The John-Henry Westen Show - Dark night of the soul： Faithful Catholic escapes death from coronavirus

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome to the John Henry Weston Show. You're going to want to stick around this time.

00:00:03.700 We are talking to Dan Burke, a spiritual writer, very well known from EWTN, formerly now with the

00:00:09.340 Avila Institute. He just came out of hospital a little while ago after experiencing a horribly

00:00:14.500 bad case of coronavirus. He thought he was going to die. He had his will written. He was in isolation.

00:00:19.280 Deep spiritual darkness, he explains. He also talks about this as a chastisement and about how

00:00:24.820 it is connected to receiving communion in the hand. Let's stick around for this and listen closely.

00:00:48.860 Before we begin, let me just remind you to please like this video. Also hit the subscribe

00:00:54.080 button below and click on the bell so you'll be informed of new episodes as they are released.

00:01:00.880 Let's begin as we always do with the sign of the cross. In the name of the Father and of the Son

00:01:05.540 and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Dan Burke is someone who was very well known as part of EWTN News,

00:01:15.100 also someone who is the founder and president of the Avila Institute, which is an institute for

00:01:20.760 spiritual formation. He's written many books on spiritual formation of Catholics, a very great

00:01:27.260 believer and lover of our Lord Jesus who just experienced coronavirus. Dan, welcome to the

00:01:32.980 program. Good to be with you, John Henry. And your story has obviously gone viral everywhere. I saw you

00:01:40.200 on Taylor Marshall. You were on Fox News discussing the suffering that you endured. We'd like to get into

00:01:46.760 that a little bit, but also wanted to discuss something that you mentioned on Taylor's program

00:01:52.600 that is most fascinating and yet very little heard about the seeing the coronavirus or appreciating it

00:02:00.240 also as a chastisement or wake-up call from our Lord. So why don't you start with telling us a little

00:02:06.920 bit about yourself and about what you experienced in hospital and suffering from the coronavirus?

00:02:13.020 Well, my lungs have been in decline for a number of years already. I have chronic asthma and for

00:02:19.900 some reason they've been deteriorating, which caused me to reevaluate just how, you know, my life in

00:02:26.020 general and ultimately led to my resignation as president of EWTN News. And then, of course,

00:02:34.920 just focusing on the Avala Foundation, spiritualdirection.com, all of that. And so I remember

00:02:44.940 talking to my oldest. Actually, he reminded me when the coronavirus began to kind of appear on the

00:02:52.720 horizon. And I said, son, you just need to know that if I get that, I'm going to die. I said, my,

00:03:01.040 and I'm, you know, and I'm ready to die. If you live according to the teachings of the church,

00:03:07.260 you will be ready to die. And I, and I was. And of course, being in Lent, I'd also been doing

00:03:16.220 Stations of the Cross daily with St. Alphonsus of Gloria. And for some reason this year,

00:03:21.640 I focused on this idea of, of dying in whatever way the Lord desired. And I had made a, a purpose,

00:03:29.940 a purposeful commitment to him and resigned to whatever you want to do with me. I'll, you know,

00:03:36.200 I'll, I'd always ask for an easy death, you know, which I think all of us would like. And so those

00:03:43.220 were kind of ominous, uh, forewarnings to what was coming, um, on, uh, Stephanie and I, my wife and I

00:03:50.920 had traveled through two international airports and returned from Dallas on March the 9th. We had

00:03:57.660 no symptoms until the 17th. Uh, but things began to decline quite dramatically from there. I went into

00:04:06.060 the ER once I was, I was already having issues breathing. And then they sent me home because it

00:04:12.340 wasn't bad enough. Stephanie actually has, has had it at the same time, went into the ER too, as well

00:04:17.580 as one of our employees and, um, went home, uh, a Catholic friend who's a physician called, called

00:04:25.540 us and said, listen, um, you need to go back, but go to a different hospital. And there's, they have a,

00:04:34.440 uh, an, uh, infectious disease ward. Half their beds are open. Given your lung condition, you need to

00:04:41.540 just go back. And, um, by that time I have emergency medical equipment in my home because of my lung

00:04:49.600 issues also that I would travel with. And by that time I was using the maximum dosages of steroids

00:04:56.040 and other medications that you would get in the ER already. And my lungs were not work, were getting

00:05:03.300 worse. And so we, uh, decided to get into the, uh, into the car and drive to the hospital.

00:05:10.940 And as we got in, I had asked my wife to get me a patent paper. I wrote out my will. Um, we had begun

00:05:17.320 the process earlier previous year and never finished it. So I wrote out my will, um, because I suspected

00:05:24.640 that I was going to die. And when we separated, we both went into the ER for treatment. Um, you know,

00:05:33.580 we bait Stephanie in her mind, the way she tells it part parted with a sense that she may never see

00:05:40.620 me again and, and said some very beautiful things to me that were appropriate in the moment. I couldn't

00:05:48.220 respond well because of my breathing. Um, but obviously my heart was there. Um, so we went,

00:05:56.620 uh, so I was, uh, admitted on March 21st with, and I went to a normal through the ER. I was admitted

00:06:05.260 right away. And then I went from a normal room after the doctor saw me, they said, we need to get him

00:06:11.120 into ICU right away. So I was only in a normal room for a few hours. And then I moved again

00:06:17.360 into the ICU. Um, the, uh, you know, it's hard to describe John Henry, this situation.

00:06:28.420 I've had more, uh, surgeries than I can count. My body has never been my friend. So I've,

00:06:34.600 and I've had more hospitalizations than I can count. And I, and I've even had very beautiful,

00:06:41.520 powerful experiences in illness of offering it up for people. And, you know, my last heart

00:06:47.360 surgery, I was in such a beautiful state, just ready with the list of names. As soon as things

00:06:55.260 began to become uncomfortable, this was not like that. Uh, there was a spiritual darkness

00:07:01.420 that came with the disease as I, for me that as I entered into that ER and then the ICU and then the

00:07:10.840 radical isolation separation from my wife, that was like nothing I'd ever experienced. I don't

00:07:17.820 want to keep rambling and, and, uh, without me, I want to make sure I'm answering your questions, but

00:07:22.520 that's the, that's the entry into ICU. It got worse from there.

