REPORT： German 'Synodal Way' Is Quickly Corrupting the Catholic Church
Summary
LifeSite reporter Andreas Weiltze joins us to talk about the growing rebellion in the Catholic Church, and how this is happening from ground zero in Germany, which is ground zero for the "synodal" path the church is on right now.
Transcript
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Hey LifeSite friends, I want to bring you, in fact, I want to introduce you to somebody.
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You know we have great coverage of what's happening in Germany. Of course, we have Micah Hickson,
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our star reporter who covers all things Vatican and in Germany for us. But we actually have a reporter
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who lives in Vienna, who is obviously German, and is able to report from us from all the things that
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are happening in Germany. And you know, Germany is ground zero right now for the rebellion in the
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church. So let me introduce you to LifeSite reporter Andreas Weiltze. Andreas, welcome to the program.
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Thank you, General Henry. Thank you for interviewing me.
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And it is so great because we're able to talk from ground zero about what's going on in the church.
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And it is, as you know, very disturbing. For the last two years, we have seen the progress of the
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so-called synodal pathway that they're doing here. And it's been a great revolution. But it's not so
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much of a revolution. It's just brought out what's already been going on underneath the surface and
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it's come out. So first of all, Andreas, would you mind telling us, just introduce us to yourself,
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introduce all of our viewers to yourself, because we probably don't know you that well,
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and then we'll get into the issues. And before we do, let's begin, as we always do,
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with the Son of the Cross. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
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Well, you know, I was born and raised in Austria. I grew up there. I'm, you know, from Vienna. And
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I was actually, I didn't grow up Catholic in that sense. I mean, I was baptized as a child, but
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we never went to church really. And so that was never a thing for me until I went to a Catholic
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retreat with my then girlfriend. Now she's my wife. And well, I converted there, basically. I found
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that, you know, the Catholic faith is true and the supernatural is true. And from there, my faith
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journey began. That was in about 2016. And, uh, my faith deepened since then. And, um, yeah,
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I started, um, you know, to read up on more of my faith on LifeSite, for instance, it was one of my,
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one of my sources. And, uh, you know, and then the whole COVID thing happened and things got crazy.
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And I got, you know, pressure at my job, um, about the COVID vaccines and so on. The people who follow
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maybe the reporting in Austria know that in Austria, we had a really strict, you know, draconian COVID
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regime really. And, um, that was kind of when I kind of saw, or God really led me to, on a bit of a
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different path from my sort of business career into a different path. And I, uh, I had met Alexander
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Tuguel, who founded the St. Boniface Institute and who famously threw the Pachamama statues into the
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Tiber River in 2019. And, uh, I, uh, started working with him for some time and I worked, worked with
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him for the St. Boniface Institute. And, uh, then he, you know, at some point we just talked about, we
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started talking about LifeSite, who I was following. And he, he mentioned at some point that LifeSite
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may be looking for, for journalists. And, uh, I wasn't a journalist per se at the time, but I was
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researching and writing. So I was doing journalistic work in a sense. And, um, yeah, then at some point it
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just came up, you know, that, you know, maybe I should, should apply to, for LifeSite. And then
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I did. And, uh, yeah, now I'm here and, uh, I'm very happy and I, yeah, I work for LifeSite and I
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cover, you know, I write articles about all kinds of things, but especially about things going on here
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in Germany and Austria and Europe in general, but especially the German speaking world. Well, because
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like, like you said, I speak German and that's my mother tongue. So, um, and there's a lot of things to
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report on lately, because as you mentioned, there's just another way going on, which is, well, really a, a,
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a pivotal moment in church history and in German church history, which is, well, maybe even a new
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schism as, as it's looking right now. Hopefully not, but it is not looking good. And, uh, also
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politically Germany is, there's a lot of things going on here that are concerning and worth reporting
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about for LifeSite. So yeah, that's beautiful. What, what I really love is that all of our crew
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at LifeSite are very, very faithful and you're able to bring therefore your faith into the four
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while reporting. And so the people out there know that they can trust you, that you're faithful,
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that you love our Lord. You love the faith. You love the Holy sacrifice of the mass. And so we're
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doing this out of love. Now you worked with Alexander Chuguel, who is a hero of mine. And I
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think many out there know him very, very well as the Pachamama destroyer or whatever, uh, they know
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him by, but he famously did this work, work of the Lord, praised by various cardinals as a work of the
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Lord that will go down in history. Um, you were very privileged to work with him and you had that
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fighting spirit working with him, I'm sure. And you're bringing that to your work now. So let's,
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let's talk about, uh, the faith in Germany. Uh, I know Germans have been persecuted in their faith,
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even historically, and they suffered both world wars. Um, but even before that, there was
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Lutheranism that came to Germany and Catholics were already persecuted. But now we're in this time
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where the faithful are almost abandoned by almost all the shepherds. There are, of course, the handful of
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exceptions in, in, in Austria and Germany together, by the way, what's your picture of the church in
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Germany right now and of the fight to maintain the faith from the faithful? Well, it's sort of, uh,
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a few bishops and faithful Catholics against everyone else. So like you mentioned, unfortunately,
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the majority of the German bishops is, does not really hold to the traditional Catholic teaching.
