The John-Henry Westen Show - April 11, 2023


'Mass Of The Ages' Controversy Revisited - Total Latin Mass Ban Incoming？


Episode Stats

Length

39 minutes

Words per Minute

160.47481

Word Count

6,390

Sentence Count

449

Misogynist Sentences

2

Hate Speech Sentences

14


Summary

Mass of the Ages Director, Cameron O'Hearn, joins us to discuss her new film on the Latin Mass and the controversy surrounding it. Episode 3 is out now, and we discuss why we think it will be a catalyst for the movement to protect Latin Mass.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 We think that this film, Episode 3, is actually going to be a catalyst for the Latin Mass movement going forward.
00:00:09.000 We think it could be likely that bishops see this, Episode 3, and who were negative or they didn't quite understand Latin Mass,
00:00:17.320 because every time they see someone online, he's angry and complaining.
00:00:20.900 Once they see Episode 3, we think their hearts will be moved to protect Latin Mass and their dioceses.
00:00:27.300 There is huge controversy in all the Church over the traditional Latin Mass.
00:00:33.840 There's been a move to seemingly shut it down, although it's said, oh, it's just being moved to certain parishes and whatnot, or certain places.
00:00:40.800 There aren't parishes. It looks like it might even end by May 2023. There's hints of that.
00:00:46.820 It's unbelievable what's going on. The Cardinals in Rome just addressed the issue.
00:00:50.960 Cardinal Roche, in comments to LifeSite News as well, they're talking about wanting to listen.
00:00:56.460 But a lot of faithful Catholics, particularly young people, are very frustrated with this new process,
00:01:03.000 and they're wondering why they're not being heard.
00:01:05.640 There's all sorts of pilgrimages going on, prayer petitions going on, everything happening.
00:01:10.800 It couldn't be a more opportune time to be in the middle of releasing a film on the traditional Latin Mass called Mass of the Ages.
00:01:19.620 Yet, this providential thing is happening. You've probably already seen it.
00:01:24.460 We have the head of that project here, Cameron O'Hearn. Stay tuned.
00:01:27.600 Cameron, thanks for joining us.
00:01:47.820 Thanks for having me. You're a professional. You're good at your job.
00:01:50.400 Let's begin, as you always do, with the sign of the cross.
00:01:55.040 In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.
00:02:00.480 It's incredible timing for you.
00:02:02.780 I can imagine a lot of Hollywood producers would hope to have started some project,
00:02:09.580 and then in the middle of it, have something go on on a worldwide scale that fit right into their project.
00:02:15.640 That's happened to you.
00:02:17.500 What have you got to say about that?
00:02:18.960 Well, Scripture says that a man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps.
00:02:24.280 And that's been this project from day one.
00:02:26.560 So, obviously, we weren't planning on releasing Traditiones Custodis, because that's not our project.
00:02:33.620 But Traditiones Custodis came out restricting the Latin Mass.
00:02:37.280 And at that point, we were just a month away, almost exactly to the day of releasing episode one.
00:02:44.100 And so, it was already in the hopper, ready to go.
00:02:46.640 We released episode one, and it snowballed into episode two, which dealt with the changes to the Mass after Vatican II.
00:02:54.260 It can only be seen as providential, because this isn't a master plan I have.
00:03:01.200 This is the Lord's work.
00:03:03.060 And the more I stay out of the way, the more good he seems to do.
00:03:07.100 And the other thing I want to say is, I think we have a great opportunity in front of us.
00:03:11.840 So, yes, it's providential.
00:03:13.200 Yes, great film at just the opportune time.
00:03:16.660 But think of why Pope Francis wrote Traditiones Custodis.
00:03:21.840 It's because he has a perception in mind of who the Latin Mass Catholics are and why they attend Latin Mass.
00:03:28.760 He doesn't understand it.
00:03:30.660 He's spoken publicly that he thinks they have a mental problem, maybe.
00:03:35.360 He doesn't quite understand why traditional Catholics attend Latin Mass.
00:03:39.120 He was ordained right before the new Mass came out.
00:03:43.060 And so, his experience of the Latin Mass is always secondhand.
00:03:46.820 And unfortunately, his perception is influenced by the loudest people in the room.
00:03:53.220 And sometimes the loudest ones in the room are also the most angry, the most embittered.
00:03:58.720 Yes, sometimes that's understandable.
00:04:01.260 But we have an opportunity in front of us to reframe the Latin Mass movement and to show Pope Francis who we really are.
00:04:10.080 So, I'm thrilled that, yes, episode one was opportune, episode two kind of upset the apple cart and did a lot of good.
00:04:19.120 But episode three, I think, is really our flagship film that's going to put a new face on the Latin Mass movement.
00:04:25.200 Explain that for us.
00:04:26.480 What was the perception before?
00:04:28.760 What is it now?
00:04:30.360 Who are the people who attend the traditional Latin Mass from what you've seen?
