The John-Henry Westen Show - Skeptics SHOCKED over New Guadalupe Tilma Doc ｜ Not Made by Human Hands

00:00:00.000 Nobody could paint that. It's medically how the human eyeball works, and that's how it is in the

00:00:05.700 tunnel. There is a new documentary dropping December 12th of this year, and it's called

00:00:13.720 Not Made by Human Hands. We're here with the creators, Zach Brakefield and Whitney Hetzel.

00:00:19.960 This is about Our Lady of Guadalupe, about the incredible miracles that she has made and what

00:00:27.720 role she still plays today and she needs to play in the future for America. Zach, Whitney, so good to

00:00:33.420 be with you both. Thanks so much for having us. Thank you so much. We're so happy to be here.

00:00:36.920 Let's begin as we always do with the sign of the cross. In the name of the Father, and of the Son,

00:00:42.160 and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. Let's jump right in because I think for a lot of people, they've heard

00:00:47.900 about Our Lady of Guadalupe, particularly if they live in America, you know, everybody in Mexico knows,

00:00:52.960 but, you know, they've heard about this. They're not sure exactly what it is. And let's start with

00:00:59.100 the most compelling scientific evidence that this is a real thing. Your documentary is called

00:01:05.060 Not Made by Human Hands, and I think everybody knows, but if you don't know, this image appears

00:01:10.700 miraculously. Why don't you start with that? Give us a really small nutshell version of that for people

00:01:16.280 who don't know this story. What's funny is when we started this project, I came in as a cradle

00:01:20.960 practicing Catholic, just knowing the very, very basics, in a nutshell, of Our Lady Guadalupe.

00:01:27.100 It was St. Juan Diego, saw our Blessed Mother, had the image imprinted on the tilma, end of story.

00:01:35.480 And that was my knowledge, unfortunately, at the time. But over this last year and a half of research

00:01:41.900 and development of this project, it has been eye-opening to see all the miraculous events

00:01:49.940 that have taken place. And so it's very hard to put into a nutshell all of it. But, you know,

00:01:56.140 it's amazing, I think, for me to look at the eyes of the Blessed Mother. You know, Our Lady appeared to

00:02:03.020 Juan Diego 500 years ago, approximately. And in her apparition, in how she appears visually,

00:02:10.800 in what she says, all has deep meaning and roots. But what's amazing is Our Lady, when she appeared,

00:02:17.300 did not just come for that time in 1531, but still remains just as relevant to this day and for her

00:02:24.960 message. And that scene through these scientific discoveries of seeing the figures in Our Lady's

00:02:32.040 eyes that Bishop Zumarga and St. Juan Diego would not have known was in existence until this time.

00:02:41.420 And so, you know, Our Lady is not done reaching out to us.

00:02:46.420 Yeah, yeah. I would echo what Zach said as well. As you mentioned the story, you know,

00:02:53.020 Our Lady appeared in 1531 to Juan Diego. There's a lot more detail that we go into. And we actually

00:02:59.180 have the Nikamapua, which was written probably 30 years or so later. So we can use that as a first

00:03:04.620 source. But thinking about the most compelling scientific mysteries, there's so many. And the

00:03:10.900 eye thing is, I mean, Father Spitzer explained it so well to us. We were able to sit down with Father

00:03:15.820 Spitzer. And he, you know, explained multiple people, first in 1921, and then in 1951. And then

00:03:22.240 between 1951 and 1980, like over 20 ophthalmologists have studied this and have seen in her cornea,

00:03:29.760 not just a reflection, but this triple reflection, which is how we all see things, two images,

00:03:37.140 but the third flipped over. There's no way. No, it's 31. Exactly. Like who nobody could paint that.

00:03:44.120 It's, it's, it's medically how the human eyeball works. And that's how it is in the Thelma in her. 0.93

00:03:49.960 It's amazing. So that's super cool for all. And this is really for the skeptics, because

00:03:55.380 a lot of people like, come on, you know, it's an image made by heaven. Give me a break.

00:04:00.820 Yet we know it's been there all this time. We know it's an artifact that has been basically on

00:04:07.500 display for most of its existence, not painted. There it is. And it's being studied by the top

00:04:13.720 scientists in the world. And they're discovering this stuff, seeing in the eye, the stuff that in

00:04:19.560 1531, did they even know about the three different ways that the eye sees like that?

00:04:23.800 They did not. They did not. I was not. I discovered later. Right.

00:04:28.900 So that's just incredible.

