6 years in jail for offering women alternatives to abortion... and I'd do it again
Summary
Mary Wagner is a hero in the pro-life movement in Canada. She goes into abortion mills to speak to women waiting in the waiting room and offers them the choice for life in the most loving way possible. She has spent six years in jail for doing this. Her case has now been taken to the Supreme Court of Canada and will be heard by a judge.
Transcript
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This is John Henry Weston for LifeSite News, and I am going to bring you an incredible
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interview with Mary Wagner, that great Canadian hero for life, the one who actually goes into
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abortion mills to speak to women as they're waiting there in the waiting room, offers
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them help, the choice for life in the most loving way possible.
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Mary Wagner, thank you for joining us on this episode of the John Henry Weston Show.
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Let's begin as we always do with the sign of the cross, in the name of the Father,
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It is a great pleasure for me to speak with you, Mary.
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You are an inspiration to so many people in the pro-life movement.
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We're here to talk today about what's going on with your case in Canada, because there's
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something truly historic that's going to happen now, or please God will happen now.
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Your case has been asked to go forward to the Supreme Court.
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Your lawyer is taking this forward and appealed to the Supreme Court to take on this case, a
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charter challenge for the pro-life issue, a charter challenge for the right to life of
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We filed the leave for application to the Supreme Court just earlier this month, and we await
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now the Crown's response, which is to be submitted within 30 days of our application file, and
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then we have another 10 days to respond, and then it's in the hands of the Supreme Court
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to make a decision whether they will grant leave for appeal.
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So, your prayer is really very much appreciated at this time.
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So, what's going to happen here is a court case that is going to be a charter challenge,
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a challenge to the Charter of Canada, which actually says something very strange.
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I'm going to pull up here quickly so that we can all see it.
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It's to deal with the charter that deals with Section 223, which says this in the most bizarre
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language, it says, the child becomes a human being within the meaning of the act when it
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has completely proceeded from, in a living state, from the body of its mother.
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That's absolutely against all science, against medical science, biology, whatever you wish,
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but that's the charter in Canada and the challenge that we're going forward with now.
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We need prayers for this to be taken up at the Supreme Court level.
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And Gwen Landolt, a lawyer in Canada who's pro-life, who has gone before the Supreme Court
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already, has told us that this will be taken up by one of the judges of the Supreme Court
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So, tell us if you could, what are your hopes for this?
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Well, certainly our hopes ultimately would be that the highest court would recognize the
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injustice of Section 223, which declares that a child, acknowledges the child, that before
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birth, there is a child there, but is not considered a human being contrary to common sense,
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And we will hope that that will be reversed ultimately, so that protection right to life
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will be there, recognized from the moment of conception once again.
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However, even if this court does not decide in favor of the truth, in favor of justice for
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our littlest brothers and sisters, I think that this case is really important because it
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will present the highest court of the land with the truth.
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And if the court decides against our case, then it's clearly exposed the hypocrisy and
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the grave injustice is exposed for many, because I believe that this case will garner international
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Many people in the world are not aware of Canada's complete disregard from the moment of conception
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So, I think that either way, how the decision is made, that it will be a victory, but in
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So, your story is a very interesting one, and we want to get into that a little bit.
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So, you go inside the abortion mills to give women the option for life, to peacefully present
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So, tell us, if you could, what brings you, what motivates you to do this kind of thing?
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Well, anyone who recognizes that the child before birth is a human being has to ask them
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How can we speak for them in a country in which we're prosecuted for trying to advocate
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And I guess I began asking those questions even as a child, well, probably as a teenager.
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And I was very touched by the nonviolent Operation Rescue movements.
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I was just in my young teens at that time when it was at the height of it.
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But it was always something there that if we care about the children being aborted, that
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we care about those who are imminently in danger.
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And so, my heart was always moved to where it's happening, when it's happening.
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I think that it's too long of a story to share here.
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But my heart was touched by God's grace in many ways.
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But I think over time, as I grew spiritually as a young adult, I realized in the light,
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in really walking in the light of Mother Teresa, the distinction between caring about an issue
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And ultimately, Christ is that person, is our neighbor.
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So, he led me to the abortion places, which I had been to before.
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But without, he led me to a place where I was able to see, our love for them doesn't
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stop where the law says, where the arbitrary law says that we cannot reach out to them.
