The John-Henry Westen Show - Episode 12： Vatican’s former doctrine chief： Contraception is ‘intrinsically bad,’ Church can never allow it

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome to this episode of the John Henry Weston Show. I'm your host John Henry Weston

00:00:09.880 and today we're going to be joined by Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller who is or was until 2017

00:00:17.260 the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, the congregation in Rome that deals with

00:00:23.220 protecting the doctrine of the faith. He was appointed to that position in 2012 by Pope

00:00:27.780 Benedict XVI and was removed after his five-year stint by Pope Francis with no other explanation.

00:00:35.780 Normally when cardinals are removed from their positions they're either given another post or

00:00:40.120 something else to do. Cardinal Müller in the tradition that Pope Francis started with Cardinal

00:00:46.040 Burke removing him from office with nothing else to do was also so removed with no real explanation

00:00:52.140 whatsoever. And so we're going to be speaking with Cardinal Müller about Pope Francis. He's been

00:00:58.060 regarded by the mainstream media as the number one enemy if you will of the Pope and as he will tell

00:01:04.320 us that is nonsense. And so we normally start with an opening prayer but we'll as we did last week

00:01:10.520 with Cardinal Icke will allow his eminence to lead us in that opening prayer. Stay tuned and may God

00:01:16.800 bless you. Hello and welcome to the John Henry Weston Show. I'm your host John Henry Weston and

00:01:22.140 to come to you today from the apartment of Cardinal Gerhard Müller whom you all know as the former

00:01:28.460 prefect for the congregation of the doctrine of faith. Welcome Cardinal Müller. Thank you very much.

00:01:34.220 Welcome to you. It is great to be with you to be able to ask you some questions. You've been involved in

00:01:41.820 the heart of the church for many many years and now in these very difficult times you've taken on a

00:01:49.160 special role even though you're not the prefect any longer of the congregation. Your voice is still

00:01:54.520 very present in the church. You just released your manifesto and what do you sense is God's calling for

00:02:04.780 you right now? A bishop is sent to the church to give testimony of the gospel, of the doctrine of the faith.

00:02:14.780 The doctrine of the faith is not a theory about our faith but is a form in which the revelation is present

00:02:24.060 in the world and therefore I have to continue in all this what is doing. A bishop as an apostle, successor of the apostles

00:02:38.380 and I have been in this role as a prefect for the congregation of the faith and I will continue

00:02:45.820 to be the conscience of the right and orthodox faith of the Catholic Church. Beautiful. That's what we're

00:02:56.380 talking about on today's show and we're going to start as we always do with a short prayer. His Eminence

00:03:01.180 will lead us in the short prayer. Yes, we are living in the Eastern time and we can say

00:03:06.780 very good. So with regard to what's going on in the church right now, for the past five, six years or so,

00:03:27.980 there's been a great struggle and it's come particularly around Pope Francis. There's been many questions.

00:03:35.500 You've been characterized in the mainstream media as an enemy of the Pope and I understand that we know

00:03:42.620 we've done many interviews with you where you say that's absolute nonsense. Who is saying this?

00:03:49.980 The stupid man does know nothing of the Catholic Church and Catholic theology. Nobody can be the enemy of the Pope 1.00

00:03:59.420 because we believe that Jesus Christ himself instituted St. Peter and his successors, the bishops of Rome,

00:04:08.300 to be the principle and the fundament of the unity of the Holy Church in the truth revealed by God. But this

00:04:20.940 doesn't mean that we are only repetitors of what is saying the Pope. We are as bishops also apostles

00:04:35.340 and Jesus founded a communion of all the apostles who are all bishops are equal in their responsibility for

00:04:43.340 the church. The church with this uniqueness that the bishop of Rome is responsible for the unity of all bishops

00:04:51.580 and all churches, the dioceses in the revealed truth. And I think these people who are with these opinions

00:05:03.980 are thinking in political categories, are thinking in political categories, categories of power. But the church

00:05:10.060 has nothing to do with political power. The church is there to give testimony, testify the revealed truth,

00:05:18.940 which is for the souls for becoming a good Christian in the discipleship of Jesus Christ and to come to the

00:05:32.380 complete union with God in love, which we say this is the heaven at the end.