00:04:30.940 It really is. And it continually surprises us as we are making this film, how much Our Lady

00:04:37.020 is speaking to us today and how this was not a one-time event. And this was not just for Mexico.

00:04:43.100 This is truly for the world. And, and as you said, I mean, we actually approached it that way

00:04:48.920 through a skeptical eyes and it was helpful having Zach not know that much about it. And

00:04:53.060 I didn't know that much more, but I had always wanted to do, um, a doc, do one of our series

00:04:59.100 on Our Lady of Guadalupe. So, but I knew that we needed to do it when we could do it really

00:05:03.440 well and do it in Spanish. And, um, but having Zach not have any real knowledge of it was helpful

00:05:09.200 because he was the skeptic really.

00:05:11.160 Exactly. Yeah. And, and I think that's what helps this, uh, film in a, in a different perspective,

00:05:16.660 everything that we put forth is from a skeptic's perspective. We are there to present the factual

00:05:25.000 evidence, the scientific evidence, the historical accounts and present it to the viewer. And, and

00:05:30.980 obviously, uh, we are all believers and, uh, it, you're overwhelmed when you get to the end of the

00:05:37.280 seven, um, episodes, you're overwhelmed with proof and factual evidence that this is true. And it's not,

00:05:45.300 it's not in a sappy, um, propaganda ish kind of way. It truly presents things, um, that are

00:05:54.320 undeniable to, to the viewer.

00:05:56.340 Like Father Spitzer as a scientist. And we have Jorge Zavilla who's has PhD in Nautil studies. Um,

00:06:04.720 Father Heenan, who's in Guadalajara, even our videographer in Guadalajara has really worked hard

00:06:10.660 with us on the script because he himself has done so much study and he's kind of becoming his own

00:06:16.420 scholar on that, but he, we're only using those sources that, you know, are authentic. And, um,

00:06:21.800 so not only in the contributors, but also in the scholarly research that we've been able to do,

00:06:26.600 we feel like this is just a great presentation of the authentic nature of the Toma and the

00:06:34.040 apparition and everything around it.

00:06:36.840 Beautiful. Now you mentioned Zach right off the bat, it affected your faith a little bit. Can you

00:06:41.620 explain that or describe that to us?

00:06:43.360 So it's definitely helped, um, further this project because I did come in really unknowing to the entire,

00:06:50.180 um, detailed, um, parts of this apparition. You know, how we have tried to present this

00:06:57.540 is okay. We tell the entire apparition, we, we, we go through the timeline, but if,

00:07:05.180 if you were to take just one element out of it, say, I don't believe that these figures were divinely

00:07:11.920 put in the cornea of Our Lady. Okay. Remove that one element, but then you're faced with 20 more

00:07:18.340 to replace it. And, and so that for me is what affected me the most of this overwhelming desire

00:07:25.260 to learn more. And the more you study, the farther you go in this research, the more you are convinced

00:07:31.760 of this is undeniably miraculous and sent here for a reason.

00:07:37.340 Apart from the image being so miraculous in and of itself, what happened because of the apparition

00:07:44.120 is almost every bit as miraculous. Tell us about that.

00:07:49.120 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, 500 years ago, uh, you're in Mexico city and there are still human

00:07:55.660 sacrifices taking place, you know, missionaries come and they have a lot of obstacles in their way.

00:08:01.860 They are honestly not doing very well. They are not succeeding in converting the indigenous peoples. 0.82

00:08:07.860 Um, and so it's amazing to think that here are these two cultures and civilizations just clashing

00:08:15.760 and all it took was one apparition, one miracle. And our blessed mother was able to bring them both

00:08:24.900 and unify them both together. And it has everything to do with the visual aspect of how our blessed

00:08:30.540 mother appears in her wording to St. Juan Diego in all. And this is for me, the coolest part of the

00:08:38.440 film is all of the hidden codexes, the divine messages that are hidden. And that's what we get

00:08:43.980 into really deeply with the explanations of the codexes of the Tilmo. Yeah. We, we also, so in 1521,

00:08:51.600 the Spanish had conquered, um, Mexico city. And then in that time period between 20, 1521 and 1531,

00:09:00.500 um, you know, there were a lot of indigenous people who were slowly making their way. But if you think

00:09:06.580 about all of their beliefs and, uh, the gods and they were so strong and also there was a lot of fear

00:09:12.720 there. They really truly did believe that at some point up until 5, 1521, that truly in order for

