The John-Henry Westen Show - Catholic school principal FIRED for being 'too traditional'？

00:00:00.000 We trust that good things can come out of this. I believe that. Has God really put this on my

00:00:04.160 heart? Do I really love education? I do. Do I think I have a gift for it and for administration?

00:00:09.720 I do. Okay, God doesn't want to waste these talents. He gives us. He's the one who gives us

00:00:14.460 those talents.

00:00:23.100 Hey, my friends. I've got someone here today who is very interesting. Now, imagine this. Imagine

00:00:30.000 being a principal at a Catholic school and you're a young man with a growing family. You've got three

00:00:36.980 kids. In fact, you've got three kids only if you're in the pro-life movement because you've got

00:00:40.780 a three-year-old, a one-year-old, and then one who's just about to be born. But it's a few months

00:00:47.840 before Christmas. Things are going well. School year's on. And all of a sudden, wait, what? I'm

00:00:55.900 fired from my job at a Catholic school? No, they wouldn't do that. What kind of egregious kind 0.96

00:01:03.700 of horror would I have had to have done? Like people have done all sorts of things. Would it be

00:01:08.660 some kind of abuse situation or something? Nope. How about before you even got the job, you were on

00:01:17.280 a Catholic podcast, a more traditional-sounding Catholic podcast, and you gave really beautiful

00:01:24.460 advice on being in a marriage or getting a wife. Hmm. That would do it? Oh, yes, that would do it. 0.98

00:01:33.500 You're going to want to stay tuned to this episode of the John Henry Weston Show with A.J. Barker.

00:01:37.200 We are on the brink of global war, maybe even nuclear war. This could be the beginning of

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00:02:17.260 Thank you, and God bless you.

00:02:20.040 A.J. Barker, welcome to the program.

00:02:21.840 Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. It's an honor.

00:02:24.360 Praise God. Let's begin as we always do with the sign of the cross.

00:02:27.340 In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.

00:02:31.860 If you don't mind, I would love everyone to hear the story from you. Tell us what happened

00:02:38.620 and how this went down. I'm at my first principal job, and I'm about four and a half months into the

00:02:45.280 job when I get called into a meeting and asked to resign, which I refused, and then was subsequently

00:02:52.760 fired. But in order, I really think in order to understand the story, you have to go back at least

00:02:57.720 to the start of me being there. So here I am. I get hired to my first principal job. It's June.

00:03:03.860 I get there, and the first thing I do, this is actually more an observation on Catholic education,

00:03:11.520 the state of Catholic education right now. The first thing I do is we have five out of 15 teachers

00:03:17.760 left the year prior, and now we need to hire new teachers. And for me, I see this as quite a profound

00:03:26.980 opportunity, because the economics in Catholic education are way off. I'll try and just briefly

00:03:33.920 outline it for people. But, you know, if you were to take on an administrative role in a Catholic 0.65

00:03:39.140 school of, let's say, about 200 kids, parish school, K-8, you'd be looking at an operating budget of

00:03:45.400 about a million to $1.1 million, okay? And your tuition's been rising faster than the pace of

00:03:52.240 inflation over the last 15, 20 years, but you're probably at around $5,000 a year in tuition.

00:03:56.640 Now, what's interesting is that every Catholic school at best is going to receive somewhere

00:04:00.580 between $3,000 and $4,000 per student. So that puts your revenue at $600,000 to $800,000. The rest of it,

00:04:07.740 you have to try and secure through fundraising. So we're talking anywhere from, you know, $200,000 to $500,000

00:04:13.180 of operating budget has to be handled by revenue. So this, I say this because I come to my role as a

00:04:21.680 new principal with these things in mind, thinking deeply for years now on end about this. How do we

00:04:28.140 address these major deficiencies just in the fundamentals of Catholic education? And then

00:04:33.840 we'll get to the piece about the values and the actual Catholic faith and what we've done with the

00:04:38.340 Catholic, you know, again, with the Catholic tradition and teaching our kids. So the first

00:04:42.680 thing I do is I go, you know, I'm not going to hire anyone. I'm going to start to reshuffle things.

00:04:47.340 I'm going to move things with scheduling, with what we do in the day. One of the things I did

00:04:52.580 is I put in daily mass. And I did this actually, again, for a two-purpose reason. One is because

00:05:00.700 I knew as I started to shift the schedule, I didn't rehire teachers, our class sizes were going to get

00:05:04.640 bigger. And so I knew if our class sizes are getting bigger, we want to do something that

00:05:08.420 offsets that. Like, we want them to be able to have more time in FIAD. We want them to have lunch

00:05:13.880 recess. Well, we'd really like for them to have something at the beginning of the day. So there's

00:05:17.720 kind of an offer. It can help with the balance of these things. And so there is this really practical

00:05:21.920 standpoint, which says, let's open up something in the middle of the day so that we can handle

00:05:26.300 every single day better. And I go to the priest and I say, hey, I've got this block of time.

