The John-Henry Westen Show - Inspiring husband and wife with 7 kids are bringing Christ to a faithless nation

00:00:00.680 Welcome to this episode of the John Henry Weston Show.

00:00:03.280 Coming to you from Rome, I am very pleased to have with me good friends of mine from Estonia.

00:00:09.320 A Catholic couple from Estonia with seven children who are probably one in a million.

00:00:15.200 Estonia has about a million people, so stay tuned. This is going to be very interesting.

00:00:30.000 Let's begin as we always do with the Son of the Cross.

00:00:45.120 In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

00:00:50.080 Varro Vugled and Helena, welcome to LifeSite News. This is the John Henry Weston Show.

00:00:55.580 I'm very pleased to be here. Thank you.

00:00:57.000 May God bless you. They have come to Rome for the Acces Ordinata, this demonstration to stand for the faith, for the truth of the faith.

00:01:09.460 But let's start learning, first of all, about yourselves.

00:01:12.320 If you can tell us a little bit about yourselves and about your homeland in Estonia, that would be great.

00:01:18.800 Well, Estonia is a very small country in northern or eastern Europe.

00:01:22.820 It's bordering Latvia and Russia, and we have one of our neighbors, Finland.

00:01:28.320 So it's really the corner of Europe.

00:01:30.440 And what is, of course, very characteristic of Estonia these days is that after 500 years of Protestantism and 50 years of communism,

00:01:39.700 hardly anything is left of Catholic culture in Estonia.

00:01:43.160 So the Catholic population is about 0.1% of the society.

00:01:49.620 We have literally less than 4,000 Catholics living in Estonia, in a country which has a population of 1.2 million.

00:01:56.980 So from the Catholic perspective, it's really a wasteland, we could say. 0.90

00:02:03.020 But nevertheless, you know, God's grace operates everywhere.

00:02:05.340 So it's our task to do something about this situation, and that's what we are trying to do.

00:02:12.520 When it comes to us, then, well, we are a married couple with seven children.

00:02:19.260 Our youngest is about eight months.

00:02:21.100 Our oldest is 16.

00:02:22.080 And I'm a lawyer by profession.

00:02:26.560 Helena has been studying philology, Estonian philology, and has been teaching in the school also moral philosophy.

00:02:36.120 I myself worked in the university for a number of years teaching the philosophy of law.

00:02:40.480 But now, for the past three years, I've only been working for our foundation, which is about defending Catholic or natural law principles in the society.

00:02:50.440 So that's in a nutshell.

00:02:52.500 How difficult is it to be?

00:02:54.960 Is it common to have large families in Estonia?

00:02:59.960 I wouldn't say so, because actually I've been complaining to everybody here that basically I have no one to learn from,

00:03:07.160 because I am the biggest Catholic family.

00:03:08.820 The mother of the biggest Catholic family in Estonia.

00:03:12.040 And, you know, when it comes to homeschooling, I've homeschooled my firstborn for four years.

00:03:19.600 And then I was the only Catholic homeschooling family.

00:03:23.560 So, you see, we have some community, but not as much as you do in the States and Canada, perhaps.

00:03:34.420 So that's why I use Instagram, mom blogs, Catholic mom blogs, basically.

00:03:40.580 That's my community, my second community.

00:03:43.380 So that's where I get my information about this big family life.

00:03:47.340 Are there lots of large families in Estonia at all?

00:03:50.240 Are there any?

00:03:52.000 Not really.

00:03:53.020 I mean, there are any.

00:03:54.080 There are some, of course, but not among people we know, really.

00:03:57.880 There is one family we know who has more than 10 children.

00:04:03.100 But apart from that, when we talk about families of our age, you know, parents of our age,

00:04:08.320 then we don't know, I think, anyone who would have even more than five children, I think.

00:04:14.280 So it is very uncommon to have a family of seven children, even though, as we have become friends with people from the United States,

00:04:22.300 we see that having seven children is basically like a medium family in Catholic traditional circles.

00:04:28.740 Now, you have both cottoned on to the faith in a very strong way.

00:04:34.000 Did you both grow up Catholic?

00:04:35.320 How did you come to such a vibrant faith?

00:04:37.560 Well, we can only hope to have vibrant faith and we're working on it.

00:04:42.960 You do from this.

00:04:44.700 But, well, we weren't born into a Catholic family.

