The John-Henry Westen Show - Ralph Martin explains steps needed to fix ‘terrible’ situation in the Church

00:00:00.040 Before we begin, let me tell you please to sign up directly to LifesiteNews.com.

00:00:05.500 Go there, make that your homepage, LifesiteNews.com.

00:00:08.120 On the right-hand side at the top of the page, you'll notice a subscribe link.

00:00:12.780 Please hit the link and subscribe to our daily emails.

00:00:15.680 As you might already know, Facebook and Twitter are censoring what we put out.

00:00:20.800 We want you to get the full story.

00:00:22.340 We want you to get the news uncensored.

00:00:24.840 Please sign up directly.

00:00:26.220 Thank you.

00:00:26.800 Hello and welcome to this episode of the John Henry Weston Show, where I am very pleased

00:00:30.900 to be bringing to you Dr. Ralph Martin, the head of Renewal Ministries, an organization

00:00:35.380 dedicated to Catholic evangelization.

00:00:37.700 He's a professor of theology at Sacred Heart, major seminary in Detroit.

00:00:41.500 He's a consulter to the Pontifical Council for the New Evangelization, appointed there by

00:00:46.880 Pope Benedict XVI.

00:00:48.100 He's a father of six children.

00:00:49.700 He's the author of many books, including this one called A Church in Crisis, which we're going

00:00:54.640 to talk about now.

00:00:55.440 It examines the forces working to undermine the body of Christ, and it deals with Pope

00:01:01.340 Francis, what's going on in the church today in terms of our crisis and the way out.

00:01:06.120 Stay tuned.

00:01:06.500 Dr. Martin, welcome to the John Henry Weston Show.

00:01:28.400 Thank you.

00:01:28.900 It's really good to be here.

00:01:30.420 As you know, I really admire the courageous work that you're doing.

00:01:34.540 Praise God.

00:01:35.640 Praise God.

00:01:36.040 Let's begin, as we always do, at the sign of the cross.

00:01:38.340 In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

00:01:42.020 Amen.

00:01:43.640 Well, Dr. Martin, as I said at the outset to this program, it's a real pleasure for me

00:01:48.680 to speak with you.

00:01:49.320 You've been very influential in my life, the life of millions of Catholics around the world

00:01:53.760 who have looked to you not only for the clarity of what's going on with church teaching, but

00:01:59.660 also for a close, intimate relationship with our Lord.

00:02:03.980 Your book, your new book, A Crisis in the Church, is very important.

00:02:08.900 It's really important for everyone to read right now.

00:02:11.200 You give a snapshot of what's actually going on in the church with great fearlessness.

00:02:15.440 You say what's going on, you analyze it, you give what I think is the underlying cause for

00:02:23.060 much of the crisis, and then in the end, you give us a hopeful pathway forward.

00:02:27.700 We're going to address all of those things.

00:02:29.660 And if you don't mind starting with probably the most difficult one, it would be what's

00:02:33.220 going on in the church today, particularly in Rome.

00:02:36.380 Yes.

00:02:36.880 You know, when I wrote the first book back in the early 80s, it's called A Crisis in Truth,

00:02:41.580 with the attack on faith, morality, and mission in the Catholic Church.

00:02:45.520 I had just returned from living in Belgium for four years, and I had really gotten in

00:02:49.620 touch with a lot of what was happening in theology, and I was really kind of really shocked

00:02:54.940 at how Catholic theologians were writing articles and issuing reports that, well, maybe, you

00:03:00.700 know, there's some loopholes here in sexual morality, and, you know, maybe if people really

00:03:05.320 love each other, it's okay, and all that kind of stuff.

00:03:07.780 And then I was also running into Catholic missionary orders who were really reshaping their traditional

00:03:14.320 missionary work of bringing people to Christ and the church to human development, and almost

00:03:20.280 feeling like they didn't really believe anymore that people really needed to be converted,

00:03:24.800 you know?

00:03:25.540 And so I wrote the book, and I think it did help a lot of people.

00:03:29.140 But then I thought, as John Paul II carried on his pontificate, and then as Pope Benedict followed

00:03:35.120 him, I really thought, and a lot of us thought, that a lot of these issues have been settled,

00:03:39.740 you know, that we really were back on a good keel, and we had reaffirmed, you know, very

00:03:45.920 taught to splendor and other tremendous documents of John Paul II that, you know, morality, there

00:03:50.980 are some moral absolutes and things like that, and that we do need to preach the gospel to

00:03:56.140 all creatures.

00:03:57.340 But then, you know, I hate to say this, but when Pope Francis got elected, over the first

00:04:02.540 couple of years, things began to move in a different direction, and one of the ways in

00:04:07.360 which I kind of first felt like something was up was I was asked to give a talk at a

00:04:12.840 conference at Georgetown University celebrating the Second Vatican Council's anniversary, the

00:04:17.660 50th anniversary, and I was quite surprised what I found there.

00:04:23.260 It was like, happy days are here again.

00:04:25.620 The spirit of Vatican II is back again.

00:04:27.820 Cardinal Casper was the keynote speaker who has such a strong influence on Pope Francis

00:04:34.320 and the sentence on the family, and that document of Maurice Letiziae that's caused so much division

00:04:40.800 and controversy and confusion in the church.

00:04:43.620 He was really, really pushing that.

00:04:47.080 And then the other speakers were quite interesting.

00:04:49.960 Fr. Charles Curran, who is like the leading dissenter on Humanae Vitae, had to leave Catholic

00:04:57.460 University because he led the dissent.

00:05:00.020 He was invited back as a speaker.

00:05:01.800 He's teaching at Southern Methodist University now.

00:05:04.600 Fr. Roger Haidt, Fr. Peter Fahn, both of whom were corrected by the Congregation for the Doctrine

00:05:09.920 of the Faith for shaky doctrine.

