The John-Henry Westen Show - February 21, 2022


Canadian democracy is in 'grave danger' of being canceled forever： co-author of rights charter


Summary

Brian Packford, former premier of Newfoundland and Labrador, talks about the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and why it is so important that all Canadians have the right to freedom and equal justice under the Canadian Constitution.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Over the last two years, Canada has seen the most unbelievable deterioration of freedom.
00:00:05.960 We thought in the beginning, oh, it was two weeks to flatten the curve, but it has turned
00:00:09.200 into a virtual tyranny with Canadians suffering the loss of all sorts of freedoms, freedom
00:00:15.040 to associate, freedom to move, freedom to religious worship.
00:00:18.700 It is unbelievable what's been happening.
00:00:21.320 What about our Charter of Rights and Freedoms?
00:00:23.040 This protection which Canadians, all Canadians are supposed to have.
00:00:25.960 Well, I'm going to tell you what about that.
00:00:27.100 We have with us one of the drafters of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, Brian
00:00:31.500 Packford.
00:00:31.940 He is the former Premier of Newfoundland.
00:00:34.480 We are so privileged to have him.
00:00:35.580 You're going to want to stay tuned to this and listen to this foremost voice on the loss
00:00:39.960 of freedoms and rights in our country.
00:00:41.860 Stay tuned.
00:00:57.100 Let's begin, as we always do, with the sign of the cross.
00:01:03.520 In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
00:01:07.820 Amen.
00:01:08.620 Mr. Packford, welcome to the John Henry Weston Show.
00:01:10.980 Thank you for joining us.
00:01:12.880 Thank you for having me.
00:01:14.040 It's a pleasure.
00:01:15.720 It is an unbelievable time.
00:01:17.820 You've been out speaking on the speaking circuit, as it were, as many of these rallies take
00:01:22.400 place, hundreds of thousands of Canadians out in really a joyful mood right now because
00:01:28.340 they feel this great sense of, well, I guess catharsis in some ways because the truckers
00:01:34.400 are there and they're finally fighting for freedom.
00:01:36.460 It's a beautiful thing.
00:01:38.080 You've been at quite a few of these rallies.
00:01:39.780 I think you're one of the featured speakers in a big way because of your background.
00:01:44.500 Tell us, if you would, your central message to people right now.
00:01:48.280 As we speak, our democracy is in decline, is in grave danger of that becoming a permanent
00:01:55.760 condition.
00:01:56.900 And that is because all 14 governments of Canada, the 10 provinces, the three territories, and
00:02:03.360 the federal government have all enacted measures which violate the provisions of the Charter
00:02:10.380 of Rights and Freedoms, especially provisions number two, which is freedom of speech, freedom
00:02:16.840 of religion, freedom of conscience, freedom of expression, freedom of press, freedom of assembly,
00:02:24.040 freedom of association.
00:02:28.020 These are all very sacred freedoms that have only been in writing for less than 41 years.
00:02:37.660 We're now in our 41st year of the Charter.
00:02:41.400 In the United States, they've had a Bill of Rights since 1791, 231 years ago.
00:02:48.180 So this whole notion of our written Charter of Rights and Freedoms for individuals is rather
00:02:56.100 new to us.
00:02:58.020 And this is why over the last two years, it's taken a while to galvanize Canadians to understanding
00:03:05.080 what really is at stake.
00:03:07.160 Section six of the Charter talks about mobility rights, the right of you and me and any Canadian
00:03:14.500 to go anywhere in Canada and to leave Canada.
00:03:18.660 It's quite clear.
00:03:19.920 Nobody can mistake the meaning of that sentence.
00:03:24.400 And then we have section seven of the Charter, which says the right to life, liberty, and the
00:03:32.540 security of the person.
00:03:34.200 Once again, pretty important words and pretty hard to misinterpret.
00:03:39.540 Pretty hard to misinterpret.
00:03:41.060 You have the right to life.
00:03:42.440 You have the right to the security of the person.
00:03:44.720 You have the right to liberty.
00:03:46.380 Okay?
