The John-Henry Westen Show - Masonic infiltration of the Vatican： the evidence

00:00:00.000 The church today is witnessing something that really is unbelievable. We're having known

00:00:05.420 heretics appointed not only as bishops but as cardinals. We're having the most insane things 1.00

00:00:10.840 we've watched when betrayers of life, family, faith, and culture were promoted previously from

00:00:19.420 priest to bishop, bishop to cardinal, and then finally found out after decades of destruction

00:00:25.560 in the church that they not only were destroying the church in terms of heterodoxy, they were

00:00:29.900 actually sexually abusing as well, and then finally kicked out only after that becomes

00:00:34.600 public. What in the world is going on? We've heard for a long time about Freemasonry in

00:00:39.780 the church, seen the book Infiltration by Dr. Taylor Marshall, but you know, it's always

00:00:45.860 been difficult to pin down. Where is the evidence for that? Well, we've got something today that

00:00:52.780 you're going to find incredible because we've actually got some evidence. There was a cardinal

00:00:59.440 who was tasked by Pope Paul VI to look into these very strange things going on in the

00:01:07.000 church, and he came back with an investigation. His name was Cardinal Gagnon. And interestingly,

00:01:13.360 the pro-life movement in Canada has a great connection to Cardinal Gagnon because he was

00:01:17.360 the one that called on the pro-life movement on behalf of Pope John Paul II at the time to

00:01:23.460 go and fight for life at the UN. So with that background knowledge of Cardinal Gagnon, a great

00:01:30.400 friend to the pro-life movement in Canada, we're going to speak with someone who was a close friend

00:01:36.040 of his for all of his life. His name is Father Charles Murr, who just issued a book called Murder

00:01:43.320 in the 33rd Degree. Stay tuned. This is the John Henry Weston Show.

00:02:05.400 Just before we begin, let me tell you that this is LifeSite's 25th anniversary year. On August 17th,

00:02:11.380 we are having an anniversary event in Naples, Florida. I hope you can join us there. It's going

00:02:17.160 to be awesome. Naples, Florida, go to gala25.lifesitenews.com for more information.

00:02:24.340 Father Charles Murr, great honor to be with you.

00:02:27.740 My honor, sir. My honor and privilege. I mean that sincerely.

00:02:31.960 Father, if you wouldn't mind launching us off with the sign of the cross, that would be awesome.

00:02:35.340 In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

00:02:40.220 Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women. Blessed is the

00:02:44.720 fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God. Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our

00:02:50.560 death. Amen. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.

00:02:55.340 Amen. So, Father, it's so fascinating to speak with you. If you can tell us a little bit about

00:03:02.540 yourself to start with. I'll try to be brief. There's so much to tell.

00:03:09.520 I met, I was in Rome as a lay student. I went to study philosophy, and I was there from 1971

00:03:16.220 till 1979, almost to 1980. And it was there that I met Cardinal Gagnon, again, as a lay student,

00:03:24.480 myself. He was Bishop Gagnon at that time. He had just been named rector of the Pontifical

00:03:30.840 Canadian College in Rome. And I went on to finish my studies and was called to priesthood

00:03:40.080 in a rather extraordinary way. By the book, and you'll find out. It's no, I'm not going

00:03:47.160 to take up your time right now, but it was an extraordinary way that I was called to priesthood.

00:03:51.120 And I was ordained to priest. I was ordained by Cardinal Felice and Cardinal Gagnon. And Cardinal Gagnon

00:03:58.400 preached the homily at my ordination and first mass in multiple languages for everyone attending.

00:04:06.440 And that's it. Gagnon and I remained friends for years, until his death. And I absolutely loved

00:04:19.280 this man. He was one of the genuinely good, good people that God has blessed me to meet in life.

00:04:27.360 You know, in the church, we have everything, right? We have saints and we have sinners. We understand

00:04:33.520 that. This man was one of the saints, truly one of the saints. He was, and a great, delicious

00:04:42.240 sense of humor, a wonderful sense of humor and love to sing and to be with people. And so encouraging,

00:04:53.440 encouraging. I've seen him in a lot of difficult situations and he was always magnificent. I feel

00:04:59.280 great, greatly honored, honored to have had him as my friend. He's still my friend. I still talk to him.

00:05:05.320 Now, Father, you have, oh yeah, you've talked to him posthumously though, as in speaking with him in

00:05:11.960 the afterlife. That's great through prayer, of course. Well, Father, just one other little bit

00:05:18.060 about you, if I may, because people need to understand you're not one of those lofty priests

00:05:23.200 who, I guess in some people's imagination, as in a conservative high hill somewhere, never having

00:05:29.480 messed your hands with the dirty faithful or whatever. You've helped to found orphanages. 0.98

00:05:36.120 You've helped even to rescue priests. Is that not true? A little bit. Yep. Okay. You know,

00:05:43.800 special times require special means. We're in very strange times. If you would have ever told me

00:05:55.080 that at the beginning of my priesthood that I would be in a position to be looking to help other

00:06:00.980 priests who are in dire situations because of their bishops or this, that, and the other thing,

00:06:07.040 I simply would have dismissed that completely. No, I'm like Pius X. One of the great descriptions

00:06:17.120 of Pius X that I love so much is one of his biographers that I read said, he realized that he was

00:06:25.000 a farmer when he was, when he was elected and he realized that he needed somebody very intelligent

00:06:31.540 and shrewd to help him, who was Cardinal Ralph Medelval. He said, because Pius X still had dirt

00:06:38.140 under his fingernails. I like that. Yes, we all need some dirt under our fingernails. And I've got plenty.

