In this episode, Father David Nix talks about his experience being arrested for praying outside an abortion center, and how he and other pro-lifers have been treated by the police in the past and the future.
00:00:00.280Could you refrain from obeying that sign that said no trespassing and go and save the life of a child?
00:00:15.980For all of you pro-lifers out there, we're not always winning.
00:00:20.140You know the fight is back to the states and all the legislation.
00:00:24.000Believe it or not, it's also back to the states on the arresting and jailing of pro-lifers.
00:00:30.100So yes, President Trump has done pardons.
00:00:33.300Many of them were released from jail, 23 of them.
00:00:36.420But some of those same people who just got released, believe it or not, are being tried in state courts and ready to go back to jail again.
00:00:45.360And with me is one of those who is not one who is pardoned, but one who is being tried next month.
00:00:54.020In fact, almost exactly a month from today.
00:01:27.940Yes, so I have been arrested for prayerful, peaceful presences in abortion centers twice, and the latter of the two was in New Jersey in 2019 with, as you said, Father Fidelis and Will Goodman and some others.
00:01:44.600And the reason they delayed our trial was first because of COVID, secondly, because our pro bono lawyer had an injury, and then thirdly, because Will Goodman was in prison himself.
00:01:56.320And so kind of ironically, since Will's now out of prison, they're trying us for this 2019 prayer inside of an abortion center.
00:02:17.880So what we do with Red Rose Rescue, as probably most of your listeners know, is we go inside and we hand out roses to the couples who are abortion-minded, and we hand out roses in the hopes that we can save the people there that day.
00:02:32.880Our goal is to do the most immediate sidewalk counseling away from the sidewalk on the inside of the abortion center, begging them to reconsider.
00:02:41.940And essentially, it's placing our bodies between the tools of the doctor and the bodies of the unborn.
00:03:28.660Well, I thought of that line from Hebrews where St. Paul writes,
00:03:32.620And when I finally saw that the handcuffs had caused some shedding of blood on me, a very, very small amount, I thought, well, you know, for all my sins, at least there's a little bit of participation in shedding my blood for the sins of the world.
00:03:53.080Of course, only the most precious blood of Jesus is of infinite value.
00:03:57.040But we as Catholics believe in Colossians 124, which says,
00:04:00.100I make up for what is wanting in my body for the church, which is the body of Christ.
00:04:05.580And what's wanting in the sufferings of Christ?
00:05:03.340And I can say as an ex-paramedic who ran every single call with police, maybe people don't know that.
00:05:09.400EMS, we reply every single call with police.
00:05:11.96099%, rather, of our calls, we reply, respond with police.
00:05:15.680And it was so disproportionate to have 10 SUVs come flying, lights and sirens, code three, as we say, to the end of this cul-de-sac.
00:05:23.000I very much believe that probably if we could go listen to the 911 calls, which is all public, so I should probably – I should have probably listened before saying it.
00:05:33.020So I will just say I suspect the abortionists on the 911 call probably implied we were terrorists because by the time they came in, it was a big cop from – actually, he was an Egyptian, Muslim Egyptian.
00:05:47.140He looked like a linebacker, and he came in, and the way he arrested Father Fidelis is he body-slammed him on the ground hard work.
00:05:57.980And I just thought, I don't know if I can endure that.
00:06:02.000Father Fidelis is a little huskier than me.
00:06:04.180And somehow, God must answer my prayer because I kind of just got pushed on the ground by him.
00:06:09.360And God must have known I couldn't handle as much as Father Fidelis.
00:06:12.480But some of these people have gotten very much body-slammed.
00:06:17.880And as you know, John Henry, from a lot of the stories of the real – the grandfathers of this movement, the Operation Rescue people, many of them were greatly physically injured in the 80s and 90s.
00:06:30.200So the people that led the way in Operation Rescue for what we do, some of them endured very severe physical torture.
00:06:39.880So you're trying to get in there, but you know it's – you know, you're going to get arrested.
