The John-Henry Westen Show - EXCLUSIVE： Bishop Strickland urges Margo Naranjo’s parents to trust God, not abandon their daughter

00:00:00.480 Common sense that I saw says, Margo's getting upset.

00:00:04.700 She can't say, Mom, don't do this.

00:00:07.080 And she can't really indicate and say, oh, she's just moving around.

00:00:11.040 But I see an agitation in her that you don't see

00:00:15.560 when her mother's not talking about ending her life.

00:00:19.640 My friends, I'm sure you've all seen by now the case of Margo Naranjo,

00:00:31.920 the young woman whose parents came and went viral, really, on social media platforms

00:00:36.940 because they've been covering forever their daughter,

00:00:39.860 who was in a very severe car accident and ended up very disabled.

00:00:44.860 And now they're talking about withdrawing nutrition, hydration.

00:00:48.160 They were very public about this.

00:00:50.200 And of course, that's against Catholic teaching.

00:00:52.220 We have Bishop Strickland on to address this, to address what's really going on.

00:00:57.220 And actually, he is intimately involved in this subject

00:01:01.160 because he intervened in a case very similar to this one in Texas.

00:01:07.980 And this is also happening in Texas.

00:01:09.860 So you're going to want to stay tuned to this episode of The John Hunter Weston Show.

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00:02:23.620 Bishop Strickland, so good to be with you.

00:02:29.340 Thanks, John Henry.

00:02:30.400 Good to be with you.

00:02:31.440 And let's begin, as we always do, with the Son of the Cross.

00:02:33.360 I'll have you lead it, and perhaps with a short prayer for the family as well.

00:02:37.240 Sure.

00:02:38.040 In the name of the Father, of the Son, of the Holy Spirit.

00:02:41.000 Amen.

00:02:41.620 Amen.

00:02:42.480 Almighty God, as we discuss all these important issues,

00:02:46.020 help us to all keep at heart Margo and her parents and all the family that surrounds them

00:02:54.260 with all of this struggle, help them to know that they are embraced in your love and compassion

00:03:00.520 and the power of your mercy and the sanctity of life.

00:03:04.380 And we ask this in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

00:03:08.580 Amen.

00:03:09.100 Amen.

00:03:09.280 So, first of all, this is the video of the snippet of the video, anyway,

00:03:16.340 where the mom explains what they're going to do, that they're going to pull nutrition, hydration.

00:03:22.540 And she says, we're not going to starve her to death.

00:03:25.360 But then she actually says, yeah, it'll only take her like four or five days,

00:03:29.700 especially because she's not going to have hydration at all.

00:03:32.340 And that'll be that.

00:03:33.520 Bishop Strickland, if you could tell us, what is wrong with that?

00:03:37.800 What's the problem with this situation over withdrawal of nutrition, hydration?

00:03:44.880 They seem to be Catholics.

00:03:47.240 The family is Catholic, yet they seem to be confused on the church's teaching.

00:03:51.480 What is the actual teaching of the church?

00:03:53.720 Well, thank you, John Henry.

00:03:55.820 Let me say first, because there's so many accusations that get thrown at us as Catholics,

00:04:01.620 trying to speak for the moral teachings, the sanctity of life.

00:04:05.560 Let us be very clear that our hearts go out in compassion to the parents, to the caregivers,

00:04:14.620 to everyone involved in this situation and countless situations like it with people of whatever age.

00:04:21.740 It's a tremendous burden to care for these people, but it's also a joyful burden.

00:04:27.480 And I just wanted to say that before we begin our discussion, because so often it's like when we're speaking for the sanctity of life,

00:04:35.900 we're accused of being heartless toward these parents.

00:04:39.580 But truly, it all fits together when we remember what God has revealed to us.

00:04:45.480 And basically, the Catholic teaching is in many ways common sense,

00:04:49.580 but it's also refined through revelation of what God has told us.

00:04:55.840 He's the author of life.

00:04:58.100 And that's the bottom line for respect that we always have to remember.

00:05:02.880 We didn't start this life, and we should be, you know, with only, with great trepidation, approach ending life.

00:05:12.180 So that is the basic framework.

00:05:15.040 God is the author of life.

00:05:17.200 And what the church teaches, it can, because medicine is complex, but the church's teaching is not that complex.

00:05:27.020 It says extraordinary means of sustaining life is not morally required,

00:05:33.320 but ordinary means is always required for life to be held sacred.

00:05:40.960 And so, okay, what's extraordinary, what's ordinary?

00:05:44.940 Food and water are not extraordinary.

00:05:48.320 And as you mentioned before we started, you know, some would say, oh, well, you know,

00:05:53.660 God didn't make feeding tubes, and God didn't make, you know, all the instruments.

00:05:58.500 But, yeah, we may be using some technology to provide food and water for someone who can't swallow.

00:06:07.780 They can get a feeding tube or whatever, or hydration, sometimes intravenously.

00:06:13.140 I'm definitely not a physician, so I don't know all the intricacies there.

00:06:18.780 But we don't need to know the intricacies.

00:06:21.480 We just know that having food and water, and you could say air, being able to breathe,

00:06:28.940 being able to nurture ourselves with food, being able to have water to hydrate our bodies, that's basic.

