The John-Henry Westen Show - Pope Francis and the attempt to destroy the crown jewel of Pope JPII's legacy

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome to this episode of the John Henry Weston Show, where we will be discussing

00:00:04.800 one of the most significant pushbacks to Pope Francis we've seen since the beginning of

00:00:09.880 the pontificate, one where it appears Pope Emeritus Benedict himself is also involved.

00:00:15.880 Stay tuned.

00:00:22.800 Let's begin, as we always do, with the sign of the cross.

00:00:25.620 In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

00:00:28.680 Amen.

00:00:30.000 On this show, we have discussed numerous confusions coming from the Vatican and even

00:00:35.200 from the Pope himself.

00:00:37.300 Degrading the importance of pro-life issues vis-a-vis immigration inside a papal document.

00:00:43.640 The Pope's embracing of homosexual couples rather than lovingly calling them to conversion.

00:00:48.860 Papal permission for communion for divorced and remarried couples.

00:00:52.840 Papal permission for communion for Protestants.

00:00:55.240 Pope Francis' allowance for contraception in grave circumstances such as Zika virus.

00:01:00.440 His change of the catechism on the death penalty.

00:01:03.420 And much more.

00:01:04.720 But there's a new development that has awakened more pushback than we've ever seen before.

00:01:10.120 And that is the attempted destruction of what has been called the crown jewel in the legacy

00:01:15.160 of Pope St. John Paul II, the John Paul II Institute for Marriage and the Family.

00:01:20.280 And that's why today, it gives me great pleasure to introduce you to LifeSite's Rome correspondent,

00:01:26.760 Diane Montagna, who is covering all these issues from the ground.

00:01:30.880 Diane is a veteran Rome correspondent, having worked for the Vatican as a translator, and

00:01:35.920 then for Alatea before coming to LifeSite.

00:01:39.200 Diane, welcome to the program.

00:01:40.740 Thank you, John Henry.

00:01:43.240 It's good to be with you.

00:01:44.820 So, Diane, since you're there on the ground in Rome, can you give us, first of all, a

00:01:49.660 little bit of the background of this case, and perhaps also the sequential ordering of

00:01:53.620 how this took place?

00:01:55.900 Sure, John Henry.

00:01:57.180 So, this all began in 2017, September of 2017.

00:02:02.320 It's important for the viewers to know that this was just days, literally days after Cardinal

00:02:08.920 Kefara, who was the cardinal whom Pope John Paul II asked to found the original John Paul

00:02:17.480 II Institute.

00:02:18.840 So, this is in September.

00:02:20.220 Cardinal Kefara had just died.

00:02:22.020 He actually hadn't, they hadn't had his funeral yet, and so people were still mourning.

00:02:29.820 Pope Francis issued a moda propria, effectively, juridically suppressing the John Paul II Institute.

00:02:38.920 And replacing it with a new institute, in light of the two family synods that had just

00:02:46.040 occurred, and also in light of Mores Laetitia.

00:02:50.020 Okay.

00:02:50.460 The Holy Father, yes.

00:02:52.480 So, you were saying he issued a moda propria.

00:02:56.100 What is a moda propria?

00:02:57.760 Right.

00:02:59.120 Well, a moda propria, this would be, this moda propria was in the form of an apostolic letter,

00:03:04.380 a moda propria.

00:03:05.500 So, that means that the Pope personally issues this edict or decree to the Church, or to a

00:03:11.760 particular part of the Church.

00:03:13.180 Okay.

00:03:13.860 So, that basically, while the sort of founding president has just died, before he's even

00:03:21.100 buried, the Pope issues a personal document, basically getting rid of this institute.

00:03:28.740 Is that a sort of accurate reflection?

00:03:33.020 I think that's, I mean, that's what, that's what the facts bear out.

00:03:36.740 Okay.

00:03:37.040 And what was interesting also about the moda propria, in terms of the rationale for founding

00:03:43.120 the new institute, the document says that in light of anthropological and cultural changes,

00:03:50.360 it's necessary to, not necessarily leave behind, but in part leave behind former ways,

00:03:58.400 former models of pastoral ministry and pastoral mission.

00:04:02.940 What's interesting for the viewers to know about that, because not everyone is familiar

00:04:08.500 in detail with the John Paul II Institute.

00:04:11.860 What's interesting is that it was already very, very interdisciplinary, and it drew on

00:04:18.060 some of the best faculty from various disciplines, from psychology, from the medical community,

00:04:25.100 theology, philosophy, etc.

00:04:27.560 So, the idea that somehow a new institute needed to be founded in order to expand the mission

00:04:38.940 of the JP2 Institute is a little bit odd.

00:04:43.980 And this also came at a time when the institute was actually very, very fruitful.

