03:14:55.000 You know?
03:14:56.000 I don't have to, need to travel in three weeks.
03:15:00.000 Right.
03:15:01.000 And, but there was a lot of things that I didn't know that I kind of, like, Figure out during the process, during the fight, how it plays out, how it works, you know.
03:15:13.000 Have you watched the fight since then?
03:15:16.000 No, really.
03:15:18.000 No?
03:15:18.000 Some highlights.
03:15:19.000 I don't like to watch that fight.
03:15:21.000 I have this fight in my mind.
03:15:25.000 Every step of the fight, I still have it in my mind.
03:15:29.000 I don't even need to watch it, to see it.
03:15:33.000 I know exactly what was happening, what was going on in my mind, what my corner was telling me.
03:15:40.000 I remember everything.
03:15:44.000 So, leading into the rematch, now you're training a Stream Couture.
03:15:50.000 Are you doing all your training there?
03:15:51.000 Yeah, yeah.
03:15:52.000 I train at the PI too, but just like strength and conditioning.
03:15:57.000 And who does your strength and conditioning there?
03:15:59.000 Kyle at the PI. Okay, and so have they been working with you for a while to prepare for this?
03:16:05.000 Yeah.
03:16:06.000 Because you're leaner now than you were before, right?
03:16:08.000 You were heavier at one point in time?
03:16:09.000 I'm getting...
03:16:10.000 I was heavier leading to that fight than I was maybe in Alistair's fight, but I'm still heavier now than I was back then.
03:16:22.000 Just from all the strength and conditioning work?
03:16:24.000 I don't know.
03:16:25.000 What do you weigh now?
03:16:26.000 Right now?
03:16:27.000 Yeah.
03:16:28.000 275. 275. Well, that's not too bad.
03:16:31.000 Isn't it weird that the heavyweight division has a weight limit?
03:16:33.000 It's kind of strange.
03:16:34.000 It's heavyweight.
03:16:35.000 Like, why do you have to cut weight for heavyweight?
03:16:38.000 It's weird, right?
03:16:40.000 I mean, heavyweight should be as big as you are.
03:16:43.000 That's what heavyweight's supposed to be.
03:16:45.000 Oh, guess what?
03:16:46.000 It keeps you professional.
03:16:47.000 Yeah, I guess it keeps you professional.
03:16:48.000 In boxing, they don't have weight limit.
03:16:50.000 No, but that's what doesn't make any sense to me.
03:16:52.000 I never understood the 265-pound weight limit.
03:16:55.000 Where?
03:16:55.000 Because I remember when Tim Sylvia was a heavyweight champ, there was a couple times where he didn't make weight, or at least one time, that he didn't make weight the first time, and he had to go back and cut weight.
03:17:04.000 I'm like, this is strange.
03:17:06.000 For heavyweight.
03:17:06.000 For heavyweight, it doesn't make any sense.
03:17:08.000 That means there's a supposed weight class after that.
03:17:14.000 Yeah, but no one's ever fought in the UFC. I don't even remember what it's called.
03:17:18.000 Super heavyweight.
03:17:19.000 Super heavyweight?
03:17:20.000 Is that what they call it?
03:17:21.000 Yeah.
03:17:21.000 It's just ridiculous.
03:17:23.000 But the point is, so you're basically around the same size.
03:17:27.000 But you got a little leaner after that fight though, right?
03:17:30.000 Yeah.
03:17:31.000 Oh, leading to the next fight, I get very leaner.
03:17:35.000 I was, I remember, I weigh into my fight against Lewis.
03:17:40.000 I was like 250, 253. Yeah.
03:17:44.000 Now, was that in response to the first fight with Stipe?
03:17:48.000 Yeah.
03:17:49.000 Like, my fight against Lewis never really happened.
03:17:53.000 It was just...
03:17:54.000 Derek Lewis.
03:17:55.000 Yes.
03:17:56.000 Again, Derek Lewis didn't even happen because...
03:18:00.000 Everything there was just...
03:18:02.000 I was there for Stipe.
03:18:03.000 He was there to just correct everything that I should have done.
03:18:09.000 When you say the fight never happened, do you feel like you just weren't there for that fight?
03:18:12.000 No, I wasn't there.
03:18:13.000 Yeah.
03:18:14.000 Like...
03:18:15.000 I wasn't there.
03:18:16.000 You made a correction after that, though.
03:18:17.000 Like, for that fight, you were very tentative.
