NOW In Rome： Pope Francis Amps Up 'Culture Of Fear'
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Summary
Cardinals are under increasing pressure from Pope Francis to do more of what he wants them to do, and some of them are speaking out against what they see as "falling away from the true path of the church." What does this mean for the future of the Catholic Church as a whole?
Transcript
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There is a culture of fear within the Vatican that cardinals don't know who Pope Francis is
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going to turn to next. They don't know what he's going to take aim at next. And it seems at the
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moment he is very much clamping down on the cardinals. At LifeSite News, we've been covering
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things in Rome for over 20 years. And today we have to have a special focus because as most of
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you know, it's just crazy. It's crazy on a daily basis. We have two Vatican correspondents permanently
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there in Rome. With us today is Michael Haynes. He's our lead correspondent in Rome. And we're
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going to be talking about a few of the things that are ongoing. We're going to be talking about
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Cardinal Hollerich just appointed to the Pope's special advisory committee, a position which
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Cardinal Pell left when he went to jail, actually. And also the hypocrisy going on there. Because
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while Cardinal Pell was sent to jail, falsely, of course, and Father Pavone was just laicized
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on accusations. This priest was just celebrating mass last Sunday or can celebrating mass. And
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well, he's a friend of Pope Francis. He's a leftist. He's also a Jesuit. There's in addition
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to that, there's a new thing with the Cardinals. The retired Cardinals, some of whom are speaking out
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against what they see as, you know, clearly falling away from the true path of the church,
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from the teachings of Jesus Christ, being willing to mention that. They're being threatened. They're
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being threatened with eviction from their properties. It's not really their properties,
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of course. It's Roman properties. But of course, the Cardinals are Roman citizens. The Cardinals
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are citizens of, excuse me, Vatican citizens. And it is for the retired Cardinals to have their places
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in Rome. It's always been done. They're in Vatican properties right outside the Vatican wall for the
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most part. They're in a beautiful apartment complex that's right outside the Vatican. In fact,
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take a look at this clip. This is a clip of an interview I did with Cardinal Francis Orinze.
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And it's from his apartment, from the balcony of his apartment. And as you can see, it's beautiful.
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Here we are. It's looking right over St. Peter's Square. Do you know such apartments would run,
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hmm, I don't know, 3,000, 4,000 euros a month if they were owned by the secular state and rented out
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and whatnot? But they're not. They're Vatican properties. So the Vatican owns them, and those
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were typically given to the Cardinals. This has been a practice that's gone on probably for more
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than 100 years. But that all ended just recently, I think just last week, when the Pope said that
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the Cardinals will now be required to pay for those apartments at the regular going rate of whatever
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would be charged in the secular world, which basically means they're out on their ear. There's no way
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you can afford three or 4,000 euros rent per month if you're a retired Cardinal.
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But I'm sure if they go and see Pope Francis, he will make some kind of concession for them
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as long as they do his bidding. What a perfect way to be able to muzzle voices that you might
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disagree with and to make sure everybody sings from the same song sheet. Michael Haynes for
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LifeSite News coming up next on The John Hunter Weston Show. Stay tuned.
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Thank you very much, Sean Henry. Lovely to be with you.
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Let's begin as we always do with the sign of the cross.
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In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.
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So, Michael, we're really looking forward to you unpacking some of these things for us.
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One of the things that, to me, is really shocking is this new development with regard to the cardinals
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and their places of residence. What can you tell us about that?
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It is. It's very strange. Everything about it is incredibly peculiar, right down from the very
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beginning of it. It wasn't announced publicly with any great pomp or any great fanfare.