00:04:49.720 I mean, this wasn't just as good as it is, you know, it wasn't just young students fresh

00:04:54.800 out of university who were going to the JP2 Institute.

00:04:57.720 You also had doctors, lawyers, psychologists, that is, people who already had a professional

00:05:05.060 career, who studied the JP2 in order to better serve families.

00:05:12.720 So, that was the original genesis, was the moda propria in September of 2017.

00:05:18.880 Amazing.

00:05:19.960 And so, this is basically a reformulation of something.

00:05:24.080 While the founding president has just died, the professors are kind of mourning his death,

00:05:29.420 and then it's sort of dismantled under their noses before even they've buried Cardinal

00:05:35.620 Kafara.

00:05:37.000 That all by itself is unbelievable.

00:05:39.620 But then you're saying that they've gone from addressing what, in the words of, you know,

00:05:48.080 Cardinal Kafara, and I'm sure you'll get to this at some point, but, you know, with some

00:05:51.740 of the most important questions on life and family today, taken from, I would presume,

00:05:56.340 things like Familiaris Consortio of John Paul II and things, and then switching them over

00:06:00.960 to regarding, as you said, Amoris de Tizia.

00:06:04.900 Yes, well, I probably, those who, those who are carrying this out would not say that they're

00:06:13.820 necessarily leaving behind, say, foundational documents that JP2 left us with, whether it's

00:06:20.600 Familiaris Consortio or Veritati Splendor, that was his document, his encyclical on the

00:06:27.300 moral life, whereas Familiaris Consortio was the document on family life.

00:06:31.920 They would, they probably would not argue that they were leaving these behind, but that

00:06:36.840 Amoris Laetitia and the new mission of the new institute was in continuity with what had

00:06:44.480 gone before.

00:06:45.300 That would generally, I think, be, be their argument.

00:06:48.240 But that in light of these anthropological and cultural changes, we need to expand their

00:06:53.080 vision even more.

00:06:54.060 So I think that would probably be the way that they would, they would argue that.

00:06:59.820 We might go back to an important element in terms of the moda propria was that it decreed

00:07:07.400 that new statutes needed to be drawn up for the new institute.

00:07:11.480 And that's where the crux of, of what we've seen this summer comes.

00:07:15.980 Uh, so that was the, the moda propria was issued in September, 2017 in terms of the timeline events,

00:07:23.980 this would have to deal with, you know, the, the, the, the, the Rome Institute, um, and it

00:07:30.840 would, it would reflect, uh, what was going on in terms of the, the professors and the new

00:07:37.480 chancellor and the new president, um, and in the development of those statutes.

00:07:42.340 The new chancellor, of course, that, uh, who was appointed by Pope Francis was Archbishop

00:07:47.920 Vincenzo Paglia and the, the new president was Pire Angelo, Monsignor Pire Angelo Sequeri.

00:07:56.300 Uh, so these two men, the following June, this would be June, 2018, uh, they met with all

00:08:02.480 of the professors and they, um, the president, Sequeri, he presented to, at, at the, at the

00:08:11.300 order of, of Archbishop Paglia, he presented to the faculty, including the tenured faculty,

00:08:16.920 new statutes.

00:08:18.140 Now these new statutes, um, according to sources would have immediately necessitated that all

00:08:25.660 of the professors, uh, were suspended.

00:08:28.880 This happens in June, 2018.

00:08:31.820 The professors respectfully, but forcefully protested this and they petitioned both Archbishop Paglia,

00:08:39.780 as well as Monsignor Sequeri, uh, to be involved in the formulation of the new statutes.

00:08:46.600 And they wanted them to be in continuity with those statutes, which, with which John Paul,

00:08:51.940 the second had originally established the JP two, if you segue, so that's in June, 2018,

00:08:58.900 you segue to, uh, the next year we're in now 2000, 2019 those proposals, I believe it may

00:09:07.700 have been at the end of March, um, that I date, I would need to check.

00:09:13.100 But the point is, is then in the spring, um, uh, the professors along with Sequeri,

00:09:20.260 President Sequeri, um, uh, submitted new statutes that they had worked on jointly.

00:09:29.140 They submitted them to Archbishop Paglia.

00:09:31.140 Now Archbishop Paglia, along this time, he had been formed step by step that the, that

00:09:37.140 the faculty, the tenured professors, along with President Sequeri were reformulating these statutes.

00:09:43.380 Um, they were turned in and I believe it was March.

00:09:47.620 Um, and then interestingly already, uh, what was happening in February and March that the courses,

00:09:55.300 because naturally this is an academic institution, the courses for the following academic year need

00:10:00.500 to be, um, need to be determined.

00:10:02.820 So they had already, uh, requested of the, the professors, all of the professors to, um, submit their proposals

00:10:10.980 for courses for the following academic year, that is 2019, 2020.