00:04:49.920 Out of our generation, almost no one was born into a Catholic family.

00:04:54.280 And that's really striking, I think, to many people.

00:04:56.580 It has been striking to ourselves to realize this, that in our generation, almost no one was born into a Catholic family.

00:05:03.620 So at the end of the 80s, at the end of the time of communism, there were hardly any Estonian families in the Catholic Church.

00:05:12.540 The Catholic Church in Estonia was referred to as the Polish Church.

00:05:16.240 So only old Polish ladies went to the Catholic Church, really. 0.75

00:05:20.440 And it was only at the beginning of the 80s, end of the 70s, beginning of the 80s, that the first Estonian young Catholics, young people, started converting to the Catholic faith.

00:05:32.320 Through music?

00:05:33.180 Through music, mostly, yes. Medieval, old music.

00:05:36.640 And it was my godfather, Taivo Niitvägi, who was a friend of my mother also.

00:05:44.820 And due to his conversion, my mother also converted to the Catholic faith.

00:05:49.380 So although I was baptized in the Lutheran Church, my mother took me to the Catholic Church before I knew myself, really.

00:05:57.040 So as far as I can remember, I've always been a member of the Catholic Church, which is a great blessing, of course.

00:06:02.040 But the story of Helena's conversion is quite different.

00:06:05.500 Well, I would like to come back to this conversion for music.

00:06:09.580 This godfather, Taivo, who's actually like a spiritual godfather for me also.

00:06:14.720 He actually, he was studying in the music academy in Estonia, as was the Soviet times.

00:06:21.040 And they were taught that there was no music, basically, like no serious music before Bach.

00:06:26.480 So, and then there was this one professor who said, come to my place and I will speak to you.

00:06:32.920 I will tell you what there was before Bach.

00:06:35.200 So, basically, we can thank this one man who told them that there was religious music, masses being written, and explain it all.

00:06:44.420 So, he converted, basically, through music and took us all along.

00:06:51.980 But my conversion story is actually through, it's strongly connected to Varo's mother, Kerstinigesen, who is kind of, what should I say, like an educational guru in Estonia, kind of.

00:07:07.800 But she has established this Christian school and along with a small Catholic private school.

00:07:15.200 And we were the first generation there.

00:07:18.840 So, she basically decided that she will not send her son to the Soviet school system in the 80s.

00:07:26.020 When I needed to go to school.

00:07:27.160 And she and a few other Catholic friends, Taiva Nitvägi, again, and a few more, they came together and they started discussing, like, how should it be, what should it be like.

00:07:40.340 And I went to that school.

00:07:43.360 I was a couple of years younger than he was.

00:07:46.380 We know each other from the age of four and six.

00:07:50.120 So, and I went to that school and the first song that I learned in that school was Ave Maria in Latin.

00:07:56.640 And I'm not kidding you.

00:07:57.580 It was the Soviet Times.

00:07:58.520 It was 1989.

00:08:01.100 And that's the first song I learned.

00:08:04.280 And I was not a Catholic.

00:08:05.360 I had no idea that it was going to lead us here.

00:08:11.320 Yeah.

00:08:12.060 And, again, it's from music.

00:08:14.180 And this school has kind of provided a gate to the Catholic Church for many through different subjects, actually.

00:08:24.300 Art, music, literature.

00:08:27.320 And the community is growing, actually, through this school, mainly.

00:08:31.780 What led you, though, to go from, what were you before?

00:08:35.580 I was Lutheran, I guess, because my grandmother converted to, she was baptized, actually, when she was born.

00:08:44.800 And, but then it was the Soviet Times.

00:08:48.820 She was, she said that she was kind of a communist when she was 16.

00:08:52.460 And then, when, in the 80s, everybody started thinking about the faith again.

00:08:58.940 And she was a Lutheran.

00:09:00.540 I was also reading my children's Bible, and I was trying to, I even tried to levitate.

00:09:05.840 But, at one point, my faith was really big, actually, and strong.

00:09:10.680 I hoped I could fly like Jesus to the heaven, just if my faith was strong.

00:09:15.980 I tried to jump off a table.

00:09:18.100 And it didn't succeed.

00:09:22.720 Yeah, and actually, you were baptized also as a Lutheran, weren't you?

00:09:27.380 So.