00:03:47.420 And security of the person in this particular case is extremely important because what that
00:03:51.640 means is that you cannot be coerced into taking something to your person that you don't
00:03:58.720 agree with.
00:03:59.380 You have security of the person.
00:04:00.740 You're in control of your body.
00:04:02.900 That's what security of the person means or it means nothing if it doesn't mean that.
00:04:07.640 And then a fourth section of the Charter, section 15, which talks about you and I and all Canadians
00:04:13.880 have the right to equality before the law.
00:04:17.020 Well, as I sit here with you this morning, there are certain places in my little city that
00:04:21.180 I live in where I cannot go where other Canadians can go.
00:04:25.840 And that's blatant, you know, equality of the person is not being honored here because I
00:04:35.600 am being discriminated against and don't have the same equality as another Canadian.
00:04:40.100 These are pretty precious rights.
00:04:41.860 And what people fail to understand up until now, I think, that these rights, these freedoms
00:04:47.600 and these rights were not put in a federal act.
00:04:50.820 They weren't put in a provincial act.
00:04:53.520 This is the difference.
00:04:55.120 A constitution is a glorious document, which is the glue that keeps the country together.
00:05:00.200 It's a national document, not a federal document, not a provincial document.
00:05:05.340 It is a national document for all of Canada.
00:05:08.780 If the federal government passes a law tomorrow, most often it will only apply to places that
00:05:14.880 the federal government has control over, provincial government the same way.
00:05:19.380 And so, therefore, that doesn't apply to all Canadians.
00:05:22.060 For example, the Bill of Rights that people talk about in 1960 that Prime Minister John
00:05:26.980 Diefenbaker brought in, the first time, by the way, that in writing, Canadians had an
00:05:33.860 acknowledgement that individual rights and freedoms were important, but it only applied
00:05:38.500 to federal jurisdiction.
00:05:40.120 It didn't apply to provincial jurisdiction.
00:05:43.000 And besides which, it was only in the federal parliament, which could be changed very easily.
00:05:47.860 So we thought 41 years ago that by putting it in the constitution of our country, it would
00:05:55.400 be away from easy change by capricious governments and political parties who got a majority in
00:06:02.780 the House of Commons, it could change it easily.
00:06:05.780 By putting it in the constitution, it gave it a magic, it gave it a sacredness, it gave
00:06:11.260 it a permanence.
00:06:14.180 Chief Justice Bork of the United States, when he was minister and solicitor general in the
00:06:20.700 United States, he wrote a book in which he talked about the constitution, and he talked
00:06:25.860 about a constitution possessing permanent values.
00:06:31.160 Just about every other scholar anywhere in the world where there's a Western democracy,
00:06:35.140 they talk about constitutions.
00:06:36.800 That's what a constitution is.
00:06:38.260 It has permanence.
00:06:40.380 And sustainability.
00:06:42.680 Right?
00:06:42.860 But what's happened in Canada is, is that governments have been looking upon the constitution
00:06:48.980 as just another federal act or another provincial act that they can so easily change.
00:06:54.460 They really haven't addressed the fundamentals of what a constitution is.
00:06:58.940 Remember, we had the BNA Act that formed us in 1867.
00:07:03.580 And outside of some amendments, there was no big change to the constitution until we did it.
00:07:09.300 All of the other first ministers passed away, unfortunately, in 1981-82.
00:07:14.960 That was the next big change.
00:07:17.700 And so we lived under British common law and unwritten law for a long period of time.
00:07:24.160 But we understood in 81-82 what we were doing.
00:07:27.440 And there had been a movement underfoot since Stephen Baker's Bill of Rights to get that to
00:07:31.820 apply to all Canadians.
00:07:33.600 And that's why we did what we did in 1981-82.
00:07:37.100 This is why it's so important, this context, to give this context.
00:07:40.900 It wasn't done in isolation.
00:07:43.100 It wasn't done in the heat of the moment.
00:07:46.600 17 months of negotiation this took before we got the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
00:07:51.940 And in between there, the Prime Minister of the day left the table and tried to do it
00:07:55.880 unilaterally and lost in court and had to come back to the table.
