The John-Henry Westen Show

00:00:00.000 Welcome to the John Henry Weston Show. I'm your host, John Henry Weston, and we are here today

00:00:04.720 to discuss something truly revolutionary, a kind of self-help program that has helped Catholics

00:00:10.760 all over the place, and specifically Catholic men, to make them stronger men. And it has helped

00:00:16.760 some 20,000 men to become stronger and better Catholics. Stay tuned.

00:00:30.000 We're going to begin, as we always do, with the sign of the cross. In the name of the Father,

00:00:44.080 and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. I am very pleased to introduce you all to someone

00:00:51.160 by the name of James Baxter. James Baxter probably is unknown to most of you, but you might have

00:00:56.480 heard of his program, called Exodus 90. And we're going to discuss that on today's show,

00:01:02.240 and I think it's going to be a lot of fun. Welcome, James, to the program.

00:01:05.620 John Henry, thank you so much for your time. It's a blessing.

00:01:08.600 So, you are a former seminarian, and then have since decided that's not your calling,

00:01:15.720 started into family life, and now you're doing this program, which you sort of brought

00:01:20.900 from seminary out to the secular world, and it's exploded. So, tell us a little bit about yourself

00:01:26.260 first of all, your background, and how this got to be.

00:01:30.180 Yeah, fantastic. So, James Baxter, I am from Indiana, central Indiana in particular. Went

00:01:35.660 to the public schools K-12 there, but was introduced to a high school boys fraternity that really

00:01:42.880 galvanized my faith, and introduced me, fortunately, to the contemplative life early on. So,

00:01:49.160 that fraternity really revolved around the service at the altar, shaped me, kind of shaped my commitment to

00:01:55.620 living constantly in fraternity and a life of prayer. So, kind of from there, went to a college

00:02:03.340 seminary up in Minnesota. Spent a little bit of time in a Benedictine monastery after that,

00:02:08.700 discerned out into marriage and family life from there. So, yeah. So, Exodus, you know,

00:02:15.740 maybe to clarify one thing, started as a seminary formation program from a mentor of mine out at

00:02:21.560 Mount St. Mary's in Emmitsburg, Maryland, the theological seminary there. So, I wasn't in that

00:02:28.020 seminary, but what had gone on, this experiment that he had started called Exodus, I had heard

00:02:33.760 about for years. And he simply shared with me the testimonies of these men and kind of how they were

00:02:41.500 calling it really the most critical factor in their formation for the priesthood. So, I was going to go on

00:02:46.780 my way, probably go to business school, when he kind of asked a simple question, which was this,

00:02:52.620 you know, if these seminarians are suffering from all these forms of idolatry, what about laymen

00:02:58.220 everywhere who don't have a formation house? You know, and so, my task kind of became, how do we

00:03:03.220 kind of take the notes that were shared and structure them in a way that could be shared? And

00:03:08.900 how could we share that with as many men as we could? So, that's what I've been doing for the last

00:03:12.900 five years. Excellent. Excellent. Okay. So, take us a little bit through the program. What is this?

00:03:21.380 It's one of those, for a lot of people, when they saw it, they kind of look at the requirements and go,

00:03:26.020 oh my gosh, can I really do that? It seems pretty hardcore. Take us through it, if you will.

00:03:31.480 Yeah. So, first, it's, you know, why are we doing this at all? It's all about freedom for us.

00:03:36.060 Obviously, when we look at even at our sacramental rites, the church at our best places, a heavy

00:03:43.480 burden upon freedom, you know, for validity of sacraments in many cases. So, really what this

00:03:51.080 is about is growing in our freedom so that we can love, you know, kind of our fundamental belief,

00:03:59.600 and not everyone will grant this, and this gets us into trouble with certain folks,

00:04:03.020 probably not your audience, is this, that most men are enslaved to different things. And even good

00:04:10.380 men, you know, good Catholic men are enslaved to different things that take away from their true

00:04:16.540 vocations, you know, to marriage or to priesthood. So, Exodus is a 90-day spiritual exercise for men,

00:04:24.040 you know, to grow in freedom. So, anyone, when you look at it, it's like, well, there's really

00:04:29.960 nothing new here. And that's the point. You know, this is about prayer. This is about kind of

00:04:34.220 reclaiming and representing the church's, you know, strong tradition of asceticism with a fraternal,

00:04:41.780 a communal component that's essential for this to work. So, you commit to a daily holy hour. We

00:04:47.520 kind of make that kind of burden, and we place that on everyone. We don't make exceptions to that.

