The John-Henry Westen Show - Bishop Eleganti’s Final Warning： The Silence on Doctrine Is a Lie

00:00:00.000 How can a priest go in open opposition to the Bishops' Conference, who gives directives?

00:00:07.180 Of course, it's the end of your career.

00:00:11.380 Hello, my friends. We are here in Rome, in the Eternal City, and we are so privileged to have

00:00:16.820 with us Bishop Marian Eleganti, Auxiliary Bishop Emeritus of Ruhr in Switzerland. And he was here

00:00:25.400 for Rome Life Forum, which is the life site gathering in Rome every year since 2014, minus

00:00:33.320 the COVID years, of course. And we're very privileged and pleased to have you with us. Thank you

00:00:38.380 for joining us. Thank you very much. God bless you. Before we begin, let's begin as we always

00:00:44.180 do, with the sign of the cross, if you could lead us. In the name of the Father, and the

00:00:47.860 Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Bishop Eleganti, I was wondering if you can help to clarify

00:00:54.660 some of the teachings in the Church that are very confused today. They've been confused

00:01:03.480 for over 13 years, but even in the last days, there is so much confusion around them. And

00:01:09.660 one of those actually pertains to the ordination of women. In previous years, life site's been

00:01:17.360 around now nearly 30 years. But in previous years, the suggestion by a priest, even, that

00:01:24.540 women should be ordained, would mean that the priest would be disciplined. Yet, one of the

00:01:32.180 first appointments that Pope Leo made was in your Switzerland. The Bishop of St. Galen was

00:01:40.240 a promoter of women's ordination, and yet he was appointed by Pope Leo. Is this a sign that

00:01:50.840 things are changing? How is Pope Leo putting into leadership roles in the Church priests,

00:02:00.060 priests, now bishops, who are supportive of something that all Catholics used to think is impossible

00:02:08.060 to ever happen?

00:02:08.880 Yes. There are several aspects. First, the doctrine about ordination of women is clear,

00:02:17.880 infallible, outspoken. It's on the table. Since 1994, John Paul II clarified, there will no

00:02:29.060 ordination of women. So, the sacrament of holy order priesthood cannot be given to women because

00:02:42.060 the woman has another vocation, another place in the mystical body, another role to play. That's

00:02:50.060 clear. So, now they have published today, or yesterday, the results of the study group about the women's

00:03:03.060 diaconate, and they, for the fourth or third time, they have to admit there are the historical

00:03:16.060 diaconess, so-called diaconess, so-called diaconate of women in history in the time of the Church

00:03:25.060 father, was not the equivalent of the male diaconate, of the priestly diaconate. So, it was a service

00:03:36.060 of women, and by cultural conditions, because they brought the sacrament, or sacramentalis,

00:03:51.060 to women in a private room, so it was cultural that they made that. But they disappeared again. So, the danger

00:04:03.060 is for me to create a diaconate, which will not be called sacramental, ordained diaconate, but somehow a

00:04:17.060 diaconate for women, and then it will be a confusion. What will they do? Will they preach? Will they read the

00:04:26.060 Holy Gospel? Will they baptize? Will they have leadership? As the pastoral assistants nowadays already have. So,

00:04:37.060 it's not new in this sense, but it would be another step of confusion. And it's always a little bit the same

00:04:47.060 twist. They say, yes, the doctrine cannot be changed, but in practice, in a pragmatical way, they do something

00:05:00.060 similar, which can cause confusion, because if two people make the same thing, the one because of his ordination, and the other

00:05:14.060 without ordination, just with a mandate or a blessing. So, that's also obstructing the sacramental character of the body of

00:05:26.060 Christ, of the Church. So, they say, historically, it's not the same thing as the priestly diaconate, so the first step towards

00:05:41.060 plain priesthood bishop, they say, but nevertheless, the question has to remain open and has to be decided in a

00:05:54.060 doctrinal way by the Pope at the end. But I think that it's already closed and doctrinally it's already decided. So, it's a

00:06:08.060 a little bit of a perpetuum, continuum. One starts always again and tries to let open the door until one receives

00:06:21.060 somehow what one wanted. And yes, that's the doctrine. And why, even given that we had an infallible decision about the

00:06:36.060 priesthood of the woman, it's on the table, it's clear. Why bishops and priests are not disciplined, who continue to

00:06:49.060 open this discussion all the time, even if St. John Paul said clearly, this discussion is now closed forever. They reopen and

00:07:02.060 reopen the books. And also the Vatican does it with these study groups. And so, that's a contradiction. It's incoherent. But it's

00:07:16.060 always the same to say, doctrine does not change, but pastorally, we have to reflect about. Or pastoral, there are pastoral

00:07:28.060 reasons to say, to make something in practice, which contradicts the theory, the doctrine. That it's also the

00:07:39.060 inconsistency of our present church leadership.

