NEW PRO-LIFE MOVIEļ¼ Abby Johnson discusses ļ¼Unthinkableļ¼, reveals the next pro-life phenomenon
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Summary
Abby Johnson is one of the most well-known pro-life activists in the pro-choice movement. She has been with me at the Catholic Identity Conference, and has been on the other side of the abortion debate for many years. She is a tireless advocate for abortion rights, and is a passionate defender of the unborn. In this episode, Abby talks about abortion, the abortion industry, and the Catholic Church's silence on abortion.
Transcript
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We have a worker who had a gun pointed at her head the day that she left her abortion
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clinic, and it was the owner's son who pointed a gun to her head and said, if you ever talk
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about the things you've seen here, I will come back and blow your brains out.
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I mean, let's talk about what the abortion industry is really like.
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In fact, to anyone in the pro-life movement, she is one of the best known figures.
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Abby was with me at the Catholic Identity Conference, and she's been around everywhere.
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She is so straightforward, so pull no punches, because she's been there.
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And I think people who have been on the other side, because they know what life is like on
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the other side, when they come to the truth, and in Abby's case, when she comes to the fullness
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of truth, you have an amazing warrior for truth like none other.
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Let's begin, as we always do, with the sign of the cross.
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In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
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We were together at the Catholic Identity Conference, and the title of your talk there
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It was, Vatican Disappearing Act is the Pope Pro-Life.
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So, because I also don't like to beat around the bush, why don't we start with that?
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Give us a little synopsis of what that was about.
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We see the Pope offering an audience and discussions with people like Chelsea Clinton.
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We see the Vatican now appointing two pro-abortion members, one person that's heading now the
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You know, something that was instituted by St. Pope John Paul II.
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And that was specifically something that was supposed to discuss pro-life issues.
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When that was originally created, every single member had to sign a document, a statement,
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And now the Pope, Pope Francis, has eliminated that statement.
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The current head of that academy has on her social media accounts, all kinds of statements
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She has statements saying that she is for abortion.
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And this is who he has appointed to head this group that was instituted by JP2 to be a pro-life
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And, you know, also the, the Pope has invited Joe Biden to have an audience with him, has
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invited Nancy Pelosi to have an audience with him.
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What we believe to be true is that he has given the whole Eucharist to both of them after,
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you know, Archbishop Corleone, Nancy Pelosi's archbishop said.
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These are two people who are outspokenly in favor of abortion through all nine months of
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The Pope is going against our own beliefs and teachings in the Catholic Church.
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And, you know, do I believe that the, that Pope Francis thinks abortion is wrong?
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Of course, he has said things to let us believe that he, you know, has, has equated, equated
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hiring an abortion provider to hiring a hit man.
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So do I, I believe that, that he thinks abortion is wrong?
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Yes, I do believe that, but he has also led us to believe that, that he believes that climate
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change is as an important issue as killing our pre-born children in the womb and makes
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more statements regarding climate change than he does killing pre-born children.
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He makes it very clear that stopping abortion is not a priority for him, but, you know, being
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concerned about the climate is an issue for him, is a priority issue for him.
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It's confusing for people all around the world who are looking to the Catholic Church for
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He made virtually no statement when Roe was overturned of the, you know, I, I believe one
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of, um, the biggest victories in, in the world regarding abortion rights and the pro-life
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movement, he made pretty much, didn't say a peep about it.
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And I think that that speaks to the priority, his priority surrounding the pro-life issue.
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And I think that he is a person who has so greatly watered down the pro-life movement with everything
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else under the sun, which unfortunately is what we see a lot of Catholics do.
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The pro-life movement is, and always has been, and always should be laser focused on ending
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And unfortunately, there are many Catholics who like to throw in every other social justice,
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social justice movement into the pro-life movement.
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And the Pope is one of them, you know, equating the slaughter of the pre-born with immigration
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You know, everything else you can think of falls into the pro-life movement.
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It really hurts what we're trying to do when it comes to protecting our most vulnerable.
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One of the things that is unique about you is that you did walk on the other side.
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You, as most people know, your story was living on the other side, running Planned Parenthood
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The shocking thing for many people is that many people think of the pro-life movement as, well,
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Once people are post-birth, they don't give a darn about you.
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Why don't you speak for a moment just to your experience of coming from the other side and
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how you were received by the pro-life movement?
