Private Revelations & Belief in God. Finding Answers When the Stakes Are High
Summary
In this episode of the John Henry Weston Show, Father Francesco Giordano and Father Gene Zanetti debate whether or not we really need to believe private revelations from Heaven. Do we really have to believe them?
Transcript
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There's nothing that could be less traditional than this belief, this modernist belief that
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private revelation is optional, especially when it's directed at you. Our Lord is the Lord of
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history and he doesn't send his mother just randomly. So that's why we have to take this
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seriously. Hey my friends, I'm sure you've heard about private revelations. What we always hear
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around is that all those revelations, Fatima and Lourdes and La Salette and Rudabach and all
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these revelations from heaven, our lady came down from heaven, apparently you don't have to really
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believe them. And therefore, if you don't believe them, you don't really have to do what they say
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to do. They say you have to do the first Saturday devotion. But meh, if you're not called to believe
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it really to be a Catholic, then do you really need to? There's going to be a super surprising
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answer for you to that question. Stay tuned to this episode of the John Henry Weston Show.
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Gene Zanetti and Fr. Francesco Giordano, so good to be with you both.
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Let's begin, as you always do, with the sign of the cross. Father, if you wouldn't mind leading us.
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In the name of the Father, in the Son, in the Holy Spirit. Amen.
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Amen. So, first of all, if you can tell us just a little bit about who you are, just so that we know
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as we're getting into this topic. Father, what will start with you?
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Yes, I'm Fr. Francesco Giordano. I'm in Rome. And I'm the Director for Human Life International in the
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Rome Office. And I also teach at various different universities in Rome in dogmatic theology and moral
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theology. Yeah. With a background in Thomistic theology. Thank you, Father. Gene, what's your
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background? Yes, I'm Gene Zanetti. I'm an apostle at Spiritual Strength, Building Athletes for Christ.
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My business is Winning Mindset, a sports psychology company. My master's degrees are exercise science,
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sports psychology, and school psychology. And most importantly, I'm a Catholic and husband and father
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of three. All right. So, this is very interesting because this notion of, you know, private revelation
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is private. We don't have to believe it. But that brings up some really weird questions because
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then the rosary itself is from a private revelation. St. Dominic, is it not? Gene, why don't you give us
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it first? Yeah, there's nothing that could be less traditional than this belief, this modernist belief
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that private revelation is optional, especially when it's directed at you. Whenever heaven speaks,
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heaven has a very clear purpose. And when heaven wants us to do something, we must comply. And that's
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pretty basic when you think about it. You could ask that of an eight-year-old who made their first
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holy communion. And unfortunately, we've been given a lot of false information. I mean, if you go up to
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99% of Catholics, and I'm including priests too, they'll tell you private revelation is optional.
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And when you look at what the church has said, what the manualists have said, and even what ecumenical
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councils have said in the past, nothing could be less traditional.
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Wow. Boy, that's some pretty strong stuff there. Father, do you concur with that? Is it
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really weird? Like, you know, these private revelations where we sort of need to believe them?
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Well, first, I think we need to define what we mean. So I think by universal revelations,
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we mean the deposit of the faith. So that must be believed. And then private revelations,
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essentially, that are approved by the church, those are there to help us believe what is the
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deposit of faith. So that's sort of, I think, the important distinction. Because we believe as
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Catholics that, obviously, that what our Lord said in Matthew 28, that he would not abandon us,
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and that he would be there with us to the end of time. Or what we read in the John 9 texts,
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that there's much more to be said than can be held in these books.
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We are not a religion of the book. It's important to keep that in mind. So yes,
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we do have a group of canonical texts that, by the way, were only officially, universally said as
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such at Trent. Yes, we had particular councils like 397 in Carthage, those in the early,
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that's the late fourth century with St. Augustine and all, that we started talking about canonical
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text, canonicity of scripture. But it was not until Trent that that was actually made clear.
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So you would get up to like 1500 years that we've got this, you know, we've got, we don't even have
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it clear to find what are canonical texts, except for by a particular council. So that shows us that,
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you know, there's a lot of elasticity in all of this. However, we are after Trent here. So we have
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the canonical texts in scripture. And what is there to say for everything after or outside of those
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texts? Well, that's the Holy Spirit speaking and speaking to us in, through his saints, through
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mystical appearances, through mystical phenomena. As we see like people, like saints, like St.
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Catherine of Siena, who, you know, with all of the power, God in her brought the Pope back to Rome
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from Avignon. So that there is such powerful divine intervention by also by means, by human means is
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something very much part and parcel to the history of the church. So on that note, I have to say, you
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know, when you have a private revelation that is approved by the church, that is legitimately approved
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by the church, such as what you mentioned, Rudevac in 1831, La Salette 1846, or Lourdes 1858, Fatima 1917.