00:07:45.060 Yeah, we have three examples in the church right now, in the very short pontificate of Pope Leo, where he has

00:07:53.060 placed as bishops, these men who openly promote women's ordination in your St. Gallen, in Brisbane, Australia,

00:08:02.060 also in Vienna, Austria.

00:08:04.060 Of course, the creation of a bishop is a complicated matter. There is a system involved and maybe the Pope

00:08:16.060 somehow has also to trust his staff and other bishops and cardinals and commissions, which propose a

00:08:26.060 candidate to the Pope. And maybe he cannot be all the time.

00:08:34.060 Bishop Adamathius Schneider said recently, I think, that he, as a Pope, he was asked,

00:08:41.060 what would you do? He would take much time to study the candidates. So maybe there is somehow too

00:08:51.060 much trust in Pope Leo towards the dicastery, which is responsible. He has a very cooperating

00:09:03.060 style of leadership. So he has not inclination to dominate or to impose himself and to suspend

00:09:12.060 the decisions or the persuasion, the convictions of a lower level in his scope. So it can maybe

00:09:24.060 happen. It does not pardon everything, but it could be, there could be reasons why those nominations

00:09:35.060 had a success or were not stopped. But of course, one will see which line, it is not yet clear. Sometimes

00:09:47.060 when you observe Pope Leo, in a decent way, he puts somehow a limit or a reserve. You see, he has a reserve. But you

00:10:01.060 don't see yet with which impetus and coherence, he will also decide and discipline afterwards, those who

00:10:13.060 don't accept a final decision in such a matter.

00:10:19.060 Hello, my friends. I want to thank you so much for your prayers, for your support for Life State News. We

00:10:23.060 couldn't do this without you. We're right here in Rome, in the Eternal City. We're not going to seed

00:10:29.060 Rome. We're not going to give up on the church. We're going to continue to fight despite everything

00:10:35.060 they throw at us. And we need to do that with your help. I would beg for your support so that we can

00:10:41.060 continue this work. It's coming up end of year. And I know many do end of year donations. Please

00:10:47.060 consider Life State News and your giving. God bless you, my friends. And thank you.

00:10:51.060 One of the things that for Americans, and I'm not sure how it's perceived in Europe, because for the

00:10:59.060 American church, Father James Martin is a known character because he is so famous in America. He's the

00:11:08.060 number one promoter of the transgender, of the LGBT agenda within the church. Not like Courage, the apostolate that

00:11:17.060 tries to help people come out of their homosexual inclination and desire to have sexual relations

00:11:25.060 immorally. But he promotes it openly. And yet, when he was met by Pope Francis, it was a big thing. It was the

00:11:36.060 first time a pope would ever deign to meet, and not discipline, no, but to meet and encourage. Having given him

00:11:44.060 multiple interviews, writing for his book, and encouraging his group. When Pope Leo met with

00:11:53.060 Father James Martin, it was stunning, because Francis was not American. So maybe you could say,

00:12:00.060 eh, there's no maybe what it is. But the Americans all know. So that, for me anyway, and for many,

00:12:09.060 many, many Americans, was so shocking, but were left because there was almost no comment from the

00:12:22.060 church leadership. Cardinal Burke, the American Cardinal, to whom all the Orthodox American Catholics

00:12:31.060 looked completely silent. That, to me, was probably the most shocking thing of anything I've seen.

00:12:40.060 Yes, I can understand that. And I consider it as a great mistake to not to give clarity, and to have

00:12:50.060 maybe a wrong idea about inclusivity, to speak to everybody. You see, of course I can speak to hereticals,

00:13:00.060 I can be kind. Pope Benedict invited his colleague King, Professor King, who is a heretic, and to speak with him

00:13:12.060 politely. So in this sense, I can imagine that there is an inclusivity, or in the practical, on the level of

00:13:24.060 relationship, to be inclusive or tolerant. But at the same time, you should give the clarity. I can speak with him, of course,

00:13:36.060 but I can also clarify. That's the position of the church, and we do not accept this propaganda of homosexuality, and this kind of activism.

