The John-Henry Westen Show - May 20, 2021


Mississippi abortion case could see Roe v. Wade overturned

Topics
Roe V. Wade overturning
Hosted by
John-Henry Westen
Mentioned
Amy Coney Barrett Claire Chrétien Rebecca Kiesling Claire Kretia Donald Trump John Roberts Ruth Bader Ginsburg Brett Kavanaugh Justice Breyer Neil Gorsuch Sotomayor Melissa Kennedy Hallie Thomas Parler Kagan Alito
Heroic Nigerian priest shines light on religious persecution from Boko Haram Pastor Artur Pawlowski arrested for refusing to shut church tells all

Episode Stats


Length

20 minutes

Words per minute

162.18

Word count

3,365

Sentence count

210

Harmful content

Misogyny

9

sentences flagged

Hate speech

3

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Abortion supporters and the leftist media are blowing a gasket over a new case that the Supreme Court has accepted about abortion in Mississippi. But why is the left going absolutely mad about this right now, talking like it s the end of the world? You re going to want to stay tuned for this episode of the John Henry Weston Show with our own Claire Kretia to talk about what s going on.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.500 Abortion supporters and the leftist media are blowing a gasket over a new case that the Supreme Court has accepted.
00:00:08.240 It's about abortion in Mississippi, but why is the left going absolutely mad about this right now, talking like it's the end of the world?
00:00:17.360 You're going to want to stay tuned for this episode of the John Henry Weston Show, where we have our own Claire Kretia in D.C. to talk about what is going on. 0.86
00:00:30.000 And Claire Kretia, welcome to the program.
00:00:46.600 Thanks, John Henry. Thanks for having me on your show.
00:00:48.860 So tell us what's going on. I mean, we hear of Supreme Court's taking up abortion decisions very often.
00:00:55.560 You know, this has been in and out for years now in the U.S.
00:00:57.640 What's so special about this Mississippi case with the Supreme Court accepting it now?
00:01:03.380 What sets this case apart from other cases over the past decade or so is that this case is actually about prohibiting, not just regulating abortion.
00:01:12.480 So the cases that have been before the Supreme Court in the past, you know, five or 10 years have basically been about things like, should we make abortion facility hallways longer and wider so that a gurney can fit down them?
00:01:28.800 Is it OK for the state to say that abortionists need to have admitting privileges at a local hospital? 0.98
00:01:34.860 But this case is about an actual prohibition on abortion after 15 weeks of pregnancy.
00:01:43.220 So Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court decision that in 1973, along with its sister case, Doe v. Bolton, imposed abortion on demand across America.
00:01:52.860 Roe v. Wade said that any pre-viability abortion, which at that time was around 28 weeks, is completely allowed.
00:02:03.000 And after a baby is viable, after a baby can live outside the womb with medical attention, you can still have an abortion for the health of the mother.
00:02:10.980 And of course, health is interpreted very broadly.
00:02:13.100 So that can mean emotional health or financial health.
00:02:16.240 But this case, if the Supreme – by taking this case, the Supreme Court has a chance to either modify, uphold, or completely strike down Roe v. Wade.
00:02:26.440 And so if they – there are a number of different outcomes that could come from this.
00:02:30.860 Obviously, the worst would just be if they uphold Roe and further sort of solidify this fake constitutional right to abortion. 0.86
00:02:36.760 But they could also say that actually we know that an unborn child in the womb is a whole distinct living human being.
00:02:46.220 Science shows this to us.
00:02:47.520 We have way better technology than we did in 1973.
00:02:51.040 These are human beings who, under the 14th Amendment, have the right to equal justice under the law and the right to due process.
00:03:00.880 And they're being denied that when they're killed through abortion.
00:03:03.340 This case really is just a direct challenge to Roe v. Wade.
00:03:07.500 And instead of just sort of chipping away at the fake right to abortion, this case is actually challenging whether there even is a right to basically an abortion at any time during pregnancy.
00:03:20.020 Okay.
00:03:20.460 So already – I mean, this is huge.
00:03:22.980 And already the left is freaking out.
00:03:26.100 We watched as abortion leaders and the leftist media just went absolutely haywire.
00:03:30.640 Here's the deal.
00:03:33.360 The justices have agreed to take up a major abortion case next term that could test the limits of Roe v. Wade.
00:03:41.080 It is really the court's first big move to try to reconsider abortion rights.
00:03:44.200 Well, the stakes could not be any higher, Hallie.
00:03:46.840 Again, this is a changed court.
00:03:48.680 And throughout the country over the last couple of years, as Donald Trump has added new appointees to the Supreme Court bench, there have been more and more aggressive laws seeking to restrict the right to choose an abortion.
00:04:00.560 And many of them have been challenged to the Supreme Court as a bid to overturn and completely dismantle Roe v. Wade.
00:04:07.280 And this is one of those challenges, and it is the one that the court has decided to take up.
00:04:12.100 So on the court's docket going into the next term will be this very fraught question of whether these continued protections for reproductive rights will be allowed to continue for women or whether they will be rolled back.
00:04:23.860 Melissa, fair to say that this is considered a fact that the court is taking this up at all could be considered a boost, if you will, to opponents of abortion?
00:04:30.820 Oh, it is certainly a boost.
00:04:33.260 I mean, this is exactly what the anti-choice movement has been seeking for the last few years.
00:04:39.100 And again, much of this is because of the changed composition of the court.
00:04:43.720 It's not just that Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who was a stalwart supporter of reproductive rights, has been replaced by Amy Coney Barrett.
00:04:50.620 But the fact that there have actually been three new clear people who are skeptical of abortion rights who have been added to the court, Brett Kavanaugh, Justice Neil Gorsuch, and now, of course, Amy Coney Barrett.
00:05:00.820 So what did you think of that, Claire?
00:05:04.300 Well, as you can see, John Henry, they are terrified.
00:05:07.380 The panic is very real.
00:05:08.780 And if you just look at some of the statements coming out from pro-abortion groups, if you look at the clip that we just saw, the abortion lobby is really scared.
00:05:17.560 And it's so interesting that this is happening right now because in so many ways, American culture has become even more degenerate than it has been in past years.
00:05:26.440 We've got the transgenderism issue. 0.84
00:05:28.520 We've got so much cultural decay.
00:05:32.600 But at the same time, we've been able to pass these amazing state pro-life laws like heartbeat bills or, in this case, the Mississippi 15-week abortion ban.
00:05:40.960 And in spite of all the cultural decay, this case has made it up to the Supreme Court.
00:05:45.660 And so, I mean, if Roe is overturned or in any way significantly gutted, the left will riot in the streets.
00:05:53.400 It will not be pretty.
00:05:55.960 Interestingly, NARAL, in their statement about the Supreme Court taking this case, claimed that trans and non-binary people would be impacted the most of all by this, which I'm not quite sure how that works.
00:06:08.160 But it just shows that the abortion movement is desperate to grasp onto other cultural issues because they know that abortion is a losing issue for them and that they're on their last legs.
00:06:23.840 Right. So let's spell this out.
00:06:26.640 The best scenario is the striking down of Roe v. Wade.
00:06:31.360 What would happen in that scenario?
00:06:33.400 That the court completely upholds the 15-week Mississippi abortion ban and says it's completely right for the state to be able to have this 15-week abortion ban.
00:06:44.500 And the court says no law allowing the killing of an unborn human being is ever constitutional or acceptable in our society.
00:06:55.860 And all laws allowing abortion are unconstitutional regardless of whether that – whether it's abortion on a 6-week-old baby or a 12-week-old or 15-week or 20-week, whatever.
00:07:08.720 And then – and say, you know, Roe is completely wrongly decided, Mississippi is in fact allowed to ban abortions at 15 weeks, and actually any states that have really radical abortion laws, those laws are unconstitutional because they deny unborn children equal protection and due process under the law, which they're entitled to by the 14th Amendment because they're American citizens or human beings.
00:07:35.080 That's not going to happen.
00:07:36.180 But – but what –
00:07:38.540 Yeah, yeah, it's – that's like a really, really best case scenario.
00:07:43.460 And I think that's – the chances of that are not high.
00:07:48.560 Okay, we've – look, look, John Henry, we've got Justices Breyer, Kagan, and Sotomayor.
00:07:54.560 We know that they're solidly on the left.
00:07:56.660 We know they're going to side with abortion.
00:07:58.160 Roberts is almost certainly to also side with them, okay?
00:08:01.200 That leaves us with Alito and Thomas, who we know are going to side on – side with life.
00:08:08.240 And then the three Trump nominees, Kavanaugh, Gorsuch, and Amy Coney Barrett.
00:08:13.440 I think Kavanaugh is going to be the swing vote here.
00:08:16.160 Barrett and Gorsuch are probably pretty likely to side with life, just given their records.
00:08:22.380 But Kavanaugh has kind of become the new John Roberts or the new Kennedy on the court.
00:08:27.900 And I think that he – the liberal justices are really going to be trying to sway him.
00:08:32.340 And which way Kavanaugh goes will be really telling.
00:08:35.160 And this is kind of a test for all of Trump's Supreme Court justices, right?
00:08:39.720 This is their true test.
00:08:41.380 Trump said he would appoint pro-life justices.
00:08:43.140 Okay, let's see it.
00:08:45.200 And I just hope everyone watching can just pray for these justices, that they make the right decision,
00:08:50.320 that they uphold the dignity of these human beings, that they say there is no right in American law to kill an unborn child.
00:08:59.060 Yeah, I think it's hugely important to pray for them because in doing that, you're praying for America right now.
00:09:04.000 You're also praying for their very souls because this kind of a decision really impinges upon them personally in a very real way.
00:09:11.560 What are some of the other possibilities?
00:09:14.600 You mentioned a whole bunch of possibilities that could happen there.
00:09:17.980 What do you think is the most realistic possibility in terms of the outcome of this decision?
00:09:25.480 First of all, we should lay out that this isn't going to get decided tomorrow or anytime, even within the next year.
00:09:31.440 Tell us first about that.
00:09:32.660 Where is this at?
00:09:33.940 When is this going to take place?
00:09:35.060 So the Supreme Court will hear this case in their next term, which will be in the fall, most likely.
00:09:41.560 Or in early 2022.
00:09:44.320 So they'll hear it sometime in anywhere from, I don't know, five to ten months from now.
00:09:51.160 And the Supreme Court usually releases their most controversial decisions late in the term, in June.
00:09:58.100 Okay, that's when we get, that's when we've gotten abortion-related decisions in the past.
00:10:02.700 That's when we got Obergefell.
00:10:03.800 So it's very likely that we will learn the outcome of this case in June 2022.
00:10:09.320 So just over a year from now.
00:10:11.660 And of course, when the oral arguments are heard, which I don't think a date has been set yet, whenever those oral arguments are heard, they will be very closely analyzed, you know, not only by LifeSite, but also by all court observers.
00:10:24.140 Because this is such an important case and such a controversial hot-button issue, if you will.
00:10:28.740 Another scenario, which is perhaps more likely, is still a good-ish scenario, that would be the court says, the court upholds Mississippi's 15-week abortion ban and says states can enact abortion bans before so-called viability.
00:10:49.920 And so we're going to allow this Mississippi law to be upheld and to stay as the law, and states may enact abortion prohibitions, not just restrictions, not just, you know, you have to have a 48-hour waiting period, but actual prohibitions.
00:11:07.020 You cannot kill a baby after this time.
00:11:08.660 Likely in this scenario, they would still sort of uphold this very general right to abortion in the Constitution, but still, but that right would be much more limited than it is now.
00:11:21.260 And then a worst-case scenario would simply be that they say this law is unconstitutional, and that would, you know, set the pro-life movement back, surely, because it would allow abortion on demand to essentially continue in the U.S.
00:11:38.740 And it's important that the court is, a lot of times when the court takes these cases, they can actually decide that they're only going to hear one really technical aspect of the law, and that's not really what's happening here.
00:11:51.240 So they have, they will have to rule, is this 15-week ban allowed to remain in place in Mississippi?
00:11:59.140 I think, though, one of the most important takeaways, particularly for us, for our readership, is it's time to brush up on your pro-life apologetics, because this is finally going to enter the mainstream discussion in a big way.
00:12:15.320 We're going to be pushing that at LifeSite, but it's going to be pushed through the mainstream media, so we really need to be on top of our arguments in favor of life.
00:12:23.720 And we also, John Henry, need to not be timid, and we need to go on the offense, okay?
00:12:29.980 We need to start talking about how we want to ban all abortions.
00:12:33.260 I support any limits on abortion, okay? 0.84
00:12:35.900 I support a late-term abortion ban.
00:12:37.420 I support the heartbeat bill.
00:12:38.520 I support a 15-week abortion ban. 0.66
00:12:40.260 But this is an opportunity for the court to actually fundamentally change the landscape of abortion in America and say that there are going to be severe limits and severe prohibitions on it.
00:12:52.900 So I don't think we need to be focusing our talking points only on late-term abortion.
00:12:57.120 This isn't really about late-term abortion.
00:12:58.700 It's about 15-week abortions. 0.96
00:13:00.540 That's, you know, beginning of second-trimester abortions. 0.99
00:13:03.940 And there's nothing wrong with saying we want to end all abortions, because every single abortion, no matter how young the child is, ends the life of a whole distinct living human being with its own unique DNA, his own fingerprints.
00:13:18.080 And this is a point that I think we really need to hammer home.
00:13:22.600 And we can't just shy away from this.
00:13:24.540 This is about, do we want, as a country, do we want abortion to be legal?
00:13:28.620 What is abortion? 1.00
00:13:29.400 What does an abortion do? 1.00
00:13:30.380 Well, an abortion, unfortunately, in addition to hurting the mother, an abortion kills a whole distinct living human being. 0.80
00:13:37.340 Yeah, I think that's a really important point, Claire, because I think there is a difficulty with this particular piece of legislation, because it's not what it should be.
00:13:47.640 It's not all abortions are wrong.
00:13:49.900 I think for real pro-life activists, the easiest argument to make, the only one that makes any real sense, is a baby is a baby is a baby.
00:13:57.200 From conception to natural death, we have to protect people, and therefore, this arguing for a 15-week ban makes much less sense.
00:14:07.240 In fact, it somehow goes against the grain, at least for pro-lifers.
00:14:10.620 It's probably an easier argument to make, for sure, for the general public.
00:14:14.660 But nonetheless, I love what you said about being totally free to argue the full enchilada, to argue what only makes sense, the protection of life from conception.
00:14:24.420 Our messaging around this can be a little bit jumbled because of this very issue.
00:14:31.140 The 15-week ban was enough to challenge Roe, right?
00:14:35.380 Because Roe says that you cannot limit abortions pre-viability.
00:14:41.760 And so at least we got a ban that was based on a time limit in pregnancy that was before so-called viability.
00:14:53.700 Absolutely.
00:14:54.420 But I think here the role of the pro-life movement will be to, as you said, give our best arguments to this, using the fact that this is going to be in the media now for about a year, over a year, and use that at every opportunity to defend life.
00:15:12.940 We have a great opportunity here.
00:15:15.500 And it's also a challenge, a challenge for those who are pro-life, to bone up on their arguments, to be ready to defend the truth on life with all of their, you know, with all of their neighbors.
00:15:28.760 And not to be afraid, to really embrace this opportunity.
00:15:32.220 We need to be able to talk about the hard issues, too.
00:15:34.760 You know, talk about abortion and cases of rape and these terrible tragedies, but that these tragedies are not fixed by abortion.
00:15:43.120 Abortion only makes problems worse.
00:15:45.220 And that every child, even a child with severe disability, is still a human being, and a human being worthy and deserving of protection.
00:15:56.560 Now, the Mississippi law has an exception for babies with severe abnormalities, I think.
00:16:03.220 Some sort of, there's some sort of limited exception in the Mississippi law.
00:16:09.000 So it will be really interesting to see how the Supreme Court handles that.
00:16:12.800 Well, Claire, thank you for that.
00:16:14.260 I want to just plug one resource for those hard questions, because that always comes up, the very first question always, when you're talking about abortion and trying to defend life.
00:16:22.420 It says, what about rape and incest?
00:16:23.600 It's almost a sine qua non of the argument.
00:16:26.840 So I would encourage people to, LifeSite is full of argumentation on that.
00:16:30.560 But check out Save the One, Rebecca Kiesling, was conceived herself. 1.00
00:16:35.160 She was conceived in rape.
00:16:36.740 And she is a beautiful lawyer for and a defender of the right to life for the unborn, and particularly those children conceived in those very difficult circumstances.
00:16:49.460 Yes, Rebecca Kiesling is wonderful.
00:16:51.180 That's an amazing organization.
00:16:53.300 And we have a lot of information about this, too, on our resource tab, Life Facts.
00:16:59.860 So you can go to that and see all the facts about abortion, how an abortion is done, what it does to the baby's body, and learn more about apologetics there, too.
00:17:10.040 And, of course, John Henry, as you know, we're reporting every day on some of the work that other pro-life organizations do, you know, different apologetics groups.
00:17:17.600 So there's so much on LifeSite that our readers can use to educate themselves.
00:17:22.640 Amen.
00:17:23.440 Claire Chrétien, thank you for being with us on this episode of the John Henry Weston Show.
00:17:27.560 Thanks, John Henry.
00:17:28.300 God bless you, and God bless all of you.
00:17:30.940 We'll see you next time.
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