Jesus' Crown of Thorns was More Like a Helmet Than a Ringlet ｜ The Shroud of Turin Suggests
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Summary
The Shroud of Turin is the most studied artifact in the world, bar none. It is the burial cloth of Christ, and I m going to give you a glimpse into its history, which you can trace right back to the beginning, and the incredible discoveries that show you what the crown of thorns actually looked like.
Transcript
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What do we know from science and what do we know from faith? Many assume that these are
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incompatible or in conflict, but here what's so remarkable is that again and again,
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not only are they compatible, they're mutually illuminating.
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Hey my friends, do you want to learn about the greatest mystery on earth? The most studied
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artifact in the world bar none? That's something called the Shroud of Turin. It is the burial
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cloth of Christ and I'm going to give you a glimpse into its history, which you can trace
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right back to the beginning and the incredible discoveries that show you what the crown of
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thorns actually looked like. By the way, it's not just this. What Jesus lay in his thing about
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rigor mortis that he went through and about how he was crucified. You're going to want
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to stay tuned to this episode of the John Hanna Weston Show.
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Mighty nations stumble. World war threatens. There's destruction on the battlefield and
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also in the womb. And all this is happening because man has forgotten God. Pope Pius XI said,
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Before we get to our experts, let's begin as we always do with the sign of the cross.
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In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.
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Let's go around here and take a look at some of the amazing images that are here that are
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reproductions of the actual Shroud of Turin, and get to hear from the experts what they mean,
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what they signify, and the incredible discoveries that science has been able to make to show us the
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reality of his death, crucifixion, and resurrection. So like one of the things we're going to learn
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about is that the Shroud gives evidence that the crucifixes we all see in our churches, they're not
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nearly what Jesus suffered. It's much more relevant, it's much more real, as you saw in the Passion of
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the Christ. Look, these are images based on the Shrouds. You can see the actual evidence for these
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horrific wounds. They're everywhere. They take up his whole body, his legs, his torso, all sort of
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lacerated. It's just incredible. This is not pretty. It is the visual that we have the evidence for,
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And this is Nora Creech. She is the one actually responsible for this display here at the National
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Eucharistic Congress. And she's been working with the Shroud for a long, long time. So Nora,
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if you can tell us first, what is most striking? I know you've devoted so much of your life to this.
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What's most striking about the Shroud and this to you?
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Well, the connection of the Shroud to the Gospels. It's a tangible evidence that our faith is true.
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And the more you start examining the Shroud and the closer you look at the Shroud with the Gospels,
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the more you say, wow, this is amazing that God left us this beautiful representation of what He
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suffered for us. And then that He triumphed over that brutal, agonizing death that He suffered. And
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the image was made at the moment of His resurrection. So it's, it's a real
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Hmm. A couple of things that are so striking here. One is that you have a representation of the
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Crown of Thorns. That's totally different than the Crown of Thorns. It's not like the normal round,
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Why is that? And how does that square up? And why from the Shroud do you get that?
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Well, it's more like a cap of thorns, like you said. So it, the, there's the theological significance
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is very deep. You can go all the way back to Genesis three, where with the fall and the,
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the consequences of our sin were thorns and thistles. The ground itself produced thorns and
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thistles. So that was the consequence of our sin. And so Jesus is actually taking our sin upon His head
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and wearing it to the cross. Nobody else in recorded history was crowned with thorns. And then
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the shape of the crown is the cap, which is like what the high priest wore. They wore more of a cap,
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not, not a circlet like we are so used to seeing. So you have Jesus wearing our sins as the high
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priest going forward to be enthroned on the cross. Whoa. One of the other really striking aspects here is
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the image of the crucifix. Cause it's totally different. It's one of the arms is sort of
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bent and the other one's straight, like you assume. And how do you get that from the Shroud?