00:06:37.920 That is ordinary means, you know, that we all ordinarily, I mean, that's what keeping our health means,

00:06:45.440 that we take care of those things.

00:06:47.220 And that's what, when someone's monitoring their health and they go to the doctor,

00:06:51.520 they check all those systems to make sure they're getting proper oxygenation,

00:06:56.880 they're getting proper food, they're getting proper water.

00:06:59.720 That's basic.

00:07:01.040 And I think the broad scope of this for what the church teaches is,

00:07:07.500 when a child's in the mother's womb, by the wondrous design of God,

00:07:12.820 all that's taken care of, they're getting hydration, they're getting nourishment,

00:07:17.600 they're getting oxygenation through their mother while in the womb,

00:07:22.420 unless someone interferes with that, which is the tragedy of abortion.

00:07:26.700 But once born, then they breathe, and they receive food,

00:07:33.080 and they receive water in the natural way that we all do.

00:07:36.560 I mean, a baby learns to eat, and then we...

00:07:39.820 So for the rest of our lives, we are sustained by receiving that ordinary natural element

00:07:50.180 of nourishing our bodies.

00:07:52.240 Our bodies are physical, animal, you know, creatures that, of course, is imbued with a soul.

00:08:01.700 So we're created in the image and likeness of God.

00:08:05.600 But we're not...we are corporeal beings.

00:08:08.360 We have a body.

00:08:09.660 That body we have an obligation to care for.

00:08:12.340 And in these circumstances, the one that you've just mentioned, Margo Naranjo,

00:08:19.080 a young woman in a tragic car accident,

00:08:21.820 her parents, from what I understand, have done a valiant job of taking care of her.

00:08:26.400 We can understand that they're probably exhausted, but her life isn't exhausted.

00:08:32.240 God hasn't chosen to take Margo.

00:08:34.680 So to stop feeding her and stop giving her hydration, giving her water, is not morally possible.

00:08:43.560 It's not acceptable, as it wouldn't be for a newborn infant or for a 99-year-old elderly person.

00:08:51.980 So that's the basic teaching of the church.

00:08:54.940 Life is sacred.

00:08:56.320 God is the author of life.

00:08:57.840 And we can just look at the natural world.

00:09:01.700 I mean, not just at ourselves, but any animal organism needs those basics.

00:09:08.560 And if they're withdrawn, that animal is going to die.

00:09:11.900 We know that about dogs and cats and horses and cattle and all domesticated and wild animals.

00:09:19.140 They...all animals need those basics.

00:09:21.940 As creatures, we have to have those basics as well.

00:09:27.000 So, and again, it's common sense.

00:09:30.260 If you don't give an animal water, they're going to die pretty quickly.

00:09:34.920 They can live longer without nourishment, without food.

00:09:39.000 And many have lasted a long...animals and people have lasted a long time without food.

00:09:44.240 But without water, we don't last very long at all.

00:09:47.940 And we, you know, the cases that are, you know, have come to the forefront, the Terry Schiavo case

00:09:55.480 from years ago is still looked at and analyzed as a tragic violation of the sanctity of life

00:10:04.300 when her food and hydration were removed.

00:10:09.060 And I saw recently a video of her brother, I think it was his brother, speaking of how she began to look like

00:10:17.800 someone in a concentration camp because she was starving to death.

00:10:22.560 Just a tragic death of Terry Schiavo.

00:10:26.420 You mentioned Tensley Lewis.

00:10:28.540 Thankfully, that didn't happen.

00:10:31.460 But she was on the path of being removed from support systems.

00:10:37.240 I really don't know the details medically, but I know that there...

00:10:42.200 Tensley Lewis is a five-year-old now.

00:10:44.500 It was about when she was around two years old when her life was threatened, but she's still alive.

00:10:50.880 And according to her mother, she's at home and she has a human life that many may say,

00:11:00.780 you know, they use the language of quality of life.

00:11:04.000 And that's very dangerous for us seeking to live a moral understanding of the sanctity of life.

00:11:11.380 How can we judge whether a life has quality or not?

00:11:15.400 And there are many that judge, oh, well, this life doesn't have quality.

00:11:18.740 I mean, I think classically of children with Down syndrome.

00:11:22.300 I mean, there's some nations, and it's certainly pushed here rather quietly.

00:11:27.600 But when a woman finds that she's expecting a child that has Down syndrome, many times,

00:11:34.800 I'm sure we've both heard testimonies where they were encouraged to get an abortion.

00:11:40.280 Thankfully, women choose not to do that. 1.00

00:11:42.980 The mother says, no, this life is valuable.

00:11:45.680 And I think that's one beautiful illustration of the beauty that life has, that God has

00:11:52.200 in plan for the life that he offers, even if it's a Down syndrome child.

00:11:58.400 I've seen those children transform families and be a blessing to the community that they're

00:12:04.820 a part of.

00:12:05.640 So we have Terry Schiavo.

00:12:08.460 We have Tinsley Lewis, who thankfully didn't succumb to the death warrant that was being issued.

00:12:15.680 And now we have Margot Naranjo, who is in the battle right now. 0.88

00:12:23.540 And we need to compassionately, the greatest compassion toward those parents.