00:07:29.880 It's an amazing thing with this particular, uh, uh, epidemic pandemic or whatever,

00:07:35.620 that isolation factor where you're literally separated from all your loved ones. No one can

00:07:41.420 come, uh, close to you. You experienced that. I know you, you describe it as a, as a period of,

00:07:46.820 of great darkness as well. What, can you get into that a little bit more? What, what's so dark about

00:07:52.660 it? I know you experienced a lot of, um, uh, spiritual, not, not comfort, but, but, uh,

00:07:58.280 realization or, or, or whatever with your former illnesses, but this was different in that

00:08:03.100 particular way. Yeah. So there's physiological, uh, it was very painful and it was very hard to

00:08:10.160 breathe. Um, which is, uh, which is, uh, uh, uh, just I'm used to it so I can have peace in the midst

00:08:18.140 of it, but it causes a, a deep anxiety in the body because the body feels like it's drowning. Um, and so,

00:08:26.480 and once it began to move beyond my ability to treat myself, of course, then it's, it's quite

00:08:33.720 severe. So I was experiencing sort of physiological, uh, really, and it was painful. The virus is very

00:08:41.880 painful form of the, you know, flu, if you will, the way you feel when you have the flu, it was, it was

00:08:47.260 quite elevated from that. And then you enter in the ICU and of course everyone's masked up

00:08:54.240 and the nurses immediately apologized and said, I'm sorry, you need to understand we can't come

00:09:03.420 in as often as we'd normally like to, and to care for you as we would like to. Cause every time they

00:09:08.940 came in, they had to come with a layer of clothing that was only for that visit in that moment and

00:09:14.660 gloves. So they would come in, uh, uh, and then they would do whatever they needed to do for me.

00:09:21.620 Then they would exit. And as they're exiting, they had to take off the outer layer,

00:09:27.140 clean their masks. They had a, they had like, um, I don't know, a screw, uh, uh, like a,

00:09:32.780 like a welder has almost, you know, and then they had double, uh, face mask below that. And,

00:09:39.580 um, and then, and then they would have to strip off that step out of the room and then put on a

00:09:45.600 new outer outer layer. Um, and, and at one time the nurse came and apologized again to me and said,

00:09:52.440 we're running low on supplies. And so I will be in less. And so at one point, you know, this is

00:09:59.840 moving forward a bit, but as I was recovering, I actually needed to use the, not to get too graphic,

00:10:07.280 but I needed to use the bathroom rather quickly, but I could not stand on my own at that point.

00:10:13.140 So I had to, and because it was so hard to get nurses attention, I, and I'm not complaining,

00:10:18.960 don't, don't hear me, uh, complaining. It's just the way it is. I had to crawl out of my bed

00:10:25.600 across the floor into the bathroom. And by the time, you know, I mean, and the nurses eventually came,

00:10:32.660 but so the dark, so those are the, that's sort of the physiological, then there's that psychological,

00:10:39.480 but John Henry, um, there was a spiritual darkness like I've never experienced in my life ever. I,

00:10:47.620 you know, I just, uh, had a beautiful call with a cloistered, um, prioress who said that she was

00:10:54.940 weeping, you know, crying out to heaven and was so happy that we're well as a beautiful phone call

00:11:00.280 right before I got on with you. And, um, I said to her, I said, I don't, you know, I'm not a,

00:11:06.720 I don't claim to be a mystic, I, you know, or any of that. And I, what I'm about to say could be

00:11:12.440 audacious and I don't want it to be, but I, if it's possible for a human being in any way to

00:11:20.600 understand what Jesus suffered in the garden or what he suffered when he said, my God, my God,

00:11:25.640 why have you forsaken me? That darkness for me was a sliver of a sliver of whatever that was for

00:11:32.160 Jesus. The most black, uh, spiritual experience I've ever had in my life. I had no sense of God's

00:11:41.380 presence at all. Um, I, I wasn't, I didn't, uh, despair and I didn't lose faith or, or hope,

00:11:49.820 but I was despairing on it in a way. I mean, I was weeping a lot. I was offering up the suffering

00:11:57.840 of the darkness and then how I was feeling for, for people would come to mind and I would weep for

00:12:03.300 them. Um, a few people in particular, their faces, their names, institutions, good and important

00:12:10.220 institutions in the church, I would offer it up for. And so I had a sense, you know, I knew it was going

00:12:17.420 on all of that in a way, but it was totally new territory for me to go into pitch black. Like if

00:12:26.020 you've ever camped out in places really far from the city, you, you, when there's no moon, there's

00:12:33.440 no, uh, moon out, you, even if you flash a good flashlight, you can only see it. It's sort of the,

00:12:40.420 the darkness envelops the light at some point in a near distant, you know, um, it was like that.

00:12:47.060 There was, the darkness was impenetrable and it was just a horrible kind of suffering.

00:12:54.560 Wow. Wow. Now, one of the incredible things that you've said about this, and it's, it's been

00:13:01.480 said by Cardinal Burke, by Bishop Schneider, by a few others, but very few. Um, and that's to

00:13:09.440 recognize in this, the hand of God, to recognize in this, uh, pandemic, uh, that's affecting the whole

00:13:16.000 wide world, uh, a type of chastisement. If you could speak a little bit about that.

00:13:20.480 Yeah. So, um, uh, uh, maybe before I do, I want to just give one other piece of that experience.

00:13:28.420 I was intubated very shortly after going into the ICU, which means I had a, uh, ventilator. I went on

00:13:37.500 a ventilator, eight out of 10 people die, uh, who are on COVID to go on a ventilator. And I'm fairly

00:13:44.900 certain the numbers are higher for those who go in with the lung condition, underlying conditions

00:13:50.980 that I had. As I went in, my wife heard, uh, an interior locution three days, three days.