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And why is that thought to be the way it was? So you're referring to the Ricci crucifix,
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which we have a copy of here in the exhibit. And Monsignor Giulio Ricci started the center in Rome,
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which started to study very intensively the Shroud in a forensic way. So he was one of the first
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researchers to really look at the wounds on the Shroud and what it told us about Jesus,
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actual torture and death. And so what he discovered is that the blood flows on the forearms
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indicated that that is the position that the body was in when Jesus actually died on the cross. So we
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know from, from forensic studies that Jesus had to move, rotate around those nails and his wrists in
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order to lift himself up to breathe and then to lower down to exhale. So there was this constant
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movement. So there's two different blood flows on the forearms. And then once he died, that his head
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was tilted down and to the right. And, and that's what's reflected on the Ricci crucifix.
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There's so much, we can only touch a tiny bit of what's going on, but this is meant to engender a thirst
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for it and also to get through some of the disbelief. Cause I know there's a lot of fakes and saying
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that, you know, it's fake. And we had a big national geographic thing years ago that said,
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oh, that's all nonsense. And they tested parts of it that weren't not even part of it really. But anyway,
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what would have caused you to devote so much of your life to this?
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So it actually goes back to when I was a teenager in high school. So I grew up in Colorado and a member of
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my church community was on the Shroud of Turin research project team. And so when he came back
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from Turin, after spending that time intensively studying the Shroud, he started giving lectures
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in our community and my dad was very interested. So I would go to the lectures with my dad.
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And so it was just a really great bonding between my dad and myself. And then I became good friends
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with this researcher. His name is Rudy Dichtel. And he ended up teaching at my university,
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University of Colorado. So when I would have a research paper to do, I would go to Rudy and
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he would loan me his information that hadn't even been published yet. So I remember walking across
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campus carrying a bust of Jesus that had been cut from cardboard based on the three-dimensional
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information that's encoded in the Shroud. And so it goes all the way. It's been a passion of mine for
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my whole life. And then I had the great gift of being a part of the first course in English of
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the post-baccalaureate certificate. So I was able to take that and then they asked me if I would help
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them. And of course, I was so honored. Beautiful. What could you say about
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the Shroud's help to you in your devotion to our Lord?
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For me, I think I was praying about that this morning that Jesus said, for those who have eyes
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to see and ears to hear, here he is. He has shown us his face. He's shown us his blood poured out for
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our salvation. And when I see it, I can only say, my Lord and my God, and thank you. And it's just,
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it's such a profound experience to be in the presence of Jesus, to seek his holy face, and to
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know that he's still with us. He abides with us through the Eucharist. He hasn't left us alone.
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And it's a wonderful way to feel his presence. Absolutely beautiful.
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Nora, thank you so very much. Oh, you're welcome. Thank you.
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For all this, for doing this, and for your gracious hosting, so.
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Well, thank you very much. I hope you've enjoyed being here.
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And so this is Father Andrew Dalton, and he is a professor in that school,
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Regina Postolorum, but also in that specialty diploma program that they have now, Athonia,
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It means burial cloths or linen cloths in Greek. It's just the word that we find in John 20,
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where the empty tomb is discovered, or so we say. It's not so empty, actually. His body isn't there,
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so in that respect, it is empty. But it's actually remarkable that one-third of that gospel passage
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talks about the contents of the not-so-empty tomb, right? And so what's there? The linen cloths.
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The linen cloths are described in great detail. That word is othonia, unlike in Matthew, Mark,
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and Luke, when the burial is described, the word there is sindon, or shroud, which is singular.
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Okay. And then this word is plural linen cloths. That's significant because it includes this idea
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of the linen strips. Jesus was bound. His body was bound with these aloes and myrrh.
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And so that requires at least one more strip, right? And so on the shroud, you see evidence
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that the beard, there's depression in the beard. They kept the mouth shut. They wrapped around the
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legs such that there's an interruption in the body image between the knees and the ankles.