00:09:28.160 Well, I was baptized as a Lutheran, but what people, again, probably don't understand is that

00:09:32.840 after 500 years of Protestantism and 50 years of communism, you are born into a completely broken society. 0.71

00:09:39.820 And it is really sad, and even many people who have converted to the Catholic faith, they realize that it is actually tragic, the situation we are in and where we are coming from.

00:09:49.920 So, I mean, we ourselves are part of it.

00:09:53.880 We are, in a way, products of this brokenness, in the sense that my mother was married before she married to my father.

00:10:03.200 My father was married before, so they are both, so to say, married for the second time.

00:10:07.680 So, and although my mother converted to the Catholic Church, Catholic faith already in the 80s, she has been going to the Catholic Church for 30 years without receiving communion once and repenting, you know, the mistakes she has made before converting to Catholicism.

00:10:23.920 And for me, this has always been a great source of inspiration and respect, because what we see among the modernists and the liberals is that they want the church to change because they have made mistakes in life and they want their mistakes to be accommodated into the church.

00:10:39.600 So, the faith has to be changed in order for you to feel better in the church.

00:10:44.840 But my mother is exactly the, I mean, an example of the exact opposite mindset and attitude, you know. 1.00

00:10:51.440 She knows that mistakes are mistakes, and it's not the church that needs to change, it's yourself who needs to repent and change.

00:11:01.200 So, this, for me, has been always a very, very impressive and very humbling lesson, I think.

00:11:08.540 Yeah, I would like to add that she's praying a daily rosary, you know, she's living a Catholic life as far as she can.

00:11:16.980 I really think she's a very holy woman, so she's really a good source of inspiration to many.

00:11:22.640 Yeah, indeed, she's now babysitting our five children at home, although she's actually still the leader of the school and the small St. Michael's school.

00:11:33.320 Incredible examples that bring you to faith.

00:11:35.720 Now, with a large family, you've been struggling to live the Catholic life in Estonia, where this is very difficult.

00:11:42.580 No community, really, at least if you're own age, we're in the same sort of similar situation.

00:11:47.400 And yet, you're a great fighter for Estonia, for the faith in Estonia.

00:11:53.080 You love your nation.

00:11:54.920 You've got a show.

00:11:56.420 We're going to show a clip of that, but why don't you tell us about your show?

00:12:01.020 Well, yes, I mean, we have been very much inspired by LifeSite in what we do in Estonia.

00:12:05.820 So, you know, we could say that we have a small, small LifeSite operated in Estonia, of course, under a completely different banner.

00:12:13.300 But I think you have been really a big source of inspiration for us in what we do in Estonia.

00:12:18.120 So, just to get, just to give truth a podium, you know, just to have at least one medium where Catholic principles, Christian principles,

00:12:29.040 and natural law principles could be defended and promoted openly without reservations and without any sense of, I don't know, embarrassment or sort of insecurity.

00:12:42.400 So, to a large extent, what we do is similar to what you do, with a difference, of course, that we operate in a society which is completely not Catholic.

00:12:53.880 So, we have to be able to somehow speak the language of which the society understands.

00:12:59.660 And although we never, of course, hide the fact that we are Catholics, we have to be able to present our arguments in ways which cannot be refuted by those who don't share our belief system also.

00:13:10.980 So, yes, the portal we run is called Objective.

00:13:15.820 We have news, we have commentaries, and we also put a lot of emphasis to producing video material just to discuss temporary problems from the Catholic and Christian and natural law perspective.

00:13:30.660 So, that's what we do on a constant basis.

00:13:34.380 Now, I found it very interesting that you've recently garnered some political attention.

00:13:41.420 If you would tell the story about the, was it a minister or politician coming to your studio, so-called studio, and describe your studio, if you will.

00:13:49.780 So, I think it's really inspirational because a lot of people are trying or thinking about doing some little effort that's able to get out there, and your little effort really has affected your country right now.

00:14:04.580 Yes, I think it's safe to say that our portal has become the main conservative Christian media outlet in Estonia.

00:14:12.900 So, with the little resources we have had, we've managed to do quite a lot, and the story you referred to, yes, it was somewhat funny in the sense that I invited the minister of foreign affairs to our studio to have an interview with him.

00:14:27.180 And, yes, I've known him for years, and we got along well, so he came to the studio, he had never been there, and then he walked into the room, and he looked around, and he asked me quite honestly,

00:14:39.000 and that's it, that's all you have? I said, well, yes, that's all we have.