03:18:20.000 You didn't do much.
03:18:21.000 Both of you didn't do much.
03:18:23.000 Because, like, you know, for the steeper fight, I think I rushed, basically, for the first round.
03:18:30.000 And now I'm like...
03:18:31.000 I was there like, damn, I had five rounds.
03:18:35.000 Why should I, like, rush?
03:18:37.000 And then run out of gas.
03:18:38.000 Run out of gas.
03:18:39.000 Like, I should have, like...
03:18:41.000 And look in that fight...
03:18:44.000 I mean, I watch that fight.
03:18:46.000 I see the guy look like me, but I don't recognize myself because it's not the way that I fight.
03:18:51.000 I look back to other fights.
03:18:53.000 It's not the way he looks like he's two different person.
03:18:56.000 It's not the way that I used to fight.
03:18:58.000 You know, I kind of like come, approach the fight, let myself get into fight.
03:19:04.000 And if there's an opportunity, like most of the time my opponent will be even the first to attack.
03:19:12.000 You know, because I'm there.
03:19:13.000 But this one, I just like rushing there.
03:19:16.000 So I'm like, I should have calmed down.
03:19:20.000 I should.
03:19:22.000 And I keep telling, repeating my mind, like, calm, calm, calm.
03:19:25.000 So I was in the fight with Lewis, and I was just like...
03:19:29.000 Take your time.
03:19:30.000 Calm down.
03:19:31.000 Don't rush.
03:19:32.000 Calm down.
03:19:33.000 Hey, guess what?
03:19:34.000 I was even surprised when the referee after the end of the fight.
03:19:39.000 I thought it was maybe the second round or something.
03:19:42.000 Really?
03:19:42.000 Oh, yeah.
03:19:43.000 I was surprised that that was the third round.
03:19:46.000 I was like, calm down, Francis.
03:19:48.000 Calm down.
03:19:48.000 So you were still dealing with the steepest fight?
03:19:50.000 I was still dealing with the steepest fight, like telling myself, Don't rush.
03:19:55.000 Calm down.
03:19:56.000 It doesn't take much.
03:19:58.000 You're going to get this.
03:19:59.000 The fight after that was Stipe?
03:20:01.000 Excuse me.
03:20:01.000 The fight after that was Junior Dos Santos?
03:20:03.000 No, Curtis Blades.
03:20:04.000 Curtis Blades.
03:20:04.000 Yeah.
03:20:05.000 Curtis Blades and then Junior Dos Santos.
03:20:07.000 No, Curtis Blades, Cain Velasquez.
03:20:10.000 Cain?
03:20:10.000 Oh, Cain.
03:20:11.000 That's right.
03:20:11.000 Cain was in between.
03:20:12.000 Yeah.
03:20:12.000 Okay.
03:20:13.000 So you got back on track with Curtis Blades.
03:20:15.000 You stopped Curtis Blades.
03:20:16.000 Yeah.
03:20:16.000 You stopped Cain Velasquez.
03:20:18.000 You stopped Junior Dos Santos.
03:20:20.000 Now you're back on track.
03:20:21.000 Yeah.
03:20:22.000 And then Jarzino Rosenstreich.
03:20:23.000 That's the next fight afterwards.
03:20:25.000 So you're knocking everybody out again.
03:20:26.000 And you look exactly like the same, but an improved version of Francis Ngannou.
03:20:32.000 The improved version of you as you were making your run up to the title.
03:20:36.000 Oh yeah, a different franchise from that.
03:20:39.000 The same physique, but a different fighter from that.
03:20:45.000 Now when I don't have a fight, I kind of just work on my wrestling.
03:20:52.000 I used to work on my wrestling, but now I kind of put a point on my wrestling and stuff when I don't have a fight.
03:21:04.000 I don't strike much when I'm not fighting, you know?
03:21:08.000 Just try to work on the things you need to work on.
03:21:10.000 Yeah, try to work on different things.
03:21:12.000 I've been, like, the past few months, just before his fight, I've been working with Roni before he fought at the Bellator.
03:21:21.000 And because he has a very good ground game, we do jujitsu, wrestling with many guys at the stream.
03:21:31.000 We have some big body guys there.
03:21:34.000 Such as Kyle.
03:21:36.000 Well, it's a great gym.
03:21:38.000 You know what I mean?
03:21:38.000 It's a great gym.
03:21:39.000 Extreme Couture is one of the best gyms in the world, for sure.
