The John-Henry Westen Show - The Darkest Point of the Papacy of Benedict XVI

00:00:00.000 We learned already before that, that the NSA was interested and active before the conclave.

00:00:07.460 So there was some interest of the U.S. National Security Agency with regard to the papal elections,

00:00:13.200 which I guess is not that surprising, perhaps.

00:00:14.940 The existence of strong pressures is not new in history.

00:00:20.520 Always in the history of the Church, there were pressures.

00:00:24.480 The Church and the popes have always resisted.

00:00:32.460 Hello, LifeSite friends.

00:00:33.900 This episode of the John Henry Weston Show is very special.

00:00:36.160 We're coming to you actually from a very special place.

00:00:38.800 This is the headquarters of the Lepanto Foundation,

00:00:43.220 but it is also one of the most ancient Christian communities here in Rome.

00:00:47.840 In fact, directly in front of us is the church called Santa Balbina,

00:00:51.680 and that is the eldest daughter of one of the ancient rulers in Rome who converted their whole family.

00:00:59.400 And so we've got an ancient Catholic community from like the 3rd century.

00:01:04.360 So just an incredible history to this place.

00:01:07.960 And on this show, we're going to be talking to Professor Roberto Dumatte,

00:01:12.480 who I think most of you know, but he is one of the greatest church historians alive today.

00:01:17.060 And he's going to share with us both about Pope Benedict and his legacy, his history, where he stood.

00:01:23.940 And you're going to want to stay tuned for this one.

00:01:32.960 Professor Dumatte, welcome to the program.

00:01:34.880 Thank you. Thank you very much.

00:01:36.740 Let's begin, as we always do, at the sign of the cross.

00:01:39.080 In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.

00:01:43.920 First of all, behind us is a new beautiful statue of St. Francis.

00:01:48.620 You just got that?

00:01:49.880 Yes.

00:01:51.240 It is a very ancient house with many memories of the history of the church.

00:01:58.980 As you say, there is the Basilica of Santa Balbina,

00:02:02.940 founded under Emperor Constantine in the 14th century.

00:02:08.980 We've just experienced the funeral of Pope Benedict XVI,

00:02:12.900 and now there's a lot of questions as to where we are as a church,

00:02:17.700 you know, and what's going to happen, particularly in the future, a lot of worry.

00:02:20.960 But tell us first about your recollections of working with Pope Benedict,

00:02:25.820 first as Cardinal Ratzinger, and then Pope Benedict himself.

00:02:29.000 I have never met Pope Benedict, but I have met Cardinal Ratzinger.

00:02:34.680 I remember in the year 2001, in July 2001,

00:02:39.860 I was asked by Cardinal Ratzinger for a meeting,

00:02:45.140 a private meeting in the Abbey of Fongolbo,

00:02:48.800 the Benedictine Abbey in France,

00:02:51.900 and it was a restricted number of scholars.

00:02:55.880 I remember the German professor Speyman,

00:02:58.820 the Spanish professor Ayuso, myself and a few others,

00:03:04.660 and some ecclesiastical people.

00:03:11.400 And for three days, this meeting was opened and closed by Cardinal Ratzinger.

00:03:17.120 The topic was liturgy,

00:03:20.840 and Cardinal Ratzinger was always present

00:03:26.980 and intervened with very, very interesting observations.

00:03:34.140 And I understood in that meeting

00:03:40.300 the importance for him of the subject of liturgy,

00:03:47.580 because Cardinal Ratzinger was convinced

00:03:51.740 that there is a strong crisis of the faith,

00:03:56.440 and that the crisis of the faith,

00:03:58.220 it is above all a crisis of the priesthood.

00:04:02.180 But priests are ordered

00:04:05.520 for the divine sacrifice of the mass.

00:04:09.940 And the goal of the priesthood,

00:04:14.580 it is the divine worship.

00:04:16.620 And so, if the liturgy falls down,

00:04:22.920 also the faith falls down.

00:04:29.140 And for this, for Cardinal Ratzinger,

00:04:33.640 it was very important a restoration of the liturgy.

00:04:36.940 So, when in July 2007,

00:04:43.780 there was Benedict XVI promulgated

00:04:47.160 the Motu Propio Sumorum Pontificum,

00:04:51.760 I was not surprised,

00:04:53.980 because it was absolutely coherent with his mind.

00:04:59.620 And in my view,

00:05:01.100 this Motu Propio Sumorum Pontificum

00:05:02.940 is perhaps the highest,

00:05:06.700 the pivotal point of his pontificate.

00:05:10.580 Now, what's really fascinating about this

00:05:12.940 is that I think a lot of people

00:05:14.540 perhaps assumed Pope Benedict

00:05:16.800 had some kind of conversion,

00:05:18.620 particularly those maybe

00:05:19.820 who would have read your book

00:05:21.180 on the Second Vatican Council,

00:05:22.360 because it comes out that Pope Benedict,

00:05:25.160 as Father Ratzinger

00:05:27.280 and Cardinal Ratzinger later,

00:05:29.000 but he was a pivotal figure

00:05:31.640 in the Second Vatican Council

00:05:33.500 who was one of the ones

00:05:35.720 primarily responsible

00:05:36.960 even for getting rid of the schema,

00:05:38.680 the old documents that were prepared,

00:05:40.420 that were excellent

00:05:41.020 for the Second Vatican Council,

00:05:42.880 thrown out.

00:05:43.720 And then they come back with,

00:05:45.960 as you note in your book,

00:05:48.420 ambiguous kind of documents,

00:05:51.160 which now have greatly harmed the Church

00:05:53.540 because they were made ambiguous

00:05:55.340 and allowed all sorts of confusion

00:05:59.280 because of the documents of Vatican II

00:06:02.080 being so ambiguous.

00:06:04.160 So if you could comment on that.

00:06:05.540 Yes, you are right,

00:06:07.220 but perhaps it is too much

00:06:09.780 to speak of a conversion.

00:06:13.300 Of course, there was a change

00:06:15.620 in his attitude

00:06:16.900 because, as you said,

00:06:20.020 he was not a cardinal,

00:06:22.920 but the younger theologian,

00:06:25.060 Josef Ratzinger,

00:06:26.860 who assisted the Cardinal Frings,

00:06:30.180 who was among the more engaged theologians,

00:06:34.760 progressive theologians

00:06:36.760 in the Vatican II

00:06:38.140 with Karl Rahner,

00:06:41.880 Henri de Lubac,

00:06:44.100 and others.

00:06:45.420 And so he gave

00:06:49.500 an important contribution

00:06:52.220 to Vatican II.

00:06:55.800 But something changed

00:06:58.120 after Vatican II.

00:07:00.820 I mean that there was a fracture,

00:07:04.400 a division

00:07:05.120 inside the progressive front

00:07:10.080 between a more radical wing

00:07:14.720 and a more moderate wing.

