The John-Henry Westen Show - August 05, 2022


Pro-LGBT cardinal： Pope Francis agrees with my stance


Episode Stats


Length

18 minutes

Words per minute

141.2058

Word count

2,606

Sentence count

162

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged

Toxicity

6

sentences flagged

Hate speech

10

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Cardinal John Henry Hollerich's interview with a faithful Catholic in the United States raises serious questions about the Church's teaching on homosexuality and the implications for the future of the Catholic Church and its teaching on same-sex relationships.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 There is absolute mayhem going on in the Vatican, and that's being spread throughout the world.
00:00:04.760 The Archbishop, the Cardinal Archbishop of Luxembourg, who happens also to be in charge
00:00:11.280 of the Commission of European Bishops, who is also just appointed by Pope Francis the
00:00:17.200 Relator General, or one of the leaders of the Synod of Synods of Bishops, which is going on
00:00:22.720 right now in the Vatican, going to end in 2024, has already talked publicly that homosexuality
00:00:30.380 is not a sin, but then there was some fudging when it came to homosexual acts.
00:00:35.480 We didn't know what exactly he was saying.
00:00:38.860 Well, he just got to the United States, and he was interviewed by a faithful Catholic who
00:00:44.500 we have here to discuss, and he's got video of what Cardinal Hollerich said.
00:00:49.880 You're going to want to stay tuned for this episode of The John Henry Weston Show.
00:01:11.580 Richard Smaglik, welcome to the program.
00:01:14.220 Thank you, John Henry.
00:01:15.120 It's great to be here again.
00:01:17.020 So let's begin, as we always do, with the sign of the cross.
00:01:19.880 In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
00:01:25.120 Amen.
00:01:26.940 So, can you set up this clip for us?
00:01:29.780 This is you interviewing Cardinal Hollerich as he arrives in the United States.
00:01:35.840 He's at a parish.
00:01:37.860 He is at a Chicago parish.
00:01:40.000 It's his first stop on his U.S. tour, which will last for about two weeks, from July 31st
00:01:44.720 to August 14th.
00:01:46.600 And after Mass, he spoke with the people who attended the Mass.
00:01:53.080 I was at the end of the line with a couple of very valued allies, who I can't mention here,
00:01:59.180 but who I'm very grateful to.
00:02:00.580 And we captured about 100 seconds of video in which I asked him specifically about the changes
00:02:11.040 to church doctrine that may be intended by the Synod when it comes to specifically the
00:02:19.540 act of sodomy to really put him on the record to address this.
00:02:23.600 He goes on to sort of hem and haw, not sure where I'm coming from on the question, and
00:02:32.020 describing in a way where he first defines the boundaries on sexual activity as love rather
00:02:41.720 than marriage, and then goes on to say that he is open to a process by which homosexual acts 0.61
00:02:47.340 will be normalized, and that the Pope and he are on the same page on the issue.
00:02:54.320 Unbelievable.
00:02:55.100 Let's have a look at the clip.
00:02:57.240 And I would like to ask you a very clear, quiet question.
00:03:01.840 After this year, do you believe that sodomy should be considered a grave sin?
00:03:09.680 I do not know what the symmetry is like.
00:03:11.880 We now listen to the people of God, what they express.
00:03:15.600 I start getting in reports to the Related General of the Senate, and so reading all of that.
00:03:24.380 In September, we make a first draft for the Continental Meetings, which will take place.
00:03:30.960 I think that, first of all, I would never consider sexuality separated from love.
00:03:45.600 The Bible has taught, and that has taught for 2,000 years, that sodomy is a sin, an abomination 0.83
00:03:52.040 to cry out to heaven.
00:03:54.200 But the Bible also has said that we should stay with a woman who is a righteous. 0.72
00:03:58.740 The Bible has said that for some terms, it's the wrong way to the earth.
00:04:03.620 So the Bible has taught, and it's the wrong way to the Bible, to the fundamental spiritual 0.54
00:04:10.700 teaching on sin.
00:04:11.980 This is not a theological...
00:04:13.760 No, no, no, no, no, no.
00:04:15.260 It is...
00:04:16.100 I know that I am in full agreement with her process.
00:04:22.780 Thank you.