00:05:39.900 You, being one of the cardinals, one of the closest advisors to the Holy Father,

00:05:45.820 have taken on a role where you've sometimes done things to correct what you've seen as problematic.

00:05:52.940 And it very much hearkens in my mind to St. Paul, who engaged with St. Peter, even though everyone

00:06:00.780 knew he was the first pope, he engaged him, as the scriptures say, nonetheless to his face and in public.

00:06:09.180 That role is, some people say that that is completely unacceptable, that you would have done

00:06:15.500 some corrections where you feel it was needed. But other people have seen that in that you're doing

00:06:20.780 this out of love and concern for the Holy Father, love of faith.

00:06:23.340 We have big comments of St. Augustine and St. Thomas of Aquinas about the scene in Antiochia, where

00:06:35.580 St. Paul, as apostle, made a certain correction, not in the doctrine of the faith, but in the behavior,

00:06:44.460 the consequences which we must draw in the truth, that everybody is saved by the baptism and the faith in Jesus Christ.

00:06:58.940 And we need not to become first Christians, shoes in the theological sense, that everybody has a chance

00:07:10.540 to become a Christian in the discipleship of Jesus Christ by the means of faith and baptism.

00:07:17.660 And therefore, that was why St. Paul criticized in a certain sense St. Peter and St. Augustine and

00:07:31.100 St. Thomas makes the Lord the humility of St. Peter to accept this correction. And in no time,

00:07:51.980 we had the doctrine of the papacy, that the Pope is like an infallible, has always arrived, as saying was

00:08:05.340 in the big dictatorships, in the totalitarian systems. But St. Peter is one among his brothers,

00:08:13.340 and said, strengthen your brothers in your faith. And therefore, it is possible to give some good advices,

00:08:26.460 not public corrections, but advices before his outcoming document. He must be good, elaborated,

00:08:35.900 and not by some of not so good advices, not so good in theology, only with some slogans and some not very

00:08:52.860 worked out ideas. And therefore, it is needed the congregation for the doctrine of the faith to give

00:09:01.900 the advices before the publication of a document, of a magistrate. And I never made public critics or private

00:09:17.660 critics against the Pope. I can say in my own conscience, it would not be so easy to find for the Pope

00:09:27.420 Pope, a person who is so loyal and also competent in theology as myself.

00:09:38.540 With regard to the different confusions in the Church right now, there's a number of them that are very

00:09:44.700 prominent. I'm just going to mention a few, and if you could give us a short answer from the heart of the

00:09:51.500 Church, the truth of the faith on these different questions. So one of the things that came up, for

00:09:57.180 instance, was the use of contraception in serious cases where there's perhaps Zika virus, possibility

00:10:03.500 of Zika virus transmission. Father Lombardi interpreted the Pope to mean that contraception and the condom are

00:10:12.620 permissible for married couples where the Zika virus is prevalent so that they might not contract it.

00:10:19.340 Is that true? What's the teaching of the Church on that?

00:10:23.260 Yes, the teaching of the Church is the natural conception and the openness of all matrimonies for

00:10:34.380 children. And that is not possible to interfere in a way which is not morally acceptable. And we have

00:10:44.140 the Enzyklika Humana Vitae of the Holy Pope Paul VI. And we have also the underlining of these doctrines

00:11:00.540 in John Paul II in Splendor Veritatis. And therefore, it's also needed to study these documents and not

00:11:12.540 to come to the knowledge of the doctrine of the Church only by the means of some media who are

00:11:23.020 the enemies of the Church. We are misinterpreting, misunderstanding the Church doctrine. But we have

00:11:33.260 the revealed anthropology and with these consequences for all the moral dimensions of human sexuality.

00:11:44.220 And that is very clear.

00:11:47.020 And that clarity in Inhumana Vitae calling contraception, as did the Holy Father John Paul II in

00:11:53.980 Veritatis Splendor, an intrinsic evil, is that an unchangeable teaching? In other words,

00:11:59.980 could that ever change to allow for contraception?

00:12:02.300 In this way it cannot be allowed because it is intrinsically bad. And in other moments we have

00:12:11.980 also this doctrine. But there are some so-called theologians of morality who deny this reality.