00:07:19.100 And so the more radical theologians

00:07:22.560 were Karl Rahner,

00:07:26.500 Yves-Marie Chenu,

00:07:29.840 Gilles Lebeck,

00:07:30.720 and others.

00:07:31.640 On the opposite side,

00:07:33.460 there were Josef Ratzinger,

00:07:35.660 Hans von Balthasar,

00:07:38.660 Henri de Lubac.

00:07:40.040 And these theologians,

00:07:44.280 the last theologians,

00:07:45.480 founded the Review

00:07:46.780 Communion,

00:07:49.400 which was opposite

00:07:52.680 to the progressive Review

00:07:55.100 Concilium.

00:07:55.940 and the theologians

00:07:59.180 of Concilium

00:08:00.180 followed the so-called

00:08:03.040 School of Bologna

00:08:05.580 of Giuseppe Alberigo.

00:08:08.920 And for them,

00:08:10.940 the Vatican II

00:08:13.140 had to be

00:08:14.100 a revolution

00:08:15.940 inside the Church.

00:08:17.820 On the contrary,

00:08:20.360 for Josef Ratzinger

00:08:22.040 and the other theologians

00:08:23.740 of Communio,

00:08:25.360 they interpreted

00:08:26.120 Vatican II

00:08:27.660 in continuity

00:08:29.100 with the tradition

00:08:31.800 of the Church.

00:08:32.980 And so,

00:08:34.040 there was the birth

00:08:35.660 of the so-called

00:08:37.200 hermeneutic

00:08:38.560 of continuity.

00:08:39.760 And of course,

00:08:41.480 of course,

00:08:43.500 Cardinal Ratzinger

00:08:44.280 was the more

00:08:45.900 prominent

00:08:47.680 representative

00:08:50.360 of this new

00:08:51.960 theology,

00:08:54.280 the hermeneutic

00:08:56.220 of continuity.

00:08:58.140 And when he became

00:09:00.340 a prefect

00:09:01.420 of the

00:09:02.960 Congregation

00:09:04.000 of the Faith,

00:09:05.040 we have to remind

00:09:06.340 that he was

00:09:07.520 the author

00:09:09.440 of the new

00:09:10.740 Catechism

00:09:11.460 of the Church.

00:09:12.320 The Catechism

00:09:12.940 is signed

00:09:13.940 by John Paul II,

00:09:15.240 but the real author

00:09:16.300 we know

00:09:16.600 is Cardinal Ratzinger.

00:09:19.320 And he was

00:09:21.340 also the author

00:09:22.880 of this

00:09:23.820 report

00:09:26.120 on the faith

00:09:27.340 with

00:09:27.800 an interview

00:09:29.900 with Vittorio Messori,

00:09:31.900 which is also

00:09:32.600 very important

00:09:34.680 because

00:09:35.420 it gives

00:09:37.080 the idea

00:09:38.300 we remember

00:09:39.320 also during

00:09:40.200 his period

00:09:41.680 as

00:09:42.480 a prefect

00:09:43.320 of the

00:09:43.600 Congregation

00:09:43.920 of the Faith,

00:09:44.520 the condemnation

00:09:45.460 of the theology

00:09:47.160 of the liberation

00:09:48.160 and many

00:09:48.860 other things.

00:09:51.360 So,

00:09:52.400 he was

00:09:52.860 accused

00:09:53.460 to be

00:09:54.780 a trait

00:09:56.380 or a betrayer

00:09:57.980 by the

00:09:58.880 more progressive

00:10:00.460 representative

00:10:02.280 of the

00:10:03.220 Bologna

00:10:03.960 school.

00:10:04.940 but in fact

00:10:06.800 there was

00:10:07.560 a certain

00:10:08.140 coherence

00:10:09.260 in his

00:10:10.480 attitude.

00:10:11.400 So,

00:10:12.220 perhaps

00:10:13.480 more than

00:10:14.780 a conversion

00:10:16.220 I would

00:10:16.820 speak

00:10:17.220 of

00:10:17.900 a

00:10:18.660 development

00:10:19.300 of this

00:10:20.600 position.

00:10:21.680 One of the

00:10:22.260 things that is

00:10:22.740 interesting,

00:10:23.240 so these are

00:10:23.840 controversial

00:10:24.400 positions that

00:10:25.280 Father Ratzinger

00:10:26.360 had,

00:10:27.160 Cardinal Ratzinger

00:10:27.860 had,

00:10:28.600 because

00:10:29.000 they did.

00:10:29.760 one of the

00:10:32.140 very stark

00:10:33.000 changes was

00:10:33.740 the doing

00:10:34.320 away of

00:10:35.100 anathemas,

00:10:36.120 doing away

00:10:36.840 of condemnations

00:10:38.540 of people.

00:10:38.920 And

00:10:39.140 Father Ratzinger

00:10:41.000 and Cardinal

00:10:41.860 Ratzinger

00:10:42.200 was very,

00:10:43.560 even as Pope,

00:10:45.820 very,

00:10:47.020 I don't know

00:10:47.740 the right word,

00:10:48.480 but generous

00:10:49.440 or willing

00:10:51.000 to speak

00:10:51.760 to real

00:10:53.020 heretics,

00:10:53.600 real people

00:10:54.340 who were

00:10:55.320 damaging souls

00:10:56.620 in the church

00:10:57.200 by their

00:10:57.600 infidelity

00:10:58.100 to Christ

00:10:58.840 and his

00:10:59.220 teachings.

00:11:00.000 But he

00:11:00.760 nevertheless

00:11:01.200 dialogued

00:11:02.580 with them

00:11:03.080 and didn't

00:11:04.460 condemn them.

00:11:06.480 But I think

00:11:07.280 some of that

00:11:08.040 attitude

00:11:08.700 might have

00:11:09.760 also led

00:11:10.580 to Pope

00:11:11.680 Benedict's

00:11:12.120 downfall

00:11:12.520 because

00:11:13.040 he needed

00:11:14.380 to act,

00:11:14.920 for instance,

00:11:16.060 with regard

00:11:16.640 to Tarsicio

00:11:17.660 Bertone,

00:11:18.640 who was

00:11:19.440 very unsupportive,

00:11:21.460 but was

00:11:21.740 supposed to,

00:11:22.180 the Curia were

00:11:22.960 around the Pope,

00:11:23.860 supposed to be

00:11:24.560 protecting the Pope,

00:11:25.540 but it really

00:11:26.320 did seem like,

00:11:27.660 no,

00:11:28.160 the Pope

00:11:28.920 was called

00:11:29.320 to protect

00:11:29.780 them instead.

00:11:31.100 And so,

00:11:31.700 do you see,

00:11:32.800 perhaps,

00:11:33.260 in that attitude

00:11:34.180 something of

00:11:34.940 the former

00:11:35.800 Ratzinger,

00:11:36.300 who wasn't

00:11:36.920 willing to do

00:11:37.700 the anathemas

00:11:38.360 anymore and

00:11:38.940 thought that's

00:11:39.300 the wrong way

00:11:39.760 for the church,

00:11:40.680 leading to

00:11:41.660 his eventual

00:11:42.760 kind of

00:11:43.440 downfall?