00:06:45.780 I've had a lot of life experiences, some incredibly difficult and challenging, others magnificently

00:06:54.200 sublime. Everything. There was everything in life. It's good. So Father, one of the things that

00:07:01.400 has gone on in the church is that a lot of people have talked about, because they're trying to make

00:07:05.720 sense now of what's gone on, what's gone on from really from the sixties, the sort of abrogation

00:07:12.820 almost of the mass that was for over a thousand years, 1,500 years, the mass of the ages, as they call

00:07:19.620 it. But then also it was the appointments of these very strange priests as bishops who became abusers,

00:07:28.940 who deformed the face of the church, who, but it's ongoing. We saw that led up with John Paul II,

00:07:36.340 or at least thought we did. And then we saw with Benedict sort of some reformation of the liturgy

00:07:42.180 back to some language that made more sense. But then came Francis. And now we're dealing with,

00:07:49.520 I think, had I been alive during the sixties, what would have gone on then? The appointment of

00:07:56.080 very strange bishops indeed. But now it's sort of like all out in the open. Back then, perhaps it was

00:08:02.600 somewhat more concealed. But just this week, we had the promotion to Cardinal of Bishop McElroy from San

00:08:12.680 Diego, who I think anybody who has been watching the scene in the United States knows him to be,

00:08:19.200 layman would say, even a heretic, a guy who was promoting LGBT and a staff stance on abortion.

00:08:25.860 So staff, in fact, he was talking about how they have to equate at the USCCB level. We're talking about

00:08:31.580 elections, poverty and abortion. So this guy's out there, way out there on the left. And yet he's

00:08:40.180 made cardinal. He's a suffragan bishop to Cardinal Gomez of LA, who isn't a paragon of conservatism,

00:08:49.600 but he's passed over so that this radical leftist can be appointed. So a lot of people throwing around

00:08:56.900 the idea of, gee, is Freemasonry inside the church. What is Freemasonry? Is it in the church?

00:09:02.440 And what evidence do you have of that?

00:09:06.300 How much time do we have?

00:09:09.180 If you could summarize that, that would be great.

00:09:11.500 I'll tell you this. I'll tell you this. Freemasonry and the plots, the idea of plottings 0.98

00:09:22.820 and a complot, we call it in Spanish and Italian. I couldn't buy any of that when I was a young man.

00:09:32.520 I thought this was nonsense. And I said so. I said so when I was approached many times by serious

00:09:39.980 people on the subject matter of the Freemasons and their horrible disdain, their hatred of the

00:09:49.780 Catholic Church and of Catholic principles. Yes, I know they didn't like Catholic principles and

00:09:55.300 everything else, but they were nice people. We went as children to the Shrine Circus,

00:10:00.280 and the Shriners did a lot of good work with children and everything else.

00:10:04.260 And I'm looking at this through an American perspective.

00:10:10.600 This is not what we're talking about. We're not talking about funny little men with fezzes 0.97

00:10:16.540 running around a little in clown cars. This is not it. This is Freemasonry, as it was founded in

00:10:23.740 Europe in, my goodness, what was it, 1717? And it was founded to attack and destroy Catholicism. 0.78

00:10:37.080 It's one of its principal reasons. And European Freemasonry is not like American Freemasonry.

00:10:45.960 It's just not. It's a different animal. At any rate, in 1974, two cardinals of the Catholic Church,

00:11:01.160 great men, outstanding men, Cardinal Staffa, Dino Staffa, and Cardinal Silvio Oddi.

00:11:12.640 I knew Oddi rather well, a great man. This man was like a locomotive. There was no stopping him,

00:11:23.180 right? These two men, and Cardinal Staffa, I should just say this, Cardinal Staffa was head of the

00:11:29.100 Supreme Court of the Catholic Church. That was the position that Cardinal Burke had until Papa

00:11:35.280 Bergoglio decided that that wasn't pleasing to him. Anyway, this man, as head of the Supreme Court of

00:11:47.120 the Catholic Church, was in a supreme position to understand things. He and Oddi, it was given to him

00:11:54.960 documents against a man in the Roman Curia, a very powerful man in the Roman Curia, who was

00:12:03.200 Hannibal Buñini, or as Monsignor Schuller, my pastor in St. Paul, Minnesota, Richard Schuller,

00:12:13.420 God rest him, used to say Bugnini. You would call him Bugnini. Anyway, Buñini. And then the evidence

00:12:21.540 was quite apparent, evident, that he was a member of the Freemasonry, of Italian Freemasonry.

00:12:33.360 Just to give your listeners a little bit of an idea, it was Freemasonry that brought down the 0.97

00:12:40.140 Papal States. It was Freemasonry that brought about the unification of Italy. It didn't matter 0.94

00:12:47.940 who they killed, what they did to get this done. Freemasonry that had a great role, played a great

00:12:54.320 role in the French Revolution. Freemasonry that played a great role also in the American Revolution.

00:13:00.780 I mean, this is true. There was evidence of this bishop belonging to being a member of the Freemasons.

00:13:14.360 But why is that important? It's, well, first of all, as I say, it's not like belonging to the Lions Club

00:13:20.600 or the Elks, right? This man was in charge of Catholic liturgy.

00:13:30.320 Well, there was a promise by the Freemasons, European Freemasons, above all, French and Italian,

00:13:37.640 to destroy the Catholic Church. How do you destroy the Catholic Church? That's kind of a big undertaking,

00:13:43.640 huh? To destroy the Catholic Church? I remember, I'm reminded of a Jesuit priest who was a dear friend

00:13:53.920 of mine, a spiritual, my spiritual director for years, Father Rahim, Lebanese-Mexican. He and three,

00:14:02.100 two other Jesuits during the Mexican persecution, right after the persecution, were on a train going to

00:14:08.420 Mexico City. And into the car came three or four military men and sat right in front of them. And

00:14:18.040 they realized that these were priests. They were saying grievery. They couldn't wear a Roman collar

00:14:22.860 because Freemasonic law forbade it in Mexico. It was illegal to wear a Roman collar or any habit or

00:14:29.540 any distinction, any distinctive. Anyway, they saw these priests there. And one of the lieutenants

00:14:37.540 said to his men, he said, to egg them on, he said, have we been given just two or three more years?

