NEW Forensic Files expose FAKE Sr. Lucy of Fatima？
Summary
Dr. Peter Hojnofsky is a philosopher, philosopher, and writer who has dedicated his life to bringing scientific evidence to bear on the mystery of what happened to Our Lady and Our Lord's original seer, Sister Lucy dos Santos.
Transcript
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We see presented to us a woman who we've verified through this scientific analysis
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that it's the same woman as appeared in 1967, but it's not the same woman prior to 1967.
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What happened to the real Sister Lucy? What happened to the seer of Fatima,
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the woman charged by Our Lady and Our Lord, to propagate the Fatima message? What happened to her?
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You know, there's many mysteries in the Vatican. If you look at the record of Robert Calvi,
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the God's banker, the Vatican, who was killed. If you look at Emanuela Orlandi, the young girl who
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was hidden and buried, or they say so. These things are very strange and unknown. They're
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unsolved mysteries. Well, there's another unsolved mystery in the Vatican, and it pertains to
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Sister Lucy dos Santos. She's the seer who survived. The other two seers, Jacinta and Francisco,
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they both passed away as children, as was predicted. But Sister Lucy, or Lucia at the time,
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she lived on. She joined a convent. But something strange happened. She seemed to change her tune
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from around just before 1960 and after. And so some people have postulated that perhaps there is a
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different Sister Lucy, that there was actually an imposter. Now, that sounds pretty out there.
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That's a conspiracy theory, I'm sure. Well, until somebody did the digging. The digging in terms
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of evidence. Evidence that was looked at by forensic experts and found to be credible.
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That's what we've got to look at today with one of the foremost promoters of that evidence,
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the one who found most of it by contracting out two professionals, the evidence. So this is going
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to be very interesting. This is the John Henry Weston Show. Stay tuned.
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Dr. Peter Hojnofsky, good to be with you. Nice to see you, John. Thanks for having me on your show.
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Let's begin, as we always do, with the sign of the cross, in the name of the Father and of the Son
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and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. Dr. Hojnofsky, you are a graduate of Christendom College for your
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undergrad. Then you are a PhD graduate in philosophy. Tell us a little bit about your background,
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if you would, because in postulating what you are now, this endangers credibility for a lot of
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people. I would think, oh my gosh, how could people say that? Because it's so widely regarded
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as conspiracy, as conspiracy theory, that people might look at you funny and say, what are you doing?
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Right. I know. I know. And it shouldn't be my really task to do this because I'm trained as a
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philosopher. As you mentioned, I went to Christendom, got a philosophy and a political
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science degree. I come from Connecticut, is my home. And then I went on to get a philosophy degree,
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a PhD in philosophy from Fordham University in the Bronx. And so, and I went on to teach philosophy
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in eight different institutions of higher learning on the East Coast, in the middle of the country,
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and then lastly, Gonzaga, and then some secondary schools here. I'm not really the one,
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probably to do this, but fate and the will of the Almighty seems to have put that on my shoulders
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at the moment. And probably the thing that led me into this whole thought process and investigation
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was my work with Father Gruner, Father Nicholas Gruner, over the course of 15 years. I mean,
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always going throughout the world, speaking about Fatima, speaking about the children of Fatima,
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the message of Fatima, especially the miracle of the sun, was so important to me and so present in my
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life. But it was really tradition and actions, Marian Horvath's putting forward some pictures that she
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had put together, comparing the pictures of earlier Sister Lucy and pictures that were from a later
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person, later Sister Lucy. And then just looking at those and a number of years ago and saying,
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there's something wrong here. There's something, it just doesn't look right. And maybe there's
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something that's, there's something's wrong that we need to consider. And it was from there that
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I asked around and I asked those, some of those who were involved with me with, with regard to the
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Fatima Center, mostly Cornelia Ferreira and others. I asked, well, do you notice anything that's wrong?
