How the Church CHANGED Overnight： Controversy of Vatican II
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 2 minutes
Words per Minute
147.45197
Summary
In this episode of Faith and Reason, Fr. Charles M. Myrrh talks about the impact of the Second Vatican Council on his life, and how it changed the course of his life. He also talks about his early life growing up in the 1950s and 60s in the United States and Canada, and the impact it had on the way he saw the world.
Transcript
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You could always depend on the Catholic Church for defending liberty from non-liberty,
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defending right from wrong. All of a sudden you had to dialogue, can abortion in some cases be right?
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Friends, we are very privileged to be in the home, in the hacienda, if you will,
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of Father Charles Myrrh. Many of you will know Father Charles Myrrh from Faith and Reason,
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and probably many more of you will know of him from his books, his several books, actually,
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Murder in the 33rd Degree, as well as some of his other books, particularly probably one about a rather famous,
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what would you call her, woman who dealt with the Pope, with Pope Pius XII, Mother Pascualina, indeed.
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And we're very privileged to speak with Father here in his hacienda in Spain, in Seville,
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Sevilla, Spain, as they call it here. Father, thank you so much for joining us.
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Thank you very much for having me, and thank you for being here.
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It's so good to be here in person. Let's begin as you always do, at the sign of the cross.
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In nomine Patris, et fili, et spiritus sancti. Amen.
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Amen. Father, for those who don't know you well, tell us a little bit about yourself to start.
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Give us the little sketch, and then we'll get more into it.
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I was born in 1950 in St. Paul, Minnesota, first of eight children. One died when he was an infant,
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as a matter of fact, just hours old. And so we are seven siblings, and I was given a fine education.
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In those days, it was a parochial school, and everything was taught to me very well, meticulously.
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And by two groups of sisters, particularly. The first were the Dominican Sisters of Cincinnati,
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who have gone the way of all flesh. That's the last one. I'll turn off the lights.
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And the other group was the Sisters of St. Kazimir, a Lithuanian order, who certainly gave us a fine education
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and also put the fear of communism in us, because we got to hear firsthand some of those who had suffered
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under communism and left Lithuania and Poland. It was an excellent education.
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I remember I was an altar boy, of course. Everybody was an altar boy. I remember the announcement they made
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for the Ecumenical Council, an ecumenical council. It cost us a lot to learn that word, ecumenical.
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And I'm still unsure of its meaning. But it was 1962, and they were talking about this ecumenical council.
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It was going to be a grand and glorious thing. I went to Christian Brothers High School.
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In St. Paul. And then began realizing what the Second Vatican Council was.
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Actually, what it wasn't. What it wasn't, I should say. How people were interpreting it to be.
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And it was, in the Department of Religion, chaos.
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But that chaos was not just in the Department of Religion.
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Primarily there, you heard it there, because all of a sudden there weren't seven sacraments.
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There were no ten commandments to follow any longer.
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We were not obliged to follow them. Christ changed all that.
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So we're getting all of this in religion, which was bizarre.
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But also, in the lives of the brothers, of the Christian brothers, we saw chaos.
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And there was, you could detect tension among them, among the Christian brothers themselves.
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One community of men that we dealt with as our teachers.
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We were beginning to see the chaos and the confusion, just by living with them, by living in their community experience.
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Was there something that precipitated it? Could you tell?
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Because this is one of the questions that I think so many of us have, who were born after the Council.
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The Council is still something for us that's mysterious.
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Not only in your school, but everywhere, like across the board.
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But you were saying it wasn't the Council itself.
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And particularly so in Canada, where I live, in Quebec, it just, it went so fast and so furious.
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Of course, it's going to be much more complex than what I'm trying to get across right now.
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Maybe this is too simplistic, but I don't think so completely.
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You had, you had the world politically, socially divided into two groups.
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The non-communistic world, Canada, the United States, all of Latin America, and the communist world.
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What held them separate was the Catholic Church.
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The Church made a divide between what was happening in the world.
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The Church was the safeguard, the salvaguardia, of communism, against communism.
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All of a sudden, that was, that floodgate was open.
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And we were dialoguing with communist principles.
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Socialist principles were brought into, to, to even high school teaching.
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I don't know grade school, but I would imagine so also.
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And there was an invitation, almost a mocking invitation, that if you wanted to be with it,
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Open, open to discussing what the enemy is thinking.
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We never met any, really, except, I guess, a couple I have, older, oldsters.
