Bobby Angel is a husband and father, an author, and speaker. He has a new book out on the post-Marxist predicament, "Everything is Marxist." In this episode, he talks about his conversion to Catholicism, and how he came to the faith.
00:05:12.360It's not, well, it's Jesus, it's Jesus for you or not for me.
00:05:15.080It was either we are crazy as Catholics, and we are a little bit, but good crazy.
00:05:20.740But either we're crazy and this is dangerous, or it's really him.
00:05:24.280And that wasn't like an on-the-spot conversion, but it was definitely kind of, I needed to take this seriously.
00:05:30.920And it was through when I was 18, so I just graduated high school, about to start my undergrad at the University of Florida.
00:05:38.100I went on a Steubenville conference trip to their main campus in Ohio, and I got rocked.
00:05:45.020Like, I could point to you the exact spot in the field house arena where the Saturday night adoration brought me to tears.
00:05:53.000And, like, it was just that encounter and being slowly, again, people sowing the seeds, teachers and priests and my parents over the years.
00:06:00.260But then sometimes we just can't control when is God going to just break through?
00:06:06.920And when am I going to allow him to break through?
00:06:10.020And for some people, that's very late in life.
00:06:11.840For some people, like, I have a great affection for blessed, soon-to-be Saint Carlo Acutis and, like, his deep faith as a young boy.
00:06:21.260You know, for anyone listening, it's tough sometimes when we see our loved ones leave the church or are in a period of wandering.
00:06:29.320But no one is ever too far gone, and we don't know the great plan.
00:06:33.000And, again, God respects our freedom for us to let down our walls.
00:06:38.200Like, we can't control that moment of conversion, but I haven't.
00:06:41.080Nothing's been the same ever since in the best possible way.
00:06:43.720Beautiful. And I thank you for the admonition to parents whose children are just so many in that situation that that's super encouraging.
00:06:53.840Interesting. So let's get back to your philosophy thing.
00:06:56.900So this is really something for most people, because for older folks, it's the difference between JP II and Benedict, the philosopher and the theologian.
00:07:04.860But I think for young people, because classical education is almost a thing of the past, I hate to say that, but by and large it is, even for Catholics,
00:07:12.560they're missing what philosophy even is, let alone interest in it.
00:07:17.300And the question is, what for? Give us your best.
00:07:21.360You know, we all have a philosophy, whether we admit it or not, because it really is that set of beliefs of what do I inherently, what is my default stance towards?
00:07:31.120What does it mean to be a human person? And what is the good life? And what do I mean by truth?
00:07:35.780So even if we haven't really articulated a set of ideas for ourselves, we've absorbed very much what the culture has given us.
00:07:44.280And that too, realizing, you know, the ancients and the medievals, they saw the world in a very different way.
00:07:52.920We have been handed this very materialistic and nihilistic set of glasses to see the world through.
00:08:01.100And if you want to believe in religion or spirituality, that's quaint, that's nice, but that's not really real.
00:08:06.480That's just kind of the default mode we're given.
00:08:08.880And to realize, actually, the ancients and the medievals were much more dialed into there is a spiritual reality all around us.
00:08:19.380And it is worth chewing on the fact that, you know, if we assume and hold true that we are made in the image and likeness of God,
00:08:27.200then we are good, then creation is good, then we are not accidents, and the body matters.
00:08:32.180And you cannot compartmentalize these things, which is often why the medieval time period is skipped over.
00:08:41.660If you take a philosophy course in undergraduate, I found it was the sequence usually goes Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, and then nothing happened until the Enlightenment.
00:08:54.000And it just was the Dark Ages is the pejorative term.
00:08:58.380The evil Catholic Church was keeping people from being educated.
00:09:02.160And when you actually start reading, like, what happened?
00:09:05.480It's the philosophy, really, the Catholic Church kept philosophy alive.
00:09:08.460The Catholic Church kept education and the monks that were transcribing the works of Aristotle and the ancients.
00:09:15.440It's as Europe had fallen into, out of the unity under the Roman Empire, into these chaotic warring tribes.
00:09:23.340It's the Catholic Church that actually held society together.
00:09:39.920So we're not just going to leave the dead by the river.
00:09:42.480We're not going to leave the dead by the street side.
00:09:44.400We're actually going to create these buildings called hospitals and take care of people.
00:09:48.580And we're actually going to create these things called universities and educate people.
00:09:53.580So, and when you see the flowering, too, of art and architecture, it's because the philosophy was the human person has infinite dignity because we're creating the image and likeness of God.
00:10:07.620And so that affects the wider, again, how do I operate through life?
00:10:11.720And now if you live, just to wrap this point up, if you, we now live in this time where it's kind of inverted, we're no different than the animals.
00:10:31.100So you've had this extreme devaluing of the human person.
00:10:35.760And so, and a loss of this greater purpose and mission for our lives.
00:10:42.000So it's no wonder that our art and architecture suffers.
00:10:45.680It's no wonder why, how we even, like, the ability to look at another human person as someone of dignity and worth, if they're not useful.
00:10:53.880We have this utilitarian lens, too, of you're only valuable if you're useful.
00:10:58.720Well, what does that say about the unborn?
00:11:00.460What does it say about the elderly or the sick or if you're injured?
00:11:05.480You know, so this is the inheritance worth reclaiming and navigating.
00:11:10.520Like, we can't wind the clock back, but we can reclaim different elements, especially within the Catholic tradition that has given us so much to make a way forward.
00:11:21.560That's great. So, I mean, this is funny because I think a lot of people will wonder, it's a set of beliefs that the ancients had or the medievals had.
00:11:56.620Do you come across that and how do you counter that?
00:11:58.720I come across, yeah, either just this kind of stubborn historical arrogance.
