The John-Henry Westen Show - December 15, 2022


New Book Changing Lives for Married Couples with Infertility

Topics
compassion in infertility struggles church and IVF infertility endometriosis treatments mourning infertility
Hosted by
John-Henry Westen
Mentioned
Marie Meany Mother Teresa Hilger John Paul II Chiara Corbella John Henry Emmaus Edith Stein Advent Hilsch Simon
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Episode Stats


Length

31 minutes

Words per minute

179.8

Word count

5,614

Sentence count

373

Harmful content

Misogyny

7

sentences flagged

Hate speech

8

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, Dr. Marie Meany joins us to talk about her experience with infertility and her new book, "When Expecting Doesn't Happen: Turning Infertility into a Journey of Hope." She shares her story of infertility and how she turned it into a journey of hope.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
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00:02:00.040 We're turning the child into a commodity, and the child is always a gift.
00:02:16.940 And the difficulty about a gift is that we cannot force it.
00:02:20.260 And it's terribly hard to understand, you know, why sometimes this is not working out.
00:02:24.020 But we're not doing anybody any favor by sort of forcing it and thereby actually sinning against, grievously against the child.
00:02:35.620 Even then, you know, once the child is there, you know, of course, we should love it.
00:02:39.360 And I'm sure that lots of IVF parents are wonderful parents, you know, leaving aside the nature of the conception.
00:02:44.540 I think the real kind of medical method that should help them is one that helps them have a child naturally, not replace them, which is what IVF is doing.
00:02:57.780 There has been an explosion of infertility of late, and that trend looks like it's going to continue.
00:03:04.100 You ever wonder what you're supposed to say with two people experiencing infertility or what you can do if you are?
00:03:09.920 Well, we've got an expert with us, someone who both has experienced infertility for some nine years of her marriage.
00:03:16.260 And she's now got a child, but she's a doctor of philosophy as well.
00:03:20.540 She's just released a book.
00:03:21.780 It's called When Expecting Doesn't Happen, Turning Infertility into a Journey of Hope.
00:03:27.540 This is The John Henry Weston Show.
00:03:29.360 Stay tuned.
00:03:39.920 Dr. Marie Meany, welcome to the program.
00:04:01.700 Thank you.
00:04:02.480 So good to be here with you, John Henry.
00:04:05.000 Let's begin, as we always do, with the sign of the cross.
00:04:06.760 In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
00:04:12.160 Amen.
00:04:14.180 So, Marie, I've actually known you for many, many years, but it's been many years since we've been able to speak.
00:04:21.600 You've now written this book on infertility.
00:04:25.060 Tell us, what led you to write this book, and what motivated you to bring it out right now?
00:04:34.020 You know, we suffered from infertility for many years.
00:04:36.100 Once we got married, we weren't expecting any problems, and it hit us as a big surprise that it was difficult.
00:04:43.100 And it also surprised me at how painful it was.
00:04:46.920 You know, I didn't expect it to be so heart-wrenching.
00:04:49.580 Now, not everybody experiences it as badly as that.
00:04:52.280 There are basically three groups of people, though, those who don't mind at all, those for whom it's, you know, it's a suffering, it's a burden.
00:04:58.080 And those who are absolutely crushed by it, and I was one of them.
00:05:00.700 And I know a lot of other people who are also crushed by this thing.
00:05:03.460 So it's nothing unusual.
00:05:05.580 And though my husband and I always accepted the teaching of the church and found it, you know, very helpful, I felt that there's nothing to help me just go getting day by day by day through this with not knowing whether we'd ever have children.
00:05:18.560 And I thought I wanted to write something for couples to help them, give them a sense that what they're going through is not unusual, and they're not going crazy, that this is really difficult.
00:05:31.800 Also avoid the kind of dead ends that I ended up in while trying to do the best thing, of course, and also helping friends and family, because often those surrounding the couple suffering from infertility don't know what to do or say and end up doing and saying exactly the wrong thing.
00:05:48.300 So I made one chapter in that book is addressed to them, and we'll hopefully help them navigate these difficult waters.