00:12:28.860 And I don't claim to understand what it must be like 24-7 to have this care.

00:12:35.300 But, and we need to develop better ways as we have with the life of the unborn and encouraging

00:12:44.860 women to not choose abortion. 0.93

00:12:47.320 Society and the church has developed many greater support systems.

00:12:53.480 And I think we can be prompted to do that.

00:12:56.060 This family needs help.

00:12:57.400 They need material help.

00:12:59.160 They need moral support.

00:13:00.880 They need just practical support.

00:13:03.220 Maybe someone there to help them so that they're not, so much of their time isn't absorbed

00:13:10.460 with their daughter.

00:13:12.160 Just humanly, to give them some rest, give them some downtime.

00:13:15.960 We probably need to develop care systems in our parishes and in our Catholic community to

00:13:22.820 recognize that need.

00:13:23.960 The needs can be overwhelming, but God's abundant gifts in giving us life are beyond overwhelming.

00:13:33.200 And so we have to keep that treasure and nurture that treasure in every way we can.

00:13:39.240 That's beautiful.

00:13:39.980 I mean, like we've developed crisis pregnancy centers, homes for mothers who have children

00:13:45.820 who are unwanted and they have them.

00:13:48.360 And there are places for them to stay for a year or for even more.

00:13:51.500 And perhaps there is a whole ministry to be developed there for people to be able to give

00:13:56.840 relief from the pro-life, active pro-life community, which is, which is stepped up or, you know,

00:14:02.740 in cases of abortion, that would be truly beautiful.

00:14:05.660 A lot of people do have questions about this though, because it's hard.

00:14:09.720 As you say, this is not easy.

00:14:11.720 And I'm so glad you said that because people have got to realize it's no easy task.

00:14:15.860 I've got friends in this situation who they've been urged to kill their daughter or to allow

00:14:21.800 the quote, allow their daughter to die by withdrawing nutrition, hydration for a long time.

00:14:26.480 And, but it's a struggle.

00:14:27.680 It's a struggle because their daughter needs 24 hour care. 0.86

00:14:32.020 And what are you supposed to do?

00:14:33.600 You might say different from a Downs child because they're not able to move at all type 1.00

00:14:38.240 of thing, or they're able to move, but not, you know, sensibly communicate in any which

00:14:42.320 way, not able to walk and so on.

00:14:44.180 And that's very much the case here with Margo.

00:14:46.600 So tell us about how do you think disabled people enrich our lives or does God have a 1.00

00:14:52.680 mission for them until at last he calls them to himself?

00:14:55.960 Absolutely.

00:14:57.140 And it, it really does cover the spectrum of life.

00:15:00.600 I believe I think of, as you asked that question, my mother had Alzheimer's and was like you said,

00:15:10.220 I mean, people can reach a point, even when they're elderly adults.

00:15:15.780 My mother was 81 when she died.

00:15:18.100 Elderly adults can be very much like, pretty much like an infant, you know, toward the end

00:15:25.800 of life.

00:15:26.560 And I think that that's, it just comes to me as we're talking about this, but a newborn

00:15:32.360 child, can they tell you anything?

00:15:35.360 Can they move?

00:15:36.780 I can wiggle their limbs, but they don't even, they can't even crawl when they're first born.

00:15:43.040 They can do nothing.

00:15:44.320 But we know that's a precious life because in our human understanding, we know they're

00:15:49.780 going to grow to the point where they can speak.

00:15:52.400 And, you know, and parents celebrate the first step, the first word, the first everything.

00:15:58.880 But I think we need to remember that infant was precious and giving blessings as another

00:16:08.000 child created in the image and likeness of God.

00:16:11.740 Long before they could say a word or have an action that was intentional, that did anything

00:16:18.200 for anyone.

00:16:19.780 They were valuable and precious.

00:16:22.440 And so if at any point along the way, and you might see Margo in that way, I mean, she's

00:16:29.780 in a full-grown woman's body, and she was a full-grown young woman, from what I understand,

00:16:36.460 very vibrant, very full of life.

00:16:38.840 She's still that precious person.

00:16:41.020 And she may be more like she was as an infant, you know, where she can't speak, and she can't

00:16:49.440 move on her own, and she can't care for herself. 0.89

00:16:52.480 But she's still that precious person.

00:16:55.040 And in the mystery of life, I know, I mean, I've known, and I'm sure you mentioned, you

00:17:00.120 know people now.

00:17:01.260 I've known people in my ministry as a bishop in all kinds of circumstances where this individual

00:17:08.420 that we call disabled or impaired or, you know, even in a vegetative state, we'll use

00:17:15.760 that language sometimes, they still are a human being.

00:17:21.360 And for people that allow themselves to embrace the gift that they are, yes, there are challenges.

00:17:28.340 There are challenges in having, you know well, you have a lot of children.

00:17:32.720 There are challenges to welcoming a newborn child into the home.

00:17:36.320 They begin to pretty much become the focus.

00:17:39.280 That even becomes some sibling issues, because mom and dad are so focused on this new infant

00:17:45.080 that can't do anything for themselves.

00:17:47.020 So I think there are a lot of just natural, if we open our eyes and don't approach this

00:17:52.660 as a problem that has to be solved, but just a mystery that we have to try to embrace and

00:17:58.880 understand.