00:07:59.960 People forget that.
00:08:01.620 He lost in court.
00:08:02.800 His Charter of Rights and Freedoms and his patriation agreement went up in flames.
00:08:08.560 It was when he sat down again with the premiers and nine premiers and the Prime Minister signed
00:08:13.740 the Constitution Act of 1982 in which the Charter of Rights and Freedoms is found.
00:08:18.660 So that's the other point.
00:08:22.100 You asked me what's really important in the message, and it is that the Charter provisions
00:08:27.260 are being violated.
00:08:28.140 But here's another part of the Charter that's being violated, and this one is most egregious
00:08:34.480 and the most least talked about, even by the judges so far who have ruled on the Charter
00:08:40.500 in relation to these pandemic measures, two judges.
00:08:43.940 And here's what they haven't even acknowledged.
00:08:46.540 The first words of the Charter are not Section 1.
00:08:51.360 The first words of the Charter are, whereas this nation is founded on the supremacy of God
00:09:00.060 and the rule of law.
00:09:02.820 And after it is a colon, the grammatical notation colon, not a period.
00:09:10.020 In other words, everything flows after this.
00:09:12.860 And so the Charter is supposed to be considered in the context of what?
00:09:18.520 The supremacy of God and the rule of law.
00:09:22.160 You know what?
00:09:22.800 You find no mention of that in some of the judges' decisions that have been made to date,
00:09:27.280 which is a complete abdication of their responsibilities to when they begin to do their dissertation
00:09:33.400 on their decision, they put it into the context of what the Constitution actually says.
00:09:40.320 What are the principles that are supposed to guide this document?
00:09:44.400 And I'm going to be speaking more and more about that over the next while,
00:09:49.480 because even when the mandates are lifted, you understand.
00:09:53.080 That doesn't change that the Charter was broken.
00:09:56.340 That doesn't change that the Charter was broken.
00:09:58.380 And we have the biggest job we got after the mandates are over is to see that the Charter
00:10:03.360 is restored.
00:10:04.600 And I'm doing that through a lawsuit against the federal government on their mobility rights.
00:10:09.500 And other Canadians are doing it as well.
00:10:11.880 And so we've got to restore the Charter.
00:10:15.120 Otherwise, when these mandates are off, we have lost a big chunk of our democracy.
00:10:21.020 Very interesting that you mentioned this because, I mean, you're so right in that if this just,
00:10:27.320 OK, they lift the mandates now and everybody forgets it, we can go on and on, we've lost
00:10:30.640 a lot of freedom.
00:10:31.520 One of the things people have talked about is the need to make people basically bring justice
00:10:38.460 to this situation, because otherwise the same thing can be done in who knows how little time
00:10:44.120 from now, because there was no justice.
00:10:46.580 There was no correction of anybody who went through these steps and took away our freedoms.
00:10:51.540 There has to be some kind of accounting for that abuse of the Charter.
00:10:56.540 If we don't correct it now, it will be easier next time because they'll use this as a precedent.
00:11:03.220 And judges and our jurisprudence, our justice system in the Western world does look to precedents.
00:11:11.180 So if two years from now, a government declares an emergency, right, anywhere in Canada, any
00:11:17.780 of the governments or all of them like they've done this time.
00:11:20.040 And, of course, that's a dubious thing in the, you know, what are the conditions that
00:11:26.400 establish an emergency to the point where you can take people's freedoms away, right,
00:11:32.480 to the point where you can take people's freedoms away.
00:11:35.460 Well, if this is not corrected now, and as I say, a government declares an emergency,
00:11:39.940 they will defend their decisions under that emergency and violate the provisions of the
00:11:48.180 Charter and refer back to the precedent.
00:11:51.200 They won't even have to get back to the Charter.
00:11:54.580 And so, therefore, and a judge adjudicating on this will use this precedent as one reason
00:12:01.160 why the governments are okay in doing what they did.
00:12:03.380 So this is a very, very slippery slope we're on right now.
00:12:09.180 And unless we correct, that's why I took the legal action myself.