00:10:16.260 So the academic year that we're just about to enter into now, those courses were submitted and actually

00:10:22.900 the new curriculum, well, curriculum, the new, um, the new, uh, list of courses was already approved,

00:10:31.380 uh, later in the spring.

00:10:33.140 So the professors knew what courses that they were going to be teaching for the, for the fall,

00:10:38.660 for this new academic year.

00:10:40.100 And students in June that these, this is all public, it's all online.

00:10:44.020 Uh, and the students were able to register for courses for the new academic year.

00:10:49.780 At the same time, these statutes had, that they were working on together had been given to Archbishop

00:10:57.140 Paglia and the professors didn't really hear anything more.

00:11:00.500 Uh, now segue to last month to, it was July 18th.

00:11:06.340 And the professors learned about the new statutes, um, that they had been approved by

00:11:12.580 the Congregation for Education through Archbishop Paglia.

00:11:16.180 They only learned about it from the Observatory Romanov.

00:11:18.980 That's the, the official or semi-official Vatican newspaper.

00:11:23.060 They didn't, and those statutes were not even really, they weren't published in full at that time.

00:11:27.700 It was, the news was just put out that the statutes were approved.

00:11:31.380 So actually all of the tenured professors and the other professors who have been teaching at the JP2

00:11:36.820 Institute, they only found out about that new statutes had been, um, approved through the media.

00:11:43.700 Wow.

00:11:44.580 A couple of days later, all of the professors, um, received, um, a letter saying that they were

00:11:52.340 suspended, um, and, you know, subject to their reappointment in the autumn.

00:11:57.540 Um, and then one or two days later, it was, um, uh, where, and this is where a lot of the controversy is,

00:12:05.700 is Monsignor Molina, who had served as the president of the Institute from 2006 to, I believe, 2016.

00:12:13.940 He held the chair of, uh, fundamental moral theology.

00:12:17.700 He, along with Father Jose Noriega, who had the chair of specific moral theology,

00:12:24.500 and was a key person at the JP2, they both received letters saying that they were dismissed,

00:12:30.100 that their chairs were eliminated from the new statute, so no more chair of fundamental moral theology,

00:12:35.940 as well as no more course of fundamental moral theology, which is quite unbelievable at the JP2

00:12:42.500 Institute, that they would have no actual course on fundamental moral theology.

00:12:47.460 Also, the chair of, uh, Professor, um, Noriega had been eliminated, and his courses had been eliminated.

00:12:54.180 So, you know, in the beginning, to say, um, people were taking issue with saying that these

00:12:59.860 professors had been fired.

00:13:01.380 Okay, well, technically, maybe they hadn't been fired, um, but they were certainly dismissed.

00:13:07.780 Yeah.

00:13:08.180 Um, and their positions were removed.

00:13:10.180 Yeah.

00:13:10.660 Uh, and then a couple of days later, people like Professor Stanislaw Griegel, who was a personal

00:13:15.940 and great friend of Pope John Paul II, um, he held a chair, uh, also at the, uh, at the Institute.

00:13:23.780 And while that chair, I believe, still remains, um, his courses, which, you know,

00:13:29.220 uh, mindful of what, uh, we just said a few minutes ago, the course listing for the new

00:13:35.540 academic year had already been approved. And now they were told that in light of these changes,

00:13:42.100 basically your course won't be offered anymore. And so, um, we'll, we appreciate your work.

00:13:49.060 We'll think about it for the future, but in effect, it's a dismissal.

00:13:52.900 Wow. So just to recap, to recap, this, this sounds so unbelievable. It's, it's hard to actually

00:14:00.020 imagine. You said that Pope Francis appointed as chancellor of this newly revised Institute,

00:14:08.580 if you will, uh, Archbishop Paglia. Isn't that the same Archbishop Paglia who was so controversial,

00:14:15.940 uh, back before he even came to Rome, he was the, uh, Archbishop in Terny and he did that,

00:14:21.060 uh, horrific mural inside the cathedral there in Terny, which was of our Lord lifting up two

00:14:27.700 sort of nets of, uh, men and women, nude who were homosexual and all sorts of things. And 0.50

00:14:32.660 he's in there too, nude embracing a nude man. Um, he was then brought into Rome and the head of the

00:14:39.860 Pontifical Council for the Family. And they introduced at World Youth Day Poland, this horrific,

00:14:45.860 um, sex ed program that was explicit and created all sorts of uproar in Poland. The same man was

00:14:51.940 then put in charge of the, this is Archbishop Paglia again, put in charge of the Pontifical Academy for

00:14:57.300 Life and, uh, reformed the whole thing, kicking out again, doing a very similar thing to what we hear

00:15:03.700 here, um, with the, the Institute sort of getting rid of everybody and then bringing back only some and

00:15:10.820 getting rid of the most faithful members and then inviting some, uh, actually pro-abortion and,

00:15:16.260 and pro-euthanasia members to the Pontifical Academy for Life. And it's the same guy Pope Francis

00:15:21.860 puts now in charge of the Institute and he seems to be doing a very similar thing.