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And certainly there, they looked at it and they said, there's something there. There's something
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that should be considered, but you need to prove it. If there's something wrong, you need to
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to bring scientific evidence. You need to prove whether it's the true or the false, whether there's
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the same woman or a different woman, where there's one Sister Lucy or two, you need to show it. And so I
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took that in the year 2017, you know, the anniversary of the apparitions at Fatima, I took that onto my
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myself. We, I really will, we'll do something about this. We'll, we'll investigate and find out what is the
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situation. So we founded a tax exempt educational organization that was dedicated to figuring out what was
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going on with Sister Lucy. Was it the same person? And what was, what were the details of her life? Or was there a
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problem? And was there actually two Sister Lucy's that were presented to the public? And so we started
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and I hired a private investigator. He did some work for us. And then we hired another private
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investigator. But basically I've been the one to sort of coordinate all the various investigations
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and reports that we've been getting because we wanted the best. My friends who helped me work on this. We said we
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wanted the best. We want to prove it scientifically one way or another. Let's get the best in every profession to
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look at the material. But first of all, we had to get the material. So we put together hundreds of images, not only
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hundreds of images, but videos and also written texts that were written by Sister Lucy early on in the
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twenties and the thirties from her diaries and also letters that she wrote, apparently, supposedly in the
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sixties and up and through the eighties. And we had experts look at that material. And also, John, it's strange
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because the internet provides so many problems in our world and so many temptations or negative
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aspects. And yet, this was the moment where we can actually pursue such an investigation into the question of the
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two Sister Lucy's because all that visual evidence can be looked at, analyzed, gathered, stored, and then presented in a very
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concrete way to the public. So that's what we've been doing. We had to first gather up all the evidence, gather up every
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picture that we could find, either from the internet, or from authorized biographies, or from the Fatima Shrine
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official pictures of Sister Lucy, pictures from newspapers and magazines from 1967. And all that material, we were able to send
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to facial recognition experts to facial recognition experts, at least five, we were able to present them to
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forensic artists, to oral surgeons, to orthodontists and dentists, and also even a physicist and a statistician.
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And so all these people, someone who, a doctor who specializes in lazy eye syndrome, all these various
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experts, we found, we looked for the best in their profession, and we presented our material to them. And their
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findings came in, and we were amazed at what they found.
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What I find so fascinating about these experts is that this is their profession. These are folks who do this
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mainly for the court systems. They are into investigations for the police, on murder cases, on missing persons
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cases, on cases where they discover bodies, and they're trying to identify who they are. These are those experts,
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the ones the courts use. And you actually got the top in those fields. That's what's so, you know,
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what's so compelling because the story that you're telling seems very far-fetched. And so having these
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experts who are so well-renowned is really quite something, but please go ahead.
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And one of the things that we wanted to do was to present the evidence to people who
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especially didn't know about Fatima, or didn't have any position on Sister Lucy one way or another,
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or a religious position, a theological position, didn't necessarily, didn't have anything to do with
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the Catholic Church in any way, presented this evidence to them, and to just look at the photographs,
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look at the pictures, look at the handwriting samples, and what do you see? Do you find,
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based on the aspect of the face, the person, the handwriting that you specialize in, that you're
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an expert in, based on that evidence and based on your analysis, do you find one way or another? Is it
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the same person or a different person? And also the facial recognition technology, which is beyond words
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now. I mean, it's just so incredible. This is a machine, and that's, this is a machine
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which analyzes pictures in a program that analyzes pictures. And that's actually the first report that we
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got was from a facial recognition program. And I remember the day where my children, we were sort
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of waiting, and just to see what would come. And we got that first result, where you had the picture of
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the 1940, 46 Sister Lucy, and then the picture of the 1980s Sister Lucy, and it said, does not equal.
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It's not the same person. So I remember the date very clearly. It was June 28, 2018. And so that was
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the first bit of evidence. But in itself, one analysis, that's not enough. You need more,
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and you need more than just machine analysis or program analysis. You need experts in their field.
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And so that's what we got. And for example, you mentioned people of world-renowned. And a lady we
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presented our work to was Lois Gibson, who is in the Guinness Book of World Records, actually. I think it
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was in 2016. She's a forensic artist. And she was in the Guinness Book of World Records for identifying the
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most criminals through her drawings and her facial reconstructions. She would reconstruct faces from
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just a skull or parts of a skull. And besides being trained as a dentist, this world-renowned expert
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did an analysis for us. And we actually asked her for two reports. The first one asked,
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is it the same Sister Lucy prior to 1967, and then the 67, and then the post-67 Sister Lucy.
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And initially, we grouped the 67 and post-67 Sister Lucy together, and then the pre-67 Sister Lucy.
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And she said, it is impossible. And she said, it is impossible. She said in an email, we have it
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posted. She said, it is impossible that these two women be the same person. And we were struck by that.