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And the question of presence for our neighbor in need is so important, even more important
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And Our Lady really is the model for all of us as the compassion in standing at the foot
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So, he touched my heart to see, well, you can go to these places and be there present prayerfully
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and hopefully, in some ways, a conduit for his mercy, his love.
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And it's really in a spirit of poverty, independence on him, hoping that God will intervene where
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even human words are not able to, really walking into a very impossible, humanly impossible situation
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and remaining there with the mother and child until either they walk out, which has happened
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and is always the hope, or until physically it's no longer possible because the police ultimately
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You spoke of Mother Teresa and her recognizing Christ in others.
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You recognize Christ in the mother and the child.
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And so, you have sort of two clients or people whom you're trying to reach, if you will, as
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And you actually walk into the abortion mills and as they're waiting there, waiting in the
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abortion mill, the mother's waiting, you present them for, can you describe, in fact, what you
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So, I began taking roses with me to offer to the mothers, just as a sign of love to, and
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often we would attach miraculous medals or little messages where, important messages where they
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could be encouraged to recognize their child, recognize as well, equally the support that's
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And so, they were offered these roses and then hopefully that would initiate as well opportunity
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to talk with them and to see really what is it that's leading them there?
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So, I guess one of the things that most people know is that you are a very peaceful person,
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a very loving person, nothing violent about you, but what are some of the words you might
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Well, I try to go in there really asking the Holy Spirit to say, help me say what needs to
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be said, because I know that each woman is unique and what she might need to hear is going
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So, I think I would probably start with something general, like we're here to help you and your
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And then if there's any kind of response on her end, then depending on how she would respond,
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Sometimes if there's no response, it would be trying to at least let them know by question,
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do you realize that your child's heart is beating already by this time if you know that
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you're pregnant, something to try to, do you know what kind of help that there is?
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We will help you with anything that you need right now.
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So, really trying to just let them know the help that is out there.
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But again, it varies depending on the response that we'd receive.
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We have buffer zones around abortion mills in Canada where we're not able to enter into
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them, you go actually right into the abortion center itself.
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And so, what happens, even though you're just trying to help and do so peacefully, you've
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We have video clips of you being dragged out of these places and thrown into the back of
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That must have been very scary when it happened.
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Well, actually, the very first time that I was at a killing place and was inside was
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And I was with my friend, Sissy Von Dean in Vancouver.
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But the police officers believed the abortion staff who said that she was not allowed to
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So, it always helps when you have a friend at your side.
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So, the very first time, it was a blessing to have a partner in crime.
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And subsequently, after that first time, it became easier to...
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The process of being arrested, really, it's, at the moment, it's difficult because you have
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your concern for the mother and the child, which is preeminent.
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But you've also then got to deal with the police who are coming.
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Once I'm taken away, it's more just like a time to enter into prayer.
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The police have been pretty good as far as being not physically aggressive for the most
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And so, that part itself is not the same weight on the heart as obviously being right
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in the center where the killing is happening or is about to happen.
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Tell me, do you believe there's a specific call to do this kind of a thing?
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I would say that for myself, he poured out graces upon me.
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After praying for a friend who I learned was involved in some medical research involving
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And the source of which was questionable, he wasn't sure if they were aborted babies or
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He didn't know and he did not want to find out.
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And in prayer, it was like God lifted the veil for me.
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And I had seen pictures before, but I had never wanted to see the videos that are out
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And that was definitely a very compelling moment.
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It was really a point of complete shift for me in my walk with God.
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So our Lord says, whatever you did to the least of these, you did to me.
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And you've spent, what, somewhere around years, in fact, in prison for attending to him.
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I haven't kept track that clearly, but it's been between five and six years.
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Well, there was a period in my mid-20s for about three years.
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And I had, I received short prison sentences, maximum, I think the total, in total for those
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And then since 2010 has been the bulk of the time of incarceration.
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I moved to Ontario in 2010 because Linda Gibbons had been in custody already for two years,
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I think, on a maximum six-month sentence charge.
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And she herself has spent about 11 years, a great-grandmother.
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She's not currently in custody, but she had been a real light for me as far as persevering.
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Linda Gibbons, great pro-life warrior, has been a great inspiration to so many of us.
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She actually also in jail, as you said, for 11 years, but she did a different thing.