00:09:20.780 another day to begin, they had to, you know, feed their God, but see poetry, the human blood,

00:09:27.720 and that that would kind of create another day. We get into that a little bit. We don't,

00:09:31.600 but our experts do in the film. But so, I mean, all of this kind of in depth belief system that they

00:09:39.060 had had to be also just because the Spanish came and conquered doesn't mean that they totally believe

00:09:44.820 that. And then unfortunately the Spanish themselves, a lot, a lot of them were not great examples of,

00:09:50.780 Christian, you know, um, morals. And so they weren't really, they weren't helping the missionaries, 0.78

00:09:56.200 frankly, um, bishops of Maraga and 12 other Franciscan missionaries actually in some ways

00:10:02.080 had to deal with them as much as they had to do with, deal with the indigenous people and trying 1.00

00:10:06.280 to catechize them amidst all these, you know, Spanish and not all of them were, um, many of them 0.77

00:10:12.100 did have a deep faith, but there was a lot who didn't and didn't understand. So anyway, that,

00:10:16.080 all of that was happening leading up to our lady and bishops of Maraga actually begged our lady or

00:10:21.900 begged God for a sign because he was at his wit's end. He didn't know how this was going to,

00:10:26.680 how he was going to make any headway. He just wasn't making any headway. And he had just actually

00:10:30.800 sent a letter to Charles V saying, if we're kind of at a loss here, if things don't change in terms

00:10:37.520 of who was in power. And so he appealed to God and then our lady came.

00:10:42.020 Now, Zach, you said that it has relevance today. Isn't the conversions done, uh, aren't,

00:10:48.520 you know, now, uh, Mexico, largely Catholic country. In fact, they're sort of more Catholic than,

00:10:54.220 uh, you know, some parts of the other Western world we're supposed to have, uh, our lady in the

00:11:00.000 first place, uh, and the church in the first place, but what's the relevance today? What does it

00:11:04.400 better today? I agree. Um, and this is honestly part of our messaging right now,

00:11:09.740 while we're finishing wrapping up, um, this series is that our lady Guadalupe surrounds us

00:11:15.480 everywhere in the world. I mean, I go to the grocery store and there's a candle of our lady

00:11:20.660 Guadalupe in the aisle tattoos on sides of buildings in, on the back window of a car. I mean, literally

00:11:26.240 everywhere. And I think, um, personally, uh, people just think that's either the, you know, Mexican Mary

00:11:33.500 or, you know, I think there's a disconnect. And so that is what we are trying to do. We are trying

00:11:38.840 to bring viewers to understand who our lady Guadalupe really is. Um, and yeah, it's, uh, it's,

00:11:47.340 it's just amazing. Once you start going down that rabbit hole of trying to explain, um, the message

00:11:54.300 that our, our blessed mother brings, it's a message of hope. Uh, you know, you put yourself in the shoes

00:12:00.460 of St. Juan Diego at the time, it was a violent, cruel, harsh world to live in. And unfortunately,

00:12:07.220 it's not much better, uh, in, in, in today's world. We may not have to worry about, uh, ourselves being

00:12:12.340 sacrificed, but there are so many wars, so much violence, so much cruelty. And so we try, uh, and I

00:12:21.100 think we do really accomplish to, to show what our blessed mother is saying and why it's still relevant

00:12:27.560 and, and why this, anytime our blessed mother comes, it is to direct us to her son, to direct

00:12:34.880 us to our Lord Christ, Lord Jesus Christ. Pope Pius XI said, men must look for the peace of Christ

00:12:42.860 in the kingdom of Christ. And he urged that the faithful give public honor to Christ the King

00:12:48.200 so that individuals and states would submit once more to the rule of their savior. And that is why

00:12:53.900 LifeSite News is raising up the image of Christ the King across the United States, and you can help us

00:13:00.560 reach millions more. Please pledge your support today for these billboards at lifefunder.com slash

00:13:07.820 Christ is King. We have the Tilma, most people know, but what was the specific message that she had

00:13:15.680 for, uh, for, uh, the people there, uh, and the, the really leadership there.

