The John-Henry Westen Show - Former Lesbian： A Priest's Attempt to Whitewash Sin of Homosexuality Harmed Me

00:00:00.000 I would love to say, my goodness, I just fell so in love with Jesus that I fell so out of love

00:00:05.840 with myself and women. Like, I would love to say that, but it was messy. Messy doesn't mean

00:00:11.740 celebrating sin, right? And we need to be very clear. There's a big difference. But

00:00:15.780 I was having a real hard time following his rules because I didn't know his heart.

00:00:20.780 The approach of Fr. James Martin and Pope Francis to homosexuality seems to be that of acceptance

00:00:33.460 of the lifestyle, rather than a welcoming stance which calls on same-sex attracted Catholics

00:00:38.780 who are engaged in homosexuality to abandon the sinful lifestyle and live in the freedom 0.99

00:00:44.840 of Christ. That is why Fr. James Martin has supported same-sex relationships and the Pope

00:00:52.060 has permitted the blessings of same-sex couples. That's why some priests have their parishes

00:00:57.900 participate in gay pride parades and some other priests wear rainbow stoles. That's why trans 0.99

00:01:04.720 couples are welcomed by the Pope and called married. That's why the Pope has backed same-sex

00:01:10.940 civil union legislation. And that's why Pope Francis has met with and encouraged many of

00:01:16.720 the LGBT-pushing groups in the Church, actually the same groups, condemned by Popes John Paul

00:01:22.900 II and Benedict. That's why Pope Francis has elevated to the level of cardinal many of the

00:01:28.820 bishops who backed the blessings of homosexual unions, not just couples, as if there's a difference.

00:01:36.480 But it's true. Christ welcomed sinners. And he did welcome them, but he also admonished them to

00:01:46.560 sin no more, as we've heard in the Scriptures. Now, what does the welcoming of sinners without the 1.00

00:01:55.060 admonition to sin no more do? Does it help or harm Catholics with same-sex attraction? After all,

00:02:03.180 same-sex attracted Catholics are the supposed recipients of all of the new policies being

00:02:08.560 promoted by the LGBT Catholic groups, Pope Francis and Father James Martin. So when a priest glosses

00:02:17.860 over in confession homosexual sexual activities, even those as innocent as a kiss, is it helping 0.91

00:02:26.060 same-sex attracted Catholics? Kim Zember was raised a Catholic, and she fell into a homosexual lifestyle 0.98

00:02:35.220 for a decade before she was rescued by Christ. But on her journey into the homosexual lifestyle, she met a 1.00

00:02:43.460 priest who did what we're talking about, who was all about ignoring the sin of homosexuality in an effort to be 0.90

00:02:49.520 welcoming and accepting. Stay tuned to find out exactly how that worked out on this episode of the John

00:02:56.480 Henry Weston Show with my guest, Kim Zember.

00:03:00.400 Kim Zember, welcome to the program.

00:03:02.440 Thank you. It's great to be on.

00:03:03.980 Let's begin as you always do with the sign of the cross. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.

00:03:10.640 Kim, I'm so happy to be on with you. Right off the bat, I wanted to thank you, just because of the work that you're

00:03:16.980 doing is able to affect so many, especially young people, people of all ages for sure, but young people in

00:03:24.780 particular who are so confused. If you wouldn't mind starting off with just a brief history. I know that's hard.

00:03:32.640 But if you can give us a brief sort of history on your life and coming to your amazing work, that would be awesome.

00:03:40.360 Absolutely. Yeah. Grew up Catholic. Grew up knowing a lot about God. But being honest,

00:03:46.980 I wouldn't say I knew him in heart. I knew from a young age that I was a little bit different than

00:03:53.440 the rest of the girls in many ways, not just in regards to sexual attraction, but kind of just in

00:03:58.620 general. And I never really saw a problem with that. I thought it was more them than me. I guess

00:04:04.480 that's probably a little revelation of pride at a young age, too. But in that, I remember always being

00:04:11.340 drawn to the little girls more than the little boys. I liked playing with the guys. But I just I

00:04:17.820 wanted to be close with the girls. And, you know, since I was young, it wasn't sexualized in any way.

00:04:23.780 I just thought it was kind of normal. And I really started to see, wait a minute, maybe this isn't as

00:04:29.080 normal when I got into junior high, and then into high school. And I was like, okay, I actually really

00:04:33.900 don't have the attractions, or I don't feel them, at least that a lot of my friends do for the guys,

00:04:40.320 I still saw them as brothers, as friends, you know, I didn't know if that had to do because I

00:04:43.880 had two older brothers growing up and started to kind of look at, okay, wait, did something happen

00:04:49.080 to me? Was I sexually abused, you know, and just starting to see that these attractions were more

00:04:56.000 going under the umbrella of homosexuality. And like I said, that that more happened, I would say in high 0.83

00:05:02.980 school, not acting on them, just realizing they maybe are there, and then maybe actually have been

00:05:09.640 there. And, you know, like I said, growing up Catholic, it was like, okay, wait a minute, this

00:05:15.180 is not God's way. And, you know, we can know something's not God's way, we can actually know

00:05:21.160 it to be true. Doesn't mean you still don't feel it, desire it, want it, right. And so, you know,

00:05:28.260 I was trying to figure it out, honestly, on my own, I didn't, I didn't go to people because I thought

00:05:32.860 okay, if I open up with this, I'm going to either be put in a little box by kind of the church at

00:05:39.300 large of like, oh my gosh, she's homosexual. And that's wrong. It's a sin. And I knew that, 1.00

00:05:45.680 but I didn't know how I'd kind of be taken in or perceived. And I didn't open up to my family

00:05:51.620 because it was scary. I'm like, I just won't act on it. And I don't even have to talk about it.