00:13:50.060 I would not tolerate that priest continues, during years and years, to have such an activist apostolate to normalize homosexuality,

00:14:02.060 because the doctrine of the church will not change. That's a great problem if the magisterium of the church becomes inconsistent,

00:14:16.060 auto-contradictive. That's a very big problem, a very great problem we have now. That there are many twists in a direction which contradicts,

00:14:30.060 prior statements of the magisterium of the church, of predecessors, popes, and that the magisterium of the church presents itself as incoherent, inconsistent,

00:14:49.060 and in such matters as homosexuality, and also in other matters. And that's a real, it's also for me,

00:15:01.060 an ecclesiological and theological problem, if we do not stop this kind of incoherence. And you cannot always stress,

00:15:13.060 that doctrine does not change, but then make practical moves, which contradict the doctrine. The doctrine, the truth, is pastoral. There is no contradiction between doctrine and pastoral life.

00:15:32.060 So, it has to correspond, and the teaching has to be one, because it's always love in truth. But not only feelings, and be kind, and listening, and inclusive to everybody. And the Pope, of course, the images are speaking.

00:16:00.060 From the

00:16:04.260 sign?

00:16:05.140 You should not supervising the power of images, so I have to be very prudent, how, which image is, волl, photographs I produce, because I, and if I produce a photograph, together with such

00:16:21.920 and personality well known i have to give at the same time clarification and if not maybe the

00:16:33.980 clarity is not there so i would regret i would really be sad if the pope hadn't to hear the

00:16:46.280 clarity yeah the discernment it is a funny thing because from an outside perspective the world

00:16:52.840 looking at the church they saw with francis they said very clearly he said who am i to judge

00:17:00.120 he worked with james martin over and over again that is the position of the church it has changed

00:17:10.680 old ladies would say oh we used to pray for my son who's married to a man now we don't have to

00:17:19.200 because the public perception is very much that the church has changed with leo what we had was

00:17:29.120 the meeting with james martin no clarification although people said no no he clarified he then

00:17:38.640 had the lgbt pilgrimage come through the holy door and we saw them with their rainbow flags and

00:17:45.560 their holding hands and he hasn't changed fiducia suplicans the blessing of homosexual couples but

00:17:53.220 then when he gave his first public interview in english he talked about homosexuality but what he

00:18:02.100 said was that he thinks maybe in the future it won't change but before we change teaching we would

00:18:11.020 have to change attitude that's an indication that for me that maybe he has not the clarity in his heart

00:18:18.540 so it's i could not make such a statement we have all the time to change our attitudes in the sense we

00:18:28.220 have to grow in love and you it's we love we never love enough but to speak with this openness that

00:18:37.260 maybe also the doctrine will change that's for me too too much it's too far i don't think so because

00:18:48.620 the perennial teaching is very bold and it's based on on holy scripture so i would never

00:18:58.140 never say that this will be changed maybe and that we start with our attitude to change finally

00:19:06.780 the doctrine so this is for me somehow a deficit deficiency but it's very difficult for me so far

00:19:19.580 away to have the insight into into the conscience and into the personality of pope leo and and also to see

00:19:31.020 who is who are his advisors and a good leader has somehow a an idea where he wants to go and in this

00:19:40.060 sense he has a hidden agenda i step by little step i will go with my enterprise in this direction and in

00:19:50.220 five or three years i want to be there so if this hidden agenda is correct i could imagine a decent way

00:20:02.300 of distancing himself of clear positions of the predecessor now he doesn't want to be too disruptive

00:20:16.300 to to pope francis it could be also a prudence to go a little bit slowly and decently

00:20:25.980 and not to go in an open opposition to the predecessor but it could also be that he sees and he judges the

00:20:37.100 predecessor a little bit in a too positive and not so realistic way and then it would be

00:20:46.220 a lack of discernment of course but god can always inform the pope and also change his mind and by

00:21:00.140 experience and by things that will happen so might we don't know but for for me i i have some doubts so i

00:21:11.180 have some doubt one of the most shocking things that's happened in this pontificate for americans

00:21:19.660 it's very different to have francis saying things in italian but when leo speaks in english

00:21:28.460 all the americans all the north americans we understand it in our native tongue and we understand

00:21:36.140 it with the nuances that come with understanding in your first language and he's speaking as an american

00:21:45.100 so when he said on abortion that well if you're not against the death penalty then you're not really pro-life

00:21:56.300 for the whole pro-life movement particularly the catholics in the movement that was the most shocking thing

00:22:04.140 the almost possible to say because we had the clear teaching from the church

00:22:13.420 and then i i didn't even know what to think but hearing it in english from your own english from you

00:22:22.460 in your own native tongue that made it so much worse and and i'm and again

00:22:29.900 it's silence for me it was not a good statement but it's it was spontaneous and i criticized this kind