00:14:43.560 So, in a way, the story is inspirational in the sense that very often you can do very much with very little resources when your aims are correct.

00:14:54.760 It looks so impressive. I have to tell you, a lot of what we're doing was inspired by you.

00:15:00.060 I mean, when we saw what you guys were doing, and you described it to me, I thought, whoa, that's incredible.

00:15:05.420 So, it was, anyway, it's a real blessing, and I can't understand a thing of what you're saying on your show, of course, because it's all in Estonian, but it certainly looks amazing.

00:15:17.100 Let's talk about the, why you're here now. So, you brought a couple of your kids to Rome. Why did you come, and really, what was the Acces Ordinata about for you?

00:15:30.940 Well, the Acces Ordinata, first of all, was about the profession of our faith. I think, first of all, that's what it was.

00:15:41.700 It was a public profession of fidelity to the doctrine of the Catholic Church, to the tradition of the Catholic Church, and to the majesty of the Catholic Church.

00:15:51.260 So, that was the main reason we came here. It was also the main reason why my best friend and colleague, Markus Järvi, just traveled here for the Acces Ordinata,

00:16:01.380 is to stand there with our friends, with our allies, and to give testimony of the fidelity to the tradition and the doctrine of the Church.

00:16:11.900 So, in this time of great confusion, of this time where errors are really spreading, not only in the world, but also in the Church,

00:16:20.680 I think it is quite obvious to many people now it's no secret anymore, and we shouldn't actually be afraid to say it openly and loudly.

00:16:30.960 It is very important for us to not only in our hearts and in our spirit to be faithful, but also publicly show that we are not afraid to say,

00:16:43.740 even against a lot of hostility, that we will not give up our fidelity to what we know to be the truth,

00:16:51.400 which is, of course, the central pillar of the Catholic Church.

00:16:56.840 So, this is the main reason, really.

00:16:59.900 I mean, I suppose we all came for this reason, but it has to be said very openly that we have an obligation these days,

00:17:06.120 as traditional faithful Catholics, to speak out against the errors and the confusion,

00:17:12.180 as Cardinal Burke also told us yesterday, that this is a moral obligation,

00:17:16.600 not only of cardinals, not only of bishops, but also of the laity.

00:17:22.040 Of course, we have to always remain respectful towards the Petrine office and cardinals and bishops,

00:17:31.060 but nevertheless, our first obligation is that we owe to the truth, really.

00:17:40.660 So, as we know from the example of St. Thomas More, I think that's quite obvious, but I don't know, what would you say?

00:17:49.660 Where did I come?

00:17:52.120 As we discussed before, a couple of nights before, that Rome is actually a huge part of our family life.

00:18:01.740 Thirteen years ago, when we first came to Rome, it was actually the beginning of kind of a conversion or reversion.

00:18:12.740 We're taking our faith more seriously, walking on the same streets where Peter and Paul did, visiting the catacombs.

00:18:20.760 And we were, back then, we were expecting our second child, our son, and he's in Rome with us now, so we kind of had this reunion.

00:18:30.720 And also, he met his, like, main ally and friend and colleague, Marcus Jarvi, whom he mentioned, they met, they actually met in Rome.

00:18:41.640 Back then, he was studying to become a priest, he was in the seminary in Rome, and we, I knew him, kind of, I've heard, I had heard that he's studying here.

00:18:50.040 So we arranged a meeting with him, and we actually met on St. Peter's Square for the first time.

00:18:56.760 And he took us to St. Peter's, to visit St. Peter's home, go to Mass in Vatican.

00:19:03.260 So that's, that's our first visit.

00:19:06.140 We climbed the Skala Sancta also together.

00:19:08.800 Yeah, I can add that it's actually really a wonderful story that my best friend and my closest ally in Estonia, with whom we have built up our foundation and our portal also,

00:19:17.360 So, it is true that although we are both from Estonia, we met for the first time on St. Peter's Square, early in the morning, 6.30, I think, before entering the Basilica.

00:19:29.120 And when we walked the streets of Strastevere, I remember us discussing that we really need to start doing something in Estonia also to defend our ideals, to defend the ideals of our Catholic faith and so on.

00:19:42.200 But it was only years later, when he came back to Estonia, having realized that he didn't have the priestly vocation, after all, that we started collaborating and really building up the counter-revolutionary movement in Estonia.