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Was it with disdain or we don't want to talk to you because you were, you did these horrible
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I could have just, you know, sort of slinked away into a corner and said, you know, I don't
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What I wanted to do was just reach out to the pro-life movement, this group of people
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who had said, you know, we're willing to help you find another job if you ever want to leave.
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And I thought I do need to take them up on their offer because I, you know, sort of said
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I lived in a very conservative community and was in the media a lot for being the Planned
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Parenthood director and everybody in town was pro-life.
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And so I thought I'm going to need some help if I, if I want to get a job around here.
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And, and so I thought they can vouch for me, right?
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They they'll know me and they'll know about my change of heart.
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And I thought I wanted to stay kind of maybe in the medical field or I, you know, I'm a
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And so maybe I want to use my, my actual degree, my, my education.
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And so maybe they can help me in that field as well.
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And I never intended on telling my story publicly, but I knew that I was going to need some friends
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You know, I was the one that had said, don't talk to me.
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And, and so they were the ones that befriended me and it was, you know, all of my tolerant,
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liberal best friends that were inside of the abortion industry.
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In fact, when Planned Parenthood sued me and tried to get a permanent gag order against me,
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it was those liberal best friends of mine that actually took the stand and lied.
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And it was later proven in the court case that they were lying.
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And that's why the, that's why the case was thrown out.
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But it was all of these people who were supposedly so tolerant that turned against me when my beliefs
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And I can tell you, John Henry, that, you know, when I, when I originally left,
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it wasn't that I was, you know, conservative on all of these issues,
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I mean, I was dang near a socialist on, you know, on many issues, but then I'd had this,
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And I can't even say that I was, I wasn't even totally pro-life.
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I mean, I just sort of was like, I know that I don't want to be a part of abortion anymore.
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I hadn't even really made up my mind on what I thought about abortion in all situations or
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You know, I just knew I didn't want to have my hand in it.
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I certainly was still a believer in, in gay marriage.
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I was still a believer in fully a believer in contraception.
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I had my, I had an IUD and still, I believed in contraception.
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I believed in all of these other things, sex education in schools.
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I, I still had all of these very liberal beliefs.
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I, I still had all of these very, you know, liberal held beliefs, but I just didn't like
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They loved me, even though I had all of these other beliefs that were very contradictory,
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And I was still working all of this out, right?
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But they were still just there and loving me and just gently guiding me.
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And when my faith community, we were Episcopalian and my faith community turned their back on
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My faith community said, well, if you're publicly pro-life, you can't be Episcopal anymore.
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And these people who I believed to be my enemy for eight years, they were the ones that were
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It's how you've brought in another ministry that you, you run the, the, and then there
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were none, so many workers in the abortion industry out because your witness is so powerful.
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It tells the truth when it's so, so, so hidden.
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We've helped 630 abortion workers leave their jobs and, you know, yes, we help them get new
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But really the victory for us is helping them come into relationship or get back into relationship
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And because it's not just about a job, it's, it's so much more than that.
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We don't really count that number unless, unless that's, that's the end goal.
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And I have to tell you, for those that have some sort of, of childhood faith foundation,
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And so getting them back into the sacraments, it's really, it's, it's like witnessing a
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We had a woman who, I won't use her name, but she was a fallen away Catholic.
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She had worked in the industry and we have these healing retreats for our former workers.
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And it's a different, they have different phases.
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So our phase one retreats are the first, the first time they've ever come on a healing retreat with us.
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So they're typically run by me and another therapist.
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And this woman came and she'd worked at a Planned Parenthood abortion facility.
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And she had been inside of a psychiatric hospital since working in a Planned Parenthood,
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had suffered greatly with her mental health, which is not surprising.
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After working in an abortion facility and doing some of the things that she had done.
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And she had not been to confession in, in years.
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And so we have this healing retreat and she said to me, Abby, do you think there's any way
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after the first day, she said, do you think there's any way that you could, you could get
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And I said, oh, I, I bet I, I bet I could find a priest that would hear your confession.
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So I called a friend of mine who lives down the road in our community.
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And I said, Father Brian, I said, is there any way, this is a Saturday.
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And I said, is there any way that you could hear one of our clients' confessions?
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So we met him up there and I didn't actually go.
