The John-Henry Westen Show - SSPX Consecrations Could Trigger Vatican SHOWDOWN

00:00:00.000 And quite frankly, that may be one of the reasons why Pope Leo isn't touching it.

00:00:05.680 He may not want to touch it because there's nothing he can really do

00:00:08.500 without causing a chaos no matter what he does.

00:00:13.020 Well, my friends, there is massive news throughout the Catholic world

00:00:16.160 as we prepare to enter times of Lord only knows what.

00:00:20.660 Will it be schism? Who knows?

00:00:21.980 Well, July 1st is upcoming and the Society of St. Pius X SSPX

00:00:26.580 are still going ahead with their bishops' consecrations.

00:00:29.420 July the 1st, and the Vatican has made noises saying that it has already prepared papers for

00:00:35.720 schism or excommunication or whatever, and just heard Bishop Filet in a now famous homily saying

00:00:44.160 that some would be excommunicated, in fact, thinking maybe beyond even the bishops, maybe

00:00:51.160 even the priests and religious, some saying even the laity of the SSPX. So I wanted to bring you

00:00:57.340 on someone who was an expert in all these matters, because while he's not a SSPX priest or anything

00:01:03.720 like that, he is a faithful member of an SSPX parish. I guess you wouldn't even say member,

00:01:09.520 but he attends the SSPX parish, and he's been doing so for many years. He's regarded as one

00:01:14.920 of the most knowledgeable experts on the society and what they're doing. Welcome to the show,

00:01:21.340 Kennedy Hall. Kennedy, so good to be with you. Thanks, John Henry. It's good to be back on.

00:01:24.960 let's begin as we always do with the sign of the cross in the name of the father and of the son

00:01:28.860 and of the holy ghost amen so kenny lots for you to help us to come to grips with with what's going

00:01:36.200 on right now but first thing i wanted to ask you is that i know that here we are uh into may already

00:01:43.640 and we're waiting still for a month or so before the society makes its announcement of the bishops

00:01:52.920 that they're the names of the bishops that they're going to consecrate or ordain as bishops and um i

00:01:59.300 have a feeling that you might know something of that are you able to share with us number any of

00:02:04.780 the names that you know or suspect will be uh the ones coming forward as the new bishops for the

00:02:10.340 society i don't have any information on that a lot of people think i work for the society um

00:02:16.920 i don't never have and i'll just be fully transparent i've had sspx priests help me

00:02:23.980 with my work you know i ask questions like how's how's this look father etc but for example when i

00:02:30.240 did my book on the society of saint pious the 10th in conversations with our superior here in

00:02:35.500 canada and so forth it was intentionally separate from the society's official publications for the

00:02:41.320 reasons of two reasons. Number one, it not coming off to the public as like a society thing. And

00:02:47.160 number two, I have freedom to say things that are my own opinions and not necessarily official from

00:02:54.200 the organization, but I don't have any insider information. Are you guessing around five bishops

00:02:59.760 like has been talked about? What do you make of that number? I was honestly hoping that there

00:03:04.480 would be much more, but what are your thoughts about five? I had a conversation with the society

00:03:08.900 priest a couple of years ago when this idea of consecration's forthcoming was at least kind of

00:03:14.760 in the water because it was obvious. This was before Bishop Tissier died, God rest his soul,

00:03:19.400 but it was just like, okay, we're going to need some more at some point. These men are getting

00:03:23.020 old and they can't keep traveling the globe. And the one society priest said to me, he said,

00:03:28.220 the SSPX is very concerned with making every possible effort it can to show that they do

00:03:35.980 not see themselves as a parallel hierarchy or a parallel church or whatever.

00:03:41.160 So the number of bishops is important because if you do like 20, it's like, okay, well,

00:03:48.140 you know, that's a lot of bishops and are they all qualified to be a bishop?

00:03:52.040 Because being a bishop is not the same thing as being a priest and whatever.

00:03:55.660 But also the type of men that would be chosen would have to be done very carefully because

00:04:00.200 they're not being consecrated in order to be leaders of a movement or something like

00:04:05.540 that. They function as auxiliaries in an international setting, and that's what they

00:04:10.860 want to make clear. So five, six, given the size of the society now, the age of the older ones,

00:04:15.640 and the continents they have to travel to make sense, but it's not excessive.

