Priests are treated 'like caged dogs'： Vermont priest threatened by vax-pushing bishop defends resistance
Summary
In this episode, Father Peter Williams talks about the consequences of refusing to get the abortion-tametiming vaccine, and how they affect the lives of other priests and deacons in the diocese where he serves.
Transcript
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What is the cost of a priest actually standing up and doing what we all want them to do?
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What if your priest, instead of shutting down churches or barring you because you refuse
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to wear a mask or refuse to get the vaccine, instead of barring you from entry, says, no,
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And what if that same priest, when presented with the same mandate from the bishop for
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all priests, saying you got to get vaccinated, otherwise you got to test all the time and
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wear a mask constantly, says, no, I can't do that.
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And therefore, there should be no punishment for refusing an abortion tainted vaccine.
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You can see this interview with Father Peter Williams, who's facing those consequences,
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which are not only suspension, but also can include excommunication.
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Welcome to this episode of the John Henry Weston show, where we're very pleased to have
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Father, if you could lead us off with the Son of the Cross.
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In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
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As I said at the beginning there, you're one of the few heroic priests who are willing
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to tell people it is what it is when it comes to the vaccine, the vaccine mandates, masking
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If you could, Father, tell us a little bit about your story and where you're at currently.
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It was trying to respond in obedience to all of those things.
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And then as time went by, I was very glad that things had opened up and our churches
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We could welcome more people in until the point where we didn't have to worry about any of
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And then just this fall, the bishop sent a letter out to the priests and deacons saying
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But if we, for whatever personal reasons, had decided not to be vaccinated, that we would
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then get tested every two weeks and wear a mask for all our ministries.
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Not just mass, but, you know, on and on and on, whatever we did in terms of ministry, which
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He had written it out to all the priests, but I just personally responded to him.
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And then he said that he wasn't going to check, but it was a matter of honor.
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And so it felt like he was sort of just hitting certain spots for me that it was obedient.
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And I thought, well, if I could work my way around it, you know, with a mental reservation
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or this or that, but then he made it a matter of honor.
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And I thought, well, my honor demands that I respond to him personally.
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And so I wrote him a letter saying that I felt like it was punishment, that what we knew
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was that anybody who had been vaccinated could get COVID and could give COVID.
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And I felt that it was just unnecessary punishment for those of us who were not going to be vaccinated
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to wear a mask and get tested and all of those things.
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Now, Father, who's your bishop and what diocese are you in?
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I'm in the Burlington, Vermont diocese and it's Bishop Christopher Coyne.
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And, you know, your communications with the bishop, were they in any way antagonistic
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For me, I thought it was being very respectful.
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Later, my canon lawyer would tell me that some of my tones seemed to be a little bit brusque.
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And I thought, well, that's kind of the way that I am when I'm trying to tell somebody
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And so that certainly wasn't any deliberate thing that I'm trying to be rude or mean or
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I was just trying to be clear that this was a conscience decision on my part.
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And when I made that choice, it was, you know, after forming my conscience.
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Now, this is a teaching in the church that we're able to follow our consciences.
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We were supposed to hold them sort of supreme after informing them, of course.
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What's his, you know, have you received any ramifications for your communications with
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So once I responded to him, he got back to me with a canon lawyer, the vicar general of
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the diocese who's a canon lawyer, and said that my penalty would be according to this
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And if I didn't comply with him, I had 14 days to respond and to comply.
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And if I didn't, then they would follow this course.
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And it was only after consulting a canon lawyer, getting a canon lawyer for myself that I realized
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The penalties went anywhere from suspension all the way to up to excommunication.
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And he was shocked that that was, those were the terms.
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And I, you know, so now the bishop and his canonists are going back and forth.
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And so everything I have to do with the diocese now is, is, is through canon lawyers.
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Um, but then, then the, the, the, the next round, he asked me to resign.
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He thought it wouldn't be good for the people or myself or the people or whatever.
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And I thought, well, I'm working, I'm still working.
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And we're coming up on Advent and Christmas season and all that kind of thing.
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And if I were just to resign, and I haven't told the people anything, if I just to resign,
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And everyone would think it was, you know, some personal problem that I had or whatever.
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And so, so I didn't, I said, no, I won't, uh, my head, my canon lawyer, uh, convey that
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Then it seemed that the ground sort of shifted and saying that I was seriously ill and mentally
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And so then I had to make a video so that my message to my parishioners would be the same
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And I wouldn't be struggling to do this several hundred times with each individual person
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that I would just do it once and get it out there and distribute the message.