00:15:27.540 Yeah. Well, and you know, in addition to everything that you've just said, John Henry,

00:15:32.020 there's also the fact that, um, Archbishop Paglia doesn't even have a doctorate. And according to these

00:15:38.180 new statutes, he was, it gave him a great deal of power over the hiring and firing of new professors.

00:15:45.060 Now, one would hope that a chancellor of an institute would actually be a high level academic who could,

00:15:50.900 you know, understand the intricacies of academic life and even the basics. Uh, but it seems in this

00:15:56.420 case that was all set aside. Um, yes. So, but the, the, the thing about Archbishop Paglia too,

00:16:03.460 yes, he's, he's chancellor, but Archbishop Paglia cannot, he could not have accomplished this on his

00:16:11.060 own. Uh, the Congregation for Education approved the new statute. So, certainly there are questions,

00:16:17.940 um, that, uh, remain there. Uh, there's also the, probably the, one of the main questions and that,

00:16:26.740 what is the role that Pope Francis played in this. So far, he's been silent, um, uh, amid a lot, a lot of

00:16:35.460 the, the criticism, um, that came after, after this erupted in July. Archbishop Paglia as secretary,

00:16:44.500 um, this came out through the Catholic Herald. Um, he told the Catholic Herald that, uh, they were going

00:16:50.180 to take the month of August in order to prepare, uh, answers and the response to all of the criticism,

00:16:56.260 um, and questions that they've gotten. One would have thought that, you know, to do something this

00:17:02.100 big, they would have, they would have known, uh, that there was going to be a fallout from it and

00:17:06.660 would have already been prepared. Um, but we'll, we'll see, we'll see what they come up with and how

00:17:12.980 they respond in September. It is important though, for the viewers to know, you know, just in terms of the

00:17:18.020 way that things work in Rome that, you know, Archbishop Paglia had these, had these statutes

00:17:24.580 approved in July. July is generally the month, it's one of the hottest months of the year.

00:17:30.500 Uh, the, the Holy Father would traditionally go on vacation, uh, during that month. So it's a very,

00:17:36.180 it's really a low time, not a time when you, um, when you, um, uh, would do something like this

00:17:43.140 normally. So yes. Right. And, and what, one of the things you mentioned earlier was about

00:17:48.660 how at this time already, when, when this becomes clear, the students have already chosen their

00:17:54.660 courses. People are expecting to go into this next calendar school year, uh, with, with, you know,

00:18:00.900 their courses chosen, their profs chosen, and then it's all turned around. We have, uh, with us today

00:18:06.260 also, uh, one of the former students or one of the current actually, uh, doing his thesis at the,

00:18:13.380 at the Institute, uh, who was all set to go and ready. And now his professor has been dismissed.

00:18:18.580 We're going to just hear from now, Brian Lima's people would ask me what was, what was the kind

00:18:23.700 of environment and the JP two over those two years before, obviously now these, these, uh, statutes

00:18:29.140 have been, have been approved to where my, now my thesis director has been dismissed. Um,

00:18:34.820 um, and, and, and honestly, it was, if you've seen the Titanic, uh, there's a classic scene of

00:18:40.580 the orchestra saying one last time to play and they're, they're playing as they go down. Um,

00:18:45.780 you know, and, and, and honestly, it was one of the most tragic events of seeing

00:18:49.620 Karno Kofaro, you know, uh, the, the role that he played in his Institute, um, the rock of that. And,

00:18:55.860 um, and then slowly seeing the deterioration from within of the, the true legacy that John Paul,

00:19:02.260 St. John Paul II has left for all of us to be there. Um, and to be a part of the last class

00:19:08.020 that got to receive the formation from these dismissed professors. Um, what an honor, but

00:19:13.780 also what a responsibility. Um, Diane, let me, let me go back for a second to, to what you said there.

00:19:19.540 Um, we were talking about Archbishop Paglia and how he, when he was the, uh, as he was head of the

00:19:27.940 Academy for life, the Pontifical Academy for life. And he did a very similar thing to what he's done

00:19:33.140 here with the John Paul II Institute. He sort of fired everyone or got rid of everyone and brought

00:19:38.900 back some of the people leaving out the, those actually who are closest to John Paul II, but also

00:19:45.060 brought in some new people into the Academy for life who were exactly the opposite of what you'd expect.

00:19:51.300 People who were actually pro abortion, pro euthanasia, unbelievable stuff. And you've reported

00:19:56.980 that, uh, Paglia and part of the Institute now, um, has done something quite similar to what he did

00:20:04.020 with the Academy for life. What was that?