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It was just placed quietly in a courtyard inside the Vatican City State for the cardinals to discover
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as they walked past. There was no official announcement, no even courteous announcement,
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as you might expect from the Pope to the cardinals. So, very, very strange. Almost, it's in the sense that
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you'd try and do something like that if you were just trying to make sure it passed by and no one
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actually found out. So, that was published very, very quietly in the courtyard at Saint-Den-Massé
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courtyard. And as you've mentioned, the Pope is now asking the, what he's saying is the asking rate
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for the properties, which is going to be extortionate. Firstly, there's no mention of how the
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asking rate is going to be evaluated. Some of the properties are going to be completely inaccessible
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to those who wouldn't work in the Vatican because they're actually behind the barriers and the borders
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of the Vatican City State. So, if the cardinals can't afford to live in these apartments, then it's
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quite likely that these apartments are going to stay empty. And the Pope, therefore, is actually going to be
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losing money. He's, he's not going to be gaining the money that he supposedly is looking for. It, it's a very
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strange gesture. It seems to be, it seems to be oriented towards the manner in which Pope Francis governs
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the church, governs the Vatican in particular, and governs the Vatican very closely in a manner which is,
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which is trying to very much prevent any resistance from building up around him. Um, we've reported for a long
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time and, and life sites, Vatican sources have also corroborated to me recently that there is, there is a culture
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of, of fear within the Vatican that cardinals don't know who Pope Francis is going to turn to next. They don't know what he's
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going to take aim at next. And it seems at the moment, he is very much clamping down on the cardinals. Now,
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this also, it comes with extra, extra topics because the Vatican's finances are very much, um, in the focus
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at the moment. Um, but the, the money that the, the Pope is, you know, supposedly looking to save by, by this
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move, if it were completely above board, and if it were not, as you say, to be a move whereby to try and
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gain control over the cardinals. The actual money that he might pull in is minuscule in comparison
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with the money that the Vatican is hemorrhaging. I mean, reports suggest that the Vatican is some tens
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of millions in deficit. Uh, so he, the Pope is not going to be able to make tens of millions back from
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these cardinals. It, it's very much a move which seems to be oriented to one thing, and that, that's
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power. That's, that's making sure the cardinals know who is in charge, making sure that if they speak
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out of line, perhaps, or if they align themselves with any arguments, dare they be proposing Catholic
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teaching, or proposing Catholic tradition, or the ancient liturgy, then the Pope might be able to,
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to move against them and withdraw whatever, uh, whatever concessions he has, he has allowed them
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for the housing. You know, cardinals wear red. It's a sign of blood of martyrdom and of being willing
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to give yourself up for the faith. Who knew that the kind of white, white martyrdom, if you will,
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but it's still pretty severe, uh, might be coming for them even in their old age. This is going on,
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though, in a Vatican that is so very hypocritical. Um, a lot of people haven't heard about the Father
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Rubnik case. If you can go through that for us, just so that people understand where it's at.
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So, the Father Rubnik case really came to light not long before Christmas, a couple of weeks
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before Christmas. There were three Italian blogs which, uh, highlighted the case. So, Father Rubnik is a
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Jesuit and in the early 90s, he co-founded the Loyola community, a religious community of nuns.
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He co-founded that with a religious sister. Now, the allegations which were really brought to light
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just in December last year were that Father Rubnik actually spiritually and, pardon me, psychologically
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and sexually abused nuns, uh, now also former nuns of the community. Now, there were, there were two main
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instances. The one instance was that Father Rubnik had actually more recently absolved, uh, a sexual
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accomplice of his in confession, which incurs an automatic excommunication. And the CDF had, had gone
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through the procedure. There had been, uh, the trial. They had found that the allegation was credible. They then went
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through the trial. They found him guilty. And then the excommunication was lifted very, very quickly. Now,
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reports slightly differ. The, the Jesuits, uh, said in their official statement that Father Rubnik repented
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and therefore the excommunication was lifted. One of the, the news sites which broke the news of Father Rubnik case
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actually is very firmly stating that it was Pope Francis himself who intervened directly. And they say within hours,
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it's a direct quote, within hours, to lift the excommunication of this disgraced Father Rubnik. So
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that's, that's one instance. The, the other instance is also of the allegations. And when you read through
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the details of the abuse, which Father Rubnik is alleged to have committed, it, it is incredibly dark, um, very,
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very satanic. Um, some of the, the hardest content I've, I've read through and had to write on,
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has, has been related to Father Rubnik. Um, many of the, the nuns and the former nuns also who are
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making these allegations have provided very detailed testimony. Now, Father Rubnik has been under some
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restrictions, even prior to the news, uh, being made public just last year. Uh, once the news was made
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public, there was obviously very much, uh, a fewer more concentrated in the Italian-speaking news. It didn't
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make its way so much, uh, to the English-speaking news in, in England or America. But since then,
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the Jesuits have put out a call. They've asked for, uh, any more alleged victims of Father Rubnik to,
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to come forward. And just in that space, we're talking now of, you know, up to about three months,
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a further 15 people have come forward, 14 women and one man, uh, alleging that Father Rubnik has
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also abused them. Additionally, the, the style of abuse has now widened. So the abuse now includes,
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I believe, uh, spiritual, uh, abuse as well as psychological and sexual abuse. So Father Rubnik
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has been, he's been prohibited from taking part in public ministry, uh, as particularly public spiritual
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ministry involving, say, saying mass, saying confession. He's also now, even more recently,
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been restricted from his public artwork because Father Rubnik, particularly in Italy, is a very
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well-known name because his artwork adorns many of the shrines. It's, he's a very famous style of the,
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um, the conjoined eye, which we saw, um, on the, uh, Jubilee Year of Mercy, I believe the logo for that.