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And we know this not just, I'm not just saying this, you know, because I already made a statement
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here and there, but because they actually voted on it. They let just last September, they had their,
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uh, fourth synodal assembly and they actually voted on texts that call for changing church teaching on
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unchangeable things like homosexuality and, um, marriage and, um, the female, uh, women ordinations and so
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on. So things that the church has already definitively taught and the matters are closed, like with women
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ordinations, for instance, John Paul II wrote, that is a closed matter. There's, there's nothing you can
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do. It is, it is settled by the church and these other matters are settled as well. And, um, yet
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they're pushing forward and, and voting for these things. So it's, it's, they're really much more
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open. I mean, like you said, you mentioned it before, these things were going on under the surface
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for decades. Now there's really sort of, um, very liberal left wing turn that, uh, many bishops have
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taken and, uh, really, you know, borderline heretical, I mean, material heretics, at least with, with,
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with things they're saying, but now the Germans are really open. They're really saying, no, we want to,
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we want to change the church and we want to be Catholic differently. Like, uh, the head of the German
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conference said, basically they want to have a new church. That's what they're saying. So they want to
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have a new reformation. And that's why I said before, sort of a new schism at, I think we're
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seeing unfolding here, unless something miraculous happens. So it's, it's a really, um, you know,
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troublesome situation. Um, but there are, on the other hand, there are faithful bishops, um, here.
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We have one of them here, Bishop, uh, Vorderheutzer of Regensburg. He is one of the most faithful,
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uh, in Germany. And he courageously spoke out against us in another way as one of the only ones
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who actually not only voted against, uh, you know, heterodox documents, but also spoke out and he
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received a lot of hate for it. And, um, there's many, there's now many lay initiatives. Um, one is
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called new beginning, but there's, uh, then one is called Mary 1.0. There are many lay initiatives
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of lay Catholics and, and some of them are supported by priests who are coming up that are saying, no,
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this is, we want to be faithful to the church. And, and, and they are opposing the bishops,
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well, not opposing the bishops per se, but opposing the things that the bishops are teaching that are
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not, um, in line with Catholic teaching. And, um, so that is happening at the same time. So
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we're seeing small awakenings, um, I think, but I mean, I guess the, if you want to call it
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mainstream German church is, is, is in a dire situation. Um, but, um, again, we're seeing people
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come up and especially lay initiatives and also some bishops were fighting back both in Austria and
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Germany, but Germany especially is, you know, sort of the focal point because of the synodal
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way and because of what's going on. And, um, yeah, also because of the global, uh, synod that's
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going on right now in the Vatican, for instance, a synod, which many fear will sort of be a global
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version of the synodal way, which is, um, you know, it would be very, very bad for the church
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and for the faithful, even though we know church teaching can change, but it would at least
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cause massive confusion and already is. So yeah, so that's, I would say what the picture
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is. I mean, there, there are other positive examples as well. One just, just came to my
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mind is there is a, a priest director of the St. Philip Neri Institute. He founded the Institute
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in Berlin. So Berlin is one of the most liberal cities in, in, in Western Europe, you could say.
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And he founded a traditional Catholic, um, institute there and he defied the government's orders
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during the COVID lockdowns. And he became famous for it. Like the national mainstream media was
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reporting about him. He became sort of a, a hero for the, for the, uh, anti-lockdown and anti-
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draconian measure movement. And, and he, you know, had the traditional Latin mass and offered it.
