After 25 years of marriage I regretted saying 'yes' but after 30 knew it was the greatest blessing
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Summary
In this episode, Pastor Ken teaches about the role of women in the creation of the world and the role that women have played in it since the fall of Adam and Eve and how their roles have changed since the time of the fall.
Transcript
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Women were just play toys of men. They were just used as men wanted to use them.
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They dominated women. They were just another thing to own. And it was Mary that changed that
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whole thing. When Christ came, the new Adam, and Mary, the new Eve, the whole position of women
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changed. You had a beautiful observation about Adam and Eve. Tell us about that.
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I grew up with three older brothers that abused me. My dad, one time when I asked him about it,
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wasn't exactly kind in his answer. And then I'd had boyfriends who inevitably took advantage of me
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or betrayed me in some way, made promises they didn't keep or said they'd do something and then
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didn't, or it was just obvious they were just using me as an arm piece. Anyway, so by the time I grew
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up, I didn't like men, even after 35 or 40 years of marriage. I love my boys. I love my children,
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but men as a whole, I kind of found them, oh, an obnoxious, brutish kind of thing. I mean,
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Christian men were much better because they'd been formed and in principle, you know, and I
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occasionally met men that were real gentlemen. But for the most part, I didn't have much of an
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opinion for the basic nature. I found that their ego, in my opinion, was really a major portion of
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their, you know, being. So I was at church and I was talking to this guy, a man and his wife,
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and they were good friends and we were laughing a lot. He made some comment and I go, oh yeah,
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of course you'd think that way. Because of course you're a man. Oh, it's all me. I'm to conquer. I'm
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the one. I was doing this in church. And I said, you men, all of you think that the whole world and
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everything in it was made for you. And I stopped just like that. And they were laughing. I said,
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wait a minute. It was just this, this sudden instant realization. And mind you, I'm in my
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sixties at this point. And I go, and I turn and look at me and goes, wait a minute. It was made for
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you. God made creation for Adam. He made all the animals for Adam. He made everything, the garden
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for Adam. Eve wasn't in a picture until Adam said, I've looked at all the animals that you've created,
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Lord, and there's nothing that I find suitable for me. And then God put Adam asleep and took a rib out
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of his side and created woman who has fascinated and enchanted man ever since. But even woman was
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created for Adam. That was like a bomb going off inside me. That really was. I spent probably the
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next three years meditating on that and realizing what a deep and very important theological principle
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it is. And in the course of that, I realized that God in every marriage repeats that initial
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creation. My husband is my Adam. I am his Eve. You are your wife's Adam. She is your Eve. The principle
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of what occurred in the garden, that the woman was the helpmate for the man and that the man was created
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by God. He had authority. He had dominion in the garden. And then the wife was his helpmate and he
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was to love her and husband her. And if you were agricultural, you'd understand the term husband her
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in the agricultural sense. And she was to be his helpmate. And of course, if the fall hadn't happened,
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everything would be in perfect order. And the husband would love her properly and they would
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be on equal level and he would honor her and she would respect him and recognize his authority and
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be in proper submission to the authority because he wouldn't be abusing the authority. But Adam fell.
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And when he fell, the same domination he felt over the animals in the land, he wanted over his wife.
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And that was part of the curse. You know, you, your heart will long for your husband, but he shall
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lord it over you. And that's what you see in the Old Testament. Women were just play, make play toys
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of men. They were just used as men wanted to use them. They dominated women. They were just another
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thing to own. And it was Mary that changed that whole thing. When Christ came, the new
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Adam and Mary, the new Eve, the whole position of women changed. And now women became the new Eve,
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they were respected. And it was through Mary and through the teaching of Christ that the whole
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doctrine of husbands love your wives as Christ loves the church and wives submit to your husband,
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that whole doctrine began to rise up and to be taught, which was totally revolutionary back then.
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And that was a real changing point for me. It changed the way that I approached my husband.