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All of a sudden, if you were anti-communist, or if you were anti-socialist, you were a bigot.
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You weren't open to new ideas, to this, and the other thing.
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And it wasn't a question of being open to new ideas.
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It was being a question of being open to insanity and to chaos.
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And this reflected itself in these religious communities.
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All of a sudden, there was not, there was no discipline.
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Every priest in a community, every religious brothers, we had the Christian brothers, the sisters.
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Everyone was supposed to be acting like an individual, and everyone was supposed to be individually following his or her own conscience.
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And this comes directly out of the council, or where does this come from?
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It came from the council, because, in this sense, after the council, there was a period of great confusion.
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On the part of the bishops, let me say it even more strongly, on the part of the bishops who themselves had attended the council,
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as to how to interpret these things, what do these changes mean?
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And everyone was proclaiming his own independent thought as to what they meant.
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So you've got sisters leaving the convent, you've got priests leaving the priesthood,
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and then turning around and attacking what always was in the church.
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You had a movement in the United States, also socially speaking, I'm sure this happened in Canada,
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where all of a sudden, you were either conservative or liberal.
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You could say a conservative estimate would be this, or a liberal estimate, but they weren't camps.
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But the world began to be divided into conservative and liberal.
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They were in the parishes, they were in the school system, they were in everything.
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I'm not saying that everything before was perfect.
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And even your political views, for example, the very question of abortion.
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I can't remember the first time I heard the word abortion.
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And for most Protestants and Jews, it was a question off the...
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All of a sudden, these things are considered, and they're re-evaluated,
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Our bishops all of a sudden became afraid of their priests and of the religious,
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because they were threatening to close schools to this.
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They were threatening, if you will, the ecclesiastical status quo.
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And so you didn't have great direction from bishops.
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In these times, for example, I remember Cardinal Kroll of Philadelphia being an outstanding bishop.
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He had an opinion, and he wasn't afraid to voice it.
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He was heavily criticized, but he maintained order as long as he was around.
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When he wasn't, when he had ended, there was chaos also in Philadelphia and on the East.
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It was that period of confusion where we had bishops, of course.
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We had 2,800 bishops or so attending the Second Vatican Council.
00:11:01.820
When everything was cut and dry, when they understood how everything was supposed to be,
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how it was supposed to run, etc., things went fine.
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Because the church, the hierarchy, the laws were there to back them up.
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When all of a sudden they were told to think independently,
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there was chaos, and they didn't know how to act.
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If you talk to, I've spoken to many older bishops who retired after that,
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So there was this moment of chaos because the church had let down her guard.
00:11:42.700
You could always depend on the Catholic Church for defending liberty from non-liberty,
00:12:06.380
It's like, could murder, in some cases, be right?
00:12:09.520
Well, even today, to say something as outlandish as that,
00:12:12.680
you'd find people on this side and on that side.
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I'm trying to understand how that flows from the council.
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Is it because the council documents were ambiguous, which I've heard a lot?
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Or was there some other communication made somehow that things are up for grabs?
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First of all, I don't think most priests ever read, really read, or studied the council documents.
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And nobody challenged it because some on the other side hadn't read those documents either.
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So you could, the ambiguity of the documents of the council comes later.
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Right now, it's whatever you think those documents were.
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Nobody, nobody, you have to at least read them to be ambiguous, to find out their ambiguity.
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An otherwise pious religious saying to me, well, nobody prays the rosary anymore.
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It's whatever you wanted, you could blame the council.
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And, and so this, this liberty was just open and you had as your defense, the council.
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So, and, and bishops, their authority was challenged constantly.
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One, what I can pinpoint for you, the moment that things changed.
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Humanae Vitae, on human life, encyclical, Paul VI, came out in 1968.
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I was a student in Rome when it, when it, when it came out.
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But there was this confusion of what was the council?
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In essence, it banned artificial birth control.
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But we're talking about days before its publication, when I believe there were six priests in the Washington, D.C. area, protested.
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But they protested in front of the Nunciatur, the apostolic delegation, it was called in those days, before we had formal diplomatic relations with the Vatican, in front of the Nunciatur.
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And Cardinal Boyle of Washington suspended those priests.
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They were against Humanae Vitae, which they could not really have read.
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For that act of disobedience, the Cardinal of Washington, D.C., declared them suspended.
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Cardinal Boyle received a telephone call from Pope Paul VI, personally, forcefully asking him to apologize to those priests and to reinstate them.
