The John-Henry Westen Show - June 25, 2019


Episode 15： Professor Roberto de Mattei explains the crisis in the Church - Part 1 of 2


Episode Stats

Length

16 minutes

Words per Minute

99.493866

Word Count

1,684

Sentence Count

92

Hate Speech Sentences

1


Summary

In this second part of our interview with Professor Roberto De Mattei, we discuss the impact of the Second Vatican Council on the Catholic Church, and the impact it had on the world at large. We also discuss Pope John XXIII's Apostolic Exhortation Apostolic Dei, and his role as a papal adviser to the Italian government.


Transcript

00:00:00.700 Hello and welcome to this edition of the John Henry Weston Show. We're very pleased to bring
00:00:05.420 you this part of a two-part interview with Professor Roberto de Mattei. Described as
00:00:10.900 the greatest historian on the Catholic Church alive today, Professor de Mattei is Professor
00:00:15.560 Emeritus at the University of Rome. He served as advisor for international affairs to the
00:00:20.000 Italian government. He cooperated with the Pontifical Council for Historical Sciences
00:00:24.600 and was awarded the Order of Knighthood of St. Gregory the Great by Pope Benedict XVI.
00:00:31.060 Between 2003 and 2011, he was Vice President of the Italian National Research Council.
00:00:36.840 He was also a member of the Board of Directors of the Italian Historical Institute for the Modern
00:00:41.140 and Contemporary Era, a Board of Directors of the Italian Geographical Institute, and member of the
00:00:47.260 Board of Guarantors of the Italian Academy at Columbia University in New York. He is President
00:00:53.860 of the Lepanto Foundation and directs the magazine Radici Christiane and the Correspondenza Romana
00:01:00.140 News Agency. He has published countless articles and nearly 20 books, including his latest, which
00:01:07.020 has been recently translated into English, The Second Vatican Council, an unwritten story. He considers
00:01:14.340 himself a disciple of Professor Plinio Correa d'Olivera, the great founder of the TFP. He and his wife,
00:01:22.380 Rita, have five children. Without further ado, our interview with Professor DiMatte.
00:01:30.000 Hello and welcome to the John Henry Weston Show. We're coming to you today from Rome,
00:01:34.880 where we are very privileged to be with Professor Roberto DiMatte, the head of the
00:01:40.400 Fondazione Lepanto, Lepanto Foundation here in Rome, as well as 501c3 in America as well.
00:01:47.160 He is the author of numerous books and articles, many, many, of a great movement here in Italy and
00:01:55.080 actually around the world. His latest book, The Second Vatican Council, an unwritten story,
00:02:00.420 has made a great impact. We'll be talking with Professor DiMatte about the crisis in the Church,
00:02:06.900 about Pope Francis, and we're going to start, as we always do, with the sign of the cross.
00:02:11.640 In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Welcome, Professor DiMatte.
00:02:17.560 Thank you.
00:02:18.900 So, in your book, you outline sort of the difficulties that we are experiencing today in the Church,
00:02:26.640 but having arisen or being evident even at the time of the Second Vatican Council.
00:02:32.080 Yes, I think that it is important to understand that the roots of the current crisis are in the 60s and above all during the Second Vatican Council.
00:02:53.920 My judgment on this Council is, above all, the judgment of an historian, rather than a theological judgment.
00:03:06.840 And from an historical point of view, I think that this Council was a really revolutionary turning point in the history of the Church.
00:03:20.860 And so, it is very important today to study this Council and to understand how deep were the consequences of this event in the history of the Church.
00:03:46.380 Now, you mentioned, too, about the different allocutions that the Popes gave to start and end the Council.
00:03:55.320 What were those, and what were the significance they have in terms of the outcome, or the outcome of the Council in the way it came out,
00:04:04.220 not only in its theological writings, but also how it was perceived?
00:04:06.960 Vatican II. Vatican II. Vatican II. Vatican II. Vatican II. Vatican II. Vatican II. Vatican II promulgated 16th among constitutions and declarations.
00:04:16.900 These are doctrinal documents of a different level and degree, but I think that from an historical point of view, more important than this document,
00:04:30.460 it is perhaps the opening of the opening allocution of Gaudet Mater Ecclesia is the name of this allocution.
00:04:39.460 John XXIII, the 11th of October 1962, opened the Vatican II with this allocution, and it is very important that this document
00:04:59.460 because it is not a doctrinal, but a psychological turning point, because of all the atmosphere of this document,
00:05:14.460 it is an optimistic atmosphere. We have to remember that this year was the year of Kennedy, of Khrushchev,
00:05:25.460 it seemed that a new era for the world opened, and Pope John XXIII believed in this happy future for the Church,
00:05:41.460 and he criticized what he called the prophets of gloom, the considered fathers who were skeptical about this optimism.
00:05:59.460 But history, 50 years ago, now, today, gives a reason to these prophets who were criticized by John XXIII,
00:06:14.460 because, unfortunately, what happened was a period of really unhappy for the Church and for all the humanity.
00:06:33.460 We live now in a terrible religious, moral, political, and social crisis, and I think that men like Cardinal Ottaviani,
