The John-Henry Westen Show - June 18, 2021


Researcher： Vatican, US bishops uninterested in my moral alternative to COVID jab

Hosted by
John-Henry Westen
Mentioned
HEK-293 Alan Moy Pamela Acker COVID-19 Parler
Pride Month - manipulating society, church and your children Coach： Allowing 'transgender' males on female teams will 'destroy sports'

Episode Stats


Length

18 minutes

Words per minute

129.33

Word count

2,418

Sentence count

156

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged

Hate speech

6

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In all of the search for a vaccine that is not ethically tainted, people have been wondering, where do we go? Catholics especially have been very concerned about the abortion-tainted nature of COVID vaccines, vaccines generally. Most of them are, in fact, abortiontainted. How do we get out of this? Would you believe it? We have found a researcher that has been working to make ethical replacements for these aborted baby cell lines, and yet has found a lack of interest, if you can believe it, from the Vatican and the U.S. bishops.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 In all of the search for a vaccine that is not ethically tainted, people have been wondering,
00:00:08.200 where do we go? Catholics especially have been very concerned about the abortion-tainted nature
00:00:13.960 of COVID vaccines. Not only COVID vaccines, vaccines generally. Most of them, in fact,
00:00:20.040 are abortion-tainted. How do we get out of this? Would you believe it? We have found a researcher 0.51
00:00:25.660 that has been working on a solution to make ethical replacements for these aborted baby cell lines
00:00:32.440 and yet has found a lack of interest, if you can believe it, from bishops and the Vatican.
00:00:39.180 We're going to talk to him now. Stay tuned.
00:00:55.660 Dr. Alan Moy, welcome to the John Henry Weston Show.
00:01:02.660 Thank you. Thank you for having me.
00:01:04.700 Let's begin, as we always do, with the sign of the cross. In the name of the Father, and of the Son,
00:01:09.580 and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. Now, Dr. Alan Moy, you are a researcher. You are a Catholic yourself.
00:01:18.660 Tell us what you've been doing.
00:01:19.760 I have two organizations. One is I'm the co-founder of a biotech company called Southern Engineering
00:01:25.500 Technologies. We're located here in Coralville, Iowa, and also I founded, at the same time,
00:01:33.940 the John Paul II Medical Research Institute, and that organization is a nonprofit, and its mission is
00:01:40.320 to develop cell lines and therapies that are consistent with the Catholic Church's teaching.
00:01:49.700 So we don't perform embryonic stem cell research. We develop technologies that avoid using aborted
00:01:58.220 fetal cell lines in medical research. So right now, the Institute, which I'll talk mostly about,
00:02:05.140 has been really focusing on developing alternative human cell lines that are ethical, consistent with
00:02:13.580 the Catholic Church's teaching, that can be used to replace the cell lines like the HEK-293 and the PERC-6,
00:02:22.660 which, as you have talked about in your podcast, and for Lifestyle News, are used in the production of
00:02:32.700 the current COVID-19 vaccines. But moreover, they have been used for decades for wider uses for
00:02:44.480 biologics, gene therapy, vaccines, and also for cell therapies. And this is a global multi-billion dollar
00:02:55.460 business for the pharmaceutical industry. And it's a major threat to the viability of the Catholic 0.94
00:03:03.140 healthcare system.
00:03:03.900 This is incredible to me. One of the things we talked about before we began was that you've been
00:03:09.920 doing this for years. You've tried to reach out to Bishop's Conference, to the Vatican even,
00:03:16.900 but you've found a lack of interest. That's incredible to me all by itself. But how about
00:03:25.120 now? Now that this is being foisted upon the whole world, now that Catholics everywhere, I think a lot 1.00
00:03:32.160 of Catholics for the very first time learned about aborted fetal cell lines, that they were in vaccines
00:03:37.720 at all, and yet you still found a kind of disinterest from the Vatican and from the U.S. bishops?
00:03:44.780 Yeah, I would say that's true. We have been speaking for years to the Vatican, communicating to
00:03:54.840 fairly high-level individuals there, also to USCCB, to Catholic hospitals, corporations,
00:04:04.480 and major Catholic foundations, trying to warn them about that this problem
