Abby Johnson explains why she attends Latin Mass and receives Communion on the tongue
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Summary
Abby Johnson is a hero in the pro-life movement. She is the author of Unplanned, Unplanned: A Pro-Life Guide, and her book Unplanned is a must-listen for anyone who has ever read it or watched it. In this episode, Abby shares her story of how she became pro-choice, her experience at a Latin Mass, and why she left the Episcopal Church of America.
Transcript
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It gives me great pleasure on this episode of the John Henry Weston Show to welcome Abby Johnson.
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Great hero in the pro-life movement and someone whose book we read, Unplanned, whose movie we watched and everything else.
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Let's begin, as we always do, with the sign of the cross.
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In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
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Abby Johnson, it gives me great pleasure to welcome you to the John Henry Weston Show.
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We're going to talk about something probably that you haven't talked much on camera about before.
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However, you were gracious enough to be part of our conference on the reception of our Lord on kneeling and on the tongue.
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And many people have asked questions about that.
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You also have recently gone to a Latin Mass and had some really neat experiences there.
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So let's start off, if you would, just telling us a little bit about how you came to the Catholic Church in the first place.
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A story that perhaps some don't even know about.
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Yeah, so, you know, I was raised Southern Baptist.
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And, you know, I have to say, though, I think I always had, there was sort of a draw to Catholicism.
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I just thought, always, I think, an interest there.
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My mom says, I don't remember this, but my mom says that when I was a little girl, I would, she would catch me watching EWTN.
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And she said that I would put a towel around my head and clothespin it.
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And I would sit on the floor and watch Mother Angelica on EWTN.
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And so I just sort of always had like a fascination with the Catholic Church.
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I think I always felt a really strong pull to our Blessed Mother.
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But just growing up, I just had a lot of questions about her.
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You know, we studied all these different women, you know, in the Bible and strong women, you know, Deborah, Ruth, Esther, Sarah.
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And, you know, that was during the Christmas season.
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And I remember asking my pastor one time, you know, gosh, we talk about all of these, we study these women in the Bible.
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And, you know, here we have undoubtedly, you know, the most important woman ever to walk the face of the earth, Mary.
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And I sort of got the, you know, the, you know.
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And I just kept feeling this sense that there was something more that I needed to know.
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I had a lot of questions growing up about my faith.
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And I never got answers that were satisfactory.
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And so, you know, then I sort of moved on with life.
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And when I worked at Planned Parenthood, we started going to the Episcopal Church.
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And one of the things I loved about the Episcopal faith is the liturgy.
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And that was something that was different to me.
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But there also was a slight emphasis on Marian tradition also in the Episcopal Church.
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So I could sort of have, you know, Marian light, right?
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That was, you know, that fit the things that I wanted at that time.
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When I left Planned Parenthood and became publicly pro-life, I was, we were actually,
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we called in and we were, you know, sat down by our Episcopal priests.
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And we were told that we were no longer welcome in the Episcopal Church of America.
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And we knew we were going to have to leave anyway.
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We didn't want to be a part of a pro-choice congregation and the National Episcopalian
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I mean, their national doctrine is pro-abortion.
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And all of our new friends happened to be Catholic.
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And so they were, you know, bugging us every Sunday, you know, come to mass, come to mass,
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And so we finally said, okay, fine, we'll go, you know.
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So we went and win the mass and we sat there and we didn't really know what it was.
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We know now, but at the time we were sitting there in mass and we just, we walked out really
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We sat in the car and Doug and I just looked at each other and we said, I don't know what
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We just felt this peace and we wanted to know more.
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And of course, as soon as we told our friends that, we found ourselves in an RCIA class.
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And I found out that all of these questions that I had had over, you know, that had plagued
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me during my childhood and growing up and really trying to learn about my faith, all of these
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questions that I had grown up with, they were being answered one after one.
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And, um, and I just knew that there was truth there, that that was the truth that I had been
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And so Doug and I entered the church together, um, Easter Vigil of 2012.
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And, um, and honestly, you know, it, it has been a great journey.
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Um, it, it, it's been, uh, has it been perfect, you know?
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Um, and I would say, you know, as of the past couple years, um, it's been tough.