00:06:51.460 or the same Monsignor Lefebvre, Monsignor Casomayre, other fathers who criticized the deprogressism in the epoch of Cardinal II,
00:07:04.460 who were best prophets than Cardinal Sünens, Frings, Alfrings, who announced a new era of happiness for the Church.
00:07:20.460 I would think, because it was around 1960, the Holy Father might also have been referring to the children of Fatima.
00:07:30.460 The message wasn't supposed to be revealed in 1960.
00:07:34.460 Yes. John XXIII and Paul XXVI, they opened, they read the message of Fatima, but for them it was a too pessimistic message,
00:07:52.460 and they decided not to reveal. We know that Our Lady called for the diffusion of this message,
00:08:01.460 because the right moment was exactly this moment, the 60s. Unfortunately, what happened was that on this message, there was a very heavy silence of the Church,
00:08:20.460 and in 1967, Paul VI went to Fatima. He met Sir Lucia. It was a really excellent opportunity for disvealing the
00:08:38.460 secret of the First Secret of Fatima for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, but nothing happened. This was really a failure.
00:09:00.460 Now, how does this all then play into the crisis that we're experiencing now, particularly the crisis around Pope Francis himself?
00:09:12.460 I think that Pope Francis is a concrete realization. His pontificate, the pontificate of Pope Francis, is an application of the spirit of the Vatican II.
00:09:34.460 Because the idea of the Vatican II was more important than a doctrinal revolution,
00:09:44.460 a revolution realized in the practice, a concrete revolution. It was the Marxist idea that the philosophers
00:09:58.460 first have the duty not to know the world, but to change it, to transform it. So, who transformed the reality is the revolutionary.
00:10:12.460 And from this point of view, the true revolutionary is not Marx, but Lenin, because Lenin made the French revolution.
00:10:22.460 If we wanted to apply this to the history of the Church, we can say that in the history of the Church, the true revolutionary is not the theologian,
00:10:38.460 the theologian, but he is the pastoral man who, in the daily practice, changes the reality. And from this point of view,
00:10:54.460 Pope Francis is the true revolutionary in the Church, not for his idea, but because he is transforming concretely, daily,
00:11:07.460 the spirit, the mentality. So, it is a psychological revolution more important than a theological revolution. It is the new paradigm of Pope Francis.
00:11:24.460 What would be, in your mind, some of the primary examples of that kind of change in paradigm, that kind of change in psychology that Pope Francis is manifesting in the Church?
00:11:36.460 Yes. I can give not one of the first examples, but one of the last examples. For the fact, when Pope Francis kisses the feet of some political leaders of Sudan,
00:12:05.460 this is a gesture, this is a gesture, more important than the Abu Dhabi declaration, which is a very bad declaration, but perhaps few people understand what the Abu Dhabi declaration means.
00:12:25.460 Many people understand what this act, the fact of Pope Francis kissing the feet of a political leader means, and it means the submission of the Church to the political power. It is exactly the contrary of the tradition, of the
00:12:55.440 the Church. The Church to the Church to the Kingdom of Christ, the reign of Christ, the primacy of the Church over the politics. And from this point of view, let me quote, as an Italian, a recent episode.
00:13:23.440 A recent episode. Some days ago, a political leader, the Italian, Salvini, has been criticized from Carolina Parolin and from other Catholic media in Italy, because in his political campaign, he kissed publicly the rosary.
00:13:50.440 And this has been considered as an instrumental gesture. He has been criticized for kissing the rosary. So it is really very strange that you can kiss the feet of political people, but a politician cannot kiss the rosary.
00:14:16.440 It is a paradox of the rosary. It is really a paradox of the current situation.
00:14:23.440 Well, we've seen this before with Pope Francis doing these gestures. We don't have the changing of the Church's teaching on abortion, let's say, but he meets with and praises Emma Bonino, the chief abortionist in Italy.
00:14:40.740 You don't have a change supposedly in reverence for the Mass, yet we watch him on television putting a beach ball beside the Blessed Sacrament on the altar.
00:14:52.540 So there are these strange gestures which really do shift the psychology in the Church.
00:14:59.540 Yes, yes, I agree completely. And I can add this. In these days in Rome, there was an extraordinary week for life with, for example, the March for Life, an international March for Life with thousands of participants of everywhere.
00:15:21.540 And the silence of Pope Francis of the Church. But there is something worse than this. In these days, there was the sentence of death for Vincent Lambert.
00:15:42.540 And we waited for Vincent Lambert and we waited for a public, strong appeal of Pope Francis and of all the universal Church for asking the right of Vincent Lambert to live.
00:16:04.540 But what we are seeing is that the decision for life or death of Vincent Lambert has been given to the United Nations.
00:16:19.540 So the United Nations today is the more important moral authority. It is the new Church.
00:16:27.540 The United Nations has the right of death of life on the innocent human being. And the Catholic Church is silent. I find it scandalous.
00:16:48.540 Of course.