00:05:30.520 What do you think? Can we do daily mass? And he's like, absolutely. I mean, most priests,

00:05:35.800 they'd have to pull teeth to try and get their principal to want to do daily mass. And I came

00:05:40.220 to him with that offer. And he's like, yeah, absolutely. So we put in daily mass. From my

00:05:44.980 perspective, I go, okay, the priest has greenlit it. We're going. Like, we're going to, we're going

00:05:48.700 to roll now. If I have to take on heat, I'll take on heat. But we've got the principles. We know why

00:05:53.320 we're doing it. We know what we're doing it for. We're going to make this happen. So we do. We make

00:05:58.260 it happen. Suffice to say there are, there are families that are upset about it and we lose

00:06:02.120 some families, but we don't lose that many. And because we didn't rehire teachers, we're not

00:06:07.400 facing any struggle. Right? So, I mean, this is, this is key. This is a one, two punch where it's

00:06:12.400 like, okay, this is really ready. And, and the real thing that, that was important here was we want to

00:06:17.320 get to day one where we're living this out, where we're able to do it on day one. And we get to day one

00:06:24.140 and then we get through the first month and the second month and it's going really well. And,

00:06:28.040 and people are feeling it. They're experiencing it. So, I mean, again, you'll learn as we go

00:06:32.440 through this interview, I, I really believe deeply in the Catholic faith. So I made sure that we got

00:06:37.840 catechisms, you know, in, into the building in all the ages, um, the new St. Joseph catechism

00:06:44.700 for, for the young, it's a, it's again, a sort of reprint of the Baltimore catechism.

00:06:48.920 Um, I'm like, okay, I want to be doing these things. I want slowly, let's try and work logic

00:06:54.400 into logic modules into what we're teaching so that learning becomes more intuitive for kids

00:06:58.900 that we can really help, um, bolster how they think the skills of thinking, reading, writing,

00:07:03.540 mathematics, right? We want to open up time in the schedule in different spots and close it down in

00:07:07.860 other spots and really, really try and be thoughtful about this. And so we get to day one and, um, we

00:07:12.640 navigated the summer where some families are mad and they left, you know? And, um, again, I'm

00:07:18.860 going to throw this other piece into the story here briefly, which is the families that left

00:07:23.520 were majority Catholic families. We had non-Catholic families and the Catholic families that left said,

00:07:29.200 well, Hey, what about the non-Catholic families? You're doing daily mass. What about these families

00:07:32.860 that are not Catholic? But the families that left were majority Catholic because in the Catholic

00:07:37.620 church alone, you have this interesting dynamic, right? If people are upset with the Baptist church,

00:07:42.840 they leave the Baptist church. If they're upset with the Lutheran church, they leave the Lutheran

00:07:46.840 church. If they're upset with it, they leave it. But the Catholic church is the most glorious

00:07:51.700 and beautiful institution in the history of the world. And so it's institutional footprint

00:07:59.620 is robust. It's got hospitals, it's got schools, it's got everything that really makes up the

00:08:07.180 infrastructure of our society today. And so what happens then is in the Catholic faith alone,

00:08:11.720 you see the sort of unique dynamic where people sit around in it when they don't like it, right?

00:08:17.100 This is real. And we all observe this. And so what happens is the families that leave that go,

00:08:23.020 Hey, well, you know, what about our non-Catholics? They're fine with it because they're sending their 1.00

00:08:27.540 kid to a Catholic school going, Hey, we want the faith. And mass at least can speak to them wanting

00:08:33.160 the faith. You know, they're okay with Catholics being Catholic. And what happens though,

00:08:37.180 is they leave and, um, um, there's now a flank of people that, that are upset and we get going

00:08:44.880 with the school year. And this is my honest and earnest read on it, that we have this group that

00:08:48.960 that's upset. We get going with the year and it's, it's beautiful and it's having an impact and it's

00:08:53.820 transforming this community. And mind you, it's not a community that's, um, you know, traditional

00:08:58.740 minded that's going, Hey, we're going to select for this. It's one that's going, you know,

00:09:03.560 what? We're probably not in that camp at all, but we like this guy. We're excited for him as a leader,

00:09:09.220 as a leader of our school. And I, I come to it and it's about bringing the faith. The faith that

00:09:14.560 the saints teach is the faith that I was drawn to. It's the faith that I converted to. It's the

00:09:19.500 thing that drew me out of the despair of the secular modern world. What were you before?

