The John-Henry Westen Show - May 07, 2019


Episode 8： What’s up with Pope Francis and Protestantism？

Topics
Holy Communion for Protestants
Hosted by
John-Henry Westen
Mentioned
Pope Francis Martin Luther Tony Palmer John Paul II Pope Leo XIII Cardinal Bergoglio Benedict XVI Jesus Christ Austin Ivory Gospel William Jacobus Eich Gerhard Müller Kimberly Hahn Antje Jakilin Walter Casper Raymond Burke Robert Serra
Episode 7： Why correcting Pope Francis is a true act of charity Episode 9： Is Pope Francis trying to open the door to contraception？

Episode Stats


Length

14 minutes

Words per minute

159.39

Word count

2,282

Sentence count

118

Harmful content

Toxicity

1

sentences flagged

Hate speech

5

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In his stunning 6,000-word letter on the sexual abuse crisis, Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI said something of great importance that was actually missed by most. In my special of The John Henry Weston Show, I talk about it and how it is linked to Pope Francis and Protestantism.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome to the John Henry Weston Show.
00:00:11.000 I'm the co-founder and editor-in-chief of LifeSite News.
00:00:15.000 What's with Pope Francis and Protestantism?
00:00:18.000 In his stunning 6,000 word letter on the abuse crisis released on April 10th,
00:00:22.000 Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI said something of great importance that was actually missed by most.
00:00:27.000 In my special of the John Henry Weston Show and the Letter, I talked about it and it was this.
00:00:32.000 He said, and I quote,
00:00:33.000 The Eucharist is devalued into a mere ceremonial gesture when it's taken for granted
00:00:37.000 that courtesy requires him to be offered at family celebrations or on occasions such as weddings and funerals
00:00:42.000 to all those invited for family reasons.
00:00:45.000 What was he talking about and why would courtesy require Holy Communion to be given out?
00:00:50.000 Yes, I know we see it at weddings and funerals for people not in the state of grace,
00:00:54.000 but how is this linked to Pope Francis?
00:00:56.000 That is what we're talking about on today's episode of the John Henry Weston Show.
00:01:00.000 Welcome.
00:01:01.000 I'm John Henry Weston, co-founder and editor-in-chief of LifeSite News.
00:01:05.000 Let's start as we always do with the side of the cross.
00:01:08.000 In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
00:01:11.000 Amen.
00:01:12.000 First off, every sincere Catholic looks forward to the unification of Christians in answer to the prayer of Christ himself.
00:01:20.000 We see recorded in John 17, 22, where Christ prays to his eternal Father for the future Christians.
00:01:28.000 And he says, Father, that they may be one, as we also are one.
00:01:32.000 That oneness has no room for differences in fundamental beliefs such as the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist, confession, and the intercession of Our Lady.
00:01:42.000 Yet, tragically, there have been splits in the Church which have caused many to be deprived of the fullness of the truth.
00:01:50.000 In the times of Pope St. John Paul II, there began a revival of Catholic faith among our separated brethren, in converts like Scott and Kimberly Hahn,
00:02:02.000 and the work of organizations like Catholic Answers that built up those converts to bring thousands back to the fullness of faith, to the sacraments, to Our Lady.
00:02:13.000 My own wife is among that number, and celebrating 20 years as a Catholic this year.
00:02:19.000 Pope Francis' approach to the question of those Christians who lack the fullness of faith has been very confusing.
00:02:26.000 His frequent talk against proselytism only makes sense if you understand proselytism to mean to force or pressure someone to convert.
00:02:36.000 However, from his statements and actions on the subject, it's still confusing even with that interpretation.
00:02:43.000 In October 2013, in an interview with La Repubblica, he said,
00:02:49.000 and I quote,
00:02:50.000 Proselytism is solemn nonsense. It makes no sense. 0.56
00:02:53.000 Later in the same interview, he said,
00:02:55.000 I believe in God, not a Catholic God. There is no Catholic God. There's God, and I believe in Jesus Christ, His incarnation.
00:03:03.000 End quote.
00:03:05.000 And here is the Vatican English transcript from October 2016, when the Pope was speaking in Georgia and Azerbaijan,
00:03:13.000 where he again criticizes proselytism, saying that it's a very grave sin against ecumenism for Catholics to try and convert Orthodox.
00:03:21.000 And I quote,
00:03:22.000 Let the theologians study abstract realities of theology. But what should I do with a friend, neighbor, an Orthodox person? Be open, be a friend. But should I make efforts to convert him or her? This is a very grave sin against ecumenism, proselytism. We should never proselytize the Orthodox. They are our brothers and sisters, disciples of Jesus Christ. End quote.
00:03:48.000 Very confusing indeed.
00:03:50.000 And during a Q&A session at a meeting with Lutherans and Catholics in the Vatican on October the 13th, 2016, the Pope responded to a question from a girl who asked about trying to convert her friends. And I quote, he said,