00:05:12.580 They were speakers too.

00:05:14.000 And then in my part of the conference where I was asked to talk about what Vatican II actually

00:05:19.800 teaches about the possibility of people being saved without hearing the gospel, based on

00:05:24.520 my book, Will Many Be Saved, I gave a talk.

00:05:27.760 And then a Dominican priest from Canada, I'm sorry to say, a Dominican priest from Canada

00:05:32.160 who's in charge of evangelization for some big thing, gave a talk.

00:05:37.520 And he proposed that we have a moratorium on evangelization and just do interreligious

00:05:42.640 dialogue.

00:05:43.600 So I'm saying, wow, what's going on here?

00:05:47.080 And after a couple of years went by, I felt like, gee, those people at Georgetown knew something

00:05:52.420 was going to happen in Pope Francis's pontificate that I didn't know, you know, that it made

00:05:57.360 me give credence to the whole St. Gallen kind of story about people who wanted to change

00:06:02.420 the direction of the church were really lobbying for his election.

00:06:05.700 And now I completely believe he's the legitimately elected Pope.

00:06:10.320 And I'm not in that camp where people reject him as the Pope.

00:06:14.440 I think he deserves respect as the successor of St. Peter and respect as a person.

00:06:21.280 And he does say a lot of good things.

00:06:23.560 I teach one of his documents in my seminary class, Evangelii Gaudium.

00:06:27.960 But we have a terrible situation right now where cardinals are attacking cardinals and

00:06:33.540 bishops are attacking bishops and whole Episcopal conferences are disagreeing with each other

00:06:38.280 on fundamental moral issues.

00:06:40.420 And anyway, I could go on and on.

00:06:42.380 I better stop.

00:06:44.060 Yeah.

00:06:44.360 Well, what I love is that you are so grounded in the Holy Scriptures.

00:06:50.000 You have them not only in your mind, but in your heart.

00:06:52.760 And so you know very well that, you know, St. Paul, right at the beginning of the church,

00:06:57.060 took up St. Peter to the faith in public because he knew there was a danger to the faith.

00:07:02.420 And I think you've seen from your book that danger to the faith in a very real way.

00:07:07.320 I tried to write a book that would be honest about the confusions because a lot of people

00:07:14.040 try to paper it over and say, oh, no, it's the media who's distorting things.

00:07:18.640 And, you know, this, that and the other thing.

00:07:19.700 And it's not, it's not, it's not true.

00:07:21.480 The media does distort things, but things are happening that are objectively just really,

00:07:26.240 really wrong.

00:07:26.960 And so I felt like I needed to be honest, but respectful at the same time and just try

00:07:31.780 to clarify what, what the Catholic faith really is.

00:07:34.780 And even though the book's only been out for a month, people have told me it's really helped

00:07:38.780 them quite a bit, kind of get their heads clear and feel like, yeah, bad stuff is going

00:07:43.240 on, but Jesus is Lord.

00:07:44.700 The Catholic church is still a church he's founded.

00:07:46.740 And, you know, people sometimes ask me, Ralph, are you discouraged?

00:07:50.360 Are you thinking of leaving the church?

00:07:51.800 No, I'm not discouraged at all.

00:07:54.500 Where else can we go?

00:07:55.660 This is the church established by Christ.

00:07:57.760 But we need to remember also that nothing, none of this is happening apart from the providence

00:08:03.500 of God.

00:08:04.480 That, and there's nothing that God permits that he doesn't have a plan for bringing good

00:08:07.800 out of.

00:08:08.580 And I wonder whether he doesn't want the stuff that's been under the surface all these years.

00:08:12.720 We didn't know it was still under the surface, but it was under the surface, and it's coming

00:08:16.800 out now.

00:08:17.940 I'm thinking that maybe the Lord's permitting it to come out so that the righteous can be

00:08:23.060 vindicated, the true doctrine can be confirmed, and those who persist in subverting the faith

00:08:28.940 can be identified, and we can have a purified church.

00:08:32.300 Hmm, that's a very interesting thought, because that gives, it's true, it exemplifies the truth

00:08:39.540 that our Lord, this is in the permissive will of our Lord, and what the plan is, and there's

00:08:44.140 a very interesting possibility.

00:08:45.840 The consequences, though, are really there.

00:08:47.380 Just last week, Pew released a poll showing that the percentages of Catholics who actually

00:08:53.040 believe in, have no problem with homosexuality, same-sex marriage kind of thing, are percentages 0.77

00:08:58.720 that you wouldn't believe.

00:08:59.820 They talk about the Netherlands in the 90 percentage, in fact, over 90% in the Netherlands and in

00:09:06.940 other countries are approving of things like homosexual marriage.

00:09:10.860 So the effect is really there.

00:09:13.200 Just a couple months ago, we had Pope Francis come out with a statement on same-sex civil

00:09:19.260 marriage in a film.

00:09:20.220 He made that statement, of course, previously, was previously taped.

00:09:23.600 However, released now, the Vatican tried to do a song and dance about it, but in the end,

00:09:28.480 a lot of people had to admit, wait a minute, his words were very clear.

00:09:31.200 He did endorse same-sex civil unions, not marriage, and that came out.

00:09:36.640 But nonetheless, very confusing times.

00:09:38.700 We've heard from Catholics who entered the church from homosexual lifestyles and left those

00:09:44.360 lifestyles that this was so harmful to them. 0.88

00:09:47.540 It really was like a stab in the heart from the Pope himself.

00:09:51.640 Yes.

00:09:52.400 And I have to say that when I talk to people around who I know who are very balanced people,

00:09:58.360 what they tell me is that it does look like those around the Pope and the Pope want to

00:10:05.060 de-emphasize sexual morality.