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It's, it's, it's been a, um, a difficult, um, road for, for Doug and I, I have, um, there
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have been times that I have been troubled by things I'm seeing in church, um, you know,
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trouble enough to make me say, what are we, what are we doing?
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Um, you know, I, there are times that I've said, you know, Lord, if, you know, if it wasn't
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If you could, um, you know, describe some of them to give us a sense of what, what it
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There's been a lot of frustrations, I think, with sort of the liberalism inside of the
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church, um, different appointments by the Pope, um, even things that the Pope has said
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that I haven't understood, um, you know, things that have been accepted by priests, um, of course,
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you know, so much of these scandals, um, inside of the church, you know, um, but it's just
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been, I think sort of the, the, I think there's the lack of reverence toward the Eucharist, um,
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I think the, the pro-LGBT agenda that has sort of seeped into the church, um.
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And obviously not in the, in the, um, the church itself, but especially among her members
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No, and yeah, I think the leadership really has been very frustrating to me.
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And then sort of this, uh, this, I don't know, like almost acceptance, um, within the leadership
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and a failure to denounce it and, and to say, no, this is not right.
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And I think part of it is sort of this, I've said sort of this come as you are mentality.
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Um, it's really a, uh, sort of a Protestant way of thinking that has seeped into, um, the
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mass and which brings about sort of a lack of reverence for the Eucharist.
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Yeah. Um, one of the, one of the things I really, uh, love about you and, and your faith is I
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remember, um, you know, as you were converting and, uh, you came into the church, um, I was at
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one of these conferences. It was a, it was a March for Life conference and you were having another
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child, yet another child, and you basically described it as, yeah, we're Catholic. And it was
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just hilarious. You, you, when you are convinced of something, you come to it with such a passion
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and with a full giving, every, everything's sort of like black and white, and you're going to just
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do the right thing. And that was so inspiring for me. And it was awesome to hear you. Um, and I think
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that, you know, you can see that now, at least I see that now in your explanation. I mean, you're
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wholly given to the truth of the church. And when you see that violated by her ministers, even by
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bishops and, and God forbid, the Pope, um, that doesn't sit with your soul, right? And you're willing
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to say, nope, that's not right. And it does, it leads us to a lot of confusion, especially
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in the church today where we're, you know, what, what's, what in the world is going on?
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So you were saying that, you know, if it weren't for the Eucharist, where would I be? Lord,
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what's going on? Um, you recently tweeted about having attended a Latin mass. What brought
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So I've recently been, there's this little section in St. Faustina's diary and I'm going
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to mess it up, but it just says, you know, like, Oh my Lord, you know, if it wasn't for
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the Eucharist, I don't know how I could keep going, you know, but essentially it says something
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like that, you know? And I was just like, Oh Jesus. Yes. I mean, that's, that's how it feels.
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Like, how can I continue on this journey? You know, if it wasn't for the Eucharist and there
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were times I remember, I mean, I remember there was a time when I, I, um, I said to my husband,
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I said, I don't know if I want to be Catholic anymore. I was so frustrated with, with the things
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that I was seeing in the church. And I remember saying to my husband, I don't know, I don't know
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if I want to be Catholic anymore. And I remember him saying to me, um, but where, where would
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we go? And that really led me to a time of prayer and, um, and even going, even really
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sitting, uh, in adoration, which to be perfectly honest is tough for me because my mind is always
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going. So I actually just sitting and like going to adoration, that's really a struggle
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for me. Um, but I actually went to adoration and just sitting and, and just being still.
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And, and over the past few months, I really felt like God was telling me he was leading
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me somewhere different, but it wasn't outside of the church, but I didn't know what he meant.
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I didn't know what that was. And to be quite frank with you, I always thought that people
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who went to Latin mass were crazy. Um, I was like, Oh no, like traditional Catholics. No,
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like, um, they are like weirdo Catholics and not, not going to do that. Um, but I kept,
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it just kept coming to mind, honestly, like God kept just bringing it to mind and he kept
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bringing people to mind, um, and, and putting people in front of me, like things to read
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and, and, and different posts and such. And I was like, okay, God, I get it. You know?
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And so, um, so one Sunday or one Saturday evening, um, I looked at Doug and I said,
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you're going to think this is crazy, but I actually want to go to lab mass tomorrow.