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When you have such, how, let's say they're not public revelation in the sense, they're private
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revelations that are made public for all of us. Well, then I think we must pay attention. Our lady
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doesn't just appear out of the blue for no reason. Let me give you a historical context to this. So
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what is interesting about the three apparitions in France is that you've got a post-French
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Revolution period. You've got Auguste Comte in 1822 writing a new religion, positivism. It's a new
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science, a new religion of scientism. And, you know, there's, I'm reading right now a great book by
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Michael Auger on, it's called The Immortal in You. And it talks about our soul, because we're living in
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a society right now where science, natural science claims that there's no soul anymore. We have just
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recently lived, you know, through the whole COVID situation where science was the last word, science,
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science, science, natural science. But science, as we know, the word scientist itself appears in 1847
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in English language. But science was there all throughout the past in philosophy. We can't say
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that Aristotle was not a scientist. So what do we mean by science? We mean knowledge. Do we mean that
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knowledge needs to be limited just to the mere natural, to the positivism of Auguste Comte? I think
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not. And that's what happens with Our Lady's interventions in history in 1831 in Hudebach, where
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she brings the miraculous medal to bear, the importance of the miraculous. There's something more to life
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than just what you see, what you touch. There's a metaphysical. You know, I'm reading another book right
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now also by Dietrich von Hildebrand called The New Tower of Babel. I mean, we live in a society that doesn't
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believe in the metaphysical anymore. We have to remember that prior to the French Revolution, you had
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Kant in 1782 writing on the critique of reason. You know, you have, it's all rationalism. It's all
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nominalism. It's all a form of very superficial knowledge, essentially. And what we are preaching is a
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knowledge that's metaphysical, that's deep, that looks at reality in the depths. And that's what you have
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Hudebach. You have these miraculous medals. You have a touch of heaven. 1846, La Salette. Why? Why
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does she emphasize so much, Our Lady in that point, the Sabbath? Well, because we're living in an
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industrial society where every day is the same. Well, our Lord has always said, no, there needs to be a
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time of rest, a time of meditation and contemplation on the Lord, on the Lord of Lords, the Lord who made
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time, who made space. And so a recall to the basics act, to the basic commandments, the third
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commandments, right? As you see, it's emphasizing what has already been publicly revealed. And 1858,
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Our Lady of Lords, that's interesting. That year is interesting. 1854, we had declared the Immaculate
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Conception dogmatically. 1858, she says she's been Immaculate Conception. And it's happening when?
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The year before The Origin of Species by Darwin. You know, what is it about? It's about recreation,
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which is similar to the Sabbath. What is the Sabbath? What is respite about? It's not just
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resting and taking a vacation. When you have recreation in religious life, it's about recreating
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the day and discussing the day that you've had, the time, the solace you've had in prayer with God,
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you come together as a community and you talk about it. So it's a rest that is meditating upon
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how God has worked in your life. And that's why we need the Sabbath. And that's why we need to
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rethink about our origins. Because if you don't know the origins, you don't know the end. And we live
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in a society also, philosophically speaking, that has, you know, we don't have the final cause.
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We have, we look at efficient causality. We look at material causality. We've lost touch of
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final causality and formal causality. We've lost touch with where we're from and where we're going.
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And we've lost touch with the soul, with the formal cause. So in light of all that, looking at that
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in a historical context, why are ladies appearing at all this? And then the emphasis of the church in
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the 1850s and 1870s with, with the first Vatican council and in the Roman school with Perone and
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others, other great scholars in Rome, Jesuit scholars who were discussing this, the importance
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of divine revelation, because you can't, we can't have a life that's based just on mere positivism.
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There has to be the supernatural. So the debates actually for about a hundred years until the, until
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you know, 1950s, we have the debate of what is, what is the nature of the supernatural and its
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intervention in our lives. And with that, you have 1917, you have this great, you have the great
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apparitions of Our Lady of Fatima talk, calling us to do what? Penance and reparation, prayer and
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reparation and penance. That's what the message is about really fundamentally. And pushing for that,
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or else, or else there would be, there would be many, many, many punishments, divine punishments
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scourged upon us. But the emphasis on the, on the penance and the prayer, and we look around us,
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we look at a society that has really forgotten to pray and to do penance. And you see those messages,
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they're all connected. It's like, it's an, it's a, it's a, if you look at the narrative of the message,
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and you look at the reason for the message, and you look at it in light of what the church
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is reflecting upon theologically, it all just simply makes sense. So in light of everything
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I've just said, these messages are there to enrichen our faith, our tradition, to enrichen
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our imagination, to enrichen our, our religious sense, to, to encourage us, to, to, to bring,
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to, to encourage the, the will within us to desire God again. And, and for me, that's what
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these messages do. They don't, they don't contradict to my faith. I mean, what, to pray
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more, to, to read, to pray more the rosary, to pray the rosary, the five, the five first
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Saturdays or the, or the, or the nine first Fridays. You know, I, I don't see what the
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problem with that is. I mean, that's back to, back to also our Lord. I'm going to think
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of another apparition in, in the 16, 1680, uh, with our, with our Lord and the Sacred Heart
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appearing, uh, in, uh, to our, to St. Mark and Mariella Cook. When was that? Eight years
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before the glorious revolution in England that eliminated Catholicism. These, our Lord and
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Our Lady do not appear in just randomly. They are, let us not forget, our Lord is the Lord
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of history. And he doesn't, he doesn't send our mother, his mother, uh, our mother just
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randomly. So that's why we have to take these seriously. And if the church has approved them,
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then, uh, it's not something you can just say, well, I'm not going to believe it. If you
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don't, you're basically, I think you're, you're really, um, you, I think you can say you have
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a bit of a dry faith. And I, I guess maybe I'm a little bit too Italian and I'd like to have
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a little bit more imagination in my faith. So. Indeed. Thank you, Father. Uh, Gene, you were
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saying that it is one of the greatest or, or most severe marks of what's going on today
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in modern church history, this rejection of, uh, the necessity of believing and holding
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to what's coming from heaven. Give us more of that. Right. Because we know that our Lord
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and Our Lady have said in the apparitions of Fatima that only she can save us. This is
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our only hope. And that if we do, if enough people, an unknown critical number, God always
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uses a faithful remnant, a relatively small number of people who must execute his will
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doing exactly what he says to merit a blessing for the entire world. And since this is the
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answer for our time, we know this is something that, that, that has to be done. Our Lord and
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Our Lady said only she can save us. So all of the problems of the world, everything, the crisis
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in the world, the crisis in the church, it's all symptomatic of us not living the Fatima
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message. That's why it's so devastating. So what really hit me like a slap in the face.