00:09:23.920 Yeah, before I was an atheist, I was raised Lutheran. By the time I say, by the time I was 13,

00:09:28.180 I didn't believe in God. And, um, and then I was an atheist. I was, I always say I was adamantly

00:09:33.620 against that. Sometimes I get people go, well, did you really not believe in God? I say, no,

00:09:37.220 I would tell people that I don't think there's a God, right? I don't know propositionally how you

00:09:43.560 could get much more atheist than that. And I would argue on behalf of that atheism. And so by the time

00:09:48.680 I'm in my, my mid twenties, I, I actually, I start this process, uh, football, I maybe mentioned this

00:09:55.280 briefly in preview when you guys are asking for a little bio, but I was a football player for the

00:09:59.800 Minnesota Gophers. I played wide receiver. I got into some, uh, drama there where I get an injury.

00:10:04.880 I leave the team. I write a letter about why I'm leaving. Part of it is that, you know, being an

00:10:08.860 atheist on this team, there's this culture of, of sort of evangelical Christianity. And, you know,

00:10:14.840 so there's this kind of under this undercurrent of sort of oppression and things like that. And as you

00:10:19.900 can imagine, the, the national secular media really amplifies it, loves it. The world of

00:10:25.000 football, not interested. I actually, I transfer out to the university of Houston. And while I'm

00:10:29.080 down there, I have, I have a marijuana habit. So I get arrested for, for smoking marijuana and kicked

00:10:33.120 off the team and doors to football stop opening. And, um, it's in that time where I begin to really

00:10:41.440 kind of truly reflect on my life for, for the first time where I'm really, really doing it. I always

00:10:46.860 liked thinking, I always liked, you know, reading and, and, and arguing about tough, tough ideas and

00:10:53.060 taking it in. But now I start really doing it in a more solitary sense. And, um, it begins this,

00:10:59.420 this slow walk where I always say, um, you know, it's funny. My, my now wife was my girlfriend at

00:11:05.760 the time broke up with me because she didn't think I was in a good place. And she was, she was actually

00:11:09.200 Catholic, raised Catholic relatively within the faith, you know, through our time there as much

00:11:13.580 as one could be growing up, you know, in the nineties and two thousands going to Catholic schools.

00:11:17.980 Um, and, and so she's, you know, I, I just, I don't think, I don't think you're in a good place.

00:11:24.440 I don't think you're ever going to be. It was really her take. And, and I actually, I thought

00:11:28.540 she was right. The bottom line was ultimately I thought she was right. Now that I was, I was alone

00:11:34.100 and football ended and the girl who would become my wife, um, you know, is breaking up with me.

00:11:39.860 I care a lot less about football and a lot more about the heartache. And so I set, set myself out on a

00:11:45.560 mission desiring how one can love better. Cause I, one thing I was convinced of is that you can

00:11:49.840 love well or not. You can fail. You can want to love someone well and not love them well.

00:11:55.380 And so this, this is a beeline to Christ on the cross and to the Catholic faith. You know,

00:12:00.340 the Lord brought me through that and, and consummated that. And in, uh, 2018, Easter vigil,

00:12:05.640 2018, I was confirmed into the faith and, um, you know, been there since. So the sort of seminal

00:12:11.460 work that converted me, um, was Joseph Ratzinger's introduction to Christianity. You know, I've been

00:12:17.360 reading enough. I was well disposed. And when I, when I read that the scales fell and I believed,

00:12:21.680 and I, I believe totally. And I believed in the church to me, I've always kind of viewed myself

00:12:26.660 as what I'd call a Catholic or nothing Catholic. If it's not all of it, I don't think it really

00:12:31.540 makes sense to me. Right. But, but so here I am, I'm, I'm one over to it. And, um, yeah,

00:12:37.140 so here I'm at the school and I'm bringing the faith and I'm bringing that testimony. And when

00:12:40.780 families are, you know, well, we're not there in the, we don't know that we believe that I can

00:12:45.220 relate. I can relate. Cause that's me. That's it. And you know, our kids, they're disaffected.

00:12:51.060 That's me. I know how this goes. And we get to October and here's where the story picks up. We

00:12:56.900 get to the October and, and the priest, my boss comes to me and he says, you know, AJ, um, I just

00:13:02.340 had a stack of papers dropped on my desk with things that you've written and spoken about publicly.

00:13:08.020 And, uh, this person was not happy and they're not related to the school. They don't have a kid

00:13:11.860 in the school. Um, and it also, they're, they're, they're elderly. They don't have a kid or grandkid.

00:13:17.280 And, um, they're not, so they're also not associated to one of the families that left the school.

00:13:22.160 But there's suspicion that all this stuff, it's a smaller town that this stuff is sort of moving

00:13:26.840 in this way. And I said, okay, I said, father, um, you know, I always try and speak

00:13:31.320 honestly and earnestly in my faith. I try and be respectful. If I fail in it, if I fail,

00:13:37.580 let me know. Cause I want to get right with God first and foremost. Anyways, but what emerges

00:13:41.640 that there's, there's a podcast that I did called Dumper Christian masculine podcast with

00:13:46.440 Tim Gordon, Will Noland, um, Royce White, Nick Stumphouser, where we're talking about dating advice.