00:22:42.140 of taking position spontaneously by interviews the popes shouldn't give interviews in this way because

00:22:53.340 they are not prepared and they speak spontaneously and they give an own opinion but it's not

00:23:02.460 a binding teaching in this context so and it diminishes the authority of the papacy i think so one

00:23:13.020 should avoid avoid that popes shouldn't travel so much they shouldn't shake hands to everybody so they

00:23:24.860 lose a lot of energy and time in the daily life they cannot study the subjects they cannot pray and discern

00:23:34.460 they have no time always exposed to people receiving people just to encourage people or just to have a

00:23:43.420 beautiful image for a movement or so with the pope and so i think the popes are too much occupied by this

00:23:54.380 kind of kind of things and they should be more in silence and in in dialogue with with the experts and

00:24:05.500 informed people and intelligent cultivated people to form a known opinion and then to give teachings

00:24:14.220 but teachings with with their own means they have not with the help of media and so on and of course

00:24:25.340 indeed in that statement it was in the context of cupid and this it was there are wrong connections you

00:24:34.380 cannot compare abortion with death penalty in the sense that that are

00:24:45.500 sophisticated matters when could a death penalty be legitim it's one could imagine situation where it is an

00:25:01.340 ultimate ratio of the state to protect society if you cannot change a criminal and with all his connections and

00:25:14.300 and so the the the the the the tradition was not so absolute in this because also death penalty

00:25:25.260 there is in the old testament and so i don't understand why this incoherence in in the doctrine of the last years

00:25:39.260 only and i i i remain by the tradition in this subject thomas of aquinas and others who who who wrote

00:25:52.220 wrote about that very very sophisticated and very reasonable and very so a statement

00:26:03.420 given spontaneously has not the quality of a

00:26:07.980 doctrinal question

00:26:09.180 and one should consider and ask these theologians to build their own position one should not compare

00:26:23.180 their heavy mortal sins or actions which are per se evil in any situation not to be legitimized

00:26:41.100 and the killing of an innocent is an absolute no-go it does not depend of circumstances and conditions

00:26:54.140 the killing of an innocent is an absolute moral no-go in every situation we occur so you cannot compare that

00:27:05.820 with a judgment of prudence where you have to discern reasons for reasons against one can see is this way or maybe a little bit this way or one can say

00:27:22.300 in the way which for instance death penalty is realized in china or in the united states it's not

00:27:32.460 legitimate it's not right so that's a political judgment of prudence and i would say yes one has to be very critical

00:27:45.580 in which way these penalties are performed but nevertheless it's not the answer

00:27:55.100 you cannot say death penalty is like abortion

00:28:01.820 and evil in say independent of the conditions and the circumstances and the intention it's always evil

00:28:12.460 mortal sin

00:28:13.980 objectively so that's different from a prudent a political judgment of prudence so you cannot make a link

00:28:23.500 so that that would diminish somehow the gravity of the first subject comparing it with also a grave matter

00:28:33.740 but not of the same level so that was a wrong link you've been very generous with your time i have only one

00:28:40.940 more thing for you and that's you're one of the only bishops on earth speaking the only probably one of a

00:28:47.820 a handful of bishops on the earth who are willing to speak the truth at a time of the gravest confusion in

00:28:56.220 the church in her last two thousand years

00:29:00.780 i don't want you to speak for your brother bishops but what are the temptations because i'm sure they exist

00:29:08.860 for you too but you are successfully fighting the temptations but what are the temptations

00:29:15.740 for bishops for cardinals to remain silent even when they know what's happening is destroying the

00:29:24.380 faith of the faithful of the little ones yes it's somehow within the system

00:29:32.380 like also the church is an institution it's also a system and you have or you have

00:29:41.420 you are part of a system also in your diocese you have many structures you have many professionals

00:29:49.500 working for the church they are you your own multiplicators or they are those who abstract

00:29:58.540 your own policy so you have to manage if you are very outspoken maybe the more secular or liberal system

00:30:09.980 the professionals on all the levels will obstruct you and isolate you and and then you can no longer

00:30:20.060 lead your diocese somehow if they can avoid you they will avoid you and they do what they want and if

00:30:29.740 they cannot avoid you they will support you when you are present but afterwards they will continue to

00:30:37.900 follow their own projects so so it's very it's also somehow a captivity for reigning bishops as the pope was

00:30:49.820 captive in avignon a captive of the french king it's somehow also a system and a captivity and and of course

00:31:00.780 in the reese in the last years under pope francis if the pope for instance promotes vaccines or locks down