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This October 17th and 18th, we are going to be running Rome Life Forum in Exile. We're doing that
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in Kansas City, Missouri. This fine bishop, Bishop Joseph Strickland, sort of in exile, is going to be
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joining us there as well as Dr. Janet Smith, as well as prophecy expert, Xavier Aral, and many more,
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including a special guest. Hope to see you there. Hope to see you there. God bless you.
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Well, just the beauty of that idea that God basically recreates Adam and Eve with every
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married relationship, that in a sense, it's real that God chose. I mean, at one level,
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we always think it's real. But to actually really contemplate, God chose your wife for you from all
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eternity. He made her for you in a very real way and yourself for your wife. That recreation of Adam
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and Eve in every married relationship, that's a stunning observation.
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I think Christians generally recognize, you know, that the Lord has someone for you.
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I mean, my best friend in high school had a boyfriend, right? And we, he and I were friends
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aside from her. I had zero interest in this guy, completely. I mean, zero. There was never a thought
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of betraying my friend in any way. The only thing we really talked about was her anyway,
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you know, and because I knew her better. And so I could give him tips. If he'd done something like
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that hurt her or something, I could help him understand what she needed. You know, it just
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is true. And like with our sons, when they were starting to date, we tell them, look, no woman is
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worth your soul. You got it. No mortal sin for, for some woman is worth your salvation. So don't do it.
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But more importantly, you are the man and your responsibility is to show respect for the woman
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and to show respect for the desire that the Lord gave her to surrender to you because her task is
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submission to you. So it's your are the one that you're going to have to say, if she starts
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becoming a little bit to whatever, you have to say, no. Number one, I love myself too much.
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I'm not going to commit sin with you. But number two, I respect you too much and I'm not going to.
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And in one relationship, one of my children, he came home and he said, man, it's really getting
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hard, mom. And I said, are you the one? And she said, no, she's really pressuring it. And I said,
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okay, next time you're in the car, you just look at it and you say, you stop acting like that or
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breaking up because I'm not going to hell for you or for anybody else. And I'm not going to violate
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you that way. You are worth more than that. And that's it. And then after the next date,
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I came home, he came home. I said, how was he? He said, it worked like charm. She stopped everything.
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And I said, great. And so they were able to continue and all the kids, you know, remain
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chased. And it's because that dynamic, it's so essential. Women have a natural desire to surrender
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to the authority of a man. It goes back to Adam and Eve. It's what we were created with.
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The Abbot of Hocambo told me that one of the reasons they established their, one of their first
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affiliates, it's not called that. I don't remember what it's called right now in America was because
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they had eight or 10 American had monks. And he said, men are tied to the ground and the land that
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they live in is very, very important to them. And as men get older, that doesn't get easier.
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And I was watching it. He said, get harder and harder for these Americans to be away from their
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country. And so he said, we wanted to get them back into the country. And they were, they were
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much happier there. On the other hand, women are born from the side of man. They're born from
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relationship. And so for them, they're not tied to the ground. Women are tied to the men they're
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married to. That's why a woman can follow a man wherever she goes. And she can still be happy as long
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as her home works, as long as the relationships in the house are good. She's happy. She doesn't
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have to be on soil. Men are definitely tied to the soil and to, you know, they came from the earth and
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they're tied to the earth and where they are is as important to them as the, and the relationships in a
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way almost aren't as the work that they do is very important to them. And you can go back, you can just
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see it in Adam and Eve. And it was a real, it's been a real help to me, John Henry, when I run into
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times when I want to be angry at my husband to remember, oh, he's my Adam, you know, just give
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him a break. I mean, this is part of being the man. God created the man that way. And if God did it,
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then you need to just let it go. It's kind of thing. Indeed. One of the things you said that I found
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stunning and I think would be a help for many people is the fasting that you watched your
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husband do and that you do as well, but how that helped in your marriage. We got married. We knew
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that the primary task of our marriage was to pass the faith on to our children. We knew that.