00:12:12.720 I was talking a lot, and most people would say, okay, you talked a lot.
00:12:16.120 What about walking the walk?
00:12:18.120 Okay, I've walked the walk.
00:12:20.540 My name is on a lethal suit against the government of Canada.
00:12:24.620 So, and I thought that was very important being the last, you know, living first minister
00:12:28.580 who helped craft the Charter to do that.
00:12:30.780 This is a fundamental time in our history, because if we do not correct the situation,
00:12:38.560 it will be easier the next time to play and fiddle with our freedoms, and there will be no more.
00:12:44.460 They're at the whim of any government that comes along.
00:12:47.440 It does very much seem like it's a divine appointment for you, and a message to everybody else.
00:12:53.680 This is not the end of our fights when the mandates are lifted.
00:12:56.400 It's the beginning, and we need to keep pushing.
00:12:58.540 One of the things that's really stunning, I think, to everybody who's watching what's
00:13:03.980 going on, and you have a real insight in this as well, apart from being one of the drafters
00:13:09.780 and pastors of the Charter, you were a premier, and that's why you were doing that, of course.
00:13:13.960 But as a premier, we're watching right now, the premiers, all of them, no matter their so-called
00:13:21.700 political stripe, all engage in this same thing.
00:13:24.460 It's been stunning to see, and it's getting even worse.
00:13:28.560 The talk about the closing of interprovincial borders to only those who are vaccinated
00:13:35.380 is actually being seriously considered by the—it's so baffling.
00:13:40.980 But I thought, just from your experience as a premier, what do you make of that?
00:13:44.980 When I put it in the context of what's happened in the last two weeks, two years,
00:13:49.040 they've gotten away with all of this.
00:13:51.940 And so I think they feel fairly comfortable that it can move even further.
00:13:56.620 I mean, this is a great—and so thank God for the trucker's convoy, because they have
00:14:01.240 highlighted it to all the nation and brought the Charter to bear on what's going on.
00:14:07.660 They are arguing that their Charter rights are being violated.
00:14:10.460 Every public meeting I have, by the way, there's an absolute hunger for understanding the Charter.
00:14:18.300 They now know we have a Charter.
00:14:20.380 They know it's a young Charter.
00:14:22.860 They know it's extremely important for them and for their children.
00:14:25.920 I've had families turn up.
00:14:27.460 Last week at a public meeting just outside of Campbell River, I had mothers with their
00:14:32.720 three children, like nine and six and five years old, who sat on the floor because
00:14:38.920 the place was blocked, who sat on the floor for two hours and listened to what I had to
00:14:45.280 say.
00:14:45.800 And their mother told me afterwards they had been teaching their children about the Charter
00:14:50.440 rights and that these are freedoms that you will have when you grow up, right, that are
00:14:55.000 very important for your life, for your future, and for your family, if you have a family when
00:14:59.700 you grow up.
00:15:00.240 And the little boy, I think it was about nine years old, the mother asked if I could take
00:15:04.580 a picture of me and my wife with the children.
00:15:08.920 And I said, sure.
00:15:10.840 So they got around me and the boy was on my right side.
00:15:14.580 I won't forget this.
00:15:15.980 I'll never forget this.
00:15:17.160 As the mother was getting ready with the camera, I looked down at him and he looked up at me.
00:15:23.660 This is after two and a half hours.
00:15:26.480 And I said, thank you, young man, for being such, you know, so well behaved after two, two
00:15:35.160 and a half hours.
00:15:36.600 And he looked up at me and said, no, sir.
00:15:38.940 No, no, no.
00:15:40.240 Thank you for explaining to us how important this is.
00:15:45.900 Imagine.
00:15:46.300 So that'll just give you an idea that there are families out there, mothers and fathers,
00:15:53.600 uncles and aunts and grandmothers and grandfathers and so on, who have sees and now understand.
00:16:00.260 Some of them did not three months ago, four months ago.
00:16:03.280 But they listened to some of my interviews, like what I'm doing with you now.
00:16:09.020 And when I say it seems to me one of the things when I say we don't all, you know, groups are very important.