00:17:59.400 I think it's not that different for Margo's situation than, and I think, I'd pray that

00:18:05.920 her parents can, and I know that it's a burden, I know it's exhausting, but her parents loved

00:18:12.080 her as that newborn when she probably couldn't do, she was about the same circumstances.

00:18:19.360 It's odd for us, and it somehow is counterintuitive for us to see a full-grown adult body in the

00:18:28.820 condition of an infant.

00:18:30.560 But if they are, they're still precious to God and hopefully precious to us.

00:18:38.400 And I guess really, John Henry, one of the main reasons that struck me as I began being

00:18:45.320 aware of Margo's situation, one of the main reasons we need to really engage with this

00:18:51.840 when it hits the news, when LifeSide News, thankfully, does an article on Margo, because

00:18:58.100 there are many Margos out there that are dying with no one speaking up, no one even aware. 1.00

00:19:03.860 And hospice, morphine and other medications are used to just zone people out to the point

00:19:12.260 of death, and that's tragic, because we're losing something that is deeply valuable.

00:19:18.240 We need to remember, as I started with, God is the author of life, and we should enable

00:19:25.800 someone to draw the last breath that God grants them, and not to prematurely interrupt their

00:19:34.020 life, just as we do in abortion, tragically.

00:19:37.080 But, you know, more or less in the spectrum of life, it's the same basic moral issues that

00:19:44.300 are involved.

00:19:45.400 We don't call it abortion when it's an adult person, but we are aborting God's plan of life

00:19:52.380 for that individual.

00:19:54.400 And I think we're desperately debilitated and harmed as a human community because we're doing

00:20:03.300 this so much, we are saying, we're denying that God's the author of life.

00:20:09.840 Of course, there are many that deny God, period.

00:20:12.840 But when we forget that God is the author of life, which is always the truth, whether we

00:20:18.220 believe it or not, God is the author of this love.

00:20:22.300 And when we start acting like we can turn it on and off and manipulate life, it is devastating

00:20:29.800 for the individuals involved in like Margo's situation, for Margo herself, certainly, but

00:20:36.300 for all of us.

00:20:37.620 And I thought it was very interesting.

00:20:39.240 I've just seen a few of the videos of the family and all, but I think a lot of people

00:20:45.120 just, and I guess I'm not trained as a physician, I don't, but just common sense.

00:20:50.760 If you watch some of those videos with the mother, who I believe is a loving mother, but

00:20:58.000 needs to be guided to deepen that love and act on it properly.

00:21:02.980 But as she's talking about ending Margo's life, common sense that I saw says, Margo's

00:21:10.620 getting upset.

00:21:11.860 She can't say, mom, don't do this.

00:21:14.260 And she can't really indicate and say, oh, she's just moving around.

00:21:18.140 But I see an agitation in her that you don't see when her mother's not talking about ending

00:21:26.100 her life.

00:21:27.460 And we've probably both seen, and there are many well-recorded medical cases where people

00:21:34.640 in Margo's situation, you know, miracles can happen, but it's not likely that she would

00:21:41.080 ever just sort of come out of the situation she's in.

00:21:45.120 But people in similar circumstances, comatose or in very debilitated, they have come out

00:21:52.440 of it and they testify that they heard people talking about their life and whether it was

00:22:01.080 going to continue or not.

00:22:03.240 And I think we need to, and I guess the final thing I would say, a great doctor that I've

00:22:08.980 worked with, I think a very important point here is, and again, it's founded on God as

00:22:15.540 the author of life.

00:22:17.400 We are only here as stewards of that gift.

00:22:20.740 We are not, we don't have the authority to say, this life needs to end.

00:22:26.220 We're doing that too much.

00:22:27.620 I think when it's a case, when it's a question of life, we always need to default.

00:22:36.360 If it's, if we're not sure, if we don't know really what Margo's dealing with and what's

00:22:45.480 going on in her mind and in her soul and in her heart.

00:22:49.400 But when we don't know, and it's a sanctity of life issue, I believe we need to default

00:22:57.000 to what is the most robust protection of life that we can offer.

00:23:04.580 Because we don't know.

00:23:05.900 There are many questions.

00:23:07.640 I mean, the medical questions about when life ends and how someone's life is in any given

00:23:15.440 moment, I mean, I think we just, there are many, there are many mysteries still in medicine

00:23:21.260 and medicine and science.

00:23:23.140 I think we need to default to, if we don't clearly know absolutely the answer, we need

00:23:31.140 to say in doubt, always default to the, to the greatest respect for life possible.

00:23:37.840 And I think in Margo's case, that's not even to me a huge question.

00:23:42.280 She's clearly alive.

00:23:43.500 She's clearly interacting in some way with her environment. 0.83

00:23:49.060 And to, to just say, we're going to end her life.

00:23:52.660 I frankly think Margo's saying, don't do this to me.

00:23:57.080 And we need, even though she can't form those words, we need to, if there's a doubt of her

00:24:04.520 condition and what she's experiencing, we need to default to protecting her life. 0.85

00:24:10.620 One of the things I think that many people don't think about is, is that even when you

00:24:15.260 are providing nutrition, hydration by artificial means, because you have to, as in the case

00:24:19.780 of a, of a, of a newborn or in the case of Margo, you're not forcing them to stay alive.