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I remember reading the CDF document on the message of Fatima in 2000 by Cardinal Ratzinger, where
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he, where he basically says that, um, I mean, I have the quote here. He says that, um, it's
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basically, uh, private revelation can only be accepted with Catholic faith, with human
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faith and never Catholic faith. All right. So human faith, if we hear private revelation,
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we have to accept it on human faith and it's prudent to act. So it's good to do. We don't
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have to do it. Right. And that always struck me as kind of odd. Why would God intervene in
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history? Even when you look back in the Bible, the Jews had 613 commandments to fulfill, but
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sometimes God would intervene in history and says, do something on top of the 613 commandments.
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And if those few people don't do it, there's a massive punishment. So I knew this couldn't
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be optional. How could this only be human faith? And then one of the things I was doing was
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reading my spiritual theology manual by father Jordan Allman, spiritual theology. Father Ripperger
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talks about this a lot. And then I read back also my other theological manual by father Antonio
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Marin, which is 1954, the theology of Christian perfection. And they both give the same quote.
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They said, if a private revelation contains a message for others, and it has been accepted
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as an authentic revelation, those persons have an obligation to accept the truth of the revelation
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and act upon it. And then when you read the other manuals, they're saying the same thing. So
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when it's directed at you. So I went back to the source document that Cardinal Ratzinger quoted
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in that CDF document. And indeed, it does say when private revelation is not directed at you,
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it's only human faith, and it can never be understood with Catholic faith. But if you look
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in that document, I don't know if you could see the book through my blurred screen, Heroic Virtue
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Volume 3. If you look at the paragraph directly above where Cardinal Ratzinger quotes, it actually
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speaks to more accurately to Fatima. What is to be said of those revelations that are directed
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of you? And it says, to he to whom the private revelation is proposed and announced ought to
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believe and obey the command or message of God. He is bound to believe God. So we can't
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mix the categories. There's a big difference if the private revelation is directed at us,
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which is almost never. And then when it's not directed at us. So as an example, when Our Lady
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says to wear the miraculous medal, this is a rude debacle. Yes, it's prudent for us to do that.
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We accept that at human faith. We're not obligated to do it. The people who Our Lady directs that
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message at do need to do it. But when Our Lady of Fatima says, I'll perform a miracle so that all may
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believe, this is a message for everyone. So that's how we know. And Pope John Paul II said this,
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that Fatima imposes a commitment on the church. Pope Benedict XVI said the same thing. So we have
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to take this serious. And it's not just merely a matter of human faith. It can't be Catholic faith
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because it's not the deposit of faith. But there is a different area, divine faith, when it's just
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specifically an approved private revelation and it's directed at you. And again, that almost never
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happens. It's so rare. But when it does happen, you have to take heed. And the Fifth Lateran Council
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says the same. So Father, this is going to get somewhat confusing because there's an issue of
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private revelation that has been approved, those that aren't approved, because you got into it a
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little bit. But there's more of a question because while Fatima was going on, while the miracles were
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happening, while Our Lady of Lords was appearing, the miracles were happening. It wasn't approved.
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Yet people went there, were healed there. A lot of people suggest, oh, if you go to something that's
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not approved or you listen to it or whatever, you're sinning or it's dangerous. How do we suss that out?
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Yeah, you cited it well. I remember in Lourdes, King Napoleon III, his son, our daughter, I think,
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was sick and he didn't believe, he wanted to close the shrine completely. And then the child got healed.
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So he changed his mind completely on this. So yes, while the acclaimed, or actually the actual
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miracles are happening, the church observes and withholds judgments. So until the church has not
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spoken, I don't see the problem with that. You know, I mean, there has to be, there has to be a
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certain prudential judgment, of course. It's kind of complicated because the church needs their time
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to reflect on, to reflect on the given apparitions. I mean, there are apparitions. There's one here near
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Rome in Civitavecchia, where the bishop was initially very opposed to it, but then he put the
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statue in his closet or something, and it started bleeding or something. And then he changed his
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mind, you know, and the pope himself was involved in it. And I don't know exactly the status of this
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revelation right now. But one of the things also that you see, well, I did study it a little bit,
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and I met the people there. I went to see it. And what I noticed is that the people that are
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involved in it are very normal, ordinary people. That's a key sign. So we also do have to look,
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as the church is analyzing these situations, they basically look at what kind of people are involved
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in it, you know. Are they, you know, just normal people with a job or whatever, simple people?
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Usually it's simple people. Why? Because God does that. That's the kind of the approach that God
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uses, you know, and they, not kind of, it is the approach that God uses to show that it's from him
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and not from the person. So when you, you know, at the same time, also, you have to look at if it's
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from God or the evil one. So there's also that. So the church needs their time to analyze and to
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see, you know, to take into consideration, to observe. It takes time. But in the meantime,
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yeah, I think that people can approach these sites, but with caution, I would say, you know,
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and that's what's happening, for example, with Magigori. I think it's ongoing. Magigori is,
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there's, it hasn't really closed yet. They've had a number of different commissions from Rome,
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with the most recent one with Cardinal Arrini, and even Cardinal Ratzinger went there before he
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became Pope, he went to see. And there's sort of a suspension of judgment on the situation,
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because even there, it's, and there, there's a big history. For instance, that the actual place
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in Magigori, there, these Franciscans go back in that, go back to the 1700s with some problems
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that they had with, in terms of disobedience with Rome. So that's, that's part of the problem there.