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And, uh, and he looked at me and he said, I do think that's crazy, but let's go.
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And, uh, and he said, I'm all for it. So, um, because we had both just been feeling
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frustrated, you know, and had really been talking about it, but just not knowing where God was
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really calling us, you know? And, uh, so we went, uh, to lab mass for the first time and it was
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actually, um, we just had, uh, ordination, uh, that Saturday before. So it was, uh, first mass
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for one of our newly ordained priests. And, um, we went and, oh my gosh, it was,
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I mean, I didn't know what the heck was going on, but it was so beautiful.
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And I remember just sitting there and just really taking it all in. And I posted on Twitter,
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you know, that I was going to do this. And, um, I actually talked to Taylor Marshall a little bit
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before we went and he said, just, and everybody's advice was just, just don't try to follow along,
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just sit there and just take it in. And that's what I did. And that's what we all did. And
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it was just, it was such a beautiful experience. And first of all, the music was
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like out of this world. Um, that in itself was just such a prayer. Um,
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but I was struck by several things right off one. I was struck by, um, just how masculine
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the service felt. And I didn't know if really that would make sense when I sort of put it out there,
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but people were like, no, that totally makes sense. I mean, just, um, everything was led by
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priests. Yeah. It wasn't a laity led service. Um, it was, you know, the chanting every, I, I became
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emotional, um, um, during the chanting because it was just such a beautiful, just masculine, uh,
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sound. And it was just, and I just thought, you know, it was just fatherly, um, sounding and just
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was so reverent and, and beautiful. And, um, and I, I love that. I, it just makes you feel,
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um, I don't know, cared for. I don't, I don't know. I don't know a better way to put it. It just,
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I don't know. Um, and, uh, the other thing that I noticed right off the bat. Okay. So during the
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consecration in the Novus Ordo mass, you know, we're very a part of it, right? So we're like
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saying prayers with the priests and we're hearing everything they're doing. And at first when I sat
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there, I was like, gosh, well, I'm just sitting here. I'm not doing anything. And at first I was
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like a little offended, you know, like, well, why am I not a part of this? And then I thought,
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well, why do I need to be a part? I don't have anything to do with it. Right. That's between,
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that's between priests and God. Like I don't, God doesn't need me to say these prayers. Right.
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And it, and it just became so apparent, like, that's right. God doesn't need me to be a part
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of the consecration. God needs me to be here praying, to be prayerful, you know, to be bringing
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intentions to him, like during the mass, to be praying for the priest. And it just, and all of a
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sudden it felt, at first I was offended. And then all of a sudden I felt so free.
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Yeah. And I thought, no, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. I'm not supposed to be actively
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involved in the consecration. Right. Like I'm not the priest. Yeah. Like I'm supposed to be here,
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just prayerful. That's what the laity are supposed to be doing in this moment.
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Yeah. My, my, my own, yeah, no, it's just our priest at, at LifeSite, uh, father, uh, Anthony
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Polari. He's a, he's a great priest and he celebrates the, the traditional mass and he opens
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it particularly to people who've never experienced it before. And he says, don't, you know, don't
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worry about as, as you were told to, you know, you don't have to follow along and whatever,
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right, right away. But he said, basically, what would you do if you were at your crucifixion?
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Cause that's where you are. Each mass is your being present at the crucifixion. And what
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would you do if you're present at the crucifixion? And I think for a lot of people that, that helps
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to, uh, tell us what we're supposed to be doing, doing, if you will, at mass, we're there
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watching the priest in persona Christi offer himself, offer Christ to the eternal father,
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that the same sacrifice of Calvary at mass is a beautiful thing. And it's exactly like that.
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You're not in the way of active participation, as you said, that's not part of it, but you
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are there. You're there as a witness of the crucifixion. You're able to be where the apostles
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ran away from. You're able to be at the foot of the cross. So, um, yeah, beautiful.
