The John-Henry Westen Show - Clergy sex abuse in the Catholic Church： it’s about homosexuality

00:00:00.760 We are very privileged to have with us today on this episode of the John Henry Weston Show

00:00:05.600 a German sociologist and prolific author, an acquaintance of Pope Benedict XVI who has

00:00:11.360 visited him in his post-retirement monastery and still exchanges Christmas cards and Easter

00:00:15.920 cards with him.

00:00:17.100 She is the foremost European culture warrior protecting the family from the sexual revolution. 0.89

00:00:23.720 Pope Benedict XVI has called her, and I quote, a brave fighter against the ideologies that

00:00:29.760 ultimately result in the destruction of man.

00:00:32.980 Stay tuned for this episode of the John Henry Weston Show.

00:00:35.920 Welcome, Gabrielle Kuby, to the John Henry Weston Show.

00:01:01.860 Welcome, John Henry.

00:01:03.400 Nice to speak to you.

00:01:04.300 Let's begin, as we always do, with the sign of the cross.

00:01:07.720 In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

00:01:11.320 Amen.

00:01:13.860 So, we have a mutual friend in Michael O'Brien, with whom you have authored this latest book,

00:01:23.360 The Abuse of Sexuality in the Catholic Church, which we'll be speaking about.

00:01:27.640 And I've been blessed to know you now, through Michael, for about 15 years.

00:01:32.660 A chapter in this book is the essay of Pope Benedict XVI on this subject, and the introduction

00:01:41.020 of this book comes from Cardinal Gerhard Müller, the chosen head of the Congregation for the Doctrine

00:01:48.280 of Faith, chosen by Pope Benedict XVI, and only recently removed from that position by Pope

00:01:54.840 Francis.

00:01:55.840 Now, writing about the sexual abuse crisis in the Church is a very difficult topic.

00:02:01.500 But you seem to have spent your life, after your conversion, writing about hard topics.

00:02:08.200 You authored, and in fact, LifeSite interviewed you on the Jonathan Van Maren Show about your

00:02:14.940 book on the gender revolution.

00:02:16.560 And this book of yours, probably your most well-known book, it's called The Global Sexual Revolution,

00:02:24.080 Destruction of Freedom in the Name of Freedom.

00:02:26.640 And I would encourage all of our viewers, if you haven't heard it yet, listen to the Jonathan

00:02:31.160 Van Maren Show interview with Gabrielle Kuby on that fascinating book.

00:02:36.580 For this interview, I want our viewers to understand, first of all, the depth of your own faith.

00:02:43.660 I read your book, as I have many of your books, and I was very impressed with your writing,

00:02:49.460 which at times actually seemed poetic.

00:02:52.360 There's this one passage in your book, again, the book is The Abuse of Sexuality in the Catholic Church.

00:02:59.040 And this portion of the book was, for me, a great testimony and description of your faith,

00:03:05.440 if you will.

00:03:05.840 And you wrote this,

00:03:06.580 As a convert to the Catholic faith, late in life, I was overwhelmed to discover the bountiful

00:03:12.300 graciousness of the church.

00:03:14.080 It was like a banquet where you could never even taste all the foods offered for free.

00:03:18.800 And one of my first experiences was the mysterious power of the exposed blessed sacrament.

00:03:24.160 I couldn't bear to be close, and I had to move to the back of the church.

00:03:28.380 I tried again to come close, and I had to move away.

00:03:31.100 And this was my experience of Peter saying to Jesus,

00:03:33.560 Depart from me, for I am a sinful man, O Lord.

00:03:38.380 That's where you come from, a place of vibrant and humble faith.

00:03:44.620 I was really moved by that.

00:03:47.720 I feel it's a real testimony of what I've seen in your faith life.

00:03:52.760 So, to start, you say in your book that you give an impressive sort of overview of the

00:04:01.320 situation in the church with this horrific sexual abuse crisis.

00:04:06.040 And I'll read it.

00:04:06.580 You say,

00:04:06.880 For non-believers, this is a welcome opportunity to bring down the church. 1.00

00:04:11.540 For the baptized heathens, you say, it is a reason to leave the church. 1.00

00:04:16.400 But for believers and friends of Jesus, it is a cause of suffering within the church,

00:04:22.140 the mystical body of Christ.

00:04:26.340 What do you say to that?

00:04:28.460 I mean, for me, honestly, poetic, beautiful language to describe this most serious of,

00:04:35.900 you know, calamities for the church right now. 0.94

00:04:41.620 Sexual abuse through priests is just unbelievably awful. 0.98

00:04:49.360 Sexual abuse by anybody of an adult with a child 0.99

00:04:54.460 devastates the soul of the young person.

00:05:00.880 But sexual abuse through priests not only devastates the psyche or the soul of the person,

00:05:08.280 but probably the faith. 0.92

00:05:11.220 It is very, very hard for a person if you put your trust in a priest and then you are sexually abused.

00:05:21.060 I know of cases, personally, of people who just have abandoned the church altogether,

00:05:29.120 abandoned their faith in Christ.

00:05:32.180 So that this is happening in such a vast amount in the church is just,

00:05:41.420 I'm missing the words, it is absolutely terrible.

