Malachi Martin's WARNINGS： Secret Cardinal, Fatima, & the Coming Crisis
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Summary
Rob Morrow, a close friend of Father Malachi Martin, reveals in his new book, "In the Shadows of the Vatican," that Father Martin was a Cardinal of the Catholic Church, but an impactor, a cardinal, a secret cardinal.
Transcript
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The doctors wouldn't use the word miracle, but all they would say is we cannot scientifically
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explain why last night she was at death's door and this morning she's 98% better.
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Hello, my friends. Welcome to the John Henry Weston Show. I have got a super fascinating
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topic for you because this is about a new book being released on the subject of our interview
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today, Malachi Martin. It's called In the Shadows of the Vatican. It's just been released. We've got
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the author here, Rob Morrow, who is a close friend of this hero of a priest, of a Catholic,
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and I'm sure many of you remember the Art Bell interviews. You might have read Winswept House or
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Hostage to the Devil, which was, oh, wow, but we're going to get into it right here. The one thing you
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know that's truly stunning is that he was an impactor, a cardinal. He was a cardinal of the
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Catholic Church, secretly so, and that's being revealed in the book for the first time. You're
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going to want to stay tuned to this episode with Rob Morrow, author of Malachi Martin in the Shadows
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of the Vatican. Rob, welcome to the program. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here, John Henry.
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Let's begin as we always do with the sign of the cross. In the name of the Father and of the Son
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and of the Holy Ghost. Holy Ghost. Amen. Okay, so Rob, this is fascinating. You reveal for the
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first time in this book you've just put out, that's just released, that Father Malachi Martin
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is a cardinal of the Catholic Church, but an impactor cardinal, a secret cardinal. Tell us
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about that. Correct. First of all, it's important to know that when I came to know Father Malachi Martin,
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I was an operations officer in the CIA, the National Clandestine Service. As my confessor, he knew that.
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So that's not something I was going to hide from him. And so he knew he was talking to someone
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working in American intelligence. And it actually came about, the topic actually came about one day
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when we were discussing over lunch, when I had been confirmed. And it was sometime in the late 1970s,
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he asked me a couple of questions about the actual rite of confirmation. And he also asked me, he said,
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did the bishop give you a gentle tap or a gentle slap on your cheek? And I said, no, no. He said some
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words and that was it. But he said, I have grave doubts about the validity of the sacrament you
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received. He said, would you like to be conditionally reconfirmed? And I said, absolutely. And we got a good
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mutual friend of ours to serve as my sponsor. And I asked him, I said, who's going to be the bishop?
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Who's going to do the confirming? And he just looked at me straight up and he said, I am.
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Oh. And then after the confirmation, which was in the old rite pre-1962, after that, when we went out
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to lunch, I said, well, you kind of hit me with pretty big two by four over the head with what
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you told me about being able to confirm me. And then it was about a year and a half, two years later,
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when I was driving him up to an exorcism evaluation up in Wilton, Connecticut, when we were on our way
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back, I recall that Malachi said, you know, they pestered me and pestered me. And I said,
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about what? Is it all very cordial? He says, no. He says, they pestered me and pestered me
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because they wanted an actual Vatican cardinal present for this. And then he looks at me and he says,
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and they didn't even offer me a damn cup of coffee. At that point, you know, I had to correct
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myself because it was like, you know, the winding roads of North Connecticut. I had to make sure the
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jeep stayed on the road when he let that one out. And then when we came to a stoplight, finally,
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I just turned sideways and I looked at him and I said, that little slip you made about a cardinal
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from the Vatican observing. I said, do you mean, and he just, he just, he always wore half glasses
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and he just did this. He looked at me down through the, down his nose to the half glasses.
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And I said, why, why are you telling me this? And he says, because I know you'll keep your mouth
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shut. And I did. I did. The only thing I was told years later, like 20 years after his passing was
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that death absolves one, releases one from all such commitments. I mean, what are they going to
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do to him now? Yeah. Well, praise God for that. The most repeated phrase in scripture is do not be
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afraid. We are called to speak the truth, to proclaim the gospel and to live our lives without fear.