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And we also knew that he and I were two very broken people and that we had no capacity for
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really doing that. We knew we were utterly inadequate to the task. And we also knew that
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Bob was the one that was going to be responsible for the discernment for the children and for our
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family. Although really the fasting started as a result of this. Bob said, all right, let's do some
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fasting and we'll do it all for the spiritual development of our children. We were terrified. I mean,
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in our opinion, well, let me put it this way. Whenever I got pregnant, we would put our hands
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on my tummy and we'd pray that the Holy Spirit would come and indwell this child and dwell and
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infuse every cell as the cell was made, as this child developed. And we also prayed that if this
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child was not going to grow up and serve the Lord and be the Lord's and seek the will of the Lord and do
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it, then to take the child before it saw the light of day. Because in our opinion, there wasn't any
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value in having human life. If it wasn't going to ultimately find its end in Christ and serve God's
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will, we'd rather not bother and not even give birth to him. And I did have some miscarriages,
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but we did that with every child. And that was because we wanted the Holy Spirit to be with them from
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the moment of their, the very beginnings of their development, because we knew that we were so
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inadequate and passing on the faith. If they didn't have the Holy Spirit already abiding in them to
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help, we didn't figure they had a chance. So, but we also thought, well, you know, whenever you're
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seeking something from heaven, like the Lord said to the apostles, yeah, they said, why couldn't we cast
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out this demon? Well, this one requires fasting, you know? Well, we figured the same was true for this.
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We were asking, in our opinion, a pretty tall order of the Lord to be able to pass the faith
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on to the children. And so we thought we'd do it with fasting.
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Pope Pius XI said, men must look for the peace of Christ in the kingdom of Christ. And he urged
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When we first started and we were both young, I was 24, he was 36, 37. I think he turned 37 by the time
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and got married. And so our fasting was from dinner Thursday till breakfast Saturday, we just had
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water and we didn't eat or anything. So we just had water. But then I was pregnant. I'd be pregnant
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or nursing pretty much the first 15 to 20 years of our marriage. And he was older. And by the time
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that lasted about three years or four years for him, when he got into his fifties, he began to notice
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he'd be really dizzy. He would not be able to do his work well, and he knew he had to change it.
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So we decided to do something that each of us could do just for the rest of our lives. And it wouldn't
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matter what our state in life was. So what he did is he quit eating sugar on a Monday through Saturday,
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and he only allowed himself to have anything with sugar in it on Sundays. And that was a huge penance
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for him. I mean, the man's 87. It's still a hard penance for him to see everybody else having
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dessert or everybody else stopping by and having an ice cream cone. And he says, no, he's not going
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to have it. He loved ice cream. When I met him, he would eat half of a carton of ice cream for dessert
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after dinner and never gain any weight. That was the killer. And I, you know, eat two teaspoons and
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gain a couple of pounds. That's so frustrating. You know, anyway, that's beside the point. So that was a
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penance he took on. And for me, after thinking about it and praying about it, I decided to start
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wearing skirts because I only wore jeans from the time I, when I was five years old, I asked my
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mother for two pairs of boys jeans for Christmas. It's the only gift I wanted. And once I got into
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them, I knew I'd never, in fact, I slept with, I slept in my jeans for about the first month till mom
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found out and forbid me to do it. I didn't ever want to take them off anyway. So that was all I
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wore. And so then I, I made the commitment to, to stay in skirts and it has proven to be a difficult
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commitment because you climb up on ladders or you want to do anything like that. You know, you can't,
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it's not as easy as in pants. It's just easier to clean a house in pants. And, you know, one of the
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things I loved about pants is that when I was eaten a little bit too much and beginning to gain weight,
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your pants and let you know, skirts just expand with you, you know, you could be 10 or 15 pounds
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overweight real quick and never know. And so, yes, we did that. And we offered it for the spiritual
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development of our children. And I found that the Lord heard the prayer and honored the prayer.