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Now, just for clarity's sake, the 67 Sister Lucy or before, those are different? Or the post-67 and the
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67 are the same? There's really three different phases of the pictures, if you will, because there's
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a gap between some of the time periods. And we have pictures of Sister Lucy, of course, from the time
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she was a child during the apparitions and after. And then the 1940s Sister Lucy, we have many pictures of
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those. And all the way until the 50s, when she was a Carmelite. Up until the mid-50s, we have pictures of
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Sister Lucy as a Dorothy and as a child and as a Carmelite. Then there's a gap. And then there's the
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event, and we call it, I think, the C, the category of pictures, from May 13, 1967. And as you know,
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that was the 50th anniversary of the apparition of Our Lady at Fatima. And there, Sister Lucy met with
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Paul VI at Fatima, a very public event where she was in full display, brought forward, and actually
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spoke with Paul VI, we know from newspaper accounts, for three minutes in total only. And so we have very
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clear pictures of that event. And that was a fake Sister Lucy.
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That was a fake Sister Lucy, yes. That was a fake Sister Lucy. We have, and if you check
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our website, sisterlucytruth.org, you see that, that that's, we have separate pictures from that
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event. Because it was just one day. And this was the first time that the person we now know as the
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imposter Sister Lucy was brought forward. That event where she met with Paul VI. And then there's a gap
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until the assassination attempt on John Paul II. And if you remember 1981. And then he, remember,
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it was on May 13, 1981. He was driving in the Popemobile. He bent down to look at a girl who had a card,
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a holy card of Our Lady of Fatima pinned to her dress. And he was shot. And he fell back. And
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there was that assassination attempt. So then John Paul II went to see Sister Lucy, or the person that we
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were led to believe was Sister Lucy, in 1982. And from then on, 1982, until she died in 2005,
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we see presented to us a woman who we've verified through this scientific analysis that it's the same
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woman as appeared in 1967. But it's not the same woman prior to 1967. It's a different woman. In fact,
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with regard to that woman appeared in 1982, we asked Lois Gibson to look at the 67 Lucy and the 82 Lucy.
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We asked her, because there's many theories that say, well, there was multiple Sister Lucys. And we asked
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her to look at the pictures from 1967, analyze them, and then the post-1982 pictures. Are they the same
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person, the same woman? And it was. But that woman is not the same as appeared prior to 1967.
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So there was a single imposter we found. And this has played out in all the reports. We have one report,
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a facial recognition report, which was neutral on the whole question, but said this is an area for
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investigation, certainly. But all the other reports that have come to us have said that that woman who
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appeared on May 13, 1967, is not the same woman that appeared after that, up until her death in 2005.
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We're looking at a fraud that has been perpetrated on the Catholic people. And our task is to investigate,
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well, as we've indicated, whether there was a fraud, and also an imposter, and what was the case?
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Like, what happened? Who was this woman that appeared in 1967 and appeared after 2005? Who was she?
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Where did she come from? And what happened to the real Sister Lucy? What happened? What happened to the
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seer of Fatima, the woman charged by Our Lady and Our Lord to propagate the Fatima message? What happened to
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her? And we're still in the middle of this investigation, so it's by no means complete. What we're satisfied with,
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however, from all our reports, is that there was an imposter and that this is a case that must be
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investigated as to the where and the why. We looked at video evidence. That's another great thing to look
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at and that you have access to now because of the internet. We looked at, we even analyzed the voice
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of the new Sister Lucy, and we asked Portuguese translators and experts where her accent comes from.
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Like, where can she be placed? And they placed her accent in a place, Visu, which is about 100 miles north of
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Fatima, north of Coimbra. And they know it's sort of a suburban accent. It's not a rural accent. And so we're
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we're trying to narrow in on who this woman is and what her story is. But of course, the huge question is,
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what happened to the real Sister Lucy? You know, the facial recognition technology was important,
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but also, you know, the experts, the analyzing of the face, like the different foundational points of
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the face of the face, like the measure between the bottom of the nose to the top of the lip,
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the relation between the eyes, you know, the eyes and the eyebrows and all the various, the chin is so
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important. And so many of the experts points to the point to the different chin construction. And in order to
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say that this, this can't be the same woman, this is not just a matter of dentures, this is not just a
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matter of changing teeth or pulling teeth. This is a skeletal difference. That's what they all say,
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whether it's Dr. Mascara, who's a maxillofacial surgeon, or Dr. Garcia, the plastic surgeon,
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they all say that it's a skeletal difference that we're focusing on that we have here in
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front of us. And that can't change because of any kind of dentation or dentures or any kind of implants.
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Because we do know, we do know that Sister Lucy had very bad teeth. If you look at her pictures from
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the 40s, very bad teeth. And in 1948, all of her teeth were pulled out and she was given dentures.
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Why they needed such drastic measures, I don't know. And it makes you wonder. She was given dentures.
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So we asked, we presented that to the experts and says, does this affect your analysis in any way?
