The John-Henry Westen Show - Is it biblical to say Mary is a co-redeemer with Christ？

00:00:00.000 Never before in the church's history, never, has Our Lady used a false apparition image

00:00:06.480 to transmit an authentic message.

00:00:17.740 You know, my friends, there's a really neat thing about the change we talked about last week with

00:00:24.580 Dr. Mark Miravelle of how the Vatican is dealing with Marian apparitions. One of the big things

00:00:30.040 that has been talked about for many, many years, in fact, over 20 years inside of the Catholic Church

00:00:37.220 has been what a lot of people refer to as a coming last Marian dogma, something like that.

00:00:42.580 But it's the formalization of what the church has believed forever about Our Lady's special role

00:00:48.620 in co-redemption, co-redemptrix, it's called. Also that she's the mediatrix of all graces.

00:00:55.080 You know, those things have been sort of taught in the church, but they've never been

00:00:58.940 formally taught as this is dogma of the church. In other words, all Catholics must believe this. 0.94

00:01:05.220 Like the last dogma was 1955 when we were told we must believe in the assumption of Our Lady

00:01:10.980 into heaven in order to be Catholic. And that question about the coming or formalization of

00:01:18.860 those teachings also is called into question by this new approach of the dicastery for the doctrine

00:01:27.640 of faith and the changes that we had a few months ago now. And I wanted to bring Dr. Miravelle back on

00:01:33.380 in order to discuss that aspect as well. Stay tuned to this episode of the John Henry Weston Show.

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00:02:10.020 Mark, so good to have you back again. It's my pleasure. Thanks for asking me back, John Henry.

00:02:14.340 And let's begin as we always do with the sign of the cross. In the name of the Father,

00:02:18.240 and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. So what I wanted to ask you about this time was

00:02:25.200 really sort of the central focus sort of of your life's work. You've been promoting this idea for a

00:02:30.680 long time now that Catholics, that the church should proclaim formally, even though she sort of

00:02:36.200 taught it all throughout, but proclaim formally a dogma on the reality of Mary's role as co-redemptrix

00:02:43.140 and mediatrix of all graces. Maybe you can start with just explaining what that means anyway.

00:02:48.940 Sure. And let me start with a historical fact here that this movement for a fifth Marian dogma really

00:02:55.600 started back in 1915 with a Belgian cardinal who during World War I thought it would release great

00:03:02.260 graces and peace to the world if we involved Our Lady, if we brought Our Lady as, again, remedy for

00:03:09.400 the challenges that we're facing during World War I. And so it's exactly as you say, it's already a

00:03:16.340 doctrinal teaching of the church that Mary is the co-redemptrix, mediatrix of all graces, and advocate.

00:03:22.520 What does that mean specifically? Well, think of it in terms of a mother. A mother suffers for her

00:03:27.780 children. A mother nourishes her children. A mother pleads and protects her children. Well, that's what 0.65

00:03:34.240 Our Lady does for each one of us, for all humanity, really, John Henry, because she's a mother of all

00:03:39.640 peoples. So co-redemptrix indicates that Mary uniquely participated with and under Jesus in the redemption of

00:03:47.360 humanity. That God wanted a woman. God wanted a human woman involved in the restoration of grace

00:03:54.500 just as a human woman was involved in the loss of grace, Eve with Adam. So co-redemptrix, I find it 0.83

00:04:02.840 almost amusing how people see it controversially, but co just means with. Redemptrix is a suffix

00:04:10.660 regarding to a woman with Redeemer. So the term just means the woman with the Redeemer.

00:04:16.320 You want a simple definition of co-redemptrix, it means Mary helped Jesus save souls like no one else,

00:04:23.000 but it's entirely, completely, absolutely dependent on our Lord Jesus. I mean, do you think St. Paul

00:04:29.380 would have a problem with that, or St. Peter or St. John would say, no, I actually think I helped Jesus

00:04:33.380 more than Mary. It's not really so controversial. So that's co-redemptrix.