00:14:44.840 We could have finished all of the Catholic superstition in this country. And of course, 0.98

00:14:50.620 they're egging on these, they're bothering these three priests. Father Rahim finally started laughing,

00:14:59.220 giggling. And of course, these people are humorless. They have no humor. This irritated him very much.

00:15:06.380 He said, you priest, what are you laughing at? He said, he said, he closed his briefings. He said,

00:15:11.340 you would have destroyed the church, the Catholic church in two more years of civil war. He said,

00:15:17.780 you from outside would have done that. He said, we from inside haven't been able to do that in 2000.

00:15:23.120 In 2000 years, you just needed two more to do it. All right. But this, the Freemasons took this on

00:15:30.640 as a pledge to destroy the Catholic Church. They started with having members of the Roman Curia. 0.71

00:15:39.700 They infiltrated the church through the Curia, through the Roman Curia. And they had a member 0.99

00:15:43.860 whose name was Pugnini. This was brought to the attention of the Supreme Magistrate of the Catholic

00:15:51.640 Church's Supreme Court. He had it investigated by Interpol, by many different sources before he dared

00:16:01.000 take this to the Pope. He saw the veracity to it and brought it to Pope Paul VI. He did this in 1975.

00:16:11.060 Pope Paul VI, just a couple of years before this, on his own, came to the conclusion that something was

00:16:21.960 wrong with the church. There was something wrong with the direction that the church was taken.

00:16:29.080 And John Henry, let me just say this. Pope Paul VI, I believe, was a sincere man. I think he was a

00:16:36.460 sincere man. He really felt that the church needed change. And we all believe that the church needed

00:16:43.820 change. God knows the church needs change today. There's nobody who doubts that. So he was open to

00:16:51.200 all of this until he started seeing the direction that it was taking, that he had lost control of it

00:16:58.380 also. He had lost control of that direction. Cardinal Staffa and Cardinal Odi brought the

00:17:06.220 documents to Paul VI himself. And to say that the Pope was concerned, was to put it mildly.

00:17:18.540 He asked Cardinal, he asked his secretary of state, undersecretary of state, Benelli,

00:17:25.820 to do an investigation. Again, another investigation. Benelli did the investigation,

00:17:30.460 found that it was, yes, substantiated.

00:17:36.220 The Pope then, you know how things go in Rome. You're promoted to be eliminated.

00:17:43.420 You're eliminated through promotion, right? Kicked upstairs, as they say. Well, they made

00:17:49.420 Bunini annuncio to Iran. I mean, Iran is like, I mean, I'm not belittling Iran, but Iran's Catholics

00:18:02.620 numbered about 20,000 to 30,000 in the entire country, like a parish, where he could do very

00:18:10.220 little. He couldn't speak the language. He was not a diplomat, so he was just put there.

00:18:16.540 Also, there's another reason for doing this. God knows what all he had on different members of the

00:18:23.820 Curia, Bunini, as far as blackmail and everything else. So you don't want to play hardball with those

00:18:32.140 people, sending them to Iran. Now, this is totally fascinating because who 0.96

00:18:41.420 Bunini was. If you could explain for our listeners, who is Bunini, and why is it so significant that he's

00:18:50.700 ID'd as a Freemason? Bunini was in charge, just basic, I'm going to simplify this, especially for

00:18:58.940 your audience who are probably already tired of listening to my voice. So I'll make it quick.

00:19:05.980 Bunini was in charge of the liturgy, of the liturgical reform. And what he was doing was,

00:19:12.700 when people say that our present Catholic mass seems more like a Protestant service,

00:19:19.660 yes, that was Bunini, and he was very proud of that. He was very proud of that. That would not have

00:19:25.020 been an insult to him whatsoever. That's what he wanted. Bunini did all sorts of things that,

00:19:33.100 anything that he could do to change the liturgy, the Catholic mass, into a Protestant service,

00:19:40.300 into a meal, not a sacrifice. Hated the word sacrifice. Get rid of the word sacrifice.

00:19:46.140 Eliminate the offertory. Get all of that idea of associating the mass with the crucifixion and

00:19:54.540 the sacrifice on Calvary. Get rid of that. It's just a big, fun meal. This is what the mass is. And

00:20:02.220 it's supposed to unite us all, Protestants, Jews. Well, this is what we ended up with. 0.99

00:20:09.020 Let me just put it this way. This was the man who was principally responsible for destroying

00:20:16.620 the liturgical sense of the church as being organic. It stopped being organic. He started imposing

00:20:25.340 ideologies and ideas into the liturgy and the way we pray and the way we believe.

00:20:31.100 And he knew what he was doing. All of those changes were done to secularize, to secularize,

00:20:37.020 to secularize, to make less religious, less religious, to make you less Catholic and me

00:20:43.020 less Catholic and more like everybody else. Well, to great degree, he was successful. 1.00

00:20:49.660 I think he was successful. Unfortunately, I don't think it's wonderful. I think it's horrid,

00:20:55.020 but he was successful. Bonini was ousted by Pope John XXIII. John XXIII knew something around what was wrong

00:21:09.820 about with him because he not only took him out of the commission for the liturgy. This is in 1963,

00:21:17.420 62 yet. John died in 63, so it's in 1960. But he forbade him to step foot into the Lateran University

00:21:26.460 where he was teaching. He called the rector of the Lateran University, the Pope did,

00:21:32.620 to tell him that Bonini was not to step foot in the university. Out.