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They were, the Cardinal, obedient to the Pope, apologized to them and reinstated them that it was finished.
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Discipline, especially in the American church, but in the church at large, was over.
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You could see that by protesting, you could be right.
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And even the Pope of Rome would be on your side.
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The man who wrote the document, Humanae Vitae, that encyclical, even he would say, you know, you could be right.
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It opened a Pandora box that has really never been closed.
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That's super interesting, because that takes us sort of beyond the council.
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The council somehow creates this atmosphere of questioning, openness, ambiguity, you could say.
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So I guess that maybe can be due to what Ratzinger called, or Benedict called, the council of the media, what they got from TV.
00:17:07.240
And that's where most priests got their theological information, Time magazine.
00:17:13.720
So this is like, they have their own spin on things where, okay, we can all question now and be happy.
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And then that morphs into these, you said six, five or six?
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Okay, so six priests protesting in the nunciature.
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So what could have possessed, and I use that word specifically, what could have possessed the Pope, Paul VI, to say that to Cardinal Boyle?
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The same thing that would possess a general in a war during the battle to call back his troops and say, maybe that was a wrong move.
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What people saw this as, and the clergy was quick to pick up on this, the Pope himself is doubting.
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He's doubting what he just signed into law, or what he established in the encyclical.
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Well, this gave rise to a revolution of openness.
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Priests would spend hours and hours and hours in a confessional.
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And all of a sudden, not all of a sudden, but it was a topic of the day, women were beginning to be upset with the load they had in life.
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They have, and then it came down, we have two children, we can't afford a third, right?
00:19:09.180
However, you've got these priests listening to these women and men, and fathers would have the same thing, with real complaints.
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How can we give our children what we want them to have in life?
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By having more children, we decrease the possibility of success in their lives.
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Well, you've got these, and a lot of psychological problems also with women, quite honestly, who could not bear having more children.
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And these people are coming to confession saying, why can't we use artificial contraception?
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When you're a well-intentioned priest trying to counsel and give advice, it's very easy to sympathize on the wrong side of the issue and not present the right side.
00:20:10.260
Because there is a right side, which is acceptable to both sides.
00:20:16.680
Natural family planning, for example, existed, always existed.
00:20:19.940
I remember it was called, it was called, the rhythm method was mocked openly.
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It was called Vatican roulette, Vatican roulette.
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But there were ways, and in natural family planning, there are ways that are specifically mentioned and explained for people's education, and they work perfectly well.
00:20:50.620
There was also another confusion with that issue that, and I remember this, priests were counseling people, were counseling women to, to have no qualms about using artificial contraception.
00:21:07.960
We're talking about the pill, the famous pill, so that they could have longer, they could build up energies to have children.
00:21:15.240
They could, right, they could replenish their, their physical and emotional and whatever supplies of energy to be able to have children.
00:21:23.860
Well, this was, this was diabolical because it wasn't, it certainly wasn't for that reason.
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There was all of this ambiguity, again, it's beginning, on that moral question.
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That moral question opened, as you know very well, in LifeSite, it opened, it opened the gate to horrendous other questions.
00:21:51.800
Had you brought that up at that time that it was, it was going to be possible, euthanasia would be a consequence of this, you would be laughed to scorn.
00:21:59.800
I remember early, even in the, in the pro-life movement, and it's only, you know, 25 years ago, we would say that, you know, that obviously abortion is going to naturally lead to euthanasia.
00:22:14.180
But it was the same with, with, with homosexual unions leading to marriage.
00:22:22.820
The whole reason why we're having this is so we won't have to have homosexual marriage.
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Well, I remember, I remember the main argument for, for artificial contraception.
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And notice that I keep saying artificial contraception was so that you could have perfect children.
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You could have the, the amount of children you, you, you thought was right.
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And you could give those children the best, finest education.
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You could give them everything materially that they needed in the world.
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So what, what, what artificial contraception promised was perfection.
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You would only have the children that you could, you could really handle or you could, right?
00:23:08.780
It's, it's, we're not going to get into that whole thing, but Europe today is, is practically futureless.
00:23:15.460
Because they have no population, the, the, the importation of other peoples from around the world is almost a necessity for, for economies to go.
00:23:27.060
It's, it's upset everything, but it promised perfection.
00:23:36.140
And you were going to have the right children and just, just those children.
00:23:41.240
And then we would come to the, we've come, we've come to the point is the doctor would say to you, um, madam, I think that that child is, uh, is not developing correctly.