00:04:39.680 Let's go into that co-redemptrix for a second, because I mean, in a way, don't we all participate

00:04:46.100 in redeeming? When you fast and you pray for your brother, your sister, your father, your mother,

00:04:52.400 whatever, aren't you helping in some way? Co-redemptrix in some way? I understand co-redemptrix

00:04:57.920 means a special place, and she does that uniquely. Totally understood, but that concept isn't

00:05:03.520 controversial at all. Not at all. This is basic Christian revelation. I mean, St. Paul calls us

00:05:12.420 to be co-workers with God. Does that mean equal? Of course not. That's blasphemy. Colossians 1.24,

00:05:19.580 we're called to make up what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ for the sake of his body,

00:05:24.000 which is the church. Or let's go domestic, John Henry. What did we do when we were kids and we

00:05:28.680 fell and we hurt our knee? What did our mom say? Offer it up. Offer it up, honey. What does that mean?

00:05:34.840 I mean, patiently endure it, because there's a supernatural value there. Right. Before you

00:05:39.700 continue there, the kids will go, wait a minute, that seems like you're uncaring. No. It totally

00:05:45.760 acknowledges your hurt and pain, because if we see in Jesus that unbelievable suffering, no one says of

00:05:51.800 Jesus, hey, you don't really hurt, just offer it up. No, they're saying you do really hurt,

00:05:56.220 and that hurt paid our way for salvation. And so we're actually saying, when we say offer it up,

00:06:01.580 we love you. We know you're in really bad pain, and it hurts us to see you in bad pain,

00:06:05.020 but you know what? That pain can be redemptive. Anyway, I don't want to get in trouble with my kids.

00:06:10.480 It's not free of suffering with the person you love that's suffering, but it's a, let's make this

00:06:17.900 supernatural. Let's help someone get out of purgatory. Let's help someone be baptized. And

00:06:24.360 St. John Paul II brilliantly explains that the redemption of Jesus is creatively opened up to

00:06:30.300 us in virtue of our baptism. So John Paul II called us all to be co-redeemers in Christ.

00:06:36.900 Pius XI before him said, you're all co-redeemers in Christ. And listen to this from Benedict XVI.

00:06:42.020 He's blessing people at Fatima with the Eucharist. He's blessing the sick. And he says,

00:06:47.540 quote, I call you all to be redeemers in the redeemer, not a co-word. That's either blasphemy,

00:06:57.260 or it's the truth that we're all called to participate in the salvation of each other,

00:07:03.080 of others who are not in the church. But no one like the mother, no one who gave birth to the word

00:07:08.780 made flesh. I mean, who else can say that, that I gave flesh to the redeemer? I have to tell you,

00:07:14.500 John Henry, I was talking with Mother Teresa about this years back down in Calcutta. And I said,

00:07:20.020 Mother, do you believe Mary's co-redemptrix? She said, of course she's the co-redemptrix.

00:07:24.940 She gave Jesus his body and his body is what saved us.

00:07:28.520 You did say something pretty controversial, though, when you quoted the scriptures. And I know that might

00:07:33.440 seem weird, but you said, you quoted St. Paul, but this is a hard saying. He said, I make up

00:07:40.720 in my own body what's lacking in the sufferings of Christ. Can you unpack that? Because that sounds

00:07:47.200 weird. What do you mean lacking in the sufferings? How can there be a lacking in the suffering of

00:07:51.880 Christ? Yeah. So it sounds, to use a proper theological term, it sounds weird for two reasons.

00:07:57.740 First of all, it sounds weird because it sounds like Jesus didn't do enough. Secondly, it sounds weird

00:08:02.200 because thank God we're around to save and make up what Jesus didn't do. Both of those possibly be

00:08:08.500 right. John Paul II brilliantly unpacks this. And you want to read a beautiful document on the

00:08:13.840 Christian meaning of human suffering. It's John Paul's 1984 document on suffering. And he says

00:08:20.340 that objectively, Jesus paid an infinite price on Calvary, which is completely super abundant.

00:08:29.180 At the same time, out of love for us, he allows us to participate in his greatest historic universal

00:08:39.860 act, which is redemption. So it's the generosity of Jesus who allows us to be co-redeemers and

00:08:47.400 co-workers. It's not out of strict necessity. It's out of generosity. So that's what's called

00:08:53.200 subjective redemption. So Jesus paid the price. The storehouse of graces are infinite. But by our

00:08:59.700 prayers, our sacrifices, and as the kids at Fatima are told, accepting things you cannot change,

00:09:06.420 you can release those graces already merited by Jesus, the new Adam, and secondarily by Mary, 0.72

00:09:13.880 the new Eve. She also had a role in acquiring and obtaining the graces, St. John Paul II tells us. But

00:09:20.580 you're absolutely right. It's a call for every single Christian.