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And I noticed that the wisdom of my husband grew with his fasting and it began to be where
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he would inevitably make the right decision. And in times of crisis, like, you know, when kids,
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especially when you're first married, your kids are crying, your babies are crying, you don't know
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what's wrong and you get really scared and nothing helps. And, you know, there's always that visit to
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the, to the ER to find out, Oh yeah, that's just gas. Give him this, you know, whatever. And,
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but I knew I could trust my husband when the kids fell down and they might have a broken arm or
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something. I knew that my husband would just pray a little bit and I, whatever he decided it was
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always right. And I knew that came from his fasting. And then as the kids got older, he was a superb
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disciplinarian and he would take the kids into the bedroom, hear their story, call whoever else was
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there, call the other kid that was complaining, hear their story, find out if there were any
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witnesses, hear the witnesses story. And then he'd assemble the kids and he'd say, okay, so here's
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where it began. You made this comment and this is where your sin was because you were mad because
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they had something you couldn't have. Now that sin then resulted in this and then whatever. And then
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he'd go down and show how each of their actions either stopped or whatever. And he dismissed the
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people that didn't have anything to do with it. And then he'd meet out punishment according to the
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degree that they were responsible for whatever came up. And, um, Oh my goodness. I just, I just
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loved him to death for that. And needless to say, the kids have all grown up into pretty good.
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Uh, they're really good about resolving conflicts because they had such a good teacher to teach
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them what to look for. Beautiful. What your, your kids are, are almost all faithful. You, you have
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13 kids, two of whom are priests. It is incredible. I mean, in today's day and age, um, give us the
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ages. What's your oldest and what's your youngest? Oh dear. Are you sure they want their ages? So
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let's put it this way. I've got one, two, three, four. Let me think a minute. Five in their forties
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and the oldest in their forties is, I think he's going to be 50 next year. Okay. And they're,
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they're stair step down. So it's going to be, let me see. Yeah. Yeah. 20, 25. So he'll be 50. And
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then when, by the time 25 ends, it'll be 50, 49, 47, 45, 42, 40, 38, uh, 36. One of the adopted
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children will also be 36 and then 34, uh, for my youngest. And then the next one will be 33 and
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then one will be 30. That's another adopted child. And then the youngest will be turning 23. So that's
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what they'll all be by the end of 2025. And, um, we had nine of our own and all of them are faithful
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Catholics. All of them are devout. All of them are, are practicing the faith and they are already
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passing on that faith to their children. And you know, what's really neat, uh, John Henry, my son,
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father, Dan, when he was in the military and he was in charge, he was a captain. He fasted for his men
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the whole time that he was in there. He said, dad showed me what being a father would be and what a
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good father should do. And I know that I am like a father to these men. He'd help them get, overcome
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their drug habits. He'd help them find, he'd have them take online classes. He'd watch for,
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cause a lot of these men were from ghetto areas and hadn't had a lot of advantage. And he'd watch for
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a particular trait or a strong point they had and talked to them about developing it. Um, and he would
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fast for them. And it's interesting that he was in the battle of on Nazaria. His, his group was there
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and in that whole war, not one man of his, nor he received a single scratch. Wow. Yeah. That's how
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powerful fasting is on the part of the one that's in charge. I am certain that my husband's fasting
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made all the difference in our family. It's very powerful, very powerful tool. And that was so cool.
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When I heard that, I told him, I said, I'm so proud of you. That's so cool. He said, well,
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that's what dad did. So I'm a father now. So that's what I should do. And I know that he's
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fast for his parishioners. I know he does on a regular basis. If you can tell us now, um, just
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what your heart is for your husband at this point. It's funny cause you, you've, you've had such a
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difficult relationship and you were warned in a way by the Bishop and the nun who were offering their
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prayers for you, but where are you now in terms of your relationship?