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Anyway, like I, I mean, I, you know, we've only been a few times and, and, but I have to say
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like, I, for the first time in, in a while, like I'm actually, I feel very reinvigorated
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about my faith. Like I'm excited to go to mass. I haven't felt that way in a long time. Um,
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it doesn't feel like a chore anymore. And surprisingly, as long as Latin mass is,
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um, my children are actually really well behaved. I think it's exciting for them. Like it's different,
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you know? Um, and I don't know, for some reason they're like, they're looking around,
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you know, what's going on. And, uh, so it's interesting, you know, and they're more engaged,
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I think, uh, there's something different. Yeah. There's a whole set of like P's and Q's
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that, that are in the atmosphere at a Latin mass that just aren't there. It's not a communal thing.
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The priest is facing away. It's, it's a very different atmosphere for kids too.
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It is different. The atmosphere is just different. I'm not like sitting there like sweating. Like
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if my kid like makes a noise, you know, like, and everybody's looking around, like,
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I know that was the Johnsons, you know, because the average number of kids is like
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27 and 11, like, you know, there's kids everywhere and it's just a beautiful, it really does feel like
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a community. And, um, it is just a very different experience. And, um, I know it's not like the
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silver bullet answer to all the church's problems, right? I know that, but, um, there is something
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different there and man, the homilies that we have heard have just been on fire. I mean,
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you know, every time that we've gone and I'm just, I'm so excited to go to mass every Sunday.
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I mean, like, I'm just looking forward to it every Sunday and that feels so good, you know,
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once again, and just to not feel the frustration that I had been feeling, um, for the past, you
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know, couple of years and, um, and to just to, just to feel that renewal of my faith. And, and
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we're very, I mean, we don't know what's going on, you know, we don't know what is happening, but
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we're learning and we're excited to learn. Um, you know, it's really beautiful. And it's beautiful
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to be a student again, you know? Yeah. Yeah. There's also a unanimity. I mean, uh, uh, in,
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in the Latin mass community, you don't find the same sort of disparity that you find elsewhere in
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the church. Um, there, there's, uh, basically no one there who's going to be like, yeah, you're
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just kind of radical on the abortion issue. I'm kind of like, you know, I know I'm personally
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against abortion, but you know, uh, you for the most part actually don't find that. And
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also, and this is what I'd like you to speak on next, the issue of the reception of Holy
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Communion on kneeling and on the tongue in the Novus Ordo in, in, in, uh, regular mass,
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that can be all over the place. You can have priests who refuse. Um, you can have people sort
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of looking at you, particularly now in time of coronavirus, you know, it's, it's done either
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outside the mass, if at all, if it's allowed at all. And, uh, if it's done, you know, it's,
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you're always a second class citizen, citizen sort of, sort of speak. Um, even though it's
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not intentional and nobody, you know, but in, in Latin mass, everybody receives, um, Holy
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Communion kneeling on the tongue and kneeling if they can, obviously, if they're prevented
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from physically, that's, that's fine. But, uh, you know, there's that beautiful, uh, oneness
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in, in, in so many respects that, that really is, uh, a thing of the Latin mass. It's kind
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of different. So you did this, uh, short statement for the conference on communion on the tongue
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and kneeling, um, about not receiving Holy Communion in the hand. What, um, what sort of
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inspired you that way? And why do you receive our Lord that way?
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So that's been something actually, even before, I mean, when we first became Catholic and, you
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know, um, you know, we were being taught about the Eucharist and we were being taught about
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the real presence and, and they were saying, you know, in our CIA, they, they would tell
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us, you know, well, you can receive, you know, directly on the tongue or in the hand. And I
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remember thinking to myself, why, why would anybody receive the Lord on their hand? Why
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would anybody do that? I mean, part of, part of, part of the Eucharist could be on your
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hand. You could wipe it away on your, you know, if you truly believe that is the real presence
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of the Lord. Why would you ever have that in your hand? Why would you ever take the chance
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that, that part of the Eucharist could be left behind on your hand to be discarded or,
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you know, thrown away or wiped away or, um, and so I remember in that moment saying, oh,
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I will never receive on the hand. I mean, that's that, no, absolutely not. Um, and, but then
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I just, then I started realizing just the lack of reverence in general, um, among Catholics.
00:25:15.660
Uh, I think that just that realization of the real presence in the Eucharist
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I think that that is, I mean, what, there was a poll that came out and so many Catholics don't
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even, they just believe it's a wafer. They didn't even believe in the real presence anymore.