00:04:53.280 So, you need to pray an hour a day, and you need to spend time in mental prayer every day. And so,

00:04:59.060 that's what you commit to.

00:05:00.340 And just for clarification, that holy hour is like an hour of, is it totally sustained,

00:05:07.000 one hour, or is it throughout the day, one hour, or is it even before the Blessed Sacrament,

00:05:11.800 one hour? What are you talking about?

00:05:13.020 So, we recommend an hour before the Blessed Sacrament. Where that's not possible,

00:05:16.620 we say, you know, you've got to get an hour prayer a day. If that's at one time, ideal,

00:05:22.780 great. If not, that's fine. But you've got to spend 20 minutes in mental prayer. When we're not

00:05:28.460 having that intimate conversation with the Lord, when He's not influencing our faculties, well,

00:05:33.480 we just drift, as we all know so well. So, we place that as a heavy burden upon the men. And,

00:05:41.220 you know, kind of from there, you know, with prayer as the foundation, we bring an element

00:05:47.800 of asceticism into this. So, the list can seem kind of burdensome at first. Cold showers are what

00:05:52.820 everybody talks about. Up in Canada, they're quite a bit worse than in Southern California or Florida,

00:05:58.240 you know, or whatever have you. But yeah, we take cold showers. We exercise regularly. We encourage

00:06:04.340 our men to get a full night's sleep. Now, when you have young kids, you know, that might not be

00:06:07.820 possible. But the point is that I just actually had my first child a few weeks ago. So, I, you know,

00:06:15.420 newly aware of that dynamic in reality. But the point is, you know, really by removing our

00:06:23.420 distractions, you should be, you should have more time for sleep. We don't drink alcohol. We don't

00:06:28.800 do desserts or sweets. We don't eat between meals. We fast every Wednesday and Friday. So, just as the

00:06:35.380 church asks us to fast on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, during the 90-day journey, you do that every

00:06:40.940 Wednesday and Friday. You really bracket your use of technology. So, you kind of return it to its place

00:06:47.620 as a tool for your work or for your school. So, any form of, quote, leisure on technology, we remove.

00:06:54.860 So, no social media, video games, sports, movies, etc. Non-essential material purchases, you know,

00:07:04.580 we ask the men to avoid. So, the whole kind of go to Amazon to medicate your problems, we ask that to

00:07:10.680 be removed as well. We then listen only to music that lifts the soul to God. And that's pretty much

00:07:18.440 rounds it out. So, that seems like a lot. And it is kind of a lot. It takes a little bit to get used to

00:07:24.480 when you get into it. Some guys say, like, man, I don't have time for all this or whatever. But

00:07:31.000 when you kind of submit to the regimen, you realize, like, you are overwhelmed with time.

00:07:35.640 You have so much time on your hands. And you kind of see where your heart is. You know,

00:07:40.500 is your heart really with the Lord? Is your heart really with your spouse and your children?

00:07:45.320 You see when you remove your distractions. And a lot of times, that can be a little bit startling.