00:04:03.000 That's what the Pope said. Now, hopefully the Pope only means not to proselytize in the sense that we shouldn't try to force or pressure someone into accepting the faith.
00:04:22.000 However, in practice, the Pope himself, at least while he was Cardinal Bergoglio, has gone to the extreme of suggesting that someone who was wanting to convert to the Catholic faith remain Protestant, and had a very tragic result.
00:04:37.000 The story is actually recounted in the best-known biography of Pope Francis, that of Austin Ivory. In the 2014 book, The Great Reformer, we learn that Tony Palmer, an Anglican clergyman and longtime friend of Pope Francis, spoke to the then Cardinal Bergoglio wanting to become Catholic. Palmer described the then Cardinal's response as this.
00:05:00.000 Bergoglio told me that we need to have bridge builders. He counseled me not to take the step because, he said, it looked like I was choosing a side and would cease to be a bridge builder.
00:05:15.000 Now, tragically, Tony Palmer died in a motorcycle accident without ever entering the Catholic Church.
00:05:21.000 The story is actually retold by Austin Ivory in covering the tragic death of Palmer, writing in the Boston Globe.
00:05:28.000 And as you can see here, the quote,
00:05:30.000 At one point, when Palmer was tired of living on the frontier and wanted to become Catholic, Bergoglio advised him against conversion for the sake of mission.
00:05:40.000 We need to have bridge builders, the Cardinal told him, end quote.
00:05:46.000 But the story only starts there and gets more and more confusing.
00:05:51.000 In late 2016, Pope Francis traveled to Sweden to assist in the launch of a year-long commemoration of the 500th anniversary of Martin Luther's nailing of his 95 Theses to the door of the castle in Wittenberg on October 31st, 1517,
00:06:08.000 officially launching the Protestant split away from the Catholic Church.
00:06:12.000 In a lead-up event to the Vatican on October 13th, the Pope received a group of 1,000 Lutherans and Catholics from Germany in the Vatican's Paul VI Hall and addressed them from the stage where there was a statue of Luther erected.
00:06:27.000 Luther was excommunicated, and his theses were rejected by Pope Leo X in 1520.
00:06:33.000 This split in Christianity was the second major break-off after the Orthodox split in the 11th century.
00:06:40.000 Adding to the confusion, the Pope was photographed meeting with and embracing the head of the Church of Sweden when he went there, a female Archbishop, Antje Jakilin.
00:06:51.000 The Lutheran Church of Sweden, to which Pope Francis went for the celebration, accepts contraception, abortion, homosexuality, and female clergy, 0.80
00:06:59.000 all of which are strictly and unalterably forbidden in the Catholic Church.
00:07:04.000 In a joint document issued by the Vatican and the World Council of Churches, Luther was actually called a witness to the Gospel.
00:07:12.000 The document states this,
00:07:14.000 Catholics are now able to hear Luther's challenge for the Church of today, recognizing him as a witness to the Gospel." 0.85
00:07:23.000 Later, in 2017, the Vatican issued a stamp depicting Luther under the cross where Our Lady is traditionally depicted.
00:07:30.000 You can see it here. A description of the stamp reads,
00:07:33.000 "...the background shows the timeless view of the city of Wittenberg, where Luther nailed his 95 Theses to the door of the Castle Church in 1517, launching the Protestant Reformation."
00:07:45.000 And now we come to the heart of the issue.
00:07:49.000 Although for many of you it will be obvious that non-Catholic Protestants should not be given Holy Communion,
00:07:55.000 let's quickly review some of the reasons why.
00:07:58.000 St. Paul teaches in Corinthians 11, 27-29, this,
00:08:03.000 "...therefore whoever shall eat this bread or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord.
00:08:10.000 Let every man examine himself before eating of the bread and drinking of the cup.
00:08:14.000 For he who eats and drinks unworthily eats and drinks judgment to himself, not recognizing the body of the Lord." 0.71
00:08:21.000 Most Protestant denominations don't recognize the Eucharist as the actual body of the Lord, but regard it as a symbol.
00:08:28.000 In the case of some Lutherans, they believe in a sort of fleeting presence of Christ,
00:08:33.000 where during his service Christ is somehow present, but then absent himself.
00:08:38.000 Thus, the concept of things like adoration of the Blessed Sacrament makes no sense whatsoever.
00:08:44.000 In a very real sense, they don't recognize the body of the Lord, in the words of St. Paul.
00:08:50.000 Canon law is also clear on this point.
00:08:53.000 In Canon 844, subsection 4, we read,
00:08:56.000 "...if the danger of death is present or other grave necessity in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or the conference of bishops,
00:09:04.000 Catholic ministers may licitly administer these sacraments to other Christians who do not have full communion with the Catholic Church,
00:09:11.000 who cannot approach a minister of their own community, and on their own ask for it, provided they manifest Catholic faith in these sacraments and are properly disposed." 0.57
00:09:21.000 So, the requirements that are laid out in canon law are these.