00:10:06.600 You know, probably out of good motives, but really a bad thing to do, you know?

00:10:12.680 And it's sort of this whole thing about we don't want to alienate ourselves from contemporary

00:10:17.080 society.

00:10:18.020 You know, we need to accommodate ourselves more to the culture.

00:10:21.240 And then, you know, the culture is putting a lot of pressure on the church today.

00:10:24.900 A lot of priests and bishops are intimidated to speak about the truth about these things

00:10:28.720 anymore.

00:10:29.600 You know, if you talk about the truth about sexual morality, for example, you'll be called

00:10:33.260 hate haters and hate speakers and things like that.

00:10:37.440 And so a lot of bishops and a lot of priests, when these texts come up in the liturgy, which

00:10:42.120 they come up all the time about the final judgment, about the need for salvation, about how sexual

00:10:48.980 sin can actually exclude us from the kingdom of God.

00:10:51.380 You know, 1 Corinthians chapter 6, Paul says, don't let anybody deceive you.

00:10:56.540 The immoral will not enter the kingdom of God, the fornicator, the adulterer, the person 0.74

00:11:00.440 who engages in homosexual activity, the thief, the robber, the drunkard, so on and so forth. 0.83

00:11:04.920 And these are things about people's salvation, but we're being intimidated to be silent about 0.78

00:11:09.880 them because of fear from the culture, but also fear from within the church.

00:11:13.940 Because we know, just like you said, that a lot of Catholics have gone over to the world.

00:11:20.120 You know, even Catholics who are coming to church on Sunday sometimes aren't coming with

00:11:24.640 the mind of Christ and the spirit of God, but they're coming with the mind of the world

00:11:28.220 and the spirit of the age.

00:11:30.060 I was just talking to a really good priest who said he just couldn't stop.

00:11:34.760 He couldn't keep silent any longer about sexual reality.

00:11:37.420 He had to preach on it.

00:11:38.840 And when he did, four people stood up and walked out.

00:11:41.320 Well, we got to take our losses.

00:11:43.300 You know, there's a fake unity right now.

00:11:45.780 You know, there's just a fake unity right now.

00:11:47.740 And we got to be willing to speak the truth and take the consequences.

00:11:52.440 We need to speak the truth in love.

00:11:53.720 But the longer we delay in speaking the truth, the worse it's going to get.

00:11:59.560 And how much worse can it get when so many of our people have already exchanged the truth

00:12:04.300 of God for a lie?

00:12:05.780 Amen.

00:12:06.420 Amen.

00:12:06.980 So I think you've now hit upon the key that underlies so much of this, the reality of the

00:12:15.120 real consequences of sin and the notion of universalism or that everyone is saved.

00:12:21.560 No one's going to hell, the empty hell theory, as some people call it.

00:12:25.740 All of that has been much of a focus of your life, perhaps unintentionally so.

00:12:30.340 But, you know, you've really been a lightning rod on that, maintaining the truth of Christ,

00:12:36.080 maintaining the truth of the scriptures that Jesus himself revealed over and over and over

00:12:40.240 again in the scriptures.

00:12:40.940 And yet I find it, it's so incredible because that belief in universal salvation, that belief

00:12:47.780 that really nobody's going to hell does allow for anyone to allow anything.

00:12:53.720 Because, you know, really, if we're all going to hell and these two guys love each other,

00:12:59.280 what?

00:12:59.720 Why do we have to browbeat them into, no, you can't do that.

00:13:02.340 That's really bad.

00:13:03.340 Why not just let them live their life out?

00:13:05.320 Because we're all going to heaven in the end anyway.

00:13:07.640 Really?

00:13:08.380 Do we have to get it when it's so, so psychologically hurtful for them?

00:13:12.640 Can't we just leave them in peace?

00:13:14.600 Yeah.

00:13:14.920 And so if you don't mind addressing that, I think really the key.

00:13:19.120 Well, I think you're right.

00:13:20.520 That undermines everything.

00:13:22.940 And if I were to describe how many of our fellow Catholics look at the world today, I'd

00:13:27.180 describe it like this.

00:13:28.800 Broad and wide is the way that leads to heaven.

00:13:31.020 And almost everybody's going that way.

00:13:33.860 But narrow is the door and difficult the road that leads to hell.

00:13:36.840 And hardly anybody's going there.

00:13:38.420 Maybe nobody.

00:13:39.820 Now, we know what's wrong with this picture, don't we, John Henry?

00:13:43.920 It's just the opposite of what Jesus himself says.

00:13:48.540 Matthew chapter 7, verses 13 and 14.

00:13:52.920 Broad and wide is the way that leads to destruction.

00:13:56.160 And many are traveling that way.

00:13:57.900 Narrow is the door and difficult the road that leads to life.

00:14:01.780 And few there are who are finding it.

00:14:03.600 Now, we know this isn't how the Lord wants it to be.

00:14:06.460 We know that God wills that the whole human race be saved and come to a knowledge of the

00:14:10.880 truth.

00:14:11.280 But people have to come to a knowledge of the truth and respond to it with faith and repentance

00:14:15.980 in order to be saved.

00:14:17.900 And then, you know, Luke chapter 13.

00:14:20.000 People ask Jesus, will there be few in number who are saved?

00:14:25.200 Now, Jesus doesn't answer like we might think, saying, oh, chill, guys.

00:14:29.820 You know, this is just Jewish hyperbole. 0.68

00:14:32.320 I didn't mean to upset you.

00:14:33.840 You know, don't you remember your scripture classes?

00:14:35.840 You know, literary form.

00:14:36.920 Didn't say that.

00:14:38.640 Didn't say numbers or percentages either.

00:14:40.680 But what he said is so sobering.

00:14:45.320 He says, try very hard to enter by the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will not be

00:14:51.720 able to enter.

00:14:53.100 And the door is going to close.