00:06:46.420You know this is, quote-unquote, illegal.
00:07:03.900Secondly, all the evidence is against this because they have the body cams on.
00:07:07.200And what we do is we take a legal approach of what's called necessity, and the best analogy I've heard is this, that if you were walking through, say, a rich neighborhood and there was a covenant-controlled swimming pool and there was a gate that said no trespassing,
00:07:23.520but you could see beyond the gate and you saw that the lifeguards weren't paying attention and there was an eight-year-old girl drowning in there,
00:07:30.580could you refrain from obeying that sign that said no trespassing and go and save the life of a child?
00:07:38.300Well, of course, every country in the world would support the fact that common sense and jurisprudence always takes precedent over smaller laws like no trespassing.
00:07:49.980So while we recognize that the abortion center is private property, the requirement to refrain from trespassing takes a second place in the requirement for anybody to stop murder.
00:08:06.140One of the examples I give is if you were out on a sidewalk in any American city or Canadian city and there were 10 10-year-olds 10 yards from each other on the sidewalk and a man was coming by with a sledgehammer,
00:08:18.400one after the other maybe 30 seconds between each of these 10-year-olds, what man in his right mind would not go up and try to stop that person?
00:08:27.760And so placing yourself between a killer and his instruments, placing yourself between the killer and someone who's slated for death is absolutely necessity in any time,
00:08:41.000in any place of Western civilization, even many pagan civilizations would consider this part of what should be part of civil law.
00:08:48.980So we take the necessity approach to say we are required to place our bodies between the killer and the child regardless of outcome.
00:09:00.640And then if people want to bring that against us, that's not on our conscience.
00:09:05.340You know, when I first joined Red Rose Rescue, I kind of thought I was joining something for the PR stunt on the whole thing.
00:09:10.040But the people who are the real hardcore Red Rose Rescuers like Will Goodman, who's done a lot more time in prison than I have,
00:09:17.540when you listen to him talk, he may have an extraordinary call, but it's an ordinary response to a murder.
00:09:24.200When you really digest the fact that this is murder, many of the people in Red Rose Rescue, they're not doing it for the publicity stunt.
00:09:31.300And their goal is just to save lives that day in that place.
00:09:36.840And they are resigned to the fact that there's a 99.99% chance they're going to get arrested.
00:09:44.720One of the super things that I've heard from all the rescuers so far, one of the things they do is they evangelize along the way in prison.
00:09:51.740Joan, Mary Wagner, they all tell me stories of great prison ministries they have.
00:09:56.720It's like whole outcroppings of the new opportunity to share the gospel, to share life with those whom they meet on the inside.
00:10:03.680Yes, it's really incredible that there are accounts of prisoners returning to the sacraments, amazing evangelization from people like Will Goodman.
00:10:12.640Some of our priests have heard confessions in prison.
00:10:15.920And again, that's not the main goal, but God uses anybody that is going to make an offering in any way that he wants.
00:10:24.120When I was booked in this 2019 New Jersey case, the really big Muslim from Egypt who ended up booking me, we ended up having a two-hour conversation.
00:10:34.540And he was a very, very nice gentleman.
00:10:36.820I don't mean to be ripping on him five minutes ago because he was a very reasonable, decent man.
00:10:43.640And we had a beautiful conversation about Catholicism versus Islam.
00:10:48.560We even discussed why do you think there is no abortion in many Muslim countries?
00:10:52.740And I'm obviously the last person to defend Islam.
00:10:55.540I think it's a wicked world religion, but there's many, many polite, kind people who are Muslims.
00:11:02.000So he very much actually understood why we were doing this.
00:11:05.840Once the dust settled and these New Jersey police officers realized we were not the terrorists that may or may not have been reported on this Planned Parenthood or Abortion Center 911 call,
00:11:15.940once they calmed down, we had some very decent, reasonable conversations about Jesus Christ, the returning to the sacraments.
00:11:24.500I talked to one cop in that jail station who hadn't been to the sacraments in years,
00:11:28.760and we had a very good conversation about, hey, it's time to return to the sacraments.
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00:12:02.240Thank you for your support, and may God bless you.
00:12:05.720This situation is coming up in one month.
00:12:08.640What do you think the likelihood is of, you don't think they're actually going to send you to jail time, do you?
00:12:15.520I believe there's a decent chance we could go to jail for up to 30 days.
00:12:21.880Father Fidelis called me yesterday, and he said that the 2019 trial has now come to a head.
00:12:29.760Our trial is going to be on March 14th, which is, at least in the old calendar, maybe the new calendar, also Our Lady of Sorrows.
00:12:37.820And I thought, ooh, having this happen on Our Lady of Sorrows makes me think this is going to be a little bit more of Mary helping us to strengthen the shoulder more than lighten the load type day.
00:12:47.040So it worries me a little bit that it's on Our Lady of Sorrows.
00:12:50.060One of the things that Father Fidelis and I were not sure of in our phone conversation, I think your listeners are going to find this pretty fascinating, was, and we might be wrong, so we have to talk to our own attorney about this.
00:13:00.520We have a very good pro bono attorney.
00:13:03.080But because Father Fidelis and Will were pardoned by President Trump, and on top of that pardon, that also got Will out of prison.
00:13:11.180And Father Fidelis was already out of prison, but they were both pardoned, and that pardon included getting Will out of prison.
00:13:16.240Amazingly, within days of being pardoned, the gears of divine providence plopped out something very extraordinary, that Will was at the Trump prayer breakfast within a week of getting released from prison.
00:13:28.440So he was at the Trump prayer breakfast after this.
00:13:31.300And so we're very, very thankful to Trump for this.
00:13:34.560But the reason why we still have this state trial is we think, and again, I'm not sure on this, John Henry, but we believe that because there were federal, quote unquote, criminal accusations against people like Will and Father Fidelis for having block entrances, which kind of goes against the FACE Act that was enacted by President Clinton.
00:13:57.380They could be pardoned at the federal level, where Red Rose Rescue, we don't block entrants.
00:14:02.220Normally, we just get misdemeanor trespassing violations.
00:14:06.960And so we believe, and we might be wrong about this, that Trump cannot pardon us at the state level, only at the federal level.
00:14:15.120Now, the reason I kind of doubt the last thing I just said is if you have someone on death row at the state level, my understanding is the president can pardon that person.
00:14:23.760I'm not giving up total hope that if we did get put in the clink for the full month, Trump, or maybe I'll put it in the positive, maybe Trump would be able to come help us.
00:14:35.720But, you know, with so much happening in the United States right now, when there's such an unbelievable wave that the conservatives are riding right now with how many people are blowing the whistle on Catholic relief services, how excited people are that Trump is president, how excited people are to expose a lot of the corruption of the U.S. bishops.
00:14:55.540As we're seeing a lot of even mainstream Catholics wake up to all this, we are willing to suffer for the gospel.
00:15:03.220But we also think that perhaps the left is going to want to make an example out of people like Father Fidelis and Will and me, because we are at pitch level in this culture war, as all of your listeners currently know.
00:15:15.440Father, our prayers will definitely be with you. March 14th is the date. We want to make sure that we're praying for you, but also all of our viewers, hopefully for Father Fidelis, for Father Nixon, and also for Will Goodman. You are the three, and it's only the three of you right now, is it?
00:15:30.980No, we have more. I don't know if she wants her name. The reason she goes anonymous is because the children die anonymous. She doesn't want her name to be famous or anything like that.
00:15:38.900Because many of these children, you know, God had a name for these children, and they're not born. And so this isn't just a game of numbers and PR and jail and Trump and politics.
00:15:49.200These babies God had a name for, and they're not being born. And so we really have to realize this is an emergency. And so Red Rose Rescue functions as emergency workers in all of this. This isn't a PR stunt.
00:16:02.460There's an emergency that children are dying at the hands of cold instruments of the most cold-blooded killers in the history of the world. And many people are called to do the slow route of like lobbying, but some people are called to the emergency response route, and that's Red Rose Rescue.
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00:16:52.200I'd love your take actually on what's going on in America, because that's so stunning for people. You know, I'm in Canada and all around the world, people are in shock because there's been, it's like an overnight revolution of common sense, you might say. But what's your take on it from inside?
00:17:06.560I mean, maybe that's a term that's all over social media, common sense, revolution of common sense, but that's, I haven't heard it. And that's absolutely the best description of January, February 2025 that I've heard so far.
00:17:17.560Because what we're saying at this point, you know, boys have to be boys, girls have to be girls, you shouldn't kill unborn babies. These are matters of the natural law, not even divine revelation. I mean, they're included in divine revelation, but we're debating things you don't even have to be a Christian to believe in, like you don't mutilate children, you know.
00:17:35.500And so that's where this isn't so much a Christian revolution as just a revolution of common sense. And thankfully, this revolution of common sense seems to be being led by conservative Christians. That's a really good thing. But that right there proves we have to stop being afraid for saying the most basic obvious truths.
00:17:54.560And as a thousand people before me have said, the devil clearly overplayed his hand through the left. But we have to ride this wave of courage at this point, because I kind of agree with Tucker Carlson, you know, if you listen closely to Tucker Carlson, he rips on the Republicans more than Democrats. Why? Because they have gone along, reaching across the aisle with evil, possibly paid by Democrats to just, you know, fake people out as Republicans for decades.
00:18:22.600And this is where we have to say, you know what, we don't reach across the aisle with evil. We want everyone on the left to come to know Jesus Christ, come to know the Catholic Church and to enter the Catholic Church. But we don't compromise on evil anymore. And I think there's enough people waking up that we could get a critical mass. To put it very bluntly, I hope what is happening in the United States with Trump happens at the Catholic Church level. I'm not saying Trump is canonizable material or any of that.
00:18:51.740But we need someone to clean house and return us to our own roots in the Catholic Church as we see happening in the United States right now.
00:19:01.080We do. And Father Murr said the same thing. Others, I know, have said the same thing, clergy especially. You know what, Father, but it's hard to imagine, given the setup of the cardinals, over 99 of them chosen by Francis, yet a lot of people still have hope. Are you one of those who have hope? And tell us why.
00:19:21.440Well, you know, the College of Cardinals is probably closer to 2,000 years old, but the College of Cardinals choosing the Pope is only 1,700 years old.
00:19:30.500So there could be a miracle around that system. And as I said to you before we recorded, I've never been accused of being an optimist, but I think there's going to be some miracle.
00:19:40.600I don't know if it's going to mean the conversion of a cardinal or God's going to come out of left field and do something around that.
00:19:48.680But I think our next Pope is going to be traditionalists. And I know I sound insane saying that with how the College of Cardinals is stacked against us.
00:19:56.080But I really believe God loves the Church more than I do. And I think we've reached the tipping point in the madness of apostasy from Rome at this point and the cooperation from the U.S. bishops in this apostasy.
00:20:10.540And so I think at any tipping point, if you look at Church history closely, God always loves His Church more than even the most faithful priests.
00:20:19.740And so I don't know how it's going to happen, but something's going to happen.
00:20:24.460And, you know, schism is the big S word in the Catholic Church, but let's admit it, there's already an internal schism and an external schism is going to be the pressure release valve for a lot of this.
00:20:35.600So I think just admitting that we have two faiths occupying one church, I think that's what we talked about last time I was on your show.
00:20:42.020We have two faiths occupying one church.
00:20:44.320The formal and open admission of that in a schism is going to really allow the true church, not what Fulton Sheen calls the ape of the church.
00:20:53.980That's what's going to allow the true church to actually grow.