00:11:44.200 The crisis

00:11:45.020 of the

00:11:46.820 end,

00:11:48.840 of the beginning

00:11:50.080 of our

00:11:51.180 century,

00:11:52.700 when Pope

00:11:53.820 Benedict

00:11:54.180 became Pope,

00:11:55.200 was a

00:11:56.100 deeper

00:11:57.120 crisis

00:11:58.080 than the

00:11:58.920 modernist

00:11:59.500 crisis

00:11:59.960 of a

00:12:00.900 century ago.

00:12:03.340 But

00:12:03.820 St.

00:12:04.260 Paul X

00:12:04.700 faced the

00:12:06.800 modernism,

00:12:08.860 above all,

00:12:09.520 with the

00:12:10.660 precious

00:12:11.200 help of

00:12:12.360 his

00:12:13.120 Secretary of

00:12:14.140 State,

00:12:14.660 Cardinal

00:12:15.080 Mary de

00:12:15.680 Lval,

00:12:16.980 who was

00:12:17.420 an

00:12:18.060 anti-modernist

00:12:19.160 as the

00:12:20.920 Pope,

00:12:21.520 as St.

00:12:22.000 Paul X,

00:12:23.280 they were

00:12:24.240 not only

00:12:25.860 anti-modernist

00:12:26.700 but they

00:12:27.760 were really

00:12:29.440 holy men.

00:12:31.660 And they

00:12:32.680 faced modernism

00:12:34.800 with

00:12:35.520 governing,

00:12:37.160 I mean,

00:12:37.520 not only

00:12:38.340 with an

00:12:39.480 intellectual

00:12:39.940 attitude

00:12:40.740 expressed,

00:12:41.620 for example,

00:12:42.380 by the

00:12:42.880 encyclical

00:12:43.600 Paschendi,

00:12:44.980 by intervening

00:12:46.280 directly in

00:12:47.520 the seminaries

00:12:48.480 in the

00:12:48.900 universities,

00:12:50.100 condemning

00:12:50.720 books,

00:12:52.040 heresies,

00:12:53.040 errors.

00:12:54.480 This,

00:12:54.900 unfortunately,

00:12:56.000 didn't happen

00:12:56.820 with Pope

00:12:58.680 Benedict.

00:13:00.440 I think

00:13:01.120 that

00:13:01.600 perhaps the

00:13:04.220 main limit

00:13:05.080 of

00:13:05.920 his life,

00:13:07.920 it is that

00:13:08.820 he was

00:13:09.700 always a

00:13:11.060 professor.

00:13:12.220 I am a

00:13:12.920 professor and

00:13:13.560 so I can

00:13:14.100 understand

00:13:15.380 this.

00:13:16.700 I think

00:13:17.120 that also

00:13:17.840 when he

00:13:19.720 took the

00:13:20.320 title of

00:13:20.860 Pope

00:13:21.300 Emeritus,

00:13:22.580 he had

00:13:23.300 in mind

00:13:23.960 the fact

00:13:24.580 that in

00:13:25.980 the

00:13:26.220 universities,

00:13:27.680 professors

00:13:28.200 at the

00:13:29.040 end of

00:13:29.540 their

00:13:29.900 career

00:13:30.480 become

00:13:31.700 professor,

00:13:34.280 emeritus,

00:13:34.980 professor.

00:13:36.040 This

00:13:36.620 means that

00:13:37.500 a professor

00:13:38.420 is always

00:13:39.520 a professor

00:13:40.420 also when

00:13:41.700 he is

00:13:42.260 retired.

00:13:43.420 but it

00:13:44.960 is not

00:13:45.240 the same

00:13:45.700 thing for

00:13:46.220 a Pope.

00:13:47.040 But this

00:13:47.560 is another

00:13:48.100 point.

00:13:50.300 Returning

00:13:50.900 to

00:13:51.540 Benedict,

00:13:54.360 he was

00:13:55.240 a professor

00:13:56.140 in the

00:13:56.740 sense

00:13:57.100 that he

00:13:58.120 liked to

00:14:00.660 have an

00:14:01.300 intellectual

00:14:02.000 confrontation.

00:14:04.200 For

00:14:04.660 example,

00:14:06.120 he received

00:14:07.340 just after

00:14:09.880 his election

00:14:10.860 Hans

00:14:11.820 Kung.

00:14:12.400 Hans

00:14:12.700 Kung,

00:14:13.640 in my

00:14:14.200 view,

00:14:14.780 is one

00:14:15.440 of the

00:14:16.240 worst

00:14:17.140 heretics

00:14:18.080 of the

00:14:19.740 last

00:14:20.060 century.

00:14:21.660 I don't

00:14:22.080 think that,

00:14:22.680 for example,

00:14:23.920 Pius X

00:14:25.140 had never

00:14:29.280 met,

00:14:31.520 I don't

00:14:32.640 know,

00:14:34.560 Tyrell or

00:14:35.740 Loisy or

00:14:37.000 Bonayuti

00:14:37.740 for giving

00:14:39.260 the name

00:14:39.740 of some

00:14:40.320 famous

00:14:41.340 modernists,

00:14:42.940 for meeting

00:14:44.440 them for

00:14:45.520 an intellectual

00:14:47.840 discussion.

00:14:49.820 So,

00:14:50.280 this is,

00:14:52.560 I think,

00:14:53.260 this is the

00:14:54.560 problem.

00:14:54.940 because we

00:14:55.480 have to

00:14:55.840 remember

00:14:56.360 that the

00:14:57.300 Pope is

00:14:58.740 the man

00:15:01.560 who governs

00:15:03.040 the church.

00:15:05.100 The Pope

00:15:06.200 is above

00:15:07.820 all

00:15:08.860 governor.

00:15:10.800 And

00:15:10.820 Pope Benedict

00:15:13.520 was,

00:15:14.920 for sure,

00:15:16.060 was a

00:15:16.760 great

00:15:17.140 intellectual.

00:15:18.920 When he

00:15:19.500 was Pope,

00:15:20.640 he wrote

00:15:21.520 books,

00:15:23.140 interesting,

00:15:24.060 good books,

00:15:24.940 three,

00:15:26.020 I remember

00:15:26.500 three books

00:15:27.100 on Jesus

00:15:28.820 Christ,

00:15:29.740 very,

00:15:30.060 very,

00:15:30.460 very,

00:15:30.740 very fascinating

00:15:32.060 books.

00:15:33.320 But I don't

00:15:33.900 think that

00:15:34.540 the mission

00:15:35.460 of a Pope

00:15:36.260 is to

00:15:37.440 write

00:15:38.240 private

00:15:39.160 books

00:15:40.280 like

00:15:41.160 an

00:15:42.140 intellectual.

00:15:42.620 people.

00:15:42.740 It is

00:15:43.440 more than

00:15:45.000 this.