00:14:55.520 Now, he goes on to say that an outcry happens in the streets.

00:15:00.040 People say, wait a second, Jesus.

00:15:01.340 We were hanging out with you.

00:15:02.600 We went to your teachings.

00:15:03.760 We went to your healing services.

00:15:05.120 He says, you know, what do you mean, you know, what do you mean that we're not going

00:15:11.120 to enter?

00:15:12.300 And he says, you know, depart from me, you evil ones, because, you know, you heard my

00:15:18.600 teachings.

00:15:19.220 You went to my healing services, but you didn't enter into a relationship with me.

00:15:23.140 You didn't believe who I was and what I was saying.

00:15:26.000 You didn't repent.

00:15:27.020 You didn't become a disciple.

00:15:28.620 So when the door closes, only those are going to be inside are those who have responded to

00:15:34.240 the message of salvation.

00:15:35.680 And there's the outside with weeping and gnashing of teeth.

00:15:39.260 And this isn't an isolated text.

00:15:41.240 I mean, there's just dozens of them.

00:15:43.040 It's the teaching of the church.

00:15:44.660 It's the tradition of the church.

00:15:45.820 It's in the catechism of the Catholic church.

00:15:47.760 And it's in Vatican Council, too, although most people don't know that, you know.

00:15:52.400 I wrote a whole book on that called Will Many Be Saved and what Vatican II actually teaches

00:15:57.120 and its implications for new evangelization.

00:16:00.000 Vatican II does teach that it's possible under certain stiff conditions.

00:16:03.920 It's possible for people to come in contact with the grace of Christ without hearing his

00:16:08.980 name.

00:16:09.740 But it's very difficult, and very often it doesn't happen because people give in to the

00:16:14.360 disordered desires.

00:16:15.420 They give in to the world.

00:16:16.400 They give in to the lies of the devil, and they desperately need to hear the gospel.

00:16:20.200 People are not better off for not hearing the gospel.

00:16:22.600 They're in great danger.

00:16:23.940 Yeah.

00:16:24.120 I mean, this ties back so much to where the worldly in the church have gone, even among

00:16:31.660 bishops and theologians and so on, they've gone to points of repudiating, well, repudiating

00:16:39.720 what they call proselytization.

00:16:42.620 Or that, like you mentioned, that one theologian who talked about, let's abandon evangelization

00:16:46.720 and just talk about inner religious dialogue or ecumenism or whatever.

00:16:51.020 A false kind of ecumenism that doesn't call people to come into contact with, make relationship

00:16:57.500 with our Lord Jesus Christ.

00:16:59.640 One that just basically says, oh, you're all good anyhow.

00:17:02.160 We don't have to worry about it.

00:17:03.180 We just have to talk about living in peace and joy and all wonderful.

00:17:05.880 Deadly stuff when it comes to the real consequences.

00:17:09.520 The one which, as you just explained, Jesus said over and over and over again, much to the

00:17:15.620 consternation of his own listeners.

00:17:16.720 And yet he stressed these things for us.

00:17:20.260 In fact, it reminds me of a statement from Penn Jillette, one of the most famous atheists

00:17:24.500 in the world.

00:17:25.160 He actually said, listening to the true teaching of the church, said, well, if you believe that

00:17:34.360 hell's a real thing or that eternal life is possible and you're not willing to tell people

00:17:39.240 that because it's impolite or politically incorrect, how much do you have to hate somebody

00:17:45.400 not to proselytize?

00:17:46.680 How much do you have to hate somebody to believe that eternal life is possible and not tell

00:17:51.400 them that?

00:17:52.640 And to me, that's some of the most convicting words I've ever heard on the subject at all.

00:17:57.540 And yet they come out of the mouth of an atheist who, a very famous atheist, who, you know,

00:18:03.460 really, I think, gives the, really should make all Catholics take a second look at what 0.99

00:18:10.420 they've been doing.

00:18:11.220 No, that is an incredible quote.

00:18:12.960 Honestly, I think about it from time to time.

00:18:15.120 It's an incredible quote.

00:18:16.620 And I think what it does, it shows us that there's a lack of faith underneath the surface

00:18:21.020 that a lot of people don't really believe what the church teaches, what Jesus says.

00:18:26.480 I think it's rooted in skepticism about scripture.

00:18:30.220 Like chapter two in the book, I said, is there a solid place to stand?

00:18:33.240 Chapter one, I talk about the whole range of problems.

00:18:35.500 Chapter two, is there a solid place to stand?

00:18:37.800 And I think it starts with people not really sure how we could take the words of Jesus.

00:18:42.000 Can I really trust them?

00:18:43.480 I don't know Greek.

00:18:44.520 I don't know Hebrew.

00:18:45.720 I've heard scripture scholars say this and that about it type of thing.

00:18:49.000 And then you do have people in Rome, like the head of the Jesuit order, saying things

00:18:53.560 like when he was asked about divorce and remarriage and what Jesus said about it.

00:18:57.540 He said, well, were you there with a tape recorder?

00:19:01.380 Do we really know what Jesus said?

00:19:03.600 You know?

00:19:03.760 Well, and what is that going to do to Catholic people?

00:19:07.740 I mean, it's like, gee, maybe we don't really know what Jesus said.

00:19:10.940 Maybe we can't really trust the apostles' writings.

00:19:14.040 And so I think one of the top priorities for us is to recover our confidence in the inspired,

00:19:20.660 inerrant word of God and approach it just like the church asked us to approach it.

00:19:25.300 Like in Vatican II and the Constitution of the Sacred Revelation, section 11, it says,

00:19:31.160 everything asserted by the sacred authors should be considered to be asserted by the Holy Spirit

00:19:37.000 and to teach firmly, faithfully, and without error those truths that God wished to consign

00:19:43.200 to the sacred writings for the sake of our salvation.

