Former Lesbian： A Priest's Attempt to Whitewash Sin of Homosexuality Harmed Me
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Words per Minute
177.48682
Summary
Kim Zember was raised a Catholic, and she fell into a homosexual lifestyle for a decade before she was rescued by Christ. But on her journey into the homosexual lifestyle, she met a priest who was all about ignoring the sin of homosexuality in an effort to be welcoming and accepting.
Transcript
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I would love to say, my goodness, I just fell so in love with Jesus that I fell so out of love
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with myself and women. Like, I would love to say that, but it was messy. Messy doesn't mean
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celebrating sin, right? And we need to be very clear. There's a big difference. But
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I was having a real hard time following his rules because I didn't know his heart.
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The approach of Fr. James Martin and Pope Francis to homosexuality seems to be that of acceptance
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of the lifestyle, rather than a welcoming stance which calls on same-sex attracted Catholics
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who are engaged in homosexuality to abandon the sinful lifestyle and live in the freedom
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of Christ. That is why Fr. James Martin has supported same-sex relationships and the Pope
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has permitted the blessings of same-sex couples. That's why some priests have their parishes
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participate in gay pride parades and some other priests wear rainbow stoles. That's why trans
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couples are welcomed by the Pope and called married. That's why the Pope has backed same-sex
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civil union legislation. And that's why Pope Francis has met with and encouraged many of
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the LGBT-pushing groups in the Church, actually the same groups, condemned by Popes John Paul
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II and Benedict. That's why Pope Francis has elevated to the level of cardinal many of the
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bishops who backed the blessings of homosexual unions, not just couples, as if there's a difference.
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But it's true. Christ welcomed sinners. And he did welcome them, but he also admonished them to
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sin no more, as we've heard in the Scriptures. Now, what does the welcoming of sinners without the
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admonition to sin no more do? Does it help or harm Catholics with same-sex attraction? After all,
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same-sex attracted Catholics are the supposed recipients of all of the new policies being
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promoted by the LGBT Catholic groups, Pope Francis and Father James Martin. So when a priest glosses
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over in confession homosexual sexual activities, even those as innocent as a kiss, is it helping
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same-sex attracted Catholics? Kim Zember was raised a Catholic, and she fell into a homosexual lifestyle
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for a decade before she was rescued by Christ. But on her journey into the homosexual lifestyle, she met a
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priest who did what we're talking about, who was all about ignoring the sin of homosexuality in an effort to be
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welcoming and accepting. Stay tuned to find out exactly how that worked out on this episode of the John
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Let's begin as you always do with the sign of the cross. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.
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Kim, I'm so happy to be on with you. Right off the bat, I wanted to thank you, just because of the work that you're
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doing is able to affect so many, especially young people, people of all ages for sure, but young people in
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particular who are so confused. If you wouldn't mind starting off with just a brief history. I know that's hard.
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But if you can give us a brief sort of history on your life and coming to your amazing work, that would be awesome.
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Absolutely. Yeah. Grew up Catholic. Grew up knowing a lot about God. But being honest,
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I wouldn't say I knew him in heart. I knew from a young age that I was a little bit different than
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the rest of the girls in many ways, not just in regards to sexual attraction, but kind of just in
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general. And I never really saw a problem with that. I thought it was more them than me. I guess
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that's probably a little revelation of pride at a young age, too. But in that, I remember always being
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drawn to the little girls more than the little boys. I liked playing with the guys. But I just I
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wanted to be close with the girls. And, you know, since I was young, it wasn't sexualized in any way.
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I just thought it was kind of normal. And I really started to see, wait a minute, maybe this isn't as
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normal when I got into junior high, and then into high school. And I was like, okay, I actually really
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don't have the attractions, or I don't feel them, at least that a lot of my friends do for the guys,
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I still saw them as brothers, as friends, you know, I didn't know if that had to do because I
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had two older brothers growing up and started to kind of look at, okay, wait, did something happen
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to me? Was I sexually abused, you know, and just starting to see that these attractions were more
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going under the umbrella of homosexuality. And like I said, that that more happened, I would say in high
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school, not acting on them, just realizing they maybe are there, and then maybe actually have been
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there. And, you know, like I said, growing up Catholic, it was like, okay, wait a minute, this
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is not God's way. And, you know, we can know something's not God's way, we can actually know
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it to be true. Doesn't mean you still don't feel it, desire it, want it, right. And so, you know,
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I was trying to figure it out, honestly, on my own, I didn't, I didn't go to people because I thought
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okay, if I open up with this, I'm going to either be put in a little box by kind of the church at
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large of like, oh my gosh, she's homosexual. And that's wrong. It's a sin. And I knew that,
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but I didn't know how I'd kind of be taken in or perceived. And I didn't open up to my family
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because it was scary. I'm like, I just won't act on it. And I don't even have to talk about it.