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Okay. Okay. As you can tell, Father is a biblical scholar. He's also a theologian. But, Father,
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tell us scripturally how this lines up. Because the shroud was discovered, I mean, in popular,
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you know, history, we know from what, the 1500s or something like that?
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Well, even earlier, actually, because in 1356 or thereabouts, it's on display in northern France
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Oh, wow. In the hands of Geoffroy de Charny. Okay.
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And he has ties to these European knights that likely were involved in the Fourth Crusade.
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Oh, wow. This is where the speculations begin, however, because we really don't know. Between 1204
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and 1354, thereabouts, exactly the chain of custody, we do know that when it shows up,
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and here we have all the documentation at this point, medallions even in the Cluny Museum in Paris,
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show attestation of the de Charny family with the empty tomb. It's on public display.
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So from there, we know every baby step forward of the shroud that eventually ended up in Turin,
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but that's not until like the 1570s. Right, right, right. Okay. So biblically speaking,
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then, what do you most see? Like when you looked into this and saw it, you're like, whoa,
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from the scriptures, you can see this on the shroud or on the body as taken. You can get the image from
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the shroud. Yeah. So there are two things. I mean, one is what we know from the scriptures,
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and that's the pursuit of faith, right? Especially for those who receive that as the Word of God.
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And then there's another thing is empirical science. What can we know by studying this
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archaeological object, which is happens to be the most studied artifact in the history of the world.
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And so that's, I think, something to always consider. What do we know from science,
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and what do we know from faith? Many assume that these are incompatible or in conflict. But here,
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what's so remarkable is that again and again, not only are they compatible, they're mutually
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illuminating. And so, for example, what we read about in John's Gospel, you really got to pay
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attention to the segue between the burial, which gives us quite a few details about these linen cloths,
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and then as we segue into the discovery of the empty tomb. Some of these details are often missed,
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even by biblical scholars. It's not often considered in light of shroud science. And this is where I say it
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makes sense of the data points that are observable. Okay, so here are some of them. The first I would
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point out is that the scriptures say how Lazarus was buried. And Lazarus, he has a sudarium, a face
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cloth. He has linen strips that bind the hands and the feet. And then when Jesus is buried, it says he was
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buried according to the custom of the Jews. And so we don't have to research beyond John's Gospel. We know
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how Jewish burials took place. Remember when Jesus calls out Lazarus, he says,
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unbind him. Evidently, there was something to unbind. And so it is with Jesus that he was,
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in the same word appears, he was bound, his body was bound with a hundred pounds of aloe and myrrh.
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That is 75 of our pounds. The Roman pounds are slightly different. But even still, this is remarkable,
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that his body is surrounded by a hundred pounds of aromatics. And that's inside the cloth. Now,
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now get to this point. This is, I'll go right to the main point here. When in John chapter 20,
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in verse eight, we see, he saw and believed. You got to ask, what did he see so that he believed?
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Notice that it doesn't say, despite what he saw, he believed anyway. No, it's in light of what he saw.
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Yeah. And what, what did he see? What in particular did he see?
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We get one little participle, one little word describing these linen cloths,
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but we get it three times, or maybe two, depending on how you count it. But they're lying.
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Some translations add words that aren't there because they don't know how to translate this.
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They don't know how to make sense of it. But it's not that it's lying on the ground. It's that it's
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lying flat. That is like a balloon that's lost its air. Because what was inside before, no longer is.
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Now it collapses. But it's still bound. And I imagine that the allos didn't resurrect. So perhaps
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they're still inside. Such that what, what he saw, he must have scratched his head. He was there on
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Friday, John. He saw how the body lay then. He saw the dispositions of the allelands. Now he sees
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what he saw, except that the pseudarium is now rolled up or folded up and placed on the side.