00:19:56.820 So, it was an interesting and beautiful story, I think.

00:20:00.120 There's actually this, this one moment, we were kind of like all the three of us, we were revisiting all those moments that we had together and I kind of remember all of it, all of it.

00:20:10.140 And we were just discussing with Marcus, when we had the seven churches pilgrimage, on this street, you said this and that, you said, on these streets, St. Peter and Paul, they walked, you can touch the stones, you see.

00:20:21.180 And then we visited his seminary and under the seminary, there was this basement, where they had kind of exposed the original street level.

00:20:33.180 And he said, you can touch it, it's probably the stones that they actually walked on, you know, it's like three meters below now.

00:20:39.720 And I remember that moment was it, like, okay, this is it, this is the faith, it's here, it's here, it's in Rome, I can now touch it.

00:20:48.140 I've been, you know, believing, blessed are those who believe and they don't see it, right?

00:20:52.100 I'm here now, I see it now, kind of like eyes opening.

00:20:55.760 And I remember we discussed that it's like, you know, St. Thomas sticking the finger in our Lord's side.

00:21:01.540 And this time, it was quite symbolic, actually, that we went to the church to actually see the finger that touched our Lord's side.

00:21:13.660 So, it was kind of like closing the story.

00:21:17.200 And it's also interesting in the sense that, yes, about four months later, four, three months later, our son was born in August, in the month of August, his name is also August, after St. Augustine.

00:21:33.040 And when I really had the moment where I had sort of a conversion of heart, in the sense that I was holding him in my lap after he was born, the doctors were still taking care of you.

00:21:48.100 I was walking in the corridor, and all of a sudden I realized that now something really needs to be done.

00:21:53.980 I had tears in my eyes, I remember, because I understood that while I'm walking here in this corridor with holding my son in my lap, perhaps some other children are being killed one floor below.

00:22:05.000 Because in Estonia, it's a sad situation that you don't have a single hospital where you could go to give birth to your child where they wouldn't also perform abortions.

00:22:15.920 So, absolutely all the sort of, we call them birth houses, it's probably not the correct English expression, but maternity wards, yes, are also the centers of abortion.

00:22:26.300 So, at least that's much better in the United States, as I understand, that you have abortion clinics separately, that you don't actually go to an abortion clinic.

00:22:36.220 So, this was a horrible realization for me, and I really remember that.

00:22:41.020 That's when I was decided that, okay, we really need to do something about the situation in Estonia, too.

00:22:47.160 I think it was, like, simultaneously with this story of coming to Rome and actually realizing that we had to take our faith really seriously, and our son being born.

00:22:58.900 I also had, like, problems with my father, actually, who's now married for the fourth time, married.

00:23:06.140 Yeah, so I was, and I'm still working on it, like, how to kind of convert him.

00:23:11.900 He's kind of like a living proof of this Soviet legacy. 0.94

00:23:17.540 He's a professor of mathematics.

00:23:19.900 He's a wise guy, he should be.

00:23:22.220 So, I went to our bishop, who's a faithful man, in a way, and I asked, what can I do?

00:23:28.760 And he said, start reading so that you can defend your faith, because we had these huge arguments with my father, you know.

00:23:34.260 And I could say, oh, well, that's what I believe anyway.

00:23:38.800 Anyway, so he gave two names in the beginning.

00:23:42.940 It's like, you have to start somewhere.

00:23:44.980 So, it's maybe G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, and C.S. Lewis.

00:23:51.200 He gave us two names, and then we started ordering books.

00:23:55.900 And I remember, for a while, we were living in Finland, and there are those little holes in the door for which they post, you know, letters and small parcels.

00:24:06.800 So, I remember when Summa came.

00:24:09.760 It didn't fit.

00:24:11.800 It didn't fit.

00:24:13.960 It's not a conformistic thing.

00:24:17.180 But now we have a huge library of classical Catholic literature.

00:24:20.560 And we have been ordering all those from, you know, the United States and the U.K. because, you know, we don't have Estonian classical Catholic literature.

00:24:30.560 We don't have it.

00:24:31.440 We don't even have a catechism in Estonian.

00:24:34.500 We have a compendium.

00:24:36.300 That's it.

00:24:36.680 So, you've been sort of a heroic Catholic family in a time when it's difficult to be a Catholic family.