00:14:01.280 And of course the reference and even how I've described the experience. So at the end of three

00:14:08.860 days, I ripped out the intubation tube when I was unconscious, which is hard to do because I was

00:14:15.220 in constraints. And then, and so I ripped it out. It caused a huge commotion, of course, in the ICU.

00:14:22.400 The nurse called my wife, uh, and said, and that was the end of the third day and said, um, uh,

00:14:30.000 I need to tell you that your husband tore out his intubation tube. And she said, but he's breathing

00:14:35.680 on his own, you know? So when I came out of that, I came out, uh, with a very strong sense

00:14:45.160 to answer your question, John Henry, that this is a warning that, uh, and you know, you're,

00:14:54.780 you're in the news. I used to be in the news. So the sins of the church are often

00:14:59.840 unfortunately things that people in the news have to report on. So we know the sins of

00:15:05.240 idolatry. We know the sins of the hierarchy with McCarrick. We know the sins of abuse and

00:15:11.000 all of that. But what struck me was a call to repentance of the laity for, for sacrilege,

00:15:20.900 um, for, uh, in the Holy sacrifice of the mass and for irreverence. And I mean irreverence in a,

00:15:28.460 in a, at the level of, of mortal sin or at the level of very, uh, serious sin and that the laity

00:15:37.060 needed to repent. They need to repent for usurping the role of the priest and gestures in the mass,

00:15:44.100 repent for not being prepared, repent for going forward and receiving the Eucharist in a state of

00:15:52.300 mortal sin, which in its objective, uh, great gravity is not different than a Satanist.

00:15:59.940 It's different in intent, but objective moral gravity. It's not, it's, it's the same as a

00:16:07.140 Satanist coming, prying open the tabernacle and desecrating our Lord. And I, I came out with a strong

00:16:14.980 sense that we have to repent. And, and I, many, my wife has said, you're different than when you went

00:16:21.840 into the ICU. Many have said, you know, the, the, the prioress that I just spoke with, she said,

00:16:27.860 your voice is stronger. And I've never been a wimp, you know, I've never been a passive or,

00:16:34.000 or unclear about my faith ever. Um, because Jesus saved me out of darkness and a darkness in my youth,

00:16:42.500 like, like, you know, that, you know, I would put a bullet in my head if I hadn't found Jesus.

00:16:49.240 So my faith has always been strong, but I, I've come out of this with a, uh, a resol, a resoluteness,

00:16:58.800 if you will, a firm conviction of my need to cry out to the laity, to repent and to stop desecrating

00:17:06.900 Christ, stop receiving him in an, in a manner that is destructive, uh, that allows for the stealing of

00:17:14.380 the host, that allows for dropping of particles and the trampling of the Lord under our feet.

00:17:19.320 And of course, you know, many know me, uh, see me as a traditionalist and, and that's not wrong.

00:17:25.340 Um, um, but circumstantially I attend a beautiful high Nova Sordo parish. Um, and that's where the

00:17:36.480 problems are. The, the Latin mass community has its own problems. There's humans, right? So wherever

00:17:42.340 you have humans, you have sin and problems and trend issues. There are no issues of reverence in the Latin

00:17:47.820 mass community. There might be internally, but certainly not externally as a norm. In the ordinary

00:17:53.640 form of the mass, uh, every single day, the Lord is desecrated every single day, grave irreverence

00:18:02.400 every single day. We commit the most grave sins, John Henry, which I, you know, you don't have to be

00:18:09.820 Thomas Aquinas to figure out our sins against God himself in the realm of worship. And that's the

00:18:16.860 conviction I came out with. Wow. Let's unpack this a little bit. Cause there's so much in there.

00:18:22.680 First of all, uh, let's talk about unworthy reception of Holy Communion because Bishop

00:18:27.780 Snyder said something a few years ago, which I, I just happened to recently rewatch a video,

00:18:34.060 uh, of his. It was an interview that he had with Church Militant and he was describing,

00:18:38.280 uh, uh, chastisements actually. Um, and he was mentioning the same thing you are in terms of

00:18:44.640 unworthy reception of Holy Communion. And he quoted from 1 Corinthians 11, where St. Paul gives a warning

00:18:50.860 of a type of chastisement that comes from unworthy reception of Holy Communion. And he says,

00:18:55.860 and this is why many are weak and sick among you and some have died, which to me was very, uh, a very

00:19:04.780 good description of what we're experiencing right now with the pandemic. So there's a lot of that going

00:19:10.760 on, obviously. What would you say is, is actually, um, our status right now in terms of unworthy

00:19:19.480 reception of Holy Communion in the Catholic Church today? Well, so to back up just a tad, that's 1

00:19:24.780 Corinthians 11, 27. And, um, that passage is one of the reasons I became Catholic and, and really, uh,

00:19:34.620 become to believe in the, that the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ is truly and fully present

00:19:41.180 in, uh, in the host and in the, and in the wine as it's consecrated. And, um, and, uh, demonic,

00:19:50.460 I think it's a demonic reality that that passage never appears in the ordinary form lectionary ever

00:19:58.580 in the, all three years, never appears. Um, and so I, what does it look like? It looks like

00:20:07.400 people receiving in the hand, um, and not checking to see whether there are particles because when you

00:20:14.520 receive in the hand, it causes, uh, uh, transact, you know, if I could speak like an engineer for a

00:20:22.460 moment, transactional activity that is, that, that is minimum of two, twice as much or three times as

00:20:32.060 much as receiving on the tongue because you grab it with your fingers, um, or you, or you, which is

00:20:38.700 the worst kind, or it's placed in your hand and then you grab it with your fingers and that causes

00:20:44.220 particles to break loose. And at one time in my own parish, I watched, and on Sunday we have a, it's a,

00:20:50.760 it's a cathedral. So there are a lot of people, let's just say a thousand, a hundred percent of

00:20:57.120 those who received on the hand, John Henry, a hundred percent. And let me just say, this is an

00:21:02.480 Orthodox parish, you know, with an Orthodox, a very good and holy priest. Um, he's a great liturgist.

