The John-Henry Westen Show - September 10, 2024


FULL STORY ｜ Here’s why Bishop Strickland was CANCELED


Episode Stats

Length

42 minutes

Words per Minute

165.14651

Word Count

6,983

Sentence Count

562

Misogynist Sentences

1

Hate Speech Sentences

7


Summary

Deacon Keith Fournier shares the inside story of Bishop Joseph Strickland's ouster from the Diocese of Tyler, Texas, and how it was handled by the Bishop and his deacon, Dr. Janet Smith.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 When he stood up and raised the question about allowing a certain priest who travels around,
00:00:06.200 not teaching what the church teaches on matters of sexual morality,
00:00:10.920 and I knew this man had courage, and I knew that that kind of courage rubbed some people the wrong way.
00:00:18.900 Hello, my friends. This is a program that I've been waiting to do for a long time.
00:00:30.980 You all remember when Bishop Joseph Strickland was cancelled out of Tyler, Texas,
00:00:36.680 and we went, we did some interviews initially with him, with his deacon,
00:00:40.640 but at that time, we weren't able to tell you the full inside story.
00:00:46.480 Now that Deacon Keith Fournier, an old friend of mine who was the deacon to the bishop,
00:00:52.820 also a lawyer, just so much involved with him in the diocese,
00:00:56.880 he's finally left the diocese and now is able to tell this story,
00:01:03.180 the inside story of the cancellation of Texas Tyler Bishop Joseph Strickland.
00:01:10.720 You are definitely going to want to stay tuned for this show.
00:01:13.880 This October 17th and 18th, we are going to be running Rome Life Forum in Exile.
00:01:22.160 We're doing that in Kansas City, Missouri.
00:01:24.700 This fine bishop, Bishop Joseph Strickland, sort of in exile,
00:01:27.840 is going to be joining us there as well as Dr. Janet Smith,
00:01:31.240 as well as prophecy expert Xavier Aral, and many more, including a special guest.
00:01:38.700 Hope to see you there.
00:01:39.720 Hope to see you there.
00:01:40.720 God bless you.
00:01:42.360 RomeLifeForum.com.
00:01:43.500 Sign up now.
00:01:46.180 Deacon Keith Fournier, so good to be with you.
00:01:48.220 Thank you, John Henry.
00:01:48.940 It's always a blessing to be with you.
00:01:50.800 You're a wonderful man of God and my friend.
00:01:53.160 Praise God.
00:01:53.940 Let's begin, as you always do, with the sign of the cross,
00:01:55.960 if you wouldn't mind leading us, please.
00:01:57.700 In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
00:02:00.300 Heavenly Father, we invite you to pour out your Holy Spirit on this discussion.
00:02:04.640 In the name of your beloved Son and our Savior, Jesus Christ, guide us.
00:02:09.940 We thank you that you have invited us through the waters of baptism to be members of his mystical body.
00:02:15.780 And Jesus, we pray for your mystical body.
00:02:19.280 Your beloved Church, please bring authentic restoration and give us holy shepherds after your own heart.
00:02:26.120 We pray in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
00:02:29.820 Amen.
00:02:30.020 Amen.
00:02:31.700 So, Deacon Keith, remember well our last conversation on this subject where you explained how you and your wife, Lorraine,
00:02:39.820 really at the time of your should have been retirement, but you were in touch with Bishop Strickland and his beautiful work.
00:02:48.720 And then you felt called.
00:02:49.820 You felt really impelled by our Lord to go and serve.
00:02:53.040 And Lorraine was like, okay, let's do it.
00:02:55.120 First of all, that was an incredible story.
00:02:57.400 Tell us then, take us into what you experienced working with him.
00:03:03.260 Well, first of all, I've been married for 49 years.
00:03:06.700 And God bless my wife, Lorraine.
00:03:08.540 I think you know John Henry.
00:03:10.300 We've seen ourselves as a missionary couple.
00:03:12.540 And I've been serving the Lord for over 50 years.
00:03:16.440 First as a layman.
00:03:17.900 And then after ordination as a deacon of the church for 29 years.
00:03:21.900 And she's always been right there with me, knowing that we are called to serve the Lord and to give ourselves in every way we can.
00:03:29.760 So I've always been on the beginning of things, it seems, whether it was Steubenville or the American Center for Law and Justice.
00:03:36.180 But I was 64 years old.
00:03:38.440 I, at the time, was dean of an online Catholic school, doing ministry nationally.
00:03:44.500 But working out of my home in Chesapeake, most of our children were around us and our grandchildren.
00:03:50.020 And we do have five grown children and eight grandchildren.
00:03:53.400 And someone sent me this wonderful little Constitution on Teaching.
00:04:00.880 And it was promulgated by Bishop Joseph Strickland.
00:04:04.120 And as somebody who spent years in studying theology and serving the Lord, I read this and I said, this is absolutely wonderful.
00:04:13.440 In fact, I went farther than that.
00:04:15.340 I said, if this were implemented in every diocese, we would see the desperately needed restoration of the fullness of truth in the Catholic Church.
00:04:27.280 And so I wrote to this man, Joseph Bishop Strickland.
00:04:30.960 And it began what grew into a friendship.
00:04:33.720 He wrote back and we started writing to one another and emailing one another.
00:04:38.980 And we joke about it.
00:04:40.580 We became sort of pen pals, if you will, by virtue of the Internet.
00:04:44.360 I would send him articles and he would send me articles.
00:04:47.260 And that led to my first visit out there.