00:05:46.180 And, of course, this is, I mean, the church couldn't be stabbed more into its heart than by this crisis.

00:05:59.880 And people who always turned against the church, they used to say,

00:06:05.220 had to go back in history quite a long time, point at the crusades,

00:06:09.760 point at the witch burning, to say how terrible the church is, the Catholic church. 0.73

00:06:15.160 Now they don't have to go back that far. 0.98

00:06:18.320 They just have to say here, abuse, abuse, abuse, abuse.

00:06:23.640 Of course, there's a dilemma with this issue because the world is pressing the church,

00:06:32.760 well, probably always, but has been pressing the church ever since the Second Vatican Council

00:06:38.980 to reformulate the sexual moral theology.

00:06:45.680 And so on the one hand, they want the church to liberalize its teaching.

00:06:52.780 On the other hand, they have to point to the church and say,

00:06:56.500 here is sexual laissez-faire.

00:06:59.320 Of course, abuse is simply a terrible sin,

00:07:01.480 but priests having affairs with the same-sex people, and so on and so on.

00:07:08.040 How would we react to this?

00:07:10.320 And as you just read that,

00:07:13.600 if you are an enemy of the church, have always been,

00:07:17.280 of course, you use that against the church.

00:07:20.120 And you will not look to the horrific amount of sexual abuse in ordinary society,

00:07:28.140 which is much, much bigger in percentage than it is in the church.

00:07:32.020 That is not even an issue.

00:07:34.880 But it's the church, the church, the church, the church.

00:07:37.960 And the other possibility, well, the possibility for a believer 0.99

00:07:48.080 is to stay in the church and suffer with the church.

00:07:54.480 And that is the case for anybody who loves the church.

00:07:57.800 And you read out what I said about my conversion.

00:08:02.180 Yes, I love the church.

00:08:03.860 And I still love the church.

00:08:05.440 And it has always been a church of sinners.

00:08:08.940 And it is still a church of sinners.

00:08:12.620 Absolutely.

00:08:13.940 One of the most striking things in your book,

00:08:17.680 particularly because, you know,

00:08:19.380 you have this book with a chapter of Pope Benedict Emeritus in it.

00:08:24.800 You have a chapter or the foreword of the book by Cardinal Müller.

00:08:29.860 You have another contribution in the book by eminent author in Canada, Michael O'Brien.

00:08:38.040 And one of the striking things is that you address, very frankly,

00:08:42.400 the cause behind the crisis as a homosexuality, 1.00

00:08:47.200 rather than what's been popularly, you know, bandied about clericalism. 0.52

00:08:51.760 To see clericalism, you say, the improper exercise of ecclesial power as the cause of the sexual abuse by priests

00:09:00.560 means veiling its deep-seated roots, you wrote.

00:09:04.900 And you wrote further that the only abuse is the problem for most bishops and the media 0.68

00:09:12.540 is not homosexuality practiced by so many priests and bishops,

00:09:15.940 and even up to the highest levels of the hierarchy.

00:09:20.700 What led you actually to recognize homosexuality at the heart of this crisis?

00:09:26.960 It is very simple.

00:09:29.220 There are three major reports about homosexuality in the church, 0.56

00:09:35.140 about abuse, sexual abuse in the church.

00:09:37.880 One is the Pennsylvania Grand Jury Report, which came out in 2018.

00:09:42.420 That is the report of the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in 2004.

00:09:49.380 And there's a report of the Los Angeles Times of 2002.

00:09:54.440 And Professor Sullins, an emeritus of sociology, a Catholic priest,

00:10:01.820 analyzed these studies and other reports around the world.

00:10:07.500 And the fact is that nearly 80% of sexual abuse is men to young men,

00:10:17.380 priests to young boys, preferably in the age of puberty or just after.

00:10:26.380 This pure, beautiful body of a young lad seems to be the most attractive.

00:10:32.360 And if it's 80%, so what is going on, it's homosexual abuse. 0.85

00:10:37.960 So we should deal with the issue of homosexuality in the church. 0.85

00:10:43.480 And the same report by Father Sullins states that the percentage of homosexuals

00:10:51.820 among the priesthood is eight times higher than in the average of society.

00:10:56.820 So it is obvious we have a problem and a very, very sad fact is and

00:11:05.860 understandable that at the big synod, which was called by Pope Francis to Rome,

00:11:13.080 I think it was in February, calling the heads of all bishop conferences of the world

00:11:19.040 to Rome to deal with the abuse crisis, the word homosexuality wasn't mentioned.

00:11:25.940 It is like a big, big elephant in the room and nobody wants to take notice of the elephant.

00:11:33.420 And that shows there's something very deeply wrong within the church.

00:11:40.080 Absolutely.

00:11:41.480 You even mention in your book that homosexuality actually in the clergy is not all that new.

00:11:48.000 It's been addressed by other popes.

00:11:49.920 Yes.

00:11:50.920 Yes.

00:11:52.480 Well, there are reports and books were out who pointed to the network and lobby groups

00:12:04.640 of homosexuality within the church already in, very early in 1982.