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There was already shame. I will say this. There was already shame before I even acted on it. I did
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not want this to come out. And so I fought it. It wasn't until my senior year that I decided,
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you know what, kind of took an inventory around me. And I would say that I was at that season in
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my life, seeing God more as a cop. And so I don't know about you guys, but for me, so long as I drive
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slower than everybody else, I'm probably not going to get a ticket. And so I took an inventory around
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me in high school, my senior year. And I'm like, okay, one of my best friends is pregnant. People
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are drunk, getting high, all this stuff. I'm like, I think I'll be under the radar. If I just kiss my
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friend, that's a female, what's the big deal. Right. And clearly even hearing that again is like,
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that is not the voice of God, but it was the voice I heard. And it was the voice I actually wanted
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to hear. Um, whether it was my own or whatnot, I just know it wasn't the Lord. And so I acted on it
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and I will say that moment changed everything for me, everything. You can know that you have a desire
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or, or, um, a longing, but when you fulfill it or try to fulfill it, something changes. Um, especially
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if you enjoyed it and I enjoyed it. I felt safe as, as maybe strange as that sound. I knew that I was in
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sin. I knew what I was doing was sin, but there was a safety that I felt with women that I didn't
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feel with men. And so for me, you know, my other option, okay. The way I was seeing it again,
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walking through this on my own was I'm either going to be single all my life. I'm going to be
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uncomfortable with men or I'm going to be in sin and, and at least have someone. Right. And so for me,
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that was the route I chose, but I hit it because I knew it was wrong. And as you said, I mean,
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there's a book out there that goes through all the details, but I, I lived a double life. I
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was seeking truth. Um, I went to a Catholic counselor. I went to a Catholic priest. I went
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to a Protestant pastor. I mean, I was seeking and, and I kept receiving. I will, I again, paraphrasing,
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but overall was really the messaging that I felt I received was you be you. God didn't make
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mistakes on you. He loves you. God loves you. I'd hear that all the time. God loves you. I'm like,
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okay, I'm actually not questioning if God loves me though. I might, I should probably look at that.
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My real thing is what do I do? What do I do? How do I live in his ways? I know he loves me.
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Aren't I called to love him back? And shouldn't I like deny myself, like at least deny this,
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not deny that it's real, but not act on it. And then what do I do now? I'm just a 19 year old
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single person that doesn't want to be a nun. So where does that leave me? You know? And, um,
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so it was really heartbreaking and, and, you know, the Catholic counselor, even at some point and the
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priest tried to tell me that I just didn't, cause I'm like, but it's in scripture. Like,
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why is it in scripture? If you're saying God created me this way, why did he create me against
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his own way? Like it actually created more confusion for me. And then I began to question
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the scripture itself and then the Catholic teachings. And I'm like, wait, if this is an
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issue, like if this, if you're telling me that, that we've misinterpreted this, then what else,
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what else is misinterpreted? Just homosexuality. The one thing that I'm struggling with most,
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I was like, that sounds a little too convenient. And, but I wanted to hear it. I wanted to hear
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that because it, now I could do what I wanted to do. And God loves me and kumbaya, you know,
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everybody we're good. And I'm telling you, it was, it was not that at all. It actually people
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withholding the truth from me, I don't blame them, but I did go seeking counsel and them
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withholding what is true actually helped create more problems in my life. Um, even though I knew
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what they were saying wasn't true, I wanted to believe them. And I lived that out. Um, a lot
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happened. I will spare the details, but I was a train wreck. I was an absolute train wreck and it
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wasn't till October 17th, 2014 that I was absolutely woken up inside of me and said, you know what?
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I'm horrible at playing God. I don't think he created me to be God over my own life. And so I
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just threw my hands up and I said, Jesus, I'm done. I'm not going to take my own life. I'm not to that
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point. I'm close. I was depressed. I was, I was, I was just miserable. I was out and open living as
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quote unquote, God created me. But I knew inside that that's not what he created for me to be doing
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and the way I was supposed to be living. And so I was a mess and I just gave it to Jesus. I said,
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I don't just give you sexuality. I want you to be Lord over my whole life, but you need to show me
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that you're good at being God because I've, I've, I've figured out I'm not, you need to show me
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you're better. And if you are, you've got my whole life. And I'm telling you every single moment
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since that day, I had a radical encounter with Jesus, um, that evening. And I'm telling you every
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single moment since then he has shown and proven himself though. He wouldn't even have to, he is so
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incredible is not even the right word, but to show himself faithful, true, good at being God good at
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being Lord over my life. He's been tender and kind and patient when I haven't been, uh, see October 17th,
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2014. I didn't just completely change. God revealed himself to me. And that's what I asked him to do was
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reveal himself to me. Show me that he's good. I've heard it. I needed to experience it. And every day
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since then he has, and I'm learning that his character, his nature is actually not dependent
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on mine when I fail and fall. And I am, as some might say, you know, returning to my own throw up,
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he shows himself faithful. I mean, I have never experienced a love like the love I'm experiencing
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with Jesus himself and revealing the father, God, the father to me. I am realizing it's actually the
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very love that I was seeking my entire life that I wouldn't even find in another male or another
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female, another human being at all. And so it has been a journey. It will continue to be a journey.
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I don't, I don't sit here today saying, and now I'm perfect, you know, at all. Um, I struggle. I've
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had, I've had falls. I've had times where I've jumped into pits, but I've never stopped crying out to him.