00:12:03.240Like, just because we're here in 2025 means we know everything and we have nothing to learn from the people before us.
00:12:09.920Like, and I mean, Lewis and Chesterton called out those attitudes for sure.
00:12:16.040Like, actually, they probably saw reality better than we do.
00:12:19.640We have now less, a goldfish has a greater attention span than we do.
00:12:24.720When they see the world as infused by a divine beauty and a spiritual reality, perhaps, and Peter Kreeft is one of my favorite authors and philosophers, and he just has that childlike wonder.
00:12:38.860We can pursue knowledge, but recognize I don't know everything and have a posture of humility towards it all.
00:12:46.260What I find a lot too, especially amongst, you know, my generation and younger, just kind of the spirit of meh.
00:12:52.920And almost this, like, your truth is great, you know, my truth, which is, it makes my eye twitch when you hear that language, because it's either true or it's not true.
00:13:04.280But that too is just how that has been so watered down.
00:13:22.920And the fragmentation is very much also in line with this postmodern thought of we're all just these little individual cells.
00:13:32.020And the great narrative, like, there is no grand narrative to society as such.
00:13:37.820It's just we all have our own little stories, our own little narratives, our own little, we are our own centers of our own universes.
00:13:44.280So you talk about, like, the shared values of a culture, the shared values of a country, those rapidly diminished because now my ego is king.
00:13:53.520One of the things you said is very, I think, central to what we're experiencing, the predicament, you might say, that we're in right now.
00:14:04.620I know John Paul II spent first part of one of his great works on this issue of use.
00:14:09.780The whole, like, first chapter is all on use and what it means and everything else.
00:14:13.580But there's a very great truth to that in this respect.
00:14:17.240The problem of pornography and of basically ogling the other person for the sexual gratification you can get from just ogling the other person.
00:14:49.780What is your idea of the human person?
00:14:51.420If all we are is matter, then consent is the only thing.
00:14:58.060And you see now that universities, that is the only benchmark they have.
00:15:02.160They cannot say in a code of ethics, don't treat people like objects, because that is somehow seen as moralizing.
00:15:09.140When 20 years ago, that could be said just as basic etiquette and have people have dignity, treat them with respect.
00:15:15.780But now it's the only thing we got going for us is consent.
00:15:19.580And the Christian understanding comes at it as if you are made in the image and likeness of God, then you have inherent dignity, inestimable worth.
00:15:33.380No one should be treated like an object, even if they consent to it.
00:15:36.680And getting to work and teach at an all-boys school, there was a lot of these conversations, because we live in such a pornified world.
00:17:45.420Pope Pius XI said men must look for the peace of Christ in the kingdom of Christ.
00:17:53.620And he urged that the faithful give public honor to Christ the King so that individuals and states would submit once more to the rule of their Savior.
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00:18:18.740One of the practical tips, if you will, because a lot of people will struggle with this.
00:18:22.480It wasn't only John Paul II who said, even if you look at a woman with lust, you commit adultery.
00:18:30.560And so practically speaking, one of the, I heard once, actually it was a former porn star who started a ministry to get people out of it and to talk to men specifically.
00:18:41.660And she said, basically she made the comparison between the young men's or whatever doing that.
00:18:51.140Imagine if it was your mother or your daughter.
00:18:53.820And that mind shift, I think really helps to get people to switch their vision from one of use to one of the dignity of the person.
00:19:07.640Because that person comes, because of the family relation, comes with a dignity that they can recognize right away.
00:19:14.340So I think that's helped a lot of people.
00:19:16.180But also, you know, you're in this situation where you are raising your own children into such a world.
00:19:24.640What are you going to do to defend your children?
00:19:28.200How are you going to work with your wife to bring your children up so that they aren't, you know, infested and infected so much by all of this?
00:19:38.160Yeah. And we can't give a, we don't have.
00:19:40.320So there's always got to be personal inventory of how am I doing?
00:19:45.200And do I have the right accountability and the right safeguards up?
00:19:51.040And especially as a father, am I protecting my house?
00:19:54.100And also, so on the one hand, monitoring what content comes in.
00:20:02.480A lot of this also is sometimes it's a cousin, it's a friend, it's someone on the bus that just shoves it in your kid's face.
00:20:11.320So it's just being aware of sometimes it's out of our control, but to have the age-appropriate conversations and to say, listen, hey, like we don't let our kids go on YouTube alone, like unless we're there navigating it for them.
00:20:25.580You know, we're monitoring what they're watching while also educating them that, hey, here's what's going on in the world.
00:20:34.340Like here's what some people choose to do.
00:20:35.780So like having had hard conversations with our older kids about what abortion is.
00:20:41.880And there's a really great book, Good Pictures, Bad Pictures, which gets into the fact that, hey, listen, not everything on the Internet is great.
00:20:48.800And also, you know, sin just festers in the dark.
00:20:53.300And that fear of my parents are going to be mad at me.
00:20:58.700Wanting to foster the open channel of communication, like, hey, if you see anything, you come and tell us.
00:21:03.480Like, we're not going to be mad at you.
00:21:04.580Like, a lot of kids shove it down because I'm afraid of my parents' reaction.
00:21:09.860And so I think that's also been really key in some of the other parents I've met is that we be the experts.
00:21:19.780But also, if they ask questions, you give them answers in age-appropriate ways.
00:21:24.780But just to be like, oh, okay, I can go to mom and dad.
00:21:26.720I don't need to, like, because if we clam up, if our own insecurities around the goodness of the body and sex, like, if we freeze up and we react in a, like, a transmitting way of shame, or just don't ask that, it's, well, then they're picking up.
00:21:45.500Well, I can't go to mom or I can't go to dad about this.