00:15:45.360 It is to

00:15:45.980 condemn

00:15:46.540 people

00:15:47.320 who deny

00:15:48.440 the

00:15:49.860 orthodox

00:15:51.600 truth

00:15:52.320 about

00:15:56.780 the topics

00:15:57.540 of these

00:15:58.520 books.

00:15:59.900 books.

00:16:00.840 And so

00:16:01.180 this is

00:16:01.780 the main

00:16:03.180 limit,

00:16:03.700 in my

00:16:04.020 view,

00:16:04.280 of

00:16:04.560 Benedict XVI,

00:16:05.960 of not

00:16:07.320 only of

00:16:07.760 Benedict XVI

00:16:08.560 as a

00:16:09.380 Pope,

00:16:09.680 but also

00:16:10.500 of Cardinal

00:16:11.440 Ratzinger

00:16:12.160 as a

00:16:13.160 prefect

00:16:13.760 of the

00:16:14.520 congregation

00:16:15.080 of the

00:16:15.920 faith.

00:16:16.260 One of

00:16:16.960 the things

00:16:17.180 you mentioned

00:16:17.540 about the

00:16:18.620 resignation

00:16:19.480 of Pope

00:16:19.920 Benedict,

00:16:20.540 even though

00:16:21.200 I think

00:16:21.620 a lot of

00:16:21.960 people are

00:16:22.380 going to

00:16:22.580 talk for

00:16:23.580 the next

00:16:24.060 centuries

00:16:24.620 about

00:16:25.080 Samorum

00:16:25.940 Pontificum,

00:16:26.660 as you

00:16:26.840 said,

00:16:27.120 being the

00:16:27.460 highlight of

00:16:27.920 his papacy,

00:16:29.360 there's also

00:16:29.900 another thing

00:16:30.600 because the

00:16:31.420 resignation

00:16:31.920 itself is

00:16:33.760 such a

00:16:34.240 stark thing.

00:16:34.980 It hadn't

00:16:35.240 been done

00:16:35.700 in 700

00:16:36.740 years,

00:16:38.200 and you

00:16:38.480 have this,

00:16:39.040 and then

00:16:39.400 you have

00:16:39.740 this new

00:16:40.420 strange idea

00:16:41.480 of a

00:16:42.120 Pope

00:16:42.260 Emeritus.

00:16:42.720 Now,

00:16:43.420 when John

00:16:44.040 Paul II

00:16:44.380 came to

00:16:44.920 Canada,

00:16:45.420 he famously

00:16:45.920 went,

00:16:46.260 to Conrad

00:16:46.820 Black's

00:16:47.240 place,

00:16:48.120 and there

00:16:48.660 he said,

00:16:49.460 there's no

00:16:49.860 such thing

00:16:50.460 as a

00:16:51.580 Pope

00:16:51.720 Emeritus.

00:16:53.100 And that

00:16:54.300 was very

00:16:54.840 well understood,

00:16:55.600 and it

00:16:55.800 lived out

00:16:56.480 in John

00:16:56.960 Paul's

00:16:57.320 life.

00:16:57.860 Pope

00:16:58.140 John

00:16:58.280 Paul,

00:16:58.420 we watched

00:16:58.800 him suffer

00:16:59.260 and die

00:16:59.700 in the

00:17:00.680 seat.

00:17:02.080 A lot

00:17:02.740 of people

00:17:02.960 think that

00:17:03.520 perhaps

00:17:04.120 because

00:17:04.940 Benedict

00:17:05.280 watched

00:17:06.340 John

00:17:06.980 Paul die

00:17:07.400 like that

00:17:07.880 and had

00:17:08.900 to act

00:17:09.780 to support

00:17:10.760 him in

00:17:11.140 that role

00:17:11.620 of Pope

00:17:12.920 while he

00:17:13.400 was dying,

00:17:14.540 that maybe

00:17:14.820 that encouraged

00:17:15.520 his resignation.

00:17:16.700 What are

00:17:16.980 your thoughts

00:17:17.320 on this

00:17:17.600 new thing

00:17:18.700 that Benedict

00:17:19.340 has done

00:17:19.660 with the

00:17:19.880 Pope

00:17:20.000 Emeritus,

00:17:20.880 staying in

00:17:21.540 white and

00:17:22.180 still giving

00:17:23.740 an apostolic

00:17:24.680 blessing,

00:17:25.900 and at the

00:17:26.980 same time

00:17:27.280 the whole

00:17:27.520 notion of

00:17:28.240 this

00:17:29.020 resignation

00:17:29.920 and perhaps

00:17:31.180 setting a

00:17:31.580 precedent for

00:17:32.040 the future.

00:17:32.360 just a quick

00:17:35.380 note before

00:17:35.840 we return.

00:17:36.920 If you

00:17:37.160 would like

00:17:37.460 to stay

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00:17:57.000 I think that

00:18:01.240 if the highest

00:18:02.340 point of his

00:18:03.780 pontificate is

00:18:04.880 perhaps the

00:18:06.500 Summorum

00:18:06.880 Pontificum,

00:18:08.320 I have seen

00:18:09.100 that either

00:18:10.060 Cardinal Burke

00:18:11.120 and Monsignor

00:18:11.900 Schneider has

00:18:12.940 said this,

00:18:15.280 and I share

00:18:16.280 their idea

00:18:17.760 on this point.

00:18:20.620 The darkest

00:18:22.260 point of

00:18:23.620 his pontificate,

00:18:25.940 in my view,

00:18:26.400 is the

00:18:27.600 resignation

00:18:28.300 from the

00:18:29.800 papacy.

00:18:30.560 There are

00:18:31.120 two different

00:18:32.120 points.

00:18:33.260 The first,

00:18:34.260 it is the

00:18:36.620 fact itself

00:18:37.760 of the

00:18:38.440 resignation,

00:18:40.280 because

00:18:40.700 until today

00:18:43.200 are

00:18:43.880 inexplicable

00:18:45.760 the reasons,

00:18:47.260 the real

00:18:47.720 reasons of

00:18:48.480 this

00:18:48.740 resignation.

00:18:50.300 Because,

00:18:50.960 of course,

00:18:51.880 in the

00:18:52.400 history of

00:18:52.740 the Church,

00:18:54.080 there were

00:18:54.840 popes who

00:18:56.380 abdicated,

00:18:57.360 few popes,

00:19:00.220 but in

00:19:01.340 all the

00:19:02.900 different

00:19:04.480 cases,

00:19:05.180 there was

00:19:06.640 always a

00:19:08.060 real

00:19:09.780 important

00:19:12.060 reason.