00:19:46.900 We need to pay attention to the word of God for the sake of our salvation,

00:19:50.520 and we need to share it with others for the sake of their salvation.

00:19:54.240 All these terrible statistics aren't just numbers.

00:19:56.960 They're souls that are being lost.

00:20:00.320 You know, unless they repent, unless they return, there's a very good chance that they're going

00:20:06.400 to be lost forever.

00:20:07.980 And so the urgency of evangelization completely drains away when you don't believe the word

00:20:13.760 of God, you know?

00:20:14.900 Yeah.

00:20:15.440 You know, can I just show people the cover of the book?

00:20:18.040 Oh, please do.

00:20:18.900 The cover of the book is part of the message.

00:20:20.880 It's called The Church in Crisis, Pathways Forward.

00:20:23.780 And on the cover is the Cathedral of Notre Dame burning, which I think shocked the whole world.

00:20:30.320 And I just felt like the Lord wanted that on the cover because shortly after we decided

00:20:37.600 on this for the cover, I'm working with the bishop's committee in the United States, the

00:20:42.960 subcommittee on the catechism, I'm a consulter.

00:20:46.140 And shortly after we chose that as the cover, one of the high officials there said, the church

00:20:51.400 is burning.

00:20:52.780 It says hundreds of parishes are going to be closing, hundreds of churches, parishes

00:20:56.660 are going to be closing, hundreds of schools are going to be closing, more dioceses are

00:20:59.780 going to be bankrupt.

00:21:00.660 So the church is burning.

00:21:02.660 And this is almost like a symbol.

00:21:04.280 It's like the Lord saying, something radical has to happen.

00:21:07.840 Something's wrong.

00:21:08.720 We have to really get into more fundamental reform and repentance than we're really thinking

00:21:13.260 of right now.

00:21:13.820 So, yeah, we need that same love.

00:21:15.740 It might say the same love that you have in your heart for our Lord and the sacred scriptures,

00:21:19.680 our Lord, knowing that when we're reading his words in Holy Writ in the Holy Bible, we're

00:21:24.820 reading him and it should engender such an awesome love in also that evangelical or apostolic

00:21:31.820 spirit to go out and share the truth of Christ with all of your friends, your family, all those

00:21:36.980 whom you love, you, you, they have the possibility to have eternal life.

00:21:40.200 And I could say even more than that, to have this awesome relationship with our Lord and

00:21:45.620 Savior, the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, who loves them and wants them and is knocking

00:21:49.000 at the door of their hearts.

00:21:51.140 Anyway, let's, let's talk about your, not prognostication, but your hope for the future.

00:21:58.820 Well, my hope for the future is not based on false optimism.

00:22:04.120 Uh, in some ways, a lot of ways in the church today, because people sense how difficult things

00:22:10.400 are.

00:22:10.660 They don't want to discourage people.

00:22:11.900 So they say things like we have a vibrant, thriving church.

00:22:16.340 We don't have a vibrant, thriving church, you know, and, and so there's like this official

00:22:21.260 policy of optimism.

00:22:22.940 And as long as we keep that false optimism going, we're, we're not going to be able to really

00:22:28.780 look at what's wrong and really come up with measures that would really address the depth

00:22:33.760 of our problems.

00:22:34.780 So, you know, the second half of the book, like you said, is the first half of the book

00:22:38.880 is six chapters talking about the problems.

00:22:41.000 Second half of the book is seven chapters talking about pathways forward.

00:22:44.100 The first, the first chapter and the second part of the book is called, we got to be real.

00:22:49.380 We got to be honest.

00:22:50.340 We got to get over this false optimism.

00:22:52.440 The next chapter is when we get over our false optimism and really look what's wrong.

00:22:56.960 Um, we need some pretty deep repentance, you know, all of us.

00:23:00.740 And so the book's not just directed towards leaders, but it's, it's, it's all of us, but

00:23:05.020 I do, I do put in there something that was really encouraging in the Archdiocese of Detroit,

00:23:09.640 where I teach in the seminary, uh, the Archbishop Vigneron, who's now the vice president of the

00:23:14.600 bishops conference, uh, uh, he said, we really need to have a solemn liturgy of repentance

00:23:20.700 before we can expect to change the whole direction of the archdiocese, uh, towards evangelization.

00:23:26.960 So he had a very serious, solemn liturgy of repentance where he repented on behalf of

00:23:33.460 the archdiocese and the leadership of the archdiocese, which was some really significant

00:23:37.600 things like false teaching.

00:23:39.720 And that's hard for bishops to do to say, we have really allowed false teaching to happen

00:23:44.540 in this archdiocese over the years.

00:23:46.620 And we have, we've been afraid to tell the truth to people.

00:23:49.800 We really need to repent for that.

00:23:51.200 And he, he repented for a number of really, really serious things.

00:23:55.280 Of course, the words of John the Baptist come to mind saying, uh, bear the fruits of repentance,

00:24:01.340 you know, actually live out what you repented for and not just go on without really doing

00:24:06.480 the deep cleansing that really needs to happen.

00:24:08.420 But it was really encouraging to see that.

00:24:10.300 And, and there's like a whole examination of conscience in that chapter that we all can use

00:24:15.100 about all the areas that we've been responsible for.

00:24:18.020 We all have our own spheres of responsibility.

00:24:20.340 And we need to ask the Lord, am I, am I in those situations as real disciples of Christ?

00:24:25.420 Am I really speaking the truth of love?

00:24:27.820 Like I should, am I really praying and fasting like I should?

00:24:31.580 Am I really caring about the salvation of souls?

00:24:33.880 Am I myself kind of still straddling two, two worlds?

00:24:38.700 You know, there's a, there's a chapter in the book called stop straddling the issue.