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He found ways around it and, and, and wouldn't, you know, uh, give in to the government. So he's a
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great example, I think in the tradition of, of someone like, uh, uh, blessed Cardinal Galen, who he was,
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uh, who courageously spoke out against the Nazis in, in their time of, of their dictatorship there,
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who the Nazis, some claim that, you know, they were Christian, but of course they were very
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anti-Christian in their rhetoric and they hated Christianity or true Christianity and the Catholic
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church. And they persecuted the true faithful Catholics like Cardinal Galen, but he spoke out
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courageously. And, uh, I think, you know, someone like, um, like I just mentioned this, this,
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this rector in, in, in Berlin stands in a tradition of him. So there are faithful Catholic
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prelates and, um, lay people. And I think I want people to know that because if you hear,
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only read the news, even if you read LifeSite, you only think, wow, Germany is basically lost
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and it may seem that way, but there are really faithful Catholics here. And yeah.
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Beautiful. Andreas, Jim and I had an opportunity to sit down with Bishop Vorderholzer.
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We are so pleased to be here with the bishop in Regensburg here, the bishop who has stood
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faithful, uh, especially in this very difficult time for Germany, for the whole wide world's
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church, looking at Germany, promoting this synodal way. One of the outspoken bishops in Germany
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who has been sticking strong to the faith, sticking strong to the truth, despite the,
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the, his brother bishops, you know, seeming to go in a majority in one direction has been
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Bishop Vorderholzer. On behalf of LifeSite News and all of our viewers and readers around the world,
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uh, we wanted to say thank you so very much for standing true to the faith.
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I thank you for your work and God bless your work in the media world. I am very, uh, proud
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that, uh, you visit me and I, uh, wish you all the best. Thank you so very much. God bless you.
00:13:32.740
Thank you. Und kannst du auch mit uns ein bisschen in Deutsch beten? So nur die, äh, Ave Maria.
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Gegrüßet seist du, Maria, voll der Gnade, der Herr ist mit dir. Du bist gebenedeit unter den Frauen und
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gebenedeit ist die Frucht deines Leibes, Jesus. Heilige Maria, Mutter Gottes, bitte für uns sind wir jetzt
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und in der Stunde unseres Todes. Amen. Ehre sei dem Vater und dem Sohn und dem Heiligen Geist.
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Ja, ja, die Almighty God bless you, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Amen. Und ich habe dir für
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dir auch eine Gebete, Gebete. Mein Vater hat mir gelernt und eine Ave Maria nach Sankt Josef.
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Ave Josef, sei gepriesen, er und Lob sei dir erwiesen. Pflegevater unseres Herrn, unser Schützer,
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unser Rater, Sechner, unser liebe Vater, den wir grüßen, froh und gern. Lär uns Jesu in dir lieben und
00:14:46.940
die Demut treulich üben. Lär uns beten, so wie du. Steh in Lebens und zur Seite. Gib den Tod uns dein
00:14:54.060
geleite. Für uns ein zur ewigen Ruhe. Heiliger Josef, bitte für uns. Amen. Thank you again. God bless you.
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So, one of the things that I find truly amazing is that, yes, there's this reputation of, you know,
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what's going on in Germany. And we had a very funny thing happen. Jim and I were sitting at a restaurant
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in our hotel. And a young man came up to us. And he talked about, because, well, he was unmarried and
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not practicing the faith. But we talked to him about, well, the faith and why not get married and so on.
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And it was funny because he said something to us that was the talking point of the left and not true
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in reality. What he said was, well, yes, I think, you know, the church is changing and maybe that's
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why people are coming back to the faith. And we had to inform him, well, no, actually, they tried the
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changing in the 60s. And that was the greatest exodus from the church ever in its history, including in
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Germany, but all over the world. But there has been a movement, particularly of young people back to the
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church. And it comes thanks to tradition. And so I wanted to ask you about that in Germany. Is there
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also the same thing? Is there, like we see in America, wherever the Latin Mass is and more
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traditional liturgy is, there's the young people. And it's a very great frustration for, I know, for Pope
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Francis and many on the left in the church who don't want that to happen at all and want to restrict it
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and even stop it if possible. But do you see that same thing happening in Germany?