00:05:57.680 There was already shame. I will say this. There was already shame before I even acted on it. I did

00:06:04.340 not want this to come out. And so I fought it. It wasn't until my senior year that I decided,

00:06:09.720 you know what, kind of took an inventory around me. And I would say that I was at that season in

00:06:16.300 my life, seeing God more as a cop. And so I don't know about you guys, but for me, so long as I drive

00:06:22.900 slower than everybody else, I'm probably not going to get a ticket. And so I took an inventory around

00:06:28.380 me in high school, my senior year. And I'm like, okay, one of my best friends is pregnant. People

00:06:33.600 are drunk, getting high, all this stuff. I'm like, I think I'll be under the radar. If I just kiss my

00:06:40.440 friend, that's a female, what's the big deal. Right. And clearly even hearing that again is like,

00:06:47.000 that is not the voice of God, but it was the voice I heard. And it was the voice I actually wanted

00:06:51.980 to hear. Um, whether it was my own or whatnot, I just know it wasn't the Lord. And so I acted on it

00:06:57.400 and I will say that moment changed everything for me, everything. You can know that you have a desire

00:07:03.320 or, or, um, a longing, but when you fulfill it or try to fulfill it, something changes. Um, especially

00:07:11.040 if you enjoyed it and I enjoyed it. I felt safe as, as maybe strange as that sound. I knew that I was in

00:07:19.420 sin. I knew what I was doing was sin, but there was a safety that I felt with women that I didn't

00:07:26.020 feel with men. And so for me, you know, my other option, okay. The way I was seeing it again,

00:07:32.860 walking through this on my own was I'm either going to be single all my life. I'm going to be

00:07:38.060 uncomfortable with men or I'm going to be in sin and, and at least have someone. Right. And so for me,

00:07:45.920 that was the route I chose, but I hit it because I knew it was wrong. And as you said, I mean,

00:07:50.280 there's a book out there that goes through all the details, but I, I lived a double life. I

00:07:54.480 was seeking truth. Um, I went to a Catholic counselor. I went to a Catholic priest. I went

00:07:59.280 to a Protestant pastor. I mean, I was seeking and, and I kept receiving. I will, I again, paraphrasing,

00:08:06.520 but overall was really the messaging that I felt I received was you be you. God didn't make

00:08:13.580 mistakes on you. He loves you. God loves you. I'd hear that all the time. God loves you. I'm like,

00:08:18.680 okay, I'm actually not questioning if God loves me though. I might, I should probably look at that.

00:08:23.920 My real thing is what do I do? What do I do? How do I live in his ways? I know he loves me.

00:08:29.900 Aren't I called to love him back? And shouldn't I like deny myself, like at least deny this,

00:08:34.880 not deny that it's real, but not act on it. And then what do I do now? I'm just a 19 year old

00:08:39.680 single person that doesn't want to be a nun. So where does that leave me? You know? And, um,

00:08:44.900 so it was really heartbreaking and, and, you know, the Catholic counselor, even at some point and the

00:08:50.060 priest tried to tell me that I just didn't, cause I'm like, but it's in scripture. Like,

00:08:54.200 why is it in scripture? If you're saying God created me this way, why did he create me against

00:08:58.860 his own way? Like it actually created more confusion for me. And then I began to question

00:09:04.940 the scripture itself and then the Catholic teachings. And I'm like, wait, if this is an

00:09:09.780 issue, like if this, if you're telling me that, that we've misinterpreted this, then what else,

00:09:16.120 what else is misinterpreted? Just homosexuality. The one thing that I'm struggling with most,

00:09:20.960 I was like, that sounds a little too convenient. And, but I wanted to hear it. I wanted to hear

00:09:25.460 that because it, now I could do what I wanted to do. And God loves me and kumbaya, you know,

00:09:29.680 everybody we're good. And I'm telling you, it was, it was not that at all. It actually people

00:09:35.380 withholding the truth from me, I don't blame them, but I did go seeking counsel and them

00:09:42.720 withholding what is true actually helped create more problems in my life. Um, even though I knew

00:09:49.860 what they were saying wasn't true, I wanted to believe them. And I lived that out. Um, a lot

00:09:54.620 happened. I will spare the details, but I was a train wreck. I was an absolute train wreck and it

00:10:00.440 wasn't till October 17th, 2014 that I was absolutely woken up inside of me and said, you know what?

00:10:07.600 I'm horrible at playing God. I don't think he created me to be God over my own life. And so I

00:10:14.380 just threw my hands up and I said, Jesus, I'm done. I'm not going to take my own life. I'm not to that

00:10:20.120 point. I'm close. I was depressed. I was, I was, I was just miserable. I was out and open living as

00:10:27.100 quote unquote, God created me. But I knew inside that that's not what he created for me to be doing

00:10:31.820 and the way I was supposed to be living. And so I was a mess and I just gave it to Jesus. I said,

00:10:37.440 I don't just give you sexuality. I want you to be Lord over my whole life, but you need to show me 0.64

00:10:43.560 that you're good at being God because I've, I've, I've figured out I'm not, you need to show me

00:10:49.860 you're better. And if you are, you've got my whole life. And I'm telling you every single moment

00:10:56.500 since that day, I had a radical encounter with Jesus, um, that evening. And I'm telling you every

00:11:02.740 single moment since then he has shown and proven himself though. He wouldn't even have to, he is so

00:11:09.880 incredible is not even the right word, but to show himself faithful, true, good at being God good at

00:11:19.080 being Lord over my life. He's been tender and kind and patient when I haven't been, uh, see October 17th,

00:11:26.100 2014. I didn't just completely change. God revealed himself to me. And that's what I asked him to do was

00:11:32.860 reveal himself to me. Show me that he's good. I've heard it. I needed to experience it. And every day

00:11:39.220 since then he has, and I'm learning that his character, his nature is actually not dependent

00:11:44.140 on mine when I fail and fall. And I am, as some might say, you know, returning to my own throw up,

00:11:52.160 he shows himself faithful. I mean, I have never experienced a love like the love I'm experiencing

00:11:58.540 with Jesus himself and revealing the father, God, the father to me. I am realizing it's actually the

00:12:04.980 very love that I was seeking my entire life that I wouldn't even find in another male or another

00:12:13.360 female, another human being at all. And so it has been a journey. It will continue to be a journey. 1.00

00:12:19.260 I don't, I don't sit here today saying, and now I'm perfect, you know, at all. Um, I struggle. I've

00:12:25.900 had, I've had falls. I've had times where I've jumped into pits, but I've never stopped crying out to him.