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Um, would you like your loved one killed on Saturday or can we wait until Monday for the euthanasia?
00:24:03.620
Uh, these were, I'm telling you unthinkable questions.
00:24:09.880
And if you brought them up, if, if you thought of the unthinkable, you were ridiculed harshly by Catholic theologians.
00:24:18.520
Also, you had Charlie Curran, uh, you had, uh, uh, uh, Bernard Herring in Rome, uh, all of, all of these people rewriting moral theology.
00:24:28.760
Yeah, there was a lot of confusion, but people took advantage of that confusion to bring it in one direction.
00:24:38.160
That ridicule of the eventualities, which thinking people suspected, do you think that ridicule was intentional because they knew where it was going, but they were trying to hide it?
00:24:50.660
Or do you think they honestly, I think, I think a lot of them honestly believed that.
00:24:57.360
At that stage, they're looking, there are many ways of looking at a problem.
00:25:04.220
You can look at the short term or the long term.
00:25:06.800
There are proximate causes and there are remote causes.
00:25:15.440
They were looking at what, what, what, what this could happen, what this could affect today.
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How it could make me, and this is very important because modern pop psychology came around.
00:25:33.100
Our, our, our poor religious sisters were, were filled with this nonsense.
00:25:40.820
You're a slave to be teaching these children in grade schools, to be taking care of people
00:25:45.820
in Catholic hospitals, uh, and orphanages and this, that, and the other thing.
00:25:54.240
I remember just, just in parentheses, we had an orphanage in Mexico.
00:25:58.660
The new mother superior and mother general came from Rome and convinced, was trying to
00:26:04.040
convince our sisters who did, they were the mothers to all of these children.
00:26:14.900
We'll get, we'll get people, we'll get some other system.
00:26:17.320
And you should be working in a pharmacy and you should be working, selling flowers at the
00:26:22.680
Insane ideas, insane ideas, which, which caused tremendous confusion in an otherwise peaceful
00:26:34.740
This is what happened also in the general elections.
00:26:38.080
First of all, you had, again, maybe this was done.
00:26:42.540
I hope it was done with the best of intentions, but all bishops had to retire at 75.
00:26:54.160
You had bishops who were almost a hundred years old, right?
00:26:58.020
But he was, he was the patriarch of his diocese.
00:27:02.500
In certain circumstances, they were unable to mentally.
00:27:06.120
They had a staff of, of able-bodied men who had studied and knew how to run things.
00:27:12.060
And you didn't have to do a lot of thinking because the rules were clear.
00:27:18.480
All of a sudden, the bishops had to retire at 75.
00:27:23.660
All of a sudden, mother superiors and father superiors of communities, even the Jesuits,
00:27:30.880
for example, their leaders, their superiors were elected for life.
00:27:37.200
Not for eight years, not for six years, for life.
00:27:42.320
Pastors in churches would have, for example, father so-and-so is the pastor of the Holy Family Church.
00:27:47.920
Well, father so-and-so was there for life when he was named pastor.
00:27:53.600
So you knew who you were going to deal with for the rest of your life.
00:27:58.780
And so now we've got these short-term things and we need a new election.
00:28:06.460
Remember how much you hated the discipline of that one?
00:28:09.120
Well, here's a fresh, brand new face with, with new ideas.
00:28:14.460
And it's not to plug the book, but murder in the 33rd degree.
00:28:17.460
I explained how Cardinal Baggio, who is in charge of naming bishops,
00:28:23.240
all of the bishops in the world, relished the whole thing of bishops turning 75.
00:28:28.020
They were the, almost the majority had already turned 75.
00:28:33.060
Overnight, we had to name new bishops and they were not well named, many of them.
00:28:42.180
Yes, there was, there's no, there's no question.
00:28:44.620
Anyone who, anyone who denies that is, well, sympathetic to Freemasonry, I suppose.
00:28:53.080
So at this time, when the new rule is implemented, that 75 is a retirement,
00:29:00.140
you have a glut of retirees like you've never had before.
00:29:04.660
In the whole, in the whole history of the church.
00:29:09.640
Do you have any, any accounting of how many we're talking about?
00:29:12.060
Oh, I don't know, but the majority, I think he replaced, who is Jadot, was the papal,
00:29:17.880
the apostolic delegate, which now we call the Nuncio in the United States.