00:13:53.300 And, um, you know, so I go, okay, this is the one that's kind of risen to the top. I go,

00:13:57.560 okay, well, rewatch it. I mean, I think I recall trying to, again, speak earnestly and honestly

00:14:01.940 and well, and I rewatch it and rewatch it. And I see that, okay, it's, it's, it's what I thought,

00:14:07.820 you know, that the piece of advice I gave was that, um, when, when trying to figure out who you

00:14:13.120 should marry, look and see if they have a capacity for suffering at all. And I even said, they don't,

00:14:18.160 they don't have to be great. They don't have to be Padre Pio. It's really just, do they hate

00:14:21.360 suffering or do they kind of think something good might be able to come from it? Because this is really

00:14:25.980 going to map onto the Christian life of virtue. Um, there's even a way that all the vices can be 0.95

00:14:31.920 understand, understood as springing from desires not to suffer under different aspects, the capital

00:14:36.560 vices. So, I mean, it's really, I mean, and then of course, Christ suffers most perfectly.

00:14:40.700 And so again, it's like the priest, he goes, man, I've watched it three to four times, which I'm like,

00:14:46.960 oh man, you know, it's a lot, you know, but, uh, he goes, he goes, I've watched it. What you said

00:14:52.120 is beautiful. And you are really moderating force on this podcast. The podcast itself can be pretty,

00:14:58.140 um, controversial. Let's put it that way. Yeah. Yeah. No, it can, it can, it can, it can trigger

00:15:04.280 a listener who's, who's not ready, uh, for what they're walking into, which is, I think, why this

00:15:10.200 became the piece that spread because it was the one where you could drop it on someone's lap, tell them

00:15:15.760 to make a moral judgment on it and you'll struggle. You'll struggle through it. Right. Especially if

00:15:20.720 there's aspects of humor involved with things where, um, now you're trying to go make, you know,

00:15:26.320 a propositional set of anathemas. You know, that's not how our church works when they're

00:15:30.520 doing the council of Trent, they're not taking satires and, and, uh, anathematizing them.

00:15:36.300 Right. And so you have this kind of this dynamic where you're like, all right, this is,

00:15:40.060 this is combustible. It's combustible. If we're being honest, it is. And, um, but,

00:15:45.060 but like in all things, I, I tried to speak well, I tried to speak honestly.

00:15:49.280 Let's take a listen to what you did say.

00:15:50.720 So set this clip up for us. Where is this in the conversation?

00:15:53.920 Each of us came to the show with, with one, one rule we were going to contribute that you look

00:16:00.360 for. And so this one is the one now we get to my turn. And so I offer my rule.

00:16:06.320 What I think to look for is, um, a person's capacity for suffering. So how well do you think

00:16:14.760 that person can suffer? And I'm talking, I always make the joke, like, you know, in, in,

00:16:20.320 the dark night when Joker looks at the, the Asian dude who works for the big bank and he points at

00:16:27.520 him, he's like, you know, I know a squealer when I see one and that's him. Like, that's what you're

00:16:33.660 going for is like, when you're in the presence of someone, you can be like, is that person capable

00:16:38.200 of suffering? No, they're, they're not going to be Padre Pio yet. Like I, I get that. I get that.

00:16:43.880 You know, they're not going to be Mary Magdalene, you know, perpetual penitent or something. But,

00:16:48.300 but the point is, and I would say, actually, this would be the even deeper distinction.

00:16:51.560 The point is to say, um, are they someone that hates suffering or are they someone that kind of

00:16:58.640 has the instinct to think that there's something good that comes through it? Because those are the

00:17:03.220 two poles. They're the people who hate it. They want nothing to do with it. They're going to flee 0.85

00:17:06.600 from it. And all these things that you're talking about are going to be signs, especially if you go

00:17:11.240 back to your early ones, Tim, related to them withholding affection, you know, retaliate. I call it a

00:17:16.740 retaliatory boycott. So someone retaliates with a boycott. That's, it's very spiritually immature.

00:17:24.060 That's very spiritually immature. And it's a root of a lot of other problems. And, um, so to me,

00:17:29.480 if someone's activating that there, they not, it's not just that they're not good at suffering yet.

00:17:35.860 They hate suffering. And there's there, that's a no go to me. That's, that's an actual like no go.