00:16:17.500 Organizations are very important.
00:16:19.400 But it should never cloud the importance of the individual.
00:16:22.440 And very often when I say, you know, there are no two snowflakes alike, there are no two individuals alike.
00:16:30.900 We are all unique.
00:16:33.600 We are all individuals.
00:16:35.720 And that's what makes a country great is because we have individuals.
00:16:40.700 And it's through individuality that we get creativity, that we get innovation.
00:16:46.400 That's what makes that work, that people feel that they can pursue their own goals and be protected by their constitution.
00:16:57.060 And so I think there's a better understanding now, at least amongst the people that, you know,
00:17:02.660 I'm happy to give my point of view on, that during and after these meetings, and even when I start,
00:17:11.760 there's an electricity in the room.
00:17:13.500 So they're just pleased.
00:17:16.320 And I say to them, you know, this might take me 30 or 40 minutes.
00:17:20.020 And then you can ask any question you want, any comment you want.
00:17:22.820 And I won't leave until everybody has had their questions and comments heard.
00:17:27.820 Okay.
00:17:28.020 So if you think I'm going to take up some of your time, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
00:17:32.660 That's why you were an individual.
00:17:34.280 That's why I'm here.
00:17:35.980 And they say, sir, take as long as you like.
00:17:40.080 We want to listen.
00:17:41.080 We want to hear.
00:17:42.000 That's amazing because, you know, I've been at many political rallies and I've been,
00:17:46.900 I've given hundreds and hundreds of speeches all over the world.
00:17:49.540 I've given speeches to the House of Lords in England.
00:17:53.180 I've given speeches down in the United Nations to committees there.
00:17:57.900 I've given speeches to the Washington press club.
00:18:01.620 I've given speeches in Norway and Iceland and Germany and Rome and all over the world.
00:18:06.200 One of the big questions, I think, for a segment of Canadians that consider themselves pro-life, they call themselves, and we're very proud to be Canadians and pro-life.
00:18:18.700 The charter was made in 1983.
00:18:22.380 And by 83, we already had abortion legislation in Canada.
00:18:27.500 It was before 88 when the abortion laws were struck down.
00:18:31.280 But we've always wondered, how does that work in the charter that the individual rights of the child in the womb are denied?
00:18:40.820 And yet we come up with a charter of rights and freedoms at the same time.
00:18:45.100 And so that's always been a great confusion.
00:18:47.260 How does that work together and fit together in a society that has a charter of rights and freedoms that looks to individual rights?
00:18:54.540 It doesn't work very well together.
00:18:56.200 It's one of the unbelievable responsibilities that a journalist has.
00:19:03.020 We recognize early on is that the fathers of America in the founding of their constitution, which is usually recognized by most scholars looking at constitutions in the Western democracy as perhaps, for want of a better word, better than the others.
00:19:22.260 As being quite close to what you're going to get.
00:19:26.000 But even there, there is room for interpretation.
00:19:29.000 You can't write everything into a constitution.
00:19:31.260 That's the whole nature of a constitution.
00:19:33.380 It's a document of principles, which then are interpreted by the judiciary.
00:19:38.940 And that's one of the strengths and weaknesses at the same time of what you just described, is because you have that dichotomy, if you will.
00:19:47.600 Or you have that friction between, on the one hand, security of the person, life and liberty, and then you have, on the other hand, abortion legislation.
00:19:57.940 One of the things that's happened in our democracy over the years, and the Americans weren't aware of it long before us because we didn't have the charter, is that they grew up.
00:20:08.520 And this is very important for people to understand, in law schools, and then they became judges later, this notion of the living tree of jurisprudence, the living tree of interpreting the constitution.
00:20:22.500 In other words, the constitution is subject to change by the judiciary without the people being involved.
00:20:30.780 A very vocal opposition to that is, for example, Senator Ted Cruz in the United States, who is a constitutional scholar in his own right, and has appeared before as a lawyer.
00:20:46.200 In Canada, we have gone more on the living tree side of things than they have in the United States.
00:20:53.760 And that's one of our problems.