00:20:05.540 Yeah, it's John Henry. So we reported this came out, um, uh, not long after, um, the, the news of the

00:20:13.540 dismissals of Monsignor Molina, um, Father Noriega and the suspension of all of the professors. Um,

00:20:22.420 we then heard, we confirmed it, uh, with several very, uh, good and informed sources in Rome that, uh,

00:20:30.420 Archbishop Paglia, uh, and, uh, President Sequeri, uh, were, uh, had invited, uh, Father Maurizio

00:20:40.100 Chiodi to teach at the new Institute. Now that appointment has not been made official yet,

00:20:47.780 uh, but the invitation was, was given. Now readers will remember, um, Father Maurizio Chiodi, uh, from

00:20:56.020 the, the, uh, 50th anniversary year of Humanae Vitae. Uh, and as you mentioned, John Henry, Father,

00:21:02.580 Father Chiodi, he's actually one of the new members of the Pontifical Academy for life.

00:21:07.220 Um, but during the 50th anniversary year of Humanae Vitae, one of the Pontifical Universities in Rome

00:21:14.500 sponsored a lecture series, um, uh, for the, for the anniversary. And they featured in December of

00:21:22.180 that year, um, a lecture by Father Chiodi. Now at that lecture, um, I was in attendance, um,

00:21:28.660 um, uh, we translated, um, and published, um, his lecture in full on LifeSite News. Uh, Father Chiodi

00:21:36.580 argued on the basis of chapter eight of Amores Laetitia, that under, under certain circumstances,

00:21:42.660 um, responsible parenthood might actually require and certainly justify couples, uh, to use contraception,

00:21:52.100 which of course is, you know, completely against both the letter and spirit of Humanae Vitae. Um,

00:21:59.140 so this same Father Chiodi is now being, uh, was now invited to teach at the new JP2 Institute.

00:22:06.980 Uh, to add to all of this, uh, just after we heard the news about the dismissals, um, Father Chiodi

00:22:13.460 was featured in an interview with Luciano Moya. He's a, uh, a journalist for Avenire. Avenire, um,

00:22:21.940 readers may know is the, uh, the, it's the official newspaper of the Italian bishops.

00:22:27.940 This time the, the, uh, the interview was on homosexuality and the church's stance,

00:22:34.900 pastoral stance towards, uh, people with same-sex attraction, although this interview termed them

00:22:41.700 homosexuals. Um, and certainly, certainly the, the, the church, uh, seeks to bring everyone to Christ.

00:22:50.260 Um, so, you know, that being said, in this interview, Father Chiodi argued, um, on, he argued that

00:22:59.140 it could be good in certain circumstances for a person with same-sex attraction who is actively

00:23:05.620 involved in a homosexual relationship to continue and to be faithful, let's say, to that relationship,

00:23:14.420 that that could actually be good for the human person. Now that too is really against, uh, what

00:23:19.860 the church would see just in terms of her understanding of the human person, in terms of virtue, and in terms

00:23:25.620 of sin. Um, so that, that, that interview with Father Chiodi was featured just days after we heard the,

00:23:33.860 the news about the dismissals of, um, of the professors from the JP2. Um, so if Father Chiodi

00:23:41.700 is an example of the kind of the professor, uh, and the kind of expansion, uh, that they're looking

00:23:48.420 for at the new JP2 Institute, uh, it doesn't bode well. No. Well, let's, let's hear from Brian again.

00:23:55.460 Brian, who, uh, was a student at the JP2, uh, was, uh, talked to me about how, uh, you know, this,

00:24:04.180 the kernel or the heart, if you will, of the JP2 Institute was really to defend the teaching,

00:24:09.700 uh, laid out in Humanae Vitae. And as, uh, he's described it, it is sort of, uh, the crown jewel

00:24:16.340 of the legacy of John Paul II. And it's really being undone here with the bringing in of these 1.00

00:24:21.860 professors. But now the motu propria in these statutes totally makes sense because if the whole

00:24:26.900 purpose of the Institute was to defend the teachings of Humanae Vitae, which is obviously

00:24:31.060 so foundational to the integral vision of the person and, and who we are as man,

00:24:36.980 woman, the definitive understandings of all these, of all these teachings,

00:24:41.940 then it totally makes sense to replace with the Moritz Eteza, which is littered with so many errors.

00:24:46.500 It's littered with, with, with, with so many theological misambiguities, you know, and,

00:24:53.380 and that's now the foundation of Francis's Institute for Marriage and Family.