00:12:31.440 And he's never stopped saving me. Um, I never want to abuse his grace. I never want to abuse

00:12:37.320 his kindness and his gentleness and his tenderness. What I've actually seen is the more that I receive

00:12:42.740 it, the more I can actually give all that he is back, back to him through me. And, um, I'm just,

00:12:50.280 I am so thankful. I'm so thankful for who he is. And I'm so thankful that he's God. And I'm not.

00:12:55.680 Indeed. How long did you actually live in that lifestyle or however you want to call it?

00:12:59.760 Yeah, I would say almost a decade. So it was, it was a long time in sin.

00:13:04.140 Here's an interesting thing. I mean, you raised a Catholic, which, which is, um, that, that brings

00:13:10.480 a whole other element, but you've someone who really can say, been there, done that, have the

00:13:15.940 t-shirt. So this is sort of the key demographic, if you will, that a lot of the members of the church

00:13:24.580 are trying to reach out to, at least they say so. Now you've had that one experience, um, as you

00:13:31.140 said, with a priest who didn't tell you the truth. If you go into that a little bit, what did he tell

00:13:38.020 you? You know, again, it can't be verbatim. It was, uh, quite a long time ago, but that I am so loved

00:13:43.540 by God and, and God is, well, I actually remember a time where I was talking with him. Um, and he said

00:13:50.120 along the lines of so long as it's a monogamous relationship that is mutual love, God celebrates

00:13:58.160 it. God is love, right? And he celebrates love. And I just remember in my spirit thinking, this is

00:14:06.180 not true. I mean, parts of it are true. Don't get me wrong. I know God is love. I know that he loves

00:14:11.920 love. I remember when he said this, I said, hold on father, and I will spare his name. God rest his

00:14:20.840 soul actually. Um, and I do pray for his soul and I pray and I, I continued to always when he was

00:14:27.000 living. But I remember saying, father, I'm going to be sexually active with this person. Like, I don't

00:14:33.720 want to, I don't want to paint a picture like, Hey, you know, we're just going to be like sisters,

00:14:38.280 you know, no, this, there will be sexual intimacy between us. So what, how is that? Okay. And like,

00:14:48.340 is that something I shouldn't do? Kim love is mutual, you know, the whole thing. So I was like,

00:14:54.480 my goodness. Cause I thought, you know, maybe I'm not painting the picture clear enough. You

00:14:58.980 know, I want to be very, without getting too detailed, think that was clear enough. And still

00:15:04.040 nothing of, you know, um, celibacy or call the singleness or meeting me where I'm at walking with

00:15:12.660 me as a priest, someone who I pray was practicing the same thing and living that out, but same sex

00:15:19.580 attraction or not. Right. We're talking about sexual intimacy before marriage, like female, 0.99

00:15:27.580 female, male, female, like, no, no, not God's plan, not his way, not his heart.

00:15:33.760 It is stunning because this happens on many levels. So you have the, the priests who give

00:15:38.580 false counsel, which, um, you know, Lord forgive him. That's that, you know, our Lord said,

00:15:44.400 you know, of them, it'd be better for you to have a millstone tied about your neck and thrown into

00:15:49.660 the sea. So let's pray there was some turnaround and repentance there, but it is a grave temptation,

00:15:55.400 especially today. I'm sure. Um, some priests, perhaps in some countries, Canada, like where I

00:15:59.840 live, they wonder if forgiving true counseling, they might not be, uh, finding themselves in trouble

00:16:05.380 with the law. Seriously. But there's another thing going on in the church today. And it's very,

00:16:11.080 very widespread. Probably the greatest champion is Father James Martin. It's a different approach

00:16:19.100 to, um, homosexuality. It's, it's, it falls along the lines of what the priest said to you,

00:16:27.160 but it's a slow approach to get there. Um, one of the latest things that was manifested is the

00:16:35.020 document from the congregation or now dicastria of the doctrine of faith titled Fiducia Supplica.

00:16:41.080 It talks about the blessing of couples in irregular unions and same-sex couples.

00:16:50.500 As someone who's sort of been there, done that, and lived a life as a Catholic

00:16:55.660 and having come out to a great, amazing love of Christ, I'd love to hear your take

00:17:05.220 on the blessing of same-sex couples. Anybody who is going to bless or celebrate something that Jesus

00:17:12.820 Christ himself did not bless or celebrate is a grave concern to me. Not just for eternity,

00:17:22.880 let's the largest thing we're all going to face at one point, but also for their life here.

00:17:28.960 You know, um, to me, a person always, if, if someone comes and says, Father, will you,

00:17:38.920 will you pray for me? Will you pray blessings over me? You know, I've never, I've, I've asked many

00:17:44.220 times, priests at an airport or, you know, wherever. And they've never said, well, what are you sinless?

00:17:50.120 Right. No, what I'm not saying is, Father, will you bless the sin in my life? Will you celebrate

00:17:55.660 the sin in my life? Right. But, but a person always, always is worthy of a blessing because

00:18:02.700 they're a creation of God. And, and, and if we don't hold onto that, we're missing it. And we

00:18:07.620 might be a little bit of the older brother in the parable, right. Of the prodigal son.