00:13:21.200 A lot of the message did have to do with, um, the fact that her son came as the one sacrifice and

00:13:27.860 that nothing else was necessary. And a lot of, there was so much distraction over that, even though

00:13:33.460 there was an attempt at conversion. Um, she was, she was coming to say, my son is the truth, 1.00

00:13:42.420 the way, the life, and this, his own sacrifice conquered all other sacrifices. Even in the image

00:13:48.880 she stands before with the rays of the sun behind her as the, she's, she's stronger. The God is

00:13:56.120 obviously larger than the sun God, which is one of their gods and the moon and stands on top of the

00:14:02.220 moon. And so she's making these connections for the indigenous people, which they must have understood

00:14:07.060 because why would 9 million of them come into the faith? And as Zach said, I think a lot of it does

00:14:11.800 have to do with what she brought, you know, the, even, even just the roses, um, blooming there in

00:14:18.060 December, um, it was a miracle, but then they happened to be Castilian roses, which is where,

00:14:23.080 you know, the Bishops of Marga was from and he had just asked for a sign. Um, but truly it was the

00:14:30.180 work of the missionaries. The missionaries are in some ways kind of the heroes of the story before

00:14:35.120 this, because they've been trying so hard. And our lady was really coming to answer a plea that they

00:14:40.680 had asked for, and she was responding directly to Bishop, Ms. Marga, but for the people, yeah,

00:14:47.100 coming as a Spanish, as a Spanish, Mestiza, which is, you know, the kind of blend of the two cultures

00:14:53.580 so that everybody could understand. It wasn't just for the Mexicans, it's Spanish, but truly for

00:14:57.560 everybody. And I think that voice, yeah, the voice of Our Lady to Juan Diego, those very beautiful,

00:15:04.220 very soft, very poetic. Yes, exactly. It's interesting because there's an element there

00:15:11.440 that can still teach us today about evangelization, because here we're trying to spread the faith all

00:15:17.180 the time. That's really the longing in everyone's heart, not only to the world outside, but to our

00:15:22.200 kids, to everybody. But when Our Lady comes and does it successfully with, um, the, the powers that 1.00

00:15:28.720 be can't properly, even though they're trying, she comes, she does it in a certain way. She speaks

00:15:34.080 softly, as you said, she talks sort of their language with their clothing. She's dressed as a,

00:15:39.000 as a, a woman of the time there, like their cultural dress. She is, uh, got their constellations in

00:15:46.860 her, in her, in her Thelma too. But tell us about that. Like, what could you extract from the way

00:15:53.060 she did it to even bring the faith to your kids, to your friends, to, um, other people,

00:16:01.000 uh, in your country? I do think it's the way that she came. I mean, not just in her presence

00:16:06.460 as a Mestiza woman, as the blend between a Spanish and Mexican and the CODIS on her Thelma, all of that.

00:16:11.680 But I do think the words that she says speak so much in that soft voice. And she asks, and,

00:16:17.480 you know, throughout the, the, there's four or five actual, um, apparitions, but throughout them,

00:16:23.960 just her voice and the things that she says are so amazing. You know, she knows exactly where Juan

00:16:29.300 Diego is going. At one point, she's asked him to do something for him and yet his uncle's ill. So he

00:16:34.500 literally scoots around the, the hill and she, she just hoping that to see our lady or the lady. 1.00

00:16:41.780 And she comes right to him and, oh, you know, sweet Juan Diego, you know, where are you going,

00:16:46.300 my dear Juan, Juanito? And she knows where he's going, but it's just this very gentle way and

00:16:51.760 peaceful way. And do not worry. You know, I, am I not your mother? You know, am I not here? Are you

00:16:57.500 not under the mantle of my arms and my protection? And it's just such a gentle coast coasting. I think

00:17:03.700 it is a real example of how we are supposed to evangelize. I think it, it's hard because when you

00:17:10.400 have, and you believe so strongly and you have a message, you really want to portray that. And

00:17:14.360 sometimes we go to facts and things like that. But I think in the end it is, it is the way and the

00:17:20.500 voice and the gentleness and the peacefulness that she comes to us and, you know, do not worry and

00:17:26.140 place your cares. Right. Our lady's nurturing, mothering care. Yes, absolutely. Makes you want to. 1.00

00:17:35.540 Yeah. She's answering also the call of everyone's heart loneliness. I am here. Am I not your mother?

00:17:44.900 I'm with you. So that, that kind of language speaks also to us here and he's in dire circumstances.

00:17:52.820 At that point, he's rushing to get a priest, if I'm not mistaken, for his dying uncle. And he feels

00:17:59.860 totally torn between doing what she asked and doing what he knows he has to do as a duty for

00:18:05.600 his uncle. And the story is incredible, but the beauty of her response is that really something,

00:18:13.560 and probably that particular line that you quoted there, Whitney, am I not your mother? Like

00:18:19.760 that's probably for me, one of the most memorable. What, what, what is it for you that's most memorable?