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And he's never stopped saving me. Um, I never want to abuse his grace. I never want to abuse
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his kindness and his gentleness and his tenderness. What I've actually seen is the more that I receive
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it, the more I can actually give all that he is back, back to him through me. And, um, I'm just,
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I am so thankful. I'm so thankful for who he is. And I'm so thankful that he's God. And I'm not.
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Indeed. How long did you actually live in that lifestyle or however you want to call it?
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Yeah, I would say almost a decade. So it was, it was a long time in sin.
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Here's an interesting thing. I mean, you raised a Catholic, which, which is, um, that, that brings
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a whole other element, but you've someone who really can say, been there, done that, have the
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t-shirt. So this is sort of the key demographic, if you will, that a lot of the members of the church
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are trying to reach out to, at least they say so. Now you've had that one experience, um, as you
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said, with a priest who didn't tell you the truth. If you go into that a little bit, what did he tell
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you? You know, again, it can't be verbatim. It was, uh, quite a long time ago, but that I am so loved
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by God and, and God is, well, I actually remember a time where I was talking with him. Um, and he said
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along the lines of so long as it's a monogamous relationship that is mutual love, God celebrates
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it. God is love, right? And he celebrates love. And I just remember in my spirit thinking, this is
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not true. I mean, parts of it are true. Don't get me wrong. I know God is love. I know that he loves
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love. I remember when he said this, I said, hold on father, and I will spare his name. God rest his
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soul actually. Um, and I do pray for his soul and I pray and I, I continued to always when he was
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living. But I remember saying, father, I'm going to be sexually active with this person. Like, I don't
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want to, I don't want to paint a picture like, Hey, you know, we're just going to be like sisters,
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you know, no, this, there will be sexual intimacy between us. So what, how is that? Okay. And like,
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is that something I shouldn't do? Kim love is mutual, you know, the whole thing. So I was like,
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my goodness. Cause I thought, you know, maybe I'm not painting the picture clear enough. You
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know, I want to be very, without getting too detailed, think that was clear enough. And still
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nothing of, you know, um, celibacy or call the singleness or meeting me where I'm at walking with
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me as a priest, someone who I pray was practicing the same thing and living that out, but same sex
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attraction or not. Right. We're talking about sexual intimacy before marriage, like female,
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female, male, female, like, no, no, not God's plan, not his way, not his heart.
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It is stunning because this happens on many levels. So you have the, the priests who give
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false counsel, which, um, you know, Lord forgive him. That's that, you know, our Lord said,
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you know, of them, it'd be better for you to have a millstone tied about your neck and thrown into
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the sea. So let's pray there was some turnaround and repentance there, but it is a grave temptation,
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especially today. I'm sure. Um, some priests, perhaps in some countries, Canada, like where I
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live, they wonder if forgiving true counseling, they might not be, uh, finding themselves in trouble
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with the law. Seriously. But there's another thing going on in the church today. And it's very,
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very widespread. Probably the greatest champion is Father James Martin. It's a different approach
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to, um, homosexuality. It's, it's, it falls along the lines of what the priest said to you,
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but it's a slow approach to get there. Um, one of the latest things that was manifested is the
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document from the congregation or now dicastria of the doctrine of faith titled Fiducia Supplica.
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It talks about the blessing of couples in irregular unions and same-sex couples.
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As someone who's sort of been there, done that, and lived a life as a Catholic
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and having come out to a great, amazing love of Christ, I'd love to hear your take
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on the blessing of same-sex couples. Anybody who is going to bless or celebrate something that Jesus
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Christ himself did not bless or celebrate is a grave concern to me. Not just for eternity,
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let's the largest thing we're all going to face at one point, but also for their life here.
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You know, um, to me, a person always, if, if someone comes and says, Father, will you,
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will you pray for me? Will you pray blessings over me? You know, I've never, I've, I've asked many
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times, priests at an airport or, you know, wherever. And they've never said, well, what are you sinless?
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Right. No, what I'm not saying is, Father, will you bless the sin in my life? Will you celebrate
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the sin in my life? Right. But, but a person always, always is worthy of a blessing because
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they're a creation of God. And, and, and if we don't hold onto that, we're missing it. And we
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might be a little bit of the older brother in the parable, right. Of the prodigal son.
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And so to me, and, and I don't, I think my, my struggle with the document is a lack of clarity,
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right? We're in a time of confusion and we know that the author of confusion is not Jesus. It's
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not God. It's not Holy spirit. The author of confusion is the devil. Right. And so for me,
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when, when I think that there, when I, when I sense just as, you know, when I read something,
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I want to understand what I'm reading, I don't want loopholes because I'm, I'm seeking truth.