00:04:49.880 Before you get there, let me just ask you, what was in that Constitution that was so attractive, that so impelled you to get in touch with the bishop, even eventually to come out there?
00:05:01.920 Well, even from the beginning, I mean, the heart of this shepherd is so clear, the warmth, the concern, the care in his introduction.
00:05:10.420 But then it begins with Joseph Edward Strickland, by the grace of God and the Apostolic See, Bishop of Tyler, a teaching diocese, constitution on teaching the Catholic faith to the priests, deacons, religious catechists and teachers, and all of the faithful of the Diocese of Tyler, health and benediction.
00:05:30.720 And he goes on in this document to call for a reorientation of the entire diocese to make it a teaching diocese, teaching married couples what it means to be living the sacramental marriage and what the family really is as a domestic church, teaching the clergy, the priests and the deacons on their vocation and their call.
00:05:55.920 And he also founded something called the St. Philip Institute.
00:06:01.740 And as a deacon of the church, I thought that was a wonderful name, actually.
00:06:05.460 Philip was one of the original seven, huh?
00:06:07.660 Who the Lord sent out and he taught the Ethiopian eunuch what Isaiah the prophet, the Hebrew scripture prophet, was referring to when he spoke of the suffering servant.
00:06:20.120 And the Ethiopian eunuch was one to faith in Jesus and Philip baptized him.
00:06:24.820 I said, how exciting.
00:06:26.760 And as you go on in this apostolic constitution, it is so well written.
00:06:31.800 It's simple, but profound, theologically solid as a rock and a vision that is sweeping.
00:06:39.600 He talks about music.
00:06:41.240 He talks about the beauty of the liturgy, the sacred liturgy, the holy sacrifice of the mass, and even the imagery all throughout it.
00:06:49.540 I said, this is what we need.
00:06:52.300 And I wanted to be a part of it because I've been serving the Lord for a long time.
00:06:56.860 I'm a revert.
00:06:58.180 You know my story.
00:06:59.440 I came back to the Catholic faith.
00:07:01.220 Had I not been raised a Catholic, I would have become one.
00:07:03.880 And I love the holy sacrifice of the mass and the liturgy and all of its beauty and transcendence.
00:07:10.840 And I thought this man is the kind of bishop the church needs.
00:07:15.680 And as a deacon, and in the early church, deacons were in a special way in a relationship to the bishop.
00:07:21.780 I wanted to help this man.
00:07:23.040 So, first trip out, I went sort of incognito because, you know, I'm kind of known.
00:07:28.320 And I traveled with him.
00:07:29.400 And that was another thing that showed me his heart.
00:07:32.620 He was a shepherd.
00:07:33.780 He loved the faithful.
00:07:35.300 It's a large geographical diocese, but he went everywhere.
00:07:39.420 Where there was a confirmation, he was always there.
00:07:42.280 And his manner of approaching the people with the love of the good shepherd and the way he presided the holy sacrifice of the mass, the way he preached,
00:07:51.100 it was so properly evangelical and solid and inviting and catechetical.
00:07:57.300 I said, this is a gifted man.
00:07:59.520 And I went back and I told Lorraine about it.
00:08:02.780 And she said, wow.
00:08:04.380 Because she always said to me, you know, honey, you've been a deacon now for a good amount of time.
00:08:09.420 You've had good experiences.
00:08:11.460 The Lord's let you do a lot of different ministry.
00:08:13.920 But wouldn't it be wonderful if as a deacon, before the Lord calls us home, you were able to work with a bishop.
00:08:21.100 Specifically with a bishop.
00:08:23.220 So to make a long story short, we were invited out again.
00:08:26.520 And Lorraine and I both traveled out there.
00:08:28.780 And while I met with the bishop, she met a few times with him.
00:08:31.960 We went to dinner.
00:08:32.940 But then I had other meetings, protracted meetings.
00:08:35.420 She went from parish to parish.
00:08:37.420 And everywhere there was Eucharistic adoration, continual.
00:08:41.700 And I remember her coming back with the simplicity and saying, Jesus is everywhere.
00:08:46.100 And the bishop smiled.
00:08:49.220 And he knew what she meant.
00:08:51.660 And we were deeply moved.
00:08:53.100 Now, by this point, our kids are grown.
00:08:55.340 They've been raised in our home.
00:08:57.240 It's sort of the Catholic equivalent of what Protestants call a PK's home, a preacher's kid's home.
00:09:02.580 And, you know, we had done different things.
00:09:04.600 You know, cruising into a different season of life.
00:09:06.780 And when the bishop invited us to consider coming, and he did, after another visit, I prayed about it.
00:09:12.640 Lorraine prayed about it.
00:09:13.760 We knew what we had to do.
00:09:15.200 The sense I had spiritually was that the Lord was telling me I was to hold his hands up.
00:09:20.940 And the imagery was like Moses in the Hebrew Scriptures, and his hands being held out.
00:09:25.220 And when I came, I saw this being implemented, and I saw how vast the work was, and he needed help.
00:09:34.100 And I said, Bishop, whatever you need.
00:09:36.080 So I wore John Henry, as you know, different hats.
00:09:38.820 I'm a theologian and a constitutional lawyer, so I advised on theology, advised on law.
00:09:43.720 But then he made me the director of deacon formation, because there's a whole section on how to really select and form deacons.
00:09:50.900 And then he made me the dean of Catholic identity at the school, because he had a vision based on this, on Catholic education, being profoundly Catholic.
00:09:59.460 And then the St. Philip Institute was beginning to flourish.
