Canceled priest founder says bishops target clergy who are 'too conservative'
Summary
In this episode of the John Henry Weston Show, Father John Lovell joins us to talk about how priests are being kicked out of ministry and how you can help to keep them in the ministry. Father Lovell is a priest in the Diocese of Rockford, Illinois, who has been removed from active ministry for the past eight years. He is the leader of the group, the "Canceled Priests Coalition" and has been involved in the fight to restore his good name.
Transcript
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all throughout the church. For the past eight years, there has been mayhem. No more so than
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in the area of cancel culture coming into the church. And it's not that normal cancel culture
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that we see. It's the most faithful, the most ardent believers in Jesus Christ who are being
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canceled, who are being shoved out of active priesthood. It's unbelievable and it's happening
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everywhere. We have whole groups of these priests, not only all over the world, but gathered in
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America. And there's a group that calls themselves the Canceled Priests Coalition. They're headed up by
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Father John Lovell, and he's with us today, to hear about them and how you can help them in their
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priesthood to not only survive, but to thrive because they're actually the backbone of what's
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going on right now. And they're going to keep us faithful. This is John Henry Weston Show. Stay tuned.
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Before we begin, let me just remind you that August 17th is coming up very quickly,
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and that is LifeSite's 25th anniversary gala. Go to gala25.lifesitenews.com for more information.
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We hope to see you in Naples, Florida. Father John Lovell, great to be with you.
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Thank you, John Henry. Thank you for having me on as we are recording, at least, on your feast day,
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Very good. Thank you, Father. If you wouldn't mind, launch this off with the Son of the Cross. That
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would be awesome. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. Glory be to
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the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall
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be, world without end. Amen. St. Henry. Pray for us. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of
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the Holy Ghost. Amen. Amen. So, Father Lovell, it's quite the time for the Church. It is
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something that, well, obviously, I've never seen before in my lifetime. I would contend
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probably the most disturbing time the Church has ever seen, and that says a lot in 2,000
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year history. But tell us a little bit about yourself to start with.
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I'm Father John Lovell. I'm a priest of the Diocese of Rockford. I'm originally from Chicago,
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Illinois. I did study for the Archdiocese for a while, but the college seminary at the time,
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which is now closed, kicked me out. I was too conservative, and they actually said that.
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And Cardinal George thought, no, he should continue on the path to priesthood, and so he
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sent me to the Diocese of Rockford, who at the time was being shepherded by Bishop Thomas
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G. Doran. Went to Mount St. Mary's Seminary. Got, in my opinion, a very good education, and
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was ordained in 2007. I've served both as parochial vicar, high school teacher, associate
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vocation director. I was administrator of a parish for a while, and in 2011, Bishop Doran
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sent me for further studies at Dominican House of Studies in Washington, D.C. That same academic
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year, at least, Bishop Malloy was consecrated Bishop of Rockford, and about six weeks after
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he was made bishop, he removed me from ministry. He tried to suspend me. Rome overturned that
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immediately, and then he basically withdrew his original decree, and the very next day issued a
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new decree restricting my ministry in a non-penal, non-judicial way. And when you discover what that
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means, John Henry, let my canon lawyers know. And so for the last 10 years, we've been fighting
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both on the local level, but also in Rome to restore my good name, because as you well know,
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dioceses and priests especially are very public figures. And so when we get removed, a lot of times
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people think, well, there must have been a reason for that. And I can tell you right now, in the
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Diocese of Rockford, Bishop Malloy has removed over 12 priests that have no accusation, no allegation
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against us, and he just simply removed us because we're not yes-men, or we're too orthodox, we're too
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conservative. And we discovered over the years, I've been out now 10 years, this is my 10th anniversary
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this month of being out of ministry, that this is a pandemic across the country, that there are
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priests being canceled. And oftentimes people will say to me, well, isn't it, aren't some canceled
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priests, isn't it good that they're out of ministry? And I always like to remind people that priests that
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have done something wrong are not canceled. When they've done something wrong and they've been
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Absolutely. So this is totally fascinating because here you are, you're now heading up,
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if you will, a kind of group of canceled priests, but most of whom have come along in the last few
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number of years. But you yourself have already faced this. It's kind of like the pro-life movement
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when the whole wide world sees cancel culture now. The pro-life movement's been saying, yeah,
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that for us is pretty normal. And in your case, you've got this long history. So question for
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you right off the start then. This cancel culture, which comes from a kind of a modernism in the
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church, it's been around for a long time. You've experienced it so early on. And yet even under
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under good bishops, that's what's somewhat stunning. How did that happen to you in Chicago when Cardinal
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George was there? He knew it was his seminary. How come he didn't fix it at the time?