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For the past three years, we've brought this mission to the very heart of the church. At the Rome Life
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Forum, you won't just hear truth proclaimed. You'll have the chance to ask your questions directly to
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the speakers. This is your opportunity to engage, to challenge, and to go deeper into the battles
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we face today. Fear not, her immaculate heart will triumph. So tell us about that. He was made
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cardinal then by John Paul II, or what was that? No, it was prior to John Paul II. It was back
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in the mid-1960s, I believe. Because today, a lot of people who are alive don't really realize what
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the atmosphere was like back then, when the United States was going toe-to-toe with the Soviet Union.
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And, you know, you had Khrushchev banging his shoe in front of the TV cameras saying,
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we will bury you. And the threat of atomic warfare, as they called it, was very, very real. The United
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States and the Soviet Union almost came to nuclear blows over the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962, I believe.
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Yes, the Missiles of October, they called it. It gave the Vatican a big shock. And they decided
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that had a nuclear war occurred, and the Soviets bombed Rome, that they would have decapitated
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not just the Italian government, but the Roman Catholic Church as well.
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So what they did was, they took 12 cardinals in various regions of the world, and they wouldn't be
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called like mini-popes or replacements. They were called to be called apostolic administrators
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for their regions of the world. And Malachy's was for the United States. And he would have been the
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apostolic administrator for the United States in the event of a nuclear war. And I asked him the obvious
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question, but Malachy, what good did that do if they also hit New York or Washington?
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And he just kind of said to me rather elliptically, he says, I would have had notice. I would not be
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in New York City. I didn't push because I already sensed I was kind of on the ground where angels
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fear to tread. Yeah. So in the book, you come across this neat thing because you have
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an accounting of Malachy Martin. So we need to back up for a sec because it's so stunning that
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this is, A, he was an in-Pictoria bishop, let alone a big in-Pictoria cardinal. And then you have
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this situation. So for people who might not remember Malachy Martin, as a lot of us do,
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give us like the 30-second summary of who is Malachy Martin?
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Well, he was born in Ireland in 1921. He, as an Irish Boy Scout, he met with his entire troop.
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He met both Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini prior to the outbreak of World War II.
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In the 1940s, he joined the Jesuits as an older teenager. He was very well-versed in 12 separate
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languages, which is why he went to the Pontifical Biblical Institute later.
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He worked on the Dead Sea Scrolls in the early 1950s in Egypt, not coincidentally where he
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participated assisting in his first exorcism. And in the mid-1950s, after his ordinations of priests
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in 1954 by Cardinal Suenens in Belgium, he was sent on diplomatic missions covertly behind the Iron
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Curtain after the death of Stalin, a couple of years after Khrushchev had taken the reins of power
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in the Soviet Union to assist and nurture the underground church behind the Iron Curtain.
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He was tortured there. He was ultimately released by pressure from the Vatican. Shortly thereafter,
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he became secretary to Augustine Cardinal Bea, the German Jesuit and senior most Jesuit in the church
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at the time. And he was that, he functioned in that role through the Second Vatican Council
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when he approached Paul VI because he saw that the Jesuits were not just in left field. I like to say
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this aphorism all the time. They weren't in just left field. They were outside the ball stadium at that
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point. And he went to Pope Paul VI and he said, I see the trajectory there on your holiness. I cannot
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be part of this organization anymore because they are evolving inevitably into an enemy of the papacy.
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I wish to go, I wish to, to leave the Jesuits, remain a priest, but I wish to go pursue a career
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career in the West in communications as a writer. And that's how he ended up as religion editor for
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William F. Buckley's National Review. He was on William F. Buckley's firing line a number of times.
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Stanford University still maintains the tapes that you can look up on YouTube. He was also an editor
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for the Encyclopedia Britannica and the author of 17 books and an exorcist. So there.
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Yeah. Yeah. Unbelievable. There's lots of fun. I'm sorry. I ran, I ran 92 seconds there. No,
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no, that's great. You can't do justice even minimally. So in 30 seconds of that was incredible.