00:10:03.140 This diocese was on fire, on fire for what Bishop loved to say, a profoundly Catholic witness.
00:10:12.000 The parishes were packed.
00:10:13.940 Masses were packed everywhere.
00:10:16.140 Seminarians were lining up.
00:10:18.720 People were moving here.
00:10:20.900 400 of them from other parts of the country.
00:10:24.780 And the church was alive and faithful.
00:10:28.720 Faithful.
00:10:29.640 Faithful to the Scriptures.
00:10:31.760 Faithful to the Fathers.
00:10:33.520 Faithful to the Magisterium.
00:10:35.300 And he had such a simplicity about them.
00:10:37.600 That's the other thing.
00:10:38.300 I've worked with a lot of leaders over my life, and I'm going to be 70 pretty soon.
00:10:43.020 It's been a good life serving the Lord.
00:10:45.180 Nothing like it.
00:10:45.940 But I've never been with a man like this.
00:10:48.280 A genuinely humble, self-effacing, joyful man.
00:10:52.620 I remember him telling me, I'm just a skinny kid from East Texas.
00:10:55.900 And so I was a part of the implementation of this in whatever way I could, serving on a board for the St. Philip Institute, eventually being the dean of Catholic identity at the high school, the local high school, which, by the way, was the first step.
00:11:10.900 He wanted to implement this vision for the genuine Catholic education at the high school, and then export it to the other parochial schools in the diocese.
00:11:21.920 So he had an all-encompassing vision for dynamic, profoundly Catholic faith and life, and a catechetical approach that flowed out of this.
00:11:34.120 And this was to be implemented through the St. Philip Institute.
00:11:39.200 So I would say the first couple of years we were there, I mean, a lot of hard work, tremendous amounts of prayer.
00:11:46.360 And that's the other thing.
00:11:47.040 I officed initially in the chancery, and it was such an honor for me to go to his daily mass.
00:11:54.800 And you've been to his mass.
00:11:56.340 The way he presides at the altar, and things were going well.
00:12:00.160 Now, I will say that prior to our moving there, I had also seen something else at the USCCB, and we all know what happened.
00:12:09.360 When he stood up and raised the question about the Cardinal McCarrick thing and how it was handled.
00:12:17.700 When he stood up and raised the question about allowing a certain priest who travels around, not teaching what the church teaches on matters of sexual morality.
00:12:28.300 And I knew this man had courage, and I knew that that kind of courage rubbed some people the wrong way.
00:12:36.820 Because as much as we love the church, and both you and I are sons of the Catholic Church, make no mistake about it.
00:12:43.880 But I'm loyal to the Roman Catholic Church, and so are you.
00:12:48.360 And this nonsense that people are bringing up, even about Bishop Strickland, you'd never meet a man more loyal to the Roman Catholic Church.
00:12:57.380 But that was sort of the telltale beginnings that he was stirring up some folks, not necessarily within his own diocese, because most of the priests and the clergy loved him, but around the country.
00:13:09.500 And that would later come back in the scenario that unfolded.
00:13:14.340 We were there for five and a half years, really.
00:13:18.100 And it was only in the last couple of years that all of the challenges began to be presented.
00:13:25.320 And they were serious.
00:13:26.680 And I had one thing.
00:13:28.620 And it sort of gave me an insight, too.
00:13:31.200 I think it was the first year I was there.
00:13:32.840 The bishop took a position on a pro-life matter.
00:13:35.700 Not here, I live in Virginia again now.
00:13:37.700 But in Texas, on a little baby, Tinsley Lewis, beautiful little baby.
00:13:42.940 It wasn't trisomy 18, but it was something like that.
00:13:45.460 He stood for her and for her mother and against an effort to withdraw food and nutrition from this child.
00:13:51.680 And that got some people very, very upset.
00:13:54.720 He didn't do things to cause problems.
00:13:58.240 He simply tried to stay faithful to the authentic magisterium of the church, particularly the teaching of now St. John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI.
00:14:12.200 He was one of the last bishops chosen by Benedict XVI.
00:14:16.700 And when it came to the implementation of Evangelium Vitae, the gospel of life, this is a passionately pro-life bishop.
00:14:24.500 And Veritatis Splendor, the splendor of truth on the moral teaching of the church.
00:14:28.860 That was what he wanted implemented in the diocese of Tyler.
00:14:33.420 Where does this start going off the rails?
00:14:35.880 You've got an extremely successful diocese, both in terms of vocations, in terms of the number of Catholics going to the churches.
00:14:44.540 The churches are full.
00:14:45.540 You have adoration everywhere.
00:14:47.640 You have financial health in the diocese as well.
00:14:52.120 So where does this start going awry?
00:14:55.000 That last incident that I mentioned to you, I think was the beginning, because looking back now, there was a question raised by some of his brother bishops, because he wouldn't sign off on an approach being taken to this little child.
00:15:12.640 At the time, and as a pro-life lawyer, and you know this, I did pro-life work for years.
00:15:17.040 It was one of the, it was in on the founding of the American Center for Law and Justice.
00:15:20.540 But when I got to Texas, I was surprised to find out that Texas had in its statutes what was called TADA, the Texas Advanced Directive Act, drafted to make sure they comply with the teaching of the church.