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And they had it up for World Youth Day as well, a different design of his. So very, very popular
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indeed. Absolutely. So the, uh, so Father Rubnik has been able to live still in Rome in the, the center
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he's directed here for the past 20 plus years. He has, uh, he has had these restrictions based upon
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them and yet still he's listed as a consultant on the Vatican's Dicastery for Divine Worship.
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Uh, until very recently, uh, a lot of his video reflections in the Gospel were still placed on
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YouTube. And even as recently as this Sunday, in the, the minor Basilica of Santa Prisade,
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which is, of course, just a stone's throw away in the shadows of St. Mary Majors, Father Rubnik
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was reportedly saying, uh, or concelebrating mass there this Sunday. Santa Prisade is, is a stunning old
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Basilica where the column on which our Lord was scourged is, is kept and venerated by Catholics.
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And yet Father Rubnik appears to be completely rejecting all the restrictions placed upon his
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ministry and no action is appearing to actually have an effect on him. And the excommunication,
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which was, which he incurred automatically and which the CDF confirmed has been, has been lifted very,
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very quickly. And likely right with, it had to be done with Pope Francis's approval. But, uh,
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if, as that magazine said, it was done within hours by Pope Francis, unbelievable. The hypocrisy there,
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since all this broke at the same time as what was going on with Father Frank Pavone, it was so scandalous.
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Uh, Father Frank was laicized, uh, on based on accusations, accusations, which were, which were
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investigated and he was found to be fine afterwards. So there's still a cloud under that. Father is not
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wearing a collar, not presenting himself as a priest, not celebrating mass. He's being very obedient.
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And, uh, yet this goes, this scandal grows like this, but, uh, it is, it is really stunning. And,
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uh, I, you know, I'm sorry, Michael, that you have to go through this. Know that you're doing a work,
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uh, that is, uh, for the good of the Lord's people. And I'm sure he will also protect you from
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all the horror that comes with having to read through that nonsense. One of the other things that took
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place, uh, just over this past week was around Cardinal Holerich. Tell us first of all about
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Cardinal Holerich. Who is he? So Cardinal Holerich is the, uh, the relative general of the current
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synod on synodality. Pope Francis is in many ways, you could say his pet project or the culmination of
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all the various synods, which he's had until now. So Cardinal Holerich has a very key role, uh,
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leading that. He's also, uh, plays a key role in leading the European bishops. Uh, now Cardinal Holerich
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has been a Vatican figure for many years. In fact, one of the very famous images of Pope Francis and
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the, and the Pacamama pagan idol in the Vatican in 2019, you can actually see Cardinal Holerich very
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prominently there on, on the side. Um, so he's always enjoyed, enjoyed quite a, a key role next to
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Pope Francis. But just in the last few days, Pope Francis actually named Cardinal Holerich to join
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the revamped, uh, Cardinal advisors, the famous so-called C9 because of its composition of nine
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Cardinals. Now Cardinal Holerich is perhaps one of the, the most prominent Cardinals in his lobbying for
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homosexuality, for LGBT ideology, completely in opposition to Catholic teaching. Uh, in fact,
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he's called the Catholic teaching on the homosexual acts, um, he's called that teaching false. He's,
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he's very, very much been open about his very clear, very, very, uh, prominent rejection of the
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Catholic teaching on these very crucial moral issues on which the Catholic Church needs to be teaching
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quite pronounced, uh, in a quite pronounced manner, I beg your pardon. But despite this, Pope Francis has
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seen fit to, uh, to move Cardinal Holerich to be one of his advisors. In, in many ways, Cardinal Marx,
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the German Cardinal Reinhard Marx, who is exiting that C9, um, has had his heterodoxy replaced by Cardinal
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Holerich. Uh, it seems that Cardinal Holerich is arguably much more openly heretical, one could say,
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in his pronouncements than Cardinal Marx. It also shows just how, uh, that the themes that we are
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seeing, and we should expect to see more in the Synod, on synodality as well, which has already been
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very, very open in its calls for more LGBT inclusion, uh, which seems to be an inclusion at the sacrifice of
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Catholic teaching on the Church's teaching on sexual morality and these issues.