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And so my biggest issue with the document is I, I see beauty in it because they're saying
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everybody deserves a blessing. And when I personally read it, I don't see it blessing the union,
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the, the irregular union, a same section. I didn't read it as that personally when I read it,
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but I know many who have read it and they see it that way. So I'm like, okay,
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so my kind of issue overall is, can we get some clarity? Can we get some clarity? Are we blessing
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the union or are we blessing the person? Right. And, and, you know, I don't have a theological
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background. I don't have a theology degree, and I don't know that I should need one to be able to read
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the teachings of, of our church. The fact that there's some priests and some leaders saying,
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oh, praise God. Now we can start blessing you, you know, homosexual unions. I'm like,
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I didn't read that at all. Um, and then we have some priests that say, oh, thank God, you know,
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we can administer blessing to people. I'm like, okay, that I read. So some of my concern is that
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we're reading this document through a foggy lens. We're reading it through the lens in which we want
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to see it. And that is concerning to me when a document comes out that it can lead one way or
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another. My biggest issue, I personally, when I read it, do not feel that that document says,
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and now the Catholic church blesses same-sex unions. How I read it, um, as Kim Zember was
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blessings are to never be withheld from anyone, no matter what they're struggling with. But I didn't
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see it as a blessing of the union. I would have grave concern, grave concern. Now, could it,
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could this document possibly lead to that? Well, I don't want to be presumptuous. I want to be aware,
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but I don't want to say that that is what it's doing. I think we need to be in it. We're in a
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time where we need to look at words. We need to look at what's in front of us and we need to not
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jump to conclusions because we might start making assumptions about leadership and about things.
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We can have those, but I pray those assumptions are we, we give those to the Lord and we pray for our
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church in this time. Um, before we say, see, I told you, look, what's going to happen. And
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because that that's a scary place to be too. We do want to be aware and we need to be prayerful.
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We need to be fasting. We need to be asking questions. Um, but I just think we need to be
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very careful with preconceived notions, check our own lens, Lord cleanse my eyes, my heart,
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my mind. Let me read this document as it is not as I want it to be, or think it is, or,
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or assume it to be. So one of the issues that I think a lot of the people who, well, mostly
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the people in the world who aren't necessarily in the church, they're just watching what's been
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happening. They're seeing Pope Francis as being the most open Pope in the world's history on for
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homosexuality. He was on the cover of many, many gay magazines right from the start with his who am
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out of judge comments. And they were taken out of context, by the way. Um, he was talking about a
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priest who was involved in whatever, but where it did start to become more clear was in 2015,
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he welcomed a transgender couple to the Vatican. He called them married and happy later on in the
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film that he did. He talked about same sex unions and being in support of that. Um, and those are
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different stances from where the church was before, because the same sex unions thing,
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there was a Vatican document against same sex unions. Um, and he was talking about civil unions,
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by the way, not, not the unions itself, but accepting it legally. There was a church stance
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to, to be opposed to accepting of same sex civil unions. Uh, Pope Francis has taken a different
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stance, at least in the film. It's not an official document of the church, obviously. You know,
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he's worked very closely with a father, James Martin, but also with all of these LGBT groups
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inside the church. So new ways ministries, for instance, um, you know, sister Janine Gramick,
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who was actually disciplined under JP two and Benedict, but is now welcomed. So there's a very
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changing stance. And most of those groups, to be fair to them,
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are not at all opposed to homosexual marriage, let alone homosexual relationships.
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And these are the Catholic groups. So a lot of people are saying,
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guys, what do you mean you can't interpret this document? It's very clear what it means because
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you have a hermeneutic of interpretation by the very things that the Pope has been doing. What's your
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I think that is still a level of assumption. And I think we are to see what has happened
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and take that in. My question is how much are we praying? How much are we praying? How much are we
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interceding? How much are we right? Cause we, we know, we know what scripture says and praise God
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church teaching right backs. That is that this is not a battle of flesh and blood. This is not
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us versus Pope Francis us versus the LGBT us versus X, Y, or Z. This is a battle between spirit and
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principality. And how much are we praying? I'm not saying we pray and don't say, right? Yes,
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we speak up, but, but I pray that my heart posture towards Pope Francis towards James,
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father James Martin is God's posture towards him and God desires repentance conversion,
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right? For all of us. And so to me, I'm just sometimes a little concerned that our heart
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posture might be a pinch off. Just get this person out, get them out. And trust me going through this
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myself. I mean, this is for some people that are arguing about this and, and, and so caught up in
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arms. They didn't walk through it even themselves. So just for a second, put yourself in my shoes.
00:24:56.600
I'm before this, before Pope Francis, anybody knew his name? I was in the midst of this. I was
00:25:04.160
feeling what that feels like. I lived almost a decade of experiencing what the church tried to
00:25:11.680
affirm something that God doesn't affirm what it felt like in my life. That causes great pain to my heart
00:25:18.200
for those within the LGBT community that are thinking, great. This is God's way. It is scary
00:25:25.260
to me when we think we have the right, or we're ever given the authority to change his way. We weren't.
00:25:33.600
And so I just, I wonder if our hearts grieve or if we're just so angry. And I pray, I pray that our
00:25:41.960
hearts are grieved because then we move from a place of righteous anger, not self-righteous anger,
00:25:48.020
but righteous anger and compassion. I'm scared for us as a church and myself, when I move into
00:25:55.500
something apart from compassion, just like the priest, I would pray for that priest. I would also
00:26:02.240
speak up, but I wanted my heart to be right. Not just so that I could go to heaven. No. So that that
00:26:08.800
man, because yes, he's a priest, but he's also a man and he's in desperate need of healing and
00:26:15.160
deliverance as well. And so I just pray that, that as these things come up and documents come forth and,
00:26:21.820
and we see, we feel like we see what's going on, that it would turn us to such fervent prayer.