00:24:42.080 You know, the prophet Elijah, you know, told the Jewish people, you, you've got to foot 1.00

00:24:47.000 both camps, you got to get out of Baal's camp and get into the Lord's camp. 0.90

00:24:51.480 And so there's a lot of the church, a lot of us that have been straddling the issue.

00:24:55.700 We're sort of made little accommodations, little exceptions, you know, carving out little,

00:25:00.140 little areas for us where maybe we think since I'm basically a good person,

00:25:03.880 it's okay to indulge myself in this, that, or the other thing.

00:25:06.400 And we need to have a holy church.

00:25:08.060 We need to have a church on fire.

00:25:09.660 We need to have a church that continues to live a repentant life.

00:25:14.180 So that's another chapter.

00:25:16.380 Yeah, absolutely.

00:25:17.160 Now we, we, we need to have this great awakening in our own lives.

00:25:21.940 Things are tough though.

00:25:23.120 We are in a, in a battle in the church, but also personally in a battle.

00:25:26.440 We have more temptation to sin probably thrown at us today than ever before in history.

00:25:31.080 It, it, it not only, uh, is there for your taking, it, it comes to you and knocks at your

00:25:36.500 door, um, in, in a way that couldn't have been imagined before.

00:25:40.740 Um, what helps are there for people today's in this, in the midst of the, even, even the

00:25:46.600 personal struggle?

00:25:47.280 Yes.

00:25:47.560 All the stuff is going on in politics and the church and whatnot, but in terms of that

00:25:51.060 personal struggle where it's really hitting us in our own souls, what's our help there?

00:25:55.140 It really starts with fear of the Lord.

00:25:59.640 Scripture says, fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

00:26:03.300 We have to understand who God is.

00:26:06.060 We have to understand his holiness.

00:26:08.220 We have to understand that if we really want to be one with God, we have to be changed.

00:26:12.780 We have to be transformed.

00:26:13.740 We have to be cleansed.

00:26:14.640 You know, like when the prophet Isaiah was being called to his mission, he said, I'm a

00:26:18.640 man of unclean lips.

00:26:19.940 I can't, I can't do this holy thing.

00:26:22.080 And then the angel kind of took the coal and cleansed them.

00:26:25.680 Same with St. Peter.

00:26:27.120 When Peter really realized who God was and he had the fear of the Lord, when he saw the

00:26:30.780 miracle, he said, depart from me.

00:26:32.640 I'm a sinful man.

00:26:34.240 And Jesus said, don't be afraid.

00:26:35.900 I'm going to make you fishers of men. 1.00

00:26:38.000 So the Lord is willing to take our uncleanness, to take our sins and to little by little over

00:26:44.360 a period of time, bring healing to our soul, be deliverance to us, uh, clarity to our mind

00:26:49.780 and heart.

00:26:50.160 And then we need to hear the words of Jesus.

00:26:52.800 Jesus says, I think it's Matthew five.

00:26:55.460 Don't be afraid of those who can kill the body, but be afraid of those who can cast you 1.00

00:26:59.920 down into hell.

00:27:01.200 Now, a lot of people say today, you don't want to scare people with hell.

00:27:04.560 Don't do fire and brimstone.

00:27:06.500 You know, that's not a worthy motive, but honestly, the Lord thinks it's a worthy motive.

00:27:11.640 Lord tells us to be afraid of what could lead us to hell.

00:27:14.720 Well, St. Ignatius of Loyola, St. Teresa of Avila and all the saints talk about how that

00:27:20.680 kind of fear is a good way of starting the spiritual life.

00:27:25.520 And it's even good in higher stages of the spiritual life to remember that when we're

00:27:29.320 being tempted.

00:27:30.580 You know, so fear of the Lord, respect for God, understanding the incompatibility of sin

00:27:35.500 with his holiness, and then practical measures.

00:27:38.620 I don't see how anybody can even have a hope of surviving as a Catholic today if they're 1.00

00:27:43.560 not taking some time each day for personal prayer and meditation on the word of God.

00:27:47.800 I think it's a necessity.

00:27:50.540 You know, so, you know, anybody who's watching or listening, I would just say, if you're not

00:27:54.960 taking some time each day to feed your soul, to pay attention to the Lord, to kind of point

00:28:01.260 in his direction, even if you're dry, even if you're tired, even if you're distracted,

00:28:06.380 even if you feel like you don't have a spiritual thought in your body, just be there and face

00:28:11.560 the Lord.

00:28:12.040 And if adoration is available in your area, go to that type of thing.

00:28:17.000 Do some spiritual reading.

00:28:18.900 You know, I find it helpful to use this little kind of monthly thing called Magnificat, you

00:28:25.240 know, where it has daily readings of the mass and a little morning prayer and a place

00:28:30.600 for intercessions and a life of the saint and meditation.

00:28:34.100 You know, if I come to prayer and I'm feeling like prayerful, I'll just be with the Lord.

00:28:40.880 I'll just be quiet.

00:28:42.060 I'll just try to kind of welcome him into my soul and just try to listen to him.

00:28:48.720 But if I'm feeling kind of dry, I'll pick up Magnificat and that helps me start to get

00:28:53.440 going.

00:28:53.860 It helps me get focused type of thing and spiritual reading.

00:28:56.560 I know you mentioned, you know, one of the books I wrote was called The Fulfillment

00:29:01.560 of All Desire, a guidebook for the journey to God based on the wisdom of the saints.

00:29:05.940 And I wanted to know as much as you could know that the Catholic Church knew about the

00:29:11.260 spiritual journey.

00:29:12.760 And as I began to read these different doctors of the church, I said, you know, they're

00:29:16.320 all talking about the same thing.

00:29:17.720 They're all talking about the Holy Spirit cleansing and healing and uniting the human soul

00:29:22.560 to God.