00:17:41.760 Whereas if someone you're like, all right, I feel like this person could suffer. Another way I put it is

00:17:45.280 like, how well could this person be Jobed? You know, if they were Jobed, how well could they

00:17:50.060 handle it? No, they're not going to handle it like Job. They're not going to get every single thing,

00:17:53.920 you know, physical, spiritual, social thrown at them. Um, because that was by, by divine providence

00:18:00.140 for that one thing to take place in that way. But, but it's a good image of it. How could that person

00:18:05.360 be Jobed? How would they handle being Jobed? And most people, you can look at them and go just like,

00:18:10.200 you know, the Joker in Dark Knight. Nah, that one, I know a squealer when I see one,

00:18:14.600 if they're still in the camp where they hate suffering, they need to get to the point where

00:18:19.160 they sinned and, and in hatred of suffering in not seeing the divine providence of suffering,

00:18:24.460 they rejected and wanted nothing to do with it and turned from it. Cause that's, that's probably

00:18:28.860 the biggest error in their whole life. Right. And now we just, we have a culture that doesn't

00:18:33.040 believe in confession, doesn't believe in repentance, doesn't believe in penance, doesn't

00:18:39.040 believe that these things can get course corrected. So that's where the generations then come

00:18:42.720 in where we have generations of people who have lived with this parents who have sinned

00:18:47.020 against their own suffering, who then had kids who then sinned against their suffering.

00:18:50.080 And now they have kids. And now here we are third, fourth generation on where it has totally fallen

00:18:55.180 from the norm to confess, to be penitent, to repent for things, to try and turn around,

00:19:00.620 to try and catch out your own faults. And now it just runs amok.

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00:19:33.660 And may God bless you.

00:19:35.480 I mean, that was beautiful. What did people have a problem with with that?

00:19:39.940 It wasn't about that. And it was acknowledged that what I said was beautiful. I mean, those

00:19:45.780 are the words that were repeated. What they said is that what they wonder is, how much do you

00:19:51.000 believe the other things other people were saying on it? And for me, I go, well, hold on. Yeah,

00:19:57.720 hold on, hold on. Because at the depths of it, I believe what they believe. I believe in the

00:20:02.820 headship of the father in the home. I believe in the natural. There's real distinctions between

00:20:06.840 men and women. They're not merely symbolic either. These are real things. And so this

00:20:13.600 is kind of a trap. How deeply do I believe in it? Well, I very deeply believe in it.

00:20:18.000 What came to be was, again, it was less about, you know, what do you say to this? What do you say to

00:20:23.820 this? What do you say to this? Because we can go do that. We can we can parse that. But it's more.

00:20:30.080 Hold on. The fact that you believe that aspect. I don't know. You know, I mean, that's where now

00:20:36.300 and I should say the people there's a split. The people in the school advisory council,

00:20:42.320 the trustees, there's a split. There were people that really supported me. And I'm really grateful

00:20:46.320 for that. And I mean, they did. They voiced it to me. And I know the efforts were there. I mean,

00:20:51.300 these are people that were really grief stricken as we were even going through this, as they felt this

00:20:55.760 mounting. And so I'm eternally grateful to that. But then there were others who said, you know,

00:21:02.060 this is more proof. You know, we've kind of had a problem with the way he does things in general.

00:21:07.840 And this is more proof that that this this guy is is is not only unacceptable, but that there's

00:21:13.620 something sort of wicked moving him. You know, it's a sort of psychologizing of the motives that get

00:21:19.360 you to a place where you believe the faith in the way that that I do that many people my age,

00:21:24.020 my peers, that we do believe the faith that we're trying to live out. And so it was from there

00:21:29.460 where now it mounts and it becomes about them. And the key point here is that, you know, the

00:21:34.400 Christian faith, we do not believe in guilt by association. I don't get to go to confession

00:21:38.520 and confess to other people's sins. I go to confession, I confess my sins. And even that I

00:21:44.660 want to be clear that that would be a debt if I even just impute that that is the verdict on other

00:21:51.160 people. That's unfair. That's unjust. Because again, the vector of where these men are pointed

00:21:56.320 is toward the faith and is toward the traditions of the faith and the reality, the practical reality

00:22:02.600 of it. And I've said to many people, these are men that my friendships with them have strengthened

00:22:08.200 me, have refined me, have made me better. This isn't something where you take someone where

00:22:13.480 someone else goes, well, I don't like how you said that. And then you go, oh, yeah, not my friend.

00:22:17.100 I don't I don't know that guy. That's that's not how the Christian life works. I'm firmly 1.00

00:22:21.300 convinced of that. Now, I'm not the authority on what the Christian life is. But again, reading

00:22:26.320 the saints, reading the gospels, reading scripture, this this to me and in conversation with with

00:22:32.400 priests, with my own parish priests who's separate with priest friends that I know, really

00:22:38.080 being able to feel feel firm in that foundation. Is this is this a firm foundation to stand on?

00:22:43.580 For me, it's it's it's not let me start by justifying myself. Let me ask, hey, four other

00:22:48.960 priests that I know that are good friends that have dined at my house and met my family.