00:15:34.260 And it's very clear that the withdrawal of nutrition and hydration is not allowed, period, period.
00:15:43.100 Even if there's some confusion on that starting to come from the Holy See.
00:15:46.100 That's ordinary means.
00:15:47.920 When you withdraw food and water from a disabled person, you are engaging in euthanasia.
00:15:54.280 When there's a dispute on this, the overriding of the agent by a committee in the hospital.
00:16:00.760 And that's what was happening with this little baby.
00:16:03.700 And some of the Texas bishops thought that the TADA Act, with its faults, was the best they could get.
00:16:10.360 And they disagreed with Bishop Strickland on his strong position.
00:16:14.200 Again, he stood up and said, no, we cannot sit back on this.
00:16:20.260 And in that case, so that everybody knows, the mom was advocating for the life of the baby.
00:16:25.080 That's right.
00:16:25.620 And the hospital authorities were saying, no, we have to withdraw nutrition and hydration.
00:16:31.200 This child is too severely disabled.
00:16:33.380 No quality of life, blah, blah, blah.
00:16:35.120 And I mean, I find it hard to believe that the bishops, for the most part, other than Bishop Strickland or a good majority of them, sided with the hospital against the mom?
00:16:47.040 Well, you know, I will tell you that Bishop Strickland did something even more amazing.
00:16:51.980 In addition to standing up and saying, I cannot agree with my brother bishops on this.
00:16:57.280 I respect you, but I cannot sign off on the current approach.
00:17:02.660 You know what he did, John Henry?
00:17:04.000 And I don't know if this has ever been made public.
00:17:05.840 With the mother's invitation, he went and baptized this little girl, this little baby in a NICU unit.
00:17:15.720 Now, I'm happy to say that six or seven years later, this little girl is being wheeled around happily by her single mom.
00:17:23.280 And she's in a wheelchair.
00:17:25.320 But I saw what was happening to Tinsley Lewis as a baby Terry Schiavo.
00:17:29.840 And we all remember what happened to Terry Schiavo, a disabled woman who was euthanized.
00:17:35.600 They withheld water and food from a disabled woman.
00:17:40.040 And that was what was going to happen with this little baby.
00:17:42.800 So this stirred some controversy among his brother bishops.
00:17:47.620 And I think that was kind of the beginning.
00:17:49.920 And then nationally, even though he never really reached out nationally, his concern was his diocese.
00:17:57.040 He wanted this little diocese.
00:17:59.000 He's from East Texas.
00:18:00.540 He was raised there.
00:18:02.060 He wanted it to be a gem of the Catholic faith.
00:18:05.360 And by the way, he was not only beloved and is not only beloved by Catholics in the Diocese of Tyler, our evangelical Protestant friends loved him.
00:18:12.740 They just recently gave him an award, an honor, because he preached the gospel without compromise.
00:18:19.640 And they were drawn to that.
00:18:21.480 He's a bishop of bishops.
00:18:25.020 He's exactly what the church needs.
00:18:27.340 Now, he also shook up some people.
00:18:29.800 I'll give you an example in the deacon formation area.
00:18:32.660 Yeah, I've been a deacon now 29 years.
00:18:35.800 And deacon formation is all over the place.
00:18:38.420 And he had put the diaconate on hold when he became the bishop of Tyler so that he could look into how the program was being operated.
00:18:49.560 He ordained the ones who were already, in a sense, in the queue.
00:18:52.880 And then he asked me to look into the program.
00:18:57.140 And I did.
00:18:58.020 And I said, you know, we need to begin again, because the whole model for the preparation of deacons, not just in Tyler, but it's all over the place in the United States.
00:19:09.480 And when you study church history, the catechism and canon law is clear.
00:19:13.640 And I'll paraphrase.
00:19:14.780 We are ordained not to the priesthood, but to the ministry.
00:19:19.340 What is the ministry of a deacon?
00:19:21.900 We didn't come back into being in the Latin rite simply because there were too few priests.
00:19:27.900 It was the restoration of an ancient order.
00:19:31.960 So if the deacon has a ministry that is different, how is it different?
00:19:36.580 What is the deacon's relationship to the bishop?
00:19:39.300 Who calls forth the deacon?
00:19:41.920 How are they formed?
00:19:43.340 How are they trained?
00:19:44.900 And so he had me begin to call the deacons together for regular input.
00:19:50.300 Now, some of the deacons were happy about it.
00:19:52.900 Some of them weren't.
00:19:53.660 And I think that's true, probably, of the way he treated some of the priests who were older.
00:19:59.100 And that is that formation never ends, never, until we're with the Lord, okay?
00:20:06.000 And so we would continuously have teaching that enabled a different model.
00:20:10.880 And it's not a new model.
00:20:12.540 It was really an ancient model of bishops recognizing those men who were already engaged in service.
00:20:19.300 And not all men engaged in service need to be ordained as deacons.
00:20:23.020 You know, the same council that restored the order in the Second Vatican Council restored,
00:20:27.840 once again, a recognition of the universal call to holiness and the role of lay leadership,
00:20:32.760 appropriate lay leadership.
00:20:34.480 But that was rattling some cages.
00:20:37.500 Some of the older priests, I think, began to get concerned at his insistence
00:20:42.400 on the proper kind of celebration of the sacred liturgy and the ongoing instruction and teaching.
00:20:49.240 So those things began to stir as well.