00:21:37.020 All of a sudden, Paul VI is elected Pope and Bonini's back in. There's a way of presenting yourself in

00:21:47.100 Rome as a martyr of the last regime. They didn't understand me. They were unfair to me. This, that,

00:21:54.780 and the other. Come, come, come back. We'll accommodate you. We had those meetings.

00:21:59.420 Yes, you know. Anyway, he got back in and he started all of this, this, I would call it the

00:22:06.860 destruction of the Catholic liturgy. And I think a lot of people are seeing that today. Ironically,

00:22:12.380 they're seeing it today more clearly than they ever saw it before. 50 years later, it's clearer today

00:22:19.820 than it was 50 years ago. So that's kind of an amazing thing. But I remember historians saying that

00:22:25.580 when I was studying history, they were saying, we know more today about the ancient Egyptians than

00:22:31.100 they knew about themselves. We know more today about this than that, than the people living in

00:22:36.300 those times. We do. And we know more today about what was going on 50 years ago than 50 years ago.

00:22:42.220 Yeah. It's an incredible thing just as a person who didn't live through it to look back and see it and

00:22:49.100 realize, sheesh, I know where I would have been if I was back there. But, but you don't because you're

00:22:56.220 not actually living in it. So, but these are very strange things. But is it only one bishop who,

00:23:05.500 in the Vatican, who was part of the Freemasons, sort of officially, the Italian form of the Freemasons?

00:23:12.540 Or were there more that he worked with on the inside?

00:23:14.620 There were more. There were more. Undoubtedly, there were more. Let me just, let me just say

00:23:23.580 this before we go any further. In 1975, when Pope Paul woke up to this idea that there was something

00:23:34.140 very wrong, something very much wrong with the church was going in the wrong direction. And he did

00:23:40.220 this first step to get rid of Bunini. People who were not around at that time don't understand how

00:23:47.900 crucial this was, the liturgy and what was happening to the liturgy. It was amazing. It was very important.

00:23:58.140 When Pope Paul took care of that problem, and he took care of that problem through Giovanni Benelli,

00:24:03.020 his undersecretary of state, because Benelli was on to all of this more than anybody knew,

00:24:07.980 he knew what was going on. When this happened, the Pope said, there's something very wrong.

00:24:17.180 And Benelli, who I knew, not extremely well, but I knew him. I had dinner with him and was in his

00:24:27.020 company a couple of times, a few times. Benelli suggested an investigation, a thorough investigation

00:24:35.660 of the Roman Curia. And Pope Paul VI said, yes. Who? Who do we have to do an investigation of the

00:24:48.460 Roman Curia? These are the central offices of the church. And believe me, these are the people who

00:24:55.260 investigate. These are not the people who are investigated, right? So this went over like a lead

00:25:01.340 balloon, the announcement. This did not fly at all. People were very upset by it,

00:25:07.740 because it was saying to them that the Pope doesn't have confidence in us, which he didn't,

00:25:12.540 which is the reason he called them for the investigation. And Benelli said, I know one man

00:25:18.700 who is above reproach. He's a canon lawyer, a moralist, a theologian, a humble man,

00:25:26.460 and he's absolutely honest. The Pope said, my God, we have somebody like that?

00:25:36.940 No, he didn't say that. That's me. Anyway, it was Edward Gagnon. And so Gagnon was asked by Benelli

00:25:47.020 to head this investigation. He was called in by the Pope. The Pope bestowed this charge

00:25:51.980 or in charge him with with this study. And he did that. He did that full time for three years,

00:25:59.500 from 1975 until 1978.

00:26:05.340 At great personal cost to him. He had life, he had threats against his life.

00:26:13.660 What were the nature of the room was

00:26:15.180 of people didn't like him investigating them. And people found out. This was a time, this was a time

00:26:24.540 when all good men who were in the Vatican Curia felt, finally, they're able to talk. Finally,

00:26:33.500 they're able to say, to say what, what they've been seeing going on for years, finally. Well, they were,

00:26:39.420 and they did. And their superiors knew this. Their superiors knew this. And the superiors,

00:26:45.660 some of those, some of those men who had caused to be very nervous, were nervous. They were very

00:26:51.420 nervous and very upset, very unhappy with the whole thing. And death threats were made against Gagnon.

00:26:59.740 He was told not to report this, not to report that. His room, his bedroom was ransacked. His office was

00:27:08.620 ransacked, broken into, ransacked. As a matter of fact, in the report, the Gagnon report was stolen

00:27:16.060 from the safe of the congregation from the clergy in the Vatican, stolen from that. The safe was broken

00:27:24.300 into to steal the report. So there was a lot going on. At this point, Gagnon moved into a residence with

00:27:32.620 Monsignor Mario Marini, who was a dear friend of his, and with me. So the three of us were

00:27:38.380 together in a safe spot. And I will not get into why it was safe. You know why it was safe,

00:27:44.540 because of Monsignor Cappucci living down the hall. But believe me, there was not a safer place in the

00:27:50.300 world to be living than with us. We had three bands of military people outside protecting Monsignor Cappucci

00:27:58.940 and watching him and everything else. So it worked out well. Cardinal Gagnon worked for three years

00:28:05.660 on this investigation. There was, there was a, there was a, a, a joke in, in, in Rome. It was common

00:28:12.860 around the Curry. They said that Gagnon knew more than the Holy Ghost. He knew what was going on very,

00:28:19.100 very well. And Gagnon was gradually getting angrier and angrier and angrier. I, I, I saw it. I saw it.

00:28:28.780 The more, the more, the more that came out, the filth. That's the word he used to, the filth.