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at give.lifesitenews.com. And now, back to the video.
00:18:56.840
There's another issue that I think a lot of people need the detail on, because I think
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there's been a lot of talk about it, but the specific details, just if you can summarize for us,
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what is going on with the Latin Mass? We've heard there's restrictions, there was, you know,
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trititionis custodis, then there was this re-script, um, what is going on? What's the status right now?
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This latest re-script, which we've had just in the last two weeks now, I believe, that's a re-script
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from Cardinal Arthur Roach, the Englishman who heads up the Vatican's congregation, now Dicastery
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for Divine Worship. So that is a re-script which has come from him, he's presented it to the Pope,
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and Pope Francis has signed off. And that seems to be the result of, not a debate, but ongoing
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correspondence between Cardinal Roach and American bishops over the past few months, which we only
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really learnt of in the last few weeks leading up to the issuing of this re-script. So Pope Francis's
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infamous trititionis custodis implemented, amongst many restrictions, it implemented the restriction
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that parish churches could not be used for the celebration of the traditional Mass, an attempt to
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to ghettoise the traditional Mass. Now, many American bishops have been employing, rightfully so,
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canon law to exempt their priests from this ruling, and exempt them from the ruling because they are
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arguing that this is harmful for the faith of the souls who they have under their care. Now, Cardinal Roach
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issued his own document a few months after the Popes in 2021, and since then he has been trying to
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essentially strong-arm bishops into accepting that they cannot exempt their priests from trititionis
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custodis. And what we see with this most recent re-script is the culmination of that. So Cardinal Roach
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has been arguing with these bishops, stating that I, Cardinal Roach, have the authority to remove your
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powers of exempting priests. And then he has essentially drawn up a document, gone to Pope Francis
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for support, and said, can you approve this? Pope Francis has done it. So now the bishops have been
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hamstrung because they've been employing canon law just to try and protect the souls under their care,
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and Cardinal Roach, supported by Pope Francis, has removed that. So even more so now, bishops are having to
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tread the very fine line between looking after the souls in their diocese who love the traditional mass,
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and not going so far as to result in Pope Francis, for some unknown reason, suddenly removing them from
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the diocese or getting into that extremely tricky canonical battle. Yes. Well, I think one of the things,
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we had some incredible interviews with Bishop Athanasius Schneider, who was very clear about the ability of
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proper actions of bishops to disobey these unjust orders coming from Pope Francis vis-a-vis the Mass of
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Ages, vis-a-vis the traditional mass. And perhaps the best way forward is to not mention it at all,
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just continue with business as usual. Very difficult times indeed. Are we still expecting
00:22:19.000
another document from Rome? Where is that? Because the rescript was not the document. You apparently got
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some more information on that document that was prepared or is being prepared. What's the status on
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that? Yes, absolutely. So the rescript was not the very severe rumoured document which we've been
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hearing increasingly about over the past few weeks. It appears from a number of reports that have been
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ongoing in the last few months and LifeSite's own sources, it does appear that this rumoured document
00:22:53.880
is indeed real. Now, the unknown, the major unknown factor is whether or not Pope Francis will actually
00:23:01.480
go ahead and release it. Some are of the opinion that, given this recent document attacking the traditional
00:23:08.040
mass, Pope Francis might just hold off and not issue it. Others are not quite of that opinion.