00:07:49.720 And lastly, you commit to a fraternity meeting. So, this isn't a self-help program as such. This is

00:07:56.100 done with a small, you know, band of brothers. We encourage five to seven. And ideally, there's a

00:08:01.680 priest there to be the director. It's not always possible. But that fraternal component kind of

00:08:07.340 rounds it out. So, again, the fundamental belief for us is that men are enslaved. And men are, I think,

00:08:12.820 the greatest untapped resource in the church. And it's only by committing to a regimen of prayer,

00:08:20.460 asceticism, and fraternity that we're going to be returned into a place of freedom to then respond

00:08:25.180 to our vocations to love. Beautiful. Well, great program. I'm going to get into the nitty-gritty

00:08:30.220 because there's a lot of questions there. So, let's start with cold showers. Everybody's talking

00:08:35.860 about cold showers. I have the privilege of going to visit in-laws in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina,

00:08:41.440 once a year. And we live in very cold Canada. The cold shower difference is, oh, well over 15

00:08:49.200 degrees. Because here, when you turn on the cold water tap, it's nearly freezing. It's just,

00:08:53.320 we don't quite get icicles through the water, but it's pretty much like that. When I'm in Myrtle

00:08:59.280 Beach and I have a cold shower, it's like, oh, yeah, this isn't really cold. There's a big difference

00:09:03.500 there. What do you answer to those people who say, hey, we're from Canada. What's your problem?

00:09:08.740 Yeah. So, I was visiting recently Northern Minnesota and I was lamenting. Those guys

00:09:16.640 were lamenting similarly. So, yeah, you know, the point here is just like, when you wake up in the

00:09:23.100 morning, start the day with a sacrifice. Say no to what you want. Say no to comfort. Pope Benedict

00:09:30.480 said that so beautifully and that quote resounds everywhere, fortunately, that we're not made

00:09:34.820 for comfort. We're made for greatness, right? So, you know, the point of the shower, you know,

00:09:40.500 is simply, you're not going to die, you know? And so, you know, why not start your day in sacrifice

00:09:48.980 and allow that then to be the foundation for the rest of your day? So, our point is this,

00:09:55.080 it's simply an offering. So, you know, as to what degree it is, you know, we kind of leave that on

00:10:01.400 the men to decide what they can tolerate. But that's really what we're trying to provoke in the

00:10:06.660 guys. So, that later on in the day when they just want to sit down, have a beer, watch sports and zone

00:10:11.160 out from life, they're like, no, you know, like I'm committing to saying no to myself dozens of times

00:10:17.280 so that, you know, I can say yes, you know, to hire more important things.

00:10:23.180 Yeah, absolutely. So, this is really to fight all of these slaveries. I guess selfishness is a huge

00:10:29.340 one. Obviously, pornography, not only pornography as a triple X or whatever, but all the pornographies

00:10:36.760 that are out there, which includes the so-called clean, even movies that have all sorts of innuendo

00:10:41.980 and nonsense in them. But then there's also slavery to video gaming and all sorts of distractions with

00:10:49.340 the internet anyway. These are the things you're trying to root out. Yeah, precisely. So, you know,

00:10:54.640 Exodus is not a pornography program as such. You know, for guys that are in the throes of an

00:10:59.460 addiction, they need something else. But at the same time, therapists love Exodus because many times

00:11:05.520 it's the most effective supplement to their clinical therapy work because it's really bringing order to

00:11:10.760 their, you know, their clients, you know, lives, which, you know, they haven't had the smack of in

00:11:15.580 forever maybe. You know, so, you know, and what was interesting, so Exodus really started growing

00:11:23.360 very organically. The whole story, you know, behind it is pretty marvelous. But the bottom line is it's

00:11:28.800 on this massive multiplication effect because men experience a freedom. And when you do, you can't

00:11:34.260 help but share that with others. You know, and so early on, you know, a generous foundation locally,

00:11:42.220 our Sunday visitor, you know, I went to them asking them for support, you know, to accomplish a big

00:11:48.500 goal we had. And they said, you know, before we want to do this, we actually want to fund an

00:11:51.860 independent research study so we understand what exactly is going on here. Why is this growing so

00:11:56.860 much? And one of the things we asked is, why are you coming to Exodus? And what's the benefit to you

00:12:01.340 years afterwards? And what was so interesting was regardless of the dependency from anger to drinking

00:12:07.720 to pornography to masturbation, those dependencies were halved. And this study was done a year after

00:12:13.800 the initial 90-day experience. So, you know, that's why we say, you know, and we don't mean this in a

00:12:18.900 vague sense. We just mean it, you know, whatever your idol, when you submit to the competencies of the

00:12:25.000 church, prayer, asceticism, fraternity, you're going to find yourself in a better place.

00:12:31.040 Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's get into more of those very controversial suggestions.

00:12:35.160 Um, one of the objections that I heard was, um, around no media, no movies. Um, what do you do

00:12:42.860 with, especially, you're married, you're a married man. Uh, what about if your wife says to you,

00:12:47.180 hey, dear, let's, let's watch a movie. What, what do you respond? How do you deal with that?

00:12:52.460 I'm not a great example of this because my wife and I don't actually have a television.

00:12:56.940 Aha. We, uh, we, we have a lot of silence in our house, which is great. Fosters a lot of conversation

00:13:02.860 and, you know, time together. Um, I understand that that's not the rhythm for, for a lot of people.

00:13:07.880 And, and, and especially, um, that, that can kind of be in a way, the routine, like you come home,

00:13:13.200 you sit down, you watch the news or the show or whatever. What we say in that case is simply this,

00:13:18.400 like, this is your exodus and it's not your spouse's, you know? And so it does affect the

00:13:23.380 marriage, but we really encourage men to, you know, operate with this sort of kind of prudence.

00:13:28.840 It's just like, are you, are you just forcing this on your spouse? Um, and if this is that

00:13:33.260 frustrating, you know, you, you need to go about that in a different way. So we actually have a

00:13:37.100 whole kind of onboarding experience for married men. We're like, Hey, this is what this entails.

00:13:41.580 It's a lot. And it could be reorienting your life at home. And we only want you to continue with the

00:13:47.120 blessing of your spouse because it can cause an agitation when that blessing isn't there.

00:13:51.420 Right. But, um, even when spouses are a little bit hesitant by it, so many more by the end are

00:13:58.780 like, wow, I so much prefer the man you've become. This is the man I thought I was marrying,

00:14:03.160 you know, however many years ago, because at the end of the day, these men are just more focused on

00:14:08.420 their spouses again. And, and, and I'm not saying that, you know, obviously there are,

00:14:14.000 you know, some women who maybe don't want that, who are distracted and addicted to their own kinds of

00:14:18.280 vices. Um, but for most women in touch with their femininity, that's, that's not the case.

00:14:23.080 That's precisely what they want. Hmm. Beautiful. Beautiful. You have, um, you mentioned, um,

00:14:32.980 a meetings. So this is, this is also a challenge for people, uh, perhaps people in remote communities

00:14:38.180 like we are, or, uh, people where, uh, you know, they, they don't have a supportive priest and you

00:14:44.060 mentioned seven to 10 guys or whatever you said. Um, how do you get around that when you really

00:14:50.140 don't have a community or if you do, there's not many people interested in it or what do you do?

00:14:55.180 Like, do you have virtual possibilities or what? Yeah. So, um, it's a great question. We, um,

00:15:04.600 virtual fraternities are not ideal. Uh, we've just, we, you know, we learned early on the success rates

00:15:09.800 on those weren't nearly as good as when you're meeting in person in the flesh. Yeah. And, uh,

00:15:14.560 but what we do say is if you've got preexisting bonds with these guys, say it's a brother, say

00:15:19.620 it's a coworker, you know, whoever, a friend from the distant past, those relationships could carry

00:15:25.040 you forward in a remote fashion. We really present this as an evangelical opportunity. You know, men like

00:15:32.680 concrete things. Um, there's something about this as a 90 day process that, you know, you know,

00:15:39.100 men like that. The meeting is very structured. It's not just sit around and share your feelings.

00:15:43.200 It's very liturgical. Um, and it's very structured and, and men like that. And so, um, we just

00:15:49.980 encourage guys to one pray over if this is for them and to pray over who they should invite into this.

00:15:56.160 And, um, oftentimes the Lord has just put, put people on their hearts and then they, you know,

00:16:01.180 kind of have an opportunity. That's not just vaguely, you know, meet with me every week for the rest of

00:16:06.740 forever, but Hey, do this 90 day thing with me. And, um, the response to that can be surprising. Um,

00:16:13.060 so it can be a challenge. It can be a challenge to get out there and ask someone to do something like

00:16:17.800 this, especially when there's a lot of vulnerability at stake. Um, but, but our experience and, and from

00:16:25.780 the resounding feedback we get is that most men are very isolated, very alone in the experience of the

00:16:31.580 church today. You show up to mass, maybe you're greeted or whatever. Um, but you're, you're so

00:16:37.440 rarely known, even if you're volunteering or, or whatever. Um, and that's not to say I'm asking for

00:16:44.860 a liturgical experience. That's, you know, all about sharing your feelings or anything, but

00:16:49.400 where they're at accountability, it doesn't exist or fraternity doesn't exist. Uh, in most people's

00:16:54.860 experience at the contemporary church, uh, Exodus offers a solution and a way out. Um, so we just

00:17:00.320 encourage men to, uh, to kind of get outside themselves, pray over it first, but then get

00:17:05.620 outside themselves and make a concrete invitation. Okay. And you guys are starting up, uh, soon for a

00:17:12.300 kind of end with Lent into, into Easter. Is that correct? Yeah, that's correct. So 80% of the men

00:17:19.100 that come through Exodus every year come 90 days to Easter Sunday. Okay. So it kind of, you know,

00:17:25.040 that start date fluctuates obviously with Easter. Um, what are we at this year?

00:17:29.780 January 13th, that's Monday, January 13th is the big start. And obviously it kind of, you know,

00:17:37.000 couples, you know, especially here in the States, the desires for new year's resolutions with Lent,

00:17:43.580 you know, but most profoundly experiencing the newness of the resurrection, uh, hopefully as a

00:17:49.100 new man. Uh, so, uh, that's the, that's the big time and that's, what's coming up.

00:17:53.340 Beautiful. Well, that's great. There's, there's a bunch more questions that, that I guess people

00:17:58.600 would have, um, where can they learn more about this? Yeah. Exodus 90.com. So, uh, our site is

00:18:05.820 there. Uh, it's, uh, you know, built to just kind of explain what this is. You'll see a lot of

00:18:10.520 testimonials there, um, from, you know, kind of influential folks in the church today to just normal

00:18:16.240 guys who picked this up and found it. Um, what's been amazing to me is how, um, orders, ecclesial

00:18:24.060 movements, um, normal parishes, seminaries are taking this up. And what we say is, um, you know,

00:18:31.020 Exodus is, is a spiritual exercise, you know, and I had the privilege of doing a 30 day silent

00:18:36.460 retreat a few years ago. Uh, and it had its movements to it. It had its times in it. And as

00:18:42.820 we've observed this now in thousands of cases, Exodus has its sort of spiritual movements to it

00:18:48.360 that are pretty, pretty profound, uh, at times very challenging, especially as you remove your

00:18:53.960 medications or distractions. Um, but what that does, it places you in greater vulnerability and,

00:19:00.740 and, and intimacy with Christ, uh, who's, you know, you kind of create the space for him to move you and

00:19:06.220 call you again, you know? And so I, I'd encourage you to check out the site, um, Exodus, you know,

00:19:11.940 we're on a mobile application, so you can look at it there and download it there. If you're ready

00:19:15.240 to get started, um, simply. Mm-hmm. And what do you guys charge for this kind of thing?

00:19:21.820 Yes. So Exodus free to start first week is free. And then it's 10 bucks a month for three months.

00:19:26.860 We are a charity. So there is a giving program at the end of it. Um, but, uh, that's what it costs.

00:19:32.360 So 30 bucks. Great. And, uh, is this, it's like an app that you can use and, and what's the user

00:19:39.760 experience like with the app? Yeah. So user experience it's, so every day during Exodus,

00:19:44.880 you receive a scripture passage and then a reflection, um, that we've written it with

00:19:49.320 weekly action items to accomplish, uh, as well, that kind of help orient your fraternity meeting

00:19:54.460 every week. So content is there. And then it's kind of, uh, you know, what we learned early on was,

00:20:00.540 you know, your, your correspondence with your fraternity is, is, should be, you know, pretty,

00:20:05.180 pretty honest, pretty authentic. And guys were like, yeah, I don't like losing the,

00:20:09.080 those messages within all of my threads. So we built kind of a communication portal,

00:20:13.300 simple text message threads, uh, as well into the application, but it's pretty simple. It's not

00:20:18.540 meant to add to the distraction. If you find yourself distracted on our application, uh, you're,

00:20:23.320 you're a pretty bored person. Uh, it's very simple, very straightforward, very clean, uh, to kind

00:20:29.360 of, you know, facilitate the experience.

00:20:31.180 Beautiful. I love the fact that you guys are, this really does attack something that I think

00:20:36.680 is so core, uh, and in everyone's life, really. And that is selfishness. It's probably the root of

00:20:44.020 so many of our temptations to sin. Uh, and it's something that's so not recognized. Um, and, uh, speak

00:20:52.580 a little bit, if you can, to that, to the, what you've read from the testimonies you've received

00:20:56.960 about the issue of selfishness. Yeah. The thing we hear over and over again is I had no idea how

00:21:04.060 much, and then fill in the blank. And, and in all of those cases, there's something of pride,

00:21:10.000 you know, some, some place where, you know, kind of the ego, you know, you placed yourself on a

00:21:15.900 pedestal, but Exodus humbles you. I mean, when you submit yourself to the Lord daily and you remove

00:21:22.640 your comforts and you're accountable to others, I mean, you are humbled and, and, and it can be

00:21:28.820 really challenging. Um, you know, but the truth is it's, it's humility that places us back in touch

00:21:35.700 with reality that orients, you know, God to be in God, you know, you and your place in his creation,

00:21:41.460 uh, and in the community as well. Um, so it can be really challenging, but most men come to Exodus

00:21:48.440 with a hunch for why they want to, but typically why they stay and where they're at at the end is,

00:21:54.100 is for a completely different reason. And that's typically God's purpose for them, obviously,

00:21:59.440 um, you know, for doing this. Um, yeah. Yeah. Now, um, I love too, that you said this is like an

00:22:07.080 evangelical tool. You can use it as such. So you're talking about finding men in your community who are

00:22:13.340 perhaps not all the way there with the faith, or would you suggest finding more like-minded people

00:22:18.680 per se? That's a great question. Um, I, so I'll just give you a story for me personally. Last year,

00:22:27.300 um, you know, I was, I was newly up to this community. It was in a weird situation I was in

00:22:32.580 where I had to move, um, you know, to, to get the support of a bishop to get us this off the ground.

00:22:38.680 So I did, um, obviously I know you guys go through a lot and we went through a little bit early on.

00:22:45.020 And, um, so I was in this weird situation where I was talking about all these values I am today,

00:22:49.600 but I was in a new place and had nobody. And so, um, it was kind of the time for Exodus to,

00:22:56.640 to kind of, um, you know, be what it is for me in a way that was really kind of profound.

00:23:02.800 Uh, and so what, you know, I was just asking around and, and it ended up forming a core group

00:23:07.860 of, of very practicing good Catholic men, you know, but I really felt like in my prayer,

00:23:13.080 I had been introduced to this Lutheran pastor, uh, in town. And I was like, man, I don't, I don't,

00:23:18.900 and I don't know if I want to invite him into this. Kept praying over it. And it's like, no,

00:23:22.180 long story short, you know, because his experience of the seminary was primary and primarily

00:23:27.320 and only intellectual and not a holistic seminary experience, which is pretty typical, uh, of

00:23:33.240 non-Catholic environments. Um, he, uh, you know, it was, it was really his first experience of

00:23:39.800 formation, you know, and by the end he realized in good conscience, he had to resign from his church

00:23:44.500 because of how drawn he was to Catholicism, resigned, uh, and was received by our Bishop this

00:23:50.280 summer and is now teaching, teaching Catholic theology, which is pretty amazing in our community,

00:23:54.480 you know? And so I say all of that because, um, you know, it is, this is by Catholics. It is Catholic

00:24:02.060 and it's predominantly for Catholics, but Catholicism is a beauty and it attracts. And, um, you know,

00:24:09.920 in that case, you know, someone that wasn't even a Catholic, you know, found so much fruit from,

00:24:14.820 from this exercise. Beautiful. So, beautiful. So, uh, just age wise, um, a lot of people are,

00:24:23.820 especially our audience, they're all over the map. So, we've got young people, older people,

00:24:27.980 middle-aged people. Should you shoot for some kind of homogeneity within your age group or, or

00:24:34.120 is it all anybody and everybody? Yeah. So, we, we encourage groups to be about the same age. Uh,

00:24:41.040 not that there hasn't been benefit to kind of experiencing generational kind of distinctions,

00:24:46.060 if you will. Um, but that's what we encourage. Exodus, I will say this, is a really an anomaly in men's

00:24:53.260 ministry. Most men's ministries, especially in the States, attract older guys who are retired looking

00:24:59.080 for things to do. Uh, over 50% of our, our men are under the age of 34. And that's something we're

00:25:04.900 very proud of. Um, there's something of, I mean, we see this in the orders that really kind of lay

00:25:09.760 down the full claims of the gospel. And we see this here too. I mean, it just draws young people.

00:25:14.520 Um, you know, we just don't make dispensations and, and, and the young love that and, um, it attracts

00:25:23.280 them, it draws them, you know? Uh, so the only thing, you know, the other thing I'd say about that

00:25:28.280 is, you know, if there's a spirituality at the heart of this, it's the desert fathers of the third

00:25:31.800 and fourth centuries. Who's, um, you know, we use their, their work frequently throughout the,

00:25:37.400 our meditations, our reflections, uh, daily. And, uh, you know, young men, they're so rarely exposed

00:25:43.260 to that time in the church, mostly because that's so rarely preached. And so, uh, that, that, that

00:25:48.800 really draws, uh, younger folks. Um, generally that's been our experience in our first few years.

00:25:53.740 Okay. So I'm real interested now and I'm scared to do it cause it's just scary. Um, but, uh, doing it

00:26:02.540 with some people would actually force me to do it, which is good. How do you most entice people to do

00:26:08.680 this? How do you encourage them to do it? What's, what's your best method of encouraging,

00:26:13.260 finding a group to do this with getting people out there with you?

00:26:16.820 I, I, I encourage you to just make a concrete invitation and say like, why, like, why do you

00:26:21.960 want to do this? Is the first thing worth asking, you know, is there something in your way? Is there,

00:26:25.880 you know, is there something at work? Is there, is there a struggle, a sin, you know? And when you're

00:26:30.140 just able to state that to others, they're like, wow, I, and then they, they just, they don't,

00:26:34.760 they don't judge you. They think, wow, I've got that and worse or other things that I'm working

00:26:39.300 through, but have no place of, you know, of moving forward concretely. So, uh, that's what I say is

00:26:44.880 just like make concrete invitations. Um, don't just send a text message. Don't, you know, call

00:26:50.080 somebody up, say, Hey, Fred, I'm, I'm, uh, you know, I'm working too much. I'm working until nine

00:26:56.220 every night. I'm not present, you know, and, and it's becoming an idol, you know, and, uh, it's in

00:27:02.400 my way, you know, and that puts, you know, the other in a place of, you know, really kind of

00:27:06.880 making us a, you know, a discernment of like, yeah, what's in my way. Um, so that's what we say.