00:12:12.940 A priest called Enrique Rueda, I'm quoting him in our book, described the book is called

00:12:21.420 The Homosexual Network, Private Lives and Public Policy. 0.65

00:12:25.820 It was published in 1982. 0.56

00:12:28.420 And already then, there were huge networks of homosexual priests, bishops, cardinals,

00:12:38.960 grabbing or holding, getting into power positions within the church. 0.97

00:12:45.180 And here you may be able to speak about clericalism, because clericalism, to my mind, means abuse 0.73

00:12:51.780 of power of clerical, of power within the church and the homosexual network within the church 0.87

00:12:59.220 is using their power positions of getting more and more and more influence, influence on naming

00:13:07.820 which bishops will be nominated, who will be the spiritual and the rector of a priest seminar,

00:13:15.240 who, what will be the criteria for accepting priests or young men into the priest seminary.

00:13:25.320 There's also a book, which I already quoted in my Global Sexual Revolution, a very disturbing book,

00:13:34.280 by a man called Michael S. Rose, subtitled How Liberals Brought Corruption Into the Catholic Church.

00:13:45.240 published in 2002.

00:13:48.620 So it was, it's actually all in the open, but the church did not deal with it, or tried to deal.

00:13:57.660 Pope Benedict published a document about homosexuals not being accepted into the priest seminar

00:14:06.880 if they're deep-rooted homosexual tendencies.

00:14:09.120 But somehow, the lobby was and is so strong that it still holds the power, and it is very, very difficult

00:14:24.360 to clear and clean the church of this problem.

00:14:30.700 Yeah, absolutely.

00:14:32.460 I mean, you had the, as you mentioned in your book, the forbidding of even people with established 1.00

00:14:41.320 homosexual orientation from entering into seminary, and that seems all to be done away with,

00:14:49.700 all to be being ignored.

00:14:51.060 A couple weeks ago, actually, I spoke with Professor Janet Smith on this show, who taught at a U.S.

00:14:57.700 seminary, and she told me about rampant homosexuality in some dioceses in the United States.

00:15:03.180 In fact, she just sort of took an early retirement from her teaching position to study this question

00:15:09.420 of sexual abuse in the church, because it's such a crisis.

00:15:11.700 And you said in your book, and I quote again, now it can no longer be denied that many bishops

00:15:19.720 in the U.S. and many other nations covered up or even promoted homosexual subculture in

00:15:26.680 seminaries, and that at least 15 U.S. bishops, among them Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, are themselves

00:15:32.460 accused of sexual abuse of minors and dependents.

00:15:34.880 But you add, no doubt it is a minority of priests and bishops who are actively entangled in the

00:15:41.820 LGBT network, but it looks as if the majority looked away, concealed, or sympathized.

00:15:49.400 Would you speak to that?

00:15:50.860 Yes.

00:15:51.680 You know, I'm getting the impression that there was an atmosphere in the church, maybe over 0.98

00:15:58.680 centuries, that homosexual abusing boys for homosexual satisfaction isn't really a big problem. 0.98

00:16:09.480 Let them do it in private. 0.98

00:16:11.340 We will not deal with it.

00:16:12.660 It seems like this is a very old heritage.

00:16:16.660 My knowledge of church history is not big enough, but I read statements like, as a homosexual,

00:16:26.540 you might not be able to marry, you don't want to marry, so make a career in the church.

00:16:33.020 And even in our time, I've spoken to older priests.

00:16:37.660 They do not have a true awareness of the severe and deep and lifelong damage that this does to

00:16:48.340 young people, young men, if they are abused in that way.

00:16:53.220 It seems there is really a lack of awareness, and this is a kind of clericalism which has

00:17:01.320 to go.

00:17:03.140 And, you know, now we are in the age of psychology, and we have to acknowledge the depth of the

00:17:11.060 destruction of the soul of a person if that happens.

00:17:14.240 What the church is doing, I don't get the sense that there is, you know, an erschrecken in 1.00

00:17:23.440 German, a real shock in what is going on in our church. 1.00

00:17:29.480 We must change that because the lobby is so powerful.

00:17:34.560 There is not, I don't get a sense we really have to purify, we really have to clean this

00:17:40.520 church.

00:17:40.820 We have to come back to the teaching of Jesus Christ and the Bible, the beautiful, beautiful

00:17:48.000 teaching of the Christian teaching on sexuality, marriage, and family, and make that shine.

00:18:01.820 Inspire people with it, because we have something to inspire people.

00:18:05.900 The world only thinks, oh, they're taking away everything which is lustful, you know, and

00:18:10.840 which is enjoyable.

00:18:12.220 No, no, we have this desire for love, this deep, deep longing for love.

00:18:18.400 Every person has it.

00:18:20.560 Every straight or sexual person has this deep longing for love in the heart.

00:18:26.980 And the mother church, the calling of our mother church is to show people the way how that

00:18:40.700 deep longing can be fulfilled.

00:18:43.160 And it is not fulfilled by any kind of promiscuity, any kind of satisfaction of your body, because

00:18:49.540 we are one, we are soul and body always together, and only if soul and body are, you know, in

00:18:59.980 the sexual act, if soul and body are equally engaged, and it is an act of mutual giving in

00:19:08.980 love, only then will that desire be fulfilled, that longing for deep love be fulfilled.