00:24:26.400 If they are dying, otherwise dying, their body can't use the nutrition, hydration and won't

00:24:32.140 be, and they will still die. 0.70

00:24:33.880 So you're not keeping the person alive.

00:24:36.160 You're providing them the necessities of life so that should their life be still ongoing,

00:24:43.200 should their bodies be able to assimilate those nutrition, that nutrition and hydration that

00:24:48.000 they're getting, that that's, they're just alive.

00:24:50.940 That's very important, John Henry, because in my own mother's case, she reached the point

00:24:56.340 where the nutrition wasn't working.

00:24:59.480 I mean, she wasn't eating much, she had no interest in food, but even just physiologically,

00:25:07.520 she wasn't absorbing the nutrients.

00:25:09.980 So like you said, when you're dying, you know, you can't just say, we're going to keep feeding

00:25:15.140 this person and keep them alive.

00:25:16.960 If, if they're destined to die, food and water are not going to keep them alive.

00:25:21.820 And I think that's a great point that, you know, that's a basic component of someone

00:25:27.380 who is living, but if they're dying, you can give them tons of food and water and that's

00:25:33.160 not suddenly going to keep them alive.

00:25:36.200 Yet if they're dying, they're going to die.

00:25:38.860 So one of the really sad parts about this story, at least for me, in fact, probably the

00:25:42.360 saddest part is that these Catholic parents who seem to have struggled mightily and done

00:25:48.840 the best for their daughter that they could, they've, they've, they've blogged about this

00:25:52.440 from basically day one of the accident and spent so much time in prayer, begging God

00:25:57.520 for, for help.

00:25:58.560 It seems they're really confused on the church's own teaching.

00:26:02.300 I can't help but think that involves somewhat the church's shepherds and leadership failing

00:26:11.040 to teach the truth.

00:26:13.020 This was taught clearly by Pope John Paul II about the need to provide the basics, as

00:26:19.580 you said, for nutrition, hydration.

00:26:21.520 But yet there are many, even in the Episcopate, even among the bishops, I don't know, they seem

00:26:26.560 to reject the teaching.

00:26:29.000 Even in your case of, that you mentioned of Tinsley Lewis, you were the only bishop in Texas

00:26:35.400 who was advocating for Tinsley while the others seemed happy to, or not, I shouldn't say happy,

00:26:43.040 but seemed ready to not speak while that child would be deprived by the hospital against the

00:26:51.020 wishes of her mom to receive nutrition, hydration. 0.69

00:26:55.040 Yeah.

00:26:55.320 Really, John Henry, I think you put your finger on something that is an issue that we need to

00:27:00.620 address in the church throughout the world, I believe, is, you know, medicine, where did it

00:27:07.780 come from?

00:27:08.320 It came from human beings at using their God-given intelligence and abilities to create some

00:27:16.200 wondrous, I mean, interventions and ways to assist people that, you know, 100 years ago

00:27:22.400 didn't exist.

00:27:23.100 I mean, medicine's always progressing.

00:27:25.200 But I think, for lots of reasons, to me, it's a symptom of where we find the bishops in

00:27:33.000 so many areas, where, you know, as a bishop, you know, I need to be stronger in being a bishop,

00:27:42.080 being a successor of the apostles.

00:27:44.480 And I think we've almost been trained and formed as priests and bishops to bow to, oh,

00:27:52.140 the scientific world knows that, or medicine can answer those questions.

00:27:57.380 We have to represent the truth that God has revealed to us.

00:28:01.500 And we need, you do that always with love and compassion.

00:28:05.060 But I think we need to be stronger instead of saying, oh, well, the doctor knows best.

00:28:10.520 Maybe not.

00:28:12.000 And I mean, they're wonderful doctors, but they're also, medicine is a huge business.

00:28:17.800 And the medical costs are a factor that is always out there.

00:28:24.000 We need to bring that ethical, moral voice much more powerfully, much more robustly than

00:28:31.900 what I see, what we tend to do.

00:28:35.220 I mean, and back years ago, the Terry Schiavo case, the church wasn't strong in saying, don't

00:28:42.340 do this.

00:28:43.180 I mean, the courts got involved in all of that.

00:28:45.340 And that's another element.

00:28:47.260 I mean, we tend to shy away when, well, the courts have to decide, or doctors have to

00:28:55.980 decide, or somebody else has to decide.

00:28:59.480 We need to always, certainly, there's expertise there that we need to pay attention to.

00:29:05.060 I don't claim to be a legal expert or a medical expert, but we need to be the experts of God's

00:29:13.040 revelation of love and truth to humanity.

00:29:16.460 And we need to be a strong voice in the marketplace, on the public square.

00:29:21.920 And in many ways, we're encouraged not to be.

00:29:25.300 I mean, I think it's part of a whole trend that, you know, we're both aware of, not just

00:29:30.460 religiously, but I mean, we would both agree that our Catholic faith touches every aspect

00:29:37.020 of our lives, how we spend our money, how we treat our bodies, how we live in the culture,

00:29:43.300 everything we do.

00:29:44.400 And we don't live in those terms.