00:04:23.620 All right, so unbelievable stuff from a prince of the church.
00:04:31.820 This is someone official.
00:04:33.380 This isn't just an anybody.
00:04:35.720 It's an active cardinal.
00:04:37.580 Had this happened in the years of John Paul II or Benedict XVI, there would have been an
00:04:43.500 immediate correction from the Vatican.
00:04:46.320 There would have to have been something done.
00:04:48.400 But this is in line with what we've seen from Pope Francis on this question.
00:04:55.480 It is one step further than what we've seen so far, particularly with the machinations
00:05:00.860 of Pope Francis with Father James Martin.
00:05:04.140 So unpack for us, if you will, what your thoughts are on what you heard from the cardinal.
00:05:10.280 Well, first, I think he's revealing a totally heterodox position that should be absolutely
00:05:21.960 outrageous.
00:05:24.220 He has said, as of January of 2022, this was reported in the National Catholic Register on
00:05:31.260 February 9th, that he believes the church's teaching on homosexuality is false.
00:05:37.480 So we're in a situation where the church's credibility in recognizing, faithfully adhering
00:05:43.540 to, and communicating divine revelation is being called into serious, serious question.
00:05:51.080 Absolutely.
00:05:51.680 Before you go on, I just wanted to lay that out specifically, just so that people can look
00:05:55.300 it up, because these are very serious charges.
00:05:57.820 This was in an interview with the German Catholic news agency, KNA.
00:06:02.080 Cardinal Holerich said, he was asked, if you will, first, how do you get around the church's
00:06:07.880 teaching that homosexuality is a sin?
00:06:10.160 And his direct words were these, I believe that this is false, but I also believe that
00:06:15.060 here we are thinking further about the teaching.
00:06:17.900 So as the Pope has said in the past, this can lead to a change in teaching, end quote.
00:06:24.280 Please go on.
00:06:25.040 Well, bishops take an oath.
00:06:31.880 It's called the Oath of Fidelity on Assuming the Office to be Exercised in the Name of the 0.68
00:06:36.820 Church, which states, in fulfilling the charge entrusted to me in the name of the church,
00:06:41.680 I shall hold fast to the deposit of faith in its entirety.
00:06:47.240 I shall faithfully hand it on and explain it, and I shall avoid any teachings contrary to
00:06:53.660 it.
00:06:55.040 What we're looking at now is a total departure from that, a total departure from divine revelation
00:07:01.520 in a spirit of sort of catering to the latest scientific perspectives.
00:07:09.020 We don't believe this because it agrees with the latest science.
00:07:12.860 We believe in divine revelation because it was divinely revealed.
00:07:16.240 And for this paradigm shift to be taken seriously and to be advanced by a cardinal of the stature
00:07:23.880 is doing great damage to the church, and it needs to be corrected.
00:07:28.460 It is indeed.
00:07:29.620 And the true science actually falls in line with the church's teaching because we've seen
00:07:35.120 over the past decades all the studies you would want that show the grave harm of homosexual acts 1.00
00:07:44.460 to the body, to the psyche, and we know as Catholics the grave harm to the soul. 1.00
00:07:50.240 So the fighting against this lifestyle choice, if you want to call it that, is actually love.
00:07:57.060 It's not hatred or bigotry at all.
00:07:59.000 It's about telling these people, even though it's politically correct, even though it's
00:08:04.260 socially awkward, we love you enough to tell you that this is harmful for you.
00:08:07.660 It's harmful for your body.
00:08:09.700 By the way, just as every aberrant sexual act is, including non-homosexual, it's harmful 0.98
00:08:16.620 for your mind, but it's ultimately harmful for your soul.
00:08:19.760 So the want to change this teaching, which is now plainly evident on the part of Cardinal
00:08:28.500 Holerich at least, does seem very much to be an agenda.
00:08:32.900 But let's unpack first the church teaching on this.
00:08:37.460 He says it's open to change, but where is this coming from in the church?
00:08:42.480 Is this some, you know, in the medieval age as it was developed, or where is this coming
00:08:47.100 from?
00:08:47.280 I think this is modern innovation and capitulation to a 1970s mindset.
00:08:55.880 I'm not going to say it's specifically tied to Vatican II, because I don't think it is