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Um, but then you have to wonder why, why this phenomenon, why Magigori, for instance, why,
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why in the 1980s, all of a sudden, all these apparitions happened there. And it's a time also,
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when it looks at that, it's also a time of, of confusion in the church. In the 1970s, the church,
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60s and 70s, the church witnessed a great confusion. And so these, the human heart has a need for
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something above, something more supernatural. So something that wasn't happening. And there
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wasn't, um, a lot of Marian devotion taking place in the parishes anymore, uh, for instance. And so
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people needed this, you know, they needed to go to these, they needed to believe in something like
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this. Um, it's interesting also to look at that historically, historically, why, why Magigori,
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you know, uh, here there's, uh, Radio Maria in Italy, uh, Padre Livio, the, the founder of the one
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who's in charge of it. He's big proponent of it. At the same time, the bishops are very,
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they don't know what to say. So it's one of these things where it's like, what, what's going on,
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you know, and the Vatican itself has not spoken on this. Um, and so it's one of these phenomenons,
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it's a 40 year, it's now over 40 years, this phenomenon, this situation. And, uh, we don't
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have clarity and there's a lot of debates going on among theologians about it. There's a lot of
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people, there are a lot of theologians I know who are disagreeing with it, who don't see the value,
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who see some inconsistencies with it. Uh, for instance, the fact that Our Lady appears so much,
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if I'm not mistaken, though, the Vatican did approve of parishes doing pilgrimages there,
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even though it hasn't given its full stamp of approval.
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Exactly. Things like that are happening. So it's just, it's kind of confusing, you know, and,
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and, but now there's more and more of these operations coming up all over the place. And,
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and, uh, and, and people in the Vatican is working on it. There are Mariologists who go over and see,
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and, and see these sites. Uh, but I guess the question to be asked, the big question to be asked
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is why is this happening so much? Why, why are there so many apparitions? Um, and what are we to do?
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What, and I think it's a, I think it has to do with authority as well, the authority of the church.
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and there's a question of that in many people's minds and souls today. And,
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and, um, what to do in a situation like this, you know, well, I think that's where we do have to,
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to take seriously the authority of the church and, and, um,
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and, and, and the church needs to take it, take it seriously and demonstrate, uh, um, that,
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that she takes the, takes these things into consideration. I mean, there was a situation recently
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here near, near, um, near Rome as well. Uh, I forget the place now it's, uh, what it's called again,
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but I looked at it. I, I looked, I also followed this case and looked at it. And I understand why
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the church in that situation is not speaking because in that situation, the church, the bishop
00:25:21.140
is being prudent because he's saying, well, if I speak in this situation, it's only going to create
00:25:25.960
more curiosity. So really in terms of the church's role in this, the church's authority,
00:25:31.180
she has to, to practice prudence in her judgments. Uh, and honestly, in this, in this one situation,
00:25:40.180
I, I, I, it was almost embarrassing to see, um, this TV, um, production on it. It really did. You
00:25:47.960
could see that they were making fun of, of the faith. And that was really a shame to see it
00:25:53.160
depicted as such, uh, because there was the, the quote unquote seer. She was involved with lots of
00:26:00.180
money. And also, usually when there's that involvement, then you know, that there's something
00:26:04.340
awry, uh, when people are making a lot of money off of it. Um, and so that's, and, and, and, and the
00:26:12.280
church, I guess the bishop there decided he preferred not to speak so as not to put more fuel on the fire,
00:26:19.380
you know? And I don't know. It's, it's not, it's a, it's not an easy question to your question.
00:26:25.880
How do people get it all? This is why I say in such situations, it's better to trust
00:26:30.260
what the church has already approved and follow that. And these are, I mean, to kind of keep a
00:26:38.020
distance in a sense, I think, you know, kind of look at it and like, sort of like what I'm doing
00:26:43.040
right now with Medjugorje, I, I look at it, I, I have a respectful distance from it. Um, because I
00:26:49.040
don't want to insult the people that are faithfully going there because there's a lot of, that's also
00:26:53.620
something to be also pastorally to take into consideration as a priest. I don't want to say
00:26:58.860
something that's totally offensive to people because if they go there and they have this experience
00:27:03.040
and they, and, and they start having a conversion because of it, well, then I must take something
00:27:10.100
into consideration. So at my role, I guess I'll conclude with this is really, I just use the word
00:27:16.300
conversion and conversion is in Latin. We, in group, we use the word metanoia in Greek. It's from the
00:27:23.720
Greek, the change of mentality. What is a conversion? What is a real conversion? And, and, and we understand
00:27:31.580
in theology that a conversion is something that takes time. It's not a fundamental option. JP too talks
00:27:39.040
about this in veritatis splendor. It's not something that just takes place. You have this conversion
00:27:44.600
and it's one, one day I met Jesus. That's it. I met her lady. That's it. Finished. And then you can do
00:27:50.180
whatever you want. No, a real conversion is something where it's tested in time with, with, with, uh,
00:27:56.960
with temptations, with different struggles. So when people go to, to Medjugorje and they come back,
00:28:02.660
as Alistair McIntyre says, we live in the epoch of emotivism. So they come back full of emotion.