00:19:13.440 until today,

00:19:16.720 it is not

00:19:17.120 so clear

00:19:18.440 what is

00:19:20.040 the real

00:19:20.760 reason,

00:19:23.520 because

00:19:24.200 many people

00:19:26.600 think that

00:19:27.800 perhaps there

00:19:28.760 were strong

00:19:29.880 pressures

00:19:30.780 on him

00:19:32.760 blackmail,

00:19:35.620 Cardinal Ratzinger,

00:19:36.520 but also

00:19:37.200 Mosinogh

00:19:38.020 in a

00:19:41.380 recent

00:19:41.700 interview,

00:19:42.760 and I

00:19:43.100 think in

00:19:43.460 his

00:19:43.780 recent

00:19:44.240 book,

00:19:45.560 said that

00:19:47.620 no,

00:19:48.260 that this

00:19:49.460 was not

00:19:49.900 the problem.

00:19:51.460 Cardinal Ratzinger,

00:19:54.920 when

00:19:55.240 something

00:19:55.780 spoke about

00:19:57.260 blackmail,

00:19:58.740 said,

00:19:59.180 it is

00:19:59.700 nonsense,

00:20:01.200 if

00:20:01.820 someone

00:20:03.240 would

00:20:05.720 have

00:20:06.480 pushed

00:20:08.780 me,

00:20:09.860 obliged

00:20:10.360 me to

00:20:11.060 abdicate,

00:20:12.920 I

00:20:13.340 would have

00:20:14.880 resisted.

00:20:15.620 So,

00:20:16.860 this is

00:20:18.500 really

00:20:18.920 very

00:20:19.560 obscure,

00:20:24.000 because

00:20:24.280 it seems

00:20:25.400 that the

00:20:26.000 only

00:20:26.340 reason

00:20:27.200 is that

00:20:28.080 Pope

00:20:29.100 Benedict

00:20:29.440 was

00:20:30.220 very

00:20:31.200 tired.

00:20:32.900 It

00:20:33.260 seems

00:20:34.180 that he

00:20:35.020 was

00:20:35.240 convinced

00:20:35.820 to live

00:20:36.860 no more

00:20:37.300 than one

00:20:37.760 year.

00:20:38.260 He

00:20:38.400 lived

00:20:38.700 ten years

00:20:40.360 more,

00:20:42.080 but

00:20:42.260 he

00:20:43.800 has

00:20:44.280 been

00:20:44.580 the

00:20:45.220 longest

00:20:48.760 lived

00:20:49.320 Pope

00:20:50.340 of

00:20:50.720 history

00:20:51.360 with

00:20:51.740 95

00:20:53.140 years,

00:20:55.500 because

00:20:55.740 I think

00:20:56.180 that after

00:20:57.000 him there

00:20:57.720 is only

00:20:58.480 Leo XIII

00:20:59.700 with

00:21:00.580 93

00:21:01.320 years.

00:21:02.880 So,

00:21:04.680 the

00:21:04.960 post

00:21:05.960 pontificate

00:21:07.060 is

00:21:07.840 longer

00:21:08.580 than the

00:21:09.100 pontificate,

00:21:09.720 because

00:21:09.940 the

00:21:10.160 pontificate

00:21:10.680 of

00:21:11.360 Benedict

00:21:12.120 is a

00:21:13.140 pontificate

00:21:13.580 of

00:21:13.980 eight

00:21:14.380 years,

00:21:14.900 and

00:21:15.400 ten

00:21:15.780 years

00:21:16.140 of

00:21:16.440 post

00:21:16.760 pontificate.

00:21:18.000 But this

00:21:18.440 is only

00:21:18.900 one point.

00:21:20.380 There is

00:21:20.920 the other

00:21:21.380 point,

00:21:22.240 which is

00:21:22.780 the fact

00:21:23.420 that

00:21:24.240 when

00:21:26.480 Pope

00:21:28.200 Benedict

00:21:30.500 announced

00:21:31.260 his

00:21:32.080 abdication,

00:21:34.420 all the

00:21:34.700 people

00:21:35.180 were

00:21:36.500 presumed

00:21:38.700 that

00:21:39.280 he

00:21:39.800 went in

00:21:42.980 a

00:21:44.040 monastery

00:21:44.660 without

00:21:46.100 participating

00:21:47.080 to the

00:21:47.780 life of

00:21:48.180 the

00:21:48.320 church.

00:21:49.440 But in

00:21:49.820 fact,

00:21:50.160 what

00:21:50.480 happened

00:21:50.800 is that

00:21:51.780 he

00:21:52.380 assumed

00:21:53.080 the title

00:21:53.980 of

00:21:54.320 Pope

00:21:54.600 Emeritus,

00:21:55.380 he

00:21:55.540 dressed

00:21:55.880 in

00:21:56.380 white,

00:21:57.560 he

00:21:57.720 gave the

00:21:58.280 apostolic

00:21:58.980 benediction,

00:22:00.040 and so

00:22:01.540 the common

00:22:03.160 people

00:22:03.680 had the

00:22:04.340 idea

00:22:04.880 of

00:22:05.560 two

00:22:06.240 popes,

00:22:07.800 Benedict

00:22:08.960 and

00:22:09.540 Francis,

00:22:11.580 but a

00:22:12.460 diarchy,

00:22:13.320 it is

00:22:13.580 impossible in

00:22:14.360 the catholic

00:22:14.820 church,

00:22:15.660 because

00:22:16.020 Jesus

00:22:16.400 Christ

00:22:17.000 is

00:22:17.380 only

00:22:17.660 a

00:22:17.960 vicar,

00:22:19.140 and

00:22:19.980 all

00:22:21.280 this

00:22:21.660 vicar

00:22:22.700 is

00:22:23.300 Francis

00:22:24.340 or

00:22:24.820 is

00:22:25.160 Benedict,

00:22:26.700 and

00:22:28.180 what

00:22:28.760 happened,

00:22:29.320 unfortunately,

00:22:30.000 it is

00:22:30.880 that

00:22:31.680 some

00:22:33.440 people

00:22:34.040 is

00:22:35.200 today

00:22:36.240 convinced

00:22:36.820 that

00:22:37.320 the

00:22:37.720 true

00:22:38.080 Pope

00:22:38.400 was

00:22:38.820 not

00:22:39.680 Francis,

00:22:40.900 but

00:22:41.140 Benedict,

00:22:43.660 and

00:22:44.000 this

00:22:44.860 is

00:22:45.100 a

00:22:46.980 problem,

00:22:47.920 there

00:22:48.640 is

00:22:48.960 a

00:22:49.100 confusion,

00:22:49.960 unfortunately,

00:22:50.820 created

00:22:51.360 by

00:22:51.760 Benedict

00:22:52.240 himself,

00:22:54.620 assuming

00:22:55.280 the

00:22:55.680 status

00:22:56.260 of

00:22:56.500 Pope

00:22:56.720 Emeritus.

00:22:59.220 Yeah,

00:22:59.780 so

00:23:00.080 that's

00:23:00.980 a

00:23:01.100 difficult

00:23:01.420 question,

00:23:02.120 because

00:23:02.340 there's

00:23:02.640 a lot

00:23:03.960 discussion

00:23:04.560 about

00:23:05.120 what

00:23:05.440 that

00:23:05.720 meant

00:23:06.140 anyway.

