'Mass of the Ages' trilogy aims to show Francis who traditional Catholics really are
Summary
Mass of the Ages Director, Cameron O'Hearn, joins us to talk about the importance of this film and why it is so important for Catholics to see it. Episode 3 is out now, and it's a must-see!
Transcript
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We think that this film, Episode 3, is actually going to be a catalyst for the Latin Mass movement going forward.
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We think it could be likely that bishops see this, Episode 3, and who were negative or they didn't quite understand Latin Mass,
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because every time they see someone online, he's angry and complaining.
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Once they see Episode 3, we think their hearts will be moved to protect Latin Mass and their dioceses.
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There is huge controversy in all the Church over the traditional Latin Mass.
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There's been a move to seemingly shut it down, although it's said, oh, it's just being moved to certain parishes and whatnot, or certain places.
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There aren't parishes. It looks like it might even end by May 2023. There's hints of that.
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It's unbelievable what's going on. The Cardinals in Rome just addressed the issue.
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Cardinal Roche, in comments to LifeSite News as well, they're talking about wanting to listen.
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But a lot of faithful Catholics, particularly young people, are very frustrated with this new process,
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and they're wondering why they're not being heard.
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There's all sorts of pilgrimages going on, prayer petitions going on, everything happening.
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It couldn't be a more opportune time to be in the middle of releasing a film on the traditional Latin Mass called Mass of the Ages.
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Yet, this providential thing is happening. You've probably already seen it.
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We have the head of that project here, Cameron O'Hearn. Stay tuned.
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Thanks for having me. You're a professional. You're good at your job.
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Let's begin, as you always do, with the sign of the cross.
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In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.
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I can imagine a lot of Hollywood producers would hope to have started some project,
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and then in the middle of it, have something go on on a worldwide scale that fit right into their project.
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Well, Scripture says that a man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps.
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So, obviously, we weren't planning on releasing Traditiones Custodis, because that's not our project.
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But Traditiones Custodis came out restricting the Latin Mass.
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And at that point, we were just a month away, almost exactly to the day of releasing Episode 1.
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And so, it was already in the hopper, ready to go.
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We released Episode 1, and it snowballed into Episode 2, which dealt with the changes to the Mass after Vatican II.
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It can only be seen as providential, because this isn't a master plan I have.
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And the more I stay out of the way, the more good he seems to do.
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And the other thing I want to say is, I think we have a great opportunity in front of us.
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But think of why Pope Francis wrote Traditiones Custodis.
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It's because he has a perception in mind of who the Latin Mass Catholics are and why they attend Latin Mass.
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He's spoken publicly that he thinks they have a mental problem, maybe.
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He doesn't quite understand why traditional Catholics attend Latin Mass.
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He was ordained right before the new Mass came out.
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And so, his experience of the Latin Mass is always secondhand.
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And unfortunately, his perception is influenced by the loudest people in the room.
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And sometimes the loudest ones in the room are also the most angry, the most embittered.
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But we have an opportunity in front of us to reframe the Latin Mass movement and to show Pope Francis who we really are.
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So, I'm thrilled that, yes, episode one was opportune, episode two kind of upset the apple cart and did a lot of good.
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But episode three, I think, is really our flagship film that's going to put a new face on the Latin Mass movement.
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Who are the people who attend the traditional Latin Mass from what you've seen?
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The Latin Mass movement is characterized by resistance.
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Since the 1980s, when you had individuals, especially SSPX, resisting in order to protect something that they knew needed to be protected, the Latin Mass and tradition, traditional Catholicism.
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So, it's characterized by this reaction, this resistance.
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And in the digital landscape online, the loudest voices, you know, get seen and heard the most.
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That's what you can say is, you know, the tip of the iceberg, for lack of a better metaphor.
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But I would say that the real face of the Latin Mass movement, I've traveled all around the country.
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We're following all these stories all across the world.
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And the majority, the faithful majority of Latin Mass Catholics are not inherently angry.
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They don't really talk about Vatican II that much.
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So, the real face of the Latin Mass movement is happy, is happy that they found this treasure that they can now pass on to their families.
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I think, however, with Traditiones Castoras has also come out more of the kind of, we want to defend it.
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It's sort of resurged that movement to defend it because a lot of people, especially young people who have just discovered it, see a threat to it right now as well.
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But they must also see the hand of God going on, not only in Mass of the Ages.
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And I wanted to surprise you with this question.
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But since you raised it this way, Shia LaBeouf.
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You know, the interview with Bishop Barron comes out.
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The first thing that hit the news, of course, was this commentary over the Latin Mass.
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Well, because they're not trying to sell me a car.
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Can you give, I think a lot of people were, who saw it, because nearly a million views on that video.
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And I think a lot of people, particularly those who perhaps haven't gone to the Latin Mass, they have no idea what Shia is talking about.
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What does he mean by, they're not trying to sell me a car?
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Almost from the office, activate the audience without putting the agency on the priest.
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Which is where the singing and the back and forth comes from.
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Whereas Old Latin Mass put all the agency on the priest to be fully activated.
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And that activation of the priest was supposed to activate the audience, activate the laity.
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And so, and I don't want to get too far into this because then you get into controversy.
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Because it feels like they're not selling me a car.
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And when I go to some Mass with the guitars and stuff, and I'm from, you know, Santa Inez, right?
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And there's a lot of like what feels like, like they're trying to sell me on an idea.
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Whereas what I feel when I went to Oakland and went to like, and by the way, there's a very incredible version of that as well.
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That's super activating and very emotional that I've experienced up there with Father Bobby.
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But there's also this, something that happened, you know, Christ the King in Oakland does a Latin Mass every day of the week.
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And it feels like it's not being done to sell me on anything.
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And it feels almost like, like I'm being let in on something very special.
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And the quiet, it activates something in me where it feels like I found something.
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I think that's unfortunately a really accurate description of what a lot of Catholics experience of the new Mass is Sunday after Sunday.
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I mean, I grew up with the new Mass and also a faithful Catholic family.
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I never really rejected my faith, so I had a good upbringing.
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But to be honest, I started to put my finger on what I saw as a problem.
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I didn't quite understand what the problem was.
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But when I would go to Mass, it seemed like the priest was pretending to do liturgy or put more, you know, accurately, pretending to be at Calvary.
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And it just, especially for a man, feels, it's not really saying anything important.
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It's not presenting anything that I want to fight for.
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And when I want to take people into the church and, you know, family members who are, you know, one foot in, one foot out, I definitely want to take them to Mass.
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I was always cringing because it did feel like the priest was trying to sell us something instead of just showing us the truth.
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And when I would go to Latin Mass, it didn't feel like we were pretending to be at Calvary.
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Our knees were in the dust, and something mysterious and beautiful was happening, and I could just silently be there worshiping God.
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A lot of people haven't experienced this, and so that comparison might sound mean.
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But when you understand that the new Mass was built in order for Catholics to understand what's going on,
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the basis of it was that the faithful can actively participate in the liturgy.
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That's the sole focus of the changes to the liturgy is so the faithful can participate.
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But unfortunately, this got implemented in such a way that it's about understanding everything going on.
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Well, who is supposed to understand what's going on?
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If a theologian understands different things going on, if it's about everyone understanding everything that's going on, well, that's just banal.
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That doesn't give me anything interesting or anything worth fighting for.
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Whereas the Latin Mass is all about stirring up your devotion.
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And a four-year-old, a theologian, whoever you are, you know that a song is beautiful.
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You know that something important is happening.
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You just got to see it, and you got to feel it, and you got to hear it.
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And that's what we lost with the changes to the new Mass.
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The difference between devotion and understanding everything that's going on.
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Some of the basic changes to the Mass, and we're going to get into why and how in a minute.
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But some of the basic changes, most of the time, from the traditional Latin Mass, if you go there, you'll notice the priest comes out.
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Now, sometimes with an altar boy, and it's slightly different.
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But he still comes out, except the priest doesn't face here.
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So, the priest is facing the East, or the tabernacle for the most part, or whatever.
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And the people are sort of facing East with him.
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But you said, trying to pretend to be at Calvary.
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Because I think one piece of understanding that needs to be conveyed, first and foremost, is that what is the Mass?
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The Mass is participation in the sacrifice of the cross, in the sacrifice of Calvary.
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So, we're sort of mystically present at the crucifixion.
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One of the best descriptions I've ever heard from my spiritual director about what to do with Mass is the same thing you do at Calvary.
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You're there in front of our Lord being crucified for you, being offered up to the Eternal Father.
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If you were there, if you were actually somehow transported in the time machine back there, you wouldn't understand a word.
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You're hearing Aramaic from, you know, some of the followers.
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And you know something superbly mysterious is going on.
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Our ladies, they're under the cross watching this.
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You know, you've got probably some in the crowd looking on, not wanting to be known as supporters.
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It's interesting because in Latin Mass, the priest is now facing away, sort of away from the people, but toward Christ with the people.
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So, we're all with him looking at Jesus crucified, and then he is himself in persona Christi.
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Give us a little bit of that before we move on to the next part.
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Probably the thing that sticks out most to people when they go is the priest is not looking at you.
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The other thing they notice is a lot of it is in silence.
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There's this music that's in a different language, or even prayers, different language.
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The interesting thing is these are things that Vatican II itself didn't even want to throw out entirely.
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I think seeing the priest, you know, facing the altar, you know, it's interesting.
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Bishop Schneider, when we interviewed him, this is in our hours of footage speaking with him, he said that if all over the world, you could just have the priest at every Mass, including the new Masses, facing East, facing the Alt Orientum, facing the altar, that would solve most of the liturgical problems.
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And Cardinal Ratzinger, Pope Benedict XVI, echoed that.
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It's not about trying to get me to stop talking to me.
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The unfortunate thing with turning the priest around and having everything out loud in your spoken language is that it becomes very flat and linear.
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We're all kind of plodding along, saying the same prayers together.
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My four-year-old is definitely at a different place.
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So, the great thing about priests facing East and a lot of silence and a language you don't understand is that we can just worship God no matter where we're coming from.
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One of the things you also said was they're not against Vatican II.
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In fact, the changes of the Mass, it could rightfully be said, don't actually have to do with the new Mass we have now.
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This is detailed in Episode 2 of Mass of the Ages.
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And the key thing that we wanted to communicate in that episode was we don't even need to talk about Vatican II.
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The traditional Catholic response to the new Mass and what happened after Vatican II shares the same premise.
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Different people add different premises, but the main thing we're saying is something went wrong.
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You can easily see this just by comparing the new Mass with the documents of Vatican II.
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And not just the new Mass practiced by some crazy liturgical experimentation, but just the actual missal.
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So, for example, in the documents that came shortly after Vatican II, the important thing to know is there was a committee, a concilium, whose job it was to implement Sacrosanctum Concilium.
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So, the document of the liturgy at Vatican II, their job was to implement that document.
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So, they released letters, you know, slowly implementing changes over the course of five or so years.
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And Vatican II said, let there be no innovations unless the good of the church genuinely and certainly requires them.
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And any changes need to grow out of things already existing.
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So, you'd have to be able to look around the world and say, this is a good development.
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But then you had the concilium, just whole hog, throwing out prayers, excising so many of the orations, the prayers in the Mass.
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Saying, let's, it is preferential that the altar be built apart from the wall, including adapting current churches.
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So, people ripping out altars was something that was commanded from the top down.
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Instead of Latin being a small part, or the spoken language being a small part of the liturgy, Pope Paul VI said no longer Latin.
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But the spoken language will be the principal language of the Mass.
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We have Vatican II that says X, and we have the implementation of Vatican II, which did the opposite.
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The traditional Catholic response is primarily something went wrong.
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And this happened from the concilium led by Pope Paul VI.
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So, the way forward is to look with honest eyes at what went wrong and pray for your church.
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And in the meantime, I say, go to Latin Mass, because there you find, this is the funny thing.
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I think the Latin Mass is more like Sacra Sanctum Concilium than the New Mass.
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You know, it describes liturgy as this solemn, beautiful sacrifice of the Blessed Trinity.
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You have to suspend your disbelief at the New Mass to believe you're doing anything, you know, really important.
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So, yeah, I think, funny enough, the Latin Mass is more like what Vatican II said than even the New Mass.
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Your journey that's in the midst of this, you're a young man.
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So, many people would think, oh, the Latin Mass is all about old people stuck to their old tradition.
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And here, there's actually an overabundance of young people.
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I'd like you just to tell us of your experiences going throughout the world, looking at Latin Masses.
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The audience at Latin Mass is primarily young families.
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Parishes that we visit, especially since COVID, have just been brimming with young people.
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The priests are, their schedules are packed with confessions and baptisms.
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An interesting metric is to just look at baptisms versus funerals.
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And you find that a lot of just generic parishes, they'll have a lot of funerals and few baptisms.
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A lot of young people are discovering the Latin Mass as something new and exciting,
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not because it tries to speak their language or get on their level or be hip or whatever.
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Just show us something beautiful and we'll flock to it.
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And that's what young people are saying all over the world is we just love this thing.
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We're not even into the politics, what's going on with the church.
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We don't even understand what's going on in the church half the time.
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But we know that this Mass is the Mass we want for our families.
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I haven't looked too much into the priests of the Latin Mass.
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I can just say from personal experience that they're just, again, they're not the people
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with the microphones and the cameras making a big fuss.
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They go to Mass, and they celebrate the Latin Mass, and they're praying the Mass.
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And the holier your priest is, the more devoted he is, the more meditative he is, the more
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So the kinds of priests you find at the Latin Mass are just concerned with giving God proper
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And they're not concerned with having you tag along.
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But yeah, I would say that the majority of Latin Mass priests are just in love with tradition.
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Because we want to be led by someone who is fighting for something, not someone who's trying
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In the third episode of Mass of the Ages, you guys are pointing out the differences, I presume,
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You have this one brilliant thing I just caught on Twitter where you're showing the old Mass
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and the prayers that were just excised from it in a really neat way of showing that.
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It'll blow your mind that the amount of things changed, how many things were changed, and how much
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I think after watching Episode 2, you'll feel in your heart that something went wrong.
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Now, Episode 3 is about, well, what do we do now?
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So, we're going to explain to people, after the new Mass came out, how did the Latin Mass come
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How did it emerge through the likes of, you know, Marcel Lefebvre with the SSPX, the fraternity,
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the Institute, the resistance, even at the very beginning, you had Indolts before Lefebvre.
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Also, there's an interesting investigation into Traditiones Custodas itself, because there was a
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survey sent out to the world's bishops that basically said, is Latin Mass good or bad?
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What's interesting is there's more to the story, because one little tip is, if you look actually
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around the world at what bishops are doing, because actions speak louder than words, we want
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to know what a bishop thinks about the Latin Mass.
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What are they doing after Traditiones Custodas?
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And the interesting thing is, 70% of them that have made public statements have no restrictions
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So, they're just positive towards the Latin Mass.
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So, it's interesting that Pope Francis felt the need to intervene.
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He felt compelled to intervene, because the Latin Mass was such a big problem.
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But the main part of Episode 3, like I said before, is seeing the Latin Mass movement from
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It's not the people with the microphones who make the loudest noises.
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It's the mothers who, this is one of our stories, who marched from France to Rome with a pile of
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letters to deliver to Pope Francis, begging him to reverse Traditiones Custodas.
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We have stories like that all over the world of the real traditional Catholics.
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We think that this film, Episode 3, is actually going to be a catalyst for the Latin Mass movement
00:25:23.340
We think it could be likely that bishops see this, Episode 3, and who were negative, or
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they didn't quite understand Latin Mass, because every time they see someone online, he's angry
00:25:35.540
Once they see Episode 3, we think their hearts will be moved to protect Latin Mass in their
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We can't, our future is not by resisting and complaining.
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You know, we're not going to convince Pope Francis to reverse Traditiones Custodas because
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These are the true faces of the traditional Latin Mass movement, and we think Episode 3 is
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just going to be an inspiring banner that every traditional Catholic can get behind.
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There is something really special about doing so in Africa.
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Michael Hogan also films with you, and Michael just got back.
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In fact, we have a starting LifeSite News Africa sort of division, if you will, because
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The push of the West to force them into woke culture, if you will, is huge.
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But one of the things that is affecting them as well is the threat to remove the traditional
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And the numbers of very, very impoverished Africans who are totally devoted to Latin Mass.
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I've seen, because I've been sent the videos of LifeSite News fans over in Africa.
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They're totally impoverished, but they're singing Latin hymns.
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And these were older people who are still singing Latin hymns.
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They don't speak English, but I can hear them singing Latin hymns.
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He knew six languages, so he's stationed all over the world accepting people into Canada.
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And one of the things he told me is he always felt at home when he went to Mass because it
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It was the one time where everybody could be together in prayer.
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And, of course, when that was removed, he felt it was quite alienating because all of
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a sudden it switched to whatever the vernacular was, wherever he was in the world, and he was
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But it was so moving for me to hear these older African ladies singing Latin hymns because
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So imagine you're at a traditional parish, and, you know, it can seat probably 800 people.
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Well, there's a traditional ordination taking place, and they can't fit everyone in the church.
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So they have to set up a tent outside so that 2,000 people can kneel in the dirt and witness,
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you know, bugs everywhere and hay bales and stuff, but witness the traditional liturgy.
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2,000 people stay afterwards for two or more hours just to have fellowship with each other,
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Like, they just love being Catholic, and they love what they find in the Latin Mass.
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So the importance of going to Africa was to show it's not just a niche Western thing, but
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This is why the liturgy developed like this and became universal for the church.
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Well, to not be heretical, to become sons and daughters of God, and to participate in
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So, yeah, the liturgy is universal, and this is why it works in Minnesota.
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One of the things that's often quoted is, the devil hates Latin.
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Have you heard anything about using Latin and why Latin?
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Certainly, almost every one of our interviews talks about why Latin is such a good, a beautiful,
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And actually, Pope John XXIII, who called Vatican II, had a document about why Latin is the language
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of the church and why it needs to be protected.
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Latin has been the language of the church for a reason.
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I mean, even when Latin was the spoken language, you know, in the fourth century, the Latin
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that was used for the liturgy was a high Latin.
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It would be like using a high English if we had an English liturgy.
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It's kind of like the English liturgy, the Anglican liturgy.
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So the Latin that was used in the liturgy, even from the beginning, was this high, beautiful,
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So episode three is actually the beginning for us.
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So I want you guys to keep a couple things in mind.
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So just picture in your mind, okay, those in the pews, those who attend Mass every Sunday,
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There's so many questions people have, so many hurdles people have.
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But the other thing to keep in mind is that, like I said earlier, 70% of bishops are favorable
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towards the Latin Mass based on their actions after Traditionis Custodis.
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You can find this out at TraditionisCustodis.info.
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It's not our website, but it's a helpful resource.
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And you can see, yes, 70% of bishops have no restrictions on the Latin Mass, little to
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So what we see in front of us is an opportunity.
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Only 2% of Catholics attending Latin Mass, but there's a bunch of green opportunity in
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front of us where we have bishops, dioceses, diocesan priests who are open to learning
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So what we're going to do is, this is our mission going forward, is episode three is
00:32:29.720
But it's really the beginning, because what we're going to do is move the needle.
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We're going to increase Latin Masses worldwide.
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We're going to double it, and then we're going to triple it, and we're going to keep going.
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We're going to provide the most beautiful resources you can find online about the Latin
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And our laser-focused goal is to increase Latin Masses worldwide.
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So if you go to latinmass.com right now, it's just about our films.
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But in the future, it's going to be the front porch of the Latin Mass community.
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Anyone looking for it, anyone who wants to learn about it, we'll have everything there.
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And so I'm so excited to build that and announce that here soon.
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You already have a little kit for people, do you not, that you're already offering?
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Right now, we have a kit that has some prayers in it, some books in it.
00:33:21.160
But what we're really imagining for the future is imagine if a priest, a picture of a diocesan
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priest who's open to the Latin Mass, imagine if they could click a button and get everything
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they need to offer the Latin Mass delivered to their door, Latin Mass in a box.
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They don't need to go to a dozen different websites.
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They don't need to look at really old, obscure videos on how to celebrate it.
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We're really going to give them everything they need and to be trained to learn the Latin Mass
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because there's so many dioceses that have no restrictions.
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But there's so much more, so much more room to grow.
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And that's why we exist, to increase Latin Masses.
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Are you ready to go underground if you have to?
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And I think there are some in the upper echelons of the Church who are pretty firm in their
00:34:19.160
resolve to do the opposite of your mission, to stamp out the Latin Mass.
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And it goes hand-in-hand, by the way, with traditional moral teaching.
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So there's a real move to change the Church in very fundamental ways.
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And it's funny that they started with the traditional Latin Mass.
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Because if you remember, one of the very first things that was done right out of the gate
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with Pope Francis was to attack and basically shut down the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate.
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They were number two on the list of orders or fraternities that looked after the Latin Mass.
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After the Fraternity of St. Peter itself, the FFIs did most Latin Masses around the world.
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And they were basically expunged from existence.
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So there was a move on early on to attack the traditional Latin Mass.
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And you've seen the move to attack traditional moral teaching of the Church.
00:35:29.220
We were just, LifeSite News was just at the Cardinals.
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There was a Synod on Synodality meeting in Rome, as well as all of the Cardinals together
00:35:38.220
for the installation of the 20 new Cardinals, including the Cardinals from the United States
00:35:52.180
So there's a firm resolve to try and stamp out the Latin Mass, at least among some of them.
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Do you have plans in place, sort of backup plans, if you will?
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I'm very optimistic about the Fraternity of St. Peter, specifically because the Pope has expressly
00:36:13.460
written to them and met with them saying, you keep doing what you're doing.
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Now, the Fraternity of St. Peter, it doesn't, isn't doing all the great work out there.
00:36:24.160
So there's a lot of suffering and a lot of damage control that needs to be done.
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If I'm optimistic about the Fraternity, let's say the Fraternity itself is shut down, well,
00:36:36.640
We'll pack up our bags and move to where we can find the Latin Mass.
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Now, what do you do if the Latin Mass is banned everywhere?
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So that's just an interesting thought experiment, if it can even be banned everywhere.
00:36:52.580
So I'd have to consult my spiritual director, pray, because there would come a point, it
00:37:00.940
would seem, where the liturgy, if the Latin Mass is banned and the liturgy continues to
00:37:08.380
go off in the wrong direction, there would come a point where Sunday Mass violates the
00:37:17.320
Um, so if that's the case, then there would, I'm not giving advice to anyone else out there.
00:37:25.180
I'm just saying for myself, I would strongly consider just finding, um, an illicit Latin
00:37:32.040
Mass that is obviously valid and, and that, but that does not war against the faith I'm
00:37:41.900
The things I just mentioned, like, that's a lot of things that would have to happen for
00:37:45.800
me to quote unquote, go underground, but, um, I'm very optimistic about the future of
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I think it's no accident that the Lord has called us here right now to tell the world
00:37:56.840
about the Latin Mass, to build Latin Mass communities because, um, Pope Francis, um, isn't, you know,
00:38:05.120
the future of the church in the sense that he's not going to be around forever.
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Whoever comes after him is not going to be around forever.
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The Latin Mass will survive, and I'm just optimistic that the church, though it's going
00:38:19.400
through a confusing time, will protect and pass on the traditional liturgy.
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And so in the meantime, what am I doing tomorrow?
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I'm praying traditional prayers going to the Latin Mass, and, um, that's where we all have
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Don't get too concerned with, uh, what happens, you know, tomorrow, I'll look at today.
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And God bless all of you, and we'll see you next time.
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