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And the other, the Protestant therapist, Amanda, actually took this woman up to the, up to the
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And she was just very sort of, sort of withdrawn, you know, even just her posture was sort of
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inward and, and even her coloring, it's sort of hard to describe, but her coloring was almost
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sort of ashen, just sort of like, you know, just not a lot of color there, not a lot of
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And so my, my friend, Amanda takes her and she sits down with Father Brian and they have
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She comes out, she comes back to the house and she looked like a different woman.
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Her shoulders were opened up and her face was a different color.
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She had pink in her face and her cheeks, her eyes, her eyes were brighter.
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And so my Protestant friend, Amanda, she said, I have you, I've never seen anything like
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She said, she went in, she went into the chapel and she came out and she physically looked
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It was like a different woman that, that walked in and came out.
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And I said, well, yeah, I said, that's, I mean, that's power of confession, right?
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And this, and our therapist, Amanda, or this Protestant therapist, she's a pastor's wife.
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And she said, I just, I, she said, Abby, there, there's something about that confession.
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I said, yeah, there is something about that confession.
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And so being able to, to help these, these former workers who are fallen away Catholics,
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getting back into the sacraments, getting reconnected with, with the Eucharist, getting
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reconnected with these Holy Sacraments is such an amazing miracle.
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It's just really, it's a, it's a beautiful thing.
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00:18:25.020
Your life story, at least the first part of it, has been already told in, in your books,
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in a film even, but you're doing another film or, or it's, another film is being done on
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sort of the continuation of Abby's story from your sort of conversion out of the, the pro
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abortion movement and then on and on, because to me, the, the secondary part is so, so, so
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beautiful. First of all, tell us about the new film and what's going on with it. And when
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you're listening to this folks, please know that we have a life funder, which is LifeSite's
00:19:04.100
own GoFundMe alternative because GoFundMe doesn't allow really, really good fundraisers,
00:19:08.280
crowd funders. So we have a life funder for this new Abby Johnson film called Unthinkable.
00:19:13.800
All the time, pro abortion people will say, I'll tell my story about my facility, what
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happened inside of that Planned Parenthood. And they'll say, well, that's just what happened
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at your clinic. That's just what happened at, you know, your Planned Parenthood. That's
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not every Planned Parenthood. That's not what happens in the abortion industry, you know,
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by and large, that's just that yours was like a one-off. Right. And I'm like, okay, not really,
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but you know, okay, you can, you can believe that. Right. And, and I'll say, you know, but
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that's not true. We have, you know, six, over 600 former abortion workers that have the same
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story. And they're like, well, where are they? Why aren't they taught? Where are they? And there
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are many that, that do speak out. We have many who share their story now, but that got me thinking,
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you know, we do need to tell their stories in a, a documentary sort of a film. And so I started
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talking to documentarians. I don't, I don't really know anything about doing a documentary. So I started
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talking to documentarians and started sort of pitching this idea, you know, what if we really
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exposed the underbelly of the abortion industry? And what if we started telling our stories and
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maybe you're wrong, you know, maybe, maybe mine is just a one-off, right? But let's find out.
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Let's go talk to dozens and dozens of other former Planned Parenthood employees and private
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abortion facility employees. Let's hear their stories. Let's, let's hear about what it was like
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working in the abortion clinic. Let's hear about how women were treated. You know, let's hear about
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the corporate practices, the systemic practices inside of the industry. And let's see how bad it really
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is, or let's see how good it is. Right. And so that's what we've done. So we gathered dozens and
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dozens of former abortion workers, some directors, some nurses, we're talking to doctors, former abortion
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doctors, and we're just, we've gathered them all together and we are sharing stories. We are talking
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about what happens inside of the abortion clinic. We're talking about the psychological ramifications
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of working in an abortion clinic. Those have never been studied before. We're finally studying them.
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You know, what, what brings someone to work inside of an abortion clinic? We're talking about the
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brainwashing that takes place while you're working inside of an abortion clinic. We're talking about what
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it's like to leave an abortion clinic. You know, we have a worker who had a gun pointed at her head
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the day that she left her abortion clinic. And it was the owner's son who pointed a gun to her head
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and said, if you ever talk about the things you've seen here, I will come back and blow your brains out.