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And they said, well, the fact that she has dentures,
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dentures, and that the pictures progress as they do, shows that it indicates that there's less likely chances of the same woman.
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In fact, it proves more so that it's not the same woman. The changes in her face would be the opposite if dentures were included.
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So those who always bring up, well, she had dentures, well, she had dental work,
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that points in the opposite direction, that there was actually two Sister Lucys.
00:23:23.440
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00:23:31.600
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00:23:50.960
You have handwriting analysis, you have the facial recognition, you have the analysis of the dental record,
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and then the facial spacing and all that. It's fascinating stuff.
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But there is also a difference in her own writings and her attitudes that is markedly different.
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And I know that's not your specialization. I know that you're concentrating on the facts of the matter,
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the physical facts and so on. But you've been around this for so long.
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I'm sure you can tell us, what is it that is the other difference in terms of her attitude,
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in terms of what she said about the Fatima secret and what she said about the need for consecration of Russia,
00:24:40.020
what she said about the need for the revelation of the secret.
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The interview that was done with Carlos Evaristo, it was actually the same day in two different years.
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October 11, 1992, the first meeting. And then October 11, 1993, the second meeting.
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And there was various cardinals, bishops and clerics, priests there.
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And so Carlos Evaristo was there and he was questioning her.
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And you can see this. This is on the Internet. We have it up on our site and I've publicized it,
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And what's amazing, and we presented this evidence, you know,
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is this the same Sister Lucy? And it comes back to us, no, that this wasn't.
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But of course, Russia has such a huge role in the whole Fatima secret, the whole Fatima revelation.
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Our Lady said that she would come back and ask for the consecration of Russia
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to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, which she did in 1929.
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And she asked the popes to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart with all the Catholic bishops of the world.
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And Sister Lucy, now with the one we know is the authentic one, always was very demanding of the popes,
00:26:13.000
Please encourage the Holy Father to consecrate Russia like Our Lady asked.
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And Pius XII, as you know, consecrated Russia on his own by himself.
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And not in union with the bishops of the world like was requested.
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And Sister Lucy was always very demanding of the clergy within this regard.
00:26:38.860
You have to do it because Russia has to be converted.
00:26:44.620
And listen, John, when we hear conversion, a Catholic, and when we say conversion,
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When that word came out of the mouth of Sister Lucy, we know exactly what she meant.
00:27:04.480
Because the whole Fatima message, confirmed by the miracle of the Son, was an affirmation of the Catholic faith.
00:27:15.100
And to affirm that, when this woman in 1993, she was asked,
00:27:23.040
what about the consecration of Russia and the conversion of Russia?
00:27:29.540
And she said, no, that's not a conversion to the Catholic faith.
00:27:50.700
She says that it doesn't mean conversion to the Catholic faith.
00:27:55.720
What it means is conversion to a system which will allow people to choose the faith that they want,
00:28:11.560
Well, that's not what the conversion of Russia meant.
00:28:15.180
That's not what the conversion of Russia meant.
00:28:18.280
It fits in with a certain Vatican II view, a certain liberal view of Dignitatis Humanae.
00:28:32.780
But it doesn't fit in with what Sister Lucy was talking about way back when or what Our Lady was asking for.
00:28:40.060
And also what came up, not only that strange thing, but also what came up was that Sister Lucy didn't want the message released in 1960.
00:28:54.620
When the real Sister Lucy absolutely said that this secret, the third secret, must be released either in 19, when I die, or in 1960, whichever comes first.
00:29:23.400
Yeah, and she also said at that point that the message was solely for the Holy Father, okay, which had never been said by Sister Lucy before.
00:29:36.040
The message was for the whole church and the whole world, really.
00:29:41.940
It was for the whole church and the whole world.
00:29:44.460
So a shocking contradiction in what she had stated earlier.
00:29:53.300
And so many things expressed, speaking of the Jews, as still being the chosen people of God.
00:30:00.800
And coming from this mentality of that they have their own specific covenant that is still valid, and there's no need to convert.
00:30:15.260
That they were still the chosen people of God, yes.
00:30:18.180
The real Sister Lucy never spoke about the Jews, I mean, as specifically a topic before.
00:30:25.520
So out of this interview, you see Sister Lucy, the so-called Sister Lucy, and the forensic evidence seems to suggest conclusively that it is a false Sister Lucy.
00:30:37.540
But definitely what is being said there is false, because Sister Lucy was very clear about the need for Russia to be consecrated, because she had already told previous popes, nope, not good enough.