00:23:06.860 Could

00:23:07.080 he

00:23:07.240 do

00:23:07.460 it?

00:23:07.880 If

00:23:08.300 there

00:23:08.540 was

00:23:08.700 pressure,

00:23:09.260 if

00:23:09.380 there

00:23:09.480 was

00:23:09.580 no

00:23:09.740 pressure,

00:23:10.080 it's

00:23:10.220 coming

00:23:10.460 out

00:23:10.620 now

00:23:10.980 that

00:23:11.280 there

00:23:11.520 were

00:23:11.660 pressures

00:23:12.000 that

00:23:12.160 we

00:23:12.260 didn't

00:23:12.480 know

00:23:12.680 about,

00:23:13.380 this

00:23:13.640 general

00:23:14.600 Laporta

00:23:15.260 mentions

00:23:15.880 how

00:23:16.300 a

00:23:17.580 member

00:23:17.820 of

00:23:17.960 the

00:23:18.140 NSA,

00:23:18.700 the

00:23:18.780 National

00:23:18.980 Security

00:23:19.360 Agency

00:23:19.780 in the

00:23:20.040 United

00:23:20.240 States,

00:23:21.320 had

00:23:22.160 said

00:23:22.520 after

00:23:22.920 the

00:23:23.100 2005

00:23:23.520 election

00:23:23.900 that

00:23:24.080 we

00:23:24.220 will

00:23:24.360 make

00:23:24.600 him

00:23:24.740 retire

00:23:25.160 soon.

00:23:26.580 And

00:23:27.100 there

00:23:27.480 was

00:23:27.600 actually

00:23:27.940 corroborating

00:23:28.960 evidence

00:23:29.500 for that

00:23:29.980 because

00:23:30.340 we

00:23:31.180 learned

00:23:31.800 already

00:23:32.340 before

00:23:32.680 that

00:23:33.040 that

00:23:33.520 the

00:23:33.720 NSA

00:23:34.100 was

00:23:34.640 interested

00:23:35.400 and

00:23:35.740 active

00:23:36.340 before

00:23:37.120 the

00:23:37.340 conclave.

00:23:38.460 So

00:23:38.560 there

00:23:38.740 was

00:23:39.000 some

00:23:39.340 interest

00:23:39.960 of

00:23:40.280 the

00:23:40.460 U.S.

00:23:41.020 National

00:23:41.240 Security

00:23:41.600 Agency

00:23:42.040 with

00:23:42.600 regard

00:23:42.940 to

00:23:43.300 the

00:23:43.520 papal

00:23:43.740 elections,

00:23:44.020 which I

00:23:44.340 guess

00:23:44.460 is not

00:23:44.700 that

00:23:44.880 surprising

00:23:45.200 perhaps,

00:23:45.980 but

00:23:46.060 nonetheless

00:23:46.440 there

00:23:47.240 were

00:23:47.420 these

00:23:47.640 pressures

00:23:47.960 some.

00:23:49.200 Obviously

00:23:49.800 there

00:23:50.440 was

00:23:50.680 the

00:23:51.180 Sangalan

00:23:51.820 Mafia

00:23:52.300 who was

00:23:52.940 working

00:23:53.460 against

00:23:53.940 Benedict

00:23:54.320 as we

00:23:54.800 know

00:23:54.960 from

00:23:55.180 Cardinal

00:23:55.500 Daniels

00:23:55.920 himself.

00:23:57.020 So

00:23:57.400 there

00:23:57.580 were

00:23:57.800 all

00:23:58.040 these

00:23:58.200 pressures.

00:23:58.520 So

00:23:59.100 people

00:23:59.300 wondered

00:24:00.100 about

00:24:00.620 the

00:24:00.840 resignation.

00:24:01.740 Then

00:24:01.960 we

00:24:02.080 had

00:24:02.280 these

00:24:02.500 huge

00:24:02.840 theories

00:24:03.180 about

00:24:03.800 this

00:24:04.860 strangeness

00:24:06.140 of the

00:24:06.560 resignation

00:24:06.860 itself

00:24:07.360 because

00:24:07.620 there

00:24:08.340 was

00:24:08.460 a

00:24:08.600 talk

00:24:08.900 about

00:24:09.320 Munus

00:24:10.180 being

00:24:10.600 resigned

00:24:10.900 and

00:24:11.120 even

00:24:11.980 Pope

00:24:12.980 Benedict

00:24:13.300 or

00:24:13.720 Genswein

00:24:14.340 talked

00:24:14.780 about

00:24:15.120 some

00:24:15.440 kind

00:24:15.660 of

00:24:15.800 bifurcation

00:24:16.980 of the

00:24:17.300 papacy

00:24:17.960 that

00:24:19.040 is a

00:24:19.940 new

00:24:20.160 thing

00:24:20.640 and

00:24:21.420 somehow

00:24:21.840 he

00:24:23.720 retained

00:24:24.280 some

00:24:24.580 spiritual

00:24:25.580 papacy

00:24:26.940 or

00:24:27.120 something

00:24:27.460 but

00:24:28.260 this

00:24:28.440 is

00:24:28.700 now

00:24:29.340 another

00:24:29.820 thing

00:24:30.260 in the

00:24:30.480 church

00:24:30.600 that

00:24:30.740 we

00:24:30.820 have

00:24:30.940 to

00:24:31.060 deal

00:24:31.260 with

00:24:31.460 in

00:24:31.540 the

00:24:31.660 future

00:24:31.880 and

00:24:32.260 what

00:24:32.380 does

00:24:32.460 that

00:24:32.560 even

00:24:32.700 mean?

00:24:33.160 The

00:24:33.260 existence

00:24:33.800 of

00:24:34.360 strong

00:24:34.760 pressures

00:24:35.280 is

00:24:36.900 not

00:24:37.140 new

00:24:37.440 in

00:24:37.600 history.

00:24:38.720 Always

00:24:39.120 in

00:24:39.660 the

00:24:39.840 history

00:24:40.060 of

00:24:40.220 the

00:24:40.380 church

00:24:40.740 there

00:24:41.120 were

00:24:41.440 pressures.

00:24:43.040 For

00:24:43.200 example

00:24:43.740 at

00:24:44.760 the

00:24:45.360 end

00:24:45.740 of

00:24:46.240 the

00:24:46.500 18th

00:24:47.120 century

00:24:48.600 there

00:24:50.120 was

00:24:50.400 a

00:24:51.000 strong

00:24:51.340 pressure

00:24:52.300 for

00:24:53.440 electing

00:24:53.960 a

00:24:54.440 pope

00:24:54.840 for

00:24:55.520 destroying

00:24:56.480 the

00:24:56.840 Jesuits

00:24:57.520 and

00:24:57.800 in

00:24:57.980 fact

00:24:58.520 the

00:24:59.400 pope

00:24:59.800 who

00:25:00.140 was

00:25:00.480 elected

00:25:00.900 Clement

00:25:01.840 XIV

00:25:03.980 dissolved

00:25:06.600 the

00:25:07.060 Jesuit

00:25:07.560 order

00:25:08.700 but

00:25:09.480 we

00:25:09.960 can

00:25:10.100 remember

00:25:10.500 also

00:25:11.140 the

00:25:11.820 conclave

00:25:12.580 of

00:25:13.660 1903

00:25:17.000 after

00:25:17.640 the

00:25:17.960 death

00:25:19.400 of

00:25:19.800 Leo X

00:25:20.360 when

00:25:21.180 was

00:25:21.480 elected

00:25:21.920 Semper

00:25:22.860 X

00:25:23.180 in

00:25:23.740 that

00:25:24.060 conclave

00:25:24.800 inside

00:25:26.700 the

00:25:26.960 conclave

00:25:27.380 a

00:25:27.820 cardinal

00:25:28.520 cardinal

00:25:29.520 Puzina

00:25:30.160 declared

00:25:32.000 officially

00:25:33.060 the

00:25:33.520 veto

00:25:34.100 I

00:25:34.460 mean

00:25:34.620 the

00:25:34.880 prohibition

00:25:35.760 on

00:25:37.240 behalf

00:25:37.780 of

00:25:38.100 the

00:25:38.360 imperial

00:25:38.960 Francis

00:25:39.480 Joseph

00:25:40.020 for

00:25:40.560 electing

00:25:41.080 pope

00:25:41.480 cardinal

00:25:42.100 Rampolla

00:25:43.080 so

00:25:43.860 and

00:25:44.520 we

00:25:44.760 can

00:25:45.140 quote

00:25:45.680 hundreds

00:25:47.400 of

00:25:48.320 examples

00:25:48.880 of

00:25:49.320 these

00:25:49.580 strong

00:25:50.100 political

00:25:51.300 pressures

00:25:52.280 from

00:25:53.780 France

00:25:54.460 Spain

00:25:55.100 Germany

00:25:56.360 the

00:25:56.860 church

00:25:57.320 and

00:25:57.540 the

00:25:57.760 popes

00:25:58.920 have

00:25:59.640 always

00:26:00.760 resisted

00:26:02.520 for example

00:26:03.860 after

00:26:04.440 the

00:26:05.100 veto

00:26:06.220 of

00:26:07.160 Francis

00:26:08.080 Joseph

00:26:09.140 Pius X

00:26:11.260 suppressed

00:26:14.700 any

00:26:15.800 kind

00:26:16.280 of

00:26:16.660 veto

00:26:17.500 in

00:26:18.000 the

00:26:19.180 conclave

00:26:19.660 and so

00:26:20.360 we can

00:26:21.880 imagine

00:26:22.320 of course

00:26:22.960 the

00:26:23.360 existence

00:26:23.960 of

00:26:24.560 plots

00:26:26.020 plans

00:26:27.000 for

00:26:27.820 intervening

00:26:29.000 in the

00:26:29.540 conclave

00:26:30.060 but

00:26:31.020 I

00:26:31.620 think

00:26:31.920 that

00:26:32.280 what

00:26:33.360 had

00:26:33.900 to

00:26:34.180 be

00:26:34.440 the

00:26:34.880 attitude

00:26:36.140 the

00:26:36.500 right

00:26:36.800 attitude

00:26:37.240 of

00:26:37.680 a

00:26:37.920 pope

00:26:38.120 at

00:26:38.560 this

00:26:38.880 moment

00:26:39.180 to

00:26:39.580 denounce

00:26:40.180 this

00:26:40.640 publicly

00:26:41.460 to

00:26:41.800 say

00:26:42.160 for

00:26:42.780 example

00:26:43.240 I

00:26:43.720 am

00:26:43.900 obliged

00:26:44.440 to

00:26:44.780 advocate

00:26:45.240 for

00:26:46.000 having

00:26:46.580 for

00:26:48.300 the

00:26:49.000 for

00:26:50.440 the

00:26:50.620 precious

00:26:51.000 but

00:26:51.820 on

00:26:52.800 the

00:26:53.000 contrary

00:26:53.460 Berylis

00:26:54.400 always

00:26:55.280 denied

00:26:56.120 this

00:26:56.700 precious

00:26:57.160 so

00:26:57.800 I

00:26:58.760 don't

00:26:59.000 think

00:26:59.240 that

00:26:59.440 he

00:26:59.600 was

00:26:59.820 a liar

00:27:00.260 why

00:27:00.780 there

00:27:01.140 is

00:27:01.400 this

00:27:02.280 there

00:27:04.320 are

00:27:04.540 all

00:27:05.140 this

00:27:05.460 theory

00:27:06.180 about

00:27:06.680 the

00:27:07.000 precious

00:27:07.780 because

00:27:08.360 I

00:27:09.100 can

00:27:09.400 understand

00:27:09.820 that

00:27:10.200 it

00:27:11.000 seems

00:27:11.380 very

00:27:11.860 strange

00:27:12.400 that

00:27:12.780 without

00:27:13.400 any

00:27:13.900 precious

00:27:14.320 he

00:27:15.260 could

00:27:15.860 abdicate

00:27:16.720 but

00:27:17.560 I

00:27:17.900 fear

00:27:18.240 that

00:27:18.680 this

00:27:19.320 is

00:27:19.560 the

00:27:19.900 historical

00:27:20.420 reality

00:27:21.100 that

00:27:21.580 he

00:27:22.080 retired

00:27:23.160 he

00:27:24.020 gave

00:27:25.980 he

00:27:26.500 dismissed

00:27:27.220 because

00:27:28.940 he

00:27:29.180 was

00:27:29.440 very

00:27:30.300 tired

00:27:32.000 because

00:27:32.660 he

00:27:33.300 couldn't

00:27:34.040 in my

00:27:36.000 view

00:27:37.080 perhaps

00:27:38.100 a deep

00:27:39.300 reason

00:27:40.680 of

00:27:41.380 his

00:27:42.380 abdication

00:27:43.060 it is

00:27:43.480 the failure

00:27:44.280 of the

00:27:44.940 hermeneutic

00:27:45.980 of

00:27:46.320 continuity

00:27:47.280 Benedict XVI

00:27:48.280 during

00:27:48.780 his

00:27:49.380 pontificate

00:27:50.800 faced the

00:27:52.500 crisis

00:27:53.020 of the

00:27:53.580 faith

00:27:54.000 and he

00:27:55.320 thought

00:27:56.840 that

00:27:57.400 with the

00:27:58.640 weapons

00:27:59.200 of the

00:27:59.880 hermeneutic

00:28:00.840 of the