00:09:00.160 directly tied to Vatican II.
00:09:01.960 But we had a society that went off the deep end in the late 60s and early 70s.
00:09:09.000 They're using the language of that right now in a very outdated kind of way.
00:09:13.400 And as the secular society has degenerated to the point of woke madness, and as our own
00:09:21.960 society recognizes that this is woke madness that needs to be turned around, the church 0.88
00:09:27.700 is about two years behind and heading full steam head into a deeper kind of woke madness that
00:09:35.580 really strikes at the heart of the integrity and fundamental truths of the church.
00:09:42.540 So, go ahead.
00:09:45.480 Yeah.
00:09:45.780 No, I was just wondering, I mean, what is the biblical basis for the teaching of the church
00:09:51.700 in this?
00:09:52.220 Is this something, yeah, it was contained in the Old Testament, excuse me.
00:09:56.220 Jesus, often homosexual activists will talk about how Jesus never mentioned homosexuality.
00:10:02.900 Where is the church on this question vis-a-vis the New Testament, the teaching after Christ?
00:10:08.600 In Romans 1, verses 26 to 27, Paul writes,
00:10:15.740 And in 1 Corinthians 6, verses 9 through 10, Paul writes,
00:10:40.180 Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God?
00:10:45.740 Do not be deceived. 0.97
00:10:47.460 Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor boy prostitutes, nor sodomites, nor thieves, 0.97
00:10:54.400 nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor robbers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 0.95
00:11:01.320 That's pretty basic, pretty straightforward, and pretty unquestionable.
00:11:05.800 Yeah, yeah.
00:11:06.580 So, this has been Catholic teaching from the beginning.
00:11:10.280 As you were mentioning earlier, bishops take this vow to uphold all the teachings of the
00:11:16.160 church, and this has been with us from the beginning.
00:11:19.160 It's been expounded on by popes, explained, and even in modern generations, has been specifically
00:11:25.920 reinforced down to nitty-gritty, which we've had to do with the church having to deal now
00:11:32.560 with, you know, not only homosexual marriage, but the same-sex civil unions, etc., etc., all
00:11:38.420 of which the church has opposed until now.
00:11:41.880 And now there's something new coming with what Pope Francis has already done, and where the
00:11:48.100 synod is going.
00:11:49.120 Indeed.
00:11:56.120 I see it as a war on orthodoxy.
00:12:00.100 There's a bigger picture here than just a war on sexual morality.
00:12:06.740 We are sort of breaking the whole paradigm of respect for divine revelation, capitulating
00:12:16.020 to the secular agenda as society degenerates.
00:12:22.380 And in order to advance that, I see this as a scenario where it's necessary to attack
00:12:28.900 those who hold fast, as it said in what I read a short time ago, to the deposit of faith.
00:12:36.240 The frog in the kettle approach is what has been used throughout this papacy on very many
00:12:42.900 fronts, but on homosexuality, it really, really did start from the beginning.
00:12:48.940 Right on the balcony with Francis was Cardinal Daniels, who everybody knew for wearing the
00:12:55.060 rainbow stoles.
00:12:56.440 And even though he was one of the very cardinals caught on tape with the cover-up of sexual
00:13:00.920 abuse, that didn't matter.
00:13:02.260 He was such a woke, if you will, among the bishops, presenter of the church's teaching 0.67
00:13:07.780 on all sorts of issues, but specifically homosexuality.
00:13:11.280 You saw then Francis progress to when he welcomed the transgender couple in the Vatican in 2015
00:13:16.600 called the Married and Happy.
00:13:18.560 When he came to the U.S. and was confronted with Kim Davis, he sort of, to her face, congratulated
00:13:24.400 her, but afterwards fired the nuncio in the U.S., whom we all know now as Archbishop Carlo
00:13:31.540 Maria Vigano, for having allowed Kim Davis in.
00:13:36.040 Kim Davis, of course, was that heroic Kentucky clerk who refused to have her signature, as 1.00
00:13:41.920 a Protestant Christian, refused to have her signature on marriage licenses for homosexuals.
00:13:46.880 There is the Pope going on about firing him, her, excuse me, firing Vigano for having invited 0.70
00:13:53.180 her.
00:13:54.500 In, this is impossible.
00:13:55.920 It's gone through lately with the Father James Martin, who has been the foremost pusher