00:21:10.060 He's a, he's a canon lawyer. He's the chancellor of the diocese, Father Brian Jerebic. I watched,

00:21:15.600 and I always sit in the front pew anyway, or somewhere real close to the front. And just out of curiosity,

00:21:20.540 a hundred percent John Henry that received on the hand did not examine whether or not there were

00:21:29.160 particles to be consumed before they brushed their hands down on their side or whatever.

00:21:35.780 And that, that's, that causes desecration because as the council of Trent clearly says,

00:21:44.020 tradition is clearly taught that the, that if you break the host down into small pieces,

00:21:50.780 the body and blood, soul and divinity of Christ is still present in those pieces.

00:21:57.020 Yeah. And if those drop to the floor and they're trampled underfoot, this is a grave sin. This is

00:22:02.800 desecration. And so maybe there's not as full culpability on an individual because they have

00:22:09.020 no intent of doing this, but certainly it's not going to go well in the judgment if they make it,

00:22:14.580 you know, uh, and, and God willingly would, but that's one of many things, of course, receiving

00:22:20.340 communion, uh, in a state of mortal sin. You know, I've even had Cardinal Orenzi say to me in my

00:22:26.000 presence at my own conference. Okay. Avila Institute has a conference every few years. We had Cardinal Orenzi

00:22:31.900 last year and he said, communion on the hand, the decision to allow it quote, you can quote me on

00:22:40.320 this has been a disaster has been, this is a Prince of the church who knows the state of the church in

00:22:48.620 the world. And he said, it's been a disaster. And I'll tell you, I'll give you another example.

00:22:53.040 I, I, uh, before the virus, I traveled every single week of the year. I I've spoken in just

00:23:01.360 about every state in the United States. And sometimes you can find a good Latin mass. And

00:23:06.880 sometimes you can't, sometimes you run into some very beautiful, ordinary foreign masses that are

00:23:11.780 done according to a hermeneutic of continuity and, and of obedience to the church. But 90% of my

00:23:19.520 experience is in, is, is, is going to mass is experiencing liturgical abuse. 90% of my

00:23:27.940 experience. And I'm not a, you know, John Henry, you don't know me very well, but I'm not a,

00:23:33.140 I don't spend a lot of time criticizing priests. I don't spend a lot of time criticizing bishops

00:23:37.120 because what I want to focus on my calling is what can I do as a layman and how can I help lay

00:23:41.740 people? Right. That's my domain. But 90% of the time priests are unfaithful to their vows in the way

00:23:51.860 that they, um, uh, provide the Holy sacrifice of the mass because they're making stuff up and,

00:23:58.500 you know, and of course, uh, the, the, um, the congregation follows and, and, you know,

00:24:05.760 that sets the stages. I don't want to complain. There's a, there are thousands and thousands of

00:24:11.000 wonderful priests and there are good bishops like Bishop Strickland, Bishop Athanasius Schneider,

00:24:16.500 Archbishop Sample, you know, so, uh, and we need to support those good bishops and priests. And I

00:24:21.760 don't want to spend any time criticizing the other side, but I do want to say, I came out of this with

00:24:27.380 the conviction that the laity need to repent. The laity need to figure out because when they stand

00:24:33.720 before God, they're not going to be able to say, well, I didn't know, or my priest didn't teach me

00:24:38.400 or, you know, I'm sorry that I did that, you know, over and over and over again. The general

00:24:44.620 instruction of the Roman missile is clear. The teachings of the council of Trent, you know,

00:24:49.820 exceedingly clear. The tradition of the church, clear, accessible. You and I as lay people in this

00:24:56.420 age have access to everything any scholar does, everything any priest does, everything any bishop

00:25:02.060 does, regarding how it is that we should comport ourselves before the Lord in worship, how it is

00:25:08.740 that we ought to participate in worship. And you know what? We basically said, to hell with that, I'm

00:25:14.980 doing it my own way. Right? And what is that? That's a fundamental rejection of the will of God. It's a

00:25:22.740 fundamental dishonoring of God and how he's revealed how it is that he desires to be worshipped. If you

00:25:28.780 remember in the Old Testament, there were two priests, Israelite priests, whom God killed because they

00:25:37.980 offered what the Old Testament calls strange fire. What were they doing? They were violating their vows of

00:25:44.300 obedience to God, and they were offering sacrifice in a way that was contrary to what he said. Then, as you

00:25:50.760 noted, 1 Corinthians 11, 1127, there's other instances of, you know, I think it was Ananias, or who was it,

00:25:59.520 who lied to the Holy Spirit. They, you know, they dropped dead in front of Peter. You know, so we worship a

00:26:06.220 very loving and merciful God, but who deserves a response that is humble and low. And thank you for my

00:26:17.680 salvation. Thank you for all you've done for me. We've just gone through Lent. Many of us watch the

00:26:22.060 Passion of the Christ. If that doesn't get in as to what Jesus has done for us, you know, then we're

00:26:28.040 not going to come to this place of, I owe you everything. You tell me how I should worship. This

00:26:32.620 isn't about my preference. And then we should come in, and we should study with reverence and act in

00:26:38.840 reverence and honor the Lord in the holy sacrifice of the Mass. Absolutely. Now, there is something that you

00:26:45.680 said that I think is going to be quite shocking to many people. There are very many good Catholics who

00:26:51.860 love the Lord with all their hearts and souls, and yet they've been taught from, you know, their

00:26:56.880 upbringing to receive Holy Communion on the hand. They actually don't understand the physical reality

00:27:03.880 that you were talking about. The fact that when the host is placed in the hand, it can leave

00:27:11.120 particles. When the host is broken by the priest, there's all sorts of particles there. Those of us