00:04:34.640 The Latin Mass movement is characterized by resistance.
00:04:37.720 Since the 1980s, when you had individuals, especially SSPX, resisting in order to protect something that they knew needed to be protected, the Latin Mass and tradition, traditional Catholicism.
00:04:53.300 So, it's characterized by this reaction, this resistance.
00:04:57.880 And in the digital landscape online, the loudest voices, you know, get seen and heard the most.
00:05:06.220 And that's the few.
00:05:08.660 That's what you can say is, you know, the tip of the iceberg, for lack of a better metaphor.
00:05:14.160 But I would say that the real face of the Latin Mass movement, I've traveled all around the country.
00:05:19.260 We've traveled to Europe, Africa.
00:05:22.500 We've traveled to Rome.
00:05:24.100 We're following all these stories all across the world.
00:05:26.420 And the majority, the faithful majority of Latin Mass Catholics are not inherently angry.
00:05:36.000 They're not complaining.
00:05:37.940 They don't hate the Pope.
00:05:40.400 They don't even reject Vatican II.
00:05:42.920 They don't really talk about Vatican II that much.
00:05:45.360 They just love the Latin Mass.
00:05:47.560 And they love what it does for their families.
00:05:50.280 So, the real face of the Latin Mass movement is happy, is happy that they found this treasure that they can now pass on to their families.
00:06:02.140 It's an amazing thing.
00:06:03.000 However, with Traditiones Castoras has also come out more of the kind of, we want to defend it.
00:06:11.940 It's sort of resurged that movement to defend it because a lot of people, especially young people who have just discovered it, see a threat to it right now as well.
00:06:21.280 But they must also see the hand of God going on, not only in Mass of the Ages.
00:06:27.820 And I wanted to surprise you with this question.
00:06:29.620 I didn't plan to surprise you with it.
00:06:31.140 But since you raised it this way, Shia LaBeouf.
00:06:34.660 So, this is super interesting.
00:06:37.320 It just happened in the past weekend.
00:06:40.420 You know, the interview with Bishop Barron comes up.
00:06:44.640 All sorts of controversy.
00:06:45.640 The first thing that hit the news, of course, was this commentary over the Latin Mass.
00:06:50.900 Something like, you know, he explains it.
00:06:53.200 And why do you like it?
00:06:54.380 Well, because they're not trying to sell me a car.
00:06:58.700 Can you give, I think a lot of people were, who saw it, because nearly a million views on that video.
00:07:05.340 And I think a lot of people, particularly those who perhaps haven't gone to the Latin Mass, they have no idea what Shia is talking about.
00:07:12.540 We want them to go and see it.
00:07:13.500 But give us an insight.
00:07:14.760 What does he mean by, they're not trying to sell me a car?
00:07:19.900 Almost from the office, activate the audience without putting the agency on the priest.
00:07:25.720 We have full, conscious, active participation.
00:07:28.540 Which is where the singing and the back and forth comes from.
00:07:31.000 Whereas Old Latin Mass put all the agency on the priest to be fully activated.
00:07:36.260 And that activation of the priest was supposed to activate the audience, activate the laity.
00:07:43.500 That all the agency was put on the priest.
00:07:46.260 And so, and I don't want to get too far into this, because then you get into controversy.
00:07:49.880 But Latin Mass affects me deeply.
00:07:53.080 Deeply.
00:07:53.740 How come?
00:07:54.260 Because it feels like they're not selling me a car.
00:07:56.820 And when I go to some Mass with the guitars and stuff, and I'm from, you know, Santa Inez, right?
00:08:02.620 So, that's where I was catechized.
00:08:04.500 And there's a lot of guitar playing.
00:08:05.860 And there's a lot of, like, what feels like, like they're trying to sell me on an idea.
00:08:11.080 Whereas what I feel when I went to Oakland and went to, like, and by the way, there's a very incredible version of that as well.
00:08:18.720 That's super activating and very emotional.
00:08:20.560 That I've experienced up there with Father Bobby.
00:08:22.920 There's also, and Father Peter.
00:08:24.920 But there's also this, something that happened, you know, Christ the King in Oakland does a Latin Mass every day of the week.
00:08:31.320 And it feels like it's not being done to sell me on anything.
00:08:37.100 And it feels almost like I'm being let in on something very special.
00:08:41.340 And the quiet, it activates something in me where it feels like I found something.
00:08:51.740 I think that's, unfortunately, a really accurate description of what a lot of Catholics experience of the new Mass is Sunday after Sunday.
00:09:03.140 I mean, I grew up with the new Mass and also a faithful Catholic family.
00:09:07.780 I never really rejected my faith, so I had a good upbringing.
00:09:12.600 But to be honest, I started to put my finger on what I saw as a problem.
00:09:19.060 I didn't quite understand what the problem was.
00:09:21.100 But when I would go to Mass, it seemed like the priest was pretending to do liturgy or put more, you know, accurately, pretending to be at Calvary.
00:09:34.240 And it just, especially for a man, feels, it's not really saying anything important.
00:09:41.160 It's not really challenging me.
00:09:42.880 It's not presenting anything that I want to fight for.
00:09:46.900 And when I want to take people into the church and, you know, family members who are, you know, one foot in, one foot out, I definitely want to take the Mass.
00:09:56.720 Let's go to confession.
00:09:57.520 Let's go to Mass.
00:09:58.360 But at the new Mass, it was always cringing.
00:10:00.660 I was always cringing because it did feel like the priest was trying to sell us something instead of just showing us the truth.
00:10:08.960 And when I would go to Latin Mass, it didn't feel like we were pretending to be at Calvary.
00:10:13.980 It felt like we were there.
00:10:15.880 Our knees were in the dust and something mysterious and beautiful was happening.
00:10:21.660 And I could just silently be there worshiping God.
00:10:24.980 And you're right, a lot of people haven't experienced this.
00:10:29.700 And so that comparison might sound mean.
00:10:32.440 But when you understand that the new Mass was built in order for Catholics to understand what's going on, the basis of it was that the faithful can actively participate in the liturgy.
00:10:45.720 That's the sole focus of the changes to the liturgy is so the faithful can participate.
00:10:51.860 But unfortunately, this got implemented in such a way that it's about understanding everything going on.
00:10:58.620 Well, who is supposed to understand what's going on?
00:11:02.680 My four-year-old, you know, a theologian understands different things going on.
00:11:07.840 If it's about everyone understanding everything that's going on, well, that's just banal.
00:11:12.920 That's boring.
00:11:13.820 That doesn't give me anything interesting or anything worth fighting for.
00:11:18.320 Whereas the Latin Mass is all about stirring up your devotion.
00:11:22.480 And a four-year-old, a theologian, whoever you are, you know that a song is beautiful.
00:11:28.940 You know that something important is happening.
00:11:31.180 You just got to see it and you got to feel it and you got to hear it.
00:11:34.420 And that's what we lost with the changes to the new Mass.
00:11:37.280 The difference between devotion and understanding everything that's going on.
00:11:41.720 Some of the basic changes to the Mass, and we're going to get into why and how in a minute.
00:11:46.960 But some of the basic changes, most of the time, from the traditional Latin Mass, if you go there, you'll notice the priest comes out.
00:11:56.760 Now, sometimes with an altar boy, and it's slightly different.
00:12:01.140 But he still comes out, except the priest doesn't face here.
00:12:05.700 So the priest is facing the east, or the tabernacle for the most part, or whatever.
00:12:13.660 And the people are sort of facing east with him.
00:12:15.600 But you said trying to pretend to be at Calvary.
00:12:21.020 Because I think one piece of understanding that needs to be conveyed first and foremost is that what is the Mass?
00:12:26.420 The Mass is participation in the sacrifice of the cross, in the sacrifice of Calvary.
00:12:32.820 We're sort of mystically present at the crucifixion.
00:12:37.200 One of the best descriptions I've ever heard from my spiritual director about what to do at the Mass is the same thing you do at Calvary.
00:12:45.000 You're there in front of our Lord being crucified for you, being offered up to the Eternal Father.
00:12:51.300 And what do you then do?
00:12:52.960 If you were there, if you were actually somehow transported in a time machine back there, you wouldn't understand a word.
00:12:59.480 They're speaking Latin, the soldiers are.
00:13:02.220 You're hearing Aramaic from some of the followers.
00:13:05.720 You're probably hearing some Hebrew.
00:13:07.740 Who knows what else?
00:13:08.700 Greek for sure.
00:13:09.460 You'd be very confused, too.
00:13:12.000 Like, what is happening?
00:13:13.460 The leader of our movement is being crucified.
00:13:15.420 I have no idea what's going on.
00:13:17.600 So you're just there and kind of bewildered.
00:13:21.340 And you know something superbly mysterious is going on.
00:13:25.900 Our ladies, they're under the cross watching this.
00:13:28.920 St. John is there.
00:13:30.540 And the Magdalene is there.
00:13:33.320 And that's basically it.
00:13:34.140 Everyone else has run away.
00:13:35.100 You know, you've got probably some in the crowd looking on, not wanting to be known as supporters.
00:13:41.640 It's unreal.
00:13:42.860 It's interesting because in Latin Mass, the priest is now facing away, sort of away from the people, but toward Christ with the people.
00:13:51.860 So we're all with him looking at Jesus crucified.
00:13:54.340 And then he is himself in persona Christi.
00:13:57.100 Give us a little bit of that before we move on to the next part.
00:14:01.260 That's one of the key features of the Latin Mass, probably the thing that sticks out most to people when they go is the priest is not looking at you.
00:14:08.260 He's facing the altar.
00:14:10.440 The other thing they notice is a lot of it is in silence.
00:14:14.140 There's this music that's in a different language or even prayers, different language.
00:14:19.240 The interesting thing is these are things that Vatican II itself didn't even want to throw out entirely.
00:14:26.160 They wanted slight modifications, too.
00:14:27.900 I think seeing the priest, you know, facing the altar, you know, it's interesting.
00:14:33.000 Bishop Schneider, when we interviewed him, this is in our hours of footage speaking with him.
00:14:39.760 He said that if all over the world, you could just have the priest at every Mass, including the new Masses, facing East, facing the Ad Orientum, facing the altar, that would solve most of the liturgical problems.
00:14:57.280 And Cardinal Ratzinger, Pope Benedict XVI, echoed that.
00:15:00.860 That just, it's not about me.
00:15:04.280 It's not about trying to get me to, don't, stop talking to me.
00:15:07.920 I'm trying to pray.
00:15:10.340 Together, let's worship God.
00:15:14.180 Let's be directed towards him.
00:15:16.000 The unfortunate thing with turning the priest around and having everything out loud in your spoken language is that it becomes very flat and linear.
00:15:24.540 We're all kind of plodding along, saying the same prayers together.
00:15:28.740 I might be at a completely different place.
00:15:30.560 My four-year-old is definitely at a different place.
00:15:33.520 We're thinking about different things.
00:15:35.200 We're trying to enter into prayer.
00:15:37.060 Meditation is a dynamic experience.
00:15:40.300 So the great thing about priests facing East and a lot of silence and a language you don't understand is that we can just worship God no matter where we're coming from.
00:15:52.280 Here's a transition point.
00:15:53.480 One of the things you also said was they're not against Vatican II.
00:15:56.740 In fact, the changes of the Mass, it could rightfully be said, don't actually have to do with the new Mass we have now.
00:16:04.820 What's the development of the new Mass?
00:16:06.540 How do we get there?
00:16:07.780 Who's the person behind it?
00:16:09.140 And what was behind his thoughts?
00:16:10.740 This is detailed in Episode 2 of Mass of the Ages.
00:16:14.500 And the key thing that we wanted to communicate in that episode was we don't even need to talk about Vatican II.
00:16:21.540 The traditional Catholic response to the new Mass and what happened after Vatican II shares the same premise.
00:16:30.280 Different people add different premises, but the main thing we're saying is something went wrong.
00:16:35.860 Something went wrong.
00:16:36.780 You can easily see this just by comparing the new Mass with the documents of Vatican II.
00:16:42.980 And not just the new Mass practiced by some crazy liturgical experimentation, but just the actual missile.
00:16:50.800 So, for example, in the documents that came shortly after Vatican II, the important thing to know is there was a committee, a concilium, whose job it was to implement Sacrosanctum Concilium.
00:17:03.700 So, the document of the liturgy at Vatican II, their job was to implement that document.
00:17:09.520 So, they released letters, you know, slowly implementing changes over the course of five or so years.
00:17:17.560 And Vatican II said, let there be no innovations unless the good of the Church genuinely and certainly requires them.
00:17:24.140 And any changes need to grow out of things already existing.
00:17:28.500 So, you'd have to be able to look around the world and say, this is a good development.
00:17:33.120 Let's adopt this.
00:17:34.040 But very minor things.
00:17:35.700 Only if it's proven, it's going to be good.
00:17:37.840 But then you had the concilium, just whole hog, throwing out prayers, excising so many of the orations, the prayers in the Mass, saying let's, it is preferential that the altar be built apart from the wall, including adapting current churches.
00:17:56.080 So, people ripping out altars was something that was commanded from the top down.
00:18:01.840 Instead of Latin being a small part or the spoken language being a small part of the liturgy, Pope Paul VI said no longer Latin, but the spoken language will be the principal language of the Mass.
00:18:16.100 So, what is a faithful Catholic to do?
00:18:19.080 We have Vatican II that says X, and we have the implementation of Vatican II, which did the opposite.
00:18:25.980 The traditional Catholic response is primarily something went wrong.
00:18:29.820 And this happened from the concilium led by Pope Paul VI.
00:18:34.000 That's where the problem lies.
00:18:35.820 So, the way forward is to look with honest eyes at what went wrong and pray for your Church.
00:18:42.840 Don't leave the Church.
00:18:43.840 And in the meantime, I say go to Latin Mass, because there you find, this is the funny thing.
00:18:50.240 I think the Latin Mass is more like Sacra Sanctum Concilium than the New Mass, because Latin is to be retained.
00:19:00.000 Gregorian chant has pride of place.
00:19:02.060 You know, it describes liturgy as this solemn, beautiful sacrifice of the Blessed Trinity.
00:19:07.460 You have to suspend your disbelief at the New Mass to believe you're doing anything, you know, really important.
00:19:14.600 So, yeah, I think, funny enough, the Latin Mass is more like what Vatican II said than even the New Mass.