00:29:23.800
Jadot gave an interview to Time Magazine, of course, which was everyone's authority for
00:29:31.380
When he retired, he said in the interview, I remember reading it, that his greatest achievement
00:29:36.760
was having named 70, 75 or 78 liberal bishops to the United States.
00:29:47.280
Yes, just in the United States, in his time as Nuncio.
00:29:51.000
So this, this, but Bajo is in charge of the entire world.
00:29:54.400
All of the candidates, you would have papal nuncios all over the world, sending in a tersier
00:30:03.600
And then Bajo would choose one of them and then name the bishop in the name of the Pope,
00:30:11.920
Well, the Holy Father doesn't even know so-and-so.
00:30:15.340
He did an investigation on them, but they were all liberals.
00:30:19.880
I'm not saying they were all Freemasons like he was, but he certainly had the mentality
00:30:27.840
And almost overnight, you had this conflict between bishops, conservatives, the old school,
00:30:37.360
and the new progressives who thought clearly and openly, and they were really in defense
00:30:46.920
And in Canada, in Canada, as you know, unfortunately, you know very well, they went wild with this.
00:30:53.080
You look at French Canada, what a fantastic model of the church that was overnight.
00:31:01.620
So finally, there's an explanation, actually a demarcation point with Boyle's decision from
00:31:08.640
But then this very quick switch, because it was a mass retirement, and then a Mason is
00:31:18.440
And you wonder, why are we having problems today?
00:31:24.900
Well, it actually explains for one of the first times, for me anyway, the idea of how
00:31:32.480
this happens immediately, because that made no sense.
00:31:36.480
You would point back to the council, and somehow it's something with the council documents,
00:31:42.040
But again, as you said, nobody really read them.
00:31:45.120
Media council provides what they think it is, creates confusion, and then the confusion
00:31:53.500
But then the hierarchy is sort of transformed overnight by the Bajo replacement.
00:32:01.960
You had everything fell, everything that was established order.
00:32:07.600
And I'm not, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it was perfect, because nothing is perfect,
00:32:12.220
and it was run by sometimes weak, and even sometimes corrupt men.
00:32:27.240
And we ended up with, rather than bishops and pastors, CEOs, who have no opinion on matters.
00:32:40.120
Many of our bishops, I would say almost most, is that right?
00:32:45.840
Where they won't give a theological opinion, or a pastoral solution to something.
00:32:52.380
Or their pastoral solution is a business negotiation just wrapped in a little bit of theology, enough.
00:33:05.140
The question, the basic question, we get back to this always,
00:33:11.840
And that almost causes most people to smile, because obviously they're not.
00:33:20.580
Obviously, it certainly doesn't seem like they are.
00:33:27.360
It happened over a period maybe of 10 years after the council, and continued.
00:33:33.620
When you had Paul VI, when you had the Pope himself, almost reneging an encyclical that was given out just days before.
00:33:49.100
The history of that encyclical is fascinating, too.
00:34:02.460
And he decided that, I think, to accommodate everyone.
00:34:12.160
Well, to do that, he destroyed his own authority.
00:34:17.340
His authority was lessened greatly because of that.
00:34:21.240
And just so you understand the psychological effect that it had on him as a man,
00:34:26.280
he never wrote another encyclical for the rest of his pontificate.
00:34:30.680
Father, you also experienced something concomitantly with this.
00:34:48.380
He would go around in various countries and work.
00:34:51.260
And he described to me how, when they changed the mass, he lost a great deal.
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Because he would be in Beirut and he would be all over the world in foreign tongues.
00:35:06.360
But there were some places he went where he didn't even speak the local tongue.
00:35:09.640
But he always felt at home, he said, because he always had the mass.
00:35:13.380
And he could pray with the locals who, they couldn't speak, but they knew together, they could pray together and commune together.
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And he felt very, for him, it might have been an extreme thing.
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So you, too, experienced this as a younger man.
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So that you were, what age for you did it change?
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Those were the years that, if people recall, or if they don't recall, I'll inform them.
00:36:04.680
A priest saying mass on the altar, which was turned in the direction of the people, not in the direction of God.
00:36:27.520
He said, if I could redo my career rather than getting into construction, I'd come back as a printer and just get the rights to the Catholic Church in the United States.
00:36:44.280
And you had these pamphlets and this and all on the altar because the mass was changing every week.
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Every week you would go back and there was something different.
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I'll tell you, I'm 15 years old at this time, right?