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So this is an incredible man. If you don't know about Malachi Martin, you really should.
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I think Rob's book is an excellent entree because it gives you the most fascinating accounts from a
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personal friend. Now, I want to get into some of the controversies because some people are old enough
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to remember seeing Malachi Martin, at least on film, you'll notice he appears in Clerics. So he got
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out of the Jesuits and just decided not to wear a collar anymore. It's some of the reason why a lot
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of people would dismiss him. In fact, there was another rumor about him living with a landlady and
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stuff like this. Can you clear up some of those discrepancies that might throw people off about
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accepting him as someone who was really faithful? One anecdote I can give you is that I told him back
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in 1995 that I was going, this was in May 1995, I told him I was going to Rome and that a friend of
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mine had done a beautiful pen and ink rendition of the Virgin of Fatima. And I showed it to him and I said,
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I would like to present this to His Holiness the Pope. And he said, let me see what I can do. Meet me back
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here tomorrow for lunch at the same time. And I should have something for you. He, I met him for
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lunch. He slid an envelope across the table to me. He said, take this to Monsignore so-and-so at the
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Pontifical Liberal Institute, and he will get you into a semi-private audience with His Holiness Pope
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John Paul II before the main audience that he has on Wednesdays in the Nervy Hall. And I did.
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I went with a friend of mine from New Jersey. Of course, he had to be named Vinny. But we went,
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we got there at 7.30 the next morning and we waited. We were in a group of about 20 people
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and His Holiness came in. And I was about as close to His Holiness as you are to the backdrop behind you.
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And I guess it was either Monsignor or Bishop Jivish was walking with him. And the Pope's,
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His Holiness saw it. It's in the book. You see me handing something to the Pope. And His Holiness
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then gave me a set of those white papal rosaries John Paul II was fond of giving out. So, I mean,
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he had access to get me in right to the Pope, right to the top. Do not pass go. Do not collect
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$200. You know, that's one anecdote I'd like to say. People ask me, well, did he have credibility?
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Did he have access? He placed one phone call and 10 days later, I was shaking hands with Pope St.
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John Paul II. Now, people ask about his landlady, Mrs. Kakia Lavanos. Mrs. Lavanos,
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I believe, was several years older than Malachi. She was a widow. She was actually Greek Orthodox.
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And she had an extremely icy demeanor. Once she accepted you as someone who was not out to
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manipulate Malachi, she treated you like a member of the family. But until you passed through the
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Kakia Lavanos crucible, she always had her guard up around you. She was his gatekeeper because so
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many people wanted to be in touch with him. So, I was there at the apartment more times than I can
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count. I got to know the Lavanos family well. And I can say with absolute swear on my eternal soul's
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destiny, I never saw a single inappropriate moment between the two of them. If there was love,
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it was the love defined with caritas, charity. There was never anything inappropriate. Never.
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And I would die on that hill, as they say. She was extremely protective. But a lot of people don't
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know, and I think you and I were chatting about this off camera, was that years ago in Europe, it was not
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uncommon for more aristocratic or upper-class families to have a priest in residence. And we were
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talking about how the von Trapp family actually had Monsignor Wassner as their live-in priest who
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said Mass for them, dispensed the sacraments, but also gave their children a thoroughgoing education in
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music. He was omitted from the sound of music, but there is almost a direct one-to-one parallel you can
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draw there. So, there was never anything inappropriate. She was his landlady. He lived in a completely
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separate, tiny apartment that was within. They had the floor of the third floor, sixth floor. It was
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a floor of 116 East 63rd Street, one of those giant pre-war apartment buildings. And his apartment
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was nestled like a cubby inside that floor, the third floor of that apartment house. So, he had his own
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bath, you know, his own facilities. Let's not give the impression it was a luxurious place. It was maybe
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14 feet by 15 feet in total. And books took up most of it, along with a small bed for sleeping,
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a desk for writing, and he had a small portable altar there that he said Mass on every day.
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So, very much still an active priest. What was his reason for not wearing clerics in the street?