00:20:51.620 But I really think it was his intervention at the USCCB that sort of hit the target and
00:20:59.620 stirred up some people way beyond the Diocese of Tyler.
00:21:03.080 And then the incident with baby Tinsley Lewis.
00:21:06.260 And that led to what was called an apostolic visitation.
00:21:10.260 And that was not an experience that I'd ever want to go through again, because contrary to what it should have been, which was an honest review of the Diocese of Tyler, where I was, and I had faculties.
00:21:27.540 By the way, I was not incarnated in the Diocese of Tyler.
00:21:30.500 I'm incarnated in the Diocese of Richmond, and I was given faculties.
00:21:34.920 Priests and deacons have to have faculties in the Diocese of Tyler.
00:21:38.460 So even after Bishop was removed, I had to be very, very careful.
00:21:43.360 I did not want to say anything inappropriate.
00:21:46.120 And I did receive a letter from some postings on social media, not about these issues, but on other matters.
00:21:52.280 And so I had to sort of be quiet.
00:21:54.120 But I'm glad I never really sought to be incarnated in the Diocese of Tyler, to be honest with you, because they removed this bishop.
00:22:02.500 And I would have considered, to the chagrin of my children, our children, staying in the Diocese of Tyler just to spend the latter years of whatever time I have left on this earth assisting the bishop.
00:22:16.060 That's what deacons did in the early church.
00:22:18.920 And, you know, that's what I had the privilege of doing when I was in Tyler, Texas.
00:22:26.260 Pope Pius XI said men must look for the peace of Christ in the kingdom of Christ.
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00:22:59.080 So how did this go down?
00:23:00.560 I think this is what everybody wants to know because, you know, we've been told a few things.
00:23:05.720 But what actually happened in these meetings?
00:23:09.320 They called it.
00:23:10.220 We were told first there was a visitation coming.
00:23:12.480 Oh, what's that?
00:23:13.120 Nobody knows.
00:23:13.940 And then most people thought they can't actually cancel.
00:23:17.460 Who's going to actually cancel an American bishop who everybody knows is holy?
00:23:22.080 I mean, I don't even think his enemies, when he went to the USCCB and called him out for promoting Father James Martin the way Pope Francis is promoting Father James Martin.
00:23:31.620 Yeah, he would have ruffled some feathers.
00:23:34.380 But I don't think even the people whose feathers he ruffled and probably were responsible for getting him out thought he wasn't holy.
00:23:42.340 I think they know he's holy.
00:23:43.520 No one can spend that long in adoration every day and not like Moses did shine with the presence of God.
00:23:50.520 So what went down?
00:23:51.700 Well, you know, I can only give you my personal experience.
00:23:56.380 The timing of it all is for me personally is something I'll never forget.
00:24:00.440 I had just undergone major heart surgery.
00:24:03.880 And one of the side effects of the heart surgery, thank God, I'm fine.
00:24:08.160 But one of the side effects was I had no voice.
00:24:10.780 I was seven weeks without a voice.
00:24:12.820 And for those who are watching or listening, and for you, you've known me for a long time, I'm rarely without the capacity to share my faith.
00:24:21.180 But you remember, I was raspy.
00:24:23.360 I couldn't even speak.
00:24:24.520 And I had just come out of the hospital.
00:24:26.340 I was weak.
00:24:27.820 And I received a call from the vicar general asking me, Deacon, the apostolic visitation is coming.
00:24:36.120 You need to come.
00:24:37.620 You need to help our bishop.
00:24:39.860 That's what I was told.
00:24:40.980 You need to help our bishop.
00:24:43.660 I said, I can't speak.
00:24:45.220 He said, well, you know, you just have to speak as loud as you can.
00:24:48.900 Come and help our bishop.
00:24:50.380 So when I went, that's what I was hoping would happen.
00:24:53.560 And that's not what I experienced.
00:24:55.620 Not what I experienced at all.
00:24:57.300 I experienced, and this is just my personal opinion, that this was not a visitation seeking information.
00:25:05.100 This was a foregone conclusion.
00:25:06.920 Seeking a way to sort of justify asking him to resign his position as the bishop of the diocese of Thailand.
00:25:18.080 Not as a bishop.
00:25:18.940 He is still a bishop.
00:25:19.880 So, I mean, saying he's canceled, you know, it has a little bit of confusion to it.
00:25:24.360 He's still a successor of the apostles.
00:25:26.600 He's still a bishop of the church.
00:25:28.380 But his diocese was removed.
00:25:30.060 And he was asked to do so voluntarily.
00:25:32.400 He said he could not do so.
00:25:33.660 So, he was retired.
00:25:35.500 But from the moment I walked into that room, and John Henry, I'll say this, I've been a lawyer for 44 years.
00:25:41.480 I've been co-counsel at the Supreme Court.
00:25:44.220 So, I don't get intimidated.
00:25:46.440 But when I walked in there, I felt like I was in sort of a Sanhedrin.
00:25:51.380 I really did.
00:25:52.360 And it was really unusual, it seemed to me.
00:25:54.580 Maybe this happens.
00:25:56.040 I was asked to sign an NDA, a non-disclosure agreement.
00:25:59.700 So, I thought, wait a minute, this is a pastoral visit to review, you know, a cell of the body and an NDA.
00:26:10.340 And that's why I was limited.
00:26:12.100 Now, it's a foregone matter because he's had his diocese removed, and the issue is over.
00:26:16.700 But I did sign it.
00:26:18.460 And I was in that room for quite a long time.
00:26:21.480 And I could only share what I knew.