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Yes, definitely. I mean, it's definitely happening in Germany and Austria, where I am. So
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I would say it's not like, it's not as big maybe as in the United States and France. These are two
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probably in Western Europe or Western world, the countries with the strongest Latin Mass movement
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and traditional movement. But it's basically the same. So the median age is much lower at the
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traditional Latin Masses. And they are growing both in Austria and Germany and in the German-speaking
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world. And you can also see, we have here in, or not here directly, but also in Bavaria,
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in Wiegradsbad, there's the original seminary of the FSSP of the, and when they were founded
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originally in 1988. And it is booming, right? They had to, you know, build extra parts of the
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building and build, you know, make it bigger all the time because there's so many seminarians
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that are coming in there. So you see that the tradition is growing, even though with the
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restrictions that Pope Francis issued, it did hit some parts. I can say it from Vienna,
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there were many diocesan, especially Latin Masses who were shut down, unfortunately. So
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we're definitely feeling the restrictions. But at the same time, you know, it is still growing
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and I think you can't stop it everywhere. And it's going really well. And, you know, most
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young Catholics that I know, friends of mine, or relatively young, between like 20 and 30
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or 35, they go to the Latin Mass or at least sympathetic towards the Latin Mass. And, you
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know, I think it's just the same everywhere. If you want the Catholic faith, you want like
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the most real version of it, like the traditional version, because sort of no one really wants
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a washed down version of the faith today. Because, yeah, it's like, if you want rock concerts
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and so on, you can go somewhere else. But if you want like real traditional faith with
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even, you know, preaching and of fire and brimstone and of salvation, really, of the true gospel
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and of sort of this contrast between God's kingdom and the kingdom of the earth, which is,
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if you are a faithful Catholic today, you sort of want that or you're not going to be a
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faithful Catholic, I think. So there's going to be, in a way, probably a good divide between
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young people who actually want to practice the faith and want to stay faithful to the
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church, who will be more traditional, or will fall away entirely. I don't think that
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many Catholics are going to, young Catholics, there's no societal pressure now to be Catholic
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anymore, like maybe there was still 60 years ago or something. So, yeah, I think it's definitely
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growing. And I think there are great examples. And, you know, the future belongs to the
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young, you know, more traditionally minded Catholics, I think. And yeah, we're going to
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see some shrinking, but I mean, there are even, you can see there are even calculations that say
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by 2040 or 2050, there will be more, quote unquote, traditional priests to celebrate traditional
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Latin mass than those order priests in France, for instance, which is a very sad reality because
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why that is, is not only because the traditional priests are growing, the numbers are growing,
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but because the other numbers are collapsing, which is very sad. I'm not happy about this
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at all. So I'm not saying this is a good thing, but in a way, I think there's no way forward
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without a shrinking and becoming more faithful, like becoming a more faithful core of a Catholic
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church. I think because under the surface, the damage is, I'm afraid, already done. So
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of course we're always praying for conversion, but yeah, I think that the future belongs to a
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more traditionally minded and faithful Catholic youth. You said almost verbatim, the very words
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that the man, priest, then bishop and pope from this town said, I'm talking, of course, of Pope
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Benedict XVI, who this was his town in Regensburg, where his brother led the Dohn choir here.
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Um, and he predicted exactly that, that there would be a smaller church, but it would be a much purer
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church. And we are coming to that. One last thing I wanted to talk to you about was just
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because the times are so dire, especially in terms of the church, and we've had restrictions that we
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watched the restrictions on the masses just in total over the last couple of years that had not so
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much to do with the church, other than that they acquiesced to the requests, underground churches.
00:21:11.720
Because while we see that in China and in places where it's restricted, like in Saudi Arabia and
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things like this, where, where really Catholics are persecuted, we're having a kind of persecution
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here, not only from government lockdowns, but even from the official church. Have you seen evidence,
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and maybe you can't talk about it, but have you seen evidence of an underground church already
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awakening here in Germany and in Austria and things like that? Um, yes, certainly a little
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bit. I mean, we, we had it definitely during the lockdowns. I mean, I can say that now because
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you can't persecute us. I hope not anymore, but I mean, we had secret masses during the lockdowns,
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like probably most places in the world had, um, definitely. And most of these secret masses
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were traditional masses because, you know, on average, you know, the traditional priests,
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they're going to be the ones that understand how important the mass and how important the
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Eucharist is. And you can shut it down. Even if you, even if you believe the mainstream narrative
00:22:08.120
about COVID, even if you think that it's so dangerous, it's still the, it's still, you know,
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the body of Christ, the celebration of the body of Christ. I mean, they had masses and, and, you know,
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administered the Holy Eucharist when they had the plague in Europe, which is a million times worse
00:22:22.120
than COVID. Like even then they administered the sacraments because they still,
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they believed in its power and realness. And, and so, yeah, so we definitely saw it during COVID
00:22:31.900
and, um, yeah, now, I mean, it's, it's hard to tell. I mean, the FSSP, for instance, where I go to
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most of the times is still allowed officially by Francis to have the Latin mass. And, um, so,
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but I know, you know, a few priests that of course I'm not going to name who celebrate the Latin mass
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privately, even though they would officially be forbidden to do it. And, you know, but as far
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as I understand, if someone comes to a private mass, it's like, well, someone's there, like
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even a Bishop can't forbid that, but, um, I don't know. So I don't want to get into the canonical
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details, but, um, yeah, it's happening a little bit. Definitely. I mean, uh, thank God that I think
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prayers answered, uh, COVID lockdowns for now are over, but, um, so I think the, the worst time of
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the underground church in the last 50 years, at least, um, is for now over, but we may see it
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returning. I think it was a good test run for, for us faithful Catholics to see, okay, when persecution
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comes again of the mass, we already know sort of what to do and, and, and, and we're not stunned by,
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by that. And so I think it was a good sort of test run. Yeah. Absolutely. I think that is one of the
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greatest gifts that the whole COVID lockdown gave us that we have had a test run. You've got to know
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who your most faithful priests are, who your friends are, whom you can trust so that when we have to go
00:24:00.160
into an underground church for perhaps other reasons, maybe a similar reason, we'll have that
00:24:05.800
experience. You know, right here, right now, probably one of the coldest days in Germany, this
00:24:13.060
weather is unbelievable. We had snow. When I flew into Germany this time, it looked very much like
00:24:17.700
Canada at home. I was like, wow, everything's white. That's not normal here, but it is a kind of
00:24:23.800
pathetic fallacy of what's going on here in the church in Germany. Things are very, very cold, but what
00:24:30.260
is true is that the love of Christ still burns the hearts of many faithful German Catholics.
00:24:37.100
Andreas, thank you for being with us in this interview. And I was so glad to introduce you,
00:24:41.320
Andreas, to all of our LifeSite readers, fans, and supporters. Yeah. Thank you very much. And thank
00:24:46.340
you to all our supporters and readers. And yeah, it's, it's a great honor to work for LifeSite.
00:24:52.000
Thank you, all of you. God bless you from Regensburg, Germany. And, uh,
00:25:12.380
This is John Henry Weston for LifeSite News, bringing you breaking news out of Rome. Pope
00:25:16.940
Francis has just given an interview with the Associated Press in which he says that bishops
00:25:21.620
who encourage anti-sodomy laws need conversion. In fact, he also adds that the church must even
00:25:27.740
fight such anti-sodomy laws. This came in a new interview conducted with Associated Press.