00:19:17.900 And this is what the church should teach, but it has given up to teach it ever since the

00:19:23.120 rebellion against the Enzitrica Humanae Vitae.

00:19:26.160 Yeah.

00:19:27.360 Yeah.

00:19:28.140 You were, you were, you are from Germany.

00:19:31.960 You wrote in your book about what's going on in Germany.

00:19:36.520 You talked about how others are using the, this time in the church, this historic hour,

00:19:42.760 as you say, to attempt the final abolition of the celibacy rule and turn the church's sexual 0.51

00:19:48.760 morality on its head.

00:19:50.300 Um, you write about German bishops, um, who are not bishops, excuse me.

00:19:56.580 It was the, um, the, uh, German bishops website, or at least a website funded largely by them,

00:20:04.060 which basically talked about the only way to solve this crisis is to welcome homosexual 0.98

00:20:09.760 priests and to acknowledge them as equals.

00:20:12.880 Um, and as I understand it from your book, it was the, the German bishops conference gives

00:20:17.800 this website, which features this article, 2 million or no, 2 million, uh, euros a year.

00:20:25.280 Yes.

00:20:25.960 That's unbelievable.

00:20:26.880 Well, we have come to a place to, in, in, in history, where now the attack on the teaching

00:20:36.460 of the church can be driven openly, unashamed.

00:20:42.300 You can just come out and say, I want to have homosexual couples blessed.

00:20:47.500 I want, we want a rector of a seminary.

00:20:51.000 We will accept, uh, priests with homosexual, uh, orientation into our seminary, uh, which 0.96

00:20:59.060 is backed by the bishop, uh, today in LifeSide News, I learned, uh, of a book, uh, which has

00:21:06.860 just come out by a German, uh, German, um, priest.

00:21:12.040 His name is Bernd Wönkebüscher, and his book is called To Be Unashamedly Catholic.

00:21:19.180 And he just says, I'm a homosexual, uh, he probably, I haven't seen the book.

00:21:26.840 I just read that, uh, in, uh, on LifeSide News today, uh, whether he actually admits that

00:21:35.020 he's practicing it or whether he just says, I have that orientation, I don't know.

00:21:39.600 I probably, it's probably left to the imagination of the reader, and he calls on Bishop Overbeck

00:21:48.520 of Essen, uh, who said, yes, we have to change our attitude to homosexuality.

00:21:55.100 And so he's now unashamed, he can just put it out, uh, and say, here I am, I want the

00:22:02.280 church to change.

00:22:03.520 And of course, he's not the only one.

00:22:05.160 If that happens on the official website of the Catholic Church in Germany, and we all

00:22:11.180 know Cardinal Marx, uh, is the head of the bishops' conference.

00:22:14.680 So I suppose he has a word to say what happens on that website.

00:22:20.020 If that happens there, and, uh, why shouldn't any priest come out and say, I'm gay, and that

00:22:27.080 is good, and that is fine.

00:22:29.340 So this is what is happening, and it doesn't have to be covered up anymore.

00:22:33.100 It's just out in the open now, and it's, you know, people do not, since there hasn't been

00:22:43.940 any catechesis of sexual morality, family, and marriage, since Humana Vita, basically.

00:22:51.800 You know, I'm in the church since 1997, Humana Vita was 68, but I've been to thousands of

00:22:59.140 holy masses.

00:22:59.880 I go to mass several times a week, of course, every Sunday.

00:23:04.020 I have not heard a single homily about sexual morality in the church.

00:23:11.100 More than that, priests who do it are rebuked by their bishop.

00:23:17.300 I know facts like this.

00:23:20.340 So people do not know anymore what, uh, what the church has to give, how the church can inspire

00:23:29.440 uh, as I already said, a person to search for the fulfillment of the longing for love in

00:23:39.220 a way, on a path, but can actually be fulfilled.

00:23:44.120 Yeah.

00:23:44.700 If I might ask, I mean, Germany seems to be, at least right now anyway, uh, the, the sort 1.00

00:23:51.720 of leading country in the world where the church is suffering the most, the church is

00:23:56.160 most betraying Christ in it.

00:23:58.140 I'm so sad to say that, uh, but, you know, there isn't a big difference to the Netherlands

00:24:03.060 or to Belgium or, uh, or to the UK.

00:24:06.000 I'm not so sure, but, but the, the, it's sort of most outspoken perhaps, yeah.

00:24:12.240 Right.

00:24:12.500 Right now.

00:24:13.040 So, but, but what happens to bring Germany, but, but also, you know, these other countries

00:24:18.140 in the Netherlands and so on, do you have any clue what might've happened to bring the

00:24:21.760 church to such a state?

00:24:23.800 One could go back in history a few centuries, of course.

00:24:27.180 Luther came from Germany, protestanten, Luther protests against Rome, and, uh, this has shaped

00:24:37.140 German idealistic philosophy.

00:24:40.060 Friedrich Hegel, who had immense influence on philosophy, uh, was influenced by Martin Luther.