00:27:16.560 who served at the Masses know that. But it's a reality, I think, that most people don't ever think

00:27:23.540 about because they think, oh, it looks like a cracker. It's sort of like a cracker, and therefore

00:27:28.900 it's not, you know, what's left in your hand. But actually, that understanding that you give of the

00:27:33.780 teaching of the Church, that each of the particles contains the body, blood, soul, and divinity of our

00:27:39.540 Lord, gets across that message that, as Bishop Schneider said, most people unwillingly but trample

00:27:46.040 on our Lord, literally, as they leave particles of our Lord strewn about the Church, especially near

00:27:54.600 the front. Yeah, so that Sunday that I watched everyone go forward, and then no one, actually

00:28:01.460 absolutely no one checked their hand, I also asked Father Jerobik, I said, on a Sunday when you have a full

00:28:07.560 church, how often does a patent come back? Because we use patents underneath everyone to catch any

00:28:13.480 particle. I said, how often does the patent come back with particles on it? And he said, every time.

00:28:21.220 So, every time, folks, there are particles that fall in a mass where you have in the neighborhood

00:28:28.120 of 500 people, or whatever the number is, a significant number of people, every time. Can I just say it to

00:28:33.520 you again? Every time. So, what about those who don't check? And as, you know, again, to be a voice

00:28:41.400 of mercy, because God is a God of mercy, if you've done this, and you didn't know, just, what do you

00:28:49.180 need to do? Repent, and just say, and go to confession, and say, you know, I, Father, bless me,

00:28:55.060 Father, for I've sinned. I have not honored the Lord in the way that I've approached Him,

00:29:00.880 in Holy Communion, the way that I should. I've been careless, and I didn't know. And, you know,

00:29:08.620 what you're going to hear is, God be praised, I absolve you, you know? But do that. Do that today.

00:29:16.300 Don't ever do it again. Don't be afraid to kneel. You know, in our community, the community called

00:29:22.120 Apostoli VA, we have several thousand participants from around the world. One of our members who lives

00:29:28.600 in Japan told me that when I first began to teach on this, he sort of bristled. And then the next

00:29:35.700 time he went to Mass, he received Holy Communion on the hand. And, of course, then he took it out of

00:29:41.260 his hand and put it in his mouth. And there was a very clear peace remaining. And he was shocked.

00:29:47.660 And it was like the Lord said to him, you know, he reported to me, it was like the Lord saying to me,

00:29:51.480 it's true. It's true. Let's not do this anymore. Another member of the community who's very meek,

00:29:58.520 really beautiful, holy woman, but meek. When she became convicted, she began to receive on her knees

00:30:05.700 and on the tongue. And she went to a parish where that was frowned upon, but it's where she had to go.

00:30:12.680 And she was told to stand up. And she said, I will receive the Lord on my knees. I will receive my Lord

00:30:21.160 and my God on my knees. And I think we need to begin to do that. We need to stop the fear,

00:30:27.600 stop worrying about who's looking at us, stop worrying about rejection, and worry most about

00:30:33.720 the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords, the one who sacrificed his only son on our behalf,

00:30:38.600 to reconcile us to the Father, and to come humbly as we possibly can. Listen, if there's two options,

00:30:46.400 and, you know, the church allows for an option now, there's two options. And one is humbler

00:30:53.120 than the other. And you are truly converted, you will choose the humbler option. And if you won't,

00:30:59.940 you need to be converted, you need to repent, you need to orient your heart and mind more deeply to what

00:31:04.920 he's done for you, and who he is and who you are, and then humble yourself before the Lord.

00:31:11.720 Beautiful. Now, there is an aspect of this, this worldwide pandemic that we're going through right

00:31:18.600 now that is truly remarkable that the masses for the most part stopped for everyone, in a way that

00:31:25.300 was unconceivable, even just a little while ago. The chastisements that we were warned about

00:31:32.760 throughout really all of history, but most specifically at Fatima in 1917.

00:31:39.140 Do you see any connection there to the warnings that Our Lady of Fatima gave us in 1917?

00:31:45.760 So I believe in those warnings, but I'm no expert. I've never focused on private revelation.

00:31:54.620 I do pray the rosary every day, and I have since I became Catholic. So I'm and I have a strong Marian

00:32:02.680 devotion. So but all I can say is, it sure feels that way. I'm not saying what I'm about to say is from

00:32:11.440 God. But this is what came to mind in that darkness. The Eucharist is the air we breathe.

00:32:18.600 And our lungs are being taken from us. Our breath is being taken from us. And I do believe,

00:32:27.400 John Henry, that it's a warning. And that if we don't repent and heed that warning, that it's going

00:32:33.520 to get worse, that there'll be another wave. But I'm not saying I'm a prophet. I'm not saying God

00:32:40.500 said that to me. It's just a very, very strong conviction that I have. So yes, I believe there's a

00:32:47.700 connection. I couldn't quite explain it to you. As you know, as a Marian scholar might be able to,

00:32:54.600 but I do believe there is a connection to that reality. The world, the John Henry, the reason is

00:33:02.200 too, is that no one is untouched by this situation, whether it be economically, whether it be people we

00:33:09.500 love or care about, whether it be getting the virus ourselves. No one is untouched in the world

00:33:15.280 by this. How many times can you count an event in your life, in your young life, or in the lives of

00:33:23.880 your parents where that was true? You're going to have a hard time finding many to count. Even world

00:33:31.100 wars that affected the world as a whole, there's still pockets that are untouched. I mean, I just don't

00:33:38.620 see that in this case. Yeah, yeah. And this is a particular chastisement, especially of the

00:33:47.860 faithful. It's the faithful who are, if you will, hurt, or at least sensibly hurt. Because those of us

00:33:58.200 who go to daily mass or did go to daily mass, the deprivation was, is, yeah, I'd say it's a very

00:34:09.000 painful thing. And I hope the pain doesn't recede, because I don't want to go to a place where you get

00:34:15.780 used to being without our Lord, used to not being at present for the holy sacrifice.