00:04:19.400 There's lots to unpack even there. Just for clarity's sake, these bishops are going to be,

00:04:26.600 as you said, auxiliary bishops of what? Normally when you're an auxiliary, there is a bishop that

00:04:34.180 you're under, if you will. Explain that to us. Why are they auxiliary bishops? Well, they are

00:04:39.940 bishops without a diocese. So the term that's often used within a diocese for a bishop who's

00:04:45.240 under the diocesan bishop is an auxiliary. So they're basically at the service of the jurisdiction.

00:04:51.360 In the case of the SSPX, it is a society of apostolic life, and it does have a superior.

00:04:56.740 And within the Catholic framework, it is possible for priests to be superiors of society of apostolic

00:05:04.000 life and have other members within who are of a higher sacerdotal character. You see this with

00:05:10.640 Jesuits and Dominicans and so forth. You know, the superior does not have to be a bishop, but there

00:05:14.900 could be men from the order who are consecrated bishops and function as bishops, but are still

00:05:19.340 members of that particular religious order. So that's kind of the reason for it. And also it's

00:05:23.980 to be very clear that they are not taking for themselves any territorial jurisdiction, which

00:05:29.940 is in the perennial theology of the church where schism takes place uh because it's a it's a uh

00:05:37.720 it's a jurisdictional problem where there's a competition of authority and in this case there

00:05:43.980 is no competing authority it is for the service of the souls is the idea so this is very interesting

00:05:48.740 because what that means is that even though everybody myself included makes the analogy

00:05:55.960 between what's happening in China and what's happening with the SSPX and the Chinese are

00:06:00.080 being basically given a pass you know they they do it outside of the Pope's stamp and the Pope 1.00

00:06:05.140 looks at them afterwards and says ah well I wish you didn't do that but of course of course we're

00:06:09.720 gonna we're gonna sanction it's all sanctions all good now what you're saying is is much actually

00:06:14.640 much worse with China because while the SSPX is saying yes we're consecrating the bishops but

00:06:21.060 we're not taking the Pope's authority by saying we're giving them a jurisdiction because he holds

00:06:25.500 universal jurisdiction and is supposed to be able to give that jurisdiction, they're saying,

00:06:30.420 no, no, we're not doing that. But the Chinese are. They're actually giving their so-called 0.99

00:06:35.980 bishops the jurisdiction as well, which of course then after the fact is Francis both and Leo now

00:06:41.120 both say, oh yes, yes, of course it's fine. Please don't do that again, but it's fine.

00:06:44.440 So what you're saying is what the Chinese are doing is much, much more severe. 0.99

00:06:48.400 It is more severe. And even in church history, there have been examples of things that are more 0.99

00:06:53.540 severe, which are remembered fondly. So for example, well, there are a number of instances

00:06:59.760 with Eastern Catholic groups. We all know about like the great schism, you know, of the Eastern

00:07:06.040 Orthodox, but throughout the first millennia of the church, there were a lot of, you know,

00:07:10.720 the East is very complicated. It's not a, it's not a criticism. It's just, it's very multi-ritual.

00:07:16.240 There are a lot of pastoral concerns in the true sense of the word. It was very different than the

00:07:20.720 Western Roman Empire. So there were at times many instances of, let's say, not power struggles,

00:07:26.600 but disputes about how Rome's authority ought to operate in a given jurisdiction without denying

00:07:34.360 that Rome had the authority as such. And there were times where there was a break off of communion

00:07:39.780 in a juridical sense, but it was never constituted as a schism in the history books. And then also

00:07:45.820 So during the Arian crisis, there was a famous saint, Saint Eusebius of Samasota.

00:07:51.560 He looked at the Arian problem where there were either Arians who denied the divinity of Christ or semi-Arians who, in a very Vatican II-ish kind of way, was like, we don't really know if they deny it or not because it's not really clear.

00:08:04.880 And he went around and his logic was a priest is an alter Christus, is another Christ, and Christ is the divine physician for the healing of souls.

00:08:13.160 and the church is the collection of souls in the mystical body of Christ. So the function of a

00:08:19.400 priest or a bishop is actually for the healing of the church. So he went around consecrating bishops

00:08:23.720 within dioceses where the diocesan bishop was either a heretic or like a semi-heretic

00:08:29.880 and instructed people not to have anything to do with the diocesan bishop. And he's remembered as

00:08:35.940 a hero, whereas the Arians are not. So there have been examples of this in church history for sure. 0.58

00:08:41.980 So the thing that everybody's now talking about, because I'm sure you've seen Diane Montagna picked up from Nico Spontini, the news that Cardinal Fernandez, the head of the DDF, has already prepared papers excommunicating.

00:08:58.880 And then the question is excommunicating whom?

00:09:01.880 So 1988, this happened with Jean-Paul II over that dispute with Lefebvre.

00:09:08.620 We can get into that later.

00:09:09.420 But what do you think is going to happen here?

00:09:12.540 The homily that now a couple of weeks ago, Bishop Philae gave one of the two existing

00:09:18.120 bishops of the SSPX really sounded like he was saying that many of us might be excommunicated.

00:09:25.700 He doesn't want to be the prophet there, but he said it might be you and we.

00:09:31.220 So a lot of people interpreted that as him saying the laity might get excommunicated

00:09:37.560 as well, because they did it first to the bishops in 88. Now the thought is it might be the bishops

00:09:44.020 and the priests and the religious who are the actual members of the SSBX. But there's some

00:09:48.900 saying or suggesting might be the laity who happened to go to that church. I think that

00:09:54.440 the laity part, that seems insane because A, who are they and how would they know?

00:10:00.040 But what are your thoughts there? Yes, I saw that from Bishop Follet. Now he is stationed

00:10:04.740 at the seminary in Virginia. And so that may have been a homily to the seminarians at their mass.

00:10:11.380 And in that case, members of the seminary do have an affiliation officially with the society. So

00:10:17.840 that may be what that was referring to. Here's the thing, okay, about a lot of what's happening

00:10:22.920 right now. There was not instant news coverage. Well, I was born three months before the last

00:10:28.380 consecrations. So I have no recollection of it. Even if I did, you know, there was no internet.

00:10:32.780 things were quick enough, but there wasn't like this constant leaking of files and blogs and

00:10:37.460 social media, whatever. When the letter of excommunication, which people need to understand,

00:10:41.980 they were not actually excommunicated by the Pope. They were excommunicated or allegedly

00:10:48.520 by Cardinal Gantin, who was the head of that particular congregation who deals with those

00:10:54.840 matters. And then John Paul II's letter that he released was kind of like when there's this

00:11:00.080 decision in the Supreme Court, and then there are the opinion letters or the opinion pieces,

00:11:04.620 whatever they call them, from the justices explaining the ruling. That's what that was,

00:11:08.640 but it wasn't actually the legal ruling. Legally, what happened with that moda propria Ecclesia

00:11:13.200 Dei Afflicta was the establishment of the Ecclesia Dei Commission. That was what that was about.

00:11:18.020 Because a moda propria was basically a policy document. It's a memo, okay? It can be overturned

00:11:22.440 by the next boss with no harm, no foul, which this one was, wedged on by Pope Benedict.

00:11:27.980 The fact that that came out within like 48 hours, it was not written within 48 hours.

00:11:34.720 Nothing happens within 48 hours in Rome, okay?

00:11:37.520 Except maybe if there were a pizza to the Vatican or something.

00:11:40.240 And so this was in the works before.

00:11:42.960 And I'm sure if there were Vaticanistas with smartphones, we would have known about potential letters back then.

00:11:49.140 So this is nothing new.

00:11:50.160 But also what's interesting to note here, there's a really important element here that is above most people's heads because, of course, it is.

00:11:56.660 The Society of St. Pius X was allegedly suppressed in 1965 or 75. That means it has no legal status.

00:12:04.480 So you can call yourself whatever you want, but you're just a private association of the faithful

00:12:08.720 with no canonical standing. So in 1988, they faced a conundrum because you can't excommunicate

00:12:14.320 members of a group that doesn't legally exist by the name of the group. So they named the four

00:12:19.860 bishops and the two consecrating bishops. Today, we face a similar problem because that 1975 issue

00:12:28.440 was never fixed. It was only made more confusing in a good way for the society by Pope Francis,

00:12:34.000 who recognized them as a group and gave them faculties and whatever, all that stuff.

00:12:37.840 No matter what the authorities in Rome do, they face a massive canonical train wreck of their own

00:12:43.460 making. Because if they say, members of the Society of St. Pius X, I hereby blah, blah, blah,

00:12:50.200 lettes intensi, excommunicate, that sort of thing. Okay. Well, now that means that they've 0.77

00:12:58.220 never been in schism ever. A lot of commentators on the internet would not be happy. At the same

00:13:03.100 time, it means that the whole time they have had a legitimate ministry in the sense that they're

00:13:09.480 legally incorporated into the church, and they do have faculties. So Pope Benedict was wrong.

00:13:16.420 And it would also mean that they would have the right to appeal. And the thing about the canon

00:13:23.320 law in the church, it's supposed to be just. We get our civil law courts from the laws of the

00:13:29.580 church, so it's supposed to be good, okay? We know with Bishop Vigano, it was a disaster the way they

00:13:34.240 did that. They have the right to appeal. And then once you have a penalty that you put into appeal,

00:13:40.140 well, now the effect of that penalty must be suspended until things have been sorted out.

00:13:46.140 It's a complete lose-lose. And so I wouldn't put anything past them. I mean, we have a head

00:13:52.380 of the DDF who writes basically a theological erotica. So I mean, all bets are off. At the

00:13:57.840 same time, Fernandez is no dummy. And when he was having his conversation with Don Pagliarani,

00:14:03.280 you'll notice Fernandez has a more traditional view of the theological character of Vatican II

00:14:10.560 than Cardinal Mueller, because Cardinal Mueller is of the opinion that basically you have to accept

00:14:14.720 the whole thing because it's basically infallible. He said that recently in Communio. Fernandez is

00:14:18.920 saying, well, you know, we can have some dialogue and we'll talk about the various theological notes

00:14:24.380 within the council, which is a very traditional thing. So Fernandez is very smart, regardless of

00:14:30.100 when we think about him, he's not unintelligent. And it's exactly why I thought, and a lot of

00:14:34.280 people thought, Leo's going to look the other way. But maybe this is all posturing. Maybe what

00:14:40.000 they're doing is floating this so that the society reconsiders. The funniest part, and I hate to say

00:14:47.880 it that way, but it was funny to me, was that Fernandez said, well, they were preparing for

00:14:53.180 an influx of priests from the society or members from the society or whatever. Okay, I get it. In

00:14:59.480 1888, that's how we got the fraternity of St. Peter, because there was, there was an influx

00:15:04.020 of priests who didn't want to face the sanctions that were being meted out at the time. I think

00:15:10.440 we're in a really different place at this point, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.

00:15:13.120 Okay, listen, if you join the Society of St. Pius X to be a priest, like since the dawn of

00:15:19.260 the internet, there's a very low percentage that you will have any issue with potential

00:15:26.740 drama facing the society. I mean, in 1988, there, I think there were 12 priests who left, right?

00:15:33.880 Out of about a hundred at the time. And so even that's kind of a small percentage when you think

00:15:39.240 about, you know, how many priests there were and how short it had been around. And, but if you're

00:15:45.280 joining the Society of St. Pius X now, you're not scared by this. You've already accepted it. You've

00:15:50.940 already, you've already accepted the arguments. You've already accepted the reality that we're

00:15:55.440 in a crisis and so on and so forth. And that it is the church teaches there's no salvation outside

00:16:00.060 the church, but not that there's no salvation outside canon law. It's risible, I guess you

00:16:03.960 might say. And but I will add this to what you said. You said you thought Leo might look the

00:16:09.800 other way. I mean, who knows what's going to happen, John Henry, but he might. I mean, it's

00:16:15.820 so weird that he has not had a single meeting with Don Pagliarani, not even to dress him down.

00:16:21.840 I mean, Paul VI had multiple meetings with Archbishop Lefebvre.

00:16:25.120 John Paul II didn't really have many, but he at least sent Ratzinger multiple times.

00:16:29.420 In Don Pagliani's letter, he said Francis was more generous than Leo.

00:16:34.520 That was the one that I think really caught people off guard.

00:16:39.000 It was good because, you know what?

00:16:41.220 It's right to say something's really amiss.

00:16:44.660 This guy, Leo, is meeting with Sarah Mullally.

00:16:47.860 He's meeting with Father James Martin. 1.00

00:16:49.640 anybody and everybody under the sun, the fakest of fakes with a woman parading around as if she's 1.00

00:16:57.920 a priest, let alone bishop. And yet he won't meet with Dom Pagliarani, Bishop Filet, any of the SSPX 1.00

00:17:06.800 to go over this. And he's threatening them with excommunication. So that's just stunning all by

00:17:13.160 itself. But please continue. That's the thing. Leo has not threatened anybody with anything.

00:17:16.780 He hasn't said anything good or bad. Everyone who's made a bishop is supposed to either have official qualifications in canon law or demonstrate sufficiency in their understanding. And I believe Pope Leo has the actual qualifications.

00:17:34.420 Now, this is no disrespect to canon lawyers, because I know canon lawyers, and there are some very good ones.

00:17:39.820 But kind of like with lawyer lawyers, you know, there are individuals who you'd want them on your team, like a Chris Ferrara, you know, to do some sort of actual moral and philosophical arguments.

00:17:54.040 And then there are those who find, you know, the night school, law school, just so they can get it, so they can, you know, help guys out with their ambulance chasing, right?

00:18:02.140 There are lots of different types of canon lawyers and different schools to go to, and the criteria for accomplishing those isn't always the most stringent at certain seminaries.

00:18:12.660 So I don't know how developed of a canon lawyer he is or how devoted, but if I just, you know, some guy with the internet and who can read can find things out, I would be very shocked if Pope Leo did not understand what was happening and what to do.

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00:18:59.060 and may god bless you you wrote a book on the sspx um tell us a little bit about that uh where

00:19:09.140 people can get it but also i want to hear about your open letter to the pope um from an sspx

00:19:14.260 perspective like from a faithful uh who attends the sspx sure yeah i wrote a book called sspx the

00:19:19.340 defense. And with a C, the King's English, John Henry, we spell with defense with a C here. I

00:19:25.040 found myself in this weird niche where everyone's asking me what the SSPX, it's not something I

00:19:29.340 sought out, it just kind of happened to me. And quite frankly, a couple years ago, three years

00:19:34.080 ago, when it was released, there was a lot of kerfuffle about the society and sort of the

00:19:37.160 podcast world. And I was looking at all the very various podcasts. And I'm like, I cannot make 40

00:19:43.180 hours of videos, I do not have the time to do that. So I'll just write a book. And then I can

00:19:48.020 sort of set it and forget it. So I just wrote a book that was a combination of a compilation of

00:19:54.140 things I'd written in the past, expanded on them, and then new things. I would recommend it to

00:19:58.820 people. The situation right now is in some ways different, but in some ways it's not different

00:20:05.120 at all in like a legal perspective. The crisis as far as doctrine and stuff is arguably worse,

00:20:10.680 but people can find that if you go to kennedyhall.ca slash books, that everything's there,

00:20:14.820 or just look for SSPX, The Defense, on Amazon.

00:20:18.220 So tell us about this letter you wrote to Pope Leo.

00:20:20.920 One of the interior battles that a traditionalist always faces

00:20:24.140 is the real battle to remain charitable.

00:20:29.380 That is very hard for anyone to do.

00:20:32.740 But as a traditionalist, I mean, you're constantly browbeaten,

00:20:36.320 calumniated, whatever, that out of justice, you get angry,

00:20:40.580 but you're not that good at controlling your anger

00:20:42.260 because you're a fallen human being.

00:20:43.500 So you can go too far. And I've really had to wrestle with that in my own life, as I'm sure many people have. And there are many arguments that people can make in favor of the society that are canonical, that are strictly theological, etc. Fine, fine. You know, you could submit a lot of very strong dissertations for your PhD and focus on the society on all sides of the debate.

00:21:05.680 but my patron is St. Augustine and our Pope is an Augustinian. And we had a son last year

00:21:14.800 who was born and died on October 24th. And he was baptized, confirmed, and he's straight to heaven

00:21:22.120 and he's the mass of the angels was celebrated for him by our priest and so forth. It was beautiful

00:21:26.100 and obviously hard and still is, but his name was Gabriel Augustine. And so he's St. Gabriel

00:21:33.300 Augustine. He's our family saint. And so I just thought to myself, you know, if I could ever

00:21:40.840 talk to the Pope, not for my own purposes, I don't care, not about me. If our Pope is an

00:21:48.420 Augustinian and he talks about being a man who wants to reconcile differences and so forth,

00:21:53.640 you know, St. Augustine faced a similar thing in his time. He had to deal with the differences with

00:21:59.100 the Arians and the Donatists and all that sort of stuff. And there were a lot of good people

00:22:03.740 on all sides. And he was a great reconciler. And he had this maxim where it was, you know,

00:22:11.180 we can dispute things, etc. But in all things, there must be charity. And if I could just speak

00:22:17.800 to the Pope, I would just tell him what I said in the letter. I say, listen, a schismatic is

00:22:23.420 someone who lacks charity in their soul, because schism is a sin against charity. That's why it's

00:22:27.380 a mortal sin. For someone to be a schismatic, he must not be animated by charity. But I can only

00:22:34.920 tell you, Holy Father, what's happened in my own life. Not only have the priests been there for my

00:22:39.300 wife and children in regular times, but I mean, our diocese forbade infant baptisms during the

00:22:45.440 COVID lockdowns. I don't even know if our diocese believes you need to be baptized.

00:22:50.780 Whereas our priest is waiting there with my family at the off chance our son might live for a few minutes after he was born.

00:22:59.520 He lived for a couple hours so that he can celebrate his short life with us and give him the sacraments.

00:23:06.560 And, you know, I said in the article, I said, if my priest, Father Stannis, if he's a schismatic, then I'm a woman.

00:23:15.040 Which should get me welcomed to the Vatican because I could dress up as a bishop.

00:23:17.760 We just have to break it down. 0.98

00:23:19.100 it's put the put the codes of canon law away for a second put the stupid articles away for a second 0.99

00:23:24.380 and it's like you have you're a catholic you have a heart you know think with your heart for once 0.98

00:23:29.260 and that's that's that was my goal okay beautiful so there is a lot of concern in the church today

00:23:34.640 and john q public catholic for the most part they hadn't heard about the sspx until now uh because

00:23:41.100 now uh you know this is being talked about as possible excommunications and what's this sect

00:23:46.780 over here or are they in schism they're not in schism because now they're being excommunicated

00:23:50.460 or what so for most this is very new and they're wondering about it these are the latin mass people 0.61

00:23:56.860 oh yes they hate the latin mass now and we have to get rid of them or what in general strokes

00:24:01.480 that's what we're dealing with in terms of john q public catholic but the idea that our lord said 0.97

00:24:08.680 there will be a remnant when i return will i find faith do you see that in the sspx just from a 30

00:24:15.320 thousand foot view um is this sort of the remnant that we're looking at or what do you make of

00:24:22.820 what's going on in the church right now and where the sspx really fits in yeah i mean without making

00:24:28.120 any predictions about the end of the world because what do i know um we do see throughout history

00:24:33.820 there are times that are apocalyptic there have been great saints who have believed the end was

00:24:39.520 nigh, and it wasn't, but the signs were there. So yes, the Society of St. Pius X is, as Don

00:24:46.260 Pagliarani said in the recent interviews, it is a sign of contradiction. And what is a sign of

00:24:51.360 contradiction? It's a term used for our Lord, but it's the mere presence of the society causes