00:18:11.740 And so to me, and, and I don't, I think my, my struggle with the document is a lack of clarity,

00:18:19.800 right? We're in a time of confusion and we know that the author of confusion is not Jesus. It's

00:18:26.640 not God. It's not Holy spirit. The author of confusion is the devil. Right. And so for me,

00:18:32.860 when, when I think that there, when I, when I sense just as, you know, when I read something,

00:18:38.320 I want to understand what I'm reading, I don't want loopholes because I'm, I'm seeking truth.

00:18:43.900 And so my biggest issue with the document is I, I see beauty in it because they're saying

00:18:49.220 everybody deserves a blessing. And when I personally read it, I don't see it blessing the union,

00:18:57.180 the, the irregular union, a same section. I didn't read it as that personally when I read it,

00:19:03.600 but I know many who have read it and they see it that way. So I'm like, okay,

00:19:07.820 so my kind of issue overall is, can we get some clarity? Can we get some clarity? Are we blessing

00:19:14.020 the union or are we blessing the person? Right. And, and, you know, I don't have a theological

00:19:23.180 background. I don't have a theology degree, and I don't know that I should need one to be able to read

00:19:30.320 the teachings of, of our church. The fact that there's some priests and some leaders saying,

00:19:36.060 oh, praise God. Now we can start blessing you, you know, homosexual unions. I'm like, 1.00

00:19:41.260 I didn't read that at all. Um, and then we have some priests that say, oh, thank God, you know,

00:19:46.580 we can administer blessing to people. I'm like, okay, that I read. So some of my concern is that

00:19:51.660 we're reading this document through a foggy lens. We're reading it through the lens in which we want

00:19:57.560 to see it. And that is concerning to me when a document comes out that it can lead one way or

00:20:02.960 another. My biggest issue, I personally, when I read it, do not feel that that document says,

00:20:09.360 and now the Catholic church blesses same-sex unions. How I read it, um, as Kim Zember was

00:20:16.760 blessings are to never be withheld from anyone, no matter what they're struggling with. But I didn't

00:20:23.640 see it as a blessing of the union. I would have grave concern, grave concern. Now, could it,

00:20:30.340 could this document possibly lead to that? Well, I don't want to be presumptuous. I want to be aware,

00:20:36.320 but I don't want to say that that is what it's doing. I think we need to be in it. We're in a

00:20:40.280 time where we need to look at words. We need to look at what's in front of us and we need to not

00:20:45.320 jump to conclusions because we might start making assumptions about leadership and about things.

00:20:51.600 We can have those, but I pray those assumptions are we, we give those to the Lord and we pray for our

00:20:57.260 church in this time. Um, before we say, see, I told you, look, what's going to happen. And

00:21:01.660 because that that's a scary place to be too. We do want to be aware and we need to be prayerful.

00:21:06.320 We need to be fasting. We need to be asking questions. Um, but I just think we need to be

00:21:11.920 very careful with preconceived notions, check our own lens, Lord cleanse my eyes, my heart,

00:21:18.700 my mind. Let me read this document as it is not as I want it to be, or think it is, or,

00:21:23.720 or assume it to be. So one of the issues that I think a lot of the people who, well, mostly

00:21:31.320 the people in the world who aren't necessarily in the church, they're just watching what's been

00:21:37.140 happening. They're seeing Pope Francis as being the most open Pope in the world's history on for

00:21:45.380 homosexuality. He was on the cover of many, many gay magazines right from the start with his who am 0.71

00:21:50.840 out of judge comments. And they were taken out of context, by the way. Um, he was talking about a

00:21:55.420 priest who was involved in whatever, but where it did start to become more clear was in 2015,

00:22:01.520 he welcomed a transgender couple to the Vatican. He called them married and happy later on in the

00:22:07.780 film that he did. He talked about same sex unions and being in support of that. Um, and those are 0.62

00:22:14.700 different stances from where the church was before, because the same sex unions thing,

00:22:19.220 there was a Vatican document against same sex unions. Um, and he was talking about civil unions,

00:22:26.560 by the way, not, not the unions itself, but accepting it legally. There was a church stance

00:22:31.520 to, to be opposed to accepting of same sex civil unions. Uh, Pope Francis has taken a different

00:22:38.400 stance, at least in the film. It's not an official document of the church, obviously. You know,

00:22:42.420 he's worked very closely with a father, James Martin, but also with all of these LGBT groups

00:22:49.180 inside the church. So new ways ministries, for instance, um, you know, sister Janine Gramick,

00:22:57.360 who was actually disciplined under JP two and Benedict, but is now welcomed. So there's a very

00:23:04.200 changing stance. And most of those groups, to be fair to them,

00:23:07.660 are not at all opposed to homosexual marriage, let alone homosexual relationships.

00:23:15.000 Right.

00:23:15.840 And these are the Catholic groups. So a lot of people are saying,

00:23:20.220 guys, what do you mean you can't interpret this document? It's very clear what it means because

00:23:26.820 you have a hermeneutic of interpretation by the very things that the Pope has been doing. What's your

00:23:31.720 problem? How do you respond to that?

00:23:33.680 I think that is still a level of assumption. And I think we are to see what has happened

00:23:40.000 and take that in. My question is how much are we praying? How much are we praying? How much are we

00:23:47.800 interceding? How much are we right? Cause we, we know, we know what scripture says and praise God

00:23:53.680 church teaching right backs. That is that this is not a battle of flesh and blood. This is not

00:23:59.380 us versus Pope Francis us versus the LGBT us versus X, Y, or Z. This is a battle between spirit and 0.64

00:24:08.040 principality. And how much are we praying? I'm not saying we pray and don't say, right? Yes,

00:24:14.440 we speak up, but, but I pray that my heart posture towards Pope Francis towards James,

00:24:22.900 father James Martin is God's posture towards him and God desires repentance conversion,

00:24:30.560 right? For all of us. And so to me, I'm just sometimes a little concerned that our heart

00:24:38.380 posture might be a pinch off. Just get this person out, get them out. And trust me going through this

00:24:43.500 myself. I mean, this is for some people that are arguing about this and, and, and so caught up in

00:24:49.760 arms. They didn't walk through it even themselves. So just for a second, put yourself in my shoes.