03:21:42.000 Yeah, and on top of that, I mean, like, from my standing point, I never really, like, go for the best gym.
03:21:53.000 Like, what matters for me is people that I'm dealing with.
03:21:58.000 You know, the kind of people if I feel like, okay, I can deal with these people.
03:22:04.000 They are good people.
03:22:05.000 That's matter for me more than the actual gym.
03:22:09.000 And at Extreme Kuti, I kind of like find out that, found that, you know, people were just there.
03:22:16.000 I mean, I remember like Eric was, Eric Nixik, which is now my coach.
03:22:21.000 He was like all the time, like, Yes, man.
03:22:24.000 Anytime you need me, call me.
03:22:26.000 And then I'm like, yeah, this might just be some coach, 1A fighter.
03:22:30.000 You know, then I can't, with time, I kind of like know the guy, know the person.
03:22:37.000 I'm like, this is a great guy.
03:22:39.000 I would like to- So you develop a good relationship with him.
03:22:41.000 Yes, we develop a good relationship.
03:22:43.000 I say our life, I can deal with this guy.
03:22:47.000 That's great.
03:22:48.000 When did you start letting people hit you?
03:22:50.000 When did you start letting people hit you in the stomach?
03:22:52.000 When did all that start?
03:22:53.000 Oh, always.
03:22:55.000 There's so many videos of fighters hauling off and punching you in the stomach like you're standing there flexing.
03:23:01.000 He used to be on my chest.
03:23:04.000 Growing up, I used to have my little brother come and hit me on the chest and everything.
03:23:11.000 I always like toughness.
03:23:13.000 Like, ah, I'm the man.
03:23:14.000 That's why I always think that if I would have grew up in the U.S. Look at this.
03:23:23.000 There's there's so many videos the guys hitting you in the stomach That's gotta be very disappointing for him *laughter* Just have a dude stand there and take your best shot right in the stomach.
03:23:40.000 Now, you have this amazing opportunity right now to fight for the title again, but for the longest time it seemed like that wasn't going to happen.
03:23:50.000 I mean, you had to wait so long to get another shot at the title.
03:23:54.000 I know it's going to happen.
03:23:56.000 It was frustrating.
03:23:58.000 The waiting time, all those things, uncertain.
03:24:02.000 But I know it's going to happen.
03:24:04.000 Guess what?
03:24:04.000 There's only thing we will make it happen.
03:24:07.000 Get your ass, work your ass, the gym, work, get out there, win the fight.
03:24:13.000 You're going to get the title shot.
03:24:16.000 At some point, it's not obvious.
03:24:20.000 It's not like, okay, it's going to happen after a certain fight, but at some point, it's going to happen, which is the good thing.
03:24:29.000 Technically, he comes with your result.
03:24:33.000 He relies on what you do.
03:24:39.000 Technically, you are the one calling the shot.
03:24:43.000 What do you think is different with you between the Francis from the first fight and you now?
03:24:51.000 Everything is different.
03:24:54.000 I surround myself.
03:24:56.000 I have a great team.
03:24:59.000 I had a good team before.
03:25:01.000 Now I have a team that we have built a relationship and they are always around.
03:25:07.000 I have to fight in six weeks.
03:25:11.000 We have been working on this for so long.
03:25:14.000 Even before my previous fight, we have been working on this fight.
03:25:17.000 And I have people around just ready to do everything that has to be done for the fight.
03:25:26.000 Like Eric, he just let his family, not to mention that he came back home not long ago after like three weeks, two or three weeks in Abu Dhabi, leaving his wife and his three kids.
03:25:39.000 But as soon as I'm like, okay, we are going to Austin, where I'm like, okay, we don't have to take a day off.
03:25:49.000 We have to be together to keep training.
03:25:53.000 And this is the thing that for the first fight, I was doing the media tour for two days, no training and that stuff.
03:26:01.000 Because I was just by myself.
03:26:04.000 The team wasn't built.
03:26:06.000 You know, so we just came, Eric just came and made all this travel just in order of helping me stay in train while I'm here.
03:26:17.000 Well, Francis, I'm very excited for the fight.
03:26:19.000 I can't wait.
03:26:20.000 And I really appreciate you coming here.
03:26:23.000 It was really great to talk to you.
03:26:24.000 And your story is incredible.
03:26:25.000 It's incredible.
03:26:26.000 Thank you, Joe.
03:26:26.000 Thank you for having me.