00:18:24.420 Is that one as well? I would say it is for me too. And I think as Zach was saying before,

00:18:29.560 there's so many elements in the story and we are so pleased that we've been able to talk to these

00:18:35.320 experts and scholars. And so there's that whole piece where every time you keep unraveling things,

00:18:40.680 there's more history to find out and more science. And, but there's this language that is universal.

00:18:46.460 And I think that goes to the heart of Mary and what she's saying. And yes, those, those are the lines.

00:18:51.200 And there are many, you know, throughout the story, which we, we bring in through the Nikamapola,

00:18:56.180 which explains all of her, it doesn't explain, but basically says all the things that Juan Diego

00:19:00.980 said and that our lady said, but those are the ones for me as well, because I think it's not just,

00:19:05.340 it's so personal. And we found throughout this project that she has been touching us in personal,

00:19:11.880 very personal ways. And there's always, you know, obstacles that come up and we'll be afraid,

00:19:19.080 oh, we didn't get that contributor. And we got all the way to Mexico and we didn't get to talk to this

00:19:22.780 person. And then, you know, she opens the door for something else. And, and it's always, in fact,

00:19:27.340 one of our contributors early on, Father Tim said to us, you know, don't expect this to be easy.

00:19:34.540 It's because our lady would not, she doesn't, it's not all about being easy. And in fact,

00:19:39.260 it won't be easy. Don't expect that, but do expect her to kind of whisper in your ear. And,

00:19:43.900 you know, even if you hear repita, repita, like, hurry up and, you know, keep going,

00:19:47.160 that that's our lady. And that's kind of how she works. You know, there's obstacles, 0.94

00:19:50.700 but am I not here? Who am I mothered? Exactly. So you're experiencing a little bit

00:19:55.960 of Juan Diego's treatment, are you? Absolutely. Absolutely. We've said that many times,

00:20:00.620 actually. Very good. So, but there've been documentaries made in the past on our native

00:20:06.020 Guadalupe. What makes yours different? So how we have formatted ours into a seven part series,

00:20:13.460 is kind of what you would expect to see on Netflix, with how documentaries are presented.

00:20:19.140 Very cinematic, very compelling storytelling, but presenting it in a way that takes you through

00:20:25.540 the guiding light of this entire story truly is the Nikon Mopoa. And until we started this,

00:20:32.040 I had never heard of that term before. I didn't know what that meant. But it is the historical

00:20:36.680 documents of all of the basically transcription of what took place between St. Juan Diego,

00:20:43.960 the bishop and our lady. And so we use this as our main source telling this story. And I do think

00:20:52.160 that it really encompasses our lady and her personality. And yeah, so I think that is our

00:20:59.280 biggest difference. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I do too. And then just, I think we've done a really

00:21:05.860 excellent job. And I believe it's our lady who has put everything in front of us. But with our

00:21:10.240 contributors, you know, we have a scientist, we have Father Spitzer, and he's a brilliant mind.

00:21:15.640 And he's telling us it's right here. And we have the scholars and we're talking to them. And then we

00:21:20.420 have those who've been affected personally. When we went to Mexico City a year ago, we stayed with

00:21:25.980 nuns just a couple blocks away from the basilica. And they didn't speak any English. We didn't really 0.99

00:21:31.980 speak much Spanish. But our videographer from Guadalajara was there. So he translated through

00:21:36.420 them and with us. But then we also, we were able to just walk every day to the to the basilica,

00:21:43.160 see the tilma. So I think that there's just been so many things that our lady has really personally

00:21:48.260 brought to fruition. And it's so obvious to us that I think hopefully that will come across and that

00:21:54.080 will be reflected in the docu-series. Beautiful. What's your favorite experience for both of you?

00:21:58.840 What's your favorite experience in making the film? Oh, gosh. I think I truly think being in

00:22:04.000 Mexico City there at the basilica was we were it was a year ago. So it was kind of at the beginning

00:22:09.980 of it. But I think I kind of being able to see it. And when you're in the plaza, the basilica sits

00:22:16.800 open, but the doors are massive. And they happen to be open that day, which I think they are often.

00:22:21.320 And she just she's she's there and you can see her. And it's like she calls you in. It's amazing.