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The, the, the cloths are lying there. I think he had reasons to believe. And that's really significant
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because we as Christians, we know that our faith is based on testimony. It just so happens that there
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were no eyewitnesses in the moment the cadaver became a living glorified body. But the shroud was there,
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and these linen cloths wrapped every inch of his body. I think they bear witness first. And these
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are the first baby steps in belief in the resurrection. That faith is shored up when they
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have an encounter with the living Jesus. But the first steps are with the evidence that is given
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in the tomb. Wow. You said pseudarium? What is that? Oh, the pseudarium is the face cloth or the napkin
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or the handkerchief. There's, there are different names for it. But the, the, the sweat that is
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sudor in, in Latin. It's a transliteration from the Greek. But we have a cloth that is in Spain to this
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day. And by the way, its paper trail goes all the way back to the sixth century or 600s at least. And,
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and there, imagine you fold the cloth just in half and then you press that to the face. And you, the,
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the blood flows that saturate the beard, when unfolded leave a double imprint. So there's no
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body image on the pseudarium. There's just a blood stain. But when you superimpose the amorphous shapes
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of blood stains, we have rivulets in the nape of the neck on the shroud. When you superimpose the blood
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stains on the pseudarium, they align. Forensic doctors say they covered one and the same person.
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And you can study that blood. And they've, in fact, Heller and Adler in the States have, have done so.
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By Mabalone in the, in Italy. And they have different characteristics that they've pinpointed.
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This is blood of a man. Some have gone out on a limb to say this is even, um, AB blood. They've typed
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that blood. It's, it's not from a woman. It's from a man in particular. Yeah. There's debate about that.
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It seems to match up with the Eucharistic miracles as well.
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Well, this is what's interesting, right? Um, wherever there's been Eucharistic miracles,
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it's come back AB. Dr. Kelly Kurse is an immunologist who I have great respect for.
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And he says, look, we, it may be that it's AB blood, but maybe we need to do further testing
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to definitively say that. And so I, I, I invite the scientific scrutiny. I think that's really good.
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Because we have excellent science on the shroud. And sometimes we're too quick to, um, put all of our,
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our chips in something that's actually not definitively proved where there's still room
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for a little scientific back and forth. And, and that's, that's a positive thing. We should
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favor that. Cool. Last question, because it just occurred to me. So if the, if the Sudarium was
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placed over his face, but then he was wrapped in other cloths and tied and so on, how did the Sudarium
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get out? Yes. It's a valiquet. We don't have a written account of what took place with the Sudarium,
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except for its discovery on Sunday. When it's discovered on Sunday, the language there is,
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it had been on his face. Now it's folded up. What happened in between? We don't know. Could it be
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that the disciples on Good Friday prepared it already and placed it there? Or could it be that Jesus,
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risen from the dead, rolled it up and folded it up on the side? Exegetes go back and forth on that.
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I tend to think that if this is the, the, the verse that is said one breath before saying he saw
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and believed to my mind, that's a suggestion that the gospel writer is suggesting that the agency
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that requires an agent is Jesus himself. I think it's one, I think Jesus risen from the dead placed
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that there. I can't prove that. And you know, maybe it's otherwise, but I think he's trying to give
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you the evidence that is, um, that suggests that there are reasons to believe Jesus is back and
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he's out and about. He's, he's moving things. I, I can't prove that, but I think it's a,
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I think it's a valid argument and I know, uh, biblical scholars that make that argument.
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Beautiful. Father Dalton, thank you so very much.
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Dr. Cheryl White, professor at Louisiana State University, is a professor of history
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who has been working on the Shroud and is able to tell us some history about it.
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So tell us if you would, what, what to you is most striking about the Shroud? How do we,
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I was talking with, uh, Father Dalton and he was saying about the history of the Shroud that was
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first discovered in the 1300s publicly, but you know, how do we trace it backwards? How do we get
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Yeah. Well, we know that there is something that John describes in chapter 20 of the gospel,
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right? That there is a linen in the tomb. So we know that in 33 AD, there is a Shroud that's behind
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in the tomb. We must assume that that would remain in the apostolic community. They would have kept it.