00:34:22.660 So it's a particular pain and offering up for those who are faithful, who were called to come

00:34:31.520 to daily mass, who were given to the love of the Lord in that particular way.

00:34:36.720 Yeah. And I think the other thing that's going to follow this, my, I have a prediction that's dire,

00:34:42.860 and that is there are enemies of reverence in, inside the church at every rank, laity, but I'm

00:34:51.780 focused on the laity. And I do believe that that's demonically rooted. I believe that the highest order

00:34:59.280 of demons are concerned with the disruption of worship, proper worship of God. Somebody has noted

00:35:07.100 the seraphim that had fallen as a possibility. I've been wanting to talk with Father Ripperger about it

00:35:13.820 to see. So, you know, I defer to, you know, an expert like him. But there are enemies of reverence,

00:35:20.700 and what they are going to do after this pandemic is begin to insist on communion on the hand. But I

00:35:28.580 need to just say this. You've probably heard me say it before. That is absolute insanity. I've had so

00:35:34.980 many priests contact me that I didn't know, who are reaching out to me. One seminary formator,

00:35:41.180 another priest saying, what happened to you? What did you hear? What, you know, what did you go

00:35:45.400 through? And they say, they've said to me, it's way less likely to have human contact and to be safer

00:35:54.160 to distribute communion on the tongue while people are kneeling than in any other way. But we have a,

00:36:03.060 they're enemies of reverence in the church. And again, I'm focused on laity. I don't,

00:36:08.820 I really don't want to be quoted as, as, as, as, you know, railing against anyone else,

00:36:14.980 because that's the, those are mostly who I talk to. And we, we are going to be told that that's not,

00:36:27.160 kneeling on the tongue is not sanitary when the exact opposite is true. And what I always say to

00:36:31.620 people is, I didn't open my car door with my tongue on the way to mass. I didn't flush the toilet.

00:36:38.820 Before I left my, I mean, I'm sorry to be crass, but it's true with my tongue on the way to mass.

00:36:45.480 I didn't handle this, that, and the other in the grocery store, but to whatever I picked up on the

00:36:52.280 way to mass with my tongue. It's insanity. And, and not only that, I'll say this.

00:36:59.060 Uh, my own priest has told me, I mean, if you cup your hands, the way people normally receive on the

00:37:05.620 hand, you, the way your fingers naturally goes, they, they bend and it creates sort of a cup

00:37:10.360 unless you're really force yourself, right? So it's natural. Look at the surface area of your hands

00:37:16.640 cupped. And I've had several priests tell me it is way more difficult to avoid contact with your hands

00:37:25.720 like this than it is to give someone communion who's stationary because they're on their knees.

00:37:30.340 They can't move as much, who essentially have a hole there to put the, the blessed sacrament in

00:37:35.760 or the tongue, uh, which is a very, a much more smaller, much smaller surface area.

00:37:41.880 And, uh, I'm telling you that you faithful out there are going to be faced with more aggression

00:37:50.480 against it. You need to be ready and you need to be resolute that you're going to kneel and receive

00:37:57.240 properly anyway. And if you, and if you can't in the church you're in, find another one. Um, if,

00:38:04.160 you know, uh, Taylor Marshall has said, you know, people should go to the Latin mass. And then on his

00:38:09.080 show, I said, well, I said, I, you know, if I had young kids, I'd be going there because the culture

00:38:14.480 of reverence, you know, that would be my default. Um, right now I'm supporting a good priest and I,

00:38:21.120 and I'm very committed to that. And we should do that. If all faithful Catholics leave the ordinary

00:38:26.320 form, what's left, you know, you're leaving good priests hanging out to dry who are really trying

00:38:31.160 to do the right thing. You're leaving laity who need to hear your voice, all of that. So you have

00:38:36.780 to discern the will of God here. But, but if, but if I, if I was in a place where I, if I was in a

00:38:42.780 diocese, that I could not reverently receive the Lord, I would leave the diocese.

00:38:50.920 What do we do when you're confronted with that situation? Let's say the, the, the stakes are

00:38:58.040 raised, as you said, and a priest just refuses. Would you advise that they kind of, um, reverently

00:39:04.960 receive on the hand and, and try and wash the particles or that they just make a spiritual holy

00:39:09.540 communion, uh, at that time and, and, uh, and, uh, try and go, obviously go to our Lord, uh, the next

00:39:16.100 time, you know, in a place where they can. I would stay kneeling and see what happens. Number one.

00:39:21.820 And if they just pass you by and let people come around you, then that they're obviously not going

00:39:27.120 to give you the Lord. You have to take a spiritual communion, stand up. I wouldn't receive in the hand.

00:39:31.920 I wouldn't acquiesce. You know, there, there's a, I heard a good priest even one time say, now he was

00:39:37.780 teaching, uh, proper, uh, participation in the mass. He's very orthodox in the ordinary form. And he

00:39:44.540 said, but he said, so what if I find myself in a parish and handholding is the norm? Handholding is

00:39:50.880 an abuse against the, uh, the clear teaching of the general instruction of the Roman missile,

00:39:55.720 which says you can't change the mass. It's a corporate action. The, the general instruction governs

00:40:01.140 the actions of the priest and of the lady. And you can't do that without violating that

00:40:06.120 clear admonition. He says, what do you do if you find yourself in place? Well, for the sake of unity,

00:40:11.760 you need to hold the hand of another person. I, I, so everything else this priest said,

00:40:16.140 I agreed with, and I thought that is an absolute bunch of baloney. It's false unity. You're saying

00:40:22.680 for the sake of unity and violating church teaching, I'm going to be, I'm going to unify with others in

00:40:30.860 violating church teaching, or I'm going to unify with others in, in, in foregoing humility before

00:40:37.860 the Lord. No way. Absolutely not. So I, I kind of lost track of your question, but I think I answered

00:40:45.520 it. Um, you know, one of the, one of the, uh, very interesting things that you talked with Taylor

00:40:52.840 about was about, um, an exorcism that you experienced and the, the demons who were forced

00:41:00.220 to speak on the power of Christ as, as has happened in the scriptures before, et cetera. But they were

00:41:04.720 talking about this kind of, uh, um, demonic wish or, or to, to abuse what happens in the mass. I think

00:41:13.340 many people don't know about these rules, about, uh, you know, the, the, the, um, different irreverent

00:41:21.540 things that are just done, but, uh, I'd like handholding for the, our father or whatever, or, or the,

00:41:27.840 the ring around the altar for the, our father invite the little children up and so on that,

00:41:31.900 that look all cute, but they're actually abuses. Um, and you, you mentioned that there are sometimes

00:41:38.500 that's connected to, uh, the, the demonic activity. Well, so just to be clear, I have been involved in

00:41:46.000 a number of exorcism. I've also involved with more than one possessed person, and I have permission

00:41:52.060 to say what I'm going to say because I've been criticized in the past, um, for, for being open

00:41:59.980 about my experiences. And so Taylor Marshall was relaying how, when he was in a, uh, an, uh, an ordinary

00:42:08.120 foreign parish, his little girl, I think it was maybe three or four at the time, saw girl altar servers.

00:42:15.760 And she said to Taylor Marshall, daddy, I want to be a girl priest. And I just went, Oh gosh,

00:42:23.860 you can't undo that. And what I said to Taylor was, I said, I've been in a, uh, uh, situation where

00:42:31.540 I heard a demon say, children are easy. Children are easy, which is a, was a horrifying moment. It's a

00:42:39.740 horrifying thing to repeat. It's a horrifying thing to experience. But the point is, is that there's

00:42:45.740 always demonic activity around the most important things that we do as Catholics. The enemy is

00:42:51.420 always trying to hinder us from growth. And, you know, the minute you decide to go practice daily

00:42:56.220 mental prayer, I guarantee you, you're going to have all hell coming against you. You still do it

00:43:01.480 and you'll overcome, especially if you pray the exilium Christianorum prayers and you understand,

00:43:06.640 I just wrote a book, by the way, spiritual warfare and discernment of spirits to help with that sort

00:43:11.020 of thing. But, um, you know, the, the, so the enemy is going to come against you. And as I noted,

00:43:17.560 I do believe there are strong, where, where the most important things are hierarchically, you can,

00:43:23.820 you can just know that there's going to be more demonic activity. And, uh, why is there so much abuse?

00:43:30.660 I think it's in part because, uh, the, the, that's what the enemy wants is to constantly abuse

00:43:36.760 and to motivate God's people, even good people to abuse, uh, their relationship with God and to commit

00:43:43.900 abuses. You know, another abuse lay people commit all the time is the usurpation of priestly function,

00:43:51.300 uh, in the mass by, uh, uh, um, uh, what do you call it? Imitating the Oron's position. Friends,

00:43:58.480 that's only for the priest. You don't get to do that. You get to do certain things that, that God

00:44:03.840 has determined in that right, um, by the magisterium, but you don't get to imitate the priest. You don't

00:44:10.320 get to say the prayers of the priest. Those are abuses and they're sinful for you to commit.

00:44:15.080 And those are just some examples to answer your question.

00:44:19.640 Now, this is very interesting because I think there are a lot of people who, again,

00:44:23.900 don't realize any of this. They were asked by their priests to, to, to bring their girls up to

00:44:28.580 serve, et cetera, et cetera. Um, what would you say to those moms and dads who've had their,

00:44:35.060 their little girls serving, never meaning to offend our Lord? Um, what, what would your advice be to

00:44:41.540 them? Yeah. And I don't know in that case, if I'd call it an offense, I would call it though a

00:44:46.920 problem as demonstrated by the effect on Taylor's little girl. And I would just say simply, you know,

00:44:54.440 God bless you for your faithfulness to the church. Uh, you need to turn away from these practices.

00:44:59.700 You need to learn, you need to understand that, that most priests have served as altar boys.

00:45:07.200 Sociologically, um, when girls enter into that space, boys are pushed out. You can ask any good

00:45:16.640 priest, anyone, uh, who's faithful to the magisterium and takes it very seriously. Have you seen boys get

00:45:24.160 pushed out as girls come in? Yes, because girls are more mature. They're more vocal. They're more sort

00:45:30.300 of in control of themselves early, if you will, than boys. And it's no, it's, it's a normal sociological

00:45:36.820 reality that occurs. And so that means there are fewer priests or fewer young men who are properly

00:45:44.440 discerning their call to the priesthood because of this phenomenon. For that very reason, we should

00:45:50.220 not do it. And it's not saying girls are not more worthy to be in the presence of God than boys.

00:45:56.280 There's just different roles and different reasons why these things occur. We're not oppressing girls

00:46:01.740 by saying, you know, we're not oppressing men by saying you can't bear children. We're not oppressing

00:46:08.320 men by saying, you know, women are generally more open spiritually to God than men. It's not, it's not

00:46:15.060 a disrespect of men to say that. Similarly, we're not oppressing girls to say, you know, it's important

00:46:21.120 that young men get to, uh, explore the possibility of the priesthood by being involved and serving at the

00:46:27.800 altar. And, and that's more important than you being able to do that thing, which you would like

00:46:33.200 to do. Absolutely. One of the things that I wanted to get to with you before we, before we end here is

00:46:40.140 that the necessity of a priest. Now, this was very interesting. You were in hospital, you were a

00:46:48.140 coronavirus patient, and of all people, you had it severe where you actually feared for your life.

00:46:53.080 And yet, uh, you mentioned that there were nurses coming in. There were also janitors coming in to

00:47:00.240 clean your room, empty your trash. And yet priests were absolutely forbidden from coming to you to

00:47:08.780 minister to your soul, to empty the trash in your soul. As the wife of Matt Fradd said, who was also in

00:47:14.220 hospital and experienced that, and also said the same thing, that janitors came in, surely a priest had

00:47:20.040 come in to help me get rid of the garbage in my soul. Yeah. I mean, it's a perfect example of the

00:47:25.580 insanity, right? And, and so, so who should go in, uh, in Chicago, God be praised. There was this group

00:47:32.940 of young men who had, uh, young priests who had no underlying conditions that put them at greater risk

00:47:40.420 to forgetting the virus or dying from the virus, who said, I'm willing and ready to go. I would say,

00:47:46.600 please, please, please to bishops. I would plead to bishops, let them go. And I would plead to civil

00:47:52.600 authorities. I think it is absolutely outrageous that civil authorities would impede the most important

00:48:00.780 care that a patient needs. The most important care that a patient needs isn't to save their life. The

00:48:07.760 most important care that a patient needs is to save their soul. And so if a priest is young,

00:48:13.900 strong, strong, willing, and able, every bishop should allow them, every civil authority should

00:48:21.120 allow them. And I think it's a travesty that they're not allowed. And, and I would say, I think

00:48:26.560 for the most part, uh, it's a civil authority issue and it's a hospital policy issue and it's,

00:48:33.180 it's absurd and ridiculous and it's contrary to religious liberty. Um, and it's contrary to reason

00:48:39.960 if a janitor can go in safely by God, a priest can go in safely. And, and that, that's, uh, uh,

00:48:48.120 you know, but that's also a sign, John Henry, at least in the United States of the erosion of

00:48:55.560 liberty. The arose, rose, you know, we've had to have bar, I, you know, I'm not a political guy, but, um,

00:49:03.320 we've, we've had to have, uh, bar threaten and say, stop impeding the religious liberty of, of, of, uh,

00:49:11.460 of Christians. And I'm, I'm sure I don't think he's single out Christians. I don't, I don't know the quote.

00:49:17.120 He probably just in general. Um, uh, and I, I was very encouraged to see that it's our religious

00:49:25.980 liberties, uh, are eroding in the United States quite dramatically before this administration.

00:49:31.880 Of course, we saw the requirement of nuns to pay for fund abortions through, uh, sinful constructs

00:49:39.800 of healthcare and all of that. But, um, thankfully that's been rolling back a bit under this

00:49:44.880 administration. And I'm no, you know, I am not a Republican Catholic. I'm a Catholic who votes for

00:49:51.700 life. I'm a Catholic who votes on the basis of the most important issues of our time. And of course,

00:49:58.080 in the civil, uh, realm, and this is not a political statement, this is a moral statement.

00:50:04.120 Abortion is, is, uh, of, among the most grave sins. I think it's, it follows closely by what we've

00:50:11.600 been talking about and that is sacrilege, um, and desecration, uh, of the whole of, of sacred

00:50:18.140 things. And in particular, the body and blood of our Lord, but next, uh, clear, uh, next level of sin

00:50:24.760 is abortion and, uh, the selling of fetal, of telling of parts and all of this incredible sickness

00:50:30.780 that we also need to repent of. Absolutely. Absolutely. Uh, Dan Burke, thank you so very

00:50:38.860 much for being with us on the show. Uh, do you have any final parting words, uh, for, uh, for our

00:50:44.040 viewers? And if you can tell them, please, where they can access your materials and your, uh, and

00:50:48.600 your spiritual formation. Thank you. Yeah. Please repent. If you've been a part of these practices,

00:50:53.180 don't hear me condemning you. I'm not, I don't go, I don't go to these masses with abuse. I don't even

00:50:59.560 look at the, I don't look at the priest, priest with criticism. I don't look at lay people who,

00:51:04.100 who don't know any better with criticism. I'm there to worship the Lord. Please don't hear me

00:51:08.240 judging you, but if it applies and if it's piercing your heart, please repent and go to confession.

00:51:14.640 Please begin to learn and take more seriously what it means to approach, uh, our blessed Lord and the

00:51:20.360 Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Please do that. Uh, in terms of resources, there are a couple,

00:51:25.820 um, we have more students than ever right now at the Avala Institute for Spiritual Formation.

00:51:30.760 We have graduate studies and then also, uh, personal enrichment studies for those who don't

00:51:35.500 want to write so many papers and read so many books, but who want to get holy. We have spiritual

00:51:40.020 direction.com that has thousands of articles on the interior life. And then finally, our community,

00:51:45.780 I've really opened up much more than I ever have because of the isolation. So I'm

00:51:50.220 doing a Sunday night series on, uh, the, uh, what's called a paradigm of ascent. And that's

00:51:55.600 how saints become saints. If you go out to apostoliva.org, A-P-O-S-T-O-L-I-V-I-A-E.org

00:52:03.100 and create a profile, it's all free. And we're trying to, we provide groups, prayer groups that

00:52:08.040 are meeting. We're doing constant formation, uh, for nothing to help God's people come together

00:52:14.280 with other people of faith who really take their faith seriously and need to be strengthened

00:52:18.640 in this time when we're so isolated. So John Henry, thanks for allowing me to say that.

00:52:23.800 Thank you for the good work you do in defending life and, uh, trying to get the truth out there

00:52:29.960 and for our time together today.

00:52:32.580 Amen. Thank you, Dan. Thank the Lord for bringing you back from the edge so that you might proclaim

00:52:36.620 his truth to many, many people. God bless you. And we'll see you next time, everyone. Take care.

00:52:41.360 Hello, this is John Henry Weston. I'd like to invite you to subscribe to the John Henry Weston

00:52:47.880 Show YouTube channel if you haven't already done so. There you will find all the past episodes

00:52:53.180 and much more. Thanks again for watching and may God bless you.

00:52:57.220 Thank you.

The John-Henry Westen Show - April 17, 2020

Dark night of the soul： Faithful Catholic escapes death from coronavirus

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