00:28:36.940 Again, just for your viewers' sake and for yours, don't forget, as I, as I used to tell the,

00:28:45.500 the Carmelite sisters, I gave many retreats to Carmelite nuns. And I said, in every Carmelite

00:28:51.100 convent, there are saints and there are saint makers, right? You got to remember, and, and each

00:29:01.740 of us have a little, has a little bit of each, of each in us, right? Well, in the Vatican also,

00:29:07.500 there were scoundrels. There still are, and very much so. There are also saints. Believe me,

00:29:14.700 there are saints. There are men who are priests and monsignors and bishops who are absolutely dedicated

00:29:20.540 to doing what is right and can't. Their hands are tied. And they're under obedience to continue.

00:29:27.340 And it's very frustrating for a lot of these people, but there are saints. There is good there

00:29:31.580 also, right? There's a tremendous battle between good and evil. Here's what happened too. During the

00:29:38.140 investigation, it was proven, again, proven with documentation. I'm not talking about he said,

00:29:45.180 she said, I said, you said. This was documented, all of this. And, and Archbishop Gagnon would not

00:29:53.100 have accepted anything on basis of rumor. He had no time for that. Everything was documented,

00:30:00.300 and anything that was documented had to be proven again, tested. But it came, it became very clear

00:30:07.820 that the head of the congregation for bishops, who was Cardinal Sebastian Baggio, B-A-G-G-I-O,

00:30:19.420 was also a Freemason. There was no question of it. No question of it. Now, why is that important?

00:30:27.180 Well, first of all, you've got Bunini, who's in charge of the liturgy, who's changing the entire

00:30:34.940 liturgy. By no accident, the liturgy is being changed along Freemasonic lines, philosophical lines.

00:30:47.900 You know, the brotherhood, fraternity, liberty, all of this, this is exactly what Freemasonry is.

00:30:55.580 That's the way our liturgy is going, through Bunini. Our bishops, on the other hand, are being named

00:31:03.980 by an, by a Freemason. Let me, let me, let me just stop for a moment, and let me say that again.

00:31:11.180 Our bishops, from 1972 until 1984, were being named worldwide by a Freemason.

00:31:19.660 That's incredible. And that will actually give us the understanding of why we had

00:31:28.220 bishops like McCarrick, like Mahoney, in the United States, and all over the world. We've had

00:31:35.340 this kind of insanity for a long time. What were those dates again?

00:31:38.700 1972. He was appointed to the Congregation for Bishops in 1972 and resigned, finally, finally.

00:31:47.260 That's another story, in 1984. Cardinal Gagnon. The book is interesting, and it's interesting

00:31:56.780 not because I want to sell books, all right? And it's just interesting because I wanted to get

00:32:02.940 something out, something established before I die, before I go to God, before I see Gagnon again and

00:32:09.900 all of the other saints, right? I want to see Gagnon's face like, yeah, you did well, you did well.

00:32:16.220 These things have to be known. They have to be known. When you have somebody like this creating

00:32:24.060 the world's bishops, are you surprised? Are you surprised that we are where we are? Are you

00:32:32.220 surprised? How can you be surprised? It makes total sense. And also something else happened that shouldn't

00:32:39.020 be discounted. Do you remember that in 19, I believe it was 66, Pope Paul called for the resignation of

00:32:46.540 all bishops over the age of 75. Well, all of a sudden there's this slew, this huge body of remaking

00:32:57.420 bishops. The man in charge was Cardinal Baggio, right? And he made sure that these people were positioned

00:33:06.540 correctly. He also made sure that bishops who would become archbishops in places who would then become

00:33:18.540 Cardinals were of his liking. Very much so, because they would be the next voters in the next conclave.

00:33:27.980 Father, I have to ask you something that's very strange. I know that you're not talking much about

00:33:34.780 Pope Paul VI himself, because in a lot of ways, he seems like a precursor to a Pope Francis.

00:33:47.740 He was responsible for the Second Vatican Council to a large extent anyway. He was responsible for

00:33:55.180 a lot of what went on under him. Yes, it might have been because of these other folks who were doing it,

00:34:00.780 but he still had to give it his stamp of approval. In fact, and he's largely known today, people remember

00:34:09.740 him fancifully for Humanae Vitae, which was great, I mean, in that it upheld the Church's teaching.

00:34:14.940 But Pope Paul VI was the very one who, and this is particularly why you might say he's like Pope Francis,

00:34:25.900 he's like Pope Francis. When the priests rejected Humanae Vitae, and famously in Washington, we had this case

00:34:37.340 where the Cardinal, his name escapes me right now, Boyle. Boyle. Boyle corrected, properly so, his priests for

00:34:47.740 publicly going against the Pope's encyclical on teaching contraception. And then the Pope,

00:34:56.300 I think, personally intervened with Cardinal Boyle to force him to publicly change his stance and

00:35:04.220 basically allow those priests to do, I don't know what, to not be suspended and do whatever they wanted.

00:35:09.500 You're hitting it right on target. You're right on target. And that's why I use that example, that

00:35:15.900 particular one, to pinpoint the beginning of the end. If you want to start, if you want to find out

00:35:23.420 where it really began was exactly at that point. There were six priests, if I'm not mistaken, I may be

00:35:30.540 off on my numbers. I'm getting old. I told you it's one of the reasons I wrote a book, right? Anyway,

00:35:36.220 there were six priests who were protesting Humanae Vitae, if you will, before Humanae Vitae was published.

00:35:45.660 Imagine the audacity, protesting it. The Cardinal of Washington DC suspended the six priests.

00:35:57.020 They could no longer say public mass. They could no longer hear confessions.

00:36:00.380 This is unbelievable, but this is what happened. And this, I think, describes the psychology of

00:36:09.820 Montini, the psychology of Paul VI very well. When the Pope found out about it, he picked up the phone

00:36:18.060 and called the Cardinal of Washington and asked him, as a personal favor to the Holy Father,

00:36:25.900 to reinstate those priests and, if you will, to apologize to them for this misunderstanding.

00:36:35.820 That was it. It was finished. That was it. It was finished. The floodgates were open. That was it.