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Then we have a record of a transfer of an image of our Lord that took place in about the year 70,
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from Jerusalem to Antioch. Saint Athanasius of Alexandria tells us this.
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Then from 70 AD until about the sixth century, we know it's in Antioch.
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Then there's a record in the sixth century that there's something being venerated there in Edessa
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called the Acariapoitus or the image made without human hands. So that image was then transferred
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to Constantinople in 944. We have a direct historical record that the Emperor Constantine VII received
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into his collection, the burial linen of Christ. From 944 until 1204, it's in that city. Now,
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this is interesting because this historical narrative I just gave you is not, our vocabulary is limited.
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You know, we're not calling it the Shroud of Turin, but it's clearly a burial linen. And this is the
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best part of it. At every place I just said, Jerusalem, Edessa, Jerusalem, Antioch, Edessa,
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and Constantinople, the Shroud of Turin bears pollens from those places. Scientifically,
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we know the environmental journey of the Shroud. There are pollens on it that place it in specific
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places. So, for instance, someone had it in Jerusalem because there's pollens that are unique
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to that area. It was in Antioch. It was at the Straits going into the Dead Sea. There's a very
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specific pollen that places it there. So, this is CSI, right? There's an environmental journey of the
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Shroud that we can align with what we know historically. Scientifically and historically.
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Yes. Which is the beautiful harmony of what we do in Shroud studies is we all depend upon each other.
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Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. What, as a historian, what has, other than that journey,
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what has struck you most about the Shroud? Probably it is the way I have seen it affect
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people. And if you, I will say this, no one is ever left indifferent. And it doesn't matter if
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you're among the faithful or the unfaithful. If you're a believer or a non-believer, it leaves
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no one indifferent. You cannot have an encounter with this image and not ask an important question
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of yourself. Maybe two important questions. What does it mean and who is it? Yeah. Absolutely beautiful.
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One last thing. The image of our Lord that's sort of reconstructed or made from the Shroud is
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incredible. This is like a life-size image with all sorts of markings on the body. Right. But it
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purports to be how they found our Lord or how our Lord was situated in the Shroud at death. Right.
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How do they know that? How, how can that be? Because it's a beautiful image and, and it's neat,
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but how do they know that's the way our Lord is? So the forensic body model is from information
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extracted from the 1976 VP8 analysis of the Shroud, which is what first told us that image
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characteristic, that there is spatial information embedded in the linen itself. If you look at the
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linen, there are places where it's very dark and dense. That's because it directly contacted the body.
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There are places where the image is not as dense and that's where there's a little more distance from
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the body. So that spatial information creates a map. And from that map, we can then extract,
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this is the position the body had to have been in when it was wrapped in the linen. Wow. Okay. So part
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of it is weird because as we're looking at the image now, you can see it. The head is sort of elevated.
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The legs are kind of bent and elevated a bit. Yes. The hands are, are down. So why is it not flat? Because,
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because the body was in rigor mortis when the image was formed. So rigor mortis sets in a few hours
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after death, but it does not resolve until about 48 to 72 hours. So this image was created within a
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three day window of this man's death. Oh, wow. So then how did the arms, presumably Jesus was on, I don't
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know, Jesus was on the cross and then, and then would, would the arms have been in rigor mortis? Someone,
00:24:40.960
yes. So we, we do know that someone probably forced the arms into position where they are folded over
00:24:46.640
the lower pelvis region. Uh, and we even have evidence on the shroud because of a contact blood
00:24:51.760
stain, uh, on the back of the knee that someone attempted to force his legs down too. But
00:24:57.920
as you can see, when you look at the forensic body model, there's a flexion of the neck
00:25:02.720
and the knees and the feet that clearly shows forensically rigor mortis.
00:25:08.720
The stunning effect of that just on a human level is so weird because the death would be so
00:25:16.000
vivid. Not only that you see the dead body of your son or your friend or your, your, your, your Lord,
00:25:21.920
the rig mortis is such a harsh reality of death. And it's so it's, so that pain that, uh,
00:25:31.840
could totally understand why the apostles were like, no, he's dead. He's dead. We've been there,
00:25:35.440
done that. He's dead, dead. Any, any last thoughts you want to tell us? Only that, um, I, I do hope that
00:25:42.000
if people see this and don't know much about the shroud, that they will seek out information about this.
00:25:47.200
It's an interesting, um, sort of, I, I think reflection for all of us that throughout the ages,
00:25:54.720
man has always been seeking his face. The, the, the histories of the Old Testament speak of it.
0.94
00:26:02.800
The psalmist writes about it. Um, the prophets foretell it. And in the shroud, you see, you encounter
00:26:09.760
the face that we've always sought. Hmm. On that, then I have one more question for you.
00:26:16.720
That face, um, which matches up perfectly with the, uh, shroud image. What is that? And then,
00:26:28.160
if you can also tell us about the superimposition onto the divine mercy face, that would be awesome.
00:26:33.200
So the, the very first, um, depictions of Christ in art, of course, are in the catacombs. And, and
00:26:39.520
Christ appears like a young Roman man. He's indistinguishable from anyone else. But suddenly,
0.96
00:26:44.880
beginning about the sixth century, after Christianity is no longer persecuted, you begin to see a very
0.81
00:26:49.760
radically different image of Christ, one that is more Semitic looking, one where he has long hair
00:26:54.240
and a beard, a plucked beard, a swollen eye. So, so for instance, the, the icon, the early iconography
00:27:00.400
that you see of Christ, um, sort of sets the standard then for how he is depicted in art.
00:27:06.960
That is modeled on the face of the man of the shroud. Someone had seen that image. It was the model
00:27:12.800
for what became the face of Christ. And, uh, and then of course, Saint Faustina and her vision
00:27:18.560
of divine mercy, um, was very specific about, uh, about having to go back and get, and get clarity
00:27:24.720
on what this image was supposed to be. It's very, very specific. It took a long time for the artist
00:27:30.320
to render exactly what she envisioned. And, uh, it has been demonstrated, uh, Adriana Kutis of Turin,
00:27:37.920
who's, who's done a good bit of work on this, has demonstrated that the divine mercy image and the
00:27:42.560
shroud image are in perfect alignment. It is so great to have with us Father Raphael Pasquale,
00:27:48.880
who is actually the, the founder of the Athonia Institute, which is actually part of Regina Apostolorum,
00:27:56.160
a Rome university where they studied a lot on the shroud. And then eventually, thanks to Father,
00:28:03.680
it became its own diploma, gathering the top experts of all the world, especially in Turin,
00:28:10.560
where the shroud is retained, of course, and therefore the grant, granting a diploma just
00:28:16.160
on the study of the shroud. And it is huge as we'll learn in this episode. Father Raphael, good to be
00:28:21.440
with you. Thank you. Tell us a little bit about this, this display here and, uh, why a new display on the
00:28:27.280
Shroud? So we began 2006 with a, uh, first exhibit in Jerusalem, in Notre Dame of Jerusalem Center,
00:28:37.520
with Father Hector Guerra, who, who has the idea to do this. And the, there were some other exhibits,
00:28:45.200
the second one in Rome, also in the States, in, in Poland, Portugal, and so. And we, uh,
00:28:53.840
uh, see, we need, uh, to do a new version because there are some, uh, new discoveries and we, uh,
00:29:03.360
need also to present the message in a, a more graphical and, uh, modern view, no? So, uh,
00:29:10.400
in one side, we want to, to show what is the shroud to the general public. But as you say, uh, we want
00:29:21.280
also to prepare person to know more profoundly, uh, the, what is the shroud in a very interdisciplinary
00:29:30.000
view, you know? So, diverse perspectives, historical, scientific, theological, spiritual, pastoral, and so.