00:09:26.000 One, they must be in danger of death or some other grave necessity.
00:09:29.000 Two, they must be unable to approach a minister of their own faith and must approach the Catholic themselves.
00:09:34.000 They must show Catholic faith in the sacraments.
00:09:37.000 In other words, they must believe the Catholic teaching on the sacraments.
00:09:41.000 Four, they must be in a proper disposition, which means free from mortal sin.
00:09:48.000 And how do you do that without confession?
00:09:51.000 Of course, there is a perfect act of contrition, but it's difficult to come by, to say the least.
00:09:57.000 Now, the biggest pushers of Holy Communion for Protestants in the Catholic Church have been the liberal German bishops.
00:10:04.000 The leading prelate on the left pushing the agenda is Cardinal Walter Casper, who has pitched the idea for decades, meeting with refusal from Popes John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI.
00:10:18.000 However, it was Pope Francis himself who opened up the question again when he opined on the subject during a visit to a Lutheran Church in Rome in 2015.
00:10:29.000 Here, in this video footage, you will see the Pope is asked by a Lutheran woman whose husband is Catholic if she can't receive communion with her husband at the Catholic Mass.
00:10:39.000 Pope Francis appears to suggest that if she is comfortable in her conscience receiving the Holy Eucharist, she should feel free to go ahead.
00:10:47.000 He tells her, and I quote,
00:10:49.000 Speak with the Lord and move forward, I dare not say more.
00:10:53.000 And do you notice the great theologian Pope Francis refers to that's in attendance there is none other than Cardinal Casper himself, the lead pusher of communion for Protestants.
00:11:05.000 This talk of Francis launched a long debate among high-ranking Catholic clergy.
00:11:11.000 In fact, the head of the Vatican's dicastery dealing with the sacraments, Cardinal Robert Serra, corrected the Pope pretty much head on in an interview in which he said,
00:11:21.000 Inter-communion is not permitted between Catholics and non-Catholics. You must confess the Catholic faith. A non-Catholic cannot receive communion. That's very, very clear. It's not a matter of following your conscience. End quote. 0.85
00:11:33.000 The German bishops pushed more and more for allowing inter-communion in the years after Pope Francis' 2015 Address. Going so far, in fact, as to vote for the proposal at their bishops' conference in February 2018.
00:11:47.000 Seven German bishops wrote to the Pope to protest that vote. Cardinal Raymond Burke and Cardinal Gerhard Miller and many other bishops issued statements countering the proposal,
00:11:58.000 when in May of 2018 it became clear that Pope Francis would not clear up the confusion on the matter,
00:12:04.000 Cardinal William Jacob Eich, Archbishop of Utrecht in the Netherlands, issued a statement saying,
00:12:10.000 Pope Francis' failure to give German bishops proper directives based on the clear doctrine and practice of the Church points to a drift toward apostasy from the truth.
00:12:20.000 At one point, it appeared that the Vatican had rejected the German bishops' proposal for allowing Holy Communion for non-Catholic spouses,
00:12:27.000 a letter issued by the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith took issue with a document of the German bishops' conference allowing for inter-communion.
00:12:37.000 But despite the appeals for clarity, the seeming Vatican clampdown, the Pope actually announced his decision to allow individual bishops to decide on the matter for themselves.
00:12:49.000 The Pope's surprise announcement actually came while he was on a plane in an interview.
00:12:54.000 He suggested that the only reason why the German bishops' document was not approved in the first place is because it suggested a law for the whole country or church,
00:13:04.000 while canon law insisted that the individual bishops decide themselves.
00:13:08.000 So, subsequently, several German bishops praised the Pope's approval and have publicly announced the allowance of Protestant inter-communion in their dioceses.
00:13:17.000 And this brings us back to the beginning.
00:13:20.000 As you recall, our motto at LifeSite is caritas and veritate, love and truth.
00:13:24.000 How can it be love to deny someone Holy Communion?
00:13:28.000 Well, it's the Holy Bible itself that tells us this very plainly.
00:13:32.000 St. Paul said in his letter to the Corinthians that I mentioned earlier,
00:13:36.000 Therefore, whoever shall eat this bread or drink this chalice of the Lord unworthily shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord.
00:13:45.000 Let every man examine himself before eating of the bread and drinking of the cup,
00:13:48.000 For he who eats and drinks unworthily eats and drinks judgment to himself, not recognizing the body of the Lord.
00:13:57.000 Why would we want our brothers and sisters to be eating and drinking judgment unto themselves?
00:14:03.000 How is that loving them?
00:14:06.000 That concludes this episode of the John Henry Weston Show.
00:14:09.000 Be sure to sign up and receive notices of each new episode and any special episodes at the links below.
00:14:16.000 Thank you for joining me and may God bless you.