00:24:46.320 So this is a tradition of 500 years now, and it has built up the so-called anti-römische

00:24:53.580 effect that's a constant in, in, in, in Germany or in, in, in the German church, uh, deep-rooted

00:25:02.060 sentiment, uh, um, effect, affect, a feeling against the Roman Catholic church.

00:25:10.800 And, uh, as I said, um, I, my first pope was John Paul II when I entered the church, how

00:25:18.900 wonderful that was to be able to look up to that shining light, uh, of John Paul II.

00:25:26.980 And he was opposed like crazy from the German bishops, uh, for, for all this debate about

00:25:33.560 the, uh, abortion and would the church to, uh, advise people and then give them a slip

00:25:40.700 of paper, which allows them to abort and so on.

00:25:42.760 That was the, a big fight with John Paul II between the German church and John Paul II.

00:25:47.980 And at some point, John Paul II said, you must do it that way.

00:25:51.940 And they found other ways to, to give that, uh, document to women who want to abort. 0.98

00:25:58.220 Then Benedict.

00:26:01.080 Benedict.

00:26:02.480 A German, you know, this great, great intellectual light.

00:26:08.420 By the way, he comes, uh, his family at home is just 20 minutes from where I'm just sitting

00:26:14.420 here now from, from where I live, true Bavarian and comes from a very simple Bavarian family.

00:26:20.840 And there's this incredible intellectual and faithful light.

00:26:27.320 We could have rejoiced.

00:26:30.460 Germany with this guilt of the Holocaust could have sort of grown and become upright again. 0.66

00:26:38.420 because obviously God has forgiven if he calls, uh, for a German to be the Pope and the representative

00:26:46.560 of Christ on this earth.

00:26:49.140 There's no, nowhere more Heinzeligkeit, uh, enmity, uh, what's the word, uh, animosity?

00:26:58.700 Is that, is that, is that, yeah, uh, against Pope Benedict than from his own country?

00:27:04.300 Yeah.

00:27:04.520 Yeah.

00:27:05.080 Yeah.

00:27:05.320 And he did what he could in 2010.

00:27:07.740 He addressed the abuse crisis.

00:27:10.120 I heard that when he was, uh, the, the prefect of the congregation of faith, he spent every single

00:27:16.260 Friday dealing with the filth and dirt and the abysmal sins of sexual abuse.

00:27:24.020 He was the one who tried to fight against it, but, uh, the powers in place are stronger and

00:27:30.680 still to the present day.

00:27:31.920 Amazing.

00:27:32.920 Amazing.

00:27:33.980 So you, uh, in your book, you actually said that, um, about the words of Pope Francis,

00:27:40.340 who am I to judge?

00:27:41.520 You said they may go down in history as the fanfare for relativization of Christian sexual 0.83

00:27:49.740 morality.

00:27:50.760 What do you, what do you mean there?

00:27:52.980 Yes.

00:27:53.520 I remember very well when I read that in the paper, who am I to judge?

00:28:03.940 Who else on this planet is there who should judge about sexual morality?

00:28:10.640 Uh, who should speak clearly, who should inspire the world, uh, but he backed back, uh, he was

00:28:20.520 asked by the journalist, in fact, um, how would he deal with the LGBT lobby and so on?

00:28:26.100 And his only answer was, who am I to judge?

00:28:32.560 This is, that's where we are.

00:28:35.380 Uh, we do not have clear direction.

00:28:37.920 Uh, we now, on a, on a much larger scale in Germany, we have now, the, the bishops have

00:28:47.100 agreed to start a so-called synodala process, a process of the synod, getting all the bishops

00:28:54.680 and, and the liberal lay organization, central committee, they have a major player in this

00:29:03.480 and they'll always go against Romans and, and, and the traditional teaching of the church.

00:29:08.540 So they come together and the intent is the proclaimed intent is to speak about sexual morality,

00:29:17.100 uh, namely homosexuality, uh, the ordination of women and celibacy. 0.84

00:29:24.020 And this, these same issues will be dealt with at the Amazonas synod coming up in October in Rome.

00:29:33.120 Uh, we have probably all read, uh, about the very, very doubtful and critical, uh, instrumentum laboris,

00:29:44.040 the paper which prepares the synod.

00:29:45.880 They will have the same issues there, but they will have something even gray, well, even, uh, next,

00:29:53.620 a next limit, which is crossed, a next barrier, which is crossed, that is, uh, paganism, opening the doors

00:30:01.480 for paganism, outright paganism into the church.

00:30:05.480 Mm-hmm.

00:30:06.480 Yeah.

00:30:07.480 All, all, all in the guise of, of sort of honoring, uh, indigenous, uh, religion and so on.

00:30:13.960 And yet, uh, somehow completely ignoring the fact that we have to bring them to Christ to, uh, as,

00:30:22.340 as we reported on LifeSite the other day that Benedict, when he addressed these issues of indigenous religions,

00:30:28.220 he talked about, no, how they have to be brought to Christ, and then when they embrace Christ,

00:30:33.120 they can bring all their beautiful other traditions into things.

00:30:37.060 But it's that embrace of Christ that gives them their real and true identity.

00:30:40.600 Exactly.

00:30:41.400 I've spoken to African priests.

00:30:44.240 Uh, there are some African priests now in, in taking positions in, in our German parishes.

