In this episode of the John Henry Weston Show, host John Henry Westendorf sits down with Doug Mainwaring to discuss Pope Francis' recent remarks on homosexuality and the church's response. Doug shares his own experience of growing up gay in the Catholic Church and his journey to discovering he was gay.
00:07:51.140And that was the beginning of the healing of our marriage.
00:07:54.840And at first, I thought it was just going to be, you know, live and let live.
00:08:01.160And, you know, we're just getting together for the sake of our kids and peaceful coexistence, all that sort of thing.
00:08:08.600But miraculous things started happening.
00:08:12.180I thought, you know, we'd look forward to just maybe peaceful coexistence for a couple of years until our kids both got out of high school.
00:08:21.040But God started healing our marriage day by day.
00:08:25.200And we went from sitting on opposite ends of the couch while watching Jeopardy to slowly moving closer together each night and sharing popcorn.
00:08:35.280And that was almost eight years ago now, and we've been together ever since.
00:08:42.740And there's just been countless blessings to our family as a result of our marriage getting back together again.
00:08:50.960You know, and I should add that there's still plenty of wounds and repercussions in the kids' lives as well.
00:08:59.340But my goodness, God has just been so good to us in allowing that to halt and to begin to turn around.
00:09:12.820Now, the funny thing is the teaching of the church, and you're a very faithful Catholic, and yet so many people call the teaching of the church on homosexuality hateful, harmful, hurtful.
00:09:24.220You know, they've wanted the church to change the catechism.
00:09:27.340You know, in the catechism, it says, and I'll read it for you, basing itself on sacred scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity.
00:09:37.060Tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.
00:09:41.400So, the church is very clear on the homosexual orientation or sort of temptation toward sexual activity as not being sinful.
00:10:02.480Yes, it's disordered, but it's not sinful.
00:10:05.320The acts themselves, giving in to those temptations, just like giving in to any sinful temptations, are sinful.
00:10:12.560What's your take on that stance of the church, and how would you explain it to people who are affected with sort of a temptation toward homosexual activity?
00:10:24.640Well, I found the church's teaching to be exactly right.
00:10:32.020You know, one of the things I didn't mention a few minutes ago is that when I started feeling drawn back to, you know, into a relationship with God, and I started searching for a church to go to.
00:10:47.560And I started with this church that was, you know, the Metropolitan Community Church, which is pretty much exclusively for gays and lesbians, and it only took one visit for me to decide, well, this isn't right.
00:11:03.740What they're teaching here is not right.
00:11:06.740And I went through many other denominations and finally came back to the Catholic Church because it's the only game in town.
00:11:19.100The Catholic Church is the only place where people were willing to speak truthfully to me about my own life.
00:11:28.560My conscience was already telling me things about the way I was living my life.
00:11:34.180But I still needed to hear that from other people.
00:11:38.540And I can't tell you how many ex-gays and lesbians and so forth that I know who say that people who think they're doing, you know, being nice, doing a good thing, being affirmative, and so forth, that they're somehow helping men and women who struggle with same-sex attraction.
00:12:35.180It's what's drawn so many people with same-sex attraction that I know back.
00:12:40.140And have drawn us into lives that are so much better, so much more full, so much happier.
00:12:51.200There's so much joy that comes from not giving in to the weakness of the flesh, but being able to demonstrate to oneself that you have mastery over the weakness of the flesh.
00:13:04.640So, you know, the forces acting within the Church right now that are trying to cast aside 2,000 years of solid teaching, wisdom, spirit-led understanding are doing a tremendous disservice to the very ones that they're hoping to help somehow.
00:13:39.040In fact, I did a whole show on the Pope's trip to America where he met with a homosexual man and his partner embracing them with the video camera running.
00:13:48.220And it's, of course, aired all over the place.
00:13:50.360I'll let our viewers check out that show in the link below.
00:13:53.260But there have been many more concerning things from the Pope himself.
00:13:58.920Let's maybe start with what happened when the Pope spoke with a Chilean sex abuse victim.
00:15:29.520Juan Carlos, God made you like this, God loves you like this, the Pope loves you like this, and you should love yourself.
00:15:36.640And for me, of course, tears, you know, and it's been incredible the amount of gay people that have written to me and said,
00:15:44.860I'm crying as I'm crying as I hear this, and it's touching.
00:15:49.860So I hope that by me doing these things, it helps survivors, it helps gay people, it helps all these people that are disenfranchised and that are suffering in some way,
00:16:01.800and that I can contribute to bring them through this great man, the Holy Father, to bring them some kind of solace in their lives.
00:16:12.800There will be people who don't like it, there will be people who will hate on you, there will be people who will explain it away within the church,
00:16:17.360and none of that matters because the Pope said something that that church and that the world needed to hear.
00:16:23.280Being gay is not what you do, it's who you are.
00:16:26.920And he said that for everyone to hear.
00:16:56.580I remember I raced to write about it for LifeSite Newsreaders and called it the lie of the century because it struck me as being just so dangerous.
00:17:10.280It undermined so much good, you know, that's gone on in terms of teaching people who are dealing with same-sex attraction.
00:17:20.820And, you know, my head was just reeling after hearing that.
00:17:27.680But, again, what people with same-sex attraction need is not affirmation.
00:17:35.220They don't need affirmation of their sexual tendencies.
00:17:39.680They need affirmation as children of God.
00:17:42.960But I know I do, and everybody else I know who struggles with same-sex attraction does as well.
00:17:50.800John Henry, at the time, I solicited comments from a lot of folks I know who now live chaste lives.
00:18:00.640I asked them about what they thought about the Pope's words.
00:18:05.420Would you mind if I read a few of those?
00:18:09.560Because these folks, they all had the same sort of response, the same one that I did.
00:18:17.680One man wrote to me just how seriously, he wondered just how seriously the Holy Father takes the Church's teachings on this and other issues of sexual morality.
00:18:29.380It is deeply disturbing to believe that leaders of the Roman Catholic Church are more concerned about winning people's affection and approval than the fate of their eternal souls.
00:18:41.200This certainly makes it a lot harder for those of us who are same-sex attracted and trying to obey the Church's timeless teachings to do so,
00:18:49.340or even feel like we are welcome in the new paradigm-shifting Church.
00:18:53.740And then he went on to say, belonging to a Church whose leaders don't even believe in its teachings just seems kind of dumb.
00:20:03.580I mean, the need for concern for the soul, first and foremost,
00:20:09.720besides which the Church has never taught that we have to be mean or nasty or anything like that.
00:20:15.200Our approach that, the approach of the Church and the approach at Lifesight when we write about these things and talk about these things,
00:20:21.540is caritas in veritate, love in truth.
00:20:24.480And it goes sort of both ways, that, you know, there has to be love when explaining these things,
00:20:30.220so you do it in a manner where you actually demonstrate through how you say what you say,
00:20:34.700that you are concerned for these individuals who are living lives of sin that can lead them to hell.
00:20:40.660And also that, you know, you have to express the truth itself in order to show that you love,
00:20:47.980because it's never loving to allow someone, you know,
00:20:52.200there's no love in a parent allowing their kids to play on the freeway because they think otherwise they'd be mean if they didn't let them do that.
00:20:59.240That's not love, that's convenience and or trying to hassle avoidance.
00:21:04.160But you don't do that when you actually love someone.
00:21:06.260You tell them the truth, even if the truth hurts.
00:21:08.780You tell them in a way that they can accept it hopefully and hear your love in it
00:21:13.560and see that you're lovingly telling them this.
00:21:18.200Yeah, and let me say a couple of other things.
00:21:21.540One is that I realized a long time ago that when I first went to confession to talk about my same-sex attraction as an 18-year-old,