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First of all, he did not want to draw attention to himself. He believed in wearing traditional Roman
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clerics, cassock and surplice. Well, not a surplice in the street, but a cassock. And he didn't want to
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draw attention to himself. And he had the option of not dressing like a layman. So, he didn't. He did
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not want to draw attention to himself dressing a cassock. However, I did serve Mass for him,
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the traditional Latin Mass many times. And every time I served Mass for him, he was dressed like a
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traditional Roman priest, Roman Catholic priest, cassock surplice, you know, all the clerical
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vestments you assume you associate with the traditional Latin Mass. That's right. We should
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mention, too, he wasn't known as a priest in the Archdiocese of New York as well.
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Correct. Correct. People on the street knew him as Dr. Martin.
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Yeah. Here's this fascinating character, one of the anecdotes you share, and it was known about him
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that he was an exorcist. But he had some kind of spiritual gifts in that regard. Tell us what those
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were. He had a very close relationship with his guardian angel. I mean, he told me many times that
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that was one of the most overlooked traditions of the post-conciliar church was devotion to and
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cultivation of your guardian angel. He was taken under the wing of an organization called Opus
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They are, in fact. Bishop Athanasius Schneider belongs to that organization.
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Okay. Then Bishop Schneider would have been enrolled. He would have had the same training
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courses, meditations, prayers. It's not just a flip the switch and fill out the form and,
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you know, you're automatically in. It takes a while, as I recall. And Malachi joined that organization,
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and he cultivated his guardian angel. In fact, the prayer of dedication to his guardian angel is
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something I included at the back of the book. It's in there. And it's in his own handwriting.
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And you can see that he was actually accepted into the organization of the guardian angels by
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his so-called sponsor within the organization, a Carmelite named Father Zachary Monet. He has now
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gone to his eternal reward. One of the things with Father Martin was, or Cardinal Martin, I guess you
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could say, but was the miraculous that you tell in your book that I had never heard of before.
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Tell us about that. I had a friend whose sister-in-law was pregnant. And she found out in her,
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towards the end of the fifth months of pregnancy, that she was diagnosed with stage three AML leukemia,
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which to my understanding is the most virulent kind of leukemia there is. It's the kind that,
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you know, lays waste to the body's immune system and blood cells. And she was told by the doctors
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at Mount Sinai in New York, in order for us to treat you successfully for this condition in your bone
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marrow, you will have, you will have to lose the child. It was basically, they would induce abortion.
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And she said, no, I'm not willing to do that. I don't want to harm the baby. So she carried the
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baby to term, but they were very, very clear that in doing so, she ran the risk of having the disease
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progress to the point where they could not save her life. The baby would be okay, but they would not
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be able to save her life. They would try. After the baby was delivered, it was immediately taken out
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of the room because just the natural microbes that a newborn infant carries could have proved lethal to
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her with her diminished immune system. I'm not going to claim to be an expert in immunobiology.
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However, there is a certain threshold in a milliliter of blood that there has to be so many white cells
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per milliliter in order for the body's immune system to function properly. I think it's in the
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tens of thousands range per milliliter of blood. And she was down, I believe in the hundreds. The
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doctors actually told her husband, you need to prepare yourself for your wife's passing.
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I mean, that's a very heavy slap across the face.
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And I just asked my friend who was her sister-in-law, I said, you know, along the lines of
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any port in a storm would, and she knew Malachi, by the way. I said, would you mind if Malachi just,
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if I asked him, would he come up to Mount Sinai Hospital and give a blessing? And she said,
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if he would, please, yes. So about a day and a half later, Malachi and I went up and we both went
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in the room. And her condition was such that the doctors were like, look, you don't have to wear
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masks or anything because of her condition. It's terminal. It was that far from being on hospice care.
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But we were just allowed into the room. And he took out a small pix, but it's the kind of pix that
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holds the little swab of holy oil in cotton in it. And he just took that and he blessed her on her
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forehead with it. He said a prayer in Latin. And then from his inside jacket pocket, he took another
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small reliquary and held it to her forehead. And he said a prayer in Latin with his eyes closed.