00:09:23.780 Something you just said before that was really beautiful too. You talked about how it's true.

00:09:28.740 God didn't need, he had no absolute need of Mary to redeem the world. He could have come as God.

00:09:36.280 But in order to suffer, in order to do what sacrifice he wanted to make for us,

00:09:44.120 he needed Our Lady to give him that body to suffer. Those hands to be pierced, those feet to be nailed, 1.00

00:09:51.340 that head to be crowned with thorns. It's an amazing participation. 0.97

00:09:54.480 It's so very true. And St. Augustine says, God created us without it, but he did not will to save us

00:10:03.400 without us. And that's a statement. And so we are called to cooperate with God's plan,

00:10:11.220 both for our own salvation and also for the salvation of others. Our Lady does it uniquely.

00:10:17.420 No one else gave flesh to the word. No one else was, as John Paul says, spiritually crucified

00:10:23.400 with her crucified son at Calvary so that she could be co-redemptrix for us. And really, 0.79

00:10:30.700 you know, as we talked about in our first session, the apparitions, the private revelation

00:10:36.560 really tries to call us to be more generous in places where perhaps we need a little encouragement,

00:10:43.720 like prayer, like rosary, like fasting, reparation. These are all things that are true. And that's why,

00:10:51.520 again, I see the importance of these messages. And I think, again, it's very important that the

00:10:58.720 Dicastery for the Doctrine of Faith understand this importance and champions the doctrines that are

00:11:04.900 really behind these truths rather than in any way to minimize that she is, in fact, the co-redemptrix

00:11:12.400 and mediatrix of all graces. Because ultimately, John Henry, I think some of the statements more

00:11:17.680 recently regarding some of the apparitions really seem to be a concern, a caution about these

00:11:25.080 traditional doctrines. And I would just say there's no reason to be concerned about co-redemptrix

00:11:29.900 and mediatrix of all graces, because they're in fact embedded in three to four centuries of papal

00:11:35.360 teaching. Indeed. I think the advocate is pretty clear. Advocate everybody knows is someone who

00:11:40.000 speaks for you, like your lawyer and someone who represents you. And everybody can see that with

00:11:44.320 Our Lady pleading on our behalf to her son, who is still her son, and therefore wants very much to

00:11:51.700 listen to his mother, to acquiesce to her wishes the way he did on earth when she was like,

00:11:55.660 they have no wine, by the way. But what's this mediatrix of all graces? I think there's some

00:12:02.060 confusion there. What is a mediatrix of all graces? The lists are really beautiful. Many people maybe

00:12:07.680 don't get a thrill out of reading, you know, papal texts. But when you read these texts of the last

00:12:13.200 three centuries of Popes on Our Lady that tell us over and over and over again that every single grace

00:12:20.380 of Jesus Christ that we receive comes to us through the mediation of Our Lady. And that's what the

00:12:28.640 church means, why basically you have an unbroken line of Popes from Benedict XIV back in the middle

00:12:37.180 of the 18th century to our present Holy Father, Pope Francis, who have all referred to Our Lady as

00:12:44.100 mediatrix of all graces or made reference of that role or have honored that title. So this is a

00:12:52.440 doctrine that's not going away. This is a central Catholic doctrine that every single grace we receive

00:12:58.160 from Jesus, we receive through the mediation of Our Lady. Yeah, I remember my dad when I was growing up

00:13:04.140 used to say very simply, well, the scriptures say all grace and truth come through Jesus Christ

00:13:10.000 and Jesus Christ came through Mary. So for me, it was pretty simple. It's a beautiful truth. I'm very

00:13:16.100 much into true devotion to Mary. And in there, he unpacks that in such a beautiful way.

00:13:21.540 Pope Pius XI said, men must look for the peace of Christ in the kingdom of Christ. And he urged that

00:13:29.320 the faithful give public honor to Christ the King so that individuals and states would submit once more

00:13:34.860 to the rule of their savior. And that is why LifeSite News is raising up the image of Christ

00:13:40.620 the King across the United States. And you can help us reach millions more. Please pledge your support

00:13:47.140 today for these billboards at lifefunder.com slash Christ is King. But I think we need to get to the

00:13:57.100 other issue, and that is this beautiful teaching of our church, which has been around forever,

00:14:01.840 but not yet made into a dogma. And as you said, since 1915, that I had no idea. But anyway,

00:14:06.840 the move to get it to dogmatic status has been around since like 1915, as you said.