00:26:24.720 He was a wonderful leader.
00:26:26.860 A good bishop.
00:26:28.020 You know, the kinds of questions that came up revealed to me a deeper problem, which I'll speak to.
00:26:36.540 And that is, I think we have moved from an ecclesial model of the church.
00:26:42.720 And the church is not first an institution, though she is an institution.
00:26:47.080 She's not first an organization, although she needs to be organized.
00:26:50.340 She is first the mystical body in communion.
00:26:54.900 And bishops are successors of the apostles.
00:26:58.020 And they're called first to be pastors and shepherds of souls.
00:27:02.020 And we've moved to a corporatist model, I might say, where we're looking for bishops to be more CEOs.
00:27:09.260 How are they running the business?
00:27:10.860 And the kinds of questions that were coming forth were mostly on that front.
00:27:17.160 But even there, I mean, I said to the bishops and priest who was assembled, I said, look, I've run, helped to found and run substantial organizations, ministry and law firms.
00:27:29.180 This is a good leader.
00:27:31.520 This is a man who has chosen good leaders.
00:27:34.600 From every metric, this diocese is flourishing.
00:27:38.840 But the question I posed was, what kind of model of church do we really want?
00:27:46.300 Do we want the ecclesial model?
00:27:48.960 You know, Bishop Strickland has a, you've heard him say this many, many times.
00:27:52.600 He speaks of the times in which we live.
00:27:54.960 And he says, we need to be first century Christians in a 21st century world.
00:28:00.100 Well, when you look at the early church, look at the bishops.
00:28:04.760 They were teachers.
00:28:05.920 They were shepherds of souls.
00:28:07.480 They were men of deep and profound prayer.
00:28:11.320 Yes, they had to make sure that practical details were taken care of, but they would choose people who would do that and assist them so that they could be free.
00:28:20.600 Look even at the formation of deacons in Acts of the Apostles, chapter 6.
00:28:24.700 What happened?
00:28:25.640 All of the practical details of caring for the widows and the like were detracting the apostles, the first bishops, from teaching and preaching, which was their primary calling.
00:28:35.720 Because they were successors.
00:28:39.280 They were apostles.
00:28:41.320 They continued the redemptive ministry of Jesus.
00:28:43.740 So what did they do?
00:28:44.720 They chose seven, imposed hands, and those details were handled.
00:28:49.260 And what I tried to share was this is the kind of bishop the church needs right now.
00:28:54.940 I will say this, and this is my opinion.
00:28:57.560 There was no justifiable grounds to take this diocese away from Bishop Joseph Strickland.
00:29:03.840 And that's my personal opinion.
00:29:05.720 As someone who's been around for a long time and been responsible for leading, no justifiable grounds.
00:29:12.420 It was unjustified.
00:29:13.900 But he didn't fight it because he's a loyal son of the church.
00:29:17.540 So he voluntarily retired, which shows his humility.
00:29:21.980 Shows his humility.
00:29:23.360 You mentioned earlier his adoration.
00:29:26.460 I know that is the source of the power of grace and the Holy Spirit at work within this holy man.
00:29:35.000 You know, he's a holy man.
00:29:37.280 He's a man of prayer.
00:29:38.360 And he's a man of great evangelical joy.
00:29:41.140 John Henry, you know this.
00:29:42.140 You know how refreshing it is to be around this guy?
00:29:45.340 You know, he gets painted as, you know, some kind of guy who's just pointing the face.
00:29:49.660 He's a joyful man of faith.
00:29:51.720 He has evangelical joy.
00:29:53.720 He loves the Lord.
00:29:54.980 You can't help when you're around him from being drawn into that kind of intimate communion with the Lord Jesus.
00:30:01.940 And what brings it about in his life is he prays.
00:30:05.960 He really, really, really prays.
00:30:10.060 Yes, he prays, but he has this kind of interior communion with the Lord.
00:30:15.700 And, you know, he has a deep devotion to Our Lady and a deep devotion to the Eucharist, the most holy Eucharist.
00:30:24.400 And one of the images he uses a lot in his own ministry is that vision or dream of St. John Bosco with the two pillars, Our Lady and the Eucharist.
00:30:35.900 And that's how he lived his devotion to Jesus Christ.
00:30:39.780 The Immaculate Heart of Mary brought him into a deeper relationship with the Sacred Heart of Jesus, her beloved son.
00:30:46.060 So I said to this Apostolic Visitation Committee, this is the kind of bishop the church needs.
00:30:54.060 Somebody didn't agree with me.
00:30:56.320 But you know what?
00:30:58.820 Look what happened.
00:31:00.320 They took a diocese and in a certain sense gave him a nation and who knows beyond.
00:31:05.200 And he's not looking for it.
00:31:07.580 You know, he was he's just a simple guy.
00:31:10.540 He really is that skinny kid from East Texas.
00:31:14.040 I remember one of the first times he shared that with me.
00:31:17.760 First of all, I was shocked.
00:31:19.400 I mean, I thought, wow, what an image.
00:31:21.620 But then I thought of the prophet coming to Jonathan and Jonathan bringing out all of his sons except one who was in the field named David.
00:31:31.920 And I thought, this is the man in the field.
00:31:34.920 This is the little guy.
00:31:36.580 And, you know, I think that's the kind of man he is.
00:31:39.900 How did this play out for you?
00:31:41.480 Because, I mean, you were part of this visitation.
00:31:44.100 You mentioned the vicar general, John Gomez, I believe is his name.