00:24:46.300 But I remember, you know, growing up and having our kids, we're a little bit older than you, and we still got some young ones.

00:24:55.400 But when our top kids now who are in their 20s were young, we had, yes, some issues with our, you know, priests, sometimes bishops, and so on in Canada,

00:25:06.920 who weren't necessarily all that supportive of pro-life, who might not even have been all that supportive of large families.

00:25:13.360 But you always had the Pope.

00:25:15.880 John Paul II was very much a defender of life and encourager of large families.

00:25:22.160 And, you know, we were, I was able to meet him back in 93, and just, it was amazing.

00:25:29.260 And he was always such a support.

00:25:30.640 When LifeSite started, it was always, well, your priest or your bishop might not agree, but the Pope's got your back.

00:25:39.260 You've had a very similar experience, at least vis-a-vis Benedict and now Pope Francis.

00:25:49.560 You can describe a little bit of that, both from a family perspective, but also from your ministry or from your apostolate.

00:25:55.700 But what, you know, what it's been like, I don't know if you were already running your apostolate before Pope Francis came in or what that was doing,

00:26:04.080 but did you notice an effect, a change from one to the other, or has it basically been fairly similar?

00:26:11.260 No, no, of course we noticed the differences, because the differences have been huge.

00:26:15.380 And sometimes people say that perhaps it wasn't so clear from the very beginning when Pope Francis took the office.

00:26:22.200 But for us, it was, for me personally, it was very, very clear from the very beginning.

00:26:28.620 Because I remember the day when it was announced that Pope Francis was elected as the Pope.

00:26:34.440 And I had just one of my friends visiting Estonia, a friend of mine who is from South America.

00:26:41.440 And he's a very joyful person, like a sunshine, you know, always shining, always happy, very talkative, very good person, really.

00:26:50.520 And I have never seen him like this.

00:26:53.360 He was visiting us and he fell apart, basically.

00:26:56.260 The man was basically devastated when he heard that Cardinal Bergoglio had been elected as the Pope.

00:27:03.420 And although I knew nothing about the man, really, I mean, I didn't know about all those plans of making him the Pope already before Cardinal Ratzinger was elected as the Pope and so on.

00:27:15.440 So, for me, it was a completely new name.

00:27:18.280 But I already saw that, okay, if he's so devastated by the news, then we must have a serious problem waiting for us.

00:27:27.020 And, of course, he told that, well, I come from Latin America, I've lived in Brazil for a number of years, I know exactly who the man is.

00:27:35.840 I've followed church politics in Brazil, in Argentina, all the other countries.

00:27:40.300 I know exactly what awaits for us.

00:27:42.480 So, just wait and see, wait and see.

00:27:44.520 Because he didn't even say much.

00:27:47.160 He didn't say that, you know, he did this or he did that.

00:27:49.540 But I can remember so clearly the way how he really was absolutely devastated.

00:27:54.400 So, for me, it was obvious from the very beginning that something's very, very seriously wrong.

00:28:00.920 But, of course, you spoke about John Paul II.

00:28:04.700 For us also, he was an immense source of inspiration.

00:28:09.000 He visited Estonia.

00:28:09.700 Well, he visited Estonia, yes, that's true.

00:28:12.320 Also, we went to his mass on the Rathaus Square in Tallinn at the very heart of the old town.

00:28:20.820 And also, we translated and published in Estonia his Evangelium Vitae, which was such a big source of inspiration for us.

00:28:28.460 You know, I can remember much of it by heart.

00:28:32.740 You know, not literally, I cannot quote it, but I know what passage talks about what.

00:28:36.780 And I've read it so many times, I've quoted it so many times in my lectures, in my writings, everywhere.

00:28:42.440 And, you know, the way he speaks to bishops, for example, that you, bishops, are obliged to be relentless defenders of life, of the family, of everything.

00:28:52.900 You know, it was just so beautiful that at the heart of his attention was always innocent human life and family.

00:29:00.700 You know, it was the absolute core of his mission as the Pope.

00:29:05.380 And now, when we look at the difference, what we are seeing, comparing this period to the present day, then we see that it's the opposite, really.

00:29:13.360 You know, we can see all kinds of processes in the Church which are aimed against the Church and family.

00:29:19.960 You know, James Martin and, you know, continuing with the rest of the crowd.

00:29:23.980 But when was the last time we saw or heard the leadership of the Church really bravely and openly defending family and life?