00:30:49.920 Uh, and they didn't talk about, uh, imperialism of the West.

00:30:57.820 They said, you brought us the faith.

00:31:01.240 We are thankful that the West brought us the faith, and now we can give something back.

00:31:06.800 Isn't that beautiful?

00:31:07.860 Mm-hmm.

00:31:08.340 So, everybody, and you, you started at the beginning, uh, quoting me that the, for me,

00:31:14.680 the church was like a big banquet where I couldn't even, even taste all the foods.

00:31:19.920 So, anybody who has discovered the wealth and richness of the Catholic tradition will be thankful for that

00:31:32.760 and will turn away from esotericism and all these a thousand other methods which try to,

00:31:41.860 which are substitutes for a true living relationship to our living God, Jesus Christ, and the Father, and the Holy Spirit.

00:31:52.540 Uh, and that the church is now actually, uh, opening the door back to paganism.

00:31:59.800 Uh, what are we to say as Catholics?

00:32:03.720 What are we to say?

00:32:05.440 I can only console myself by saying there is a plan of God.

00:32:15.120 Mm-hmm.

00:32:15.760 God became man.

00:32:19.060 God went to the cross.

00:32:21.500 Jesus resurrected from the cross.

00:32:23.460 He rose back into heaven.

00:32:25.000 This whole 2,000 years of history, of Christian history, changing the face of this earth and changing millions and millions and millions and millions of hearts.

00:32:37.340 Mm-hmm.

00:32:38.020 God is not abandoning, abandoning the human being.

00:32:42.440 And we have all the, I mean, we have it all in the Bible.

00:32:45.380 We have, um, uh, St. Paul, who says, uh, first we have to have the great apostasy before the second coming of Christ.

00:32:57.600 We have Jesus Christ in very, very clear terms telling us what is ahead of us before his second coming.

00:33:07.880 You know, it will be tough.

00:33:09.620 It will be really tough.

00:33:10.940 That is, by the way, uh, the, the theme also of a book of Michael O'Brien, Apocalypse, Apocalypse, which I translated into, had a great joy and thought it was so important that I translated it into a German.

00:33:26.060 It has come out recently in English, uh, in, in, in, in Canada.

00:33:31.400 Absolutely.

00:33:32.260 And we featured Michael on our show as well.

00:33:34.420 I mean, we, we, we, we are told in the Bible, it will be tough at the end, but there will be the new Jerusalem.

00:33:45.860 So we Christians are called upon whatever happens to grow in our faith to a degree that we can be a light of hope to our brothers and sisters.

00:34:00.360 I think this is what we are called to.

00:34:03.060 Absolutely.

00:34:03.620 Absolutely.

00:34:04.380 Absolutely.

00:34:04.820 I think, uh, in the catechism, uh, they described this sort of as the mystical body of Christ, the church going through a similar passion, uh, that Christ himself did.

00:34:15.580 And I, I think the, the position of us in the church, loving the church, um, is, uh, is one of our lady who had to watch, uh, our Lord be crucified, had to accept that as the will of God, uh, offer that up.

00:34:31.780 And we're, we're, we're, we're, I mean, called to still witness to the truth.

00:34:35.800 So despite the fact that the apostles, uh, even in the face of Jesus's death, um, still had to give witness to the truth, even though that cost them, it cost them all their lives.

00:34:47.260 Uh, except John, of course, they tried to kill him, but it didn't work.

00:34:50.500 Um, since they were so disappointed that they didn't, didn't even recognize Jesus when he was walking next to them, you know, because they thought everything was lost.

00:35:00.900 Um, since, since we're talking about, uh, the Pope and, and, uh, I wanted to ask you too, since you're an academic, um, there's been a new thing that happened in Rome, uh, just recently, uh, you had the John Paul II Institute, this for the marriage and family, this beautiful Institute founded by, uh, John Paul II and, and, uh, given in charge of to Cardinal Carlo Cafara, who was a, a great friend of his.

00:35:30.680 And, and, um, we were close to him as well, who, who, uh, since passed away, but, um, this, basically the Institute has been, uh, dismantled.

00:35:40.800 It was, uh, given over, uh, in charge to, uh, first of all, the Pope, uh, did a modu proprio, a, a personal communication, changing the focus of the John Paul II Institute for Marriage and Family to then concentrate rather on that, but on to, uh, Amoris Laetitia.

00:35:59.320 He gave it to the charge of the very controversial, uh, Archbishop Paglia, who, who, uh, ran first the Academy for Life, then the Pontifical, excuse me, first the Pontifical Council for the Family, then the Academy for Life.

00:36:12.620 Um, a very controversial character for very many reasons, but then, um, he basically suspended all the professors, um, keep, retains now a few and dismisses the most important professors that were in connection with, uh, John Paul II.

00:36:30.680 And, uh, just wanted to get your reaction, uh, to that whole scenario, uh, since you yourself are an academic.

00:36:35.840 Yes, thank you for describing it in detail, uh, it is absolutely shocking.

00:36:41.960 Uh, the Church hasn't proclaimed its beautiful teaching, uh, and of, of, uh, sexuality, marriage, and family, and has not really made use of the incredible richness of the heritage of John Paul II.