00:26:28.800
I heard a pastor once say, have you wept for them before you talked to them or about them?
00:26:35.780
And I pray that we are a weeping church, that we weep for what we are seeing, what we feel brewing,
00:26:42.940
and that we rise up in such radical compassion and truth that man, things start to change in spirit
00:26:51.560
and in truth. And so that I, some people may say, well, you didn't answer the question.
00:26:57.520
I feel I did actually. Um, and, and we are a people that are meant to speak up. We really are,
00:27:04.020
but I pray it is from a deep rooted place of prayer and, and grasping God's heart for what's
00:27:12.200
going on inside his church and in the world. It's funny because the answer to this question
00:27:18.980
is the same as the answer to how you got out. Um, in fact, since I heard your talk at, uh,
00:27:28.140
the seat conference, the focus conference I've had in my head, literally since, since you gave the
00:27:33.580
talk, turn the song, you know, turn your eyes upon Jesus. Um, because it's, it's actually the answer
00:27:40.300
of how you got out and how to deal with the crisis in the church. If you wouldn't mind,
00:27:47.140
can you step us through getting out or at least that part of your conversion?
00:27:52.960
And the book does a pretty okay job of kind of showing those steps. And, and it wasn't,
00:28:00.740
it wasn't a clean one. I would love to say, my goodness, I just fell so in love with Jesus that
00:28:06.540
I fell so out of love with myself and women. Like I would love to say that, but it was messy.
00:28:12.140
It was messy. And to be honest, even at times now, it's still a little messy. It really is.
00:28:19.720
And, and some people may say, well, then I discredit everything you say. Okay. Okay. But
00:28:23.940
this is just true. It's true. And when we realize that it might be a little messy,
00:28:27.920
we can walk with others while it looks a little messy, right? Messy doesn't mean celebrating sin.
00:28:34.960
Right. And we need to be very clear. There's a big difference, but, but what it looked like for me to
00:28:39.700
just kind of summarize would be looking at Jesus and asking him for the grace to not take my eyes
00:28:46.680
off of them. And that I needed to experience who he was. I need to experience because see,
00:28:53.540
I was having a real hard time following his rules because I didn't know his heart. See, when,
00:29:00.140
when I know a rule and I know the heart behind it, the heart who produced it, that starts to
00:29:05.940
change things for me. So what, what this journey since October 17th, 2014 has been for me almost 10
00:29:12.420
years, 10 years, this October, what it's been for me is learning actually how good God is. See,
00:29:19.620
because when you learn how good he is, you start wanting his ways. I don't reject his ways now
00:29:25.740
because that I actually understand and experientially understand that he is good. So my prayer for
00:29:32.440
years and still is show me your goodness, God. Cause man, when we start to see his goodness,
00:29:38.840
we start to turn from what is not good. What does it look and reflect that goodness? That doesn't
00:29:44.960
mean you turn from, from all people, right? Oh, they don't look like God. So I'm not going to be
00:29:48.800
around him. No, no, no, no. I can actually start to see a reflection of God in them. Not in every way.
00:29:53.720
I don't have to love and celebrate everything about him. Right. That would only leave me being able to
00:30:00.120
love one person. And that's Jesus. I couldn't even love my parents. I couldn't love my friends. I
00:30:04.060
couldn't love my priest. I couldn't love both Francis because he's not perfect. Right. But,
00:30:09.260
but we need to be able to not celebrate and condone the imperfections in each other while still
00:30:15.320
celebrating the person. And, and really my journey out was really my journey in see, cause God doesn't
00:30:22.480
just call us out of darkness. So he calls us out of darkness to come into his marvelous light.
00:30:28.540
So it's really been a journey about coming in to Christ. And we never reached the finish line of
00:30:35.240
that. None of us, we'd never reached the finish line, not until the beatific vision where we are
00:30:40.380
face to face in the glory of God. Um, and that's something we long for and we look forward to, but
00:30:46.180
for me, it's, it's, it's actually been about a journey of growing in love and, and falling in love,
00:30:52.300
falling in love with the one who loved me first for while I was still a sinner. He died for me.
00:30:59.500
See, I, I was so working hard at trying to earn love, deserve love. And then if I could maybe,
00:31:07.280
maybe get my hands on it, white knuckle to keep it. Right. And that's just not the gospel. It's not
00:31:14.100
the gospel. And so as I've been kind of, and the way I sometimes describe my last 10 years is being
00:31:21.820
re-fathered. I'm being re-fathered by God. Holy spirit comes in and tends to my heart and, and
00:31:28.760
aligns me in the places of Kim. That doesn't look, does that look like Jesus? Right. Cause Jesus came
00:31:34.060
to reveal the father. Does that look like Jesus Kim? No, but, but not just in homosexuality or
00:31:41.060
sexuality, in my attitude, in greediness. When I, when I want to hold so tight onto something,
00:31:47.120
not trusting that God is good, you know, I have to hold it for myself. I have to self-protect my
00:31:52.660
heart. These are the ways I'm not trusting his goodness. It's, it's just like in, in the garden.