00:14:02.380 inside the church for this new take on homosexuality, to embrace it. 1.00
00:14:07.680 And there is the Pope who has refused an audience to Cardinal Zen, who's refused to answer the
00:14:15.360 dubia of the four cardinals, Cardinal Burke and his four cardinals who are expressing such
00:14:18.960 grave concern.
00:14:20.400 But he's given an audience to James Martin.
00:14:23.920 He's answered the dubia of James Martin.
00:14:27.020 He has invited James Martin to speak at the Vatican's World Meeting of Families, invited
00:14:31.140 him to be on the Pontifical Council for Social Communications.
00:14:34.620 It's unreal what's going on.
00:14:36.800 And it's coming from the top of the church, and it's being parroted and supported by most
00:14:43.640 of the world's bishops.
00:14:45.020 And we haven't heard one yet stand up to confront the Pope, as needs to be done.
00:14:51.500 And the laity are doing that.
00:14:53.460 Some of us are doing that.
00:14:54.840 Thank you for what you're doing.
00:14:56.640 What are your final thoughts on what's going on right now?
00:15:00.900 Cardinal Hollerich will be in the U.S. for another two weeks.
00:15:05.020 He is, unlike Cardinal Cupich, a very approachable person who really, really wants to communicate
00:15:12.940 with the laity.
00:15:14.820 He's here, I believe, on a mission to engage.
00:15:21.960 He's kind.
00:15:23.820 He's a good listener.
00:15:26.720 And he has a very serious blind spot in his agenda here.
00:15:30.360 But I think this is the time for American Catholics in the upper Midwest to speak with him,
00:15:37.080 to make their perspectives known, and to get it out into the media.
00:15:42.140 One of the reasons I think that that's so important is that we have a synod where input
00:15:46.920 is being taken from a small selection of people, mostly ideologues and activists, and people
00:15:56.720 who are intensely concerned about one thing or another.
00:16:00.060 In many countries, less than 1% have responded to the synod.
00:16:07.040 What I expect will happen, given that all this information has already been gathered,
00:16:11.680 is that they will run with what they have, the biased information they have,
00:16:16.480 and make their case for a change in church doctrine.
00:16:20.820 I don't think we can win that by participating in the synod.
00:16:24.020 I think we have to win that by waking up the broader Catholic community and calling on our
00:16:30.700 bishops in a way that enables them to stand and stand boldly to stop this process from
00:16:37.560 happening, one way or another.
00:16:38.920 Maybe that's the synod doesn't come to fruition.
00:16:43.860 Maybe that's resisting it when it comes to making final decisions.
00:16:48.500 But this can't stand.
00:16:50.300 We need to act.
00:16:52.960 Absolutely.
00:16:53.440 So, you know, I want to encourage everybody to do, as Richard just said,
00:16:58.560 reach out to Cardinal Hollerich if you're given that opportunity.
00:17:03.920 But also there's an opportunity in the media, because this is coming up now.
00:17:08.860 Cardinal Hollerich is here.
00:17:10.600 The synod is talking about that.
00:17:12.400 The church is really embroiled over this question, even though it's no question at all.
00:17:19.320 Nonetheless, it's a topic of discussion.
00:17:20.900 It's going to take a lot of courage to stand up and speak the truth right now.
00:17:26.100 But remember when you do that, to do it in love.
00:17:29.860 The position of the church is a position that comes from love.
00:17:33.820 So say it charitably.
00:17:35.140 Say it with love.
00:17:36.060 Because you are on the side of the angels.
00:17:38.000 You're on the side of Christ.
00:17:40.180 Say it as Christ would say it.
00:17:41.580 He's not going to rail against people who are in sinful lifestyles because they know no better.
00:17:48.100 It is our part to say a mea culpa on behalf of these unfaithful bishops, of the lack of teaching in the churches that have led people to sinful lifestyles they don't even know are sinful.
00:18:02.740 But the fact of the matter is, these behaviors harm the bodies, they harm the psyches and the souls of our friends, our brothers and sisters, and our fellow parishioners.
00:18:17.100 We need to speak out.
00:18:18.260 We need to do so in love.
00:18:19.600 Thank you, Richard, for doing that very thing.
00:18:22.520 Thank you, John Henry.
00:18:23.260 And God bless all of you.
00:18:26.520 We'll see you next time.