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We're, you know, we're talking about, you know, other, other people who, workers who have worked in the
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industry, whose coworkers overdosed on fentanyl that they were, that they got from inside the clinic,
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overdose on fentanyl because of things that they saw in the clinic, narcotics abuses, alcoholism,
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drug abuse, the ways that people cope because of the things that they have seen in the clinic. Workers that
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have witnessed women dying on clinic tables, not calling ambulances. I mean, you know what, let's just talk
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about it. I mean, let's talk about what the abortion industry is really like. You know, let's talk about this
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supposed healthcare that women are receiving inside of the abortion clinics. And let's just be really
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honest about it. Everybody needs to see this film. If you are going to support abortion, you need to know
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exactly what you are supporting. And you can argue with one person. Somebody can argue with me and say,
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you know what, that is just your story. But how can you argue with 50 to 100 abortion workers appearing
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in a documentary and saying, these are people who don't really know each other, right? They've just
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shown up to tell their stories. And when we all have the same sort of story and we've all worked for the
00:24:10.100
same industry, how can you look at all of us and say, no, that was just a one-off. No, that was just a
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one-off. That was just a one-off. When there's only 800 abortion facilities in the country and we
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represent 100 of them just in this documentary. How can you say that's just a coincidence? It's not
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a coincidence. Then you're talking about a systemic problem. We talk about it as reproductive health
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care. And the doctors that show up to promote it are all in white lab coats like every other doctor.
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We have to realize this is a killing industry. And it's very hard to link that up with the reality
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when it's all shielded and hidden and talked about under euphemisms and called women's rights and
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everything else. But it's from those who've been on the other side and can show us, as you have,
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the glimpse from the inside that really the reality hits and it begins to strike people.
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And God willing, we'll one day make abortion unthinkable.
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I want to talk to you also, Abby, about something that is so beautiful. When you came to the truth,
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you came to the fullness of the truth. You entered the Catholic Church as well. And you didn't stop in
00:25:24.880
your pursuit of truth. I think there's a lot of people because there's a lot of parts of Catholicism
00:25:28.680
that are challenging, then more challenging. So in the issue of life, one of the most challenging
00:25:34.900
things is the Church's teaching on contraception. Very few people talk about it and probably even
00:25:41.440
fewer live it out because it's a challenge. When you embraced life, you got rid of the
00:25:49.500
contraception that you were on and you actually did. You were young enough and you have a whole
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bunch of children now. As beautiful as that is, it's still a challenge. Tell us about your
00:26:00.520
thoughts on contraception and what you would tell women and men now about it.
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I started contraception at a very young age without my parents even knowing about it.
00:26:11.700
It's just, you know, sort of the thing to do, I guess. My friends just went to, you know,
00:26:17.320
the community clinic and got birth control. And so I said, okay, well, I guess I'll do that too.
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We weren't educated on how to take it. We weren't educated on, you know, what it did to your body.
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It just, you just got it in a brown paper bag and went home and started taking it. You know,
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we didn't know that it would, you know, it could increase our risk of heart disease, breast cancer,
00:26:38.240
stroke, you know, bone density loss. We didn't know all of these things, but that's what society said
00:26:45.320
that you did. You got young, you know, you were young. If you had some pimples on your face,
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you took birth control. If you had a regular period, you took birth control. If you had headaches,
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you took birth control, you know, it's, it's like the one, one solution pill for women when it's
00:27:03.720
really not a solution at all. It's breaking something that's working perfectly, perfectly fine.
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And there's no other, there's no other pill. There's no other medication in the world
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that we give to someone to break something when it's working fine. But we do that with contraception
00:27:29.800
and women. So, you know, there's thousands of women who walk into doctor's offices every day
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and they say, you know, doctor, my fertility is working so good. I want you to give me a pill
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to make it not work anymore. And that's absurd. And not only will it break your fertility temporarily,
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it can break it permanently. And not only that, but as pro-lifers, we should all have an issue with
00:28:02.180
contraception because when you begin to learn about contraception, you realize that there is
00:28:09.860
potential to actually take life with hormonal contraception. And so that's something that I
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think is very challenging for the pro-life movement, because I think the pro-life movement,
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a lot of people don't know that. And then when they do know that they want to pretend they don't know
00:28:28.680
that because they don't want to change their lifestyle and they don't want to be uncomfortable.