00:24:57.940 So let's go back to Diane Montagna now in Rome. Um, what is happening right now? Uh, is it true

00:25:06.180 now that basically, uh, this whole legacy of John Paul II in terms of the John Paul II Institute

00:25:10.980 for Marriage and Family is now dead and gone? Is it a done deal? Is there any pushback? What's

00:25:15.460 actually happening? Yes, well, that's a very good question, John Henry. And I think it remains to be

00:25:20.820 seen, you know, following the dismissals of the, uh, of the, of the professors, um, and the suspension

00:25:27.620 of all of the professors. We saw a, um, a considerable pushback, uh, both on the part of students and

00:25:35.380 former students, alumni of the Institute, as well as, um, a growing number of academics in the wider

00:25:41.940 academic world. Over 250 students and alumni wrote a letter to President Saqueri and to Archbishop

00:25:50.020 Paglia, uh, with their concerns about it. And, you know, we have to keep in mind that many of

00:25:54.740 these students, especially those students who have, uh, begun the license program, uh, the doctoral

00:26:00.420 program, um, many of them are left not knowing their, their, their directors have been dismissed.

00:26:07.300 Uh, they really don't, their course listings have been changed and we're already in August and the

00:26:12.740 academic year is in, in, enrollment begins later. The academic year generally begins around October,

00:26:18.980 but they're really left in the lurch, um, regarding this. Uh, academics have also protested. We had,

00:26:25.860 um, 49 academics. Now these, all of these academics, what they held in common

00:26:31.620 was they had all contributed to a new dictionary on, I won't get the exact title, uh, but it was on

00:26:38.180 human love, sexuality, fecundity that had been published in Italian. It was, uh, published by

00:26:44.020 Cantagalli, um, and I think was to be expected also in other languages. All of those professors

00:26:50.260 who had contributed to this dictionary, and it's important to remember about this dictionary,

00:26:55.300 that the key editor of it, um, and a lot of the publications at the JP II Institute was Father

00:27:01.860 Noriega. Father Noriega was dismissed from the Institute, as I said before, in part because his chair

00:27:09.700 was eliminated. But another rationale, uh, that was given for his dismissal, that he's also the, uh,

00:27:16.180 the superior of a religious community. And according to the new statutes or according to law, that's not,

00:27:22.980 that's not, that's not allowed. Now he had been teaching there since May, perhaps 2008, might not

00:27:29.300 have that date exactly right, but he had been teaching there for a long time. And certainly there are other,

00:27:34.100 um, there are other people who teach at the JP II Institute who hold other careers and have other obligations.

00:27:41.380 Um, but to go back to the, the, the letter, this letter came from 49 academics who had all contributed

00:27:49.540 to this new dictionary, uh, that was very, uh, very, um, very thorough, uh, to carry on the teaching of the church

00:27:57.220 and to be a real resource for people. Uh, so in terms of what's going to happen, um, you know, it's,

00:28:03.780 again, it's, it's summertime in Rome and this was done at a low time. Uh, we have had, um, following a

00:28:12.660 lot of criticism, following some of these initiatives, uh, we had, uh, Archbishop Paglia's secretary

00:28:19.620 come out, uh, and he spoke to the Catholic Herald and said that they were going to take some weeks

00:28:24.660 during August in order to formulate a response to some of the criticisms. One would have thought

00:28:30.660 that to do something this monumental, uh, for something so important and so fruitful in the

00:28:36.100 church as the JP II Institute, that they would have already had a rationale prepared. Uh, so we'll see,

00:28:42.420 we'll wait and see what happens in September. But I, I have it from good sources that there are other

00:28:48.420 initiatives in the works. And, uh, I mean, some observers have said that, um, they very much want

00:28:55.060 the story to die down in the media, but I don't expect that's going to happen. No, certainly not

00:29:00.580 at LifeSite News. In part, in part, if I make it, yes, in part because, um, as I believe it was noted

00:29:07.380 in the letter of the 49 academics, you two, the, the academic world, as I believe Janet Smith said in your,

00:29:14.260 in your, in one of your last episodes, you know, this is not the way that the academic world works.

00:29:20.340 Um, and these are scholars, these are professionals. They've invested a lot of their lives in much of

00:29:26.980 their lives into this. Um, so, and this does not, it looks bad for the Catholic church, uh, to the rest

00:29:34.900 and to the wider academic community. And also in terms of the, the consequences of what this means for

00:29:42.500 the church and for, uh, Catholic academics. Is it now the case that if you're not willing to go beyond

00:29:50.420 what the tradition says about new documents that are coming out from the Vatican, that you'll be

00:29:56.100 punished or that you might lose your position at your Catholic university? Uh, what will it mean for

00:30:01.460 seminaries? Uh, so there are a lot of, um, there are a lot of questions to be answered. And a lot of this

00:30:07.300 story goes beyond the JP2 Institute itself as important, uh, uh, as important as that is.