00:29:37.760
Beautiful. Um, why did you call it Othonia? What is Othonia? Othonia is a Greek word that we find in
00:29:45.840
the Gospel of St. John. When the, Peter and John went to the, uh, sepulchre, they saw the Othonia
0.90
00:29:55.760
Kaimena, Kaimena, the, uh, the, uh, cloths, uh, lying in, in, in, in the place with the body was, uh,
00:30:05.120
where the body was released, no? And so, for them, it was the, uh, a sign to, to understand that the Lord was, uh,
00:30:16.640
recent. Indeed. Indeed. Now, the, the Church has studied the shroud for a long time now. Of course,
00:30:22.960
there's been many more recent advancements, which have really exploded. Yeah. But one of the things
00:30:28.640
I would love to learn from you is what the popes have said over the centuries about the shroud.
00:30:34.960
I can see mostly the most recent popes. I will begin with the Holy Father's Saint,
00:30:42.800
John Paul II. Mm-hmm. He went twice to Turin to, to visit and to venerate this, the shroud. And the
00:30:51.520
message, uh, in two occasions were, were very beautiful. The first time it was in 1980. And he, he,
00:31:01.920
so, um, presented the shroud as a very important relic that, uh, speaks about the,
00:31:09.440
the mystery of the passion of the Lord, uh, the, the passion, the death and the, uh, uh, resurrection
00:31:19.680
of the Lord. So is the whole mystery of the salvation in, in some way condensed in, in the shroud.
00:31:27.520
And he presents the, the shroud as a witness, a witness, silent witness, but that is saying a lot.
00:31:37.440
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's a, a very good image. And the second time, uh, there were a message,
00:31:43.600
very beautiful. It, it was in 1998. Um, and he presented the shroud as a, uh, a mirror of the
00:31:55.360
gospel in one side because the, that the gospel says about the passion we can see in this shroud.
00:32:03.520
Mm-hmm. And, uh, uh, also as a, uh, as a challenge for the intelligence because the scientific
00:32:10.320
people, uh, uh, is wondering how it's possible to have a kind of image like this. Mm-hmm.
00:32:17.360
This, this, the message for the Holy Father John Paul II. Pope Benedict, uh, 16, went to, uh, to
00:32:26.000
to Turin in 2010 and he spoke about the Shroud as the message of the Holy Saturday, the mystery
00:32:37.220
of the silence of God in the Holy Saturday. And it was a very profound message. He was
00:32:45.200
very impressed to be there in Turin in front of the Shroud. And he showed how he believes on the Shroud
00:32:56.980
praying in front of this relic. And so this message was very beautiful also.
00:33:07.140
Beautiful. One of the things I wanted to ask you about specifically, you mentioned Pope St.
00:33:11.300
John Paul II talked about how it's a silent message, but it's so full. It's so true because
1.00
00:33:18.440
when you look at it with the naked eye, you see, and when you know what it is, you still
00:33:24.840
love. That's our Lord's suffering is in some way represented. When you see the film, you're
00:33:31.740
given more. But then with all the scientific discoveries now, it's just incredible. It's
00:33:38.220
unbelievable. Really, really. It's so. I think it's like a codex. You have now the possibility
00:33:49.360
to read and to understand because we have the technology, the knowledge to discover all this.
00:33:58.360
Yeah. It's an unpacking from true science that you get from what looks like a simple cloth to a book.
00:34:08.500
And books of information gleaned from this is absolutely beautiful. Father, thank you so much for bringing this to light,
00:34:15.500
for really pushing that this becomes known because it's such a beautiful relic for the whole church.
00:34:23.500
I think needed so much right now. Yeah, I agree. Thank you very much. Thank you, Father. God bless. God bless you, too.