00:37:00.060 And, uh, the theology of the body and all the encyclicals and so on, such, such wealth and richness.

00:37:07.400 And there we have this institute.

00:37:09.440 I think it was founded right away after, no, it was actually John Paul II wanted to proclaim the founding on the very, very day, 13th of May, when he was assassinated.

00:37:21.060 Mm-hmm.

00:37:21.900 I think it was the very day.

00:37:23.580 So we see, oh, wow, there's something big going on.

00:37:27.320 So the institute was founded.

00:37:29.860 Exceptional professors, uh, were leading it.

00:37:33.620 Professor Noriega and Professor Livio Melina, they were the, the, the backbones of the institute.

00:37:40.480 And, uh, and other professors who were experts on the teaching of John Paul II.

00:37:45.340 The institute was called John Paul II Institute for Marriage and Family.

00:37:51.240 It was renamed, and, uh, the, the dismantling already began, as you mentioned.

00:37:56.780 But now, just the decapitation is happening.

00:38:01.720 Just with one stroke of the sword, the main people are just dismissed from one day to the other.

00:38:08.580 Uh, even on a legal level, uh, not to speak of a level of compassion, which we hear so often, uh, this would be impossible in a secular university setting to just dismiss people from one, one day to the other, to leave the students who have put their trust in the institution and the professors who want to do their exams there, just leave them dangling in the air.

00:38:33.780 Yeah.

00:38:34.260 Uh, and, you know, that, that it goes on and on.

00:38:39.820 We have this drawing back, drawing back from the teaching of the church for a few decades.

00:38:45.260 And now the think tank, the core institution that has educated hundreds of professors who, who are able to bring the teaching into the world and to just decapitate it and put people in charge who do not share, uh, the, the wonderful inspiration and love of John Paul II.

00:39:11.460 Um, is, uh, is, again, I'm missing the words, very, very, very, very sad.

00:39:19.520 Mm-hmm.

00:39:19.780 There's a lot of protest.

00:39:20.960 I immediately wrote a letter myself to, to the leading people, uh, being aware that, uh, that, uh, there's very little chance that it will have an influence.

00:39:33.020 Uh, but I still, uh, we do our work anyway.

00:39:36.380 We have to speak out for the truth, uh, wherever we can.

00:39:41.160 You do it on a very large scale with LifeSide News.

00:39:43.920 I do it on my scale.

00:39:45.200 Uh, and we do not look, uh, whether, uh, we, it's not a, a criteria for our activity, whether we were successful or not.

00:39:55.960 Uh, we, we have the, we speak with, uh, David fighting Goliath, the battle belongs to the Lord.

00:40:06.260 Amen.

00:40:07.180 Amen.

00:40:08.220 Um, actually in terms of reaction, you, you, you do talk about that in your book.

00:40:12.440 Um, you, you talk about, um, anger as a reaction, uh, to, to the sexual abuse crisis.

00:40:19.340 But I think also in terms of this current crisis in the, in the church, in the hierarchy of the church, um, there is a lot of anger.

00:40:26.720 Can you explain what you meant by anger?

00:40:29.600 Well, the first reaction of something disagreeable happens to us is anger.

00:40:34.380 And when we feel angry, we have high energy, high adrenaline, and we feel strong.

00:40:39.120 If you go into a process of looking beneath that anger, any kind of anger, whether about the happenings in the church or anywhere else, uh, you really find sadness and suffering.

00:40:55.280 And when you are in a state of sadness and suffering, you don't feel strong at all.

00:41:01.100 So we prefer to be angry and start petitions and, and, and, and, uh, but I think it's important.

00:41:09.120 It's important to deep, dig down to that true feeling of great sadness that our mother church is not so, you know, is, is so devastated at the moment.

00:41:29.600 Uh, and that is, uh, really great suffering.

00:41:32.900 And I suppose who suffers most is Jesus Christ and his mother, Mary.

00:41:39.120 Uh, what that suffering can mean in eternal glory.

00:41:42.800 I don't know, but there are some spiritual teachers who say comfort Jesus in his suffering.

00:41:51.360 And there must be some kind of suffering that we go off, uh, the, off this, the narrow path to eternity, to that degree in our present time.

00:42:05.140 Any one of us, any one of us, we are not forced to do that.

00:42:10.740 Uh, and if we remain faithful and true to the truth and to the teaching, we will have to pay, but we can walk the path.

00:42:22.620 And we have lots and lots of food to walk that path, uh, especially also through the digital, digital media.

00:42:32.800 So we can, if we don't have the priest in the parish who gives us nourishment, which very often is not the case, or, and then we can actually find sources of, of nourishment for our path and our soul, uh, through the media.

00:42:51.060 So, and you're doing a great job.

00:42:53.700 I do want to say that John Henry, you're really doing an incredible job with life sadness.

00:42:59.620 Thank you for all that work.

00:43:01.440 Praise God.

00:43:02.480 You have in your book, uh, I, I consider a really beautiful passage.

00:43:06.680 You, you talk about a solution to the crisis and I'm, I'm just going to read it out here.

00:43:11.920 Cause I think it was just so beautiful.