00:20:56.320 Beverly MacLachlan, for example, the chief justice of a number of years ago, was a very strong proponent of this living tree doctrine.
00:21:04.540 And she did a lot to perpetrate it amongst the other judges, but just not her alone.
00:21:08.820 There are many judges who are the same way.
00:21:11.420 And so if people like me who are originalists, sure, change the constitution.
00:21:16.880 There is a formula for changing the constitution.
00:21:19.540 Use it.
00:21:20.240 Don't do it through the courts.
00:21:21.720 The courts are there to interpret, not to make law.
00:21:26.700 And where the bridge has been crossed is they've moved from interpretation to the interpretation as such that is really making new law.
00:21:37.500 And they have crossed the Rubicon on that.
00:21:40.280 And it's going to take a lot of people who view the constitution like you and I to bring back that originalist document.
00:21:48.820 And we're not saying and saying that, that the constitution can't be changed.
00:21:52.500 Just do it legitimately through the people, because we thought that's what democracy was all about.
00:21:57.900 It must be the people to change it, not the judges, not the unelected judges.
00:22:03.160 And that's where the rub comes in today on the question that you raised.
00:22:07.120 They often talk a lot about judicial activism in the United States, but it appears we have it worse in Canada.
00:22:13.000 As we close up here, I wanted your perspective as really the last surviving, you know, drafter of the Charter of Rights and Freedom of the Constitution, the 83.
00:22:22.160 What's your take on Canada right now?
00:22:26.300 This has been a stunning two years for everybody.
00:22:29.480 But for you, as someone who's been around, not only just been around living, but been around working in the sphere, right in the heart of things, being a premier, being one of the drafters, watching all this go through.
00:22:42.500 What has this been like for you?
00:22:44.520 Where do you think Canada's at and where do you see us going?
00:22:46.980 Obviously, because I've become so active on this file now over the last two years, I'm deeply concerned and very disturbed by the direction of our country.
00:22:58.340 I was disturbed before this even.
00:23:00.540 I've written extensively about it over six years now.
00:23:04.400 I've had my own blog and I've been writing about Canada's economic position, Canada's productivity position, Canada's signing of international agreements.
00:23:14.480 And whereby very, very, shall I say subtly, some of our sovereignty has been eroded to some international tribunal or international organization under a trade agreement.
00:23:30.420 And I think this is wrong.
00:23:31.440 And so on a number of fronts, we are reducing our sovereignty as a nation at the same time as we are reducing our democracy as a nation.
00:23:45.940 OK, the democracies, the charter rights and freedoms and the sovereignty is where we're no longer an independent nation state in the full meaning of that word.
00:23:55.780 We have allowed some of our sovereignty to go to international organizations.
00:23:59.780 If this continues, then the idea that Mr. Trudeau has and his deputy minister, deputy prime minister and others like the prime minister of New Zealand, the president of France, Mr. Macron, they all went to the World Economic School of Leaders.
00:24:19.120 And the World Economic School of Leaders means really what they're teaching there is that we need a world government, that we need to bring all the countries together, dilute their sovereignty and have a more international sort of United Nations government for the world, which will be dominated and organized by a lot of unelected people.
00:24:43.180 Well, Mr. Beckford, God willing, your suit is successful because that really is our future in a way in Canada depends on it, depends on holding to account those who have stripped us of our freedoms unjustly and gone against the charter in doing so.
00:25:00.940 God bless you. And thank you for joining us today.
00:25:03.200 God bless you. And I'm on my way to Ottawa tomorrow to speak to the truckers.
00:25:08.220 Amazing. Amazing. Amazing. And God bless all of you. We'll see you next time on the John Henry Weston Show.
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00:27:00.280 Again, I'm encouraging you to join us on Parler, MeWe, Rumble, and on our email list.
00:27:06.680 You can find all the direct links in the description of this video.
00:27:11.500 May God bless you and keep you, and we are so thankful that you've chosen to follow and support LifeSite News.
00:27:17.540 I'm John Henry Weston, co-founder and editor-in-chief of LifeSite News.