00:12:20.940 And I cannot understand how it is possible for a person to deny the possibility of a thing that is

00:12:31.100 in itself wrong. Slavery is in itself wrong.

00:12:35.580 And all these owners, owners of human beings is a contradiction in itself. God is our only owner,

00:12:48.220 but we are nobody a slave. But they justified in the United States, for example, the southern states,

00:12:56.220 they justified with some reasons. The slavery and the reality at the end is good for the mankind.

00:13:06.460 But it is itself wrong and bad and grave sin to make an other person an instrument of your

00:13:17.180 willings and of your interests. There is no possibility to allow adultery. Adultery in all the

00:13:30.140 cases is bad and a grave sin in order to kill another person. You cannot say for some people is it good,

00:13:38.700 for other people is bad. But at the end we have the summary of the good and the bad. And when the good

00:13:49.660 results are more than the bad results, you can allow what is in itself wrong. With the wrong things

00:13:58.220 we can never achieve good realities. Absolutely. One of the other issues that is very confusing today

00:14:07.660 is the issue of communion for Protestants. You know, from your brother bishops in Germany there was a big

00:14:13.660 push to allow for this and then it seemed like the Holy Father did allow for it. But what is the true

00:14:19.820 teaching of the Church on the matter of communion for Protestants? The Holy Communion is not only a symbol

00:14:27.420 for good friendships and so. We can be friends of many people of other faiths and religions and so.

00:14:36.300 of human basis. We have to have respect for them and we love them as our brothers and sisters in God the

00:14:48.060 Creator. Modern Jesus Christ is another dimension. But if you will receive the Holy Baptism, Jesus said,

00:14:57.420 who believes can be baptized. That is the entrance for the Kingdom of God and the Church as a body of Christ.

00:15:09.420 But if a Christian does deny some doctrines of the Catholic Church and is not in full communion with the

00:15:19.260 the Catholic Church. Why he can receive the Holy Communion, the sacramental communion if you are not an ecclesial communion.

00:15:29.260 And mixed couples, they can pray together as Christians. They can collaborate in the education of their children.

00:15:39.260 But it is not possible because of the distance or the difference in the faith to give the same expression of a different faith, of a different profession of the faith.

00:15:57.260 And if a Protestant wants to receive the Holy Communion, the sacrament, but not in the Church, because the sacrament of the Eucharist is the fullest expression of the ecclesial communion.

00:16:15.260 He can convert if he believes in the real presence and the transubstantiation and the presence of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ in the Holy Mass.

00:16:27.260 What Luther denied, absolutely. He said the sacrifice of the Holy Mass is absolutely against the sacrifice of the one unique sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross.

00:16:41.260 But if you believe the Catholic faith, about all the seven sacraments, about the bishops and the pope as successors of the apostles and then Peter, why, if you believe it, why you don't publicly confess your Catholic faith?

00:17:03.260 But if you deny the basic doctrines of the Catholic Church, why you want to go to the Holy Communion?

00:17:12.260 Absolutely. One of the other really confusing things is this new thing that

00:17:21.440 which comes out actually in Gaudate Exsultate. It seems to be a reversal of

00:17:28.340 the understanding of the importance of abortion in terms of voting to other

00:17:35.720 issues like immigration. In Cardinal Ratzinger's letter, Worthiness to

00:17:39.880 Receive Holy Communion, when the US bishops were talking about similar issues,

00:17:45.340 he wrote very clearly that issues like the death penalty or other issues were

00:17:52.020 very different to abortion and euthanasia. Abortion and euthanasia were

00:17:56.440 non-negotiable issues, yet in the latest exhortation it seems that there's a

00:18:01.720 reversal of that, that you know we're told that grave bioethical issues like

00:18:07.960 abortion are not more important than immigration when it comes to making 0.77

00:18:13.780 political decisions. What's your take on that? What's the take of the church?

00:18:19.020 An embryo is a living human being, is a person created by God. If you kill it, that 0.99

00:18:27.760 isn't makes a penal death for this child. You are a killer. You have murdered a child, a child of God, a creature of God, and this is absolutely bad, this is a grave sin which excludes from the reign of God, 1.00

00:18:54.760 the kingdom of God. The death penalty is another question, another level. Is the state, as a legal authority, is able to, or is allowed, to have these penalties?