00:36:41.660 Again, I think Paul VI, I think he really believed that everything could be done

00:36:52.780 with charity and with love and with patience. Well, no, it can't be. Not when you're dealing

00:36:58.700 with people who are bad people. Let me just put it that way. These are not good people.

00:37:05.260 You're not, what was the great line of Al Capone? He said, you can get more done with a nice,

00:37:12.060 with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone. Yep. Anyway, a little bit of

00:37:18.780 discipline, a little bit of force behind what you were saying. And Paul didn't have that.

00:37:23.740 I think he was authentically worried about offending people. Even when you get to the case of Lefebvre,

00:37:29.740 of Bishop Lefebvre, he waited, he almost waited for, there was another priest, I can't remember his

00:37:36.620 name. He's not important to me anyway. It was a Benedictine, the abbot of San Pablo,

00:37:43.260 Fort Elemura, the abbot of St. Paul outside the wall, had made some insane 0.96

00:37:50.700 declarations of something. So he suspended Lefebvre as he suspended the guy on the left,

00:38:02.620 the right and the left. He had to have these two to balance.

00:38:09.660 In a word, and I say it with all respect, and I don't doubt that Paul VI is in heaven. I don't doubt

00:38:17.180 that at all. I do not approve of the way he was made a saint, and the reasons for which he was made

00:38:26.780 a saint, which didn't have a lot to do with sanctity, I don't think. It had to do with the

00:38:31.740 political reasons for the present pontificate. However, if I would define him in just one word,

00:38:41.900 weak, weak, weak, weak when you needed a man who was very strong. He was very weak.

00:38:51.260 After Humanae Vitae, which we applaud because it's correct. It's correct. And one of the reasons

00:38:57.340 we know it's correct is because it's so hated. This is one of the reasons that I know that the

00:39:03.500 direction the pontificate is going today is not correct because it's so loved by the world.

00:39:08.860 The world will applaud you. The world will take you on as one of its own. They will kiss you,

00:39:13.340 love you, hug you, embrace you. That's not the way of Christ Jesus that I know. The world will hate

00:39:21.580 you. I promise it will hate you. It hated me before it hated you. It will hate you, right? Anyway,

00:39:27.820 get back to Montini. There was a tremendous weakness. Humanae Vitae that he wrote was his last encyclical.

00:39:35.340 All done. We're not going to do that again. And this was it. This was it. And it was a terrible

00:39:46.460 time. It was a terrible time for the church. It was a terrible time in church history. And at the

00:39:51.740 same time, you've got all of these new bishops being created all over the world who were liberals,

00:39:58.620 liberals who were liberal. If a conservative got through, believe me, it was by accident.

00:40:04.780 It was by accident. Or it was to show something. But the majority, the vast majority of them were

00:40:11.900 liberals who wanted more and more and more things to change. They were ready to throw the baby out with

00:40:19.100 the bathwater. It didn't matter. They wanted change. This is what happened.

00:40:25.740 This is very interesting. I mean, if we kind of fast forward to now, because we are having something

00:40:32.860 very similar right now. We have a situation where there's liberals, Marxists, whatever they are,

00:40:40.220 being pointed as cardinals, bishops all over the world. Not so much the bishops. We hear a lot about

00:40:45.900 the cardinals. You hear every once in a while about the bishops. But in terms of the cardinals,

00:40:50.540 we see this happening with McElroy, Archbishop Roach being made cardinal as well, who really has a

00:40:59.340 dislike for the Latin Mass, which is rather evident. In the time of Paul VI, you said there was Bajot.

00:41:07.980 Right now, there's Cardinal Houlette, who doesn't strike as one of the extreme leftists. We've already

00:41:12.940 heard though that Pope Francis is sort of skirting, you know, Houlette's suggestions. Do you have any

00:41:20.220 comment on that? Yeah, I know Cardinal Houlette superficially. He was taught by Gagnon. He was also

00:41:32.780 a very dear friend of Monsignor Marini's. I'm sure he's not going to be so happy having me announce that,

00:41:40.060 but he was. He's a good man with principles. There's no question of that. He's also a man who's

00:41:50.540 looking out. He'd like to have his head remain on his neck. So he's very careful what he says,

00:41:58.140 how he says it, but he's doing what can be done. What can be done? Nothing can be done.

00:42:03.260 Under a dictatorship, you get your head up too high above the crowd and watch what happens,

00:42:12.220 so it'll be lapped off. He's very careful. He's cautious, but he's a man of very good principles.

00:42:18.140 He really is a good man of principles. Under a normal pontificate, he would be magnificent.

00:42:23.900 He really would be. Very intelligent man, well-spoken. There are people like this. They're

00:42:29.660 still there. They're still there, which gives me certain hope. Also, what gives me certain hope is

00:42:36.140 this, John Henry, and I share this with you, and I share this with your viewers, and I mean this

00:42:40.620 sincerely. We are at a point in the church's history where I think it's sort of like the Gideon

00:42:51.740 situation. It's so bad that it's going to take divine intervention to get us out of this. I mean

00:43:01.660 that sincerely, divine intervention. Everything has been done, muddied, dirtied, sullied so much that

00:43:11.580 only an act of God is going to take care of it. Not human politics, not human anything, an act of God.

00:43:19.580 And I'm very pleased to be alive. I'm waiting to see that act of God. I'd love to see it.

00:43:24.940 I've got a front row, center seat. I'm waiting. I'm praying for it. You're praying for it. We're

00:43:30.780 all waiting for it. But when it happens, when it happens, it is going to be a colossal manifestation

00:43:37.900 of the will of God and of his love. And this is where we're headed right now. This is not going to

00:43:44.700 continue. This cannot continue. It cannot continue. We cannot have Marxism guiding the direction of the

00:43:51.660 church. It is anti-Catholic. It is anti-God. Look, all of the courses you can take... I've taken some

00:44:00.300 courses at the Gregorian University in Marxism. We had to study it in philosophy.

00:44:05.420 It must be atheistic. It requires atheism. Because there can be nothing, zero, nothing,

00:44:16.700 not even God higher than the state. Why do you need to study it any further than that to know that

00:44:22.060 there's something very wrong here? Now, if you're going to take that and say, I think this is a viable

00:44:27.420 vehicle to remedy the problems of the church and the world and the world's problems, Marxism. Well,

00:44:36.220 no, no, it is not. You know what the real remedy to the world's problems and the church's problems? 0.98

00:44:43.500 Jesus Christ. He's the remedy. Why are we looking elsewhere? Right? Anyway, listen,

00:44:54.700 listen, just one last thing, if I may. Right?

00:45:01.180 Here's a book that I think you've got to read. All right? This is in Italian. It's in Italian,

00:45:05.820 Spanish, and it's in English. This is about Mother Pasqualina. All right? And that book about Mother

00:45:11.180 Pasqualina is called, in English, The Godmother. I'm just going to tell you this. The book is called

00:45:19.020 The Godmother, not because she's a mafiosa. Right? She was my godmother for my ordination, Mother

00:45:25.180 Pasqualina, in Rome. All right? She was my godmother, and she came to my ordination. She gifted me with

00:45:32.060 the Sistine Chapel Choir as an ordination gift for the first mass. A fantastic woman, and I loved her

00:45:39.900 greatly. Anyway, Mother Pasqualina, I went to go visit her one day, and this book is all stories of Mother

00:45:47.340 Pasqualina and the visits that we had, and her interpretation of different things. Very

00:45:52.060 interesting lady. She was 42 years Pius XII's personal secretary, and lived through a part of

00:45:58.780 history that was phenomenal. But she said, one time I went to go visit her, and she said,

00:46:03.260 she said, Don Carlo. She said, you know, I just had a visit from an Austrian couple, very dear people.

00:46:10.300 I've known them for years. And she said, they came in with this, and she pulled out from her habit sleeve

00:46:19.900 a pamphlet or a pamphlet or a flyer or something. And it was Pope Paul, according to this, had been

00:46:29.740 kidnapped and replaced by an imposter. The pope that was there was an imposter. They had a before and after

00:46:38.380 a picture, and it was ludicrous. And I looked at her, and I said, Mother Pasqualina, you don't believe

00:46:44.460 this. I mean, you don't believe something is... She said, absolutely not. Absolutely not. Of course,

00:46:50.860 she said, it's nonsense. And I said, well, what are you showing it to me for? What are you so surprised?

00:46:56.460 She said, I just want you to see how everyone is grasping for something to believe, to explain the

00:47:07.740 insanity of what's happening. They'll even go to the extreme that the pope was kidnapped and an

00:47:15.980 imposter put in his place. That makes more sense to these people than that the church can be in the

00:47:22.460 state that it's in, right? So all I'm saying to people, to your audience, which is a great audience,

00:47:30.540 you've got an outstanding Catholic audience, they are the hope of the future. You know that.

00:47:37.180 The future of the church and of the world. Yes, these are insane times. Don't look for the explanation

00:47:47.180 over here, over there. Remember when Christ said, and then on the final times they'll say,

00:47:52.220 look, he's over here, the Messiah. Look, he's over there. Look here. Don't look anywhere,

00:47:56.540 right? Don't be fooled. There is evil within the church. It's at the heart of the church. It's there.

00:48:05.420 It's looking to do more harm, more harm. Again, I'll end with this. Monsignor Marini,

00:48:14.620 who was to me like the fourth person of the Blessed Trinity. I love this man. He started

00:48:21.980 the first one named to Ecclesia Dei Commission, and he was in the Secretary of State, and he was

00:48:27.260 Benelli's right-hand man. Monsignor Marini and I were walking down the Lungo Tevere, you know,

00:48:33.420 the Lungo Tevere in Rome, and we walked past a group of trans, they were called at that time,

00:48:39.660 transvestites. I think that's already politically incorrect, transvestites, but that's what they were 1.00

00:48:45.740 called. A group, maybe four or five of them, men dressed in drag, and they saw when Monsignor Marini,

00:48:53.100 who was a priest, Monsignor, in a Roman collar passed by, they started making catcalls and insults.

00:48:59.420 And I turned to him, this is a man who I just, I absolutely admired, just tremendous,

00:49:05.900 6'3", this virile man from Ravenna. I said, I said, how can such a thing take place?

00:49:15.100 You ridiculing, screaming at a priest in the shadow of St. Peter's Basilica,

00:49:20.380 right across, this is incredible. And he started laughing. He said, that bothers you? That bothers

00:49:29.100 you? I said, well, yes, indeed. He said, he said, you take a good look at those four or five men.

00:49:36.380 Take a look at them. He turned around. He said, I'm telling you right now, those five men,

00:49:42.220 transvestites, who are lined up to be prostitutes, to be picked up by cars coming by, 0.99

00:49:49.180 have a better chance of heaven than many of the people I work with under that dome. 1.00

00:49:59.260 So there is evil. There is evil. And I said, but why would that be? And he said,

00:50:04.380 he said, you're a student of logic. He said, what do you, what do you mean? Why would it be?

00:50:09.340 Where the presence of God is most apparent, why wouldn't the devil be right next door,

00:50:15.260 pitching a tent? Where you build a cathedral, where a cathedral is being built, the devil pitches

00:50:20.620 his tent right across the street. And where the bicker of Christ on earth reigns, you can be sure

00:50:27.260 the devil is not far away, not far away at all. The difference is that popes that we've had in the 0.93

00:50:33.500 past knew this. And they let their eyes open to this. Recently, they don't know this.