00:31:57.740
Right. And so for me, it's been a journey about not just coming out, but actually coming into a radical,
00:32:05.100
real, tangible relationship with Jesus. So I have a question for you. I think from your
00:32:10.600
vantage point, this might be very interesting. We had debates on same-sex marriage, um, in the
00:32:17.620
United States took a lot longer than in Canada. We actually passed same-sex marriage in 2005,
00:32:21.980
but going into that, we at LifeSite have been reporting on that for years already and warning
00:32:30.320
because I actually used to be on a lot of the different lists of the LGBT activists in the country.
00:32:35.060
And it was funny because when the legislation was being considered, the LGBT members weren't actually
00:32:42.880
into it because it was like, marriage, what the heck do we want that for? It's monogamy. And, uh,
00:32:47.220
that's not us. Hello. Um, and it was funny because the, the leaders among the activists were talking
00:32:52.900
about, no, we need that. Basically they were saying it was for societal acceptance. So there was an
00:32:59.700
interesting thing. The, the bishops of the country had done a outreach or at least in our province,
00:33:05.780
did an outreach to some of the Catholic leaders or media leaders. And we were consulted on how one
00:33:13.040
might, you know, put up a public defense of traditional marriage rather than going down the
00:33:19.180
road of homosexual marriage. And it was funny because from what we had learned from the inside,
00:33:26.120
from activists, but also from dealing with, uh, the issue of homosexuality, very upfront,
00:33:32.420
because just like we deal with promiscuity and just like we deal with pornography and just like
00:33:36.760
we deal with all sorts of other sexual sins, very upfront and, you know, honestly, and, and pretty
00:33:42.140
bluntly, I would say, um, in the, in that way, we're like you, we said, look, basically this has
00:33:48.240
nothing to do with marriage. If you want to do something about marriage, you should have talked
00:33:51.560
about that when they were discussing divorce back in the sixties. This has all to do with
00:33:57.280
homosexuality. If you want to show them, because the big question for everybody in, in the public
00:34:05.300
anyway, was love is love. I thought you said your God is love. Why are you against love? So we were
00:34:13.340
trying to say to them, and this is to the bishops. I think the only way you can answer that is with love
00:34:18.440
to the LGBT person. You're like, look, I love you enough to tell you that this stuff is harmful for
00:34:26.120
you. It harms your body, it harms your mind, it harms your soul. The last thing we want to do is
00:34:30.160
see you without God in the end. So we're going to say this, even though in Canada it could get you
00:34:35.520
arrested, um, you're saying this behavior harms you and we love you enough to tell you that their
00:34:41.860
approach was absolutely not. We're going to talk about only the wonderfulness of heterosexual marriage.
00:34:50.340
And the only response was, that's great. We want it too. Thanks very much. And it passed in 2005
00:34:55.240
without a blip. There are still countries that have not yet gone down that road that are starting to
00:35:01.460
have these debates in their parliament. The church is largely sometimes silent and sometimes unwilling
00:35:09.980
to take the issue head on. What's the best approach in your opinion? Well, I think it's the question.
00:35:14.120
Do we want a nation, a country under God or under us? And ultimately, if we want it under us, make
00:35:22.900
your own rules, make your own rules. We want God out of school. Look what starts happening. We want
00:35:27.520
God out of this. You know, God's a tyrant. God is this, God is that. Well, if that's how you see him,
00:35:32.040
you're going to want him out of everything. Right? So to me, we need a refreshing. We need Holy Spirit
00:35:36.960
to come afresh and teach us who God is again, because I think we forgot. I think we've been
00:35:42.160
so fathered by the father of lies that we actually don't even believe God's good anymore.
00:35:49.160
And so, of course, we wouldn't want him anywhere near our schools, our politics, our government,
00:35:54.740
everything, you know? And so to me, it sits with a question, well, who is God to you? And do you want
00:36:01.080
him to be God? Or do you want to be God? And I think what we're saying is, in many cases,
00:36:08.020
we want to be God because we forgot. Or maybe we never even knew how good he is. Because I think
00:36:12.880
if we knew how good God was, we'd want him to be Lord, not only over our own lives, but over our
00:36:18.760
culture, our nation, our education system, over everything. And so Satan's really done a great work.
00:36:24.540
Um, not, I'm not celebrating it, but he's done a great work to really ruin the nature and character
00:36:32.380
of God. And so to me, you know, and that, that always hurt me when I, when I heard, even when I
00:36:37.660
was in the lifestyle, I always had a problem with love is love. I said, if, if somebody asked me,
00:36:42.760
what is red? And I said, red is red. They would look at me and say, I asked you, what is red?
00:36:48.820
Don't, don't use a circuit. Red is not red. I'm asking what is red. And so love is love to me
00:36:55.920
really hurts. Um, a person because love is supposed to point back to someone. See, when,
00:37:03.040
when the scripture says, God is love, doesn't say love is love. It says, God is love. That means when
00:37:08.640
somebody's seeking love, they know who to go back to, right? Because it's not just this self-answering
00:37:15.840
thing. No, it actually points to someone and to something. If I had a bumper sticker that said,
00:37:21.980
cat is cat. And we were at all logical. We would pull over and say, I'm sorry, that is really
00:37:28.420
illogical, right? What do you mean by that? Because the definition is not its own word. And so in that,
00:37:36.600
it breaks my heart when I hear love is love. I'm like, no, see, I'm holding back. If I tell someone
00:37:42.800
love is love, I'm holding back from them who love is and what love looks like, because it looks like
00:37:48.600
something. It looks like a man hanging on a cross that while we didn't deserve it, he gave his life
00:37:58.020
for us. That's what love looks like. Love looks like shed blood. And we don't trust that man anymore.