00:28:07.580
What's a pastor supposed to do in a situation like that? Well, accept the good that's there
00:28:12.280
and see, and test it, test the spirit. See that, that it, that, that, that this is a real conversion.
00:28:18.960
See that this person is really willing to, to, to, to change in their ways and that they really have
00:28:25.620
a change of mentality, metanoia, and that they really want to love our Lord in everything they do
00:28:31.080
to the end of time, to the end of their lives. Then, then there's, then there's something there.
00:28:37.380
And then that's, that's where the pastoral role comes in for us. It's like to, to, um, to encourage,
00:28:43.260
you know, and what do we see in Medjugorje, for instance, is people going to confession, people
00:28:48.260
doing more, there's very, it's very Christotentric, a lot of confessions, a lot of adoration of our
00:28:53.340
Lord in the sacraments. Okay. Bring that to the, to your churches, bring that to your, to your, um,
00:28:59.760
parishes, bring that mentality of praying the rosary, of adoration, of frequent confession,
00:29:07.100
of reception of the Eucharist. If that's happening in the parishes, God bless you. That, that, that's,
00:29:12.940
Yes. I got from, uh, 1 Thessalonians, as you were speaking, I mean, it reminds of this verse here
00:29:20.740
from 1 Thessalonians, um, do not quench the spirit, do not treat prophecies with contempt,
00:29:27.600
but test them all, hold on to that which is good, reject every kind of evil. Um, Gene, tell us, um,
00:29:37.380
with regard to, uh, the already approved apparitions, particularly Fatima, as you said,
00:29:42.660
it's directed at the whole wide world. What is the severity, the, the need to engage in this right
00:29:50.000
now? It's huge. And all the confusion, it can be cleared up pretty simply. There's basically three
00:29:57.140
classes that we need to look at. There's unapproved private revelation. We got to just throw, we got
00:30:01.900
to just set that aside because that'll just confuse everyone, right? We should hold out until the church
00:30:06.720
gives the final approval. So we're speaking about, we talk about private revelation. We always mean
00:30:11.860
approved private revelation. Now, and we're in that category. There's only two, there's only two
00:30:16.760
classes there. Those messages that are directed at you and those messages that are not directed at you.
00:30:24.460
Almost none of the private revelations are, have, have an extra step on top of living a normal Catholic
00:30:30.520
life of holiness. Almost none of those messages have something that you were specifically required to
00:30:36.340
do. Fatima actually gives you specific steps to take on top of living the normal life of holiness
00:30:42.340
and being Catholic. And that's what, like we said before, the blue army pledge of, uh, first Saturday
00:30:48.960
devotion, wearing your Brown scapular as a sign of your consecration, offer up, offering, offering up
00:30:53.300
your sufferings and daily duties and praying the rosary every day. That was, that was written by a sister
00:30:58.900
Lucia herself. And immediately the Bishop of Fatima said, promulgate, this is coming from me.
00:31:04.240
This is light years different than Medjugorje or any of these non-approved private revelations.
00:31:09.480
So we don't want the listeners to get it twisted. This is approved private revelation that's directed
00:31:15.040
at you. And the fifth ladder in council back in 1516 actually talks about that. It says, and this is
00:31:21.860
the quote from the fifth ladder in council. If the Lord reveals to certain of them by some inspiration,
00:31:26.700
some future events in the church of God, as he promises by the prophet Amos. And as the apostle
00:31:32.820
Paul, the chief preacher says, do not quench the spirit, do not despise prophesying for we have no
00:31:39.300
wish for them to be counted with the other group of storytellers and liars or to be otherwise hindered.
00:31:45.980
So that's speaking directly there of what we said about unapproved private revelation.
00:31:50.740
And then the quote goes on to say, for as Ambrose bears witness, the grace of the spirit himself
00:31:56.440
is being extinguished. If fervor in those beginning to speak is quieted by contradiction in that case
00:32:03.000
or wrong is certainly done to the Holy spirit. That is, that is extremely powerful. And like we
00:32:09.540
said, apocalyptic, I can't even stress the importance of this because everything that we
00:32:14.880
see, the problems of the world, abortion problems in the liturgy problems with doctrine,
00:32:20.240
it is all symptomatic of us not doing what our lady of Fatima says. So we have to make this as
00:32:26.340
clear as possible for people cut through all the garbage of non-approved private revelation and say,
00:32:31.260
no, this is Fatima isn't. Let me, let me, let me stop you there. Um, you can't say that because you
00:32:38.500
can't call garbage all non-approved because as we said in the beginning, Fatima was unapproved when all
00:32:44.440
they went there. And if so, we tell them that was all garbage. Don't go. You'd be saying, don't go
00:32:49.560
to Fatima. You'd be saying, don't go to Fatima when the miracle of sun is happening. Don't go to
00:32:53.960
Lourdes when the miracles are happening. So it's not that they're garbage. It's that it's a different
00:32:59.880
category and that we can totally agree on. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Just as long as we have those
00:33:07.900
categories proper, then it makes sense. I just didn't want anyone to get confused that we want to know
00:33:12.980
that when something actually is approved, we really have to dial in and, you know, put on our
00:33:17.540
thinking caps and do those steps. In, in one category, the category of unapproved, we can go
00:33:25.140
there. We can look at it. We can, as father said, look at the fruits, look at the people who are
00:33:30.900
saying that they're receiving private revelation. Are they, are they normal Catholics? Are they just
00:33:36.380
faithful Catholics, uh, not making a mint of money off it? Or they, are they, you know, living
00:33:42.580
holy lives or trying to, that's all a matter of discernment. We take that with a, with a grain of
00:33:48.700
salt, if you will, of discernment. Once they're approved, there's no longer a question of, hmm,
00:33:55.100
I got to look at this and think what it, no, we're required to do what our, what Our Lady of Fatima,
00:34:00.680
uh, said that we need to do. And if we don't do that, we do that. We, we leave that out to our peril,
00:34:07.580
the peril of the church, uh, and our own spiritual lives as well. Father, we'll leave last take on to
00:34:14.200
you. Oh, well, no, there's, um, there's really a lot to be said about the, the, uh, the message of
00:34:23.160
Fatima and the, even you can talk about the whole consecration of Russia and all that. And so, but I,
00:34:29.700
we don't want to really get into all that right now. Um, but, but we do see, I know, I don't want
00:34:38.440
to get into that. There's a, there's a lot to be said on that point and that, that point about the
00:34:41.680
consecration of Russia. Um, Jean, might you, might you think to address that? Because that, that is a
00:34:48.320
huge issue with regard to Fatima. And, um, it, it, it remains like our Lady was super specific
00:34:58.120
on it needs to be done. And when the popes, different popes tried to do it, um, initially
00:35:03.100
even mentioning Russia, but not done with all the bishops, it was always, nope, not good enough.