00:50:44.460 Cardinal Gagnon, to end this, presented his investigation, the results of it, to three

00:50:49.740 different popes. I was with him, brought him there, took him back. When they refused to act,

00:50:57.820 when John Paul II refused to act, Gagnon resigned on the spot. I took him to the airport. He left Rome

00:51:06.460 forever. But before he left Rome, he said to John Paul II, he said, Holy Father, the Vatican Bank,

00:51:13.740 the Vatican Bank is about to be assaulted. A horrible scandal is brewing for the Vatican Bank

00:51:23.020 to undermine the finances of the entire Roman church. He paid no attention to it. He did not pay

00:51:34.780 attention to it. Now, for your viewers who doubt that there are Masonic plots going on,

00:51:41.660 all they have to do is look at the Vatican Bank scandal, which was an assault by P2, 1.00

00:51:54.940 pre-Masonic lodge against the Catholic church to destroy its finances completely and tumble it, 0.65

00:52:01.420 crash it. They were judged guilty in Italian courts, international courts, and I think two of

00:52:10.540 them are still in prison for free Masonic plot against the church. One was hung, hung himself,

00:52:19.180 or was hung under the Blackfriars Bridge in London. And this is incredible. Just look at that. That's

00:52:28.220 not my interpretation of a plot. That was a plot, and it was legally presented as one, and people are

00:52:33.900 still in jail suffering the consequences of paying the penalties for it. No, there is real evil. And to

00:52:40.860 think that there isn't real evil, if you don't see that there's real evil, you really shouldn't be a

00:52:45.420 Christian. There's something wrong with you. Sometimes in my poor upbringing and formation, 0.99

00:52:53.820 every once in a while, I found myself in different circumstances in life almost doubting the existence

00:53:02.300 of God. I say that honestly. Things were so bad and so hard, and they hit so hard, and betrayals and

00:53:10.860 terrible things. But I never doubted the existence of evil. Evil is apparent. You have to look for God.

00:53:21.420 You have to look a little bit for God. He's not cheap. God isn't a cheap love. He costs something.

00:53:27.580 You want to find him? It'll cost you something. When you find him, it's magnificent. It's magnificent.

00:53:33.660 But evil, if you can't see evil, there's something very wrong with your vision. And this is what we're

00:53:41.020 suffering from in the church today. This happened 50 years ago. The reason I'm bringing it up today is

00:53:47.900 because today we're suffering the real consequences of that. We also had John Paul II, a saint of a man,

00:53:55.260 there's no question about it, good man, well-intentioned, did not take care of business,

00:54:01.020 did not take care of home, didn't clean house. He had the opportunity to do so. He decided 104 trips

00:54:08.460 around the world to bring Christ to the masses was more important. Was it? I don't know. I don't know.

00:54:14.140 I don't know. Maybe it accomplished a lot that I can see. I'm sure it did. I hope it did. But he did

00:54:21.260 not take care of what he was called to take care of, and that was to take care of business.

00:54:25.820 Every time he took a new trip, there was applause in the Roman Curia. Yes, yes, he's out again. Go.

00:54:33.980 Nobody's been in charge for the longest time, for the longest time. And we're living the consequences

00:54:43.020 of it. And I think one last thing, I keep saying one last thing. I think I've said it now five times,

00:54:48.300 right? I'm sorry. But you know, you get me wound up, John Henry. Anyway, here's the thing. One last thing.

00:54:56.380 No, I'll leave it at that. I'll leave it at that. Let me be prudent and just not say that. I think

00:55:06.060 I think something spectacular is going to happen. God has not abandoned his church. He's not abandoned

00:55:13.740 his people. I will say it. I think I think that the reason that people that I find pleasure, not not

00:55:24.700 pleasure, haha, sardonically. Not that. But I find I find hope in the fact that these people are bothered

00:55:35.660 tremendously by the resurgency of the ancient mass. I find great hope in that. The more they're upset

00:55:47.180 about it, and screaming against it, and railing against it, and prohibiting, and screaming, and no,

00:55:55.500 my God, there is something to this. There is something to this. If they're bothered that much,

00:56:00.700 if they're bothered that much, it's like the Monsignor passing in front of the transvestites. 0.88

00:56:08.780 They couldn't remain quiet. They had to mock. They had to mock, right? The same thing I see happening

00:56:15.980 here. This is a good sign. This is a good sign that all of these people who are not necessarily great

00:56:22.540 and good people are upset by this. If a man is known by his friends, John Henry,

00:56:29.260 if you can know a man by his friends, doesn't it stand to reason that you can know him by his enemies?

00:56:37.180 Amazing, Father. Father, I want to thank you so much for being with us on the John Henry Wesson Show.

00:56:42.940 I really want you to come back because there's actually tons more to cover. I have way more

00:56:48.460 questions for you. First of all, are you going to come back on?

00:56:50.860 Oh, I'd love to. I'd love to. Excellent. Your tolerance level is remarkable.

00:56:58.060 Well, you know what? I know my audience is going to be totally fascinated. Murder in the 33rd Degree.

00:57:03.820 Folks, go out and get that book. It is eye opening. And that is exactly the education that we need

00:57:10.460 to know where we came from in the last little while in the church, why we're here. And I really do want to

00:57:17.900 get from you, Father, perhaps in the next show. But how do you think this is actually going to come

00:57:22.940 to a conclusion? Because it's unbelievable right now. But again, thank you. And you know what?

00:57:29.900 Can you close, Father, with giving us all a blessing?

00:57:31.820 Amen. God bless you. Thank you, John Henry. God bless your father. And God bless all of you.

00:57:53.820 Thank you. We'll see you next time.

The John-Henry Westen Show - June 07, 2022

Masonic infiltration of the Vatican： the evidence

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript