The John-Henry Westen Show - 'Mass of the Ages' trilogy aims to show Francis who traditional Catholics really are

00:00:00.000 We think that this film, Episode 3, is actually going to be a catalyst for the Latin Mass movement going forward.

00:00:09.000 We think it could be likely that bishops see this, Episode 3, and who were negative or they didn't quite understand Latin Mass,

00:00:17.320 because every time they see someone online, he's angry and complaining.

00:00:20.900 Once they see Episode 3, we think their hearts will be moved to protect Latin Mass and their dioceses.

00:00:27.300 There is huge controversy in all the Church over the traditional Latin Mass.

00:00:33.840 There's been a move to seemingly shut it down, although it's said, oh, it's just being moved to certain parishes and whatnot, or certain places.

00:00:40.800 There aren't parishes. It looks like it might even end by May 2023. There's hints of that.

00:00:46.820 It's unbelievable what's going on. The Cardinals in Rome just addressed the issue.

00:00:50.960 Cardinal Roche, in comments to LifeSite News as well, they're talking about wanting to listen.

00:00:56.440 But a lot of faithful Catholics, particularly young people, are very frustrated with this new process,

00:01:02.980 and they're wondering why they're not being heard.

00:01:05.640 There's all sorts of pilgrimages going on, prayer petitions going on, everything happening.

00:01:10.800 It couldn't be a more opportune time to be in the middle of releasing a film on the traditional Latin Mass called Mass of the Ages.

00:01:19.620 Yet, this providential thing is happening. You've probably already seen it.

00:01:24.460 We have the head of that project here, Cameron O'Hearn. Stay tuned.

00:01:27.600 Cameron, thanks for joining us.

00:01:47.900 Thanks for having me. You're a professional. You're good at your job.

00:01:50.400 Let's begin, as you always do, with the sign of the cross.

00:01:55.040 In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.

00:02:00.480 It's incredible timing for you.

00:02:02.780 I can imagine a lot of Hollywood producers would hope to have started some project,

00:02:09.580 and then in the middle of it, have something go on on a worldwide scale that fit right into their project.

00:02:15.640 That's happened to you.

00:02:17.500 What have you got to say about that?

00:02:18.960 Well, Scripture says that a man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps.

00:02:24.300 And that's been this project from day one.

00:02:26.560 So, obviously, we weren't planning on releasing Traditiones Custodis, because that's not our project.

00:02:33.620 But Traditiones Custodis came out restricting the Latin Mass.

00:02:37.360 And at that point, we were just a month away, almost exactly to the day of releasing Episode 1.

00:02:44.100 And so, it was already in the hopper, ready to go.

00:02:46.640 We released Episode 1, and it snowballed into Episode 2, which dealt with the changes to the Mass after Vatican II.

00:02:54.260 It can only be seen as providential, because this isn't a master plan I have.

00:03:01.180 This is the Lord's work.

00:03:03.060 And the more I stay out of the way, the more good he seems to do.

00:03:07.100 And the other thing I want to say is, I think we have a great opportunity in front of us.

00:03:11.840 So, yes, it's providential.

00:03:13.180 Yes, great film at just the opportune time.

00:03:16.660 But think of why Pope Francis wrote Traditiones Custodis.

00:03:21.840 It's because he has a perception in mind of who the Latin Mass Catholics are and why they attend Latin Mass.

00:03:28.760 He doesn't understand it. 0.96

00:03:30.660 He's spoken publicly that he thinks they have a mental problem, maybe.

00:03:35.360 He doesn't quite understand why traditional Catholics attend Latin Mass.

00:03:39.120 He was ordained right before the new Mass came out.

00:03:43.060 And so, his experience of the Latin Mass is always secondhand.

00:03:46.820 And unfortunately, his perception is influenced by the loudest people in the room.

00:03:53.220 And sometimes the loudest ones in the room are also the most angry, the most embittered.

00:03:58.720 Yes, sometimes that's understandable.

00:04:01.260 But we have an opportunity in front of us to reframe the Latin Mass movement and to show Pope Francis who we really are.

00:04:10.080 So, I'm thrilled that, yes, episode one was opportune, episode two kind of upset the apple cart and did a lot of good.

00:04:19.120 But episode three, I think, is really our flagship film that's going to put a new face on the Latin Mass movement.

00:04:25.200 Explain that for us.

00:04:26.480 What was the perception before?

00:04:28.760 What is it now?

00:04:30.360 Who are the people who attend the traditional Latin Mass from what you've seen?

00:04:34.640 The Latin Mass movement is characterized by resistance.

00:04:37.720 Since the 1980s, when you had individuals, especially SSPX, resisting in order to protect something that they knew needed to be protected, the Latin Mass and tradition, traditional Catholicism.

00:04:53.300 So, it's characterized by this reaction, this resistance.

00:04:57.880 And in the digital landscape online, the loudest voices, you know, get seen and heard the most.

00:05:06.220 And that's the few.

00:05:08.660 That's what you can say is, you know, the tip of the iceberg, for lack of a better metaphor.

00:05:14.160 But I would say that the real face of the Latin Mass movement, I've traveled all around the country.

00:05:19.260 We've traveled to Europe, Africa.

00:05:22.500 We've traveled to Rome.

00:05:24.100 We're following all these stories all across the world.

00:05:26.420 And the majority, the faithful majority of Latin Mass Catholics are not inherently angry.

00:05:36.000 They're not complaining.

00:05:37.940 They don't hate the Pope.

00:05:40.400 They don't even reject Vatican II.

00:05:42.920 They don't really talk about Vatican II that much.

00:05:45.360 They just love the Latin Mass.

00:05:47.560 And they love what it does for their families.

00:05:50.280 So, the real face of the Latin Mass movement is happy, is happy that they found this treasure that they can now pass on to their families.

00:06:02.140 It's an amazing thing.

00:06:03.000 I think, however, with Traditiones Castoras has also come out more of the kind of, we want to defend it.

00:06:11.940 It's sort of resurged that movement to defend it because a lot of people, especially young people who have just discovered it, see a threat to it right now as well.

00:06:21.280 But they must also see the hand of God going on, not only in Mass of the Ages.

00:06:27.820 And I wanted to surprise you with this question.

00:06:29.620 I didn't plan to surprise you with it.

00:06:31.140 But since you raised it this way, Shia LaBeouf.

00:06:34.660 So, this is super interesting.

00:06:37.320 It just happened in the past weekend.

00:06:40.420 You know, the interview with Bishop Barron comes out.

00:06:44.640 All sorts of controversy.

00:06:45.640 The first thing that hit the news, of course, was this commentary over the Latin Mass.

00:06:50.920 Something like, you know, he explains it.

00:06:53.200 And why do you like it?

00:06:54.380 Well, because they're not trying to sell me a car.

00:06:58.700 Can you give, I think a lot of people were, who saw it, because nearly a million views on that video.

00:07:05.340 And I think a lot of people, particularly those who perhaps haven't gone to the Latin Mass, they have no idea what Shia is talking about.

00:07:12.540 We want them to go and see it.

00:07:13.500 But give us an insight.

00:07:14.620 What does he mean by, they're not trying to sell me a car?

00:07:19.800 Almost from the office, activate the audience without putting the agency on the priest.

00:07:25.620 We have full, conscious, active participation.

00:07:28.540 Which is where the singing and the back and forth comes from.

00:07:31.320 Whereas Old Latin Mass put all the agency on the priest to be fully activated.

00:07:35.740 And that activation of the priest was supposed to activate the audience, activate the laity.

00:07:43.720 That all the agency was put on the priest.

00:07:46.260 And so, and I don't want to get too far into this because then you get into controversy.

00:07:49.900 But Latin Mass affects me deeply.

00:07:53.080 Deeply.

00:07:53.740 How come?

00:07:54.140 Because it feels like they're not selling me a car.

00:07:57.960 And when I go to some Mass with the guitars and stuff, and I'm from, you know, Santa Inez, right?

00:08:02.620 So that's where I was catechized.

00:08:04.500 And there's a lot of guitar playing.

00:08:05.860 And there's a lot of like what feels like, like they're trying to sell me on an idea.

00:08:10.680 Whereas what I feel when I went to Oakland and went to like, and by the way, there's a very incredible version of that as well.

00:08:18.720 That's super activating and very emotional that I've experienced up there with Father Bobby.

00:08:22.800 There's also, and Father Peter.

00:08:24.940 But there's also this, something that happened, you know, Christ the King in Oakland does a Latin Mass every day of the week.

00:08:31.300 And it feels like it's not being done to sell me on anything.

00:08:36.620 And it feels almost like, like I'm being let in on something very special.

00:08:41.960 And the quiet, it activates something in me where it feels like I found something.

00:08:51.800 I think that's unfortunately a really accurate description of what a lot of Catholics experience of the new Mass is Sunday after Sunday.

00:09:02.560 I mean, I grew up with the new Mass and also a faithful Catholic family.

00:09:08.040 I never really rejected my faith, so I had a good upbringing.

00:09:12.300 But to be honest, I started to put my finger on what I saw as a problem.

00:09:19.060 I didn't quite understand what the problem was.

00:09:20.900 But when I would go to Mass, it seemed like the priest was pretending to do liturgy or put more, you know, accurately, pretending to be at Calvary.

00:09:35.460 And it just, especially for a man, feels, it's not really saying anything important.

00:09:41.020 It's not really challenging me.

00:09:42.860 It's not presenting anything that I want to fight for.

00:09:45.840 And when I want to take people into the church and, you know, family members who are, you know, one foot in, one foot out, I definitely want to take them to Mass.

00:09:56.700 Let's go to confession.

00:09:57.540 Let's go to Mass.

00:09:58.360 But at the new Mass, it was always cringing.

00:10:01.260 I was always cringing because it did feel like the priest was trying to sell us something instead of just showing us the truth.

00:10:08.620 And when I would go to Latin Mass, it didn't feel like we were pretending to be at Calvary.

00:10:13.980 It felt like we were there.

00:10:15.840 Our knees were in the dust, and something mysterious and beautiful was happening, and I could just silently be there worshiping God.

00:10:26.040 And you're right.

00:10:27.440 A lot of people haven't experienced this, and so that comparison might sound mean.

00:10:32.440 But when you understand that the new Mass was built in order for Catholics to understand what's going on,

00:10:40.080 the basis of it was that the faithful can actively participate in the liturgy.

00:10:45.720 That's the sole focus of the changes to the liturgy is so the faithful can participate.

00:10:51.220 But unfortunately, this got implemented in such a way that it's about understanding everything going on.

00:10:58.860 Well, who is supposed to understand what's going on?

00:11:02.680 My four-year-old?

00:11:03.980 If a theologian understands different things going on, if it's about everyone understanding everything that's going on, well, that's just banal.

00:11:12.920 That's boring.

00:11:13.840 That doesn't give me anything interesting or anything worth fighting for.

00:11:17.740 Whereas the Latin Mass is all about stirring up your devotion. 0.99

00:11:22.280 And a four-year-old, a theologian, whoever you are, you know that a song is beautiful.

00:11:28.740 You know that something important is happening.

00:11:31.180 You just got to see it, and you got to feel it, and you got to hear it.

00:11:34.280 And that's what we lost with the changes to the new Mass.

00:11:37.460 The difference between devotion and understanding everything that's going on.

00:11:41.560 Some of the basic changes to the Mass, and we're going to get into why and how in a minute.

00:11:46.980 But some of the basic changes, most of the time, from the traditional Latin Mass, if you go there, you'll notice the priest comes out.

00:11:56.760 Now, sometimes with an altar boy, and it's slightly different.

00:12:01.160 But he still comes out, except the priest doesn't face here.

00:12:05.700 So, the priest is facing the East, or the tabernacle for the most part, or whatever.

00:12:13.660 And the people are sort of facing East with him.

00:12:15.600 But you said, trying to pretend to be at Calvary.

00:12:21.040 Because I think one piece of understanding that needs to be conveyed, first and foremost, is that what is the Mass?

00:12:26.760 The Mass is participation in the sacrifice of the cross, in the sacrifice of Calvary.

00:12:32.340 So, we're sort of mystically present at the crucifixion.

00:12:37.200 One of the best descriptions I've ever heard from my spiritual director about what to do with Mass is the same thing you do at Calvary.

00:12:45.880 You're there in front of our Lord being crucified for you, being offered up to the Eternal Father.

00:12:51.300 And what do you then do?

00:12:52.960 If you were there, if you were actually somehow transported in the time machine back there, you wouldn't understand a word.

00:12:59.500 They're speaking Latin, the soldiers are.

00:13:01.240 You're hearing Aramaic from, you know, some of the followers.

00:13:05.620 You're probably hearing some Hebrew.

00:13:07.720 Who knows what else?

00:13:08.700 Greek, for sure.

00:13:09.700 You'd be very confused, too.

00:13:12.000 Like, what is happening?

00:13:13.460 The leader of our movement is being crucified.

00:13:15.420 I have no idea what's going on.

00:13:17.600 So, you're just there and kind of bewildered.

00:13:21.340 And you know something superbly mysterious is going on.

00:13:25.880 Our ladies, they're under the cross watching this. 1.00

00:13:28.120 St. John is there and the Magdalene is there.

00:13:33.060 And that's basically it.

00:13:34.160 Everyone else has run away.

00:13:36.080 You know, you've got probably some in the crowd looking on, not wanting to be known as supporters.

00:13:41.640 It's unreal.

00:13:42.820 It's interesting because in Latin Mass, the priest is now facing away, sort of away from the people, but toward Christ with the people.

00:13:51.660 So, we're all with him looking at Jesus crucified, and then he is himself in persona Christi.

00:13:57.120 Give us a little bit of that before we move on to the next part.

00:14:01.620 That's one of the key features of Latin Mass.

00:14:03.520 Probably the thing that sticks out most to people when they go is the priest is not looking at you.

00:14:08.300 He's facing the altar.

00:14:09.520 The other thing they notice is a lot of it is in silence.

00:14:14.180 There's this music that's in a different language, or even prayers, different language.

00:14:19.240 The interesting thing is these are things that Vatican II itself didn't even want to throw out entirely.

00:14:26.160 They wanted slight modifications to.

00:14:27.880 I think seeing the priest, you know, facing the altar, you know, it's interesting.

00:14:33.000 Bishop Schneider, when we interviewed him, this is in our hours of footage speaking with him, he said that if all over the world, you could just have the priest at every Mass, including the new Masses, facing East, facing the Alt Orientum, facing the altar, that would solve most of the liturgical problems.

00:14:55.880 And Cardinal Ratzinger, Pope Benedict XVI, echoed that.

00:15:01.740 It's not about me.

00:15:04.300 It's not about trying to get me to stop talking to me.

00:15:07.920 I'm trying to pray.

00:15:10.260 Together, let's worship God.

00:15:14.180 Let's be directed towards him.

00:15:16.000 The unfortunate thing with turning the priest around and having everything out loud in your spoken language is that it becomes very flat and linear.

00:15:24.200 We're all kind of plodding along, saying the same prayers together.

00:15:28.380 I might be at a completely different place.

00:15:30.660 My four-year-old is definitely at a different place.

00:15:33.520 We're thinking about different things.

00:15:35.200 We're trying to enter into prayer.

00:15:37.040 Meditation is a dynamic experience.

00:15:39.480 So, the great thing about priests facing East and a lot of silence and a language you don't understand is that we can just worship God no matter where we're coming from.

00:15:52.240 Here's a transition point.

00:15:53.480 One of the things you also said was they're not against Vatican II.

00:15:57.340 In fact, the changes of the Mass, it could rightfully be said, don't actually have to do with the new Mass we have now.

00:16:05.000 What's the development of the new Mass?

00:16:06.520 How do we get there?

00:16:07.800 Who's the person behind it?

00:16:09.240 And what was behind his thoughts?

00:16:11.140 This is detailed in Episode 2 of Mass of the Ages.

00:16:14.420 And the key thing that we wanted to communicate in that episode was we don't even need to talk about Vatican II.

00:16:21.600 The traditional Catholic response to the new Mass and what happened after Vatican II shares the same premise.

00:16:29.840 Different people add different premises, but the main thing we're saying is something went wrong.

00:16:35.860 Something went wrong.

00:16:37.260 You can easily see this just by comparing the new Mass with the documents of Vatican II.

00:16:43.040 And not just the new Mass practiced by some crazy liturgical experimentation, but just the actual missal.

00:16:49.860 So, for example, in the documents that came shortly after Vatican II, the important thing to know is there was a committee, a concilium, whose job it was to implement Sacrosanctum Concilium.

00:17:03.700 So, the document of the liturgy at Vatican II, their job was to implement that document.

00:17:09.520 So, they released letters, you know, slowly implementing changes over the course of five or so years.

00:17:17.400 And Vatican II said, let there be no innovations unless the good of the church genuinely and certainly requires them.

00:17:24.140 And any changes need to grow out of things already existing.

00:17:28.500 So, you'd have to be able to look around the world and say, this is a good development.

00:17:33.120 Let's adopt this.

00:17:34.060 But very minor things.

00:17:35.700 Only if it's proven, it's going to be good.

00:17:38.500 But then you had the concilium, just whole hog, throwing out prayers, excising so many of the orations, the prayers in the Mass.

00:17:47.020 Saying, let's, it is preferential that the altar be built apart from the wall, including adapting current churches.

00:17:56.380 So, people ripping out altars was something that was commanded from the top down.

00:18:01.760 Instead of Latin being a small part, or the spoken language being a small part of the liturgy, Pope Paul VI said no longer Latin.

00:18:12.980 But the spoken language will be the principal language of the Mass.

00:18:16.100 So, what is a faithful Catholic to do?

00:18:19.100 We have Vatican II that says X, and we have the implementation of Vatican II, which did the opposite.

00:18:25.980 The traditional Catholic response is primarily something went wrong.

00:18:29.820 And this happened from the concilium led by Pope Paul VI.

00:18:33.980 That's where the problem lies.

00:18:35.820 So, the way forward is to look with honest eyes at what went wrong and pray for your church.

00:18:42.840 Don't leave the church.

00:18:43.840 And in the meantime, I say, go to Latin Mass, because there you find, this is the funny thing.

00:18:50.220 I think the Latin Mass is more like Sacra Sanctum Concilium than the New Mass.

00:18:57.200 Because Latin is to be retained. 0.94

00:19:00.000 Gregorian chant has pride of place.

00:19:02.040 You know, it describes liturgy as this solemn, beautiful sacrifice of the Blessed Trinity.

00:19:07.460 You have to suspend your disbelief at the New Mass to believe you're doing anything, you know, really important.

00:19:14.600 So, yeah, I think, funny enough, the Latin Mass is more like what Vatican II said than even the New Mass.

00:19:23.900 Your journey that's in the midst of this, you're a young man.

00:19:27.480 So, many people would think, oh, the Latin Mass is all about old people stuck to their old tradition.

00:19:34.260 They can't leave it.

00:19:35.300 And here, there's actually an overabundance of young people.

00:19:40.640 I'd like you just to tell us of your experiences going throughout the world, looking at Latin Masses.

00:19:46.120 Who is the audience?

00:19:47.380 The audience at Latin Mass is primarily young families.

00:19:51.260 Parishes that we visit, especially since COVID, have just been brimming with young people.

00:19:55.980 There's so many baptisms.

00:19:58.320 You just can't keep up with it.

00:19:59.640 The priests are, their schedules are packed with confessions and baptisms.

00:20:05.300 An interesting metric is to just look at baptisms versus funerals.

00:20:10.720 And you find that a lot of just generic parishes, they'll have a lot of funerals and few baptisms.

00:20:16.960 But it's the opposite at Latin Mass parishes.

00:20:19.640 A lot of young people are discovering the Latin Mass as something new and exciting,

00:20:25.420 not because it tries to speak their language or get on their level or be hip or whatever.

00:20:31.440 We hate it when dad tries to be hip, you know? 0.72

00:20:34.360 Just show us something beautiful and we'll flock to it.

00:20:39.040 And that's what young people are saying all over the world is we just love this thing.

00:20:42.760 We're not even into the politics, what's going on with the church.

00:20:45.140 We don't even understand what's going on in the church half the time.

00:20:48.500 But we know that this Mass is the Mass we want for our families.

00:20:55.420 Just a quick note before we return, if you would like to stay up to date on LifeSite's

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00:21:12.100 please consider making a one-time or monthly donation at give.lifesitenews.com.

00:21:17.520 And now, back to the video.

00:21:18.960 Who are the Latin Mass priests?

00:21:23.160 Are they these old guys? 1.00

00:21:24.920 Are they the young fellas?

00:21:26.380 And what's usually their disposition?

00:21:29.040 I haven't looked too much into the priests of the Latin Mass.

00:21:33.800 I can just say from personal experience that they're just, again, they're not the people

00:21:39.440 with the microphones and the cameras making a big fuss.

00:21:42.860 They're just praying a Mass.

00:21:45.380 And that's the big thing.

00:21:46.280 They go to Mass, and they celebrate the Latin Mass, and they're praying the Mass.

00:21:51.580 And the holier your priest is, the more devoted he is, the more meditative he is, the more

00:21:57.400 the faithful will be, too.

00:21:58.660 That trickles down.

00:21:59.580 It's like a father and his family.

00:22:01.180 So the kinds of priests you find at the Latin Mass are just concerned with giving God proper

00:22:06.500 worship.

00:22:07.100 And they're not concerned with having you tag along.

00:22:09.740 They don't care that you're tagging along.

00:22:13.480 They can't see you.

00:22:14.420 But yeah, I would say that the majority of Latin Mass priests are just in love with tradition.

00:22:21.780 And that affects us, too.

00:22:24.280 Because we want to be led by someone who is fighting for something, not someone who's trying

00:22:29.720 to make something interesting for us.

00:22:32.080 In the third episode of Mass of the Ages, you guys are pointing out the differences, I presume,

00:22:39.040 between the one Mass and the other.

00:22:41.300 You have this one brilliant thing I just caught on Twitter where you're showing the old Mass 0.81

00:22:46.440 and the prayers that were just excised from it in a really neat way of showing that.

00:22:52.580 What else are you showing in Episode 3?

00:22:54.660 And is this the end for you?

00:22:57.320 Actually, Episode 2 is all about the changes.

00:23:00.440 It'll blow your mind that the amount of things changed, how many things were changed, and how much

00:23:06.360 of those things are changed.

00:23:08.000 I think after watching Episode 2, you'll feel in your heart that something went wrong.

00:23:13.340 Now, Episode 3 is about, well, what do we do now?

00:23:16.980 So, we're going to explain to people, after the new Mass came out, how did the Latin Mass come

00:23:23.740 back into the fore?

00:23:26.360 How did it emerge through the likes of, you know, Marcel Lefebvre with the SSPX, the fraternity,

00:23:34.140 the Institute, the resistance, even at the very beginning, you had Indolts before Lefebvre.

00:23:40.580 And so, we're giving a bit of history.

00:23:42.700 Also, there's an interesting investigation into Traditiones Custodas itself, because there was a

00:23:49.220 survey sent out to the world's bishops that basically said, is Latin Mass good or bad?

00:23:55.500 And they filled out a survey and sent it in.

00:23:58.420 What's interesting is there's more to the story, because one little tip is, if you look actually

00:24:04.000 around the world at what bishops are doing, because actions speak louder than words, we want

00:24:08.920 to know what a bishop thinks about the Latin Mass.

00:24:11.240 What are they doing after Traditiones Custodas?

00:24:14.740 And the interesting thing is, 70% of them that have made public statements have no restrictions

00:24:21.800 at all.

00:24:22.500 So, they're just positive towards the Latin Mass.

00:24:25.640 So, it's interesting that Pope Francis felt the need to intervene.

00:24:29.840 He felt compelled to intervene, because the Latin Mass was such a big problem. 0.95

00:24:35.320 So, we're going to unpack that for everyone.

00:24:37.360 There's a lot of surprises in there.

00:24:38.840 But the main part of Episode 3, like I said before, is seeing the Latin Mass movement from

00:24:49.180 a fresh perspective.

00:24:51.560 It's not the people with the microphones who make the loudest noises.

00:24:55.460 It's the mothers who, this is one of our stories, who marched from France to Rome with a pile of 0.98

00:25:03.020 letters to deliver to Pope Francis, begging him to reverse Traditiones Custodas.

00:25:08.780 We have stories like that all over the world of the real traditional Catholics. 0.99

00:25:14.440 We think that this film, Episode 3, is actually going to be a catalyst for the Latin Mass movement

00:25:22.700 going forward.

00:25:23.340 We think it could be likely that bishops see this, Episode 3, and who were negative, or

00:25:30.100 they didn't quite understand Latin Mass, because every time they see someone online, he's angry

00:25:34.300 and complaining.

00:25:35.540 Once they see Episode 3, we think their hearts will be moved to protect Latin Mass in their

00:25:41.220 dioceses.

00:25:42.260 We can't, our future is not by resisting and complaining.

00:25:46.240 It's through inviting and showing the beauty.

00:25:52.600 You know, we're not going to convince Pope Francis to reverse Traditiones Custodas because

00:25:56.260 he's wrong, but we're going to surprise him.

00:26:00.560 These are the true faces of the traditional Latin Mass movement, and we think Episode 3 is

00:26:05.000 just going to be an inspiring banner that every traditional Catholic can get behind.

00:26:10.720 There is something really special about doing so in Africa.

00:26:14.680 I know you're in Africa.

00:26:17.760 Michael Hogan also films with you, and Michael just got back.

00:26:22.020 While he was there, I thought of something.

00:26:23.620 We have a lot of fans.

00:26:24.580 LifeSite News has a lot of fans in Africa.

00:26:26.200 In fact, we have a starting LifeSite News Africa sort of division, if you will, because

00:26:31.720 there's a lot of things going on in Africa.

00:26:34.780 The push of the West to force them into woke culture, if you will, is huge.

00:26:41.060 That's being done with all sorts of pressure.

00:26:43.040 But one of the things that is affecting them as well is the threat to remove the traditional

00:26:49.900 Latin Mass.

00:26:51.060 And you'd be so surprised.

00:26:52.640 And the numbers of very, very impoverished Africans who are totally devoted to Latin Mass. 1.00

00:27:01.040 It's amazing.

00:27:03.060 You can watch.

00:27:05.360 I've seen, because I've been sent the videos of LifeSite News fans over in Africa.

00:27:10.960 They're totally impoverished, but they're singing Latin hymns.

00:27:14.360 And these were older people who are still singing Latin hymns.

00:27:19.820 They don't speak English, but I can hear them singing Latin hymns.

00:27:24.840 Just a personal story on this.

00:27:27.220 My dad used to be a visa officer for Canada.

00:27:29.760 He was an immigration officer, if you will.

00:27:31.920 He knew six languages, so he's stationed all over the world accepting people into Canada.

00:27:38.340 And one of the things he told me is he always felt at home when he went to Mass because it

00:27:44.220 was in the common language that he knew.

00:27:46.340 It was the one time where everybody could be together in prayer.

00:27:53.800 And, of course, when that was removed, he felt it was quite alienating because all of

00:27:59.060 a sudden it switched to whatever the vernacular was, wherever he was in the world, and he was

00:28:04.660 no longer at home in a way.

00:28:06.740 But it was so moving for me to hear these older African ladies singing Latin hymns because 1.00

00:28:13.360 it was just a beautiful way to connect.

00:28:14.960 What did you see in Africa?

00:28:16.840 I just want to paint a picture.

00:28:18.260 So imagine you're at a traditional parish, and, you know, it can seat probably 800 people.

00:28:24.600 It's like a pretty sizable parish.

00:28:26.460 Well, there's a traditional ordination taking place, and they can't fit everyone in the church.

00:28:32.160 So they have to set up a tent outside so that 2,000 people can kneel in the dirt and witness,

00:28:40.240 you know, bugs everywhere and hay bales and stuff, but witness the traditional liturgy.

00:28:47.380 And then that takes a few hours.

00:28:49.920 Then they stay.

00:28:51.420 2,000 people stay afterwards for two or more hours just to have fellowship with each other,

00:28:59.020 to serve rice and beans out of huge barrels.

00:29:01.860 Like, they just love being Catholic, and they love what they find in the Latin Mass.

00:29:08.500 And this is a universal thing.

00:29:10.680 So the importance of going to Africa was to show it's not just a niche Western thing, but

00:29:17.100 it's universal.

00:29:18.600 This is why the liturgy developed like this and became universal for the church.

00:29:24.580 It's because it is ours.

00:29:26.480 It's our prayer to the Father.

00:29:30.440 It's our way of becoming part of the Trinity.

00:29:34.400 Well, to not be heretical, to become sons and daughters of God, and to participate in

00:29:40.360 the love that the Trinity has.

00:29:42.880 So, yeah, the liturgy is universal, and this is why it works in Minnesota.

00:29:49.420 It works in Africa.

00:29:50.700 It works in South Korea.

00:29:52.940 It works everywhere.

00:29:54.280 One of the things that's often quoted is, the devil hates Latin.

00:29:58.360 Have you heard anything about using Latin and why Latin?

00:30:02.440 Certainly, almost every one of our interviews talks about why Latin is such a good, a beautiful,

00:30:07.640 fitting language.

00:30:08.540 And actually, Pope John XXIII, who called Vatican II, had a document about why Latin is the language

00:30:16.000 of the church and why it needs to be protected.

00:30:18.400 And he listed a few reasons.

00:30:20.060 You know, it's universal.

00:30:21.460 It's not subject to change.

00:30:23.300 Latin has been the language of the church for a reason.

00:30:26.640 I mean, even when Latin was the spoken language, you know, in the fourth century, the Latin

00:30:33.060 that was used for the liturgy was a high Latin.

00:30:35.280 It would be like using a high English if we had an English liturgy.

00:30:39.080 It's kind of like the English liturgy, the Anglican liturgy.

00:30:45.340 It's like a high English.

00:30:47.300 So the Latin that was used in the liturgy, even from the beginning, was this high, beautiful,

00:30:53.820 like the best we can do.

00:30:55.360 That's the point of it.

00:30:56.240 It's like, this is the best we can do.

00:30:58.180 And Latin is just such a beautiful language.

00:30:59.980 Where do you go from here?

00:31:01.880 What are your next plans?

00:31:03.540 So episode three is actually the beginning for us.

00:31:08.020 So I want you guys to keep a couple things in mind.

00:31:11.120 So right now, this is a generous estimate.

00:31:15.320 Right now, 2% of practicing Catholics.

00:31:18.380 So just picture in your mind, okay, those in the pews, those who attend Mass every Sunday,

00:31:23.460 only 2% are attending Latin Mass.

00:31:27.380 There's problems of perception.

00:31:29.220 What is the Latin Mass?

00:31:30.320 There's problems of availability.

00:31:32.100 Where can I find one?

00:31:33.780 There's so many questions people have, so many hurdles people have.

00:31:37.400 But the other thing to keep in mind is that, like I said earlier, 70% of bishops are favorable

00:31:43.800 towards the Latin Mass based on their actions after Traditionis Custodis.

00:31:47.800 You can find this out at TraditionisCustodis.info.

00:31:52.040 It's not our website, but it's a helpful resource.

00:31:55.160 And you can see, yes, 70% of bishops have no restrictions on the Latin Mass, little to

00:32:01.340 no restrictions.

00:32:02.620 So what we see in front of us is an opportunity.

00:32:05.880 Only 2% of Catholics attending Latin Mass, but there's a bunch of green opportunity in

00:32:12.980 front of us where we have bishops, dioceses, diocesan priests who are open to learning

00:32:20.940 about it.

00:32:21.860 So what we're going to do is, this is our mission going forward, is episode three is

00:32:26.700 going to make a big splash.

00:32:28.040 It's going to move hearts.

00:32:29.720 But it's really the beginning, because what we're going to do is move the needle.

00:32:34.280 We're going to increase Latin Masses worldwide.

00:32:37.140 We're going to double it, and then we're going to triple it, and we're going to keep going.

00:32:40.440 We're going to train priests.

00:32:41.720 We're going to train servers.

00:32:43.540 We're going to train choirs.

00:32:44.880 We're going to provide the most beautiful resources you can find online about the Latin

00:32:49.120 Mass.

00:32:50.100 And our laser-focused goal is to increase Latin Masses worldwide.

00:32:53.940 So if you go to latinmass.com right now, it's just about our films.

00:32:59.680 But in the future, it's going to be the front porch of the Latin Mass community.

00:33:04.960 Anyone looking for it, anyone who wants to learn about it, we'll have everything there.

00:33:09.860 And so I'm so excited to build that and announce that here soon.

00:33:13.640 You already have a little kit for people, do you not, that you're already offering?

00:33:17.340 Right now, we have a kit that has some prayers in it, some books in it.

00:33:21.160 But what we're really imagining for the future is imagine if a priest, a picture of a diocesan

00:33:27.300 priest who's open to the Latin Mass, imagine if they could click a button and get everything

00:33:32.080 they need to offer the Latin Mass delivered to their door, Latin Mass in a box. 0.75

00:33:37.740 And it just breaks down every hurdle.

00:33:39.740 They don't need to go to a dozen different websites.

00:33:42.100 They don't need to look at really old, obscure videos on how to celebrate it.

00:33:46.200 We're really going to give them everything they need and to be trained to learn the Latin Mass

00:33:50.620 because there's so many dioceses that have no restrictions.

00:33:54.420 So 2% is a lot compared to the 80s.

00:33:59.160 But there's so much more, so much more room to grow.

00:34:03.060 And that's why we exist, to increase Latin Masses.

00:34:06.560 Are you ready to go underground if you have to?

00:34:08.520 Well, what do you mean by that?

00:34:09.980 Well, the restrictions are there.

00:34:12.100 And I think there are some in the upper echelons of the Church who are pretty firm in their

00:34:19.160 resolve to do the opposite of your mission, to stamp out the Latin Mass. 0.99

00:34:25.660 There is a palpable hatred for Latin.

00:34:28.600 There is a frustration with tradition.

00:34:33.200 And it goes hand-in-hand, by the way, with traditional moral teaching.

00:34:39.640 So there's a real move to change the Church in very fundamental ways.

00:34:47.080 And it's funny that they started with the traditional Latin Mass.

00:34:50.920 Because if you remember, one of the very first things that was done right out of the gate

00:34:54.940 with Pope Francis was to attack and basically shut down the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate.

00:35:00.300 They were number two on the list of orders or fraternities that looked after the Latin Mass.

00:35:08.520 After the Fraternity of St. Peter itself, the FFIs did most Latin Masses around the world.

00:35:15.900 And they were basically expunged from existence.

00:35:19.240 So there was a move on early on to attack the traditional Latin Mass.

00:35:23.820 And you've seen the move to attack traditional moral teaching of the Church.

00:35:29.220 We were just, LifeSite News was just at the Cardinals.

00:35:32.980 There was a Synod on Synodality meeting in Rome, as well as all of the Cardinals together

00:35:38.220 for the installation of the 20 new Cardinals, including the Cardinals from the United States

00:35:44.900 who were so controversial.

00:35:48.220 I won't say more about that now.

00:35:49.740 But so there's this move going on.

00:35:52.180 So there's a firm resolve to try and stamp out the Latin Mass, at least among some of them. 1.00

00:35:59.040 Should that get something of a foothold?

00:36:01.940 Do you have plans in place, sort of backup plans, if you will?

00:36:05.160 Yeah.

00:36:05.320 I'm very optimistic about the Fraternity of St. Peter, specifically because the Pope has expressly

00:36:13.460 written to them and met with them saying, you keep doing what you're doing.

00:36:18.900 Now, the Fraternity of St. Peter, it doesn't, isn't doing all the great work out there.

00:36:24.160 So there's a lot of suffering and a lot of damage control that needs to be done.

00:36:28.180 If I'm optimistic about the Fraternity, let's say the Fraternity itself is shut down, well,

00:36:34.260 then I'll move.

00:36:36.640 We'll pack up our bags and move to where we can find the Latin Mass. 1.00

00:36:40.900 Now, what do you do if the Latin Mass is banned everywhere?

00:36:46.080 So that's just an interesting thought experiment, if it can even be banned everywhere.

00:36:51.160 At that point, I don't know.

00:36:52.580 So I'd have to consult my spiritual director, pray, because there would come a point, it

00:37:00.940 would seem, where the liturgy, if the Latin Mass is banned and the liturgy continues to

00:37:08.380 go off in the wrong direction, there would come a point where Sunday Mass violates the

00:37:15.420 faith I'm passing on to my family.

00:37:17.320 Um, so if that's the case, then there would, I'm not giving advice to anyone else out there.

00:37:25.180 I'm just saying for myself, I would strongly consider just finding, um, an illicit Latin 1.00

00:37:32.040 Mass that is obviously valid and, and that, but that does not war against the faith I'm

00:37:40.460 trying to instill in my family.

00:37:41.900 The things I just mentioned, like, that's a lot of things that would have to happen for

00:37:45.800 me to quote unquote, go underground, but, um, I'm very optimistic about the future of

00:37:50.640 the church.

00:37:51.080 I think it's no accident that the Lord has called us here right now to tell the world

00:37:56.840 about the Latin Mass, to build Latin Mass communities because, um, Pope Francis, um, isn't, you know,

00:38:05.120 the future of the church in the sense that he's not going to be around forever.

00:38:08.660 Whoever comes after him is not going to be around forever.

00:38:11.040 The Latin Mass will survive, and I'm just optimistic that the church, though it's going 1.00

00:38:19.400 through a confusing time, will protect and pass on the traditional liturgy.

00:38:25.060 And so in the meantime, what am I doing tomorrow?

00:38:28.420 I'm praying traditional prayers going to the Latin Mass, and, um, that's where we all have

00:38:34.620 to look.

00:38:35.040 Don't get too concerned with, uh, what happens, you know, tomorrow, I'll look at today.

00:38:41.020 Absolutely.

00:38:41.900 It is, after all, the mass of the ages.

00:38:45.420 Thank you so much, Cameron, for being with us.

00:38:47.580 Thanks, John Henry.

00:38:48.380 It was a pleasure.

00:38:49.500 I appreciate it.

00:38:50.420 And God bless all of you, and we'll see you next time.

00:39:05.040 So check out our links in the description to read more, sign up for our newsletter, and

00:39:09.880 connect with us on social media so that you can stay up to date with all of the latest

00:39:14.660 life, family, and culture news.

00:39:16.760 Thanks for watching, and may God bless you.

The John-Henry Westen Show - August 31, 2022

'Mass of the Ages' trilogy aims to show Francis who traditional Catholics really are

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