00:04:12.360 is going to be extremely detrimental to the viability of Catholic healthcare. And even to
00:04:23.000 this day, there is very little interest in helping to produce what I call, what I think is important,
00:04:34.580 a pro-life biotechnology industry sector, which we need to definitively address longstanding problems in
00:04:44.640 the pharmaceutical industry. Let's get into this a little bit, because some of the terms you used are
00:04:48.780 probably unfamiliar to most. So you talked about, yes, aborted fetal cell lines like HEK-293, PERC-6,
00:04:57.940 and others, are used. They're used in vaccines, most vaccines, in fact. But you also mentioned
00:05:04.340 biologics. What are biologics? So biologics are protein drugs. So they are antibodies.
00:05:12.200 They can be enzymes. And for most of the biologics that are produced, they use various different cells. Most
00:05:24.440 commonly, they use animal mammalian cells out of hamsters. And about 50% of those are produced out of
00:05:33.320 that particular cell lines. So there's no ethical issue. But in about 20% to 25% of these biologics,
00:05:41.160 they are being produced using the HEK-293 cell. And so that is a challenge for a lot of Catholic
00:05:51.200 scientists who are in the scientific field. This is a problem for patients where their drug,
00:06:00.060 this particular biologic, is being produced for them. So if you're an assisted fibrosin patient
00:06:06.360 or a patient with hemophilia, you have to use a drug produced out of the HEK-293. If you are doing
00:06:16.840 any type of viral work where you need to produce viral particles in medical research, you are using
00:06:24.760 the HEK-293. So this is a problem for not just for patients, but for Catholic scientists and at all
00:06:36.440 levels where if you're doing any type of viral research, you cannot get away from the 293 cell
00:06:44.480 line. It's incredible. It's the same reason why one of my interviewees, researcher Pamela Acker left
00:06:49.820 because she couldn't do that ethically. She couldn't do that in conscience. And she had to
00:06:54.620 quit the research she was doing at Catholic University of America. So this is a vast problem.
00:07:01.460 Give us an idea of how vast the use of these aborted fetal cell lines are in medicine.
00:07:09.480 So the HEK-293 and the PERC-6 is used in about 20 to 30 percent in the production. So you're talking
00:07:19.880 about globally hundreds of billions of dollars. If you're talking about viral research, 100 percent of
00:07:31.260 all the viral research requires the 293. If you're doing gene therapy, 100 percent of gene therapy are using
00:07:43.000 the 293. If you're a patient who has a blood cancer and you're going to be considered for what are called
00:07:54.760 CAR-T therapies, these are specialized cell therapies that are used in the treatment of
00:08:00.320 hemopoietic cancers. 100 percent of those therapies are using the HEK-293 cell line.
00:08:07.700 So it is ubiquitous. It is pervasive. And so the COVID-19 has now educated Catholics about its existence.
00:08:21.300 But for years, you know, most Catholics weren't unaware what the 293 cell line was.
00:08:28.880 Exactly. In fact, I remember reporting on it already over a decade ago, and people honestly thought we were
00:08:34.540 fake news for suggesting it. Now, it has applications beyond even medicine. They're actually using aborted
00:08:44.540 fetal cell lines. I've heard in other products as well, at least in testing. Can you tell us a little
00:08:49.980 bit about that as well?
00:08:50.760 There is some thoughts that the 293 is used in cosmetic testing. The problem is it's very difficult
00:08:59.820 within some of these industries to know to what degree they're used in performing routine cosmetic
00:09:09.140 testing. So any type of, say, toxicology testing, the 293 could be used. The problem is it's very
00:09:20.660 difficult to track to the extent that the pharmaceutical industry are using the 293 because it's just not
00:09:28.340 well-published.
00:09:28.960 Okay. So we've got a ubiquitous, pervasive problem in that this is abortion tainted, and this is all
00:09:39.620 over the place. Now, you're proposing a solution to that. Go a little bit into that. Not overly
00:09:44.520 scientific, but give us a little taste of what you're doing that's different so that we can get to an
00:09:50.180 ethical cell line, human cell line.
00:09:52.920 What we have been working on for some time is to develop the technical foundation to replace these cell