00:29:34.660 You know, we can think about the referendums in Ireland, for example.

00:29:39.080 And we can only imagine what Pope John Paul II would have done in those situations.

00:29:43.100 You know, he would have called every single Catholic, all the bishops, do everything you can to avoid the destruction of family.

00:29:49.320 Do everything you can to avoid the legalization of the murdering of unborn babies.

00:29:54.660 And there was a complete silence.

00:29:56.180 So it's just a matter of fact.

00:29:57.860 It's not a matter of opinion.

00:29:59.240 There is a huge contrast.

00:30:01.140 So it is very sad.

00:30:04.200 But it cannot be denied.

00:30:05.540 And it really shouldn't be denied.

00:30:06.940 We should be open about it.

00:30:08.600 What did they call it last year?

00:30:10.100 The silence that kind of cries out or something.

00:30:13.700 You can hear the silence.

00:30:15.420 The deafening silence.

00:30:16.360 Yes, deafening silence.

00:30:17.240 And I remember last autumn, we actually, like straight after the scandals, the Pope visited Estonia.

00:30:26.820 And to the very last day, I thought that they would cancel the visit.

00:30:30.640 Like that was the first visit he was going to have after the scandal.

00:30:33.880 And I thought that they would take their time, stop the show, discuss and answer the questions.

00:30:40.900 But the silence was really deafening.

00:30:43.640 And I was crying every day, listening to, you know, Lifeside, Taylor Marshall, reading to Viganot, Phil Lawler.

00:30:52.700 Yeah.

00:30:54.140 Praying, praying, praying and crying.

00:30:56.620 And hoping that he would not come before he has said anything or before our bishop has said anything about the scandal.

00:31:02.020 Which never happened, actually.

00:31:03.360 And it went on, like, you know, festive celebrations, the Pope is coming, everything is fine.

00:31:09.280 So I was quite hurt, actually, for the situation.

00:31:12.820 Let me add one more thing about the contrast, about the change, which is very painful to us as lay Catholics also fighting in Estonia to defend Catholic ideals.

00:31:23.340 Because what we see more and more often is that the liberal media actually attacks us by saying that, well, you seem to be more Catholic than the Pope, right?

00:31:34.260 Because didn't you hear what the Pope said?

00:31:36.060 Who am I to judge?

00:31:37.600 Who am I to judge homosexual relations?

00:31:41.060 So why are you so against it, you know?

00:31:43.300 So this is very painful, actually, because it would be such a blessing to be able to be a knight for the Pope.

00:31:53.160 You know, you fall on your knees in front of the Pope or a cardinal or a bishop and you say,

00:31:58.860 Your Excellency, Your Eminence, Your Holiness, just tell us what we need to do to defend our Catholic faith,

00:32:05.720 the most important moral principles, and we will go and fight and do all you ask us to do.

00:32:10.180 But right now we have the opposite position, opposite situation, that you are a soldier of Christ, you want to fight,

00:32:17.520 but you hear all the time when looking above your shoulder that your officers, you know,

00:32:23.140 they either don't seem to care very much about those principles or they are saying things which your enemies are using against you.

00:32:30.020 So it almost feels like they are giving ammunition to your enemies to shoot at you.

00:32:34.220 So this is not only a sad but actually a very painful realization.

00:32:39.300 And something which has really, I think, caused a lot of damage to Catholic counter-revolutionary movement all over the world.

00:32:51.060 I really think so.

00:32:52.140 I think that's an incredible image, the battle image that you gave.

00:32:57.000 You and the laity, and I think particularly of holy Catholic families, like I think you are and you might object.

00:33:04.280 But that is the front line.

00:33:07.660 Those are the troops that go out.

00:33:11.060 It's the clergy and the Holy Father who are the generals from behind who are supposed to be giving us the orders.

00:33:17.300 And of all people, you would be willing to carry them out or so many faithful Catholics who would die for the faith,

00:33:24.960 who would love to die for the faith in a way, who feel so much given to it that they will be that example in the world

00:33:32.280 that will have openness to life despite being condemned for it,

00:33:36.840 who will tell their brothers and sisters who are practicing a lifestyle that's harmful for their bodies and their souls

00:33:41.840 that it's wrong to do that in love, but they'll tell them anyway,

00:33:45.040 who will help the woman who's in an unplanned pregnancy to go through with that anyway 0.99

00:33:49.920 and try and ensure that that doesn't happen again by being loving and telling them the truth.