00:37:18.220
We had a Maronite parish not far from us and joined the choir and became active in that parish, Holy Family, on the west side of St. Paul.
00:37:30.100
That made more sense to me, singing and praying in Arabic than, or Syriac, I should say, right?
00:37:38.320
But, but that made more sense to me because of its stability than every other week going back to a, and you had, it's so unfortunate because we, there was no leadership.
00:37:50.420
You see, the leadership was in flux and there were no real norms.
00:38:07.280
And some of the younger priests already saw mass as theater.
00:38:18.540
What can I invent for next Sunday to keep people's attention?
00:38:21.620
Well, why didn't you just stop and ask yourself for 2000 years?
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It was kept by presenting them something solid in New York City.
00:38:43.700
Your father experiences too, traveling and speaking many languages.
00:38:53.940
All of a sudden now, every experience was a new experience.
00:39:00.120
And not only was it new for a man who was traveling like your father internationally.
00:39:04.840
It was new for every parishioner who never left his hometown.
00:39:08.160
And it said, it said that what we considered, and most Catholics didn't consider, most Catholics
00:39:17.120
knew that there were certain things that were unchangeable.
00:39:27.380
Christ said that, and St. Paul says that, our Lord Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.
00:39:38.120
All of these things that were unchangeable are being changed.
00:39:45.180
Psychologically and spiritually, what this does to a people is, I don't know how you can measure it.
00:39:53.220
I really don't know how you can honestly measure it, but it's devastating, because it takes the certainty out of belief.
00:40:00.880
It's hard enough to believe, and especially when people really question their faith and come to struggle with it,
00:40:08.200
and they come to the conclusion that there is a God, that there is a church, that all of these things are true.
00:40:13.260
And then to pull the carpet out from under them, and say, rethink everything, and it's whatever you decide.
00:40:35.620
But the lack of direction, the lack of authority in the church, the lack of understanding what things were.
00:40:50.740
I couldn't see openness to discussing this or that or the other thing.
00:40:57.220
One of the things that I remember Monsignor Schuller.
00:41:00.020
Later on, I discovered that I didn't have to become a Maronite.
00:41:02.900
But I could have remained a Catholic, a Roman, a Latin Catholic, let me put it that way.
00:41:08.380
But I didn't realize that in my own city of St. Paul, we had St. Agnes Parish.
00:41:14.180
And then later on, St. Augustine Parish, which was my parish, which became bastions of Orthodoxy.
00:41:21.240
If this is happening in my parish, my home parish, this is what's happening to everyone.
00:41:25.840
And everyone would come to school on Monday morning, and the Christian brothers would ask us,
00:41:31.620
And you had to report these new things, because the newer, the better.
00:41:40.240
The mass stopped being, this is absolutely true, the mass stopped being the sacrifice of Calvary.
00:41:58.420
There was a Jesuit that I had in Rome, Father Navone, who I loved.
00:42:06.980
He used to call the United States, though he had lived in Italy for 42 years or something.
00:42:12.180
He called the United States, the United States of entertainment.
00:42:15.060
Never the United States of America, of entertainment.
00:42:20.720
And everything has to keep changing, and more outrageous, and more novel.
00:42:33.240
And people who were very devout were the most confused.
00:42:37.460
Because they were told that their devotion was ridiculous.
00:42:40.800
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00:43:14.980
The parish that you mentioned, St. Agnes and the other,
00:43:29.840
they had the Novus Ordo, but you wouldn't know it.
00:43:45.100
Monsignor Richard Schuller, one of my favorite people in life.
00:43:51.100
Oh, there's so many stories I could tell you about.
00:43:52.780
His parish gave the greatest amount of vocations
00:43:58.380
And the Sarah Club used to give an award every year
00:44:01.280
for the parish with most vocations, priestly vocations.
00:44:16.160
He would have three, four men ordained every year
00:44:22.500
And they gave him, he said, he put it this way,
00:45:01.640
if you can imagine, this is how ridiculous things came,
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of not celebrating the Eucharist with sufficient joy.
00:45:12.300
Well, his auntie joy was infectious, obviously.
00:45:33.580
He said, maybe we do need a renovation of the church,
00:45:41.260
Well, his idea of a renovation was to put in marble
00:45:54.360
He put in an elevator also for the handicapped.
00:46:11.000
St. Agnes, if you ever get a chance to go to St. Paul,
00:46:14.520
And Monsignor Schuller also was an outstanding musician.