03:26:27.000 My pleasure.
03:26:28.000 For the most famous podcast in the world.
03:26:31.000 It was my pleasure.
03:26:32.000 And I mean, I think you're an incredible person.
03:26:35.000 What you've done is amazing.
03:26:36.000 Your journey leaving Cameroon and making it to where you are right now about to fight for the heavyweight title for the second time.
03:26:43.000 It's just, it's an amazing, inspirational story.
03:26:46.000 It really is.
03:26:47.000 Thank you.
03:26:49.000 But there's some part of that journey that I cannot recommend, though.
03:26:52.000 I think I was too crazy to do some dumb shit, but when I go back in Cameroon, some people would ask me, how do you make it in France?
03:27:04.000 I'm like, hey man, figure it on your own.
03:27:06.000 I'm not going to tell you.
03:27:08.000 Not because I don't want you to make it, but because I don't want you to go through what I've been through and I know exactly what it is like.
03:27:19.000 And I was very lucky to get out there alive.
03:27:22.000 In the past six months, I know three people from my village who have died in Morocco.
03:27:30.000 in the past three months trying to escape yeah two of them died in the water and one just gets sick and died recently it's like my friend little brother and that's so sad and I can like keep I can't be thinking that I have something to do with it.
03:27:53.000 Most of them just want to follow my path.
03:27:58.000 I'm like, that's not a good way to follow.
03:28:02.000 I don't recommend that to nobody to go to that road.
03:28:06.000 It's a hell.
03:28:08.000 It's a matter of luck.
03:28:11.000 We all have luck, but sometimes he plays differently in a different ground.
03:28:20.000 As soon as I get back out there, I tell my family, hey, please, guess what?
03:28:25.000 Just stay back there.
03:28:26.000 I don't want somebody to give me heart attack.
03:28:28.000 So if I go out there and I will hustle for us, if things work pretty well, I'm going to go back there, build maybe a company, get you guys a job.
03:28:40.000 You're going to build something good for the family.
03:28:43.000 So you're going to be able to even apply for a visa.
03:28:46.000 Just go visit those countries, Europe or US. Just don't take the path you took.
03:28:52.000 You don't even need to go there and stay there.
03:28:54.000 It's a nightmare.
03:28:54.000 You're going to have a cultural barrier.
03:28:56.000 You're going to have all these things.
03:28:58.000 You have to struggle.
03:28:59.000 You don't need that anymore.
03:29:01.000 Just, please, stay home.
03:29:03.000 You know, like, I always, like, remind them, like, please, hold on.
03:29:08.000 If things change for me, it's going to change for us, for all of us.
03:29:12.000 I have to take the risk for all of us.
03:29:14.000 So, never been there.
03:29:17.000 That's beautiful that you have that intention.
03:29:19.000 That's why I committed to a foundation in Cameroon, which is like a...
03:29:28.000 There it is.
03:29:29.000 No, not this one.
03:29:30.000 This is a different one?
03:29:31.000 You have more than one foundation?
03:29:33.000 No, this is my foundation.
03:29:34.000 Yes.
03:29:34.000 Oh, you committed to a different foundation.
03:29:36.000 I committed to a foundation that's been helping people from Morocco who want to go back, who are tired and want to go back to their country.
03:29:47.000 You know, to help get the youth, put them aware of the risk and tell them, please, don't do it.
03:29:57.000 I know you're going to...
03:29:58.000 I'm not the best example because I did it, but that doesn't mean it's good.
03:30:04.000 That doesn't take away the risk.
03:30:05.000 And it's getting harder and harder, and it's your life that you're putting on the line.
03:30:13.000 That's the part that I can recommend to somebody.
03:30:16.000 But the rest, dreaming, trying, yeah.
03:30:19.000 Well, your story is incredible, Francis.
03:30:21.000 And the title fight is March...
03:30:23.000 What's the date?
03:30:24.000 27th.
03:30:24.000 March 27th.
03:30:25.000 I can't wait.
03:30:26.000 I can't wait.
03:30:27.000 Good luck to you, sir.
03:30:29.000 Thank you very much.
03:30:29.000 I hope you're gonna call that fight.
03:30:30.000 Oh, I hope so too, man.
03:30:31.000 I think I will be.
03:30:32.000 Thank you.
03:30:33.000 Always a pleasure, Joe.
03:30:34.000 My pleasure.
03:30:35.000 Thank you very much.
03:30:35.000 Thank you very much.