00:33:54.480 They're out there going to do that, willing to take the hit of, you know, being called a hater and a bigot or whatever.

00:34:02.760 But as you said, from behind, from the generals and the officers in the army are coming,

00:34:09.780 the lies of the enemy, the weapons given to the enemy such that they'll be using it to harm us,

00:34:17.340 and sometimes even there comes a stab from the back.

00:34:20.940 Let's close off with a couple last questions.

00:34:26.740 One, I wanted to ask you, was there a pilgrimage you did with your daughter or something like that?

00:34:31.300 Yes, the pilgrimage that you did with your daughter.

00:34:34.720 How did that go?

00:34:35.900 You did, you brought your daughter, your little daughter.

00:34:38.880 Oh yes, that one here.

00:34:40.840 That one.

00:34:42.820 Okay, 25 kilometers.

00:34:45.720 25 kilometers in Rome, seven churches.

00:34:50.940 With an eighth-month-old baby.

00:34:55.460 But we also have a 13-year-old son with us.

00:34:58.500 And I also have my husband, who was quite heroic.

00:35:02.160 Even climbed the Scala Santa with the baby.

00:35:06.060 I don't know if many people do that.

00:35:08.740 And he was...

00:35:09.740 I don't know if many people around me like that.

00:35:13.400 Yeah.

00:35:15.060 And our boy did it twice, like two rounds.

00:35:17.280 One for the older sister and one for the younger sister.

00:35:21.340 So that was quite moving, quite touching.

00:35:23.580 And also, you were carrying the baby, because the baby seemed to not like the stroller or the wrap.

00:35:31.540 So he heroically carried her for half the road.

00:35:36.180 So that was a huge blessing.

00:35:38.420 I think it's...

00:35:39.400 I mean, it's not heroic in the sense that...

00:35:42.300 Going back to what you said before, I think very many Catholic men and men in general long for the possibility to suffer for something good.

00:35:51.500 Long for the possibility to fight.

00:35:54.260 Long for the possibility to be knights in the army of Christ.

00:35:58.540 And to really go out there and be defenders of the truth.

00:36:02.420 And it's one of the most tragic things, I think, from the perspective of Catholic men,

00:36:06.580 that oftentimes it seems these days that the hierarchy of the Church has basically given up...

00:36:12.760 Or given up offering those possibilities to us as Catholic men.

00:36:17.440 Of course, the possibilities are there, but it's so much more difficult to find them.

00:36:21.780 It's so much more difficult to discern what the right possibilities are.

00:36:25.620 But it is extremely important, in my opinion, to voluntarily take certain sufferings,

00:36:32.480 because it's just a possibility of sanctification.

00:36:35.980 So I don't think it's heroic.

00:36:37.240 It's just something we do with pleasure to give such little sacrifices.

00:36:44.680 Amen.

00:36:45.000 Well, I can see from the clouds and the few drops that it's probably time for us to quit.

00:36:51.860 But let me just say one thing.

00:36:53.880 The one thing I've noticed and I appreciate so much is despite all of what's going on,

00:36:58.840 and maybe in some little way because of it, because God can make straight with crooked lines,

00:37:04.340 there's a vitality of faith that I see in you,

00:37:07.420 and that I've seen in many families and many fighters for the faith.

00:37:10.680 But despite what's going on, and maybe in a weird way because of it,

00:37:16.040 there's a willingness to fight for this faith that maybe they weren't going to do before.

00:37:21.840 Maybe they were, you know, just being, sitting back with the faith.

00:37:24.940 But the confusion in the church has caused more people to get those books and read them,

00:37:29.400 to study their faith, to know their faith, because they know now it's important,

00:37:32.740 because there's no relaxing with it anymore.

00:37:34.560 And it's caused them to fight for the faith in the way they probably never thought they would have to.

00:37:40.900 God bless you, Varro and Helena.

00:37:42.480 Thank you for being with us on Judon Henry Weston Show.

00:37:44.900 Thank you very much.

00:37:46.460 May God bless you all.

00:37:47.460 We'll see you next time.

00:37:48.680 From Rome, wear it training.

00:37:51.120 May God bless you.

The John-Henry Westen Show - December 03, 2019

Inspiring husband and wife with 7 kids are bringing Christ to a faithless nation

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