00:22:53.480 What do you what do you think? And when it goes four for four and it's no, this is this

00:22:58.660 is not how the faith works. We don't we don't do this. Then I can then I can feel confident

00:23:03.500 say, OK, we're not going there. Right. It's not nothing good will come of it. And in the

00:23:09.280 wake of this, the same thing holds that as the school and not the whole school, but the

00:23:15.840 people at the top sort of fell to this pressure of it. The same thing holds that I'm not to

00:23:21.280 now unruly criticize them for these things, because things are hard. Right. Fears mount.

00:23:27.820 There are there are real realities. These things that that principle of charity is ruthless in

00:23:33.140 its extensions. But it's the whole foundation of the faith. If you don't have it, you don't

00:23:37.400 have the faith. And so for me, I think what became clear is the test for me going through

00:23:43.000 this was to work really hard to retain charity, even as it became clear that I might be staring

00:23:48.800 down the end of the end of my job here, which is scary and serious. And I mean, aside from

00:23:55.600 being thrown in jail, there's not much that's more serious, particularly in your situation.

00:23:59.780 I mean, you're you're a young dad. You've got you've got three. Well, three for us. But

00:24:04.160 for most people, they'd say you two and one on the way. But what's your wife say?

00:24:09.760 My wife is the most amazing woman I've ever met. I love her more than anyone. And it's

00:24:17.040 like I constantly I find myself to talk. Hey, we continue to pray for them. We continue.

00:24:21.880 She's because she's like, what, you know, how on earth? And she's, you know, she's guns 1.00

00:24:26.460 blazing for it. And she knows what I'm like. I'm that to the thousandth degree when I'm, you

00:24:33.300 know, initially interacting with the things. She looks at like, how how could they do this?

00:24:37.480 I mean, we have a young family. We have young kids. There's not anything that happened within

00:24:41.900 the time that I was even principal there. We're talking about something that was prior

00:24:45.560 to me even being principal there. How on earth did they get to the place where they do this?

00:24:50.220 And and she knows, you know, I came from being an atheist. That means I came from being a secular

00:24:56.380 liberal. That's what that means. If I was an atheist, that's what that means. And my wife,

00:25:01.640 when we got back together, had to find herself reverting to the faith, right? And she didn't

00:25:07.460 have to, but that's my witness. This is what's transformed me. And she loves me and she's

00:25:12.680 moving toward it and she's learning those depths of it. So she's she's she's in agreement with me,

00:25:18.400 not, you know, a sort of top down imposed agreement, but rather one where you draw it out.

00:25:24.780 I mean, the faith is real. It's, you know, it's fruits are real. And and so she believes it,

00:25:31.100 you know, we believe these things. We believe that these notions around around feminism are 1.00

00:25:35.920 toxic and not good. They're not of the Lord. That these these efforts to undermine, you know,

00:25:43.120 families, virtues of obedience. I mean, these are real, like there are many saints that say that

00:25:47.980 the quickest path to sainthood is is obedience. Well, what is that? That looks different in

00:25:53.960 different people, right? And so we're we're in the camp where we go get no, we believe that that's

00:25:59.140 that's the good stuff. That's the teaching where where the whole thing cracks open, where you feel

00:26:05.100 your life be transformed. So I mean, I'm, I'm blessed my my wife, she's the most beautiful person in the

00:26:10.480 world to me. And and she's got courage. And she's got that from that capacity for suffering. She's got

00:26:16.980 the propensity toward it. And, you know, she always says, man, you're real AJ, you're really

00:26:20.660 testing this way more than I would want. You know, I don't like it. But that's in the Lord's

00:26:25.640 hands, not our hands. We don't get to decide when or where we have to try and hold to the faith. And

00:26:29.920 then we trust, we trust that good things can come out of this. And I, I believe that even as this as

00:26:35.520 the the doors closed, and these things happen, it's like, hey, we do that discernment. All right,

00:26:42.400 do it. Has God really put this on my heart? Do I really love education? I do.

00:26:46.980 Do I think I have a gift for it? And for administration? I do. Okay, God, God doesn't

00:26:52.160 want to waste these these talents he gives us. He's the one who gives us those talents. And so

00:26:58.060 now where that comes next, I have no idea. And that is scary. And that sort of unknown is very

00:27:03.640 scary. We wrestle with it day in and day out now, you know, but it's one of those things where it's

00:27:08.840 like, we have that way through where it's like, okay, we can hold, we can hold to the faith here.

00:27:13.880 Right. And we don't know. The other thing is, we don't know if this isn't a precursor for a tougher

00:27:18.560 persecution. We don't know that. We don't know that. And, and we don't get to determine to what

00:27:24.340 degree are we, you know, innocent in this or guilty. We just put it over to the Lord.