00:38:05.140
I don't think we trust him because if we did, we'd want him to be every bit Lord over every bit of our
00:38:12.260
life. And so to me, we need an awakening. We need an awakening of who God is again,
00:38:19.640
who he really is. And an experiential one. Cause man, I'm not with women, not because I'm afraid
00:38:26.580
of hell. Hell is real. And anybody who says it isn't, I'm genuinely concerned that they might
00:38:31.500
experience it. But my, my thing is this, this is real. This is very real. I'm not dating women
00:38:39.560
because I found a greater love. See, I think sometimes we try to take stuff from people
00:38:47.340
without offering something better, right? Uh, this person shouldn't be in that lifestyle. It's not
00:38:53.320
good for you. It's bad for you. What are you offering them? Who are you offering them? Are you,
00:38:58.620
you come out of the LGBT community? What community are they going to go into? Where are they going to go?
00:39:04.300
They know that the LGBT community is so accepting. So come as you are, stay as you are. You're fine.
00:39:10.980
You do you. They come into the church door. Hey, you need to change. Hey, you don't look good enough.
00:39:16.960
Hey, you you're doing all this wrong. Yes, there's truth. And we want to stay to that, but, but are we
00:39:21.000
welcoming? See the difference with church versus LGBT community, LGBT come as you are, stay as you are.
00:39:27.980
Ours is come as you are and meet the love of your life and let him transform you into something you
00:39:34.640
could never imagine into life and life abundantly. See, that's an offer of a transforming love.
00:39:43.520
That's different. Come as you are. Absolutely. But man, will you let him transform you and me?
00:39:51.480
See, not just you. So often we're pointing the finger and people feel all alone. Like they're the
00:39:57.400
only ones. They're the leper of the time. They're not. They're one of all of us sinners that all need
00:40:03.220
a savior. Very interesting question, because I'm sure you're good. You would get this from a lot of,
00:40:09.000
especially young people, especially those who might feel same sex attracted or whatnot.
00:40:13.500
So, but you're single now. You're alone. Aren't you lonely?
00:40:18.260
I've been in a room with thousands of people in my, in my, in my life, thousands of people and
00:40:25.780
thousands of people could know my name. And do you know, you can feel alone. You could be around
00:40:30.500
people. You can be in a relationship and feel alone. See, I don't, I'm single. Correct. I don't
00:40:35.820
have a significant other. I don't have a quote unquote partner in life, but I have Jesus and he is
00:40:44.460
enough. Otherwise I wouldn't be single. Why would I do this? I'm not, I'm not afraid. I'm not in a
00:40:51.280
place where, Oh my gosh, I just can't do this. I can't. I'm going to get in trouble. No, no, no,
00:40:55.300
no, no, no. First John 4, 18 for perfect love casts out fear. And the man who still fears is not
00:41:02.140
yet perfected in love for fear has, has to do with punishment. I lived in that fear for a long time.
00:41:08.520
I am not in that place by the grace of God. I have started to encounter true love.
00:41:14.460
True love is what has held me. I don't feel alone. If I'm in a room of 10,000 or I'm in a room by
00:41:20.720
myself, I don't not only feel alone. I know that I'm not alone. And guess what? The reality is we
00:41:28.180
were created. Jesus talks about, right? He talks about when they're asking him in the scriptures,
00:41:33.020
well, if this person marries 10 people and then they die and this person dies and who is the wife
00:41:37.820
in heaven. And Jesus says, there is no husband or wife in heaven. Do we hear that? He's saying,
00:41:44.420
for all of eternity, the person that you have yoked yourself to, which it's a beautiful thing.
00:41:49.980
Marriage is beautiful. It's of the Lord, but it's not for eternity. There is one relationship for all
00:41:57.220
of eternity, one marriage for all of eternity. And it is the bridegroom King, Jesus Christ himself
00:42:03.180
coming for his bride, you and me. That is the marriage of the lamb. That is the marriage supper
00:42:09.140
that I get to experience him now. And for all of eternity. I don't know a person on earth that while
00:42:19.260
I was ridiculing them and hating them, they gave their life for me. I've never found a person that
00:42:26.680
said, I love you so much when you don't love me, when you hate me, when you threw stones at me,
00:42:30.980
that I said, I love her so much. I'm going to die for her.
00:42:33.680
That's the love. That's the love our souls were created for. I am not alone. I am not alone. And
00:42:39.840
neither are you, but are you is your soul awakened to that lover of your soul that you will be with
00:42:48.160
for either all of eternity or be apart from for all of eternity. I want everyone, myself included
00:42:55.560
to experience that lover, that lover of my soul, that lover of your soul now and for all of eternity.
00:43:03.220
I am not miserable. I am not. You can ask my community. You could follow me around for a year.