00:25:36.860
And I think it's because of that come as you are attitude. I think it's because so many have
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received on their hand and that reverence has, has been taken away. Um, it's because we have,
00:25:47.640
we have, you know, lost that we're kneeling when we're receiving the Eucharist. We just, you know,
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walk up, take them in our hand. Like it's just nothing. Like it's just some cracker, you know, like it's
00:26:01.120
an animal cracker, you know, and just walk away, um, casually. I mean, gosh, if it's, if this is the real
00:26:09.940
presence of our Lord, I mean, of course we should be bowing, kneeling with respect. I mean, gosh,
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we are so unworthy. That's what we say, right? That we are so unworthy to, to be receiving this.
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I mean, we have to humble ourselves. We have to humble our hearts to even be receiving, to even
00:26:31.700
be in the same, to be in the presence of our Lord, but he's giving us this gift. And so what,
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we're just going to take it in our dirty hands and put it in our, I mean, like, no, absolutely not.
00:26:44.220
Like it goes from our priest, you know, holy hands directly into our mouth as a gift. We're not
00:26:50.720
taking it, we're receiving it. And so that was, that was something that, that was made very clear to me
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when I was in RCIA. Um, but I think it's just that casual nature that has crept into
00:27:10.500
You know, Abby, we'll, we'll end off with this, but you know, some people who are going to watch
00:27:14.500
this are going to say, what, what is, what is Abby Johnson doing? She's, she's got such credibility.
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You know, she's been, uh, here, there and everywhere for life. There's a movie made about
00:27:23.820
her. She's written a book. Her pro-life is her thing. Why, why are you doing this now? This,
00:27:28.240
this is like threatening your credibility. Why, why go down this road?
00:27:31.420
Oh gosh, John Henry. That's it. They say it about me all the time.
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I, uh, this is, yeah, this is my faith. This is, um, this isn't to disparage anyone, but this is,
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this is like my lifeblood. This is who I am. This is part of what makes me, me.
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And this is, I mean, gosh, Jesus is my life and this is important. And, you know, we as Catholics,
00:28:08.560
I mean, we need to be having these discussions, not to offend one another, but to really hear one
00:28:14.360
another in truth and, and to really think about what we're saying, you know, I mean, and I can
00:28:21.660
understand that if, if someone had been, you know, you've just been someone who's been taking the
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Eucharist in your hand and just, you know, you know, receiving that way. And maybe you're listening
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to me and going, what does she know? She's a convert. When, you know, what have you been Catholic
00:28:37.280
five minutes? Like, okay, I get it. Like, you know, what do I know? What do I know? Maybe not a lot,
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but man, I chose this faith. This, I'm on fire for my faith. I chose this as an adult, willingly.
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You know, I wasn't born into this. And, you know, this is something that I am very passionate about.
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I am not apathetic about my faith. And I, I don't know, I'm not a theologian about the Catholic
00:29:13.180
faith. But I know that I love this church and I love the Lord and I love the Eucharist. And I know
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what it's like to long for the Eucharist because I waited, you know, I went to mass and I waited and
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I watched everyone just casually walk up and take the Eucharist while I longed to receive the Eucharist.
00:29:35.740
And so I know what that feels like. And so I, I don't ever want to take that for granted. And so
00:29:40.960
once I was finally able to receive, I mean, I, that reverence was so profound for me. And so I may not
00:29:51.460
know much about the church and I'm certainly no theologian, but, um, I am very passionate
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about Jesus Christ and I'm very passionate about the Catholic church and I get it wrong
00:30:02.780
a lot of times. And I admit that. Um, but I, I think that sometimes we, you know, even if we disagree
00:30:13.300
with someone, sometimes we have to listen to them and say, is what they're saying making sense?
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And that's what I would ask people to say is, you know, is what I'm saying making sense?
00:30:25.920
Amen. Abby Johnson, it is so good to be with you as always here on the John Henry Weston show.
00:30:38.320
Hello, this is John Henry Weston. I'd like to invite you to subscribe to the John Henry Weston
00:30:43.280
show YouTube channel. If you haven't already done so there, you will find all the past episodes,
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and much more. Thanks again for watching and may God bless you.