00:19:23.880 Your journey that's in the midst of this, you're a young man.
00:19:27.460 So, many people would think, oh, the Latin Mass is all about old people stuck to their old tradition.
00:19:34.260 They can't leave it.
00:19:35.300 And here, there's actually an overabundance of young people.
00:19:40.640 I'd like you just to tell us of your experiences going throughout the world, looking at Latin Masses.
00:19:46.120 Who is the audience?
00:19:47.380 The audience at Latin Mass is primarily young families.
00:19:51.260 Parishes that we visit, especially since COVID, have just been brimming with young people.
00:19:56.020 There's so many baptisms.
00:19:58.320 You just can't keep up with it.
00:19:59.640 The priests are, their schedules are packed with confessions and baptisms.
00:20:05.300 An interesting metric is to just look at baptisms versus funerals.
00:20:10.720 And you find that a lot of just generic parishes, they'll have a lot of funerals and few baptisms.
00:20:16.960 But it's the opposite at Latin Mass parishes.
00:20:19.640 A lot of young people are discovering the Latin Mass as something new and exciting,
00:20:25.420 not because it tries to speak their language or get on their level or be hip or whatever.
00:20:31.460 We hate it when dad tries to be hip, you know?
00:20:34.360 Just show us something beautiful and we'll flock to it.
00:20:39.040 And that's what young people are saying all over the world is we just love this thing.
00:20:42.760 We're not even into the politics, what's going on with the church.
00:20:45.140 We don't even understand what's going on in the church half the time.
00:20:48.500 But we know that this Mass is the Mass we want for our families.
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00:21:17.540 And now, back to the video.
00:21:18.960 Who are the Latin Mass priests?
00:21:23.160 Are they these old guys?
00:21:24.900 Are they the young fellas?
00:21:26.380 And what's usually their disposition?
00:21:29.040 I haven't looked too much into the priests of the Latin Mass.
00:21:33.800 I can just say from personal experience that they're just, again, they're not the people
00:21:39.440 with the microphones and the cameras making a big fuss.
00:21:42.860 They're just praying a Mass.
00:21:45.380 And that's the big thing.
00:21:46.280 They go to Mass, and they celebrate the Latin Mass, and they're praying the Mass.
00:21:51.560 And the holier your priest is, the more devoted he is, the more meditative he is, the more
00:21:57.400 the faithful will be, too.
00:21:58.660 That trickles down.
00:21:59.580 It's like a father and his family.
00:22:01.180 So the kinds of priests you find at the Latin Mass are just concerned with giving God proper
00:22:06.500 worship.
00:22:07.100 And they're not concerned with having you tag along.
00:22:09.740 They don't care that you're tagging along.
00:22:13.480 They can't see you.
00:22:14.420 But yeah, I would say that the majority of Latin Mass priests are just in love with tradition.
00:22:21.780 And that affects us, too.
00:22:24.280 Because we want to be led by someone who is fighting for something, not someone who's trying
00:22:29.720 to make something interesting for us.
00:22:32.080 In the third episode of Mass of the Ages, you guys are pointing out the differences, I presume,
00:22:39.040 between the one Mass and the other.
00:22:41.300 You have this one brilliant thing I just caught on Twitter where you're showing the old Mass
00:22:46.440 and the prayers that were just excised from it in a really neat way of showing that.
00:22:52.580 What else are you showing in Episode 3?
00:22:55.020 And is this the end for you?
00:22:56.920 Actually, Episode 2 is all about the changes.
00:23:00.460 It'll blow your mind that the amount of things changed, how many things were changed, and how
00:23:06.100 much of those things are changed.
00:23:07.980 I think after watching Episode 2, you'll feel in your heart that something went wrong.
00:23:13.340 Now, Episode 3 is about, well, what do we do now?
00:23:16.980 So, we're going to explain to people, after the new Mass came out, how did the Latin Mass come
00:23:23.740 back into the fore?
00:23:26.360 How did it emerge through the likes of, you know, Marcel Lefebvre with the SSPX, the Fraternity,
00:23:34.140 the Institute, the Resistance, even at the very beginning, you had Indolts before Lefebvre.
00:23:40.580 And so, we're giving a bit of history.
00:23:42.700 Also, there's an interesting investigation into Traditiones Custodas itself, because there was
00:23:49.000 a survey sent out to the world's bishops that basically said, is Latin Mass good or bad?
00:23:55.500 And they filled out a survey and sent it in.
00:23:58.420 What's interesting is there's more to the story, because one little tip is, if you look
00:24:03.620 actually around the world at what bishops are doing, because actions speak louder than words,
00:24:08.580 we want to know what a bishop thinks about the Latin Mass.
00:24:11.240 What are they doing after Traditiones Custodas?
00:24:14.740 And the interesting thing is, 70% of them that have made public statements have no restrictions
00:24:21.800 at all.
00:24:22.480 So, they're just positive towards the Latin Mass.
00:24:25.640 So, it's interesting that Pope Francis felt the need to intervene.