00:23:16.040
I think it's very clear in one sense what is quite likely, and I think that it's quite likely Pope Francis
00:23:24.040
could still issue this. We've seen his coordinated, relentless attack on the traditional mass. We've
00:23:30.280
also seen Cardinal Roach describe devotees of the traditional mass as Protestant, which is quite ironic
00:23:37.240
if you consider the saints, both clerical and lay saints, who died at the hands of Protestant
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persecutions whilst attending that traditional mass. I think when we see such a coordinated effort
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from those two figures against the traditional mass, it would not be surprising in any way if they
00:23:56.840
still were to release this rumoured document. And what is the date best guess for us on the
00:24:02.600
release of that document? It seems that a common date being mentioned is around Holy Week itself,
00:24:10.520
April the 3rd, is a date that's mentioned. The trouble is with Pope Francis, he is incredibly
00:24:17.480
unpredictable. So it's hard to know, but that is very much the date that recurs a lot in the reports
00:24:24.920
that are being issued about the document. Where does Holy Week fall this year in terms of the date?
00:24:30.120
I believe, I'd have to double check, but I believe April the 3rd would be the Monday of Holy Week,
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just as an Easter gift. Instead of announcing the joy of the resurrected Christ, the traditional
00:24:44.200
Catholics are living under this threat of will there be an Easter in the traditional rite? It is an
00:24:50.520
incredible time. It has forced Bishop Athanasius Snyder, other faithful bishops, to speak out more than ever.
00:24:58.360
However, we saw just with Cardinal McElroy's heresy in America, where again, pushing on the LGBT issue,
00:25:07.080
you know, Bishop Aquila, Bishop Nauman, Archbishop Nauman, had to, and Bishop Procky had to come out and
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call him out for heresy, quite literally. We saw that same thing this week with Bishop Athanasius
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Schneider. You had an amazing interview with him yourself a couple weeks ago, but just this week
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he was on again talking about the Synod on Synodality, also brought up the word heresy. What was that about?
00:25:36.840
So, Bishop Schneider was making his comments, as you say, in response to Cardinal McElroy's repeated
00:25:45.160
heretical articles. And Bishop Schneider made a very astute observation. He said that these cardinals and
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these bishops, they say these things because they know they can get away with it. It relates back to
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what we mentioned with Father Wilpnick. Those who feel that they have the protection of the Pope
00:26:02.360
seem to be able to get away with things. And very much the cardinals, if they wish to speak out,
00:26:09.080
as you say, there's the veiled threat, particularly for those in Rome. They, you know, will their
00:26:14.920
accommodation be removed or restricted in some way? But Bishop Schneider was very clear that these bishops,
00:26:21.960
these cardinals in particular, are speaking out because they know they won't get punished. And on
00:26:26.520
the contrary, they will be rewarded. They'll be promoted. Bishop McElroy himself, before he received
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the red hat and was elevated to the cardinal, his heterodoxy was incredibly well known, very well
00:26:39.960
documented. And yet, despite this, Pope Francis saw fit to raise him to the College of Cardinals.
00:26:45.240
Yeah, at this point, it becomes, is it despite this? Or is it because of this? I hate to say that,
00:26:51.320
but boy, things are certainly pointing in that direction.
00:26:55.080
Yeah, absolutely. It's, to speak out and proclaim the traditional faith, the faith of ages,
00:27:02.840
now it seems to, instead of being, leading to some sort of reward, or at least to some thanks
00:27:09.640
from the Pope for doing so in very anti-Catholic times, it seems that the person you're most likely
00:27:15.640
to be persecuted by is the Pope. That seems to be the situation in which we, we have arrived to.
00:27:22.200
The Vatican, though, does have its priorities. And one of the major priorities is climate change.
00:27:31.400
It does indeed. It very much has a priority given to climate change. This has been one of the very,
00:27:39.160
very prominent and consistent themes in Pope Francis's pontificate. We saw, most recently,
00:27:46.120
the Dicastery for Integral Human Development, which Pope Francis established in 2017, I believe,
00:27:52.920
they partnered with a Swedish environmental institute to issue action plans, if you will,
00:28:00.840
on climate change. Now, the Vatican officially joined the very pro-abortion, pro-contraception
00:28:09.000
Paris climate change agreement last year. And now, with this new initiative, it's actually,
00:28:14.120
the Vatican is going to be printing off 500,000 booklets, which it's produced in partnership with
00:28:21.320
the Environmental Institute. And it's going to send these booklets to parishes across the world.