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And I remember her looking at him very plaintively. And she asked him straight out,
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am I going to die? And he looked right back at her and said very directly, no, ma'am,
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you're not going to die. You may think that the antics of your teenage son many years from now is
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going to drive you to an early grave, but this is not going to kill you.
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And we left shortly thereafter. It was not a prolonged meeting. Maybe if it lasted six,
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eight minutes, it was a long time. We're on our way down the elevator.
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And I asked Maliki, you know, when she asked you, is she going to die? And you said, no.
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I said, were you saying that kind of in the way people always try and
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cheer up a terminally ill patient at a hospital when they say, don't worry,
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they're always researching new medicines and therapies.
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Were you just trying to keep her spirits up? And he just gave me the dirtiest look. It didn't answer,
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but he gave me the dirtiest look of, Rob, you're asking me that question. You purport to be a
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believing Roman Catholic. You've known me for how, and you're asking me that. And then the next day,
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I get this overjoyed call from her sister-in-law saying that they ran two separate panel,
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blood panels at Mount Sinai. The doctors could not find a trace of leukemia and that her T cell count
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was thoroughly in the middle of the normal range, which is why they waited three hours between both
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blood panels because they wanted to make sure they were not getting a false reading.
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It's very interesting. The doctors wouldn't use the word miracle. They wouldn't use the word,
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but all they would say is we cannot scientifically explain why last night she was at death's door
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and this morning she's 98% better. This just doesn't happen. AML leukemia doesn't spontaneously go away.
00:23:48.560
So let's talk about probably what Malika Martin is most famous for in people's minds today who still
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hear him because those Art Bell interviews, they made the rounds back in the day in the 90s that
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such that they're remembered today. It's on the internet. You can go listen to it on YouTube.
00:24:09.000
Oh yes. First of all, what were they about and why the big stir?
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Well, I think the big stir is because of Art Bell's base of guests. If it was strange, odd, provocative,
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pick your appellation. He was interested because he was an entertainer and he was concerned with
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generating ratings. Maliki appeared on his show because Maliki saw a way to reach a population
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of people who otherwise would not hear these things about the traditional Roman Catholic Church.
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And he dealt with a lot of the strange and odd questions with grace and understanding. He never
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compromised on the Catholic faith. And he saw that as reaching a different segment of a national and
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potentially worldwide apostolate via radio. His more technical Roman Catholic theological-based
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discussions with Bernard Janssen of Triumph Communications, I believe up in Canada,
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are still available at triumphcommunications.com. And they show a side of Maliki that is much more
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formally doctrinaire, I guess. Whereas it was kind of a wild west on the Art Bell show.
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Indeed. Indeed. He did talk though, a lot about prophecy. And obviously that was the subject there.
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They spoke of Three Days of Darkness and all the stuff that you would figure Art Bell would be
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into covering. And Maliki didn't shy away from it at all. But what was his connection to prophecy? Did
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he study Fatima? What was his connection there? He had a direct connection to the third message of
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Fatima. He was the secretary, the executive assistant, as it were, to Augustine Cardinal Bea.
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And in 1960, Cardinal Bea told him to meet him on such and such a day at the entrance of the apostolic
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palaces in St. Peter's Square. He did. It was early in the morning. And he said he accompanied Cardinal
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Bea up to the apostolic palaces and was told to wait and cool his heels in like an antechamber to the papal
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apartments. And he said, he saw and recognized a number of senior cardinals, like Cardinal Suenens,
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Cardinal Ottaviani, Cardinal Martini, who would become Paul VI. And he says they went into the
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Pope's apartments. The doors were closed. There was a Swiss guard outside. And he said it became very
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obvious that after about 45 minutes, the discussion inside the apartments had elevated to the level of
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shouting, because he could hear it indistinctly through the door. Finally, he said Cardinal Bea came
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charging out, didn't even look at him, just said, as he was muttering under his breath, he just said,
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Maliki, kommen Sie. This was German. They went back down. They got in the back of Cardinal Bea's car,
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which was waiting downstairs. And Maliki looked at him, said to him in German, you know,
00:27:23.660
Eminenzia, was los, what's wrong? And Cardinal Bea told him in German, those fools have just condemned
00:27:32.500
millions upon millions of people to a horrible fate. And Maliki said, what do you mean? And he said,
00:27:41.740
Cardinal Bea pulled a single sheet of paper out from inside his clericals and told Maliki,
00:27:48.400
if you read this, you may not reveal the full contents unless you are released from the pontifical
00:27:56.780
secret by the Pope himself. Do you accept this under those conditions? And Maliki said, yes. And he said,
00:28:03.860
Cardinal Bea handed it to him. It was a German language translation on one sheet of paper of the
00:28:09.880
third message of Fatima. He said he read it, handed it back to Cardinal Bea, and that's how he came to know
00:28:18.080
the message of the third message of Fatima. Whoa. Okay. So then all of this talk, then the hinting
00:28:28.240
was based on real knowledge of... Oh, first hand knowledge of the secret. Yes.