00:24:29.840 He felt compelled to intervene, because the Latin Mass was such a big problem.
00:24:35.320 So, we're going to unpack that for everyone.
00:24:37.360 There's a lot of surprises in there.
00:24:38.840 But the main part of episode three, like I said before, is seeing the Latin Mass movement
00:24:48.060 from a fresh perspective.
00:24:51.560 It's not the people with the microphones who make the loudest noises.
00:24:55.580 It's the mothers who, this is one of our stories, who marched from France to Rome with a pile of
00:25:03.020 letters to deliver to Pope Francis, begging him to reverse Traditiones Custodas.
00:25:08.800 We have stories like that all over the world of the real traditional Catholics.
00:25:14.280 We think that this film, episode three, is actually going to be a catalyst for the Latin Mass movement
00:25:22.700 going forward.
00:25:23.340 We think it could be likely that bishops see this, episode three, and who were negative,
00:25:30.020 or they didn't quite understand Latin Mass, because every time they see someone online,
00:25:33.780 he's angry and complaining.
00:25:35.400 Once they see episode three, we think their hearts will be moved to protect Latin Mass in
00:25:41.080 their dioceses.
00:25:42.260 We can't, our future is not by resisting and complaining.
00:25:46.220 It's through inviting and showing the beauty.
00:25:52.600 You know, we're not going to convince Pope Francis to reverse Traditiones Custodas because
00:25:56.260 he's wrong, but we're going to surprise him.
00:26:00.560 These are the true faces of the traditional Latin Mass movement, and we think episode three
00:26:04.860 is just going to be an inspiring banner that every traditional Catholic can get behind.
00:26:10.720 There is something really special about doing so in Africa.
00:26:14.680 I know you're in Africa.
00:26:17.760 Michael Hogan also films with you, and Michael just got back.
00:26:22.020 While he was there, I thought of something.
00:26:23.620 We have a lot of fans.
00:26:24.580 LifeSite News has a lot of fans in Africa.
00:26:26.200 In fact, we have a starting LifeSite News Africa sort of division, if you will, because
00:26:31.720 there's a lot of things going on in Africa.
00:26:34.780 The push of the West to force them into woke culture, if you will, is huge.
00:26:41.060 That's being done with all sorts of pressure.
00:26:43.040 But one of the things that is affecting them as well is the threat to remove the traditional
00:26:49.880 Latin Mass.
00:26:51.060 And you'd be so surprised.
00:26:52.640 And the numbers of very, very impoverished Africans who are totally devoted to Latin Mass.
00:27:01.040 It's amazing.
00:27:03.060 You can watch.
00:27:05.380 I've seen, because I've been sent the videos of LifeSite News fans over in Africa.
00:27:10.960 They're totally impoverished, but they're singing Latin hymns.
00:27:14.360 And these were older people who are still singing Latin hymns.
00:27:19.820 They don't speak English, but I can hear them singing Latin hymns.
00:27:24.840 Just a personal story on this.
00:27:27.220 My dad used to be a visa officer for Canada.
00:27:29.760 He was an immigration officer, if you will.
00:27:31.920 He knew six languages, so he's stationed all over the world accepting people into Canada.
00:27:38.340 And one of the things he told me is he always felt at home when he went to Mass because it
00:27:44.220 was in the common language that he knew.
00:27:46.340 It was the one time where everybody could be together in prayer.
00:27:53.800 And of course, when that was removed, he felt it was quite alienating because all of a sudden
00:27:59.400 it switched to whatever the vernacular was, wherever he was in the world.
00:28:04.360 And he was no longer at home in a way.
00:28:06.760 But it was so moving for me to hear these older African ladies singing Latin hymns because
00:28:13.360 it was just a beautiful way to connect.
00:28:14.940 What did you see in Africa?
00:28:16.880 I just want to paint a picture.
00:28:18.260 So imagine you're at a traditional parish and, you know, it can seat probably 800 people.
00:28:24.600 It's like a pretty sizable parish.
00:28:26.440 Well, there's a traditional ordination taking place and they can't fit everyone in the church.
00:28:31.820 So they have to set up a tent outside so that 2,000 people can kneel in the dirt and witness,
00:28:40.240 you know, bugs everywhere and hay bales and stuff.
00:28:43.740 But witness this traditional liturgy.
00:28:47.120 And then that takes a few hours.
00:28:49.780 Then they stay 2,000 people stay afterwards for two or more hours just to just to have fellowship
00:28:58.040 with each other to serve rice and beans out of huge barrels.
00:29:01.880 Like they're just, they just love being Catholic and they, and they love what they find in
00:29:07.840 the Latin mass.
00:29:08.500 And this is a universal thing.
00:29:10.400 So the importance of going to Africa was to show it's not just a niche Western thing,
00:29:16.880 but it's, it's universal.
00:29:18.540 This is why the, this is why the liturgy developed like this and became universal for the church.
00:29:24.620 It's because it, it is ours.
00:29:26.480 It's, it's the, it's our prayer to the father.
00:29:30.440 It's our way of, of becoming part of the Trinity.
00:29:34.080 Well, to not be heretical, to become sons and daughters of God and to participate in,
00:29:40.420 in the love of the Trinity has.
00:29:42.700 So yeah, this is, the liturgy is universal and this is why it works in Minnesota.
00:29:49.000 It works in Africa and works in South Korea.
00:29:52.940 It works everywhere.
00:29:54.840 One of the things that's often quoted is the devil hates Latin.
00:29:58.360 Have you heard anything about using Latin and why Latin?
00:30:02.460 Certainly almost every one of our interviews talks about why Latin is such a good,
00:30:06.720 a beautiful fitting language.
00:30:08.280 And actually Pope John the 23rd, who called Vatican II, had a document about why Latin is
00:30:14.940 the language of the church and why it needs to be protected.
00:30:17.940 And he listed a few reasons, you know, it's, it's universal.
00:30:21.480 It's, it's not subject to change.
00:30:23.740 Latin has been the language of the church for a reason.
00:30:26.620 I mean, even when Latin was the spoken language, um, you know, in the fourth century, the Latin
00:30:33.060 that was used for the liturgy was a high Latin.
00:30:35.300 It would be like using a high English.
00:30:37.100 If, if we had an English liturgy, it's kind of like the, uh, the, the English liturgy that
00:30:43.020 the, uh, Anglican liturgy, um, it's like a high English.
00:30:46.700 So the Latin that was used in the liturgy, even from the beginning was, was this high,
00:30:52.140 beautiful, like the best we can do.
00:30:55.380 That's the point of it.
00:30:56.220 It's like, this is the best we can do.
00:30:58.180 And Latin is just such a beautiful language.
00:31:00.540 Where do you go from here?
00:31:02.060 What are your next plans?
00:31:03.540 So episode three is actually the beginning, uh, for us.
00:31:07.640 So I want you guys to keep a couple of things in mind.
00:31:11.120 So right now, this is a generous estimate right now, 2% of practicing Catholics.
00:31:18.360 So just picture in your mind, okay.
00:31:19.920 Those in the pews, those who attend mass every Sunday, only 2% are attending Latin mass.
00:31:27.200 There's problems of perception.
00:31:28.940 What is the Latin mass?
00:31:30.300 There's problems of availability.
00:31:31.920 Where can I find one?
00:31:33.100 There's so many questions people have so many hurdles people have, but the other thing
00:31:38.260 to keep in mind is that, like I said earlier, 70% of bishops are favorable towards the Latin
00:31:44.660 mass based on their actions.
00:31:46.160 After tradition is custodis.
00:31:48.040 You can find this out at tradition is custodis.info.
00:31:52.060 It's not our website, but it's a helpful resource.
00:31:55.020 And you can see, yes, 70% of bishops have no restrictions on the Latin mass, little to
00:32:01.340 no restrictions.
00:32:02.720 So what we see in front of us is an opportunity.
00:32:05.680 Only 2% of Catholics attending Latin mass, but there's a bunch of green opportunity in
00:32:12.980 front of us where we have bishops, dioceses, diocesan priests who are open to learning about
00:32:21.240 it.
00:32:21.440 So what we're going to do is, this is our mission going forward is episode three is going
00:32:26.820 to make a big splash.
00:32:28.200 It's going to move hearts, but it's really the beginning because what we're going to do
00:32:32.560 is move the needle.
00:32:34.080 We're going to increase Latin masses worldwide.
00:32:36.920 We're going to double it and then we're going to triple it.
00:32:39.000 And we're going to keep going.
00:32:40.440 We're going to train priests.
00:32:41.580 We're going to train servers.
00:32:43.520 We're going to train choirs.
00:32:44.860 We're going to provide the most beautiful resources you can find online about the Latin mass.
00:32:49.500 And our laser focused goal is to increase Latin masses worldwide.
00:32:54.340 So if you go to latinmass.com right now, it's just about our films, but in the future, it's
00:33:00.800 going to be the front porch of the Latin mass community.
00:33:04.980 Anyone looking for it, anyone who wants to learn about it, we will have everything there.
00:33:09.880 And so I'm so excited to build that and announce that here soon.
00:33:13.340 You already have a little kit for people.
00:33:15.980 Do you not that you're already offering?
00:33:17.180 Right now we have a kit that has some prayers in it, some books in it, but what we're really
00:33:22.920 imagining for the future is imagine if a priest, a picture of a diocesan priest who's open
00:33:28.080 to the Latin mass.
00:33:29.120 Imagine if they could click a button and get everything they need to offer the Latin mass
00:33:34.340 delivered to their door, Latin mass in a box.
00:33:37.520 And it just breaks down every hurdle.
00:33:39.740 They don't need to go to a dozen different websites.
00:33:41.700 They don't need to look at really old, obscure videos on how to celebrate it.
00:33:46.420 We're really going to give them everything they need and to be trained to learn the Latin
00:33:50.340 mass because there's so many dioceses that have no restrictions.
00:33:54.420 So 2% is a lot compared to the 80s, but there's so much more, so much more room to grow.
00:34:03.040 And that's why we exist, to increase Latin masses.
00:34:06.560 Are you ready to go underground if you have to?
00:34:08.520 Well, what do you mean by that?
00:34:09.560 Well, the restrictions are there, and I think there are some in the upper echelons of the
00:34:16.960 church who are pretty firm in their resolve to do the opposite of your mission, to stamp
00:34:24.240 out the Latin mass.
00:34:25.700 There is a palpable hatred for Latin.
00:34:28.600 There is a frustration with tradition, and it goes hand in hand, by the way, with traditional
00:34:37.500 moral teaching.
00:34:39.740 So there's a real move to change the church in very fundamental ways.
00:34:46.680 And it's funny that they started with the traditional Latin mass, because if you remember, one of
00:34:52.460 the very first things that was done right out of the gate with Pope Francis was to attack
00:34:56.980 and basically shut down the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate.
00:35:00.680 They were number two on the list of orders or fraternities that looked after the Latin mass.
00:35:08.160 After the Fraternity of St. Peter itself, the FFIs did most Latin masses around the world,
00:35:15.680 and they were basically expunged from existence.
00:35:19.060 So there was a move on early on to attack the traditional Latin mass, and you've seen the
00:35:25.540 move to attack traditional moral teaching of the church.
00:35:29.220 We were just, LifeSite News was just at the cardinals.
00:35:33.000 There was a synod on synodality meeting in Rome, as well as all of the cardinals together
00:35:38.220 for the installation of the 20 new cardinals, including the cardinals from the United States
00:35:44.920 who were so controversial.
00:35:48.220 I won't say more about that now, but so there's this move going on.
00:35:53.040 There's a firm resolve to try and stamp out the Latin mass, at least among some of them,
00:35:57.900 should that get something of a foothold?
00:36:01.940 Do you have plans in place, sort of backup plans, if you will?
00:36:05.160 Yeah, I'm very optimistic about the Fraternity of St. Peter, specifically because the Pope
00:36:11.560 has expressly written to them and met with them saying, you keep doing what you're doing.
00:36:18.900 Now, the Fraternity of St. Peter isn't doing all the great work out there, so there's a lot
00:36:25.080 of suffering and a lot of damage control that needs to be done.
00:36:28.740 I'm optimistic about the Fraternity.
00:36:30.620 Let's say the Fraternity itself is shut down.
00:36:33.920 Well, then I'll move.
00:36:36.740 We'll pack up our bags and move to where we can find the Latin mass.
00:36:40.680 Now, what do you do if the Latin mass is banned everywhere?
00:36:46.100 So that's just an interesting thought experiment, if it can even be banned everywhere.
00:36:50.220 At that point, I don't know.
00:36:53.240 I'd have to consult my spiritual director, pray, because there would come a point, it would
00:37:01.060 seem, where the liturgy, if the Latin mass is banned and the liturgy continues to go off
00:37:09.040 in the wrong direction, there would come a point where Sunday mass violates the faith I'm
00:37:15.960 passing on to my family.
00:37:18.760 So if that's the case, then I'm not giving advice to anyone else out there.
00:37:25.120 I'm just saying for myself, I would strongly consider just finding an illicit Latin mass
00:37:32.480 that is obviously valid and that, but that does not war against the faith I'm trying to
00:37:40.760 instill in my family.
00:37:41.660 The things I just mentioned, that's a lot of things that would have to happen for me
00:37:45.960 to, quote unquote, go underground.
00:37:47.920 But I'm very optimistic about the future of the church.
00:37:51.020 I think it's no accident that the Lord has called us here right now to tell the world about
00:37:57.100 the Latin mass, to build Latin mass communities, because Pope Francis isn't the future of the
00:38:06.320 church in the sense that he's not going to be around forever.
00:38:08.880 Whoever comes after him is not going to be around forever.
00:38:11.000 The Latin mass will survive.
00:38:14.380 And I'm just optimistic that the church, though it's going through a confusing time, will protect
00:38:22.440 and pass on the traditional liturgy.
00:38:25.060 And so in the meantime, what am I doing tomorrow?
00:38:28.420 I'm praying traditional prayers going to the Latin mass.
00:38:31.940 And that's where we all have to look.
00:38:35.520 Don't get too concerned with what happens tomorrow.
00:38:39.840 I'll look at it today.
00:38:41.040 Absolutely.
00:38:42.060 It is, after all, the mass of the ages.
00:38:45.420 Thank you so much, Cameron, for being with us.
00:38:47.580 Thanks, John Henry.
00:38:48.360 It was a pleasure.
00:38:49.500 I appreciate it.
00:38:50.400 And God bless all of you.
00:38:51.780 And we'll see you next time.
00:38:52.660 Hi, everyone.
00:38:55.420 This is John Henry Weston.
00:38:56.420 We hope you enjoyed this video.
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00:39:16.760 Thanks for watching.
00:39:17.980 And may God bless you.
00:39:19.180 We'll see you next time.