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Well, I'll tell you what, at 25 years of marriage, I went to my husband and I said, okay, now for our
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25th wedding anniversary, you're going to, we're going to have a mass and whatnot. Do not ask me to
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repeat my vows because I will say no, flat out. No. And he said, what, what do you mean? He said,
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don't you think God brought us together? No, I don't. And knowing what I know now,
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I would never do this again ever. So just don't ask. That's where I was at 25 at 30 years. It was
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like, oh my gosh, this man was the greatest blessing that Bob could, that God could possibly
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have given me. Oh my gosh. I mean, he was my hero, you know, so much had just, just things that the
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Lord had shown me and things I was able to see. And I began to understand his person. I began to
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understand more how hard it had been for him and how difficult a woman with my personality was for
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him, you know, et cetera. And I just, I just had changed. Now at 50 years, I just can't imagine
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life without him. I really can't. I've wondered a lot of times, I'm sure he'll probably die before
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I will because he's 13 years older than I am, although he might not. But I've thought, what am I
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going to do? I'm going to feel really lost. I love him, but it's a depth of love that's very
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different, but it's a love that no longer cares. I don't care what happens to me. It's all, it just,
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as long as he's comfortable, as long as he's happy, I'm just want to meet his needs. That's what I'm
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here for. Have you eaten? What would you like to eat? Oh, you're not particularly hungry. What would
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you like me to just fix this? You know, I'm going to make sure I get the bed made, put the sheets on.
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He likes, you know, just those sorts of things. But spiritually, he's grown into a very holy man.
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I have no worry. In fact, one time, for various reasons, I don't have time to go into,
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Our Lady came to me. I was appealing to her to give me an answer for a situation that had arisen.
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And one of the things in the course of our conversation, she said, is it is the Father's
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will that both you and your husband go straight to heaven when you die, which is, but you have
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sins that you've committed that would normally require purgatory time. But the Father has decided
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that he will allow you to work that off here. But this is the suffering, and it was what I was praying
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about, that he has laid on you in order to accomplish that. And it's a very heavy suffering.
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And, and then, of course, I just became joyful in suffering, because now I knew the reason. I
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thought, well, that's incredible and merciful. So I don't have a lot of worry that that either of us
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are going to be lost when we die. And yeah, just, I don't know, yeah, the love of my life. And we have
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become one. Against all odds, we have definitely become one. And our hearts beat very much together.
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It's very rare now that, I mean, yeah, I can look at him and know how he's feeling. I can look at his
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eyes, I can see and can tell what he's probably thinking. You know, even when he does things that
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may seem inexplicable, I can usually tell you what the motive probably was behind him. And it's very
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peaceful, very calm, very enjoyable, a very quiet love. The path of the priest that did the wedding
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for my child that got married first said about the wedding feast at Cana, it is so typical of God to
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save the best for last. And that's what he does in a marriage. The early years are going to be storming
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and working things out. The middle years are going to be, you know, probably working on yourself,
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but he saves the best for last and the two shall become one. And that has absolutely come true.
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I can't imagine life married to any other man. And I've never ever looked at another man and I
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wouldn't want to be married to anyone else. But I realized too, in my old age, the beauty of that man
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for me, I would not be the woman I am today. And quite frankly, I like who I've become today
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without him. And it was precisely his weaknesses that required the most of me. It was his weaknesses
00:25:22.100
that burned off me. I was selfish. I had very little compassion, very little empathy.
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He is tenderhearted and melancholic. And I had to develop selflessness, compassion, and empathy
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in order to be able to really love him fully. And so it's been our marriage that has made me who I am
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today. And I'm sure he would say the same. And he's a very beautiful man now.
00:25:51.600
Trish Nolan, it's been amazing. Your life story is such a beautiful inspiration for other people.
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I think your story is going to give a lot of people hope, encouragement, and inspiration.
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And God bless all of you. And we'll see you next time.