00:27:30.580 St. Augustine says that let me not be he says about Monica, let me not fall into the trap. He actually

00:27:36.520 says about Monica, she never fell into the trap of saying that I have no debts to pay, but rather

00:27:41.740 refer to the one who has paid all the debts, who no one can ask any repayment of. That's,

00:27:46.660 that's our job now is, okay, we keep turning to Christ. We keep turning to Christ. And it's like,

00:27:51.040 you know, our, our family's trying to do that. We're, we're trying to live that out.

00:27:54.800 So what's amazing to me is that this, this happened to you in a Catholic school in the

00:28:03.120 Archdiocese of St. Paul, Minneapolis, which is not a terrible diocese. So how does that even fly?

00:28:10.680 Where was like, was an appeal made? Where are you in this process?

00:28:14.940 It is one of the, the beautiful things, but vulnerable things in the Catholic faith.

00:28:20.600 There's three people who could fire me, the priest, the Archbishop, and the Pope. And the

00:28:26.640 Archbishop and the Pope don't know who I am, you know? But that's the way we, we believe in real,

00:28:31.920 real authority, real jurisdiction. And so ultimately when it comes down to it, I, I do. I mean, I'm,

00:28:37.940 I'm indebted. The Archdiocese is the one who set me up with this school. Their office of education

00:28:42.620 is one who said, we think this guy is the right leader. He's a young, promising leader.

00:28:47.300 He's been, you know, I went through their master's programs and their, their school certifications

00:28:52.460 for being an administrator where they've set up ones where you don't have to go through the

00:28:55.820 state certifications for very intentional reasons, right? The, the, the pedagogy, the nature of the

00:29:01.760 human person is different in the secular state than it is in the Catholic church. You know, this 0.69

00:29:06.240 diocese is one of the, the ones who, who really initiated, who really took the lead on these

00:29:10.640 initiatives that more and more diocese are, are copying where they really want the training of

00:29:15.040 their school leaders, their school administrators to come through the Catholic faith. And so, I mean,

00:29:20.080 this is a diocese that they've been, they've been good to me. They still are. They're still being

00:29:23.320 amazing to me, but these, these things can happen. And again, it's not even about, it's not at all

00:29:28.940 about singling out the priests. It's that this momentum can build, this momentum can build and it can

00:29:34.400 build quick. And it's why, you know, when, when the priest first came to me, he said, to be clear,

00:29:39.080 this is not a fireball offense. And I appreciated him saying that. And, um, you know, but, but I also

00:29:45.240 knew, well, hold on, if things mount, it's hard. That, that, that pressure cooker is hard. And so

00:29:51.440 even it's like, I'm not holding now. I know also the other thing at that moment I knew is if you get

00:29:57.300 to the point where you fire me, you're not going to go, Oh man, well, the pressure cooker was too much

00:30:01.640 because that's not how human psychology works. You're going to get to a place where you're going to say,

00:30:05.480 no, you actually are the problem and I have to get rid of you. Right. And, and that's what you 0.99

00:30:10.820 witness in reality is you witness that shift. You witness the people that are against you become,

00:30:17.340 they get more and more convicted that you are the problem. Right. And that's, and that's a real,

00:30:24.060 that's the heaviest burden to take on. That's the one that, you know, for my wife, it's like, man,

00:30:29.840 only with really a lot of prayer, a lot of, you know, friends who are living the faith priests

00:30:36.100 that we know that have our, nuns, um, you know, these, these people that, that have dined at our

00:30:41.460 house who are part of our community. It's being able to turn to them and, and get that again,

00:30:46.640 that sort of reaffirmation of like, Hey, you're living the faith out. Okay. Okay. Like, are we just,

00:30:52.200 are we going crazy? Am I the problem? That's the part that's the hardest is when it actually comes time,

00:30:57.160 they don't say, ah, Hey, I get it. The pressure's hard and it's getting me. And here you go. No,

00:31:02.140 they, their actions integrate with the pressure. And that's where, um, you get to this place where

00:31:08.320 you're like, Oh man, you know, it's truly possible for a head to roll right now. And, um, it's,

00:31:14.700 it's hard. It's hard to stare down. Indeed. AJ, what are, what are your plans now? What,

00:31:19.320 where, where are you headed? What are you doing? I'm trying to put together application materials. And

00:31:23.500 my wife and I were like, let's broaden the tent. If we have to move anywhere,

00:31:27.040 anywhere in the country, anywhere in the world, let's just be open to what the Lord wants.

00:31:30.700 Right. So I'm trying to put together application materials. I mean, I have them mostly all

00:31:34.900 together, but get ready to kind of reach out to places, see network up, see, Hey, um, you know,

00:31:40.780 we know of a school here that they're really trying to live the faith out and they need someone.