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And then my canon lawyer was advising me to get letters, you know, saying that I was functioning
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very well and didn't seem to have any health issues and to the best of their ability, it
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looked like I was normal or sane or whatever you want to say.
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So, well, father, obviously you're very well-spoken.
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You seem very thoughtful, um, that question seems to be, uh, kind of ludicrous, but it
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is a sad reality today that many families are hugely divided into vaxxed and unvaxxed,
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into those who are pro-vaccine like crazy, ready to do, as the stats show, we, we've seen,
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uh, liberal stats from both America, from Canada, from Europe, where there's a whole segment
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of society ready to throw even their relatives, uh, into jail.
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I will tell you this as a pastor and as a priest, a shepherd of souls, that, um, I saw this long
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before COVID came, uh, in terms of the divisions.
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So I, I would see families being divided and disintegrated on, you know, on the silliest of
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terms, you know, the crazy things would get in there.
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And I just, I knew that it was, you know, uh, the enemy at work and getting into, you
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know, in the midst of us and dividing us one against another for whatever reasons.
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And then of course COVID hit and everybody had a seemingly good excuse, you know, to turn
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And so as shocking as it is, um, it's not really surprising to those of us who are, uh,
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live in the spirit, you know, have, have dealings with the spiritual realm.
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So you're fighting this not only for yourself, for the go to the church, um, explain that to
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Like people say, oh, they, some write me letters and say, some write me letters and nasty
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I didn't consult them before I made a conscious choice.
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I just knew in my own heart what I needed to do, but others are writing saying, thank
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And the Lord is, you know, maybe making that stubbornness into courage.
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Um, but, but I, I am aware that, um, to, to be honest, like, um, when the churches were
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shut down and, and I was talking about this with my brother, priests, pastors and things,
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and we're saying, well, is that canonically correct?
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And one of the fellows had a seminarian living with him.
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And so he was still in contact with his kind of law professor.
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And the canon law professor said that once the Pope had shut down churches in Rome and
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the Vatican itself had closed all those things down, that every bishop in the world could
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look at that as a precedent and had a right to close down their churches.
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And even though that was a frustrating answer to me, it sort of made sense to me.
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So then if you follow along to where we are today and the Vatican, you have to have a vaccine
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passport, the green pass or whatever it is to get into the Vatican, even to go to work
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in the Vatican, to tour the Vatican, to do whatever.
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And then a priest, not a priest, but the Bishop of Luxembourg, and I apologize, I don't know
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his name, but I saw that in, in the news somewhere that, that he had said that, uh, you had to
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And I looked and I said, well, that's the next thing, uh, for my parishioners.
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And then I got to close the churches, but they're going to say those parishioners who haven't
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So when they said that I needed to be vaccinated or to do all of these things in order to comply,
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I, um, I thought, well, I need to do this for the sake of my people.
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And to be honest, I never in, I had my, my people's welfare in mind, but I never had other
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I don't, I'm in a little parish in Vermont and I don't think anything that I do will
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But I'm, I'm, I'm not, uh, I, I just don't think in those terms or whatever.
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So it was simply my people that I was trying to protect.
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If this was going to come down the pipe, I thought I have to make a stand here and say,
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I had a very similar conversation with Father James Altman, uh, who also told me that, um,
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I think our Lord, uh, uses us beyond where we feel called when we're doing what we should
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Uh, St. Therese was, you know, cleaning the convent and, uh, and praying for the priests
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that, uh, she knew she should pray for and came to ask for prayers.
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Some of the great saints of the church are the porters, you know, like St. Brother Andre
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from Montreal and, and, and they ended up being the, the, the, the doorman or something.
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Uh, St. Maria Faustina was in charge of the door for a while.
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She had other jobs as well, but she was in charge of the door for a while.
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So I always think that, you know, that, that sometimes the little ones you don't notice are
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the ones who, who are doing, uh, tremendous things and just in their, in their place, you
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know, sometimes it is also those who push back that lead the way, uh, in terms of coming
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I'll give you a priest, uh, you know, example of a priest that I know that basically, you
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know, everybody was going along to get along with health authorities that threatened to
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If you don't insist on max max saying some, if you don't insist on a vax passport or take
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everybody's name as they come in or deny Holy communion to those wishing to receive on
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Um, and, and so there's been encroachment after encroachment after, and many bishops
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And, um, I had a priest who told me that basically what he did was he said, all right, shut us
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I'm, I'm not going to insist on masking and bar people who won't come into the church,
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won't mask from coming into the church because they have the right to the sacraments.
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If you have to shut us down, it was funny because this very vehement, you know, health
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authority said, Oh, we don't, we don't want to do that.
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You know, you know, but all of a sudden this priest had a freedom, whereas all the other
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priests, same dioces and so on, they don't have the same freedoms because he pushed back.
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So it's a, it's a very interesting thing that doesn't happen all the time, but it does
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And that's why we're seeing much of the, you know, many of the protests and so on go on
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because people know after time we have to push back because it's for our freedoms, for
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our, you know, good and the good of society and hear what you're doing for the good of
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What are you hoping, um, people take away, uh, from this and, and how can they assist you?
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One is that people will become informed about what the church teaches about some of the things
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So what the church teaches about, uh, your conscience is, it's not just kind of, uh, an
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And of course it has to be well-informed and we count on the church, the sacraments, the
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scriptures, uh, the teaching of the church and all of those things to, to inform us and
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And then from there in your conscience, then you move to important things like freedoms,
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And then I would hope people would have similarly around the world, but we know from the church
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teaching is that God gives us freedom and the beautiful thing.
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And I've seen it many, many times, um, in people's lives and also in my own life, that
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He is the supreme Lord of the universe, the creator of everything.
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And he respects our individual choices, even though he may know that they're wrong, he respects
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them and allows them to play out with the consequences.
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And, um, so that kind of freedom is where we come from.
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That's the image and likeness that we were made in.
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And, and, and so if we understand that, and that's what we're all about, um, that we would
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then stand up for one another's freedoms as well.
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And, um, uh, then eventually I would hope that as you're saying, and it certainly wasn't
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my intention, but certain priests have contacted me and said various and sundry different situations
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Um, I wish I could, or I want to do that, or, you know, that kind of thing.
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We need, we need somebody to, to, and as I said, that was not my intention, but if that's
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what's happening and I'm able to encourage someone and to give them, uh, uh, sort of a
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lift and, and, uh, help them along the way in any of these areas, then that's what should
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But first and foremost, I would encourage people not just to, um, not just to go along
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with what seems to be the, the line, the official line, but rather to do their own research.
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And, uh, shortly I'm going to put up a video that I did was just teaching about bodily integrity
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and obedience to conscience and, you know, that, what, what that means.
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And then I have another video that's going to go up and, uh, all these things have to
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be edited that were just, I said that I would respond to people's questions.
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And so I'm going to answer their questions, even, even at times when their questions are
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rude or whatever, I just feel an obligation to, to answer their questions because they're,
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you know, somehow I've opened the can of worms.
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So what is your sort of take on the vaccine mandates, uh, on the vaccines generally?
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Um, and, uh, where do you think people are, are at or should be at with regard to looking
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at it, uh, from a conscientious perspective, from their consciences?
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This time last year, I was writing in the bulletin.
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I wasn't actually present in my parish because this is the time of the year that I go on vacation.
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And, um, but, uh, I was writing them in the, you know, my thing in the, my little column
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And I was saying, we need to look very carefully at, at these vaccines, because if they're using,
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um, the cells from aborted babies, um, either in the research and development or in the production
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or the testing and all that kind of thing, then we should really look at what's going on here.
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And then as time has gone by, we see that there's been a lot of that, uh, going on.
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And, and then we've had certain lab technicians that have come forward.
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And I don't know if you've had them on or other people have had them on, but I've certainly
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seen them and they talk about, um, harvesting, uh, tissue and what actually goes involved.
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And when you find out that it's vivisection, uh, I was just appalled, horrified, disgusted.
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And, um, and the more and more that I've learned, uh, certainly about how they produce these
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things, what, and, and where, how they came about, I'm just not going to participate in
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And, uh, somebody says, well, then I shouldn't do this or this or that.
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Let me research that and see how I can respond to that as well.
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But, um, this is a particular evil that comes that, that we all thought we were going to
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be able to choose or not choose, um, and freely choose or not choose.
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And then all of a sudden it seems that the coercion that's going on.
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And that's one of the lines I use in the teaching video.
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If you, if you look at church teaching in Dona Vitae, it'll say that coercion, um, is
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at the same level as like murder and, and genocide and those kinds of, it's, it's not the same
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thing, obviously, but it's on that level where you're talking about very serious crimes against
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humanity, not just sins, you know, serious sins, like, uh, gossiping about your neighbor
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in a terrible way or something or stealing a thousand dollars, but crimes against humanity.
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When you realize it's let, it's reached at that kind of level, I'm headed in the other
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direction, you know, kind of thing I'm running the other way.
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Yet as a priest, you're in a kind of a conundrum.
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The, the people are as well, because they're being forced out of their jobs.
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They're being forced out of, um, uh, it's sometimes out of society, depending on where they
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Um, but you as a priest are confronted with this in a special way as well.
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Because it's coming from, uh, Pope Francis, who has said very clearly, it's a moral obligation.
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The example of the Vatican, as you were talking about before with the lockdowns, sure, but,
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um, they've implemented themselves a type of Vax mandate where, uh, you know, in entrance
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to the museums or even to St. Peter's to look at it, not for mass per se, but to, to go
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in and visit and pray even, uh, before the relics.
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Uh, but also, uh, in terms of working there, they've implemented a Vax mandate.
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So, you know, that from there come the bishops, they just, just moving down the line, unless
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they're willing to stand up for the freedom of conscience of their priests.
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They're, they're also implementing this mandate, insisting upon it and wanting to force it on
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Very, very difficult times for you as priests as well.
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Like I wanted to be obedient and comply as much as I could because of all of those other
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reasons when people were saying, you know, they say to me all the time, why don't you
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Why don't you just, you know, for the good of other people and all that kind of thing.
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And then, you know, so I, I was trying to do all of that.
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And I understand the priests and, and we feel very torn.
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There are others who are ready to comply and they have no problem with it and all that.
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But fine, when they go before God, they'll have a clear conscience.
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But as I was, as I said, not my bishop and not my Pope are going to stand with me on judgment
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There'll be no excuse when he says to me, you knew better, but okay, they did whatever
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And so I'm, so I have to stand before God, my conscience.
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And, but I see, I see priests, priests very much, uh, uh, in that place and, uh, to use
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an image and maybe it's too striking to people.
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I think priests are like, uh, especially the parish priests are like caged dogs and the bishop
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comes and beats them with a stick every once in a while to get them to comply with whatever
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Uh, so we very, we very much feel like, uh, you know, our parishioner, not all, but some
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of our parishioners are saying, we want you to do this.
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And priests are, we're just in that place of service.
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And because we're in that middle position that, uh, so my heart goes out to many, many priests
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and, and I, I'm not here to condemn any of them for, you know, uh, what they, what they're
00:22:12.040
Um, it breaks my heart that, that many of them forced or compelled or coerced or whatever
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And I understand that there may be some serious health consequences to that.
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One difficult question for you, Father, uh, before we end off here, he said, you don't
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There are a whole bunch of priests who are insisting upon vaccine mandates for prisoners
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coming to their parishes that are insisting on masking, that are insisting on reception
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Um, and therefore there are a whole bunch of Catholics for whom their parishes are no
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longer a place of welcome, even though they're in a state of grace.
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Like I cannot, uh, uh, make policy or whatever for another priest and for another parish and
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And even though they may feel that they're very well informed and they know exactly, and
00:23:26.580
And, uh, I, I find it interesting that I'm willing to say that from my point of view.
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Um, but they're not willing to say that, that, uh, they're not willing to, to give, uh, that
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same, uh, uh, leeway to me or extend that same courtesy to me.
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Um, but what I tried to do in, in my parish is lead my people closer holiness to God.
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And so, um, these issues don't come up except in the periphery, you know, when I have to
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mention certain kinds of things, but we keep the focus on, uh, Jesus Christ and conforming
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And that's what I intend to do, you know, as long as I possibly can.
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Father Peter Williams, thank you so much for standing for truth, standing for your, the
00:24:18.920
rights of your parishioners and for yourself to, uh, refuse what your conscience tells you
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is, uh, you know, an abortion tainted, uh, vaccine, which is morally, uh, very, very harmful
00:24:42.420
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May God bless you and keep you, and we are so thankful that you've chosen to follow and
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I'm John Henry Weston, co-founder and editor-in-chief of LifeSite News.