00:43:13.100 As I said, at the top of the show, uh, I find a lot of your prose, very poetic.

00:43:16.880 You say, just imagine the bishops and cardinals ensnared in the abuse crisis, initiating a penitential movement and leading the faithful in prayer and fasting.

00:43:27.720 Just imagine bishops who would use their power to clean the church with the full knowledge that this would put them on the way of the cross.

00:43:36.640 In Nineveh, everyone from the king to the cattle repented and God spared the city.

00:43:43.720 What a testimony that would be to the world.

00:43:47.160 This is the only way for the church to regain its moral authority.

00:43:51.200 Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

00:43:55.660 Yes.

00:43:57.340 Beautiful.

00:43:58.480 But you, you added there that you, you, you seem to doubt that this will come about.

00:44:04.800 You, you, you suggested that more probably than a conversion and repentance, the church would be cleansed through persecution.

00:44:11.740 Can you explain that a little?

00:44:14.700 I haven't seen any bishop in, in a position, in a high position or a cardinal who has actually come out and said to the world, I am sorry for what I did.

00:44:30.320 And it would be such an incredible relief if that happened.

00:44:35.780 Because anybody who walks the path with Jesus Christ all the time comes to, recognizes his own sins and will say to God and to the priests in confession, I'm really sorry for what I did.

00:44:52.520 And if you do that, you have an incredible relief and you can, you know, you have a compassionate God and you can continue the path.

00:45:05.220 You can stand up again in the face, in the light of God and continue to walk until the next fall.

00:45:11.660 And so we go through our life.

00:45:13.660 So this is, would be such an incredible gift to the world.

00:45:19.900 If a bishop, actually a high person, the church, church would actually do that.

00:45:26.160 Possibly he would, whatever the reaction may be, but I'm waiting for that to happen.

00:45:32.880 I'm saying it is more likely that the church will be cleansed by persecution.

00:45:41.040 We are moving into that.

00:45:43.400 It is increasingly costly in many respects to stand publicly to the Christian faith, especially in sexual morality.

00:45:56.900 We will be cast out in our personal environment, in our professional environment.

00:46:01.880 We will be covered with lawsuits up to the, to the Supreme courts.

00:46:07.820 And the lobby is really after anybody who speaks out to actually ruin their existence.

00:46:14.720 Many cases, we know many cases like that.

00:46:18.260 So we know it's, it's tough if we do that.

00:46:22.000 And the higher you are, the more influential your position is, the more they will get after you.

00:46:27.560 So we are in this process.

00:46:30.700 I'm describing it in my book, The Global Sexual Revolution.

00:46:33.860 That's why it shows this subtitle, Destruction of Freedom, the Name of Freedom.

00:46:38.660 We are in this process.

00:46:40.400 And I have no doubt that there is a new kind of totalitarianism on its way.

00:46:49.960 We are already experiencing it.

00:46:53.960 Many of the prophets, inverted commas of our time, point to that.

00:46:59.780 This is where we are heading to, let us cling to Jesus Christ and to his mother, consecrate ourselves to his mother, Mary,

00:47:13.760 and ask for the grace to be strong enough when these processes increase.

00:47:19.520 After all, the mother of Jesus, Mary, said in Fatima, my immaculate heart will triumph.

00:47:33.700 And we can have little experiences of resurrection and triumph in our daily lives today.

00:47:45.640 Amen.

00:47:46.840 I wanted to even conclude with this little passage from your book, which I found so very moving.

00:47:54.840 And in all honesty, I think it's very true that it is a solution for sure for priests and those who find themselves in hardship with all of the sexual temptations that's out there.

00:48:10.000 Just, I'll read it out.

00:48:12.080 I was so impressed by this.

00:48:13.440 It applies not only to priests, it applies to all of us today, because we're all being dragged down in this sexual revolution.

00:48:21.900 And it is so harmful for everybody.

00:48:24.340 And you wrote, with regards to Our Lady, as you were just saying,

00:48:26.740 Every celibate priest who reveres the mother of God and allows her to work in his life,

00:48:34.340 is turned toward the feminine and the maternal, the pure and beautiful, and can drink from this well.

00:48:43.140 From her he will gain the strength to live in chastity and celibacy.

00:48:47.720 An eternal reward is due to all those who dare to stand up against the powerful pressure of the times

00:48:54.960 and to risk being shunned and defamed and deprived of their honor and material existence.

00:49:02.020 They are the wells of clear water from which men can quench their thirst for truth.

00:49:07.760 God will reward them in eternity.

00:49:12.000 That's from Gabriella Kubi's book, The Sexual Abuse in the Catholic Church.

00:49:22.840 Gabriella, what a great honor it was for me to be with you on this episode of the John Henry Weston Show.

00:49:28.820 Thank you very much, John Henry.

00:49:30.360 It is a great honor for me that we had this talk.

00:49:32.840 Thank you very much indeed.

00:49:34.100 May God bless you and God bless you all.

00:49:36.380 Until the next John Henry Weston Show, we'll see you then.

00:49:42.000 See you then.

The John-Henry Westen Show - September 04, 2019

Clergy sex abuse in the Catholic Church： it’s about homosexuality

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