00:30:50.640
Sorry, it didn't work, because you didn't mention Russia.
00:30:52.840
Sorry, it didn't work, because you didn't include all the bishops of the world.
00:30:56.700
She didn't emphasize that Russia had to be named by name, because that's what the entity, the state entity that was being consecrated.
00:31:05.860
For example, John Paul II didn't mention Russia specifically, and yet she's going to say that that consecration was valid, and that consecration was sufficient for, and Our Lady was pleased with it, and that was sufficient for the consecration that she asked.
00:31:25.800
It's shocking, because it contradicts everything the previous Sister Lucy had said.
00:31:32.180
And to another interesting point that we've run into, it was an interview given to the Wanderer by Dr. Zuggaby.
00:31:46.320
And it was an interview given to the Wanderer, and he talks about that interview of Carlos Evaristo with the supposed Sister Lucy.
00:31:57.100
And he says that Carlos Evaristo was so shocked by what he encountered in that interview that he actually went to the Portuguese police and said, can you investigate this?
00:32:17.820
He recognized that this isn't the same woman that we all know has been purported to be the seer of Fatima.
00:32:33.300
The Portuguese police sent him to Dr. Zuggaby in the United States.
00:32:39.320
And Dr. Zuggaby assured Carlos Evaristo, oh, it's the same woman, based on no real evidential investigation.
00:32:52.200
And so it's interesting that way back then, someone who was sort of committed to this new Sister Lucy recognized that it wasn't her and actually went to the police and said, do you know that there's this problem?
00:33:06.380
The actual difference in what she's saying, the stark, stark difference from the pre-1967 Sister Lucy, who was so insistent with the popes to consecrate Russia, they tried it, didn't do it by name, so have to do it again.
00:33:23.140
And then you have the same Sister Lucy from back then, insisting that the secret be revealed, that Russia be converted, meaning to the one true faith.
00:33:33.200
And yet now the story's completely changed in the post-1967 Sister Lucy to stuff that doesn't even make sense from a Catholic perspective, especially about the conversion of the Jews.
00:33:46.260
That makes it impossible from the intellectual understanding of who Sister Lucy was.
00:33:51.400
But people might have said, well, maybe she just lost her mind.
00:33:56.640
Except for someone so saintly, you'd think, oh, that might be weird.
00:34:00.460
But then your evidence brings in this from every means possible sort of conclusions from forensic experts who are used in the courts themselves.
00:34:09.840
A world record winner for being able to identify most of them.
00:34:15.020
What an incredible story of possible Vatican cover-up in an age where cover-up in the Vatican is a massive story.
00:34:25.200
In your story, I mean, God bless you for this evidence which you've dug up, and it really does need to be told.
00:34:33.420
Where can people go for more information to learn more about what you do and what you've found?
00:34:39.160
We've published everything that we commissioned, as is, as they produced it, the experts.
00:34:47.940
All the evidence is there, and more than I've even mentioned, you know, we have three-dimensional reconstructions,
00:34:55.840
sculptural reconstructions that artists and intellectuals have done from the pictures of the Sister Lucy
00:35:04.060
to show that one has a convex face and one has a concave face.
00:35:09.920
And there's so much different evidence that we present, and also the linguistic evidence.
00:35:16.700
The videos that are out there from the new Sister Lucy, we've translated the Portuguese conversations,
00:35:28.880
We would not expect a saintly woman to be saying these things in these circumstances.
00:35:36.380
So we've had it all translated, and we've put it up.
00:35:39.840
And also, I think people would be interested, as we move ahead with this investigation,
00:35:48.340
We have an analysis of her accent, the accent of the new Sister Lucy,
00:35:54.360
and where that puts her on the map of Portugal, with regard to all the dialects and idioms that are used.
00:36:03.320
So that's a fascinating aspect, too, because we're moving forward.
00:36:10.260
We have also this mathematical analysis of the various parts of her face
00:36:16.320
and working with various, you know, orthodontists and facial recognition people
00:36:27.380
a mathematical analysis of the faces of Sister Lucy.
00:36:31.440
And we find that there's an incredible, stark difference between their faces.
00:36:42.580
And that's what we started looking for in the beginning, scientific evidence.
00:36:47.640
I didn't want to make it dependent on any theological view or any doctrinal situation.
00:37:03.580
Dr. Hoinevsky, thank you so much for joining us here on the John Henry Weston Show.
00:37:08.640
And I pray a lot of people recognize what you found
00:37:12.080
and really what is so startling about what you found
00:37:14.800
and how it seems to fit with all the other evidence that's out there.
00:37:32.300
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