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You know, that's an excellent question. As many people know, but maybe not every listener,
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Cardinal George came from academia. I mean, he was a professor and he had doctorates both in
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philosophy and theology. Many thought that he would replace Ratzinger as head of the CDF when
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he was made, when Pope Benedict was made Pope. But Cardinal George had the ability to turn Mundelein
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seminary and the college seminary at the time, which was still up and running, into a powerhouse of
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academia. And I think he thought that the Chicago machine, it's not only in politics that there's a
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Chicago machine, but it's also in the diocese in the church of Chicago, was just too strong. And so
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while he did a lot of good reforms at the seminary at Mundelein and brought in some very good people
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and very good professors, some of them who are still there, he did not want to challenge that
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machine. And we see that especially in Father Flager and in others across the archdiocese. But I think he
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decided to pick his battles. And I think he decided that sometimes it's best not to die on a certain
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hill. And, you know, in hindsight, we could say that perhaps he made the wrong decisions. I can tell you
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this right now, I am fortunate that I'm no longer in the Archdiocese of Chicago because of the current
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So, yeah. Well, Cardinal Cupich kind of fits right in with Father Flager and all of this insanity that's
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going on in the church to understand that there are the likes of Father Flager. If you don't know
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who he is, look him up on LifeSite News. Father James Martin, all of these priests who, under JP2,
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let's say, would have been regarded as heretical or so far out there as to be not even Catholic at
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all, they're mainstream. They're not only mainstream in terms of Father James Martin. It's unreal. He's
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hoisted up to the Vatican, personal audiences with the Pope on pontifical councils, even getting dubia
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answered by the Pope. And yet so many of you good holy priests are being cancelled, removed from
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ministry. It's an unbelievable situation. What do you get from the priests who have experienced this,
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the ones that are truly cancelled priests, the ones who are faithful? Walk us through, if you will,
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your experience with them. What did they experience when they get cancelled and how do they deal with it?
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I think first and foremost is shock. Just an hour ago, I was speaking to a priest who was in the
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process of being cancelled. And he told me, he says he's suffering from post-traumatic stress. And
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that's what I think happens to many of us, because we just kind of go into shock. They cut our pay.
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Sometimes they don't give us any pay. They cut off our insurance, possibly. This is what's happening
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across the board. And a lot of times, priests, especially Orthodox priests, want to try to be
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obedient and want to try to listen and try to work this out, either with the bishop or with Rome in
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the appeal. And what's sad is, is that what I discovered over the 10 years of battling this
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is that Rome does not want to interfere with the bishop unless he's doing something gravely wrong
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or financially wrong. He will not, they will not necessarily interfere. In fact, with my case,
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Rome basically said, well, a bishop can remove a priest for any reason or for no reason at all,
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but it can only be temporary. But then they never said what temporary is. And so I'm going on 10 years
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now. I'll be 42 years old next week. And I've spent pretty much all of my 30s and now going into my 40s
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out of ministry. And this is not what the people of God paid for. You know, the people of God paid for
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these priests to go to seminary, which is not cheap. And when we get kicked out, what I've noticed is
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that they want to trust the system. They want to work with the system. And then they come to discover
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that the system is really going against them. The bishop does not care. And so I often have to tell
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priests, do not go see the bishop by himself. If he has counsel present, you have counsel present. If he has a
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canon lawyer present, you have a canon lawyer present. I said, be nice, be charitable, be respectful,
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but realize that as a priest, you have rights, especially as a diocesan priest, which is
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completely different than a religious priest who took a vow of obedience. I took a promise of
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obedience to be a coworker with my bishop, not to be an underling, not to be a Jesuit novice while he's
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acting as a Jesuit superior, is that we're supposed to be coworkers working together. And so I often tell
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priests, we're here for you to make sure that you're able to pay for your canon lawyer. You're able to pay for
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your attorney, that you have a place to live if you need a place to live, that you have money to buy
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food, that you don't have to worry if you have to go to the doctor. These are the things that the
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Coalition for Canceled Priests strives to do day in and day out. I want to mention too, LifeSite News
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is doing a life funder, our form of a kind of a GoFundMe, a crowdfunding platform. And we put that up
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basically because there's lots of places that get cancelled by GoFundMe. And so we started LifeFunder.
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We have initiated a life funder for the Canceled Priests Coalition. So please go to LifeFunder.com
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and search for the Canceled Priests LifeFunder and you'll find it there. You'll be able to support
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Father Lovell and all the great work he's doing for all of these priests. So Father, we're dealing with
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this in the church right now in a big way. What happened to you 10 years ago is now actually
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getting more frequent. What have you seen in the United States going on on this? And have you
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communed with any of the other communities of Canceled Priests in the larger world?
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Yeah, I want to say first, John Henry, that there's probably hundreds if not thousands of
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Canceled Priests across the country. We're helping right now about 40 priests across the country and
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the world. We don't have too many international right now. But I'm a little surprised that it's
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so low in numbers that we're only hoping 40 right now in this last year since we were only one year
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old. But I will tell you this is that many priests, again, they're in that shock and they don't know
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where to turn. They don't know. I mean, they don't know us from Adam. And so they're concerned, you know,
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do I trust these people? What are they trying to do? And my message to them is yes. I mean,
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you know, we're here to help you to make sure that you have a place to live, that you have money to
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eat. And so often what I find is when I speak to these Canceled Priests is that they're just saddened
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by how they're treated because their bishop is no longer treating them as a spiritual son. It's no
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longer a father-son relationship. It's an adversarial relationship where the bishop sees
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his priests as a potential lawsuit. And it's sad to say whether they fall on the liberal or
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conservative spectrum, most bishops are like this. They listen to their attorneys before they listen
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to their priests. This is what we've discovered since Dallas 20 years ago, is that the bishops are
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more concerned about avoiding a lawsuit than being charitable and doing what is right. And I hate
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saying that. Okay. I want to be a loyal son to my spiritual father, who is the successor of the
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apostles. All right. I want the bishop to be a bishop. And so oftentimes people will say to me,
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well, you're just out there bashing the bishops. I say, no, we are protecting priests. Now, if we
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indirectly, indirectly criticize a bishop, it is just simply because that bishops need to realize that
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they do not have carte blanche control over the funds that are given to them by the people. And
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they don't have carte blanche control over the priests. Now, sometimes it might seem like that.
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And so what I've noticed, especially in the last couple of years, since the summer of shame, as it's
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been now known as in 2018, when Theodore McCarrick was exposed, is that many of the laity are just getting
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fed up. You know, they realize that many of these bishops covered for McCarrick and for others,
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and that there was a homosexual network going on, not just in the clergy, meaning the presbyterates,
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but also in the episcopacy itself. And this was a serious problem. And I think people were also fed up
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at the poor response. And again, this is all the bishops of the United States and Canada
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that basically shut down all the churches during COVID. It's one thing to say, look, we're going to
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not require you to come to mass on Sundays. Okay, we're going to dispense you from that.
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So another thing, though, to lock the doors, and this is what's happening here in Chicago,
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they were literally locking the doors of the church, not allowing people to even enter
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and visit our Lord. And then when they started up again, these silly things like you have to
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receive communion on the hand, and even trying to tell traditional Latin mass communities,
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you have to receive communion on the hand. I have a very good friend, not 30 minutes from here,
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he's a fraternity priest. And he basically said, all right, my people are not going to receive
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on the hand. So he basically celebrated mass with this congregation. And he was the only one
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that received communion. And so what I think what you're seeing is, is that the laity, whether they
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go to a Novostoro church or to a traditional parish, is they're just fed up. They're just fed up
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with what's going on. They're fed up with giving their money to these dioceses that are using it to
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to help fund Democrat Party initiatives, and they're just tired of it.
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How does a priest who is canceled continue to live out their ministry? They've been charged by Christ
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with this ministry, as have you. What ways do canceled priests still remain active?
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First and foremost, and I always tell priests this, especially if they get down and out,
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continue celebrating mass. The greatest thing that priests do, whether he has a thousand people at
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mass, or if he's just there alone by himself celebrating mass, is that offering up the
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sacrifice of the mass daily is the most important thing that a priest does. And then the next thing
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is, and again, this is the reason we have the coalition, make sure you have fraternity with other
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priests. If they're active priests that are supporting you, great. If they're other canceled
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priests, great. Get together. Have a meal together. Break bread. You know, one thing that the coalition
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tries to do every year, we've only done it once so far, but we're hoping to do it every year,
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is have a retreat so that canceled priests can come together. There could be fraternity,
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and that is the most important thing. I always tell priests, stick with the bravery. You know,
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that is so important to keep praying. Yes, you're suffering in silence sometimes,
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but sometimes those are the most important things. And I always want to tell, especially
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the listeners here, you know, when a priest is removed, and I'm not technically suspended,
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as I said at the beginning, I'm restricted in a non-penal, non-judicial way, whatever that means,
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is that people have to realize that for a priest not to be able to hear confessions,
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for a priest not to be able to preach, okay, is tantamount to a husband being denied being with
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his wife. You know, you can't do that and have a healthy relationship, okay? A man and a wife might
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love each other, but if you separate them and say, you can't speak to each other, you can't see each
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other, after a while, that is going to have an effect on that relationship. No matter how strong
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a relationship they have, no matter how much they love them, if you separate them and segregate them
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and not allow them to speak to each other, that's going to hurt the marriage. And this is what's
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happening with these priests. So we want to make sure that we give them all the necessary means
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that they can have a fruitful life, even if they can't hear confessions, even if they can't preach
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right now, and hoping one day that they will be able to do that. Absolutely. There's a really hard
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question, Father, that feel free to pass on it if you wish, but I just interviewed a couple weeks
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ago. A priest, also cancelled priest, he was a member of Opus Dei. He's actually way out in Western
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Africa. And he tells me he was cancelled not only from any public ministry, so can't hear confession,
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can't say public mass, therefore can't preach. He was also told he couldn't celebrate a mass
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privately, even by himself. Can that be done? No, it cannot. Now, some canon lawyers I've asked
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this have said that they can stipulate that you can't celebrate a private mass. Others have said,
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no, that is incorrect. We are in contact with that father in Western Africa. It seems like a great
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priest. We do have a little bit of a divide because we don't have anybody in our organization that speaks
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French. And I recall watching him on your show thinking, he's doing a very good job with English.
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And he said it at the beginning that, you know, please forgive him for any mistakes that he might
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make. And, but I always tell priests, they can't stop you from celebrating mass unless you've done
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something seriously wrong. But even then, why would you stop a priest from celebrating mass?
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Absolutely. We're never by ourselves. We have the angels and the saints with us. You know, so I always
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tell priests, you're celebrating mass, continue to offer that sacrifice that has been given to you
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by God. We don't have the right as priests to celebrate the mass, but we do have the duty to
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celebrate mass. That's what I like to always tell people. So we are sinners just like everybody else,
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but what God has entrusted to our hands, and that's why they are anointed, is so important that
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we have to keep doing that. And one thing that I said to many of my canceled priest brethren,
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this is right as COVID was starting, I said, look, they're canceling all these masses in these
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parishes. We got to double up on masses that we say. And I told them, you know, you might have a
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canonist, you might have a bishop who say, well, you can't buy Nate, you can't try Nate, you know,
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celebrating two or three masses in one day. And I said, you know what, it's getting so bad. They're
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cutting off so many masses right now. We have to double up to make up for all those spiritual graces
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that are being lost. Absolutely. So Father, I want to go back to where we started with,
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and that was that you were canceled for no good reason, and your distinction between what a
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canceled priest is compared to those who are in justice, removed, and sanctioned. Because canceled
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is being canceled for doing the right thing and doing nothing wrong. Can you give us some examples of
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why priests are getting canceled? What is the sort of presenting reason that it comes with? And,
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you know, how are they trying to fight? Well, I can tell you this, personally,
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the vicar general and the vicar of clergy at the time in the Diocese of Rockford back in 2010,
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this is two years before Malloy came, started to harass me, calling me in saying, well, you're
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arrogant, you're not pastoral enough, we want to send you for psychological evaluation. And what I
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noticed that this started to happen shortly after I was a whistleblower at the high school I was
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teaching at. I had a young woman who was a student at the high school approached me saying that she
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was being inappropriately touched by a lay woman teacher at the school. And in Illinois, as it is
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in most places, I'm obligated to report that. They were not happy that I reported that. And they,
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while on the outside acted like I did the right thing, they started to really persecute you. They
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moved me, they gave me to a really liberal pastor, who, you know, was stuck in the 1970s.