00:25:33.960
Pope Francis criticized bishops who maintained laws against sodomy in countries of Africa and
00:25:39.720
elsewhere. He said, and I quote, these bishops have to have a process of conversion. He called for
00:25:47.480
tenderness, please God, as God has for each one of us, he said. Going further, the 86-year-old former
00:25:54.800
Archbishop of Buenos Aires called any laws which criminalize sodomy unjust, adding that the Catholic
00:26:01.940
Church must be involved in ending such laws. It must do this. It must do this, he stated. And it's clear
00:26:09.920
from his remarks that Pope Francis was referring to acts of sodomy rather than the inclination towards
00:26:16.480
such acts. The church has always taught that while homosexual sexual acts are gravely sinful,
00:26:23.920
the inclination or same-sex attraction is not sinful. It is an objectively disordered inclination,
00:26:30.800
of course, but not sinful unless acted upon. Yet Pope Francis seems confused about this reality
00:26:37.280
as he said to the Associated Press, and I quote, being homosexual is not a crime. Being homosexual is not
00:26:44.720
a crime. So he said, it's not a crime. Yes, but it is a sin. Fine, but let's first distinguish between a sin
00:27:08.400
So, he is obviously himself confusing this situation, and he either doesn't understand it or is trying to be
00:27:16.680
smart with the media or whatever. I don't know. But nonetheless, being homosexual in the sense that you
00:27:22.120
experience same-sex attraction is not a sin, despite what Pope Francis said. Acting on that inclination by
00:27:31.700
engaging in homosexual sexual relations is a sin. And in some countries, it is indeed a crime. So, expanding
00:27:39.960
on his comments on LGBT-identifying individuals, Francis declared that we are all children of God,
00:27:47.900
and God loves us as we are, and for the strength that each of us fights for our dignity. So,
00:27:58.040
let's go through that again. He said, we are all children of God, God loves us as we are,
00:28:04.440
and for the strength that each of us fights for our dignity. That's a little bit confusing, but
00:28:09.960
there's, of course, very true what he says about God does love us all, with all of our various
00:28:16.320
inclinations to sin, sexual and otherwise. God loves the young man who's inclined to sex outside of
00:28:22.800
marriage with his girlfriend or whatever. But when he acts on that inclination, it's a sin condemned by
00:28:29.160
God, and harming the young man and his girlfriend, harming them both physically, psychologically, but
00:28:34.880
worst of all, spiritually killing them. Similarly, God loves the man tempted to look at pornography.
00:28:42.140
There's no sin in the temptation, but there is sin in doing it, and God's anger also when he acts upon
00:28:50.380
that sin. In looking at porn, and the self-abuse that usually accompanies that, there's sin. In committing
00:28:57.620
that sin, this man not only harms himself physically and psychologically, but he grievously harms his
00:29:05.160
relationship with God, killing his relationship with God, which can only be repaired by sacramental
00:29:11.620
confession. So, God loves the man also who is abnormally inclined to sexual relations with animals. Even
00:29:19.260
though it's a disordered inclination, there's no sin in having that temptation. However, when acted upon, it's a
00:29:26.840
grievous sin. In addition to the harm that it causes the animal, it harms the man physically, psychologically,
00:29:34.520
spiritually. In some countries, it is also a crime which can carry criminal penalties. So, laws against
00:29:43.280
sexual perversion in various nations are there for the protection of the population. Some states outlaw
00:29:49.980
adultery, because they see the grave harm caused to society by broken families, and the massive cost to
00:29:56.760
the state by the poverty, abuse, and neglect which flow in the wake of broken families. And it is similar
00:30:04.060
in the case of sex before marriage, where some states recognize that without support, a woman can be left
00:30:09.960
by a man with a child outside of wedlock, with venereal disease, and worse. So, most of these laws are also,
00:30:17.980
or they encompass also rape and pedophilia. Even in America and some states, there remain laws which
00:30:24.380
forbid sexual relations between adults and minors. It is these laws which some bishops support in certain
00:30:31.820
African countries. They do threaten criminal sanctions for harmful sexual acts, not for inclinations or
00:30:39.020
temptations. Such laws do forbid the type of teaching of children in classrooms which encourages sodomy,
00:30:47.820
the LGBT ideology, and more. In a statement provided to LifeSite, a theologian commented that,
00:30:55.740
and I quote, while not all sins should be made into crimes, Christian nations have generally treated
00:31:02.300
homosexual activity as something harmful to society which therefore needed to be declared illegal.
00:31:11.500
Recent experience shows the wisdom of this, since the repeal of laws against such activity has led
00:31:18.140
everywhere to a general confusion and decline of sexual morality, and even to the scarcely credible
00:31:25.740
situation of people being uncertain about the nature of men and women. So, while Pope Francis stated that
00:31:34.380
the bishops who support anti-sonomy laws need conversion, in truth it is Pope Francis who needs a
00:31:40.700
conversion. And on this day, the Feast of the Conversion of St. Paul, will you please join me in praying for
00:31:47.580
the conversion of Pope Francis? It certainly seems every day that Pope Francis is much more a persecutor
00:31:54.780
of Catholics than was Saul prior to his being knocked off his horse. For LifeSite News, this is John Henry
00:32:01.500
Weston, and may God bless you. Hi everyone, this is John Henry Weston. We hope you enjoyed this program.
00:32:09.020
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