00:31:15.340 the churches how can a bishop go in open opposition to the pope or a reigning bishop or how can a priest go in

00:31:28.540 open opposition to the bishop's conference who gives directives and so i was somehow as an auxiliary and

00:31:39.820 now as an emeritus without any power i have anything to lose it's easier for me to speak out and maybe to

00:31:50.620 go in to go in a certain opposition but it's of of course it's the end of your career you you don't

00:31:57.740 receive a responsibility in the church you you are an outcast you are market marginalized and you are also

00:32:07.580 a little bit so it's not so easy for a reigning bishop to to go in this clarity maybe and

00:32:20.700 they are they are differences but many bishops think also political power how they have an instinct and

00:32:33.260 they know if i lean out of the windows too much it will give

00:32:39.420 um tomatoes so they don't do that and they think they say something and say anything and they don't

00:32:54.540 it's a tactic also but it depends on the conscience you have always to discern and some sometimes to choose

00:33:05.820 among two evils the less evil but my character is different and and i for me it was always

00:33:16.220 because whether it is true and what is true what i believe that it is true i speak out and i give the

00:33:26.140 arguments why do i believe that's the truth i don't say that i am always right but i have a conscience

00:33:35.580 and i say always what is true what seems to me to be true and i give the arguments why i believe

00:33:45.660 it to be true and then i don't ask what will happen with me i never ask what will happen if i say that and

00:33:57.420 and so i was somehow so without compromise if a chaplain a simple priest would speak to me

00:34:10.140 uh in in in in the way as pope francis spoke to the young people in singapore i would correct him but

00:34:23.020 now that it is the pope who said it i have not another truth i would correct a priest or a laic

00:34:33.180 at table saying that and i would show him the reasons why i believe that's not right was he what he is

00:34:41.740 saying and now should i not speak out because it is is the pope i have no i have not a double truth or a

00:34:52.540 double speech or double double uh measures i i i think the truth and i speak it out and i give the

00:35:05.100 arguments and then the other have to convince me and or to show me that i am wrong but it depends not

00:35:13.260 of the person whether it is a high esteemed person a rich one or a powerful one or in the hierarchy of the

00:35:22.380 church a very high situated person i i i feel um that i am binded to the conscience and to the truth and

00:35:36.540 it does not depend of of the person with who is in front of me so now i can tell you on behalf of many

00:35:48.540 families many catholics we are very very grateful to you for speaking the truth when no one else will

00:35:57.580 yeah um i i i feel myself very hidden somehow it's strange and by the because i have no stuff and

00:36:09.580 uh i have no means but i speak there and there and sometimes it goes ways i don't know i i wonder

00:36:20.700 why to do they know me for instance but my normal perception of my of my daily life it is that i am very

00:36:31.100 small very very um that i have a humble way and that somehow i am a little stone which was put away by

00:36:48.620 the constructors because not useful not so i have many sufferings in this direction and i have many

00:36:58.300 sufferings obscurities which remain only in my soul in my private daily prayer life in my chapel there is

00:37:08.620 the great struggle in my chapel but i am totally alone there but there are many alarms and i feel also

00:37:17.500 that i am totally a sinner i'm imperfect i'm a very weak person and that's also the truth and

00:37:26.300 and so i have a hidden battle a hidden battle and it is always a grace if something goes out

00:37:36.700 and and the people hear about or listen or read it but i don't know the way very often the way

00:37:48.780 how this um my pronouncement arrives to the to the faithful so of course you are now a multiplicator for

00:38:01.740 me but it's the providence which makes that i have no plan i i couldn't make it by myself it's really a

00:38:11.580 grace it's a grace given by the lord to me that i have somehow an apostolate and a publicity a public

00:38:22.540 presence in the media but it could end very quickly it could also end very quickly by several reasons

00:38:31.260 well i would ask you if you wouldn't mind please give us your blessing

00:38:34.300 your blessing the lord be with you all may almighty god bless you the father and the son and the holy

00:38:44.700 spirit amen amen thank you god bless you and god bless all of you and we'll see you next time

00:38:53.180 allah everyone this is jason jones for life side news we hope you enjoyed this video for more content

00:39:02.860 like this check the link in the description you can also connect with us on social media to stay up to

00:39:09.580 date with the latest news on life faith family and freedom thanks for watching and may god bless you

The John-Henry Westen Show - December 19, 2025

Bishop Eleganti’s Final Warning： The Silence on Doctrine Is a Lie

Episode Stats

Length

Words per Minute

Word Count

Sentence Count

Misogynist Sentences

Hate Speech Sentences

Summary

Transcript