00:22:27.080 You walk in and you're in this, you know, old plaza with the old basilica there in front of you,

00:22:31.660 which is beautiful. And then this new, very modern basilica. But there you kind of look to the left

00:22:37.160 and you see all the way in there is the tilma. And it just kind of pulls you in. And so I think

00:22:42.660 when you see that with your eyes, to me right there, I just truly wanted to make sure I brought that to

00:22:49.460 because not very many people can go to Mexico City to see the tilma. So I thought that was 0.93

00:22:53.360 kind of hit me as this is what I want to do. I want to help bring this to life for people who

00:22:58.540 never get to go and don't believe or have some reason. Maybe they're away from their faith or

00:23:04.440 they're not Catholic at all. And that really touched me when I walked into the basilica.

00:23:09.160 Yeah. For me, I would say it was being able to sit down with Father Spitzer. I mean, a well-known

00:23:15.380 scholar, doctor, listening to his findings, his studies, his interpretations of other scientists'

00:23:22.520 studies and findings. I would say I'm a moderate skeptic, you know, and I think that's why I was

00:23:26.300 the right guy for the job to lay out this whole thing. But it was so compelling going through each

00:23:34.860 study, listening to Father, what he said. And it's just how he said it. And that's what I'm so

00:23:40.140 excited to be able to bring to the viewers. Because I feel like we're sitting on a goldmine

00:23:45.560 of information presented in such a way that is beautiful. And Father Spitzer, to me, really,

00:23:53.280 he hit it home for me. And I really felt connected and understood and recognized like, okay, you don't

00:24:01.560 have to acknowledge and accept these scientific studies, because they're still unexplainable. I mean,

00:24:07.640 science cannot prove any of this. But how Father Spitzer sits there and explains how each individual

00:24:14.780 fiber of this tilma, and it's made from cactus fibers, so very coarse, nothing is, you know,

00:24:22.280 uniformed. But each fiber individually, naturally, is the color that you see in the tilma. And to me,

00:24:32.460 that is what hit it home for me. And I was just like, this is not a painting. This is the only

00:24:38.380 image, heavenly image that has ever been sent to earth. I mean, that's why we call it not made by

00:24:45.500 human hands. And so it's just very powerful. It's still here after 500 years. Exactly.

00:24:52.200 Unblemished, really. So that one I'd never heard before, that the, they're the natural colors of

00:24:58.820 the, so it's almost like a mosaic in a way, then. Yeah, that the pigment is also unknown. And it's

00:25:05.200 unknown. They've never been able to actually say where this could come from. We don't have anything

00:25:10.080 else in existence. And that's why it kind of, it's not paint. It's not on it. It's in it. It's a part

00:25:16.460 of the fabric of agave material, which is just remarkable. Fascinating. Looking forward to seeing

00:25:23.500 it. So December 12th, where can we get it? So, yeah, we are working on that. As a matter of fact,

00:25:29.040 we have our Kickstarter campaign running. And so we are definitely going to have it up on

00:25:35.440 goodcatholic.com. But then we are also trying very hard to get it on all major streaming platforms.

00:25:41.220 And so, you know, we're kind of reaching out and asking for assistance there. We really need

00:25:46.180 everyone's support in order to make that happen. All right. Any final thoughts before we let you go?

00:25:51.380 Oh, we're just really thrilled that you've, that you're interested as well. And that we're happy that

00:25:57.300 you've asked us to be on here because we, you just want to get the word out. And we think it's going

00:26:01.660 to be an amazing docu-series. And so we very much appreciate your time.

00:26:06.960 Absolutely. I'm very hopeful that this will reach viewers and help convert and bring them back to

00:26:14.280 our blessed mother who then directs them to her son.

00:26:17.400 Whitney Hedsel, Zach Brakefield, thank you so very much. Not Made by Human Hands, December 12th,

00:26:22.080 ladies and gentlemen. God bless you both. Thank you.

00:26:24.160 Thank you so much.

00:26:24.760 Thank you.

00:26:25.340 And God bless all of you. And we'll see you next time.

00:26:27.720 The Lord be with you. I'm Deacon Keith Fournier, and I hope you enjoyed this video from LifeSite

00:26:37.440 News. Check the links in the description for more content like this. You can also connect

00:26:43.520 with LifeSite News on social media and stay up to date with the latest news on life, faith,

00:26:50.980 family, and freedom. Thanks for watching and may the Lord bless you.

The John-Henry Westen Show - June 20, 2025

Skeptics SHOCKED over New Guadalupe Tilma Doc ｜ Not Made by Human Hands

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