00:29:23.440 And if we could ever put all this wisdom together into an orderly, clear way, we'd

00:29:29.040 have the best wisdom that God has given to the church through these great doctors of

00:29:32.960 the church.

00:29:33.580 And so it took me 10 years to do it.

00:29:35.400 But that would be a good spiritual book for people to read.

00:29:38.540 You know, I read it myself.

00:29:40.160 In fact, we're doing an Advent, four-week Advent mission right now where I'm going to

00:29:45.440 be doing four talks on four Sundays and Lent on themes from the book.

00:29:49.260 And people could just go to RenewalMinistries.net and register for it.

00:29:53.200 It's free.

00:29:54.060 So anyway, yeah, yeah, we have to take heed lest we fall, lest we're so concerned with

00:30:00.820 what's happening out there.

00:30:02.240 We're not taking concern about what's happening in here.

00:30:04.940 And it's even dangerous.

00:30:06.320 You know, the work you're doing is dangerous.

00:30:08.080 The work I'm doing is dangerous because when you look at the evil, when you look at the

00:30:12.900 problems in the church, it's easy for it to do something to your spirit that isn't

00:30:17.060 right.

00:30:17.380 And so we need to keep, keep in the presence of the Lord, keep in his love.

00:30:21.620 And my hope for the church, John Henry, is Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today,

00:30:28.920 and forever.

00:30:29.520 And he's the Lord.

00:30:30.280 He's the head of the church.

00:30:31.540 And a lot of Catholics don't know this, that the Pope isn't the head of the church, but

00:30:34.040 Jesus is the head of the church.

00:30:35.380 And he's going to lead us through what we're going through right now.

00:30:39.000 He's going to lead us through it.

00:30:40.380 We have to be attentive to him.

00:30:41.740 We have to be obedient to him.

00:30:43.260 We have to be sensitive to the inspirations of the Holy Spirit.

00:30:45.640 And we have to stay within our spheres of authority.

00:30:50.120 We've been given a certain responsibility in family life or in work life, and we shouldn't

00:30:55.720 go out of our sphere of responsibility.

00:30:57.600 Father Mike Scanlon used to always say that.

00:30:59.220 He'd say, stay in your lane.

00:31:00.900 Stay in the path that the Lord's given you.

00:31:02.640 Because if you go out of your path, bad things start happening to your soul.

00:31:06.640 So yeah, I'm so glad you brought up the personal aspect of it.

00:31:10.160 And while we are doing that, while we are getting ourselves right with the Lord closer

00:31:14.800 and closer into relationship with him, into fidelity to him, how can we help the church

00:31:20.880 at large?

00:31:21.460 We're seeing it, as you said, it's on fire.

00:31:24.800 Many of us in our own parishes, in our diocese, and then watching what's going on in Rome,

00:31:30.140 are confronted with something we'd never dreamed we'd see.

00:31:34.020 You know, and so is there any role that the laity can play on these issues?

00:31:40.980 I have a chapter in part two called The Time for Action, and us lay people shouldn't be

00:31:46.660 passive.

00:31:47.600 When we hear something said in a sermon in our parish that isn't right, or we think it

00:31:53.080 isn't right, it seems to not be faithfully passing on what Jesus and the apostles and

00:31:59.060 the church teaches, what the catechism of the Catholic church teaches.

00:32:01.600 We should respectfully go to the priest or the deacon and say, Father or deacon, I heard

00:32:07.960 you say this, and am I understanding you correctly?

00:32:11.240 That's what you said?

00:32:12.440 And it doesn't seem like it's what the church really teaches.

00:32:15.440 You know, that's not what the catechism says.

00:32:17.540 And if the priest says, gee, I'm sorry, I gave you that impression, I'll correct it.

00:32:21.500 I'll clarify it.

00:32:22.640 Praise the Lord.

00:32:23.380 You're taking action.

00:32:24.700 It's born fruit.

00:32:25.280 But if the priest blows us off, which certainly could happen, and says, come on, you got to

00:32:32.180 get with the times.

00:32:33.060 You know, it's an old-fashioned view.

00:32:34.300 You don't still believe that, do you?

00:32:35.640 Or whatever like that.

00:32:36.720 If he does something painful like that, then we really should go to the bishop.

00:32:41.180 Now, I got to warn lay people who are listening to this.

00:32:44.000 The bishop will not be happy to see you.

00:32:47.080 He will not be happy to hear from you.

00:32:48.720 But you have to tell him what's going on in the preaching or teaching in your parish.

00:32:55.900 And you have to provide whatever documentation you can.

00:32:59.060 The letter should be respectful.

00:33:01.560 And ask him, please help us, because the sheep are being misled.

00:33:05.700 They're not being fed the true food that the Lord wants to feed them.

00:33:10.900 Now, if the bishop won't see us, if the bishop doesn't respond to our letter, we have one

00:33:18.320 other option.

00:33:19.040 We can go to the papal nuncio in Washington and inform him of our concern.

00:33:24.500 Probably all he'll do is send a copy of our letter back to the bishop, and we're going

00:33:28.920 around in a circle that's not going to go anywhere.

00:33:31.440 But at least we've fulfilled our responsibility.

00:33:34.920 You know, at least we've fulfilled our responsibility.

00:33:37.200 I do this when I run into things.

00:33:39.340 I've gone to the Archbishop of Detroit and talked about things that were of concern.

00:33:46.200 And sometimes it seems like things were done.

00:33:49.000 Sometimes things weren't, but I felt like I did what the Lord wanted me to do.

00:33:52.560 So us lay people need to do what we think the Lord wants us to do, you know, and not be

00:33:57.380 passive.

00:33:58.920 Also, we need to stop contributing, to tell you the truth, to places that are undermining

00:34:02.900 the faith.