00:14:13.180 Okay, what do these new regulations do to this? And where do you see your concern about this?

00:14:20.080 In a certain sense, the new norms should have no impact on what is a pre-conciliar and post-conciliar

00:14:29.380 official teaching of the papal magisterium, that Mary is the mediatrix of all graces,

00:14:34.900 and that Mary had a unique role with and under Jesus in the redemption of all humanity. Now,

00:14:40.680 not every pope used the title co-redemptrix. John Paul II did on seven occasions, but the title

00:14:46.160 is just connecting with the doctrine. My concern came in one of the commentaries, this is July 8th of

00:14:55.320 2024, by the DDF. It was actually on the Rosa Mystica apparitions, very beautiful apparitions.

00:15:04.660 And in this document, the DDF, if you recall what we talked about in our last program,

00:15:10.220 the DDF gave permission for the local bishop to make a declaration of Neil Obstokt.

00:15:16.000 That's the highest new level, right? Among the new levels, which before it used to be that the

00:15:21.620 local bishop could make that determination of this is supernatural, they've eliminated that

00:15:25.920 altogether. The bishop doesn't have any local permission himself to do anything, but they've

00:15:29.760 also eliminated that category altogether. So the highest level of approval now is this

00:15:33.900 Neil Obstokt or there's like, what, no errors inside this thing.

00:15:37.880 Then it gradates down about other problems with kind of unusual titles of oculus preabitor,

00:15:45.620 which means essentially keep your eyes on this, and then curatu, careful, and then prohibitor anyway.

00:15:51.520 So it doesn't give the overall impression of a great appreciation. Of course, that always

00:15:57.540 is dependent on the individual call. But I want to read just one reference, John Henry, that I think

00:16:02.360 is particularly concerning and has called many a Mariologist to write to the DDF just for

00:16:09.100 clarification. And this is on their statement, their commentary regarding Rosa Mystica. And they

00:16:16.360 actually quote, because the Rosa Mystica message is packed with references of Our Lady as mediatrics

00:16:21.720 of all graces. But then the DDF quotes this line. It says, quote, at the same time, it must be

00:16:28.180 maintained that only the Lord can act in people's hearts by bestowing sanctifying grace that uplifts and

00:16:35.000 transforms, because sanctifying grace is first and foremost the gift of the Spirit who justifies

00:16:40.480 and sanctifies us. In this action, which only God can do in the depths without overlooking our freedom,

00:16:47.860 there is no other possible mediation, not even that of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Now, once again,

00:16:56.820 my task is not to judge hearts, but it's just to state facts. To say that Mary doesn't have a role

00:17:04.360 in the mediation of graces, again, is just a contradiction of three to four centuries of

00:17:10.700 papal teaching. Perhaps it was an error by one of the writers. Perhaps it passed through. Perhaps

00:17:15.460 it was intended to something else. But as that stands, that cannot be a legitimate position. And

00:17:21.720 I find it in the Rosa Mystica commentary. I also find it potentially in the statement that came out

00:17:30.880 over the summer regarding the Amsterdam apparitions. And not to get into a lot of detail here, but just

00:17:36.520 quickly stating the facts, that in 1974, these apparitions were given the status of non-konstat.

00:17:44.260 And remember, non-konstat means we don't confirm, we don't deny, but we're not establishing it as

00:17:49.300 supernatural yet. Well, then, in the early 80s, it was the congregation itself that talked to the local

00:17:58.840 ordinary in Amsterdam about allowing some level of devotion. Still apart from making a declaration

00:18:07.960 of authenticity, but it was actually the CDF that initiated that. And then in 1995, there was a meeting

00:18:15.580 in Rome, which confirmed that the bishop could make a statement about the devotion. And the bishop at

00:18:23.360 that time, Bishop Bowmers, said that you can have veneration to the Lady of All Nations, and you can

00:18:31.160 believe the messages according to conscience. Well, 2002, the new bishop, because he was being, you know,

00:18:38.040 stormed by petitions from people all over the world, saying, is this true? Is this apparition true or not?