00:05:56.340 Definitely. And I think, especially since we hear the numbers of people experiencing infertility is going up, we want to be ready for this, because this is happening.
00:06:06.620 A lot of people are already in the situation.
00:06:09.080 And maybe we can start with, what do you say?
00:06:12.620 Because that's a great challenge.
00:06:15.140 And I know oftentimes people trying to be helpful can say some things that are nonetheless very hurtful.
00:06:21.820 So what to say and do as a friend or family member is what you're asking.
00:06:26.720 Well, first of all, don't feel that you have to bring up the topic.
00:06:30.620 Actually, do not bring up the topic.
00:06:33.020 At most, you can say, if you're close, you know, I just want to tell you that I'm here for you, if ever you want to talk about it.
00:06:39.760 And don't get any further than that.
00:06:41.320 Even if you have up your sleeve some great medical method, or you think you just have the right word for that person, better not to say anything.
00:06:48.840 It's so painful.
00:06:49.500 So many people are already talking to one about it, and one just wants a little bit of peace and quiet.
00:06:55.020 The other thing is, once you get into a discussion, if the couple or one of the spouses opens up to you, don't feel like you have to fix it, because you can't.
00:07:06.140 Of course, you'd love to, you'd want to help the other person.
00:07:08.540 You'd love to get them from the cross, and in all likelihood, nothing that you will say will do that.
00:07:14.800 There is probably no easy fix, medically speaking, and you can't just sort of say something that will make the couple sort of skip and dance away and say everything is fine.
00:07:24.740 So, and finally, in terms of another big no is don't be curious for the reasons of infertility.
00:07:31.620 It just feels very yucky to have people approach you and wanting to figure out, is it you, is it your husband, is it, you know, what's going on.
00:07:40.060 And, I mean, as a fourth note, at the same time, don't feel like you have to walk on eggshells, which is more easily said than done.
00:07:47.300 But the main thing is that that can carry you through this is a key term, and that is compassion.
00:07:53.440 Compassion, which comes from patty to suffer, and this is suffering with.
00:07:58.520 So what you can, can you do when people are suffering tremendously, that is valid for all kinds of suffering, is being under the cross with them, like the Blessed Mother and St. John.
00:08:07.280 And that means not being able to do much, but just being there.
00:08:10.820 And you know what, being there and not trying to fix it is tremendous, because it means you can let go, you can confine, you feel the warmth of love, you feel you can just unburden yourself.
00:08:22.180 And somebody else is just there to say, you know, I am so sorry.
00:08:25.860 I am so sorry you are going through this.
00:08:28.280 And we know from the book of Job that his friends are doing the wrong thing when they come and basically tell him why he is suffering.
00:08:34.900 You know, that's another thing, after a while, you know, the couple just doesn't seem to be moving on, and why is this taking so long, and such and such is going through much worse suffering, so why aren't you?
00:08:43.960 Well, this is less than helpful.
00:08:45.080 You know, everybody has their own pace, everybody has their journey, God has his plan, and perhaps this couple is just taking a very long time, and perhaps until the rest of their lives.
00:08:53.440 I hope not, but that might be, and it's not for me to determine when they should be at this new spot where it will be easier.
00:08:59.220 So I'm not there to tell them why they're suffering infertility.
00:09:02.140 I'm there to be a Simon of Serenity to them and help them carry this cross.
00:09:07.560 And if I do that, I will have done a real, true work of mercy and help them along.
00:09:13.140 And that's interesting to hear.
00:09:14.940 A lot of people think, and I think it's particularly true of men, just being there, I'm not doing anything.
00:09:24.840 I'm just there.
00:09:26.160 Yeah, I know, it's really hard.
00:09:29.160 And that's also what's part of the struggle of the couple, that the woman and the man are dealing with the suffering very differently.
00:09:36.920 And if you don't pay attention, then on top of this big suffering, you have a marriage crisis on your hands, which is the last thing you want.
00:09:43.160 But I think it's very important for the couple to work through it, to talk through it, and to realize that the other is processing things very differently.
00:09:51.280 So for the husband, I'd say it's very important for him to realize, you know, I can't do anything.
00:09:55.920 This is tremendously frustrating for me.
00:09:57.560 But by listening, by allowing my wife to cry on my shoulder, I am really helping her.
00:10:02.500 And it may seem that we're going over the same ground again and again.
00:10:05.040 But if that's what she needs, and if I can take it, I mean, you know, everybody needs a break, maybe you can take it, then you're doing a tremendous job towards your wife.
00:10:11.980 This is just wonderful.
00:10:13.140 And as a wife, I'd say, you know, be aware of how difficult this is for your husband.
00:10:17.020 He would love to fix it.
00:10:18.100 He can't.
00:10:19.320 And he may be suffering just as much as you are, but he's not able to express it.
00:10:22.520 And perhaps he doesn't even want to talk about it, which is okay, too.
00:10:25.380 You know, respect his wish, but show him that if he wants to talk about it, if he wants to cry on your shoulder, then that's fine, too.
00:10:32.240 And, you know, tell to the other what you need.
00:10:34.660 So often it's so helpful to have your spouse come along with you to the doctor's appointments, you know, sitting in the waiting room with all these other women who are heavily pregnant, and you're not, and you're getting another bit of bad news of why this is not working out.
00:10:46.300 Well, you know, tremendous thing for the husband to be there and help us through this.
00:10:50.380 Or if the doctor is pushing IVF on you, and you're already in a very weak position emotionally, then having your husband there as your protector is tremendous.
00:11:00.560 So there's a lot that can be done.
00:11:02.740 And if you feel that you're going into crisis mode, you know, go and see a good priest, go and see a Christian counselor, don't let this become a major crisis.
00:11:12.060 Just a quick note before we return.
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00:11:36.760 And now, back to the video.
00:11:40.800 So you mentioned IVF, and I think most of the world thinks this is the panacea solution for any infertility problem.
00:11:50.320 Tell us about IVF.
00:11:52.120 Why do you say that you shouldn't use it?
00:11:55.660 Yeah, it's so sad, John, isn't it?
00:11:57.540 Because that is offered to couples as the only solution almost.
00:12:02.760 You know, oh, you've got a problem?
00:12:03.760 Well, let's just do IVF, and you'll have a baby. 1.00
00:12:05.300 Well, first of all, that's not true.
00:12:07.780 Though things are better now than they were, let's say, 10, 20 years ago in terms of the technology, you still only have a 36% rate.
00:12:15.180 So about one-third of a chance to have a baby in your arms after having gone through a grueling process.
00:12:20.140 You know, even people who are fine with it, otherwise, ethically, nobody says this is like a walk in the park.
00:12:27.480 It's really, it's terrible for the woman, for the hormones that she needs to take, the retrieval of the eggs, for the husband to masturbate in the room, probably watching porn, which, you know, in itself is so, goes so much against his dignity, his marriage, the child they're trying to conceive.
00:12:42.980 And then ultimately also for the child, you know, what a terrible thing to be conceived in a lab.
00:12:49.840 And if you read the witnesses of adults who were conceived as children in this situation, they say how painful it is for them to think that they were conceived in a lab and that their fate was decided by technicians.
00:13:03.680 You know, what a difference to being conceived in the loving and hopefully loving embrace of your parents.
00:13:08.100 You know, safely nestled in the womb of your mother from the beginning, rather than having technicians then decide, well, this one looks good.
00:13:15.360 I guess we'll let that one survive.
00:13:16.460 This one we're going to discard doesn't look good.
00:13:18.040 These were going to freeze.
00:13:19.700 No wonder that many of them are experiencing survivor's guilt, because why were they chosen and not their siblings?
00:13:25.600 You know, they must prove themselves or they just throw up their arms in despair and go into depression.
00:13:30.500 Things is just too heavy of a burden to bear.
00:13:32.660 So this is just sort of the giving just a little taste of what is associated with all of us.
00:13:39.000 But, you know, why is the church against this?
00:13:43.580 Well, as I was trying already to point out, it goes against the dignity of the child and of the couple and of their marriage.
00:13:50.680 And, you know, we are so sensitive today about what a child needs.
00:13:54.600 We sing to our children in the womb.
00:13:56.400 We make sure that we're not undergoing any shock, any trauma, because we know how sensitive the child is.
00:14:01.640 And somehow its conception is not relevant.
00:14:06.200 We're turning the child into a commodity and the child is always a gift.
00:14:09.820 And the difficulty about a gift is that we cannot force it.
00:14:13.560 And it's terribly hard to understand, you know, why sometimes this is not working out.
00:14:18.500 But we're not doing anybody any favor by sort of forcing it and and thereby actually sinning against grievously against the child.
00:14:27.920 Even then, you know, once the child is there, you know, of course, we should love it.
00:14:32.400 And I'm sure that lots of IVF parents are wonderful parents, you know, leaving aside the nature of the conception.
00:14:37.800 I think the real kind of medical method that should help them is one that helps them have a child naturally, not replace them, which is what IVF is doing.
00:14:49.640 They're just, you know, producing the child on the side and implanting it with the woman and hoping it's going to stick. 0.84
00:14:53.980 That's, you know, everybody, I think even those who go for IVF, sorry, would much rather just have a child the natural way.
00:15:00.760 And there are other methods, like I think by now well-known Dr. Hilsch's with his great method, NAPR technology, who has a much higher success rate than IVF and who tries to heal the couple.
00:15:12.560 So I think, you know, the church is wrongly interpreted as putting burdens on us just for the heck of making our lives harder.
00:15:21.860 On the contrary, it's trying to show us the laws of life, the path of life, and turning a child into a commodity, using another person in that way is just against that person's dignity and leaves to ruin us wounds.
00:15:37.480 I was very struck once when I read another testimony by an IVF-conceived, now adult, who said, you know, my mother was not willing to carry the suffering, and she's now passed it on to me.
00:15:53.860 And in a way, I'd say it's even worse than that, because infertility, it's a natural tragedy.
00:15:59.300 It's terrible, you know, it's awful.
00:16:01.240 It's like any kind of sickness that can really strike you and change your life for good.
00:16:07.480 But there's no sin involved.
00:16:09.760 It just happens.
00:16:12.020 And my deciding that I want to do IVF to have my child means I'm instrumentalizing my child, and I am potentially inflecting a grievous wound on my child.
00:16:22.960 Now, whether that manifests itself or not, I have de facto sinned against that child.
00:16:28.420 You know, whether the child is aware of it or not, whether there are any repercussions along the way.
00:16:32.380 And I think often there are, even if there are not as many studies out there as we would like, because it's simply not a very popular topic.
00:16:40.660 But on the positive end, I'd say to people who are struggling with infertility and who don't have any kids so far, they can act as parents without having children.
00:16:50.760 Because what does a parent do?
00:16:52.880 A parent wants the best for their children.
00:16:56.240 And that means not doing anything dramatic that would grievously wound that child.
00:17:01.380 That would be a sin against the child.
00:17:02.520 So by deciding, I'd rather not have a child than have it through IVF, I am actually acting like a parent.
00:17:10.240 You know, and God has made us tremendous promises about the sterile woman who will be the mother of many. 1.00
00:17:15.240 And we don't know exactly what that will look like in the afterlife, but we know that God keeps his promises and that somehow we will be having babies on our laps and be the parents of many.
00:17:27.740 And that's a way of doing it, even if, unfortunately and heartbreakingly, you may not have us in this life.
00:17:34.680 Now, as you mentioned there, Dr. Hilger's various technologies that assist with reproduction, but natural reproduction, in other words, the child is still conceived in that marital union between the husband and wife, are actually more successful than IVF.
00:17:52.480 But to the great shame of much of the medical community, it's not offered.
00:17:57.820 Can you speak to that a little bit?
00:17:58.720 Yeah, I mean, I've heard Dr. Hilger speak about it also at the Vatican conference and saying that really in terms of success rates, we're not better off now than we were in the 50s.
00:18:11.360 You know, it's simply that the whole industry has gone full steam into this one technology, mainly IVF, and hasn't looked at anything else.
00:18:20.100 And it's a tremendous industry.
00:18:21.880 That means there's a lot of money involved in this.
00:18:24.120 So it's really a big plus for the doctors who are involved in this.
00:18:29.080 And so they don't have much reason to look anywhere else.
00:18:34.560 And so Dr. Hilger's is sidelined.
00:18:38.380 And you hear about him more sort of in pro-life circles and Catholic circles.
00:18:43.820 But he made some tremendous discoveries.
00:18:45.980 You know, he found out that women who have endometriosis, even if they have just a little bit of endometriosis,
00:18:51.720 that can influence their fertility significantly. 0.95
00:18:56.280 And that needs to be taken care of.
00:18:57.720 And he's developed a method of doing that surgically, which is now so sophisticated that it doesn't leave any scars anymore.
00:19:05.140 And he's been able to help so many couples.
00:19:07.920 And he's, yeah, developed also something for the infertility of men. 0.54
00:19:12.340 So he's just looking at it holistically.
00:19:14.640 And, you know, going for treatment for infertility is never easy, even if you go this kind of route.
00:19:20.020 But you feel you're just, you're treated as a person, and your dignity is being respected.
00:19:24.820 And, you know, he's doing his best.
00:19:29.840 And he's just been the means of bringing about so many babies the natural way.
00:19:37.160 One of the things that people don't talk about much is suffering and how to endure suffering.
00:19:47.100 And if you could get into that, I know you talk about that in your book.
00:19:49.300 I thought that was fascinating.
00:19:50.540 Suffering, mourning, it sounds so negative.
00:19:53.780 But, you know, that was one of the dead ends that I reached.
00:19:56.880 I thought, well, we have to be courageous.
00:19:59.280 That's being heroic.
00:20:00.520 That's being virtuous.
00:20:02.240 And I didn't realize that by being, trying to be too courageous in a sense, or courageous at the cost of mourning,
00:20:08.860 I was preventing myself from actually accepting this cross, from grieving properly, 0.98
00:20:15.160 from being able, therefore, to go through this journey and not getting stuck on it.
00:20:22.160 Because, you know, mourning means I'm really, I'm allowing myself to face this sadness.
00:20:30.580 And it can be overwhelming.
00:20:34.060 At the same time, trying all the time to run away from it, being by trying to be courageous,
00:20:39.780 throwing myself into work, as important as it is to, you know, go on with your life and not just sit at home and mope.
00:20:45.860 So it is very important, I think, to allow oneself to grieve.
00:20:51.100 And this, I mean, this is just generally known today.
00:20:53.600 People who go through any kind of loss nowadays will realize they have to grieve.
00:20:57.960 And infertility has been compared to experiencing the death of a child.
00:21:03.260 It's just a child you've never met, you've never had in your arms, who's perhaps never been conceived.
00:21:07.920 And it's just as heartbreaking.
00:21:10.640 And so we don't expect parents who, let's say, just lost their three-year-old to sort of skip and jump through life.
00:21:18.480 And nor should we expect that from ourselves who are experiencing infertility.
00:21:22.940 So I think we need to be aware that again and again, we will have moments where we really need to cry our heart out.
00:21:30.520 Go to our spouse, go to a close friend, go to a priest, go to Christ in the Eucharist and know that he is there with us.
00:21:40.400 What really helped me was reading about Mother Teresa's spirituality and her talking about the thirst of Christ for us.
00:21:52.060 And the thirst for that dark part, this dark part of our hearts, of our souls, we feel it's just too painful for him to go in, either because it's sinful or painful or both.
00:22:04.460 And Mother Teresa called us, those are inner kulkas. 0.63
00:22:08.280 And Christ is desiring tremendously to enter those.
00:22:12.480 And because he's the only one who ultimately can heal them.
00:22:15.600 Other human beings can go in to a certain point through love, but only Christ, who knows us inside out, can go that deep.
00:22:23.300 And so to allow him to come in and heal us is, I found it very, very powerful.
00:22:31.180 And also giving yourself time.
00:22:34.680 So, you know, I was speaking about compassion, so patience.
00:22:37.160 Patience has to do with suffering.
00:22:38.460 It has to do with mourning.
00:22:40.180 And therefore, just taking also one step at a time.
00:22:45.580 When I would think, what is it going to be like, you know, to be infertile in two years, three years, ten years, you know, being old.
00:22:52.260 It was too much.
00:22:53.480 It was just driving me crazy.
00:22:55.240 I couldn't bear that.
00:22:56.240 Also because when I'm given the grace now for how it's going to be in 30 years, we're given the grace for now.
00:23:00.880 And so when I realized, no, all I have to do is accept the infertility for this moment, just for this moment, not even for tomorrow, just for now.
00:23:08.780 Somehow that made it possible.
00:23:10.480 Because before that, it was like, well, I have to accept that I'm not ever going to have any children.
00:23:13.760 And I can't say yes to that.
00:23:15.080 I want children desperately.
00:23:17.120 So, no, God is not asking me to do that.
00:23:19.120 He asks me to say yes to it just for now.
00:23:22.540 And I thought that was tremendously helpful.
00:23:26.280 I also, I don't know, I'm sure you've heard about this wonderful Italian woman, Chiara Corbella, who died like 10 years ago at the age of 27.
00:23:37.480 And she had a very tragic history.
00:23:40.760 She got married young.
00:23:42.040 Her first child was severely handicapped.
00:23:44.720 She found out what she was expecting and was going to die soon after birth.
00:23:48.800 And her husband, of course, decided against abortion.
00:23:51.980 They had the child.
00:23:52.820 They baptized it.
00:23:53.440 They loved it for two hours and then died.
00:23:56.380 And then she got pregnant again. 0.54
00:23:57.620 And the same thing happens.
00:23:58.880 Completely different condition.
00:24:00.880 And again.
00:24:02.000 And each time they thought they would be completely heartbroken.
00:24:04.620 And they were.
00:24:05.820 But at the same time, with a surprise at how much inner joy, with how much inner joy they were felt.
00:24:10.240 This is, of course, a grace.
00:24:11.180 It's not something you set up yourself for.
00:24:13.920 God sometimes lets some go through dark night of the soul, like Mother Teresa, with no joy, you know, no experience.
00:24:19.860 Some sense of experience of joy.
00:24:21.700 And others like Chiara Corbella and her husband, they were given this grace.
00:24:24.740 And then when she was expecting a third time, she developed the kind of cancer that only old men who smoked all their lives get. 0.92
00:24:32.360 And she never smoked.
00:24:33.240 And she was a young woman.
00:24:34.540 And she didn't want to put the child at risk.
00:24:37.000 And so she didn't take any treatment that would hurt the child.
00:24:39.680 And then she gave birth to the child and got treatment.
00:24:43.120 But she died within a year.
00:24:45.160 And as she was dying, her husband said, you know, Christ says that our cross is light.
00:24:52.640 Do you think the cross is light?
00:24:54.820 And she says, oh, it's dolce.
00:24:57.240 The cross is sweet.
00:24:58.800 And he said they were able to do this by doing piccoli passi, doing little steps every day, just taking on what was expected of them and not more.
00:25:09.760 And thereby, they were able to climb a spiritual Mount Everest.
00:25:13.600 And I'm pretty sure she's going to be canonized.
00:25:16.100 And I think her husband is not far behind her in holiness, but he's still alive, so we can't canonize him yet.
00:25:20.600 But these people are so inspiring, you know, as we're struggling through our dark night of the soul.
00:25:26.780 And perhaps God isn't giving us these kind of graces, but he's with us just as much.
00:25:32.400 A lot of people, when they hear about infertility, they speak right away about adoption.
00:25:36.960 How does that figure in?
00:25:40.540 You know, again, it's not something you just should bring up with the infertile couple because it's a vocation as well.
00:25:47.980 And not every couple suffering from infertility feels called to this in the first place.
00:25:53.240 And some have to learn that.
00:25:54.420 I had friends, they tried to adopt five times, and every time it fell through, like at the last minute, suddenly the mother decided differently.
00:26:02.380 So it was tremendous suffering for them, you know, first the infertility, then not working out.
00:26:07.200 And then eventually they figured out that God was calling them to something else.
00:26:10.360 So in a way, it feels a little bit, when people bring that up, like they're trying to sideline you to, you know, step away from your pain.
00:26:17.980 And again, they're just trying to find a solution, which, sure, I mean, adopting is a wonderful thing to do.