00:34:04.160 Yeah, I know that's radical to say, but it's true. 1.00

00:34:06.160 We need to vote with our pocketbooks.

00:34:07.980 We need to support those parishes and those dioceses that are faithful to Christ and are

00:34:16.180 addressing the culture in a properly aggressive way, and ministries that do the same thing.

00:34:21.100 I think we should maybe close with this.

00:34:24.320 In the end, as you said, our Lord will vanquish, and our Lord will be victorious.

00:34:29.540 It's his church.

00:34:31.080 He is given a role in his vanquishing to his most holy mother.

00:34:37.520 The demon is, as we know in the proto-gospel in Genesis 3.15, crushed by her heel.

00:34:46.080 And I think that's really, it's so fitting because not only is the devil vanquished by

00:34:51.220 God, for whom he'd be like, oh yeah, no big deal.

00:34:53.780 Of course, he's God, and I'm his challenger.

00:34:57.240 But our Lord gives this role to the humblest of all creatures, a creature who's created

00:35:04.180 humans that are therefore lower than the angels.

00:35:08.320 And yet, she's given that role.

00:35:09.980 What do you see as the role of Our Lady, and how has she helped to you in living out your

00:35:14.640 life for Christ?

00:35:15.300 You know, Vatican II does say that lay people have a right to make their views known, you

00:35:21.260 know, and we should make our views known, but we should also respond to what Mary asked

00:35:28.120 us to do at Fatima.

00:35:29.020 You know, she said, accept the suffering that comes your way, and offers reparation for sins

00:35:36.580 and conversion of sinners, and also pray the rosary every day for peace in the world.

00:35:41.480 So, and, you know, she said World War I was going to end soon, but if there wasn't repentance,

00:35:47.260 a worse war was going to come, World War II.

00:35:50.040 20 million people died in World War I, 50 million people died in World War II, and so

00:35:55.820 many more millions have died under communism.

00:35:58.500 And since World War II, I don't think the world has turned back to God.

00:36:01.700 In fact, what we're really seeing is something like a great apostasy. 0.90

00:36:05.900 Whether it's the great apostasy or not, we'll only know if the Lord returns, but we're

00:36:10.360 seeing this tragic, shocking, wicked, turning away from faith by Catholic country after Catholic 0.98

00:36:16.420 country, and even in our own country, so many of our fellow Catholics, like you pointed out

00:36:20.760 at the beginning of the program, are no longer believing, or are no longer obeying.

00:36:26.260 And so, I think what Mary said is that prayer and sacrifice, she said so many souls are going

00:36:31.700 to hell because so few people are praying and sacrificing for them.

00:36:35.240 So, if I move my camera, I could show you a little picture of St. Jacinta and St.

00:36:40.160 Francisco, right here, right next to me, a picture of Mary.

00:36:43.880 And I really do think that tremendous things will happen if more and more people pray and

00:36:51.040 sacrifice for reparation for sin, the terrible sins by which the Lord is being offended.

00:36:57.980 St.

00:36:58.240 Francisco, when he was dying, said, God is so offended by these sins, we shouldn't commit

00:37:03.640 even the littlest sin, and it gets back to fear of the Lord, it gets back to believing

00:37:08.340 what's being revealed to us from heaven.

00:37:10.760 But I'm trying to follow what Mary is asking us to do, because I know that we human beings

00:37:16.260 can't do this.

00:37:18.000 We need help from heaven, we need heavenly help, but heaven does work through human beings.

00:37:23.180 It works through our prayer and fasting, it works through our accepting the charisms that

00:37:27.540 the Lord's given us.

00:37:29.020 You know, again, Vatican II says, the Holy Spirit gives charisms to everybody, because that's

00:37:32.800 what scripture says.

00:37:34.300 You know, and no pope and no council can ever teach anything contradictory to scripture.

00:37:39.520 But everybody's been given charisms, so I'd like to say everybody here who's listening

00:37:43.840 today or watching, the Lord has given you gifts.

00:37:47.440 Paul said to St.

00:37:48.280 Timothy, stir into flame the gift that you received when I laid hands on you.

00:37:52.700 We've all received the gift of baptism and confirmation of the Holy Spirit.

00:37:56.540 We need to stir into flame the gifts that the Lord has given us and actually activate

00:38:00.520 them to build up the body of Christ.

00:38:02.580 So many gifts, gifts of encouragement, gifts of prophecy, gifts of administration, gifts

00:38:08.060 of giving money generously, gifts of helps, so many different gifts, gifts of healing.

00:38:13.520 So we need to have these gifts come alive in the body of Christ in order for Christ to

00:38:17.840 really be able to manifest himself to the world today.

00:38:21.040 Amen.

00:38:21.960 Dr. Ralph Martin, thank you so much for being with us here on the John Henry Weston Show.

00:38:25.720 I'm going to encourage all of you, go to Renewal Ministries, find the book.

00:38:29.840 It's available, of course, on Amazon.com, everywhere, really.

00:38:33.640 The book is The Church in Crisis by Dr. Ralph Martin.

00:38:39.120 Thank you so much again for being with us.

00:38:41.420 Thank you, John Henry.

00:38:42.160 And thank you for the brave work that you're doing.

00:38:45.860 Praise God.

00:38:46.880 And God bless all of you.

00:38:48.220 We'll see you next time on the John Henry Weston Show.

00:38:50.380 Hello, this is John Henry Weston.

00:38:52.740 I'd like to invite you to subscribe to the John Henry Weston Show YouTube channel if you

00:38:57.320 haven't already done so.

00:38:58.860 There you will find all the past episodes and much more.

00:39:02.500 Thanks again for watching, and may God bless you.

The John-Henry Westen Show - November 24, 2020

Ralph Martin explains steps needed to fix ‘terrible’ situation in the Church

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript