Catholic Priest Brings EXORCISM to Hollywood ｜ THE RITUAL
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Summary
In this episode of John Henry Weston's show, we discuss the new horror film, The Ritual, starring Al Pacino and directed by David David David Fincher, and its depiction of exorcism in the Catholic liturgy. In this episode, we speak with Aaron Williams, a liturgy expert and consultant on the film, to discuss the similarities between The Ritual and Nefarious and The Exorcist.
Transcript
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Christ is already victorious. And that was one of the conversations I had with Al Pacino about
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exorcism. Well, my friends, welcome to John Henry Weston's show. We have got a very interesting
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show. Right now, there is a movie out called The Ritual. And it's a horror film. It's a film about
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possession and an exorcism. And before you wonder, is it going to be The Exorcist? Well, no.
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In fact, I would think because of its accuracy to what really goes on, it's probably more comparable
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to Nefarious. We'll get into that. But with me today to talk about it is actually the pastor of the
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church where it was filmed. It is the St. Mary's Basilica Church in Natchez, Mississippi, an old
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church, beautiful church for them to film in. And he became the consultant to this film. He is
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himself a liturgy expert. He's doing his PhD in liturgy. So all that's going to be correct for
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the 1928 when it's set. And it's getting panned. It's getting just bashed everywhere by the critics.
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Why? Well, because it's too Catholic. All that and much more on this episode of John Henry Weston's show.
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Father Aaron Williams, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. We always
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begin with the sign of the cross. So if you would lead us, please. Sure. In the name of the Father,
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and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Amen. Thank you, Father. So this is very
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interesting. You know, when we had The Exorcist come out, and it's always like it's a Hollywood
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thing. It's a production, but it's not accurate to the faith. That was one of the criticisms made
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from many of The Exorcists I spoke to because, you know, we're speaking about exorcism, and that's
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become a thing in the past number of years. And when Nefarious came out, it was interesting because
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I talked to The Exorcist, and they said, that is the most accurate depiction of a possession
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that's ever been on film. So I want to just start there. You're the consultant on this,
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and it's just come out now. What is that to you? Would you agree with that depiction of
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Nefarious? And then how would you say that relates to The Ritual?
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So I may surprise you, but I actually have not seen Nefarious, so I can't respond to that.
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But, you know, speaking of this film and working with it and working with a few exorcists within
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my diocese, I feel very confident that what's being depicted as far as the exorcism scenes and
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then just as the inclusional life in general is a very accurate depiction. And there's a heavy
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emphasis in the movie, not only of the depiction of exorcism itself, but the sort of approach the
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church takes to determine if an exorcism is necessary is also done in a very accurate way. So
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that was actually the only reason I was actually willing to be involved in the film, because I
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wanted to ensure if I was going to be part of this, that the church is being depicted in a
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respectful way and that exorcism is not being treated as a sort of theatrical prop, but something
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that is given a level of reverence, you know, because we don't want people to be sort of obsessive
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about exorcism right now because that can be spiritually dangerous. But I do think it's important
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that people understand the reality of evil and how the church responds and through the
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Beautiful. This is also depicted in 1928. So we're talking the old rite of the mass and
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the way they did it back then, which would have been a different thing. So that's something
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you had to look in specifically to see how it was done in the past. I know things have changed
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Yeah. So David, the director of the movie, he's actually Jewish, and he had some knowledge
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that the liturgy had been reformed, but he didn't have a lot of knowledge. He wasn't even
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aware that the mass wasn't said facing the people, for instance, in 1928. So when he first came
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to start planning parts of the movie in the parish, I was having these conversations with
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him. And at one point I said, now, do you want this to be sort of approachable to people
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in the modern day who'd be familiar with the modern liturgy, or do you want it to be accurate
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to 1928? He said, I want it to be accurate to 1928. And so we started explaining the way
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the liturgy was reformed and how the liturgy would have to be celebrated back then. There
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are some small liberties that have to be taken, obviously. So for instance, while elements
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of the mass are done in Latin, the exorisms are shown in English. There are Latin phrases
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in there, but they're done in English, I think, so that people could hear what the prayers
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are being done. And some of the elements have to be abbreviated. So for instance, the litany
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that's recited, and they may recite several names of the saints before there's a response
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given. But generally speaking, it's not only done, I think, accurate for today, but it's
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done accurate as it would have been in 1928. One story I mentioned to some people is when
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the script was being prepared, David approached me and said that there's going to be a scene
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where a priest gives a homily, and he wants the homily to obviously be topical to the
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story, but to be on a passage of scripture that would have been read in mass at this time
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of the year. And he knew there was a cycle of readings, but he didn't know all of that.
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And so, you know, what we found is there's an epistle that falls in the 23rd Sunday after
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Pentecost that would have fallen thereabouts in the time of year. They were looking for
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something that would happen towards the end of October, early November in 1928, and that
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year would have fallen around then. So even those little details, you know, those are the
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kind of things that, you know, me as a liturgy nerd, you know, if you wanted to go back and
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look at it, you'd be able to say, wow, they did their homework. And so I was proud of how
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the director himself particularly wanted to approach this with that sort of level of accuracy.
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And, um, you don't really see that in film that often.
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Okay. Well, let's, let's have a look at the clip of the trailer.
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Brethren, put on the armor of God that you might withstand the devil.
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This is a very troubled woman hissing at the side of a church.
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The woman's parish wishes to attempt a solemn sacrament.
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You mean an exorcism? Would you like me to perform it?
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No. Some poor other soul already has that distinction.
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Something is happening and it's affecting all of us.
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We are the ones that stand in the breach and hold back the darkness.
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It's very much a horror movie, which that's interesting.
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I mean, from the depiction in the trailer there.
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How do we, do you still get the beauty of the church and the beauty of the liturgy, which is exorcism is also a liturgy?
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Does that come out, even though it's a horror film?
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So I've been telling a lot of people, and I did tell the director himself, I don't think the trailer really does the movie justice.
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You know, the movie does have, you know, scary, you may even use the word horrific elements to it because of the subject matter and the reality of evil.
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But my impression as a priest and as a Catholic watching the movie, it's a movie that's a lot more about priesthood, really.
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There's a dynamic that is going through the film where you have two priests, right?
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You have Al Pacino's character, who's the exorcist, Father Theopolis, and you have Dan Stevens' character, who's the parish priest, Father Steiger.
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And, you know, without trying to spoil the movie, Father Steiger is struggling emotionally, not really in his vocation, but he's struggling, and this is really part of the story.
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He's struggling with something in his family, and he's struggling to understand what exactly is happening with this woman and her affliction.
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You sort of see this play out where Father Theopolis, the exorcist, Al Pacino's character, is trying to guide this other priest into a deeper understanding of faith, and how the exorcism itself can't be successful, quote-unquote, without his faith, and that the Lord is trying to work through him.
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And that's a major part of the whole story, and I think it shows the power of the priesthood.
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My favorite line in the whole movie is, it's toward the end, Al Pacino is sitting down with Dan Stevens' character, and he says, Father, you're not a spectator, you're a priest.
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And, you know, we don't have great depictions of priests in the film a lot, so I'm very proud that they took it that direction.
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But to me, that's really a lot more of the story.
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It's a story of the way this affected these sisters in Iowa in 1928, and how the presence of this exorcism in their convent was very troubling to them, and a lot of them didn't want to be involved.
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You know, it was disturbing their life, but then they had this interior desire to help.
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And, you know, so in many ways, I feel like the film is, in microcosms, showing what the church does, right?
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You have a number of very broken people who are coming together, but through the grace of God and the mercy of God, are able to bring about a great good in the life of one person.
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And that's how the church operates every day, right?
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It's God ministers to people through the brokenness of others.
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This is from, this is what sort of sparked my interest, and it's from the reviewer, Ebert.
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I don't know about you, but whenever I watch a movie or go to watch a movie, I look up the reviews.
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If the reviews from the official reviewers are really bad, but the views from the populace, just the regular moviegoers, are like really good,
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And that was the case with, oh, The Passion of the Christ and with Nefarious, with all the good movies that I actually love.
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So the review that I read from Ebert, the Ebert reviewer, this was hilarious.
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Not only does the movie descend into predictably supernatural building-shaking chaos, but it also reveals itself to be flagrantly, stubbornly pro-faith.
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So I think all the Catholics in the crowd, this is what I see.
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But Father, I need maybe a parental warning here.
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Not, you know, some parents are like, I'm never going to take my mom.
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Yeah, I mean, people here have been asking me that.
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I wouldn't bring little children, but I think you could bring older children if parents explain to them what this is about.
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I think it's really important that children go, that they understand that this isn't like Harry Potter, right?
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And to me, the fact that it's real is part of what makes it scarier, right?
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But as Catholics, we also have to understand the reality of evil.
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And that's why I'm really proud of this movie is, yeah, I mean, it's scary, but it's scary in a very authentic way, right?
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And you kind of see that in this film, that he's just trying to turn all of these people against each other.
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And, but yeah, so I think parents, you know, they're safe to bring kids, but you need to explain to them what exorcism is.
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And that is a real thing that happens in the church.
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I had a conversation with Al Pacino about exorcism.
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And he was asking me about the mind of what should a priest mentality be when he enters the room to perform any sacrament.
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And I told him, I said, well, the priest has to first realize that it's not him acting.
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But he also has to realize that Christ is already victorious.
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We're just waiting for him to manifest his victory to us in this moment.
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And that's, you know, that comes through in the movie as well, is the, you know, Pacino's character has just this overwhelming understanding of this is going to be successful.
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And it's going to, it may kill us, but it's going to be successful in the process, right?
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And we're just waiting for him to demonstrate to us, you know, how he's going to show his victory now.
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And I think that's a good lesson for kids to see, honestly.
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I love the fact, honestly, that you got to sort of evangelize Al Pacino because he's in a role and, and, and then he's asking so very seriously.
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The actors are like, they're dead serious about learning their craft and doing exactly.
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And there you are put in this position to give him the truth and beauty of the church.
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That's just, to me, that's a little miracle all by itself.
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And I'll be honest, when, when, when I first got involved in this movie, I didn't even know Al was part of it.
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Um, I found out maybe a month before they, they, they were, he arrived here, he arrived and they said, you know, Al Pacino wants to go to lunch with you.
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So, so, um, so we go and sit down, uh, in the dining room here at the rectory.
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And, um, I was expecting him to ask me sort of just, you know, performative questions.
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He asked, you know, why Christ needed to suffer.
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Why does Christ decide to work through the ministry of priests?
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Why would God allow this woman to suffer in this way?
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And we had a long discussion about the story of the man born blind in scripture.
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And, uh, you know, I raised the question and the Lord asked, why was this man allowed to be born blind?
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And essentially the answer is because God was going to be glorified through him.
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And, um, and that's what's God permitting here, right?
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God doesn't will evil, but he permits it ultimately for our sanctification, right?
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And we're not capable of loving him if we're incapable of not loving him, right?
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Um, and he, I mean, he seemed really interested in that.
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And it was amazing to watch the filming unfold because the way Pacino acts is he'll do a few
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takes on script and then he'll just ad lib a few takes.
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And, uh, and I love sitting in the room and watching him ad lib because he would just pull
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quotes out of my mouth, um, from our conversations and some of them made it in and I'll watch the
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And, um, so he, he was really a lot of fun to work with.
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I worked the most with Dan Stevens who plays the parish priest.
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Maybe, uh, an Easter egg, little comment I can make to you is, uh, Dan's wearing my cassock
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in the movie because, uh, when he was being sized for his, I was looking at him, looking
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And I was thinking, I, this looks like a costume, like one of these, you know, party city costume
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Dan saw my cassock and he was like, father, your cassock is nicer than mine.
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And I said, well, I think yours, uh, isn't exactly what you need to be wearing.
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So he came and stood next to me and we're in the same height.
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So I just loaned him one of my cassocks, um, for the film, but Dan was great to work with.
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He also was very kind to some of our children from the parish.
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That was the one request I made was I wanted some of the boys from my parish to serve for
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And he was, he was great to them and he took photos with them.
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Um, and, uh, he, we had a lot of fun, uh, going back and forth.
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I got to teach Dan how to say mass in the traditional right.
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Um, you know, and we had a lot of practice with that and I have a great clip of him instancing
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the high altar and I'm off scene shouting, you know, instructions to him, you know, go to
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the left, go to the right, you know, swing three times here.
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And, and, um, but yeah, so it was, it was cool to do that.
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Um, but it was also, like you said, it was an evangelization opportunity.
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Um, a lot of the actors came to mass every week and a number of them were not Catholic
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like Dan Stevens is church of England, but he came to mass every Sunday he was here.
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And, um, you know, some of the, um, members of the crew, uh, would start to ask me questions
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about the church, um, about halfway through filming, uh, they asked if I would begin blessing
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And so I would go every morning and bless the stuff.
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And, um, and I'm still in contact with some of them who have become interested in the faith
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So I think it was a good experience for them as well.
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You know, the Lord worked through, um, their presence here in the church, uh, to sort of
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show them that this was a little more than just a, you know, a film.
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Um, we're talking about real things and, and the church is a real thing and God is a real
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Um, so I, I tell people that I, I was their host.
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I was a consultant, but I also became their pastor for about three months.
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And I try to, you know, approach it from that angle.
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Now I, I like, I have to run out and see the film immediately.
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I want to talk about this too, because you get around, obviously the Lord is choosing
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to work in your life because you're a friend of Harrison Butker.
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If you wouldn't mind, uh, tell us a little bit about that.
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You know, Harrison being all famous in football was great, but the, the, the speech he gave,
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the commencement speech that just went insane, especially for people like me.
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I mean, I, I don't want to share much about Harrison's private life.
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Um, but, uh, I got, got to see him at the Superbowl cause it was in New Orleans and I
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live in Natchez, which is just three hours North of New Orleans.
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Um, my connection with him, it actually, it comes through seminary.
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So, um, one of my best friends in seminary, Grant Asen was the punter for Georgia Tech
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And, um, there's a great video if you want to look it up where Harrison talks about his,
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And it came through, Grant invited him to go to confession, um, which is a cool story.
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Um, but so either way, so when I was in the seminary in New Orleans, Harrison would come
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to visit Grant and Grant was interested in Harrison, um, having a priest, he could ask
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So, and, um, and I wasn't really a sports fan at all.
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So Grant said, you know, do you want to go to dinner?
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You're probably not going to fangirl over this guy.
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You know, you'll be able to have a good conversation with him.
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And, um, Harrison ended up making this Google doc where he would just put in questions and
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And we did that for several months and, um, became friends with that.
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I, I taught Harrison how to serve Latin mass, uh, and, uh, helped him design the chapel in
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their house and, um, just saying, you know, he's a, he's a very good man and very good
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I've become very close to his parents at his sister's wedding, uh, through all of that.
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And his, you know, his commencement speech, you know, Harrison, um, he, I think he sees
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himself as he's been given, uh, um, an opportunity through his gifts, uh, to evangelize.
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You know, I, I think he, he had a conversation two or three years ago where, you know, I was
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worried that he could sort of get team T boat at some point.
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And, and he sort of made a comment to me where he's like, well, I just sort of see it as if
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that happens to me, then, you know, I had a good run and I did what God intended and
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So I mean, that's, I think that's why he wanted the approach that, um, that addressed
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And he doesn't enjoy public speaking that much, but I think he, you know, wanted to take a
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And he surrounds himself with people who encourage him to do that sort of thing.
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I'm proud of what he's doing with his platform and, and, um, and the way it's affecting other
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people, you know, cause it, it is, it's people are hearing about him and, and that sort of
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Um, other than just to encourage people to, to see it, you know, I, like I said, I think
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it's a, it's a good movie, but it wasn't intended to be a Catholic film, but it's become
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And, and, and I think the reason it's become one is because it's so fundamentally committed to
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the truth and when you become committed to the truth, it's impossible to not be Catholic.
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Um, you know, so, um, it's, it's, it's cool to see that happen.
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I've been saying the same thing when I've been reading them that, um, you know, the biggest
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complaint people have seen to be given is, is that it's just, oh, it's so Catholic.
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You know, I wanted it to, I wanted it to be like that.
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You know, it's, I was nervous when they, when they sent me this reader, cause I didn't want to
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regret it, but when I watched it, I was like, wow, I'm, you know, I'm very grateful that
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Last thing for your father, give us your blessing, please.
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Well, may the Lord be with you and with your spirit, may almighty God bless you, the father
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Father Aaron Williams, ladies and gentlemen, go see the ritual.
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I'm Deacon Keith Fournier, and I hope you enjoyed this video from LifeSite News.
00:23:45.340
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