00:31:47.320 He he called you in to defend the bishop.
00:31:50.300 Obviously, this was not a defense of the bishop.
00:31:53.100 This seemed to be a foregone conclusion that that he was on his way out the door.
00:31:59.260 What what went through your head?
00:32:01.620 Then how did that proceed to cancellation to to removal from the diocese?
00:32:06.160 And what did you go through at the time?
00:32:08.360 Mourning.
00:32:09.780 Deep mourning for my dear friend.
00:32:12.440 And I will say that he is my dear friend.
00:32:14.860 He is my dear friend.
00:32:16.440 I just have a deep brotherly love for this man of God.
00:32:19.820 And so does my wife.
00:32:21.260 And it was mourning and grieving that that this would be happening to him of all people.
00:32:27.400 To him.
00:32:28.520 The simplest, holiest guy I've ever known.
00:32:32.340 You know, I mean, he draws me to my knees.
00:32:34.840 So it was mourning and it was grieving.
00:32:36.880 But I had a sense, you know, I'm not naive.
00:32:39.120 There's not a naive bone in my body.
00:32:41.580 And I think you know that I've been around.
00:32:44.060 I had a sense how it was going to go.
00:32:46.220 And even before, you know, when I first said yes to coming here, I said, Bishop, I'll do
00:32:52.060 whatever you need, whatever hat you want me to wear.
00:32:54.660 But, you know, I'm not a youth minister.
00:32:56.720 Don't put me in the school.
00:32:57.940 And the second year I was here, his vision for that school becoming profoundly Catholic.
00:33:05.040 And so he formed something called the Cornerstone Commission and he put me on it.
00:33:09.720 And we went through that school and we evaluated everything.
00:33:14.420 First and foremost, it's Catholic identity.
00:33:16.620 And then all of the practical details of budgeting and physical plant and all of it.
00:33:23.180 And we interviewed parents and we interviewed the faculty and we searched for a principal
00:33:28.580 and we helped to rewrite a mission statement.
00:33:32.000 And that was causing some repercussions because some of those associated with that school liked
00:33:38.060 it the way it was.
00:33:39.020 And it was OK.
00:33:40.060 It was a good school.
00:33:40.880 But Bishop wanted it to be a profoundly Catholic school.
00:33:45.500 So there was some pushback there.
00:33:47.860 And I think that probably made its way up the ranks.
00:33:51.160 So I had a growing suspicion.
00:33:53.380 And there were threats of a coming apostolic visitation.
00:33:56.860 And so everyone was nervous about it.
00:33:58.840 And so afterwards and after my experience there, I mean, I must admit, I first was grieving and
00:34:06.540 mourning and praying for my friend and for the faithful.
00:34:10.200 My goodness, the 400 people that had relocated to the diocese because they wanted to be a part
00:34:15.960 of this beautiful example of profoundly Catholic life.
00:34:20.120 And then it moved to, I must admit, anger.
00:34:24.760 Be angry, but do not sin.
00:34:25.940 The apostle writes, do not let the sun go down on your anger.
00:34:28.840 But how someone of such humility could be treated so poorly, so poorly.
00:34:38.580 But then I was drawn out of that because when his diocese was removed, the way he received it,
00:34:47.340 not an iota of anger, but humility.
00:34:52.420 And so that led me to repentance.
00:34:54.200 That led me to just realize how far I have to go to make it to heaven.
00:35:02.060 Because here's a man who was treated so unjustly.
00:35:05.660 And yet, almost like Job, he stayed faithful and he persevered.
00:35:10.740 And he knew the Lord was with him.
00:35:14.260 He knew Our Lady was praying for him.
00:35:16.640 He knew he'd find his strength in the Most Holy Eucharist.
00:35:21.280 And so that was sort of the progression, John Henry.
00:35:24.740 I went through deep grieving and mourning, anger.
00:35:28.780 I didn't act on the anger whatsoever.
00:35:31.540 But it did have an effect on my health.
00:35:33.620 I just had major surgery.
00:35:35.900 And, you know, so it was a very, very tough time.
00:35:39.280 And then, of course, the awkwardness, because after that visitation and after the decision
00:35:45.320 had been made, it was rather awkward for me.
00:35:48.920 You know, my role as director of deacon formation, well, there weren't any more deacon meetings.
00:35:55.580 The school was beginning to waffle a little bit, although, thank God, they still have a good
00:36:02.360 principal.
00:36:03.320 Our commission was a part of choosing that principal.
00:36:05.540 And the mission statement remains, St. Philip Institute began to dwindle.
00:36:10.300 One of the things I had done, and a lot of people had done, is we would use this constitution
00:36:14.580 on teaching before our own teaching.
00:36:17.660 And I would say, now, how are we implementing this?
00:36:20.060 This was the framework for the recovery and the restoration that this bishop was calling
00:36:26.840 for in the Diocese of Tyler.
00:36:28.560 And all of a sudden, it went away.
00:36:31.020 And things began to change.
00:36:33.300 And I knew, and my wife knew, you don't want the bishop.
00:36:39.380 You certainly don't want the person considered his, you know, right hand as a deacon.
00:36:45.020 And it was awkward.
00:36:46.740 So there was a certain awkwardness about it.
00:36:49.480 You know, I continued to go to the school, but I could see my days, they were numbered.
00:36:54.140 And Lorene and I prayed, prayed hard.
00:36:57.080 Lord, where should we go?
00:36:58.620 And it was pretty clear.
00:37:00.280 And Bishop was great.
00:37:01.260 He said, yeah, we can still work together.
00:37:03.860 So we moved back to Chesapeake.