00:24:56.600 I'm before this, before Pope Francis, anybody knew his name? I was in the midst of this. I was

00:25:04.160 feeling what that feels like. I lived almost a decade of experiencing what the church tried to

00:25:11.680 affirm something that God doesn't affirm what it felt like in my life. That causes great pain to my heart

00:25:18.200 for those within the LGBT community that are thinking, great. This is God's way. It is scary 1.00

00:25:25.260 to me when we think we have the right, or we're ever given the authority to change his way. We weren't.

00:25:33.600 And so I just, I wonder if our hearts grieve or if we're just so angry. And I pray, I pray that our

00:25:41.960 hearts are grieved because then we move from a place of righteous anger, not self-righteous anger,

00:25:48.020 but righteous anger and compassion. I'm scared for us as a church and myself, when I move into

00:25:55.500 something apart from compassion, just like the priest, I would pray for that priest. I would also

00:26:02.240 speak up, but I wanted my heart to be right. Not just so that I could go to heaven. No. So that that

00:26:08.800 man, because yes, he's a priest, but he's also a man and he's in desperate need of healing and

00:26:15.160 deliverance as well. And so I just pray that, that as these things come up and documents come forth and,

00:26:21.820 and we see, we feel like we see what's going on, that it would turn us to such fervent prayer.

00:26:28.800 I heard a pastor once say, have you wept for them before you talked to them or about them?

00:26:35.780 And I pray that we are a weeping church, that we weep for what we are seeing, what we feel brewing,

00:26:42.940 and that we rise up in such radical compassion and truth that man, things start to change in spirit

00:26:51.560 and in truth. And so that I, some people may say, well, you didn't answer the question.

00:26:57.520 I feel I did actually. Um, and, and we are a people that are meant to speak up. We really are,

00:27:04.020 but I pray it is from a deep rooted place of prayer and, and grasping God's heart for what's

00:27:12.200 going on inside his church and in the world. It's funny because the answer to this question

00:27:18.980 is the same as the answer to how you got out. Um, in fact, since I heard your talk at, uh,

00:27:28.140 the seat conference, the focus conference I've had in my head, literally since, since you gave the

00:27:33.580 talk, turn the song, you know, turn your eyes upon Jesus. Um, because it's, it's actually the answer

00:27:40.300 of how you got out and how to deal with the crisis in the church. If you wouldn't mind,

00:27:47.140 can you step us through getting out or at least that part of your conversion?

00:27:52.960 And the book does a pretty okay job of kind of showing those steps. And, and it wasn't,

00:28:00.740 it wasn't a clean one. I would love to say, my goodness, I just fell so in love with Jesus that

00:28:06.540 I fell so out of love with myself and women. Like I would love to say that, but it was messy. 0.99

00:28:12.140 It was messy. And to be honest, even at times now, it's still a little messy. It really is.

00:28:19.720 And, and some people may say, well, then I discredit everything you say. Okay. Okay. But

00:28:23.940 this is just true. It's true. And when we realize that it might be a little messy,

00:28:27.920 we can walk with others while it looks a little messy, right? Messy doesn't mean celebrating sin.

00:28:34.960 Right. And we need to be very clear. There's a big difference, but, but what it looked like for me to

00:28:39.700 just kind of summarize would be looking at Jesus and asking him for the grace to not take my eyes

00:28:46.680 off of them. And that I needed to experience who he was. I need to experience because see,

00:28:53.540 I was having a real hard time following his rules because I didn't know his heart. See, when,

00:29:00.140 when I know a rule and I know the heart behind it, the heart who produced it, that starts to

00:29:05.940 change things for me. So what, what this journey since October 17th, 2014 has been for me almost 10

00:29:12.420 years, 10 years, this October, what it's been for me is learning actually how good God is. See,

00:29:19.620 because when you learn how good he is, you start wanting his ways. I don't reject his ways now

00:29:25.740 because that I actually understand and experientially understand that he is good. So my prayer for

00:29:32.440 years and still is show me your goodness, God. Cause man, when we start to see his goodness,

00:29:38.840 we start to turn from what is not good. What does it look and reflect that goodness? That doesn't

00:29:44.960 mean you turn from, from all people, right? Oh, they don't look like God. So I'm not going to be

00:29:48.800 around him. No, no, no, no. I can actually start to see a reflection of God in them. Not in every way.

00:29:53.720 I don't have to love and celebrate everything about him. Right. That would only leave me being able to

00:30:00.120 love one person. And that's Jesus. I couldn't even love my parents. I couldn't love my friends. I

00:30:04.060 couldn't love my priest. I couldn't love both Francis because he's not perfect. Right. But,

00:30:09.260 but we need to be able to not celebrate and condone the imperfections in each other while still

00:30:15.320 celebrating the person. And, and really my journey out was really my journey in see, cause God doesn't

00:30:22.480 just call us out of darkness. So he calls us out of darkness to come into his marvelous light.

00:30:28.540 So it's really been a journey about coming in to Christ. And we never reached the finish line of

00:30:35.240 that. None of us, we'd never reached the finish line, not until the beatific vision where we are

00:30:40.380 face to face in the glory of God. Um, and that's something we long for and we look forward to, but

00:30:46.180 for me, it's, it's, it's actually been about a journey of growing in love and, and falling in love,

00:30:52.300 falling in love with the one who loved me first for while I was still a sinner. He died for me.

00:30:59.500 See, I, I was so working hard at trying to earn love, deserve love. And then if I could maybe,

00:31:07.280 maybe get my hands on it, white knuckle to keep it. Right. And that's just not the gospel. It's not

00:31:14.100 the gospel. And so as I've been kind of, and the way I sometimes describe my last 10 years is being

00:31:21.820 re-fathered. I'm being re-fathered by God. Holy spirit comes in and tends to my heart and, and

00:31:28.760 aligns me in the places of Kim. That doesn't look, does that look like Jesus? Right. Cause Jesus came

00:31:34.060 to reveal the father. Does that look like Jesus Kim? No, but, but not just in homosexuality or 0.98

00:31:41.060 sexuality, in my attitude, in greediness. When I, when I want to hold so tight onto something,

00:31:47.120 not trusting that God is good, you know, I have to hold it for myself. I have to self-protect my

00:31:52.660 heart. These are the ways I'm not trusting his goodness. It's, it's just like in, in the garden.

00:31:57.740 Right. And so for me, it's been a journey about not just coming out, but actually coming into a radical,

00:32:05.100 real, tangible relationship with Jesus. So I have a question for you. I think from your

00:32:10.600 vantage point, this might be very interesting. We had debates on same-sex marriage, um, in the

00:32:17.620 United States took a lot longer than in Canada. We actually passed same-sex marriage in 2005,

00:32:21.980 but going into that, we at LifeSite have been reporting on that for years already and warning

00:32:30.320 because I actually used to be on a lot of the different lists of the LGBT activists in the country.

00:32:35.060 And it was funny because when the legislation was being considered, the LGBT members weren't actually

00:32:42.880 into it because it was like, marriage, what the heck do we want that for? It's monogamy. And, uh, 0.94

00:32:47.220 that's not us. Hello. Um, and it was funny because the, the leaders among the activists were talking

00:32:52.900 about, no, we need that. Basically they were saying it was for societal acceptance. So there was an

00:32:59.700 interesting thing. The, the bishops of the country had done a outreach or at least in our province,

00:33:05.780 did an outreach to some of the Catholic leaders or media leaders. And we were consulted on how one

00:33:13.040 might, you know, put up a public defense of traditional marriage rather than going down the 0.79

00:33:19.180 road of homosexual marriage. And it was funny because from what we had learned from the inside, 0.76

00:33:26.120 from activists, but also from dealing with, uh, the issue of homosexuality, very upfront,

00:33:32.420 because just like we deal with promiscuity and just like we deal with pornography and just like

00:33:36.760 we deal with all sorts of other sexual sins, very upfront and, you know, honestly, and, and pretty

00:33:42.140 bluntly, I would say, um, in the, in that way, we're like you, we said, look, basically this has

00:33:48.240 nothing to do with marriage. If you want to do something about marriage, you should have talked

00:33:51.560 about that when they were discussing divorce back in the sixties. This has all to do with

00:33:57.280 homosexuality. If you want to show them, because the big question for everybody in, in the public

00:34:05.300 anyway, was love is love. I thought you said your God is love. Why are you against love? So we were

00:34:13.340 trying to say to them, and this is to the bishops. I think the only way you can answer that is with love

00:34:18.440 to the LGBT person. You're like, look, I love you enough to tell you that this stuff is harmful for 1.00

00:34:26.120 you. It harms your body, it harms your mind, it harms your soul. The last thing we want to do is

00:34:30.160 see you without God in the end. So we're going to say this, even though in Canada it could get you

00:34:35.520 arrested, um, you're saying this behavior harms you and we love you enough to tell you that their

00:34:41.860 approach was absolutely not. We're going to talk about only the wonderfulness of heterosexual marriage.

00:34:50.340 And the only response was, that's great. We want it too. Thanks very much. And it passed in 2005

00:34:55.240 without a blip. There are still countries that have not yet gone down that road that are starting to

00:35:01.460 have these debates in their parliament. The church is largely sometimes silent and sometimes unwilling

00:35:09.980 to take the issue head on. What's the best approach in your opinion? Well, I think it's the question.

00:35:14.120 Do we want a nation, a country under God or under us? And ultimately, if we want it under us, make

00:35:22.900 your own rules, make your own rules. We want God out of school. Look what starts happening. We want 0.60

00:35:27.520 God out of this. You know, God's a tyrant. God is this, God is that. Well, if that's how you see him, 0.86

00:35:32.040 you're going to want him out of everything. Right? So to me, we need a refreshing. We need Holy Spirit

00:35:36.960 to come afresh and teach us who God is again, because I think we forgot. I think we've been

00:35:42.160 so fathered by the father of lies that we actually don't even believe God's good anymore.

00:35:49.160 And so, of course, we wouldn't want him anywhere near our schools, our politics, our government,

00:35:54.740 everything, you know? And so to me, it sits with a question, well, who is God to you? And do you want

00:36:01.080 him to be God? Or do you want to be God? And I think what we're saying is, in many cases,

00:36:08.020 we want to be God because we forgot. Or maybe we never even knew how good he is. Because I think

00:36:12.880 if we knew how good God was, we'd want him to be Lord, not only over our own lives, but over our

00:36:18.760 culture, our nation, our education system, over everything. And so Satan's really done a great work.

00:36:24.540 Um, not, I'm not celebrating it, but he's done a great work to really ruin the nature and character

00:36:32.380 of God. And so to me, you know, and that, that always hurt me when I, when I heard, even when I

00:36:37.660 was in the lifestyle, I always had a problem with love is love. I said, if, if somebody asked me,

00:36:42.760 what is red? And I said, red is red. They would look at me and say, I asked you, what is red?

00:36:48.820 Don't, don't use a circuit. Red is not red. I'm asking what is red. And so love is love to me

00:36:55.920 really hurts. Um, a person because love is supposed to point back to someone. See, when,

00:37:03.040 when the scripture says, God is love, doesn't say love is love. It says, God is love. That means when

00:37:08.640 somebody's seeking love, they know who to go back to, right? Because it's not just this self-answering

00:37:15.840 thing. No, it actually points to someone and to something. If I had a bumper sticker that said,

00:37:21.980 cat is cat. And we were at all logical. We would pull over and say, I'm sorry, that is really

00:37:28.420 illogical, right? What do you mean by that? Because the definition is not its own word. And so in that,

00:37:36.600 it breaks my heart when I hear love is love. I'm like, no, see, I'm holding back. If I tell someone

00:37:42.800 love is love, I'm holding back from them who love is and what love looks like, because it looks like

00:37:48.600 something. It looks like a man hanging on a cross that while we didn't deserve it, he gave his life

00:37:58.020 for us. That's what love looks like. Love looks like shed blood. And we don't trust that man anymore.

00:38:05.140 I don't think we trust him because if we did, we'd want him to be every bit Lord over every bit of our

00:38:12.260 life. And so to me, we need an awakening. We need an awakening of who God is again,

00:38:19.640 who he really is. And an experiential one. Cause man, I'm not with women, not because I'm afraid

00:38:26.580 of hell. Hell is real. And anybody who says it isn't, I'm genuinely concerned that they might 0.68

00:38:31.500 experience it. But my, my thing is this, this is real. This is very real. I'm not dating women 0.99

00:38:39.560 because I found a greater love. See, I think sometimes we try to take stuff from people

00:38:47.340 without offering something better, right? Uh, this person shouldn't be in that lifestyle. It's not

00:38:53.320 good for you. It's bad for you. What are you offering them? Who are you offering them? Are you,

00:38:58.620 you come out of the LGBT community? What community are they going to go into? Where are they going to go? 1.00

00:39:04.300 They know that the LGBT community is so accepting. So come as you are, stay as you are. You're fine.

00:39:10.980 You do you. They come into the church door. Hey, you need to change. Hey, you don't look good enough.

00:39:16.960 Hey, you you're doing all this wrong. Yes, there's truth. And we want to stay to that, but, but are we

00:39:21.000 welcoming? See the difference with church versus LGBT community, LGBT come as you are, stay as you are. 0.99

00:39:27.980 Ours is come as you are and meet the love of your life and let him transform you into something you

00:39:34.640 could never imagine into life and life abundantly. See, that's an offer of a transforming love.

00:39:43.520 That's different. Come as you are. Absolutely. But man, will you let him transform you and me?

00:39:51.480 See, not just you. So often we're pointing the finger and people feel all alone. Like they're the

00:39:57.400 only ones. They're the leper of the time. They're not. They're one of all of us sinners that all need 0.95

00:40:03.220 a savior. Very interesting question, because I'm sure you're good. You would get this from a lot of,

00:40:09.000 especially young people, especially those who might feel same sex attracted or whatnot.

00:40:13.500 So, but you're single now. You're alone. Aren't you lonely?

00:40:18.260 I've been in a room with thousands of people in my, in my, in my life, thousands of people and

00:40:25.780 thousands of people could know my name. And do you know, you can feel alone. You could be around

00:40:30.500 people. You can be in a relationship and feel alone. See, I don't, I'm single. Correct. I don't

00:40:35.820 have a significant other. I don't have a quote unquote partner in life, but I have Jesus and he is

00:40:44.460 enough. Otherwise I wouldn't be single. Why would I do this? I'm not, I'm not afraid. I'm not in a

00:40:51.280 place where, Oh my gosh, I just can't do this. I can't. I'm going to get in trouble. No, no, no,

00:40:55.300 no, no, no. First John 4, 18 for perfect love casts out fear. And the man who still fears is not

00:41:02.140 yet perfected in love for fear has, has to do with punishment. I lived in that fear for a long time.

00:41:08.520 I am not in that place by the grace of God. I have started to encounter true love.

00:41:14.460 True love is what has held me. I don't feel alone. If I'm in a room of 10,000 or I'm in a room by

00:41:20.720 myself, I don't not only feel alone. I know that I'm not alone. And guess what? The reality is we

00:41:28.180 were created. Jesus talks about, right? He talks about when they're asking him in the scriptures,

00:41:33.020 well, if this person marries 10 people and then they die and this person dies and who is the wife 1.00

00:41:37.820 in heaven. And Jesus says, there is no husband or wife in heaven. Do we hear that? He's saying,

00:41:44.420 for all of eternity, the person that you have yoked yourself to, which it's a beautiful thing.

00:41:49.980 Marriage is beautiful. It's of the Lord, but it's not for eternity. There is one relationship for all

00:41:57.220 of eternity, one marriage for all of eternity. And it is the bridegroom King, Jesus Christ himself

00:42:03.180 coming for his bride, you and me. That is the marriage of the lamb. That is the marriage supper

00:42:09.140 that I get to experience him now. And for all of eternity. I don't know a person on earth that while

00:42:19.260 I was ridiculing them and hating them, they gave their life for me. I've never found a person that

00:42:26.680 said, I love you so much when you don't love me, when you hate me, when you threw stones at me,

00:42:30.980 that I said, I love her so much. I'm going to die for her.

00:42:33.680 That's the love. That's the love our souls were created for. I am not alone. I am not alone. And

00:42:39.840 neither are you, but are you is your soul awakened to that lover of your soul that you will be with

00:42:48.160 for either all of eternity or be apart from for all of eternity. I want everyone, myself included

00:42:55.560 to experience that lover, that lover of my soul, that lover of your soul now and for all of eternity.

00:43:03.220 I am not miserable. I am not. You can ask my community. You could follow me around for a year.

00:43:09.560 Do I struggle? Yes. So do married people. So do people within the LGBT community. So do priests.

00:43:15.220 So do nuns. Find me a person that doesn't struggle. Find me a person that doesn't have bad days.

00:43:21.900 See, Jesus didn't promise. We're not going to have bad days. What he says is I'm with you in them.

00:43:26.320 I'm with you through it all victories, failures, successes. I will be with you. I will not abandon you.

00:43:33.220 That's the love that our hearts were built for. That's the love that I want to experience more.

00:43:38.220 And I want others to experience more. And I don't want to lie to people that they can find it in

00:43:43.020 another person. We can find love and yes, true love in another person, but it was meant to be a

00:43:49.020 reflection of our first love, the lover of our souls. Every relationship we have is supposed to mirror

00:43:56.080 and be like, wow, that reminds me of how much he loves me because your husband, your boyfriend,

00:44:01.600 your wife, your girlfriend will eventually pass away. Where are you now? Where are you now?

00:44:08.660 Where is the love going to come from? And so I pray we get this right, that we return to our first

00:44:14.140 love. Jesus talks about it in the book of Revelation. When he's talking to the church,

00:44:18.720 he says, one thing I hold against you is that you've lost your first love. You're doing well

00:44:23.900 with holding on to truth. You're doing well with this. You're doing well with that, but you've lost

00:44:27.880 your first love. I think he's asking us right now as a church, have we lost our first love?

00:44:35.080 And that's something that goes inside and outside of the church. I believe it's a question to the

00:44:41.920 nations, to each one of us, will we return to our first love, which is Jesus, the full revelation of

00:44:48.620 God the Father. The young person who's gone with you so far says, okay, now I'm interested. She's not

00:44:54.520 lonely. That's freakish because that's what I am as a young person. How? So if I like call out to him,

00:45:04.940 he's going to answer me, how? Well, be real. Don't pray someone else's prayer. Amen to those.

00:45:10.140 I love the prayers of the saints. I love them. And sometimes I pray them and I pray the rosary. I

00:45:15.440 love it. But relationship is personal. What is the cry of your heart? See, here's the thing. I didn't

00:45:24.200 say, God, I want a relationship. Show me the person I'm supposed to be with. I didn't tell him how to be

00:45:29.060 God. I said, can you show me you're better at being God? I didn't tell him how to show me that.

00:45:34.320 I just said, I give you permission to show me that you're good at being God. See, sometimes when we

00:45:40.240 pray, we're asking him to do what we want, which is still us being God. Will you cry out to him

00:45:47.160 and surrender? It's a surrender to love. It is a surrender to love. God, will you show me that I

00:45:53.920 am lovable? I don't look lovable. I don't act lovable. I don't feel lovable. Will you please,

00:46:00.100 Jesus, show me what you meant when you died on that cross that you died for me? Because I am a

00:46:06.260 sinner. I don't deserve it. You show me that I am beloved. Can you show me that I'm lovable? Man,

00:46:11.920 when our prayers start to look more like you show me, God, who you are, we're going to start learning

00:46:17.940 who we are. You cannot, and I cannot know myself apart from God. It says that we are made in his

00:46:24.180 likeness and his image. So if we don't know his likeness and his image, we don't know our likeness

00:46:29.740 and our image. I think our prayers, your prayers, if you're saying, I do, I want this. I want this,

00:46:36.280 Kim. I want this God, not I want this Kim, but I want this God. Then start talking to him. But

00:46:40.900 my question is, will you let him be God? Don't tell him, okay, if you get me this job, God, or if this

00:46:49.200 girl asks me out, or if I go and do this or whatever. No, no, no, no, no, no. Will you just

00:46:54.780 wipe it and say, God, I'm done being God. Will you show me that you're good at being God? He will show

00:47:03.100 you. He has been faithful for the last 10 years, and I know he will be faithful until I take my last

00:47:08.860 breath because that's who he is. Absolutely beautiful. Kim, if the many people who watch this

00:47:14.860 want to get more from you, want to get your book, how can they do that?

00:47:20.120 Restless Heart, My Struggle with Life and Sexuality. It's not just about sexuality, y'all. It's life.

00:47:26.400 You can get that. Sophia Institute is the publisher, so you can go right to their website. It's on Amazon

00:47:30.860 as well. And to Barnes & Noble, Target, I think that the world thinks that it's a pro-LGBT, but it's 0.87

00:47:37.540 really a pro-God. So it's found almost anywhere. And then I have a ministry and outreach for those

00:47:44.400 within the community or whatever it be, just people that are struggling. And that's

00:47:49.260 Overcome, M-I-N.com, M-I-N, short for ministries.

00:47:54.760 Kim Zember, thank you for all that you do on behalf of, I think on behalf of young people everywhere,

00:48:01.380 but probably people of every age everywhere. But having had eight children who are now all,

00:48:07.000 well, mostly in their 20s, your message resounds. And thank you for what you do. Thank you for being so

00:48:14.140 candid, so real.

00:48:17.460 Amen. Thank you.

00:48:19.000 And God bless all of you. And we'll see you next time.

00:48:21.560 Hi, everyone. This is John Henry Weston. We hope you enjoyed this program. To see more like it,

00:48:36.580 be sure to hit the subscribe button below to get all the latest content from LifeSite News. Check

00:48:41.500 the links in the description to read more and connect with us on social media so that you can

00:48:45.600 stay up to date with all the latest life, family, faith, and freedom news. Thanks for watching,

00:48:50.240 and may God bless you.

The John-Henry Westen Show - February 09, 2024

Former Lesbian： A Priest's Attempt to Whitewash Sin of Homosexuality Harmed Me

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