00:19:20.760 What form of penalties for criminal acts? And in this case, it's a traditional doctrine that, in some cases, it is allowed or morally allowed, but under the conditions we have now, everybody is with all the right and reasoned against the execution of the

00:19:50.740 death penalties, because of the death penalties, because of so much murders in the socialistic, communistic states, totalitarian states, and also of so much errors, also in democratic states where

00:20:09.740 unguilty persons had been sentenced to death. But the question is of the argumentation. It's not belonging to the revelation. It's not belonging to the depositum fidei. What penalties the state is exercising for

00:20:37.740 for his people. This is belonging to the natural law. We say also, the Church has a certain responsibility for the natural law. On this level, the Holy Father could speak.

00:21:07.740 And this is the truth of the truth of the natural law. And we cannot argue with the development of dogma. The secular penalties are not belonging to the revelation. And this form of supernatural and revealed truths.

00:21:29.740 Yes. And therefore, I think, I am convinced of this, what the Holy Father said, but it should be better explained and with a better theological argumentation.

00:21:49.740 What would you say to the Catholic who argues that, well, I want to vote for this pro-abortion politician because I really like his stance on immigration.

00:22:03.280 And this pro-life politician who wants to end all abortions, he wants to restrict immigration and therefore I'm not going to vote for him.

00:22:11.380 Immigration is another question. Immigration is another question. It's a question of political and social argumentation. We are obliged to help people in all their needs and love to the next.

00:22:31.040 Immigration is another question. But the question is of this worldwide dimensions of immigration and it's not possible to evacuate all the Africa from young people and therefore they fall more in a crisis and to receive millions and millions of Africans here in Europe.

00:22:57.200 And at the end we will have disorder in Africa and also, and here, that is a responsibility of the politicians and the international cooperation to regulate all these problems.

00:23:14.200 Because this is very different from the immediate help in the case of absolute need in this occasion and therefore I think it is very important for the Pope and for the whole church, not only the Pope as a single person,

00:23:41.200 the whole Catholic Church, not only the Catholic Church to underline the Ten Commandments. That is the basis of our moral and then to help with moral arguments, also in the politics, but the church is not here to resolve the problems of the politicians.

00:24:05.940 But there is a certain autonomy, but there is a certain autonomy, also of political, of the politics, of the science and the justice and so on. And therefore the Pope, the priest cannot do the work of a policeman, not coming to the tribunals and say, I have my ideas.

00:24:30.940 Yes, there is independence of the natural existence and natural laws and conditions of our social life. The church is not a totalitarian system. There is a responsibility, there is a sacrament for the unity, complete unity of God and a human being.

00:24:55.940 But we are existent in the earthly dimensions and therefore we have the legitimate authority of the government, of the police and the justice and the parliaments. The Pope or the bishop cannot go to the parliament. They have no authority which is given by democratic elections.

00:25:23.940 But on the other side, the politicians are not independent of the moral, of the ethics. And this interference between political ideas and concepts and developments, at this level we have interference between ethics and moral and politics and other secular

00:25:53.920 institutions. But we are not a theocratic system as in some Muslim states. We have a separation between the spiritual power and the worldly power. 0.53

00:26:00.920 You have a separation between the spiritual power. You have a separation between the spiritual power and the worldly power.

00:26:07.920 You have a separation between the spiritual power.

00:26:08.920 You have a separation between the spiritual power and the worldly power.

00:26:14.920 Let's not mark naturally remain預qus and the humanjedthank?

00:26:15.920 And you have a preparation between the church, at this level, with the person who loved the dist сказать

00:26:17.920 in power and that the sexual power were t enhanced interpretation. 0.96

00:26:18.920 You have to expect better than the spiritual power to prove that things were not asynchronous and세요,

00:26:20.920 whatever.

00:26:21.920 Partially because you were willing in charity, but willing to speak up to say that some

00:26:27.920 of these directions that we are headed in, aren't up the proper ones according to your knowledge

00:26:34.920 of the faith. But it cost you. Were you to be able to redo it again? would you not yield it when the Church was 25

00:26:42.920 Would you not do that, or would you still do the same thing for the love of the Church?