00:30:13.940 Absolutely. I think one of the things we have to remember is that, you know, with these students

00:30:19.540 who are protesting publicly, they've already invested, as you said, much of their money, time,

00:30:26.180 livelihood. This is their future that they're putting on the line for this. These professors,

00:30:30.660 some of them are at pontifical universities or Catholic universities where they are perhaps themselves in

00:30:35.860 danger, especially ones not tenured yet. So, they're investing a lot in daring to protest

00:30:41.220 against this. We've heard many, uh, of them who are priests who might also be in, in trouble,

00:30:46.180 in trouble, if you will, uh, from their bishops because it appears what's happening is, is quite ruthless.

00:30:52.260 It was, uh, Professor Molina, I believe, in one of the articles, uh, where he described how in the,

00:30:57.620 in the olden days, if you will, when there were, uh, professors at Catholic universities who really did

00:31:03.140 oppose not only the, the, the papal or Vatican teaching, but, but all, all of tradition,

00:31:08.180 they were given an opportunity for redress and there had to be a case before they were dismissed.

00:31:14.100 Yet here, these faithful professors who were trying to sort of interpret Pope Francis in a way that's

00:31:21.700 sort of in line with Catholic tradition are immediately dismissed as if, you know, there, there's,

00:31:27.780 there's no ability to try and interpret, uh, Amoris Laetitia, let's say, in a Catholic-sounding

00:31:34.980 way. No, you have to go with this sort of stamped interpretation that it appears, at least from what

00:31:41.940 Pope Francis has said and done with regard to stamping it in the Acta Apostoli Que Seris,

00:31:47.060 as we mentioned at the top of the program, uh, needs to be the only interpretation. In fact, that's what he

00:31:52.740 said, uh, Pope Francis, that is, said it, it was the only interpretation and it appears here that these, uh,

00:31:59.860 these professors are being dismissed without any chance for redress, um, whereas even in the past with

00:32:05.860 those professors who were really off the page in terms of Catholic thought, they were given much, much

00:32:10.740 more leeway to argue their cases before they were dismissal. Yes, that's what, uh, that was the point that

00:32:16.500 Monsignor Molina made in the first interview that he gave to the Italian press that we then published in full.

00:32:23.220 He looked back at many of the, many people, many professors who openly, um, who openly went against

00:32:30.580 the Church's teaching, and at least in that case, they were given a process by the Congregation for

00:32:35.620 the Doctrine of the Faith, they were given an opportunity to, to respond to concerns, but in this

00:32:42.580 case, they are being punished, it seems, and what seems to have been revealed, they're being punished for

00:32:49.140 interpreting, uh, Amores Laetitia in line with the Church's tradition. Um, so, yes, it's really quite

00:32:57.300 serious, and again, uh, this has wider consequences for Catholic academic communities, uh, potentially for

00:33:05.300 seminaries and for the Church. Absolutely. And it appears we've saved some of the best for last,

00:33:11.220 because I want to address really probably one of the key things that's happened, which to this point

00:33:16.980 hasn't happened before. And that's why, at the beginning of the program, I talked about how

00:33:20.980 this might be something brand new. This might be so important a development that it's got, as you said,

00:33:27.140 more academics, more people awake and protesting against these changes than we've ever seen before.

00:33:34.180 But there's a new element, and that new element is with Pope Benedict. Why don't you explain for our

00:33:39.860 viewers what that's all about? Oh, well, yes, uh, so, Pope Benedict, uh, of course, Pope Benedict, uh,

00:33:46.180 the viewer, it'll be important for the viewers to know that Pope Benedict and Monsignor, well, Pope Benedict

00:33:52.020 himself has a very long history with the JP II Institute, of course. He was, when it was founded,

00:33:57.940 he would have been the prefect for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, um, under Pope John

00:34:03.540 Paul II. Um, he has a long and fruitful relationship with the Institute, uh, and with Monsignor Molina,

00:34:12.260 who served as president for a decade. Uh, so after all of this happened in this July, on August 1st,

00:34:19.380 um, Pope Benedict met privately with Monsignor Molina. Uh, uh, I believe it was CNA who reported on it.

00:34:28.100 And, uh, they, they, they published both a photo and some comments about the meeting. Now it's

00:34:35.540 important for the viewers to know that generally that would, if a photo is issued from the Vatican,

00:34:40.980 or if comments from such a meeting were made, that's done with the approval of both parties.

00:34:46.580 Um, and the comments, um, the comments, what was key in the comments, I think that it was

00:34:52.420 Pope Benedict who initiated the private meeting with Monsignor Molina.

00:34:57.940 And that they discussed at length, uh, what had happened with the JP II Institute.

00:35:02.980 And at the end of the conversation, he gave Monsignor Molina his blessing, um, and, um, and

00:35:10.660 promised solidarity, uh, with him, uh, as this unfolds.

00:35:15.300 That, that's amazing to understand the gravity here. This is really the first time, uh, Pope Benedict

00:35:24.180 has sort of inserted himself in a way into a debate where it's going on with Pope Francis

00:35:29.700 directly. And yes, it's mild, or might appear mild, but there's actually quite, quite something.

00:35:36.260 To allow for a photo with the dismissed professor, to allow it to be known that he supports him,

00:35:43.460 that he gave him his blessing is a, is a very strong, even though it might not appear so.

00:35:48.180 It's actually a very strong statement all by itself. So we are seeing some movement in this

00:35:53.940 sphere that we've never, ever seen before. And so we'll see what comes of this. Um, Diane,

00:36:00.260 with regard to, uh, hope for the future, uh, what might you say to, uh, give us some closing words?

00:36:07.300 Oh, uh, closing words, you know, in all of this, I, um, I was, I was thinking of Cardinal

00:36:13.300 Caffara. Of course, when the Modo Proprio is, we said it at the beginning of our conversation,

00:36:17.780 John Henry, the Modo Proprio, uh, that got this all started was, was signed, um, just days after

00:36:24.420 Cardinal Caffara's death and before he was even buried. Um, I had the honor,

00:36:30.100 uh, of interviewing Cardinal Caffara a couple of months before his death. It took place at the

00:36:35.940 Rome Life Forum in Rome. And, uh, the, within the, within the interview, we were talking about the,

00:36:43.860 the letter that Sister Lucia, who your, your viewers will know as one of the three Fatima

00:36:49.300 visionaries, a letter that, uh, she had written to Cardinal Caffara, uh, back in the, in the,

00:36:55.940 the early days of the Institute. I believe that Cardinal Caffara had written to Sister Lucia

00:37:01.460 simply to ask for her prayers because the Institute, he said, was going through trials,

00:37:06.820 both from those inside and outside the church that didn't want it. Um, and he said he didn't

00:37:12.900 expect to hear back from her, but, uh, but she wrote and she said these words. I'll just,

00:37:18.900 I'll just, um, she said to him, Father, a time will come when the decisive battle between the

00:37:25.460 Kingdom of Christ and Satan will be over marriage and family. And those who will work for the good

00:37:31.700 of the family will experience persecution and tribulation, but do not be afraid because Our Lady

00:37:38.500 has already crushed his head. And then in the May 2017 interview that I did with Cardinal Caffara,

00:37:46.180 he said that her letter, quote, remained engraved on my heart and amid all the difficulties we have

00:37:51.860 encountered. And there have been so, so many, these words have always given me great strength.

00:37:59.060 But then the Cardinal said to me, I asked if he thought that the, if Sister Lucia's words were

00:38:04.820 prophetic. And he said to me, what Sister Lucia wrote to me is being fulfilled today. So I think we

00:38:12.020 really need to, we need to cling to prayer. Uh, we need to turn to Our Lady. Prayer is more powerful

00:38:18.260 than anything and any powers in this earth. Uh, and so we, I think we need to really remain hopeful.

00:38:24.820 Uh, uh, pray for the professors of the Institute, pray for Archbishop Paglia, pray for Monsignor

00:38:31.860 Sequeri, pray very much for Pope Francis and for all of those involved, um, that, um,

00:38:38.740 that something can be done because there's still time. Amen. Amen. And let's, uh, let's take a look

00:38:45.380 at what Brian had to say in terms of being hopeful and really standing up for the truth.

00:38:50.340 Even in my last semester there, there was an event that wasn't publicized by the Institute,

00:38:56.340 but yet was one of the most highly attended, uh, events. And it was, it was a dissertation

00:39:02.900 that was presented as a book, uh, talking about the, um, these letters that were recently published

00:39:09.060 about Pope St. John Paul II, reaffirming that, um, basically humana vitae can never change.

00:39:16.660 But it was in there that Monsignor Molina revealed that this is where the whole perspective of what's

00:39:25.300 going on in the JP2 now, it totally clicked for me because he said that in the constitution that

00:39:31.780 St. John Paul II vision, in his vision of what he founded this school on, the sole purpose of this

00:39:38.020 Institute was to defend the teachings of humana vitae. The future is bleak for that Institute,

00:39:45.620 but the future is so bright for the true Institute of what St. John Paul II, which is in

00:39:52.020 here and in here of all the students that have come before me. And now is the time to rise.

00:39:58.740 And Diane, I wanted to thank you for being with us on this episode of the John Henry Weston show.

00:40:04.340 Thank you, John Henry. Good to be with you.

00:40:06.340 And may God bless you all. And good night.

The John-Henry Westen Show - August 20, 2019

Pope Francis and the attempt to destroy the crown jewel of Pope JPII's legacy

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