00:10:02.600 lines. So first, there are actually good scientific reasons to replace the 293, notwithstanding the
00:10:15.060 moral issue. But the 293 has a lot of problems, one of which is not even human anymore. It's been so
00:10:26.280 mutated to the extent that it has 50% more chromosomes than a normal human cell. So the cell was originally
00:10:34.820 produced 50 years ago using methods to what we call immortalize. That is, to allow it to grow
00:10:44.500 indefinitely. And so after 50 years of being around and growing to a large extent, this cell line
00:10:54.760 has a lot of problems in terms of being able to provide reproducibility, reproducibility in producing
00:11:04.880 products, reproducibility in trying to reproduce research results. And so this is a problem that if you
00:11:14.200 talk to scientists, they will complain about the 293 cell line. And so there hasn't been a lot of
00:11:20.380 innovation over the last half century to replace the 293 cell line. So what we have done is, based on our
00:11:27.740 stem cell background, we're looking at a potential candidate cells, stem cells, that are readily available
00:11:37.060 from newborn deliveries that can be reproduced, that can be genetically engineered and modified so that
00:11:48.800 it, they can serve to replace the function of the 293 for a variety of different, or the same
00:11:56.560 application that the 293 cell line is offering. So what we have done is taken some stem cells from
00:12:06.100 postnatal cord blood and from placenta tissue. We have used some more up-to-date genetic methods
00:12:17.780 called CRISPR, where we have made very pinpoint targeted modifications so that these cells will
00:12:27.960 grow longer than their original parental cell lines, and they will grow faster,
00:12:34.600 so that they can be used for the same applications. And so we've done this at a, at a, a small
00:12:43.900 production level. And what we are, our company and our nonprofit are, are working towards is ultimately
00:12:54.880 to create a new operation that will produce large scale manufacturing of these cell lines,
00:13:03.720 that could be used for all the biomanufacturing products and medicines that are currently out
00:13:10.500 there. So where we can be using those for in-house for our own, uh, drug development, but also offer,
00:13:17.560 uh, these cell lines for other scientists and other pharmaceutical industries to hopefully they will adopt,
00:13:25.240 uh, not just because of the, because of the moral issue, but because they, uh, should offer scientific
00:13:33.640 advantages to the 293. Right. I find it hard to imagine that this is going on. The disinterest is
00:13:41.040 particularly disturbing because even if you take it that in 2005, the Vatican put out a document allowing
00:13:49.560 for this somehow with, you know, some look at remote material cooperation and the allowance of such for
00:13:57.220 that. Even there though, and in the 2008 document from the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith that
00:14:03.080 basically repeated it, they talk about demanding ethical alternatives and only using it as a last
00:14:10.980 resort. And yet here you are trying to make that ethical alternative and the bishops and the Vatican
00:14:19.320 have turned a blind eye or stopped their ears. Unbelievable. Um, tell people where they can get ahold of
00:14:27.840 you, where they can get ahold of your research, uh, and find out about what you're doing.
00:14:31.080 People can go to the, the John Paul II medical research Institute's website. Um, that is jp2mri.org
00:14:39.780 and they can learn what we're doing. Um, they can sign up on our, uh, newsletters. They, and, uh,
00:14:48.440 keep abreast on the research activities and also they can donate online through our website.
00:14:55.080 Great. Dr. Alan Moy, thank you for what you're doing for trying to get to an ethical alternative for us all.
00:15:00.680 Um, any parting word for us? I appreciate the opportunity to give us a platform to speak,
00:15:06.980 let Catholics know what's the nature of the problem. Uh, let them know that there are, uh, 0.99
00:15:12.500 solutions that Catholics are working on this, uh, to solve these problems. Um, and so I think there 1.00
00:15:18.820 is hope in the future, um, uh, to eventually address, uh, a problem that is vexing, um, the Catholic
00:15:29.080 religious market. Dr. Alan Moy, thanks for being with us on this episode of the John Henry Weston
00:15:33.360 show. Well, thank you. God bless you and God bless all of you. We'll see you next time.
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