00:28:34.820
Wow. He didn't even shy away from another apparition that is not nearly as accepted as Fatima. And that's
00:28:44.440
Garabandal. And it's interesting because I know Padre Pio was a huge fan of Garabandal, but
00:28:48.800
the Garabandal phenomenon, especially today is kind of, it's controversial because, you know,
00:28:55.340
there's these seers and the stuff they predicted, the warning and miracle stuff hasn't happened yet.
00:29:01.540
Where did Father Maliki Martin stand there? He came down firmly in favor of Garabandal. He arranged a
00:29:08.680
meeting for me back in 1996 at Conchita Gonzalez's, I believe it was Thursday evening holy hour that she
00:29:18.060
would have with a rosary for the intentions of the Pope. Yes. Yes. She was a lovely lady, very demure,
00:29:26.740
almost on the shy side. No one asked her about Garabandal. You just kind of got the vibe that
00:29:33.640
it's off limits. We're here to pay worship and, you know, honor to the mother of God and her son.
00:29:41.320
We're not here to try and pry details out of Conchita. But he arranged that for me. It was lovely.
00:29:48.520
He said he, you know, he thought that Garabandal was the natural extension of the message of Fatima.
00:29:56.640
And he brought out something that I never really thought of before. He said, you notice that in
00:30:01.660
1960, everyone was expecting that the Pope would reveal the third message of Fatima. Then comes out
00:30:09.840
the famous message from the Vatican press office, not going to happen. And then what happens almost
00:30:16.940
right afterwards? Our Lady begins appearing in Garabandal, Spain, as if she is not going to let
00:30:24.360
the direness of her message be thwarted by what Malachi called the fecklessness of the Roman
00:30:32.460
Curia. I asked him straight up, can you tell me what's in the third secret? I would try and I would
00:30:38.220
try and Hem and Hodges come at it from different angles, different days, different angles. It's like
00:30:43.400
when they give you the Myers-Briggs personality test, they ask the same question, but they ask it six
00:30:49.380
different ways at different points in the test. And that's what I would do with the third secret of
00:30:53.840
Fatima. And finally, he said to me, go look up what Pope John Paul II said in Fulda, Germany in 1980.
00:31:00.260
And this was when the internet was in its infancy. At the time, I was, you know, I was a functioning CIA
00:31:05.720
officer and I was able to research that, find it out. And apparently a group of German pilgrims in 1980
00:31:14.000
asked Pope John Paul II, prior to the assassination attempt, holiness, why hasn't the third message of
00:31:20.360
Fatima been released? And he said, the Pope said this, he said, my predecessors in the seat of Peter
00:31:27.680
have diplomatically preferred to withhold its publication so as to prevent the worldwide power
00:31:33.500
of communism from undertaking certain movements against the West. And then he said, if you're only
00:31:42.540
interested in what the message says to satisfy either prurience or a thirst for the sensational, then is there
00:31:54.280
really, he asked a rhetorical question, is there really any point in wanting that secret released anymore
00:31:59.980
anyway? And then he held up his rosary and he said, it should be enough for all Christians to know this. And this is
00:32:08.040
the quiet part out loud. If there does exist such a message that talk about great earthquakes, that talk
00:32:16.100
about oceans flooding huge parts of the planet from one minute to the next, and you're only interested in
00:32:23.480
that message because it's so sensational and you're convinced nothing can be done about it, what's the
00:32:31.200
point of publishing? And he held his rosary up higher and he said, here, here is your weapon. Pray this and ask
00:32:38.000
the mother of God for nothing else. He said, how many times has the renewal of the church been
00:32:45.380
affected in the past in the blood of the faithful? He says, this time it will not be otherwise. We can
00:32:52.820
perhaps mitigate it through our prayer, but it's something that must happen. So to me, that's saying the
00:33:00.760
quiet part out loud. I used to be, when I was first in the agency, I used to be a military analyst for the
00:33:07.540
agency. And I studied the Soviet Union, the ground forces of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact.