00:35:07.660
Nope, not good enough. And so I don't know if you want to speak to that, Jean, but where are we at on
00:35:12.920
that score? And is there something lacking still there? Yeah, I, I, I try to focus on what's going
00:35:18.820
to unite everyone back to the whole, you know, the, the unite the clans. And we all know that when,
00:35:23.800
regardless of whether the consecration of Russia was done properly, we know that when enough
00:35:27.880
Catholics do what our Lady of Fatima asked to do, those, those steps of that blue army pledge,
00:35:33.100
then we'll see the triumph of the immaculate heart of Mary. So if that means the consecration
00:35:38.940
wasn't done and enough Catholics do the, the, the, um, blue army pledge, then the Pope will get the
00:35:44.480
grace to properly consecrate Russia. Or if Russia was already consecrated and still, we're still
00:35:50.780
missing the triumph of Mary. So clearly not enough Catholics have lived that blue army pledge.
00:35:55.860
Either way, it doesn't change our marching order. So what I like to do to try to be more,
00:36:00.220
you know, so every obviously bring everyone together, unite the clans. And that would be
00:36:04.620
make sure all of us do our part. And then we pray for the Pope and the bishops to do,
00:36:09.420
to do their part. And when enough people live the Fatima message, then we'll get the triumph.
00:36:14.760
We know we haven't seen the triumph that everyone can agree on. So let's, let's do our part in
00:36:19.600
contributing to that. Let's, let's, while people are thinking about this, what are the requirements?
00:36:24.140
Because I, I'm sure a lot of people right now are thinking, wait a minute, what are the requirements?
00:36:28.620
Tell us those please. Yes. So number one, it's offer up your daily duties and sufferings,
00:36:34.020
according to your state of life, where the Brown scapular is a sign of our consecration,
00:36:40.160
pray the rosary every day and the first Saturday devotion. So receiving communion on the first
00:36:47.220
Saturday, going to, going to confession, meditating for 15 minutes on one or more of the mysteries of
00:36:52.480
the rosary. What did I miss there? Communion, penance, Eucharist, rosary, and meditation,
00:37:00.720
the rosary, which you're doing every day anyway. And then, and the confession is within eight days
00:37:06.700
of the first Saturday, first Saturday of the month. Yes. And so when, when enough people do this,
00:37:13.920
that's when we'll finally see the triumph of the immaculate heart of Mary. So we can be sure not
00:37:18.780
enough people are, are taking that action. And this is, this is basically the key that unlocks the door
00:37:24.280
and there's no other way. There's no other solution. When sister Lucia wrote that pledge back
00:37:30.420
in 1946, the Bishop of Fatima immediately said, promulgate, this is coming from me. So it's,
00:37:37.080
you know, couldn't be more clear on marching orders. Let's unpack that a little bit. The, the grace
00:37:42.740
that's needed from heaven to bring about the triumph of the immaculate heart. This amazing period that
00:37:50.240
we're waiting for in human history, where Mary's immaculate heart will triumph over the forces of
00:37:57.460
evil for a time, but nonetheless, in a way that heaven's never had triumphed on earth before,
00:38:05.420
is promised to us and waiting for enough of us to do what was to be done. And yes, as you said,
00:38:13.420
Jane, in your, in your, uh, address that basically you have to do what it's addressed to you.
00:38:20.300
So the laity don't have to worry so much about the part of her message addressed to the Holy Father,
00:38:26.980
to the Pope. Um, that has to be done by them. But even in that, their grace to do that comes from
00:38:34.120
the laity fulfilling their part of the deal, which is this scapular, uh, the, the, the first five
00:38:41.480
Saturdays. And it is, you know, pretty simple, but a lot of people I've found anyway, even the daily
00:38:50.920
masters who are going to mass every day. So they're fulfilling the, uh, first Saturday devotion all by
00:38:55.880
itself. People, often those people are going to mass once every two weeks, which by the way,
00:39:01.160
will get you a plenary indulgence all the time, because then you're always within eight days
00:39:04.500
on either side of, uh, of, um, that necessity. But one of the things they skip, because most of
00:39:11.300
those guys say the daily rosary anyway, but what's often overlooked is that 15 minutes of
00:39:16.920
meditation apart from the rosary. It's not a two for one. You can't go, I prayed the rosary for 15
00:39:21.920
minutes. And so that counts for both. No, um, it is about meditation apart from the saying of the rosary
00:39:29.020
on the mysteries of the rosary. Um, in fact, a couple of years ago, I found that was so undone
00:39:37.260
by people, even when they wanted to, um, that I looked for a meditation, couldn't find one. So I
00:39:43.720
did one myself. So we put that out on life site every first Saturday. Um, and so hopefully that's
00:39:48.900
of help to people so that they can engage in this meditation. Follow your take. Uh, I I'm sorry.
00:39:55.720
Could I intervene right now? Yeah, please. Oh, thank you. I'm sorry. I didn't hear what you said.
00:40:00.600
I I'm glad about the last point you just made, um, is important because this is what, what you see
00:40:07.480
with the great spiritual masters like St. Teresa of Avila, who emphasized that this with her sisters,
00:40:14.420
this is what she was seeing as a problem that they were just praying the vocal prayers. And so in their
00:40:19.200
interior castle, she talks about this, you know, the, the vocal prayers of the first prayers,
00:40:23.220
they're important, but it's like, kind of like, it's like the, the, the meat and potatoes that
00:40:27.640
are there always for every meal that there was bread at every meal, let's say. And, uh, but then
00:40:33.300
there's going to be more and that's the meditation. That's the reflection. And another point that I
00:40:38.280
wanted to make comes from, uh, St. Teresa's little way, St. Teresa of this year is a little way.
00:40:44.520
And I'm going to use a citation from St. Thomas Aquinas first.
00:40:47.700
Actus credendi non terminator adenunciabile sed adrem. The act of belief does not terminate in what
00:40:55.800
is announced, but in the rest, in the thing. So the way that the, the, the, the saints teach us so
00:41:02.620
much about the rest, the thing that the, the heart of the matter is in the sanctity of the, of the
00:41:09.920
moment and of the thing of the little way, essentially, you know, oftentimes people think, well,
00:41:14.580
the little way it sounds so banal. No, because living intensely, the presence of God in your
00:41:20.800
life, living intensely, the rosary, living intensely with contemplation, everything that is
00:41:25.580
asked, that's very simple, but you live it with intensity, with love, because you have to have
00:41:32.100
love. You have to have a conversion of heart. You're not going to be going to heaven just for
00:41:36.400
the, what, you know, the demons know a lot and they don't have, but they don't have love.
00:41:40.300
They don't have, the will is not there. St. Francis of Sales once asked,
00:41:43.980
was once asked, is, is it enough? How am I to love God? He said, do you want to love him? And
00:41:51.760
the person said, yes, then that's the beginning because then the grace of God can come in that
00:41:57.620
grace, which is the qualitative entity that comes in and comes in and changes you, forms you, transforms
00:42:03.980
you. That comes into the, the heart of each moment of your life. And if we learn to live life like
00:42:10.560
that, you know, we live life so that we see, you know, that we, we see how every moment of our life
00:42:18.440
is a moment of conversion, is a moment of changes. And we see that there's a constant conversation
00:42:26.360
with God. Also there's a constant conversation with God. I also like John Henry, what you said
00:42:30.540
about, you know, how you offer, like you offer your day, you offer the 15 minutes after a communion
00:42:39.780
when you've received the Eucharist. Those are very important moments, the beginning of the day,
00:42:44.580
the end of the day, when you receive in preparation for mass. And when you receive communion,
00:42:50.560
when you've got Jesus within you, that concreteness is so important because it's getting used to that.
00:42:58.000
That's going to, that's going to have a lot of meaning later on because we have to prepare
00:43:03.320
ourselves just like the, the, the prudent virgins in Matthew 25. We have to prepare ourselves for when
00:43:08.820
our bride comes, excuse me, for when the groom comes, the bride needs to prepare for when the groom
00:43:14.340
comes, you know, and, and that takes preserving, preserving those oils, which is the oils of grace
00:43:23.120
that God has there for us, spending our life doing that because so much of, of what, of our salvation
00:43:30.300
depends on how we die. And so you want to prepare yourself for that moment. And, and you can't just,
00:43:37.760
you know, you can't just expect, uh, to be ready, you know, uh, without given, uh, preparation without
00:43:45.340
the love that's there and, and asking like, you know, St. Joseph helped with the holy death and all
00:43:50.780
that, all of these things, all of these, uh, all the teachings of the saints, all the teachings of
00:43:59.680
theology, all the teachings of spiritual theology at that have to serve at the Saros animarum, for the
00:44:06.880
salvation of souls and of concrete souls, because in the end of the day, it's a, it's your salvation
00:44:14.740
that's at stake, your individual salvation that you have come to by yourself, of course, but also
00:44:22.520
with the help of, of, of those around you. You know, um, there was a passage in Luke chapter four,
00:44:30.580
I believe, um, where it was just a recent passage in the liturgy, uh, where Jesus, um, the,
00:44:39.320
the people of Nazareth were asking him to make a miracle. He said, no, I'm going to make a miracle.