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They increased my workload, I was doing three jobs, I was a parochial vicar, I was teaching in the high
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school, I was also the associate vocation director, answering to three bosses, all of whom didn't
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understand why I was not giving them my full and undivided attention. And then, you know, they were
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criticizing, well, Father Love was supposed to be doing this, Father Love was supposed to be doing
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that. And so they just started to go after me then. And so a lot of times people are being removed,
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yes, because they want the traditional mass, the priests, so they get removed for that. But many times
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it's because they're standing up for the truth, they're being a whistleblower, they're preaching on
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contraception, they're preaching on the evils of abortion. And a Karen or Susan in the parish, you know,
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calls up the diocese and starts complaining. I know one priest, he's still surprisingly in active
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ministry, he said, the chancery can receive a hundred letters about me, 99 of them are good. But that one
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letter, they'll call me in and ask me about it. That one negative letter from a parishioner, not even
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telling me that they received 99 other letters of praise. And that's how they operate, you know.
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And it's a double standard that we see. You know, you have another podcast with Father James Altman
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in his diocese, he was removed. And again, not suspended, but removed in a non-penal, non-judicial
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way. And then you had Monsignor Burrell, same summer, last summer, removed. He's now back in the
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ministry. And some have to ask, why is that? You know, there's clearly a double standard here.
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And this is why so many of the canceled priests are conservative and orthodox. And by the way,
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I would like listeners to know that we support only priests that affirm the faith and magisterium
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of the church, plain and simple. They have to sign a document, so do all of our employees,
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all of our volunteers, that they affirm the tenets of the faith, plain and simple. So,
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sorry, Father Martins, if you get removed from ministry, we probably are not going to be able
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to help you. That's great, Father. So finally, what can people do? Not only, I know, because I've
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already encouraged people, and I encourage you, please, out there, go to lifefunder.com,
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get on to the Cancel Priests Life Funder and support their work. As you can see, it's amazing.
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But two questions, Father. What else can people do for you? But also, what can the faithful do
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if they have a canceled priest or a priest who's really faithful? Is it good for them to write
00:24:24.380
their bishops one of those letters of praise for their priest? What would you suggest?
00:24:29.260
I always think it is a very good thing psychologically to put your thoughts to paper and to just express
00:24:37.300
in writing why you love this priest, this canceled priest that you're supporting, and send it to the
00:24:43.280
bishop. I always tell people, be polite, be respectful, try to keep it to a page. Bishops don't
00:24:49.500
have the longest attention spans, I've noticed. And so, keep it to a page. Just keep it very simple
00:24:56.340
of how much you love them. Obviously, do that. I always tell people the most important thing you can
00:25:01.920
do is to fast and to pray. That is very important, not just for priests to do, but for the laity. We
00:25:07.540
need to get back to a sense of fasting. And when it comes to helping canceled priests across the
00:25:14.240
country, please go to canceledpriests.org. That's canceled with one L. Priests is plural.org,
00:25:21.100
canceledpriests.org. And you can see how you can help support us, not just with the Life Funder,
00:25:26.900
but with the many initiatives that we have going on. You know, John Henry, one thing that we're doing
00:25:31.020
right now is we're trying to raise money to buy an old Franciscan friary in northwest Indiana so that
00:25:37.340
priests can have a safe house, can have a house of prayer. And we're hoping to restore it because so
00:25:42.100
many, especially here in Illinois and the Midwest, so many of our beautiful churches, beautiful monasteries
00:25:48.420
and friaries are just being shut down and torn down that we're trying to stop that and just preserve
00:25:53.540
our Catholic heritage. So, please go to canceledpriests.org for more information.
00:26:01.980
That's awesome, Father. On behalf of all of LifeSite News, I want to thank you for what you're doing,
00:26:06.840
for standing for the truth, for helping out these shepherds of ours who are being persecuted.
00:26:18.100
Thank you so much, John Henry. Looking forward to meeting you finally in person in August in Naples
00:26:23.580
at the LifeSite event. And thank you for the support that LifeSite has given us this last year
00:26:28.480
and for the amazing apostolate that you have. God bless.
00:26:31.940
Thank you, Father. And God bless all of you. And we'll see you next time.