00:28:39.760
And, you know, but the reality is that every single form of hormonal contraception,
00:28:45.440
every single form of hormonal contraception has the ability to take a fertilized egg. So a newly
00:28:56.000
created human being, it has the ability to, that this is the backup form. This is the backup way
00:29:03.460
that hormonal contraception works. If it doesn't prevent ovulation, then the backup way that hormonal
00:29:10.540
contraception works is that it takes this newly created human being. It creates a hostile uterine
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environment so that that newly created human being will not be able to implant and attach to the uterine
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wall. Therefore, you have a spontaneous abortion or a miscarriage. And you have intentionally done
00:29:29.520
something to your body so that that cannot happen. And that's why it's considered an abortion and
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abortifation. If we believe as pro-lifers that life begins at conception, which we all do, then we should
00:29:41.980
have a problem with contraception because that's what contraception is. It's against conception.
00:29:51.500
It is a challenge for a lot of people. It's a challenge for a lot of Catholics. One of the
00:29:56.880
reasons it's a challenge for a lot of Catholics is because the Catholic church isn't teaching on it
00:30:01.480
like they should. Priests are not teaching on it like they should. And we're not even teaching on
00:30:09.120
abortion like we should. So we're certainly not teaching on contraception like we should.
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There's a lot of people that talk about, you know, infertility is a cross and infertility is a cross
00:30:19.240
to bear. It's a heavy cross to bear. My husband and I, after I had my IUD removed, we actually
00:30:24.560
struggled with some fertility for two years. And so nobody believes me because now we have eight
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children and they're like, there's no way you struggle with infertility. But we did.
00:30:34.860
We did for two years. And I understand the longing for a child. I do. This ability to get pregnant
00:30:41.300
every time the wind blows is also a cross to bear. And, and so, you know, having a large family is
00:30:51.460
also a cross to bear. And we all have crosses to bear in our lives, whether it's, you know, not having
00:31:00.640
children, whether it's having many, many children. But, you know, God gives us the grace and the tools
00:31:07.640
that we need to bear those crosses. And sometimes we have those crosses so that we can lean into him
00:31:13.820
even more so that we can depend on him in an even greater way. And that's what, you know,
00:31:20.880
Doug and I have realized. We are so grateful. We're so blessed with all the children that we do have.
00:31:27.220
But I can tell you that all of these children that we do have have fostered an even greater dependence
00:31:33.280
on the Lord in many days. So, so, you know, I think that, but, but I, you know, Doug always says
00:31:46.260
when I was actually in mass, we were just started the RCIA process. And I was one of those very,
00:31:56.320
very stubborn RCIA attendees. And I had just decided that I would be a Catholic who contraceptives
00:32:08.220
because I was never going to be one of those people who didn't support contraception. And I
00:32:16.300
wasn't because God does nothing subtly in my life. And I was sitting in mass one day and I was sitting
00:32:24.620
behind this woman with her, with her new, newly born child. And it was like, God smacked me over the
00:32:35.440
head with a board. In that instant, he said to me, go get your IUD taken out. And I was like, what?
00:32:46.000
And I was like, really? And so I just felt this desire to have more children, a desire I had never
00:32:57.060
had before. Not even when I had my daughter, Grace. And I just had all of a sudden in my heart,
00:33:02.300
I had this longing to have more children that I'd never had before. And I'm looking at this little
00:33:07.800
tiny baby. And I was just like, I got to have more kids. I just, I got to start having more kids right
00:33:13.720
now. And so I look over at my husband in the middle of mass. I whispered to him. I said,
00:33:21.100
I've got to go get my IUD out. And he looked at me and he said, now, it's like, well, not now,
00:33:31.920
but like tomorrow. And he says to people, he says, that's the sexiest thing Abby's ever said to me.