00:24:57.480 discomfort to those in hypocrisy. And that is what we talked about canonically. I mean,

00:25:05.920 just the existence of the society is a legal Chinese finger trapping. The harder you pull, 0.99

00:25:13.820 the more stuck you get. And that's because of the abuses that have taken place with the

00:25:18.320 application of canon law for the last 50 years. And that's the making of those in charge. And

00:25:23.940 it's a sign of contradiction to them. The fact that the society still exists and legally has

00:25:28.000 this and that contradicts their hypocrisy. As far as the faith is concerned, yes, because

00:25:35.320 the Society of St. Pius X along with all Catholics for 19 and a half centuries believed along with

00:25:43.460 all the popes that you could be consecrated a bishop without jurisdiction and that the

00:25:51.280 jurisdiction was given to you on behalf of the pope well this changes with the second

00:25:55.880 Vatican council with some ambiguous phrasing and the practice after is a little bit different

00:25:59.580 so the sspx is like hold on a sec if we did this in 1950 there's no problem we might get we might

00:26:06.720 get in trouble because you shouldn't do things when you're not supposed to but there's no schism

00:26:10.000 so what gives catholic church teaching changes but what about the hermeneutic hermeneutic of

00:26:15.140 continuity where everything can be seen if we can see the former stuff in light of the recent stuff

00:26:19.540 then what what gives why can't we have the former stuff or you know vatican 2 defines no new dogmas

00:26:25.380 well okay then why do i have to accept it i mean sure i'll accept uh you know various uh nice ways

00:26:32.720 of presenting so yeah there's lots of nice things and back into fine but if it defines nothing new

00:26:37.140 then i don't even have to read it do i because it's not part of the deposit of faith okay and

00:26:42.880 but then again you know somehow rejection of the council is used as a accusation of schism for

00:26:49.020 bishop vegano and what about the fact that john paul ii when he wrote the letter about the

00:26:53.460 excommunication of Archbishop Lefebvre, this is in Ecclesia Deid Flicta, he said Archbishop Lefebvre

00:27:00.660 has an incomplete and contradictory notion of tradition, which I find hilarious. I mean, yes,

00:27:07.420 you may not like Archbishop Lefebvre, but really? That man doesn't understand Catholic tradition?

00:27:11.800 Come on. And the reason he doesn't have a sufficient understanding, according to John

00:27:16.460 Paul II, is because of paragraph 8 of De Verbum, which gives a definition of tradition,

00:27:20.800 which is different than Pius X and the Vatican I's. So the council defines nothing new,

00:27:28.580 so therefore there's nothing definitive. But if you don't accept non-definitive teachings,

00:27:33.160 you're somehow a heretic and a schismatic from a council that did not bind anyone like the

00:27:38.280 former ones. The more you dig into the situation, the more you realize that it is a complete and

00:27:45.940 utter chaotic disaster. And quite frankly, that may be one of the reasons why Pope Leo isn't

00:27:53.880 touching it. He may not want to touch it because there's nothing he can really do without causing

00:27:58.960 a chaos no matter what he does. Last thing for you, Kennedy, I'm going to be at the July 1st

00:28:03.760 Consecration myself reporting there for LifeSite News. You're going to be there as well? I will not

00:28:07.640 be able to be there. I have family obligations. It'd be nice to celebrate Canada Day with you

00:28:12.220 a cone, John Henry, but I can't this year. Very good, my friend. Thank you so much for joining us

00:28:16.720 and bringing us at least some more clarity. And we'll know next month in June who the bishops are,

00:28:23.360 they're going to be named, who will be consecrated on July 1st. God bless you. Thank you for being

00:28:28.180 with us. Keep on going, Kennedy, with your Canadian, by the way, proud to say it. God bless you, my friend.

00:28:33.100 Hi, I'm Liz Yor. I'm really urging all the audience to continue to follow LifeSite News

00:28:43.900 for all information news about life, for a great perspective on all the breaking news

00:28:51.920 in the world. Thank you for watching and continue to watch and follow LifeSite News.

The John-Henry Westen Show - May 06, 2026

SSPX Consecrations Could Trigger Vatican SHOWDOWN

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