00:33:15.880
Every day, we had to look at the film to see whether or not there was any disposition change.
00:33:22.680
And these pilgrims, they met with the Pope at Folger, Germany, which
00:33:37.480
And on the other side, you had the elite Category A
00:33:45.260
they called them. And they were the divisions that were supposed to be
00:33:49.440
ready to invade the West on 24 hours standing notice.
00:33:52.860
It was a flashpoint. The Fulda Gap is what it was called. It was a flashpoint
00:33:58.220
in the Cold War. And that's why the Pope went there, to undermine the seriousness
00:34:06.600
Last question for you, Rob. Today, we've started to hear a lot about
00:34:10.800
one of the other prophecies at Fatima, if you will, the diabolic disorientation,
00:34:16.260
a kind of confusion in the Church that would last. Did Malachi tell you anything about that?
00:34:21.480
Yes, he did. He was very blunt about it. His final two books,
00:34:28.080
The Keys of This Blood, and then followed up immediately by
00:34:31.300
Winswept House a couple of years later. The Keys of This Blood was the graduate-level text
00:34:36.780
about what Pope Sean Paul II was trying to do against the capitalist West
00:34:41.180
and, at the same time, Mikhail Gorbachev. Winswept House was a faction,
00:34:48.020
a fictional story telling real facts, a factional novel that put into practice what he wrote about
00:34:56.600
in The Keys of This Blood. And he said to me many times that the goal of the modernists
00:35:04.620
who were seeking to take control of the Church, and he said by the 1990s, they were already firmly
00:35:10.700
in control of most of it. And he said the Church would have to go underground. And I said, why?
00:35:16.900
And he said, because in their rush to build man's world, as Paul VI said when he came to the United
00:35:24.320
Nations in New York, that he wanted to cooperate in building man's habitat on Earth. Nothing about
00:35:31.120
death, judgment, heaven, hell, the four last things. Totally this worldly phenomena in which
00:35:37.540
transcendence was completely lost. Malachi said, in the not-too-distant future, and I said, how far?
00:35:44.620
He said, not long after I'm playing R, he said the Church would have the appearance of being just
00:35:49.360
another NGO, and it would start to lose its credibility. So that's what he said about
00:35:54.000
diabolical disorientation. And he also said that there would be an underground Church,
00:36:00.220
which Catholics who believed in their authentic faith, because he said the one thing the conciliar
00:36:06.760
Church had lost, and I think this is important to stress to your audience, is the concept of what
00:36:12.420
he called intimacy with the divine. He said, we have that intimacy when we receive our Lord,
00:36:19.800
body, blood, soul, and divinity, at a valid mass. He says, for the time that the host,
00:36:26.380
until our body breaks it down. He says, we are actually physically united with Jesus Christ,
00:36:32.700
as if we were walking with him on the shores of the Sea of Galilee 2,000 years ago. He says,
00:36:40.540
and the modern church, that's why I wrote in my book, in the part of the introduction,
00:36:45.520
when I was in first grade, and it was the traditional Latin Mass in Elizabeth, New Jersey,
00:36:52.700
and poor Monsignor Heimbach, the pastor, he dropped the host. Now, when a priest in 1965 dropped the host,
00:37:02.320
you would have thought that World War III had been declared over the school PA system. I mean,
00:37:07.060
you had brigades of altar boys coming out with all kinds of special implements, and cleaners, and cloths.