00:33:41.300
I went to my OB the next day. And I said, I've got to get this IUD out. And she said,
00:33:45.520
what are you going to do for birth control? And I said, nothing. I said, I want kids. I said,
00:33:50.100
and then when we do, I said, I guess we'll use this NFP thing. I don't know. My friends have been
00:33:53.580
talking about it. I don't know what it is. And she said, well, I can't help you with that,
00:33:57.420
but maybe the Catholic church knows something about it. And I said, yeah, we'll, we'll figure
00:34:01.640
it out. And she said, well, you'll be able to get pregnant immediately. As soon as I removed this,
00:34:07.300
but the IUD had damaged my body so much that I had to end up going to a NAPRO doctor to get
00:34:16.760
everything worked back out in my body. And it took us two years to get pregnant with our son, Alex,
00:34:21.500
and then everything jumpstarted and then we couldn't stop getting pregnant. And
00:34:25.800
that's been a blessing, but, but yeah, I mean, it's, it's, you know, it's been a beautiful journey,
00:34:32.720
but I think a lot of people don't realize the damage and the stress that they're doing to their
00:34:39.280
body. And I think a lot of, a lot of women and couples and men, they don't realize that
00:34:45.840
they're taking life. They're potentially taking life whenever they're using these hormonal methods
00:34:54.400
and even non-hormonal methods, they're putting a barrier, you know, in their marriage where there
00:34:59.240
shouldn't be one. And when you give yourself over to your spouse, when you say, I'm giving all of me,
00:35:05.460
then truly give all of you to your spouse. Don't have any barrier in between, in between you and your
00:35:11.660
spouse. And that means giving all of you, giving your fertility, giving, giving everything.
00:35:16.300
You know, I've often thought about your husband because having read and watched your story,
00:35:23.680
Doug has always been like a, a, a hero in, in a sense to me too, because he followed you in
00:35:31.720
everything and supported you. And it was beautifully portrayed in the film, you know, just how loving
00:35:40.420
a husband. And anyway, please give him my best. I, I, I'm sure he is such a support for you. You've
00:35:47.800
got such a beautiful family. God bless you for that. Tell us a little bit about Doug.
00:35:52.540
He's amazing. He really is. And people always ask, cause he really is great as, as he made him out to
00:35:58.000
me in the movie. And I'm like, he is an even better. He's, he's amazing. He's always been such a good
00:36:03.440
support to me and really such a good husband and a good father. And he's his patron saying to St.
00:36:11.460
Joseph. And he said, I had to pick the best dad out there. So he did, he, he's such a, he's such a
00:36:17.200
good father. And, you know, when I worked at Planned Parenthood, he was always pro-life and people had asked
00:36:23.280
him, you know, how could you marry somebody when you're pro-life and, you know, they will, she was
00:36:28.360
working, you know, at an abortion clinic. And he just always said, you know, I loved her. And
00:36:33.300
by that time there were just really no deal breakers. You know, I just, I knew that eventually
00:36:39.640
she would come around and I knew that she was too caring to, to not eventually see that she had to
00:36:45.120
care for both the woman and the child. And, and so he just was very faithful and in praying and
00:36:52.540
along with my parents. And I think, you know, between my husband's prayers and my parents' prayers,
00:36:58.540
those were the two greatest influences in my life. And, and really, you know, among three of
00:37:05.780
them, I believe that their prayers are the primary reason that I'm here today. Really let that be an
00:37:11.320
encouragement to anybody who's listening and that, you know, for anyone, whether it's a spouse or
00:37:18.420
children, particularly children who are sort of wayward and, and maybe on their own path that,
00:37:25.040
you know, the Bible makes that promise that as long as we, you know, train them up and
00:37:30.120
in the foundation of their faith, that they will one day return. And, you know, my parents
00:37:35.920
really held on to that biblical promise. And, you know, I remember my dad told my, my mom said that
00:37:44.120
my dad told her one day, you know, Kathleen, we may not be here to see it. We may not be here to see
00:37:49.700
that day come, but we, we have to hold on to that promise that the Lord has made us, that she will
00:37:56.860
one day return. And that's why it's so important for us as parents to train our children up in the
00:38:02.880
way that they should go, because they may temporarily walk away from that faith, but we have to believe
00:38:09.060
in the Lord's promise that they will one day return.
00:38:12.300
Abby, where can people find out about what you're doing about your new film? I know they can go to
00:38:16.480
LifeFunder if they want to support it, LifeFunder slash Unthinkable. Where else can they find out
00:38:20.980
about you and everything you're doing? Yeah, they can just go to my website,
00:38:24.640
abbyj, A-B-B-Y-J dot com. They can find out more about everything I'm doing. They can hear my podcast.
00:38:31.240
Everything I do is on that website. Beautiful. Abby, thank you so very much for being with us.
00:38:36.620
Of course. Thank you for having me. God bless you, Abby and Doug and all your children,
00:38:41.940
of course, and God bless all of you. And we'll see you next time.
00:38:46.480
Hi, everyone. This is John Henry Weston. We hope you enjoyed this video. And to see more like this,
00:38:52.800
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00:39:16.480
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