00:31:45.020 You might be the, the, the guy for it, or maybe someone hears of the story and goes, you know what,

00:31:49.900 this is what, what we think leadership looks like. There's gonna be plenty of people that say,

00:31:53.280 no, sorry, we don't think so. Right. But the real hope is, okay, can we get into a position where we

00:32:00.520 can find the next place where we can continue on again, what the mission is, which is it's always

00:32:06.420 the same mission. It's the gospel. It's just sharing the gospel. And whether it's a immediate

00:32:11.300 outlet, a postulate like your own, or it's a school, it's ordered toward the sharing of the

00:32:16.200 gospel. And it's, and really the reason why I say media apostle in school is because they're both

00:32:20.240 about really transmitting it directly and trying to, um, you know, again, educate and, and catechize

00:32:26.940 and teach people and give them the school, the skills needed, um, to, to thrive as, as humans in

00:32:33.140 this world, as children of God, for me, it's, it's nowhere, no man's land and it's, it's dark and it's

00:32:38.880 tough, but we got to hold on and, and, and try and keep working and keep going and see what happens.

00:32:43.740 And if it's not one of those doors that opens, okay, Lord need you to open up whatever the next door is.

00:32:48.220 And, um, and we just try and cooperate in that, participate in that process.

00:32:52.760 The appeals to the archdiocese of St. Paul, Minneapolis, have they been

00:32:57.400 responded to at all? Have you, um, heard anything back from them?

00:33:01.860 It's beautiful that the church has a setup that our archdiocese has it set up. They have

00:33:06.040 conciliation processes, um, in place, office of conciliation, and you can, and I've petitioned to

00:33:11.580 that. And so we'll, we'll see what comes of that. Now it's, it's something that once it's underway,

00:33:15.500 you don't, you don't speak about it. And I, I respect that, you know? Um, and so it's one that

00:33:20.440 I've, I've started that process at least, and, and we'll see what, what can come of it. Um, but

00:33:25.340 it's one where really what's beautiful about it is you're, you're entering in a, in a spirit of

00:33:29.260 charity, desiring for whatever's sort of arrived at to be something that's, that's somewhat mutually

00:33:36.040 agreed upon, desiring for the faith to be the thing that wins out and reigns, reigns in all of it.

00:33:42.080 So, um, yeah, no, you know, I think, uh, when you set up something like that, people set it up in

00:33:46.920 earnest and, and you hope that those things can be brought through it. We all know it doesn't always

00:33:51.500 work. And, um, you know, that that's next barrier to try and jump over if, if, if that, if that time

00:33:58.240 comes. AJ, we will be praying for you and your family. I'm sure many, many of our viewers will be

00:34:02.820 where can they read, uh, about you? You've got a book out. Tell us about that. You know,

00:34:07.760 I was a theology teacher prior to, prior to being a principal and I wrote a book called Advanced

00:34:11.440 Christianity. Um, it's sort of, it's fundamentals in the Christian faith, but men for someone who's 0.98

00:34:16.660 a few years, at least into their faith, into their walk, trying to learn it where you're giving

00:34:20.560 more direct answers, less analogies, but not quite as advanced as if you were, you know, reading a,

00:34:26.060 a scholarly, scholarly dissertation. And so it's, it's kind of a middle ground, but it's called

00:34:29.860 Advanced Christianity. That's on Amazon. And then I, I write on Substack at ajbarker.substack.com.

00:34:35.260 And that's probably the, that's, that's the best place. That's where I try and once a month or so

00:34:39.320 put something out. And now, um, you know, with the, the changing scenario, I'll probably try and

00:34:44.860 contribute more to it and, and, and gear more toward education, things like that. You know,

00:34:49.000 one thing that I know is real is we have a lot of families that are homeschooling, um, because

00:34:54.220 they're, they're struggling to find, uh, the faith taught well, um, in, in their local areas. You know,

00:35:00.140 I want to try and, and, and provide some materials, some instructional materials for people that are

00:35:06.000 looking to do that. And so I hope to, uh, you know, kind of branch out more into that with this

00:35:10.100 time and, and just do what we can to keep, keep the good fight going. Amen to that. AJ Barker,

00:35:15.960 thank you so much for being with us. God bless you. Thank you very much for having me. I really

00:35:19.480 appreciate it. God bless. And God bless all of you. And we'll see you next time.

00:35:23.260 Hi, everyone. This is Father James Altman for LifeSite News. We hope you enjoyed this video.

00:35:33.580 For more content like this, uh, check the links in the description. You can also connect with us

00:35:39.420 on social media to stay up to date with the latest news on life, faith, family, and freedom.

00:35:46.780 Thank you for watching and may God bless you all.

The John-Henry Westen Show - December 10, 2024

Catholic school principal FIRED for being 'too traditional'？

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