00:44:45.120
And he talks about, uh, the, uh, the, the miracle of the Syrian and the, uh, I think it was
00:44:53.700
Amin in the, in the, in the, in the river Jordan that he comes into Syria with the leprosy. And he
00:45:00.320
says that, he says that that person came in with faith that, and, or also the woman with a hemorrhage
00:45:07.580
that touches him. She feels, you know, that's the beginning in the, in the Catechism of the Catholic
00:45:11.100
Church, the, the addition from 1990, you see that the message of the sacraments begins with this,
00:45:19.060
the, the, uh, an image of the hemorrhage, the woman with a hemorrhage touching Jesus. She doesn't
00:45:25.200
touch him like everyone else touches him. She touches him with faith. She touches him with
00:45:31.260
intention. So the object, the intention, and the circumstances come into the moral act.
00:45:35.980
And what is the intention with which you begin your day? What is the intention with which you do
00:45:40.680
each little thing? And then will our Lord Jesus Christ come into contact with you? And that's,
00:45:46.980
that's the importance of the sacraments, the contact with Christ. And, and that's what all
00:45:51.840
of this ends up leading us to. And, uh, if our lady has said that for greater contact with Christ,
00:45:57.180
you need to do, uh, those precepts, do them, do them with that same love though, with that same
00:46:03.700
intensity, with that same intention. And, and that's the, that's the little way. And then one last note on
00:46:09.980
this, the little way are, when St. Teresa developed this in her own life, and she was
00:46:16.860
not a pushover, uh, easygoing kind of person. She was very choleric actually. So a 50, a 15 year
00:46:23.120
old that goes to the, to see the Pope in order to get permission to get into the Carmel is not a
00:46:26.980
pushover. So she was a very tough girl. And, um, and, and so we have to listen to what she says to,
00:46:34.340
and she was having trouble because the Jansenist in the Jansenist France, um, the, the, it was also
00:46:41.000
always talking about hell, hell, hell, which is great. It's great though, for those that are, you
00:46:46.920
know, that are, that are having a, that are having, that are taking it easy, that have too much
00:46:50.960
acedia, you know, that, that, that are, don't, don't have a very intense spiritual life. But for
00:46:56.580
someone as scrupulous as she, or someone as scrupulous as Saving Nations of Loyola, you need to have
00:47:03.240
something to encourage you. You can't be constantly be battered over with hell, hell, hell, hell, hell.
00:47:07.200
And, um, and I had an experience like this reading her last week. I'd read, I'd read her after reading
00:47:14.880
the dreams of St. John Bosco, uh, to the, to the, to about his, the boys going to hell. And I was like,
00:47:22.780
oh, I was just feeling down because I was thinking like, oh, she's so easy to go to hell. And it is, I
00:47:27.780
mean, it's so easy to go to hell, so easy to go to purgatory, uh, very quickly. Going, going to heaven is not
00:47:34.300
easy. And, you know, reading St. Pio Patricina, son, son, uh, Nicola Tolentino, I mean, all the
00:47:41.560
saints in Italy, there's so many of these saints that bring, really bring out how hard it is to go
00:47:46.180
to heaven, you know, and for us priests, you know, it's really, it's heavy for us. So I was kind of
00:47:51.440
like a little bit overwhelmed last week as a priest thinking, my gosh, I've got so many souls. I've got
00:47:56.320
everything I say, everything I got to be careful. And then this, this really hit me, you know, and
00:48:04.440
it made sense theologically, you know, um, because it made sense that it's on the concrete. So if I can
00:48:11.620
do a lot, if I can make of the little, if I can make of what is natural, supernatural, if I can make
00:48:20.660
of what is ordinary, extraordinary, if I can be artistic about my faith in a sense, to be creative
00:48:26.980
with it, all the better, all the better. And it gives me a lot of hope, you know? And so, um, St.
00:48:34.740
Thomas Aquinas on this, I'll conclude with this. He says that, uh, sometimes there's something positive
00:48:40.660
about anger. And he says, it's positive when you're, when it's justified, obviously, you know,
00:48:47.440
when it's justified, when it's, uh, when it's quick, when it's, uh, proportionate, unlike the
00:48:56.060
anger of the devil to our Lord, which is not justified, which is not quick and was not proportionate
00:49:00.320
as you see in the passion. But this is also there because it's there to give us hope. Because if you
00:49:06.840
have, if you have, you are, if you're going to fight for something, something concrete, something
00:49:12.440
reachable, then you have hope. And so in the spiritual life, we must have hope. We must use
00:49:18.720
our, our, our strength for that. Father, thank you for that. Gene, last word over to you.
00:49:27.000
Yeah, just, you know, with all the confusion, all the crisis in the world, in the church, this is,
00:49:30.980
this is our one answer. This is the, this is the only answer that, that heaven willed to give us. So
00:49:35.480
it's not like we're making it up on our own. And that is the Blue Army Pledge. It's been the answer
00:49:40.840
since the time of Our Lady of Fatima. So make sure we're enrolled in the brown scapular,
00:49:45.380
where the brown scapular is the sign of our consecration, pray the rosary, offer up our
00:49:50.500
sufferings and daily duties, and the first Saturday devotion, and make it as frequently as possible,
00:49:55.360
and then get as many people to do it. When, when an unknown number, a specific number that's
00:50:01.540
predetermined by heaven does this, then we'll get the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
00:50:06.320
So more than anything else, now Catholics need a clear direction, a firm purpose,
00:50:11.140
and a means of achieving that purpose. And that's what the message of Fatima is all about.
00:50:15.280
And that's how we're going to save the world. Amen. Well, you've got your marching orders.
00:50:20.840
Thank you so much, Gene. Thank you, Father Giordano, for being with us.
00:50:25.060
Thank you. And God bless you all. And we'll see you next time.