00:18:42.920 So he made a very moderate opinion, a very moderate statement on this, John Henry, which has to be

00:18:48.420 emphasized. He said, I approve, in essence, the authenticity, but he made very clear that not every word

00:18:57.140 is necessarily approved, that there's still the human filter involved. It was a very wise, a very prudent

00:19:03.980 statement. Jump to 2020, the congregation at that time for the Doctrine of Faith asked the new local bishop

00:19:10.800 to change the status from constat, which the bishop said in 2002 that it was relatively supernatural,

00:19:19.180 essentially supernatural, to now non-constat. And then finally, on July 11th of this summer of 2024,

00:19:27.640 the DDF came out and said, constat de non. So, of course, that's its present status. Constat de non

00:19:36.680 means that at this point, it's established as not being supernatural. But you can see in the history

00:19:44.160 of this, it's gone from non-constat to being approved to now being back to non-constat to constat de non.

00:19:53.580 So I simply want to state the facts regarding that. That's the present status. But I want to say this

00:19:58.680 very clearly. Its own history shows you that disciplines can change. It was the CDF that initiated

00:20:05.760 a new openness to veneration. And so we obey disciplines, but by the very nature, they can

00:20:12.240 change. I always think of Padre Pio. Padre Pio was prohibited by his local bishop with the approval

00:20:18.280 of Pius XI, and he went from prohibition to canonization. Divine Mercy, 20 years, was prohibited

00:20:25.100 with the approval of John XXIII. Went from prohibition to a liturgical feast on Sundays.

00:20:31.960 Most recently, Rosa Mystica, the ones we're talking about in northern Italy, had five different

00:20:37.580 negative judgments before July 8th of 2024. Now the DDF has allowed it to be Neil Obstatt. So

00:20:47.320 I'm simply saying disciplines by their nature can change. Presently, Amsterdam is constat de non,

00:20:53.140 but that's always possible to be changed. And again, remember, personal belief can always remain

00:20:59.000 while still obeying what the church says. It gets really weird about Our Lady of All Nations,

00:21:05.160 which is this Amsterdam apparition, because that's tied into Akita, which is approved. If you can

00:21:12.480 explain that, please. Yeah, well, in fact, it is a statue of the Lady of All Nations in Akita, Japan,

00:21:23.000 which wept over a hundred, well, 101 times specifically, but that's not 101 tears, that's 101

00:21:29.060 occasions. And it was from that statue that the, at that time, deaf religious sister Agnes, who just

00:21:37.880 passed away on August 15th of 2024, great day to go, right, on the Assumption of Our Lady. But it was

00:21:43.780 through that statue that she heard locutions from Our Lady. And in fact, she, the sister, had the

00:21:52.460 stigmata in the form of a cross on her left hand, but the statue had it on the right hand of the statue.

00:21:59.360 So I would simply raise the point that since Akita is an approved apparition, never before in the

00:22:06.000 church's history, never, has Our Lady used a false apparition image to transmit an authentic message. 0.67

00:22:15.800 And it wouldn't make too much sense, right, to do that. You wouldn't take a false apparition

00:22:19.700 and then use it as the very instrument, the visible sign of a true apparition. So there's still some

00:22:25.820 significant inconsistency with Akita as approved, based on this image of the Lady of All Nations,

00:22:31.900 and the present status of Amsterdam as constate non. But we'll see. We'll see what happens in the

00:22:38.940 future. So where does that bring us then with regard to the declaration of co-redemptrix and

00:22:45.040 mediatrix of all grace as an advocate? That movement, which again has, just in the last 25 years,

00:22:50.360 8 million petitions from 180 countries. If you want to talk about synodality, that's a pretty

00:22:55.880 synodal message. There's never in the history of the church been bigger per annum support for anything

00:23:05.020 in the history of the church than this proclamation. And so the theology is there. There's over 25

00:23:11.780 volumes. In fact, back in 1925, there were three theological commissions, one in Belgium, Spain,

00:23:18.480 and Rome. The Roman commission was never released, but they produced over 2,500 pages of support for this

00:23:24.460 dogma before 1930. And now we've had another 25 volumes of theology. So everything is really ready.

00:23:32.520 I encourage people to pray for the heart of the Holy Father, because ultimately, it's the Vicar of

00:23:37.500 Christ that can make this proclamation. But I believe, John Henry, once this dogma is proclaimed,

00:23:43.640 what you're doing is you're acknowledging Our Lady's roles as co-redemptrix, mediatrix, and advocate.