00:26:49.160 All my life I worked for the Church, beginning as a child, a young boy, and God led me to

00:26:58.080 this position and I cannot be silent.

00:27:05.540 Everybody has this charisma and I cannot say I have one hand the power and the politics,

00:27:20.200 church politics, and now I must be silent and looking to all these things and developments

00:27:30.140 who are going wrong. We have our conscience and nobody can say the Pope or the bishops

00:27:41.860 or his friends on his side have illumination directly by the Holy Spirit. But the Pope,

00:27:52.140 the council, the synods, all are bound to the revelation in God and Jesus Christ and the

00:27:58.060 Bible and the apostolic tradition and we have the great theology, the Agosteans and Thomas

00:28:09.060 and the modern theologians and we are the religion of the Logos and we don't need only a blind

00:28:19.060 experience. That is absolutely anti-Catholic. We don't say, we have the leader, what the

00:28:26.060 leader says is always right, tomorrow is coming another leader and we follow him. They can

00:28:34.060 do it in the communistic party, but not in the Catholic Church. God gave us our intellect

00:28:42.060 and we will work with it.

00:28:49.060 Absolutely. Do you have anything else to say to the viewers at LifeSite News?

00:28:53.060 The last time was this question, are all religions are equal? Will by God is the will of God? I

00:29:03.060 think we must distinguish the color of our skin and to be male or female, this is given by our

00:29:15.060 nature, morally outside of all questions. But religion is a virtue, a moral virtue. You are obliged

00:29:28.060 by God to, for the veneration of God, the acceptance, the honoration of God, everybody is so. And

00:29:38.060 what we say in the Catholic doctrine, this concrete existing religions, in a plural sense, they are a

00:29:50.060 preparation for the Gospel. Preparatio Evangelii. But these are not the revelation. We have no

00:30:00.060 contradiction revelation of God. God reveals himself in his word in Jesus Christ and to us is given

00:30:07.060 only one name. The name of Jesus Christ and we believe in Jesus Christ if we cannot accept other

00:30:14.060 prophets on his side. That is not Christian, that is not Catholic. And surely I understand what is meant. The message

00:30:30.060 we should live in which we should live in a pluralistic society and nobody can be forced, urged by the state,

00:30:40.060 a non-religious authority to convert or to listen. The Clintons have this religion or this ideology and everybody must follow the gender ideology. That is absolutely 0.93

00:30:58.060 illegitimate that the Pope, that the Pope, the state, is imposing an ideology or a religion. Also not the Catholic religion must not be imposed by the state. We are absolutely against the interference of the state is describing what we have to think.

00:31:25.060 And therefore everybody has this person. And therefore everybody has the right to believe of what he is convinced. This is the nature of freedom of religion. But the other aspect is that we as Catholics are convinced that there is only one God, there is no one God, there is no one God.

00:31:52.060 are convinced that there is only one God and one Savior and one Holy Spirit.

00:32:00.300 And if you say to yourself, I am a Catholic, you are involved in this creed,

00:32:08.760 respecting to the people who don't respect it or don't accept your creed.

00:32:17.500 But the other people must be so tolerant to accept our creed.

00:32:23.400 And we say, God will the salvation of everybody, but through Jesus Christ and in His Church.

00:32:33.500 And this is the way. We cannot abstract the will of God of salvation and deny at the same time

00:32:41.320 the means He gave to us, which is a communion of the Church and the seven sacraments.

00:32:49.440 The means of transmission of the grace of God.

00:32:54.980 Beautiful. Beautiful.

00:32:56.380 Your Eminence, I want to thank you very much for appearing on the John Henry Weston Show.

00:33:00.880 And if I could ask you to impart your blessing to all of us, that would be awesome.

00:33:04.780 May Almighty God bless you, the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.

00:33:11.740 Amen.

00:33:13.100 Coming to you from Rome, from the apartment of Cardinal Giacomilla,

00:33:17.780 this has been the John Henry Weston Show. May God bless you all.

The John-Henry Westen Show - June 04, 2019

Episode 12： Vatican’s former doctrine chief： Contraception is ‘intrinsically bad,’ Church can never allow it

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