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And on her sign was, I believe it was, why mom or something like that.
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Yeah, it was a, it was a, sorry, it was a drawing of a child, a small child.
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And with a tear running down her face and the caption, why mom, when I have so much love
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And Linda would be there as a silent presence with that sign, which was deemed illegal.
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Yes, we have these buffer zones around abortion mills in Canada.
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We're unable to go within a certain area, and otherwise it's illegal.
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And also, she saved probably countless lives, got arrested, spent years in jail as well.
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And for me, I think it's a, it's a great thing to be able to go to our Lord who said, you
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know, whatever you do for the least of these, you do to me.
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And imagine at the end of her life, which, you know, is, is going to come likely before
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yours because she's older, but she's able to go to our Lord and, uh, there he can, you
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know, how he's going to say, whatever you did to the least of these, you did for me.
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We'll hear things like, you know, you saw me being threatened in my mother's womb in that
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And you came forward to protect and defend me despite the threat to your own freedom for
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I think it's important to remember, I mentioned mother Teresa, but, um, she took the name
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of Teresa after St. Therese of Lisieux, who reminds us that it's not, um, great works,
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She didn't put it like that, but what, what, um, God looks at is the love, the quality of
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love that we put into even the most seemingly insignificant things.
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So I think we have to be careful because, um, St. Paul says, even if I offer my body to be,
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to be burned, if I don't have love, then there's nothing there really.
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So tell me, how do you engender that love, that pure love, that not self-seeking love,
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a kind of love that, um, doesn't look to selfish goals.
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I don't want to be popular for doing this or, or draw any attention to myself.
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Basically I'm doing this out of the love for Christ, but yet he puts me in these situations
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Well, I, I think the awareness of what's essential, um, was a great grace that I received through
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time that I spent in a monastery and contemplative life.
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Um, just, just sort of unplugging, first of all, uh, God is a God of silence and he meets
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And, um, so in our very busy, hectic world, it's hard to see that as a priority sometimes,
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So I think not that I'm any example of what you're speaking of, but I just know that he
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Um, or at least, you know, he, he, he put me in the, in the position where I was ready
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to receive, um, more capable of receiving just because of, um, the graces of the life
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So, uh, I try to keep that because it's not easy to, to, um, remain, uh, remain in that
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So speaking of the world, funny enough, um, you've been to all sorts of places in the
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world, but at LifeSite, we get asked a lot about you from Poland.
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I have to ask Poland, but, um, we know that even though the recent uprisings might lead
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people to think otherwise, that, um, poll, the Polish people having suffered so much under
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the communist regime and having relied so much on Christ and on the gospel, um, which
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Um, I think initially the Polish people had looked at Canada as an example of a state that
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And, um, there was a, there was an email, not an email, an article that circulated about five
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years ago after a judge said to me in court, if you think that you can do that, do what
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you're doing, then you are wrong and your God is wrong.
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And I had been receiving a steady flow of mail up until that point.
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But after that article went viral, um, I received a lot of mail coming from Poland.
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So I think that those were kind of the steps that were, that led to this support, this great
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It was an incredible thing that even in the, you know, the courts and judges and people
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who say things, they sometimes will voice certain things that really exemplify where
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And that particular statement, your God is wrong was a real lightning rod.
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It gave us a clarity that, that this is an anti-God, an anti-Christ kind of movement, the
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And it was so very clear in the words of that judge that it really did spark a lot of interest
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Well, really prayer is the most important because we don't know how God is going to
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take this case, but just if people would like to join all of us who are already praying
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for, for this case and for Dr. Lugosi, who's, who's representing our brothers and sisters,
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Um, also he has to be paid and that's a reality too.
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So if people would like to donate and for those who have, some have made incredible sacrifices,
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whether by offering the widow's might or by offering large sums of money.
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Um, I just want to say thank you to everyone who has already contributed and, um, and open
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If anybody would like to, to contribute, please know that it's, it's a fight worth fighting,
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even if the victory is not as we would ultimately hope there would still be a victory.
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Mary Wagner, thank you so very much for being with us on this episode of the John Henry
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And thank you for the good work that you're doing.
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I'd like to invite you to subscribe to the John Henry Weston show YouTube channel.
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If you haven't already done so there, you will find all the past episodes and much more.
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Thanks again for watching and may God bless you.