00:23:48.600 That allows her to fully activate these roles. And that's what Cardinal Mercier believed at the

00:23:55.180 beginning. That's why he started this movement in 1915. But I think we all realize we can use

00:24:00.000 a historic release of grace right now in the church and in the world, and it's only going to come from

00:24:06.740 Our Lady. So the more we acknowledge her roles, the more she can activate those roles. And there's no

00:24:12.560 greater way of acknowledging them than a solemn definition, a real dogmatic crowning to Our Lady

00:24:18.260 as the mother of all peoples. When you study the Fatima apparitions, and our Lord's want to

00:24:25.640 establish devotion to his immaculate heart, her immaculate heart, the immaculate heart of his own

00:24:30.060 mother, because of her sufferings and the way in which Christians, his people have disregarded his 1.00

00:24:38.760 mother. You can see that the doing of this would please our Lord so much. He's sort of asking for

00:24:49.280 this, and we in our slowness are sort of, whatever. What do you think's the holdup? Why? I mean,

00:24:56.440 we've had such great Marian popes over the last century, and yet this hasn't happened. Do you have

00:25:02.340 any understanding of that?

00:25:03.080 Well, I think the most recent holdup has been a, in fact, the major objection is always ecumenism,

00:25:09.980 that if we declare this truth about Our Lady, that it will violate the church's responsibility

00:25:15.740 to Christian unity. But I respectfully disagree on a couple fronts. First of all is the understanding

00:25:22.140 of what ecumenism is. John Paul defines ecumenism, John Henry, as prayer and a dialogue which unite

00:25:32.560 Christians ultimately in the one holy Catholic and apostolic church. So if that sounds like it's

00:25:39.140 saying ultimately ecumenism is supposed to lead everyone to become Catholic, that's exactly right. 1.00

00:25:44.260 We don't do it with capitalization, we don't do it with force, but we do it with invitation. That's

00:25:49.040 why we pray and dialogue. The late John O'Connor from New York, the cardinal who was really kind of a

00:25:56.680 special figure in the United States, he sent a letter to Rome and he said this dogma would help

00:26:02.580 ecumenism because it would specify what Catholics do believe regarding Mary, but also what they don't

00:26:09.320 believe, that we don't think she's the fourth person of the Trinity. We don't think she's equal to Jesus.

00:26:14.140 So there's two reasons historically for a dogma. One is just to highlight the truth, like the assumption

00:26:19.760 in 1950. The other is during a time of controversy. I think both of those needs are present right now.

00:26:27.180 We need more clarification for people who don't understand what the church means when they call her

00:26:31.480 co-redemptrix, mediatrix, and advocate. And at the same time, we need to solve controversy, but articulate

00:26:37.860 it in the greatest theological precision possible, who our mother is. Because here's the reality.

00:26:43.740 It's true. She is these things. And if it's true, what could be wrong with proclaiming this truth?

00:26:52.660 And for our Protestant brothers and sisters, I think we insult them when we say, we believe this, 0.99

00:26:57.880 we're just not going to tell you about it. We believe this, but we're not going to emphasize

00:27:01.820 it because we don't think you can handle it. I actually had a Catholic convert once say to me,

00:27:06.800 so I was Pentecostal. I love Our Lady now, but I would never accept this stuff. I can guarantee you.

00:27:12.800 I said, well, but you just said you love her now. Yeah, but, and then he just stopped because it was

00:27:16.520 a contradiction. It's not for us to mince out the gospel to the extent we think people can handle it.

00:27:23.180 We're called to give the full truth about Mary. And that's what John Paul II did. That's what

00:27:27.780 DeMontra did. That's what Colby did. That's what St. Bernard did. And that's what we're called to do

00:27:33.360 today. And then we trust the mother to unite Christians in ways that we can't unite ourselves, 0.83

00:27:39.360 because that's what mothers do best. Indeed, indeed. It's so eminently scriptural. So 0.88

00:27:45.640 Dr. Mark Mirvalli, I want to just thank you so very much for your time, for sharing with us your

00:27:51.380 hard-earned wisdom, which you elucidate for us so very simply. God bless you. Thank you.

00:27:56.800 It's my great pleasure. Thank you, John Henry. God bless.

00:27:59.200 And God bless all of you. And we'll see you next time.

The John-Henry Westen Show - September 03, 2024

Is it biblical to say Mary is a co-redeemer with Christ？

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