00:37:05.800 And we do still work together.
00:37:06.940 I mean, I have to tell you, we had the honor of having him here in our little townhome last
00:37:12.040 week.
00:37:12.940 And we still have not completely moved in.
00:37:16.340 But we had taken this one room.
00:37:18.220 It's much smaller.
00:37:19.120 And we've taken this one room.
00:37:20.120 And Bishop had given me this leather Episcopal insignia that someone had made for him with
00:37:26.780 in Latin.
00:37:27.940 And I won't say the Latin, but I will dwell in the house of the Lord, which was his motto.
00:37:32.080 So we put it outside of his room.
00:37:33.940 And Lorene hung the curtains and put up all the icons.
00:37:37.580 And that was while we were away on the retreat.
00:37:39.920 And he came and he stayed with us.
00:37:41.620 And he's doing very, very well.
00:37:43.700 You know, he looks a lot different, as you know.
00:37:45.440 He grew a beard.
00:37:46.140 But he's full of the peace and the joy that characterizes his mission.
00:37:51.700 And I'm sure that this is still something that at times he says, oh, my goodness, I can't
00:37:58.380 believe this all happened.
00:37:59.720 But he doesn't spend much time there.
00:38:01.920 He's got too much to do loving and serving the Lord.
00:38:05.000 And that's what I want to do as well.
00:38:06.960 Absolutely beautiful.
00:38:08.040 Any final thoughts for us, Deacon Keith, on this cancellation, its ramifications, or the
00:38:13.460 message in it for the faithful?
00:38:14.820 Right.
00:38:15.240 We need more than anything else right now in the church.
00:38:20.500 Prayer.
00:38:21.900 This is the Lord's church.
00:38:24.480 Jesus Christ is the head of his mystical body.
00:38:28.860 There is no plan B.
00:38:31.220 The church, the Catholic church, is the plan.
00:38:36.240 And she's in great need of prayer right now.
00:38:39.760 Pray for Pope Francis.
00:38:41.560 Pray for the bishops.
00:38:43.100 Pray for our priest.
00:38:45.240 Pray for Bishop Strickland.
00:38:47.180 Pray for clergy who have been silenced.
00:38:51.020 Really, for no good reason, because they're simply teaching what the church teaches, teaching
00:38:57.120 what cannot be changed.
00:38:59.620 Please pray.
00:39:01.480 Pray.
00:39:02.520 Adore the Eucharist.
00:39:04.200 Pray the rosary.
00:39:05.900 Ask the Lord to give us more shepherds after his own heart, like Bishop Joseph Strickland.
00:39:11.460 And whatever your state in life, whatever your vocation, it was Benedict XVI who reminded us,
00:39:17.440 we are co-responsible for the church.
00:39:20.320 We need to love the church.
00:39:22.640 To belong to Jesus is to belong to his church.
00:39:27.140 And there is a desperate need right now for faithful men and women, laymen and women, deacons, priests, bishops, religious, pray.
00:39:39.560 Adore the Lord in the Eucharist and keep doing what we were baptized to do, and that is to take our place as members of the mystical body of Jesus Christ.
00:39:51.540 He's the head.
00:39:52.560 He's the captain of the army, and he has a plan.
00:39:55.600 Absolutely beautiful.
00:39:56.260 This is not only for America, because in the beginning of this saga we've been through for the last 11 years or so,
00:40:02.560 you had the cancellation of Cardinal Raymond Burke.
00:40:06.500 You had, more recently, the cancellation of Bishop Ray in France, who, very similar to Bishop Strickland,
00:40:14.580 was a great bishop with an amazing record financially, on vocations, on everything else.
00:40:20.320 Also cancelled, given a co-adjud or a no power.
00:40:23.940 His ordinations were even cancelled before that.
00:40:26.680 And then the unthinkable, the cancellation of an American bishop known to be holy everywhere.
00:40:33.880 It is the obvious proof of the message of Our Lady of Akita to Sister Agnes Sasagawa.
00:40:42.840 You will, evil will infiltrate the church, and you will see bishops against bishops, cardinals against cardinals.
00:40:48.520 We have that playing out right before us.
00:40:51.740 We have it.
00:40:52.240 I won't say the victims of it, because God and His providence can use all of these things for His good, and He is doing that.
00:41:01.060 Sister Agnes just passed away, and I think that's significant,
00:41:05.640 because she's passing away right in the times when the prophecy that she was given by our Lord in 1973 to bring to the world is reaching its fulfillment.
00:41:15.640 Deacon Keith, thank you so very much for being with us.
00:41:18.060 God bless you.
00:41:18.620 God bless you too, John Henry.
00:41:19.840 Thank you.
00:41:20.520 Would you mind giving everyone your blessing before you go?
00:41:22.520 Heavenly Father, we thank you for this time that we've had together.
00:41:24.940 Father, we thank you for the great gift of our baptism into the mystical body of your beloved Son, Jesus Christ.
00:41:32.300 We thank you, Lord, that we are now sons and daughters in the Son, and that we can call you Father, Abba.
00:41:39.000 And we pray that you would continue to guide us, give us all the graces we need to remain faithful to our vocation.
00:41:46.760 I pray for John Henry and all of the brethren associated with LifeSite News and all of the various apostolates and ministries that are being raised up and staying faithful.
00:41:57.980 And may the blessing of Almighty God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit come upon everyone viewing or hearing this podcast.
00:42:06.780 Amen.
00:42:07.840 God bless you.
00:42:08.340 Amen.
00:42:09.000 God bless you, Deacon Geith, and God bless all of you.
00:42:12.300 We'll see you next time.
00:42:13.080 We'll see you next time.