00:29:47.240 Even as bishops and priests, we tend to respond to what society tells us.

00:29:53.440 Keep your faith in your home.

00:29:55.960 Okay, go to a church if you want, but don't let it be on those walls.

00:29:59.800 Don't speak in the public square.

00:30:01.700 Don't make a public thing of this.

00:30:04.420 And even in the case of Margo, I mean, there have been voices saying, you know, how dare

00:30:09.320 you as a bishop speak up on this?

00:30:11.500 You don't know what's going on.

00:30:13.300 Well, I don't claim to know all the details, but if somebody, if I'm told somebody's not

00:30:19.180 going to get food and water anymore, I have the moral obligation to speak up and say, at

00:30:24.940 least, you know, I don't think there can be a good explanation.

00:30:28.680 Well, okay, this is right.

00:30:30.480 Okay, they don't get food and water.

00:30:32.460 If they're dead, yeah, you don't give them food and water.

00:30:35.180 But if they're a living person, you continue, you don't withdraw the food and water until

00:30:41.180 naturally, maybe they quit drinking, they quit eating.

00:30:44.520 But that's not the case of Margo. 0.86

00:30:48.160 And I think that, going back to your question, I think we just need to be a stronger moral voice

00:30:54.920 as individual bishops, and primarily, that's where it needs to happen.

00:31:00.220 It's individually.

00:31:01.700 We rely too much on the conferences to answer these questions, where, where does it happen?

00:31:07.980 It happens in a local community.

00:31:10.140 It happens with one family.

00:31:12.280 It happens in a local parish.

00:31:14.700 It doesn't happen in some global circumstance.

00:31:18.400 I mean, that's where life happens.

00:31:20.560 It happens locally, and we need to speak better to where is God's voice.

00:31:27.900 It's not our voice.

00:31:29.360 It's not our opinion, but it's where's the truth that God has revealed to us.

00:31:34.420 What does that offer us to help us understand and to navigate these difficult and challenging

00:31:41.380 situations?

00:31:42.180 There's another aspect to this that's very disturbing, because what they're talking about

00:31:48.620 is starving a person to death.

00:31:51.920 The example that you gave of Bobby Schindler talking about his sister, he had to go in

00:31:55.720 and they were under guard not to even put like ice cubes on her lips so that, because her

00:32:03.280 lips were cracking and she was dying of starvation.

00:32:06.400 You could tell she looked like someone at Auschwitz.

00:32:09.540 I mean, it was insanely horrible for him, and he can't even speak about it now without

00:32:14.860 crying, without going through that trauma, because he had to watch as this forced starvation

00:32:20.700 was happening to his own sister, where he and his family, his parents were begging and

00:32:27.100 pleading to be able to give some sustenance to their child and refused.

00:32:31.720 It's horrific, because it's so horrific.

00:32:36.320 Like, and this is what's so weird about this situation.

00:32:41.060 Even if you totally throw out church teaching, you throw out everything, and you just were

00:32:47.700 like, just a humanistic person and said, okay, I want to end this person's life.

00:32:54.300 Like, why not do it quickly? 0.99

00:32:56.360 What are you doing with this, starving them to death? 0.96

00:32:58.620 Like, they have a guillotine. 0.98

00:33:00.080 They have shotguns. 0.63

00:33:01.380 Like, hello, if you're going to be honest about it, you want to take her out, take her

00:33:04.840 out. 0.99

00:33:05.020 Like, this, starving them to death, that's the most insane thing. 0.58

00:33:11.520 And we've actually similar.

00:33:13.260 In Canada, it was revealed recently, it was on Jordan Peterson's show, the way they administer

00:33:17.680 euthanasia, and the line from those who are for euthanasia, oh, they die so peacefully,

00:33:22.320 there's nothing.

00:33:22.740 Actually, they give them a paralytic first.

00:33:27.540 So, in other words, their whole body can't react to anything.

00:33:31.300 And then they give them drugs that basically end up drowning them on the inside.

00:33:36.300 It's like a nightmare.

00:33:38.900 And yet, this is what we have here, too.

00:33:42.200 There's not even the courage of their convictions.

00:33:44.640 There is somehow this torture them to death by starving them.

00:33:48.520 But it's the most bizarre thing.

00:33:50.240 So, any way you take this, it's terrible.

00:33:54.320 And that's what I, it is stunning to me.

00:33:57.400 I think that's an excellent point, John Henry.

00:33:59.600 And also, what occurs to me as you're talking, if what you just described, if it was found

00:34:07.920 out, I mean, and sadly, we see this, which is tragic, because life, even in the animal

00:34:13.840 world, needs to be held as a gift from God and something to be respected.

00:34:20.240 But if it was found out that you had a horse in your pasture, that you're not feeding and

00:34:27.900 wandering, that you're starving to death, that person would be taken, you know, taken into

00:34:35.240 custody.

00:34:36.180 They would be at least accused of a crime.

00:34:39.680 I mean, and that's a horse or a dog or a cat.

00:34:43.500 I mean, and I think those laws should be in place.

00:34:46.200 Cruelty to animals is a desecration as well of God's creation and of God being the author

00:34:53.740 of life.

00:34:54.580 Well, when it comes to human beings, it's, of course, on a whole different level.

00:34:59.360 But like you said, I mean, it wouldn't that, I mean, you know, just logically, sometimes

00:35:05.580 you don't want to be logical. 0.99

00:35:07.320 But like you said, if, if it's determined this person needs to die, well, shoot them in 1.00

00:35:13.660 the head, you know, just end it. 1.00

00:35:17.160 Don't at least prolong it.

00:35:19.060 You know, it's just bizarre.

00:35:20.880 We live in bizarre times where so many things are twisted and backward.

00:35:25.340 But, you know, the, the arguments against the death penalty and how to do that, you

00:35:31.760 know, humanely, I mean, what Terry Schievel went through was not humane.

00:35:38.800 And it was something that if someone can, you know, I mean, again, moving away from just

00:35:44.700 the animal kingdom, just to someone on death row.

00:35:48.080 If, if somebody said, we're just going to withdraw food and water from this prisoner.

00:35:53.820 You know, the uproar would, would be global.

00:35:57.660 And sadly, like, and I want to underscore again, this is happening in quiet ways in homes and

00:36:04.940 families.

00:36:05.320 Like you said, this family, at least they're trying and they, you know, they have the

00:36:10.100 Catholic faith.

00:36:10.980 They're struggling.

00:36:12.040 They haven't been well-informed, but there are many families that aren't struggling at

00:36:16.000 all.

00:36:16.360 They just decide we're going to do this and doctors cooperate with it.

00:36:20.700 And they may not have any religious affiliation at all.

00:36:25.040 And certainly in nursing homes and in hospice, like I said, through, through medicine, you

00:36:30.500 know, people are morphed to death.

00:36:33.700 I mean, it's chemical interventions are used to just end people's lives prematurely.

00:36:40.340 And that's what we, we, we have an obligation to speak up against because, uh, it's just part

00:36:46.720 of the death culture that Pope St.

00:36:49.560 John Paul II spoke of so often.

00:36:52.140 Yeah.

00:36:52.600 If we think about this same situation that's playing out publicly right now, going on over

00:36:59.400 and over and over every single day, many, many, many times a day, people are literally

00:37:05.500 starving to death, like in concentration camps, which is what we've been doing, not since

00:37:11.300 Terry Schiavo, even before Terry Schiavo.

00:37:13.600 It's a nightmare.

00:37:15.320 But in addition to that, to me, one of the saddest points is you have much of, if not the majority 0.99

00:37:22.580 of medical community, encouraging this and saying, like they did to the family, by the

00:37:27.320 family's testimony, that is, oh, it's fine.

00:37:29.800 It's fine.

00:37:30.680 The, that's not, they're not suffering.

00:37:32.440 Don't worry.

00:37:32.980 Don't worry.

00:37:33.460 This is the way it goes.

00:37:34.320 This is good.

00:37:35.320 And they mix that in with the advice from the church or lack of advice from the church.

00:37:40.120 So then they think to themselves, oh, and we're letting her go to heaven.

00:37:43.220 She's going to see Jesus.

00:37:44.800 It becomes a, such an utter confusion and manipulation.

00:37:49.960 It really is, I am at a loss for words to say what the, it's just horrible.

00:37:54.800 Yeah.

00:37:55.240 We, we just have to continue to speak out and do everything.

00:37:58.640 And of course, pray, pray for this family, pray for Margo and pray for all of those in

00:38:04.020 similar situations, like you said, in countless places around the world, really.

00:38:09.880 And I think I'd like to end on, on one more time, addressing the issue of the purpose that

00:38:16.100 God might have for people who are severely disabled, like Margo's case.

00:38:22.360 And there are people like this.

00:38:24.100 There are people who are incapacitated.

00:38:27.400 People are, their parents or caregivers have to take care of them sometimes so much so that

00:38:33.220 it's like a full-time job.

00:38:36.040 Why?

00:38:36.600 What is this for God?

00:38:38.460 And what is this for us?

00:38:40.280 Well, I think you touch on something that we do absolutely need to pay attention to, because

00:38:45.980 God's not only the author of life, but he's the, the divine caretaker of life.

00:38:51.480 I mean, every life, and we need, this is what we forget so easily because we got, what, eight

00:38:57.020 plus billion people on the planet.

00:38:59.080 And it's like one person, what's, what, what's one person for God.

00:39:03.920 And I think this is what we really need to embrace for ourselves, for you and me as men

00:39:09.400 living in this world, our families, for everyone.

00:39:13.580 We are wondrously precious to God, and he has a divine will for each and every one of us.

00:39:23.780 And shifting that to Margo, we don't know.

00:39:28.300 Maybe Margo, maybe she is suffering some.

00:39:31.580 I mean, certainly to not be the vibrant young woman that she was before this accident is

00:39:37.500 suffering, but that's part, that's one thread that I think we've totally discount in the

00:39:44.240 world, the value of suffering and in love.

00:39:49.640 I mean, suffering souls are something for, in our Catholic faith, that are, are a precious

00:39:57.800 element of the mystery of God interacting with us.

00:40:01.960 And so I think we, again, we don't know.

00:40:05.040 We don't have a lot of answers.

00:40:06.820 But when we don't have the answers, what if God's plan is that Margo simply living, even

00:40:14.560 with the suffering that is involved in her family, that God is blessing others with that

00:40:22.500 sacrifice, that loving sacrifice, that is, you know, threatened to be short-circuited.

00:40:29.720 So I think that there are just innumerable ways, because it's a life, a human being, one person.

00:40:38.980 I mean, even historically, we can acknowledge that one person can change the world.

00:40:45.960 Certainly Jesus Christ, who is God and man, but many simply humans, have changed the world.

00:40:54.340 And we have to have, we have to look with eyes of faith at every person, and not just in the

00:41:00.480 utilitarian way.

00:41:01.560 I mean, one of the phrases that gets most dangerous is quality of life.

00:41:07.180 How dare we be the judge and arbiters of the quality of another person's life?

00:41:14.440 I mean, many people suffer in silence, all kinds of things, but they can be sanctified

00:41:22.680 souls at the end of their life, if they do so in a spirit of faith.

00:41:28.320 When we start to short-circuit that, and that's where it gets dangerous.

00:41:33.180 I mean, beyond Margo's situation, the more we give in to the idea of, well, if the quality

00:41:40.600 of life doesn't meet some arbitrary standard that we've set, then they can be disposed of,

00:41:47.860 then who's making that arbitrary standard?

00:41:51.060 And what is quality of life?

00:41:53.820 And frankly, we're already there with people in the world saying, oh, we need to eliminate,

00:42:00.460 we need to downsize the population to about 500,000, because that's what the planet in their 0.94

00:42:07.420 mind will really sustain. So that means the quality of life of the vast, you know, the other

00:42:14.000 billions, in that person's judgment, their quality of life doesn't meet the standard.

00:42:21.040 That is a very dangerous path. And we're really on it as humanity right now. Thankfully,

00:42:27.880 it's not an overwhelming voice, but people that have money and power, and sometimes an extreme

00:42:35.300 money, wealthy people and powerful people are saying, we're doing, you know, they may well

00:42:45.140 deem that my quality of life and your quality of life doesn't meet their standards. Because once it

00:42:51.140 becomes an arbitrary human standard, that is, it's diabolical, and it's dangerous for the human

00:42:59.260 community. So, I mean, beyond, certainly the most important thing is to see the quality of one life,

00:43:07.640 the value of one life in Margo Navarro, Naranjo. But, you know, beyond that, if her life has no,

00:43:18.100 no value, that really no life has any value. And as many have said, when the life of an unborn child

00:43:26.700 has no value, then someone like Margo ends up where she's threatened, and too many others. 0.98

00:43:33.780 As you're speaking there, it reminded me of Bishop Fulton J. Sheen, who talked about when it came to

00:43:39.860 power, the power of offering, or the power of prayer, the power of being able to influence the world.

00:43:46.980 He ascribed the greatest power to those who were the sick and the suffering in the hospital beds,

00:43:54.440 confined to their beds and unable to do anything else because they could offer their sufferings,

00:44:00.060 their sickness, in union with the only sacrifice of the mass. That was, for him, the power centers.

00:44:05.980 And, you know, we've sort of lost touch with that. And it's a big, big deal as well for those who are

00:44:13.060 the caregivers. They are not confined, but it's a suffering. It's a real hardship. It's not a,

00:44:20.820 it's a life given in a way like a, very much like a religious who gives himself to one service over and

00:44:29.760 over again. And perhaps some people could say from some perspectives, you know, it's outside of the,

00:44:35.960 it's, it's the quality of life is so lacking because you're only doing this thing. You're,

00:44:40.800 you're doing a beautiful service. You're offering something that's probably the most powerful thing.

00:44:46.100 There's beauty there that's beyond what we can see because this life is not about, you know,

00:44:51.000 making your impact by, by building skyscrapers or whatever you think you're supposed to do,

00:44:55.860 but about serving God in, you know, knowing, loving, and serving God in whatever way he calls you to do.

00:45:00.960 So yes, absolutely. Any final thoughts for us? And I'd love for you to give us a final blessing and

00:45:06.380 perhaps another short prayer for the Nerano family, especially for Margo. Sure. In the name of the

00:45:13.280 Father and the Son of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Almighty God, we ask your blessing for all of us in the

00:45:20.780 human family. Help us to remember we are precious in your sight and help us to treat each other in that

00:45:27.480 way, to recognize that as long as we have life, you are with us and willing us to live this journey

00:45:35.780 of human life in this world. We ask your blessing in a special way for Margo and all the Margos out 1.00

00:45:42.540 there, the Naranjo family and, and all of the other families that are carrying these burdens heroically

00:45:49.940 so often. May they be guided to know your truth and to be uplifted and set free by the truth that

00:45:57.580 you have shared with us through your Son. May all the saints intercede for us and for Margo and her

00:46:03.580 family, and especially the Queen of Saints, the Immaculate Virgin Mary. And we ask this in the name

00:46:09.360 of the Father, the Son of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Thank you so much, Bishop Strickland. God bless you.

00:46:14.460 Thank you. Thank you. You too. And God bless all of you. And we'll see you next time.

The John-Henry Westen Show - July 25, 2024

EXCLUSIVE： Bishop Strickland urges Margo Naranjo’s parents to trust God, not abandon their daughter

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