00:27:12.440 Great. Great. And it's an, I would think an awesome Lent, uh, where you're, you're completely

00:27:18.740 focused. It's a little bit more like the, um, the, uh, traditional Lent, which was a little bit longer

00:27:24.220 on the, on the front end as well. So, uh, it sounds like great prep. Uh, we've just come through

00:27:30.600 Christmas and, uh, so everybody should be feeling ready to, uh, engage in some kind of, um, uh,

00:27:37.060 self-denial now anyway. So I think that'll be great. Any closing words for, uh, for our audience,

00:27:43.200 James? You know, it's just that for freedom, Christ set us free. St. Paul writes that.

00:27:47.740 And, uh, you know, when we're not free, we can't love. And when we look at the church today,

00:27:52.760 the reason why Exodus has blown up is so many people have been agitated by, by recent events in the

00:27:57.540 church, uh, and without. And, uh, but they want a way to channel some of that agitation to something

00:28:02.820 spiritually beneficial. And we find the rigor and challenge of Exodus has been a great outlet for

00:28:08.420 that. Not to say we, we shouldn't just tell the truth and you, you do a lot of that, um, you know,

00:28:13.240 through your platforms, John Henry. Um, but there's more that we can do than just be, be upset. Um,

00:28:19.700 and there's positive things that we can do to, to unite ourselves more fully to Christ's sacrifice

00:28:24.200 and to offer that for the church. So desperately in need of renewal today. Um, so again, Exodus is

00:28:30.240 not only about your personal gains, but, uh, you know, really bigger spiritual realities at stake

00:28:35.640 today in the church and, uh, your sacrifices can be instrumental, um, not just visibly, but invisibly,

00:28:43.520 more importantly. Um, so yeah, absolutely. You guys are building soldiers for Christ in an amazing

00:28:50.300 way, kind of like the training, uh, the Marines, if you will, uh, the bootcamp for that. Um, give us a

00:28:55.760 closing word on Our Lady's influence, uh, with, with regard to this, because I know this is a men's

00:29:00.020 movement and we're focused on the cross and following Jesus on the cross. How does Our Lady play in, uh,

00:29:05.380 into Exodus 90? Absolutely. So Mary's sway over this, you'll see within the reflections early on,

00:29:12.220 and we'll introduce, um, the rosary at points. And, um, I would just say this, uh, you know,

00:29:18.920 I read a book, um, by Emile Nubair, and I'm mispronouncing his name because I'm not so French,

00:29:25.280 uh, but, uh, called The Life of Union with Mary. And he talks about sort of the Marianization of the

00:29:32.260 soul and how, when we live with Mary, um, we, we really encounter reality in a completely different

00:29:39.560 sort of frame. So that work itself has been massively influential upon how I look at my own faith,

00:29:45.300 um, and, and, and certainly has all kinds of influence over our work here. So, uh, we offer

00:29:51.500 everything, you know, as it relates to our work. We certainly have goals we set every year. We

00:29:56.580 certainly have numbers we try to reach. By the way, on the topic of numbers, I saw you guys eclipsed

00:30:00.860 a hundred million pages. That's right. Just, yep. Just recently. Pretty insane. But on our side,

00:30:07.740 you know, um, rather than stress about numbers, we just commend those to the Blessed Virgin and she

00:30:12.280 takes care of the fruit. Um, so, and that's, you know, that's why, yeah, we've already reached 20,000

00:30:17.880 men, uh, in just a few years working completely independently and having not just no support at

00:30:24.220 the beginning, but definite criticism, um, at the start. And that's, that's very much Mary's kind

00:30:29.640 of carrying us along and, um, and interceding for us before the throne. Beautiful. James Baxter from

00:30:36.440 Exodus 90. Thank you for being with us on the John Henry Weston show. May God bless you.

00:30:40.600 John Henry. God bless you. To everyone out there, give this thing a shot. It will, uh, increase your

00:30:47.160 faith life and make you, you men, that soldier for Christ you need to be in your own heart,

00:30:52.820 in your families and for the church. God bless you all. And we'll see you next time.

Let's be better men. The crisis in the Church is connected to a crisis of manhood

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