00:28:26.680
And so, instead of highlighting issues such as the need to defend unborn life, the need to promote
00:28:33.240
chastity, the traditional marriage and the family, the Vatican is asking priests, Catholic priests,
00:28:40.200
around the world to attend to protecting the oceans, to listening to the cry of the earth,
00:28:47.000
and to listening to how sustainability and social justice work in cohesion and are the priorities
00:28:56.040
which we apparently must attend to today. As you see, it's quite striking to see
00:29:01.080
where the priorities lie and what resources are given to what particular topics. And it seems that
00:29:08.920
this, the climate is the supposed agenda of climate change is more important than unborn life or the
00:29:17.400
church's teaching. Indeed. In fact, it's been very consistent though. Pope Francis wrote on climate change
00:29:25.880
when we had massive disasters on earth and traditional bishops would have talked about how
00:29:31.800
you know, our sins have caused God to be angry with us. We must make reparation. Pope Francis was
00:29:38.600
talking about how, you know, we have offended Mother Earth and she's rebelling against us. So,
00:29:46.280
yeah, very consistent indeed. Michael, any final thoughts for us on things going on in Rome that
00:29:51.960
you wanted to mention? I think a note of encouragement perhaps, just reiterating what
00:29:58.840
Bishop Schneider said to me in the interview you mentioned. Bishop Schneider, he's very aware of all
00:30:04.360
the terrible confusion and the tumult going on in the church. And he recommended that one of the best
00:30:11.640
ways we can fight back against this and preserve the faith is really to study the faith ourselves, to
00:30:18.200
to turn to the old tried and tested books, the manuals of the faith. And also, I think, as you
00:30:24.920
mentioned, we should prepare ourselves to have a more persecuted life as Catholics, to be underground
00:30:32.680
in a time and to prepare ourselves spiritually for that by reading and by praying and by turning to God,
00:30:39.240
and really to listening to the teachings of tradition and to leave aside everything else.
00:30:45.800
And on that front, you know, getting back to the Catechism of the Council of Trent,
00:30:52.040
and that was really expounded in a simple form in the Baltimore Catechisms in America,
00:30:57.480
what was the equivalent of that in England? It was a Penny Catechism, was it?
00:31:01.240
We had the Penny Catechism. The Baltimore Catechism actually made its way across the ocean as well.
00:31:09.400
Yeah. And Bishop Schneider, when he spoke with me, because I asked him about that, it was very,
00:31:15.560
we're living in such strange times. No one has a manual for you on underground masses and how that
00:31:22.520
looks like. But it's already being done. Certain places have already got masses in people's homes,
00:31:31.560
because certain dioceses have already totally cut them off. Just this week, I think we saw
00:31:37.560
two dioceses completely cut off the Latin Mass. Do you happen to know where they are offhand?
00:31:41.880
I think maybe even three. There are a couple, two dioceses in England, which have implemented
00:31:48.760
restrictions or not sought permission to continue the Mass. And also the Diocese of Albany over across
00:31:55.400
the pond as well. And also, most recently, the traditional Mass on campus at the Franciscan
00:32:03.560
University of Steubenville. The news has just broken in the last day or so about that being
00:32:10.680
No, it's a direct attack, even on young Catholics. A lot of these churches were booming with young
00:32:20.360
families. I know that my son attends one where he's at in university. And he just brought a friend
00:32:28.680
the other day. And his friend was astounded at the number of young people. But the one good thing is,
00:32:35.880
as Bishop Schneider says, we have to make ourselves ready to live in times of persecution. And it's the
00:32:44.120
young who take up challenges like that. Young people just like you, Michael.
00:32:50.520
And I think that explains the growth of the traditional Mass, in a sense, because there is
00:32:55.320
a challenge. The Catholic faith in its fullness offers a challenge because it's not an easy life.
00:33:01.640
You can't go out and do whatever you wish, but it presents a challenge. And people respond to a
00:33:07.480
challenge that we thrive off having ideals, having firm resolves to live our lives by, and having
00:33:16.280
the Catholic faith to live our lives by. Michael Haynes, thank you so much for being with us.
00:33:21.240
And thank you for your faithfulness and faithful reporting from Rome.
00:33:26.680
Thank you very much, John Henry. Lovely to be with you today.
00:33:29.160
God bless you, Michael, and God bless all of you. And we'll see you next time.
00:33:44.600
Hi, everyone. This is John Henry Weston. We hope you enjoyed this program. To see more
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