00:26:22.760 And a lot of couples are so happy to have adopted children whom they love just as much as they would their biological children.
00:26:30.320 But, you know, every couple, even those that have adopted, would have loved to, to go through pregnancy and give birth to their child.
00:26:39.060 And, and adoption doesn't replace that.
00:26:43.520 So, again, it's something I would, I would not bring up.
00:26:48.560 And, you know, guess what, I think the couple is thinking about it themselves.
00:26:51.940 What do you make, there are probably a good number of, of young women today who talk about, I never, ever want to get pregnant.
00:27:05.680 Those who say, I don't want to get pregnant because that would be a harm to the environment.
00:27:09.240 Or I'm just, why would I ever get pregnant?
00:27:11.400 That's just horrible.
00:27:12.980 What's your thought on them?
00:27:15.100 Wow.
00:27:15.660 It's sad, isn't it?
00:27:16.600 Terrible.
00:27:18.160 I think they've just been given the wrong model, haven't they, for too long.
00:27:21.080 I mean, they've been fed the lie that, you know, success in their job is the meaning of life in a way.
00:27:31.080 That's how they imagine themselves.
00:27:32.200 That's presented as, you know, the happy woman is the one who's successful.
00:27:35.320 Everybody admires her.
00:27:36.940 And they take admiration for love.
00:27:39.260 And often only when it's too late do they realize that it's not the same and they pass childbearing age.
00:27:45.040 So I think, and because there are so few examples now of women around with children and they often see them as, well, those are the ones who are stuck at home. 0.96
00:27:55.920 Well, I mean, A, there are lots of women who do work and have children. 1.00
00:27:59.020 So it is possible, even though, yes, it is harder.
00:28:01.980 And if success is the most important thing in your life, then a child will make things harder for you.
00:28:07.220 But I think women are really by nature so tuned in to personal relationships. 1.00
00:28:14.060 I mean, Edith Stein makes that clear.
00:28:16.580 They're more like the men. 0.75
00:28:18.820 And why do they want to be successful?
00:28:21.260 Because they think that way they will get the love they're craving.
00:28:24.520 You know, it's kind of, it's an as-ups, it's a replacement for.
00:28:28.000 So they took a little bit of time to think about it.
00:28:31.180 Well, what do they really want?
00:28:32.480 You know, you're always in that mad goose chase of, you know, getting to college, getting the best grades, getting the best job.
00:28:37.340 And, you know, and each time you get that and you realize it's not enough, well, guess what?
00:28:40.560 That's just going to continue.
00:28:41.600 Do you really want to continue that rat race?
00:28:44.520 And what do you really want?
00:28:46.460 Well, if you really want love, then love comes by giving love.
00:28:49.600 And, you know, John Paul II was so wonderful in explaining how we're really made for love.
00:28:55.720 And whatever our calling is, whether it's marriage or the religious life or the single life in some way, we're always called to get for self.
00:29:04.020 So if happiness is what you want, then that's the route you need to choose.
00:29:08.000 But it's true that young women just need to see more, more women who are happy at being mothers.
00:29:15.420 Sure, they're tired and they have their issues like everybody else.
00:29:19.260 But boy, do I know a lot of women who are so happy at being mothers. 0.99
00:29:23.500 And I, you know, after nine years, I finally had a baby, my husband and I, and I decided to stop teaching full time at university.
00:29:31.960 And, you know, on one level that was hard and on the other, I'm so glad and I wouldn't want to miss it.
00:29:38.380 You know, it could never, never cover that.
00:29:41.880 My job could never cover that emptiness of not having a child in arms.
00:29:46.980 Wow.
00:29:47.960 Wow, wow.
00:29:48.840 Dr. Marie Meany, thank you so much for being us.
00:29:51.040 Where can people find your book?
00:29:52.660 So it's, Emmaus has published it, so you can get it from their website and then the usual suspects like Amazon, of course, so they don't like to promote them.
00:30:02.940 But Emmaus, yes, is the place to go to.
00:30:05.940 Beautiful.
00:30:07.200 Beautiful.
00:30:08.200 Dr. Marie Meany, thank you so much for being with us and God bless you.
00:30:12.000 God bless.
00:30:12.540 Thank you, John Henry.
00:30:14.200 And God bless all of you.
00:30:15.940 And we'll see you next time.
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