00:43:09.560
Do I struggle? Yes. So do married people. So do people within the LGBT community. So do priests.
00:43:15.220
So do nuns. Find me a person that doesn't struggle. Find me a person that doesn't have bad days.
00:43:21.900
See, Jesus didn't promise. We're not going to have bad days. What he says is I'm with you in them.
00:43:26.320
I'm with you through it all victories, failures, successes. I will be with you. I will not abandon you.
00:43:33.220
That's the love that our hearts were built for. That's the love that I want to experience more.
00:43:38.220
And I want others to experience more. And I don't want to lie to people that they can find it in
00:43:43.020
another person. We can find love and yes, true love in another person, but it was meant to be a
00:43:49.020
reflection of our first love, the lover of our souls. Every relationship we have is supposed to mirror
00:43:56.080
and be like, wow, that reminds me of how much he loves me because your husband, your boyfriend,
00:44:01.600
your wife, your girlfriend will eventually pass away. Where are you now? Where are you now?
00:44:08.660
Where is the love going to come from? And so I pray we get this right, that we return to our first
00:44:14.140
love. Jesus talks about it in the book of Revelation. When he's talking to the church,
00:44:18.720
he says, one thing I hold against you is that you've lost your first love. You're doing well
00:44:23.900
with holding on to truth. You're doing well with this. You're doing well with that, but you've lost
00:44:27.880
your first love. I think he's asking us right now as a church, have we lost our first love?
00:44:35.080
And that's something that goes inside and outside of the church. I believe it's a question to the
00:44:41.920
nations, to each one of us, will we return to our first love, which is Jesus, the full revelation of
00:44:48.620
God the Father. The young person who's gone with you so far says, okay, now I'm interested. She's not
00:44:54.520
lonely. That's freakish because that's what I am as a young person. How? So if I like call out to him,
00:45:04.940
he's going to answer me, how? Well, be real. Don't pray someone else's prayer. Amen to those.
00:45:10.140
I love the prayers of the saints. I love them. And sometimes I pray them and I pray the rosary. I
00:45:15.440
love it. But relationship is personal. What is the cry of your heart? See, here's the thing. I didn't
00:45:24.200
say, God, I want a relationship. Show me the person I'm supposed to be with. I didn't tell him how to be
00:45:29.060
God. I said, can you show me you're better at being God? I didn't tell him how to show me that.
00:45:34.320
I just said, I give you permission to show me that you're good at being God. See, sometimes when we
00:45:40.240
pray, we're asking him to do what we want, which is still us being God. Will you cry out to him
00:45:47.160
and surrender? It's a surrender to love. It is a surrender to love. God, will you show me that I
00:45:53.920
am lovable? I don't look lovable. I don't act lovable. I don't feel lovable. Will you please,
00:46:00.100
Jesus, show me what you meant when you died on that cross that you died for me? Because I am a
00:46:06.260
sinner. I don't deserve it. You show me that I am beloved. Can you show me that I'm lovable? Man,
00:46:11.920
when our prayers start to look more like you show me, God, who you are, we're going to start learning
00:46:17.940
who we are. You cannot, and I cannot know myself apart from God. It says that we are made in his
00:46:24.180
likeness and his image. So if we don't know his likeness and his image, we don't know our likeness
00:46:29.740
and our image. I think our prayers, your prayers, if you're saying, I do, I want this. I want this,
00:46:36.280
Kim. I want this God, not I want this Kim, but I want this God. Then start talking to him. But
00:46:40.900
my question is, will you let him be God? Don't tell him, okay, if you get me this job, God, or if this
00:46:49.200
girl asks me out, or if I go and do this or whatever. No, no, no, no, no, no. Will you just
00:46:54.780
wipe it and say, God, I'm done being God. Will you show me that you're good at being God? He will show
00:47:03.100
you. He has been faithful for the last 10 years, and I know he will be faithful until I take my last
00:47:08.860
breath because that's who he is. Absolutely beautiful. Kim, if the many people who watch this
00:47:14.860
want to get more from you, want to get your book, how can they do that?
00:47:20.120
Restless Heart, My Struggle with Life and Sexuality. It's not just about sexuality, y'all. It's life.
00:47:26.400
You can get that. Sophia Institute is the publisher, so you can go right to their website. It's on Amazon
00:47:30.860
as well. And to Barnes & Noble, Target, I think that the world thinks that it's a pro-LGBT, but it's
00:47:37.540
really a pro-God. So it's found almost anywhere. And then I have a ministry and outreach for those
00:47:44.400
within the community or whatever it be, just people that are struggling. And that's
00:47:49.260
Overcome, M-I-N.com, M-I-N, short for ministries.
00:47:54.760
Kim Zember, thank you for all that you do on behalf of, I think on behalf of young people everywhere,
00:48:01.380
but probably people of every age everywhere. But having had eight children who are now all,
00:48:07.000
well, mostly in their 20s, your message resounds. And thank you for what you do. Thank you for being so
00:48:19.000
And God bless all of you. And we'll see you next time.
00:48:21.560
Hi, everyone. This is John Henry Weston. We hope you enjoyed this program. To see more like it,
00:48:36.580
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