00:37:13.540
And now, you know, fast forward 30 years, they find, it's not unusual to find hosts
00:37:20.320
in the pew, on the ground. You take it up to, I took one up to a priest, and he said, oh, thank you.
00:37:27.000
He put it in his pocket. The intimacy with the divine has been lost. If you really believe,
00:37:33.600
if you really believe, I once asked a priest recently, a Novus Roto priest, I said, Father,
00:37:38.440
why don't you use Eucharistic prayer number one, based on the old Roman canon? And he says,
00:37:45.720
if I use that Eucharistic prayer, I start to get dirty looks from the people in the front pews,
00:37:50.840
and they make a point of looking at their watches.
00:37:52.840
So, I'm thinking to myself, okay, so your mentality is, get them in and get them out,
00:38:02.360
and keep those collections coming. And I'm thinking to myself, does this priest really believe
00:38:09.740
that he is re-presenting, in a bloodless manner, the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus on Calvary?
00:38:18.360
Does he really believe if he's got to shave eight minutes off the service so he doesn't annoy some
00:38:24.960
of the people in the pews? Look at what you're doing. Look at what you're doing. There is no
00:38:31.460
intimacy with the divine. Our lives back in the 1940s, 50s, and early 60s were suffused with it.
00:38:40.240
Being Catholic meant something very unique. And now it's go along to get along. There are two
00:38:48.060
churches. I'm not going to put words in your mouth, but right now, I think we can arguably say
00:38:53.100
Fulton Sheen's prophecy about the ape of the church is coming true. There's the synodal church,
00:38:59.440
which I don't even know what the heck it means, and the Roman Catholic church. And sooner or later,
00:39:06.500
they're going to have to choose. People are going to have to choose. That's why your guest the other
00:39:11.160
day is Zavir Ibral. He was talking about the next iteration of what the ecumenical liturgy is going to
00:39:18.160
look like. Malachi told me back in 1998 that there were voices in Rome working on something that would
00:39:25.300
be ecumenically acceptable to most Protestant denominations, including the evangelicals.
00:39:31.700
And I said, how is that possible? He said it would be called the retus simplex in Latin,
00:39:38.460
the simple right. He said, but it would gut the words of our Lord's consecration.
00:39:45.240
And it would mean it would not be the sacrifice of the mass. It would not be a valid mass because it
00:39:51.660
would not include hoc es enum corpus meum. This is my body. And it would not include the hic ex
00:39:59.700
colics sanguinis mei, et cetera, et cetera. Novi etterini testamenti, et provobis et promoltis,
00:40:08.860
et cetera, et cetera. It will not contain that. It'll be something similar, but it'll be Vatican
00:40:18.240
weasel wording, but the Protestants will be able to completely buy off on. He says, that's when you'll
00:40:24.140
know. That will be the ultimate sign. But the people that reject that in the Catholic Church,
00:40:30.520
they will be called the schismatics because they will see them. They will be said of them,
00:40:37.080
well, you're not in union with the Holy See and what the National Catholic Bishops Conference is
00:40:42.400
doing. The USCCB, you have to accept this. And that's going to have to be a hill that,
00:40:47.840
parenthetically, again, I don't want to sound corny. People are going to have to choose whether or not
00:40:52.200
to die on. Rob, thank you so much for being with us. Ladies and gentlemen, Malika Martin
00:40:57.100
in the shadows of the Vatican, Robert Morrow Jr., wherever good books are sold. Pick it up. I would
00:41:01.580
very much encourage it. It's a boost to your faith. And you'll get to know, if you don't know him
00:41:05.900
already, a heroic figure in the church, one of the early canceled priests, as it were. And gosh,
00:41:13.940
he gives a good credit to that name. Secret cardinal in the church, no less. Thank you so much,
00:41:20.700
Rob. God bless you. God bless you. Thank you. And God bless all of you. And we'll see you next time.
00:41:28.600
Aloha, everyone. This is Jason Jones for Lifeside News. We hope you enjoyed this video.
00:41:33.900
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