00:28:01.200 continuity

00:28:01.640 he could

00:28:02.900 perhaps

00:28:03.540 resist

00:28:06.680 or fight

00:28:11.380 against

00:28:12.000 this

00:28:12.420 crisis

00:28:13.020 but

00:28:13.340 unfortunately

00:28:14.460 what's

00:28:15.140 happened

00:28:15.480 it is

00:28:16.380 that

00:28:16.660 during

00:28:17.500 his

00:28:17.780 pontificate

00:28:18.600 the

00:28:20.640 processus

00:28:21.640 of

00:28:21.920 auto

00:28:22.320 demolition

00:28:22.940 of the

00:28:23.360 church

00:28:23.800 continued

00:28:25.160 so

00:28:27.000 what I

00:28:28.320 want to

00:28:28.920 say

00:28:29.160 it is

00:28:29.480 that

00:28:29.720 the

00:28:29.960 hermeneutic

00:28:30.760 of the

00:28:31.160 continuity

00:28:31.720 couldn't

00:28:32.900 stop

00:28:33.580 the

00:28:34.980 process

00:28:37.340 of the

00:28:39.940 auto

00:28:40.380 demolition

00:28:41.040 of the

00:28:42.340 church

00:28:42.780 and

00:28:43.820 this

00:28:44.920 because

00:28:45.440 we

00:28:48.020 cannot

00:28:48.900 stop

00:28:50.880 an

00:28:51.560 historical

00:28:52.300 process

00:28:53.420 lead

00:28:54.400 by

00:28:55.620 theologians

00:28:59.120 pastors

00:29:00.060 and

00:29:02.100 politicians

00:29:03.440 and

00:29:04.140 other

00:29:04.460 people

00:29:04.900 only

00:29:06.580 on

00:29:07.320 the

00:29:07.500 plan

00:29:08.080 of

00:29:08.320 a

00:29:08.580 hermeneutic

00:29:09.900 debate

00:29:10.560 our

00:29:11.980 weapons

00:29:12.480 must

00:29:13.220 be

00:29:13.520 different

00:29:14.280 of course

00:29:14.940 above all

00:29:16.220 the

00:29:16.460 weapons

00:29:17.300 of the

00:29:17.640 prayer

00:29:17.880 but

00:29:19.080 also

00:29:20.080 if

00:29:23.340 you

00:29:23.520 are

00:29:23.760 a

00:29:24.460 pope

00:29:24.800 the

00:29:25.920 weapons

00:29:27.100 of

00:29:27.980 condemning

00:29:29.900 or

00:29:30.680 anatomizing

00:29:35.840 and

00:29:36.360 I

00:29:37.920 think

00:29:38.200 that

00:29:38.480 unfortunately

00:29:39.300 this

00:29:39.880 missed

00:29:40.400 in the

00:29:41.020 pontificate

00:29:41.560 of

00:29:41.780 Pope

00:29:42.140 Benedict

00:29:42.780 and

00:29:43.380 perhaps

00:29:44.300 this

00:29:45.220 was

00:29:45.720 one

00:29:46.200 of

00:29:46.460 the

00:29:46.680 reasons

00:29:47.380 of

00:29:47.900 his

00:29:48.220 application

00:29:49.020 that's

00:29:49.880 very

00:29:50.380 very

00:29:50.600 interesting

00:29:50.980 because

00:29:51.720 we

00:29:53.020 do

00:29:53.440 see

00:29:54.120 papal

00:29:55.400 condemnations

00:29:57.020 anathomizing

00:29:58.540 and

00:29:59.140 cancellations

00:30:00.360 now

00:30:01.340 in the

00:30:02.000 papacy

00:30:02.460 of

00:30:02.640 Francis

00:30:02.980 we

00:30:03.540 see

00:30:04.100 some

00:30:05.800 very

00:30:06.140 radical

00:30:06.840 moves

00:30:07.300 first

00:30:07.620 with

00:30:07.900 Cardinal

00:30:08.260 Burke

00:30:08.480 out

00:30:08.820 Piacenza

00:30:09.680 out

00:30:10.060 even

00:30:10.880 Sarah

00:30:11.640 who

00:30:11.940 you'd

00:30:12.680 think

00:30:12.860 because

00:30:13.880 he was

00:30:14.360 an

00:30:14.540 African

00:30:14.920 cardinal

00:30:15.280 there's

00:30:15.500 no

00:30:15.660 way

00:30:16.360 how

00:30:17.280 in the

00:30:17.820 world

00:30:18.040 but

00:30:18.260 it

00:30:18.560 doesn't

00:30:18.740 matter

00:30:18.960 out

00:30:19.260 all

00:30:19.700 good

00:30:19.960 men

00:30:20.240 but

00:30:20.580 nonetheless

00:30:21.240 condemned

00:30:22.400 out

00:30:22.700 and

00:30:23.240 then

00:30:23.460 I

00:30:23.900 mean

00:30:24.060 for

00:30:24.340 America

00:30:25.020 it's

00:30:25.640 very

00:30:26.100 radical

00:30:26.580 because

00:30:26.880 at

00:30:27.080 the

00:30:27.200 same

00:30:27.440 time

00:30:27.920 as

00:30:28.460 you

00:30:28.620 watched

00:30:28.940 Father

00:30:29.260 Rupnik

00:30:29.820 here

00:30:30.580 scandalous

00:30:32.820 guilty

00:30:33.980 of

00:30:34.400 sexually

00:30:34.820 abusing

00:30:35.140 nuns

00:30:35.440 and then

00:30:35.740 confessing

00:30:36.160 them

00:30:36.300 excommunicated

00:30:39.200 and then

00:30:39.580 resuscitated

00:30:40.160 by Francis

00:30:40.700 still a

00:30:41.560 priest

00:30:41.840 yet

00:30:42.960 in

00:30:43.120 America

00:30:43.560 the

00:30:44.100 best

00:30:44.560 known

00:30:44.920 pro-life

00:30:45.280 priest

00:30:45.500 Father

00:30:45.760 Pavone

00:30:46.180 is

00:30:46.940 laicized

00:30:48.360 so

00:30:48.820 it's

00:30:49.300 brutal

00:30:50.220 for

00:30:50.580 America

00:30:50.900 but we're

00:30:51.680 seeing

00:30:52.140 a

00:30:52.820 pope

00:30:53.120 who

00:30:53.760 is

00:30:54.200 doing

00:30:55.320 what

00:30:56.340 needs

00:30:56.840 to be

00:30:57.060 done

00:30:57.240 perhaps

00:30:57.680 but

00:30:58.320 in

00:30:58.620 the

00:30:58.720 opposite

00:30:58.900 direction

00:30:59.300 yes

00:31:00.220 you're

00:31:01.140 right

00:31:01.400 I

00:31:01.720 agree

00:31:02.420 with

00:31:02.680 you

00:31:02.860 I

00:31:03.020 mean

00:31:03.160 I

00:31:03.820 think

00:31:04.060 that

00:31:04.300 there

00:31:04.600 is

00:31:04.800 an

00:31:05.000 abuse

00:31:05.780 of

00:31:06.220 authority

00:31:07.580 with

00:31:08.880 Pope

00:31:09.400 Francis

00:31:09.800 but

00:31:10.220 on the

00:31:10.780 other

00:31:10.980 side

00:31:11.380 with

00:31:11.660 Pope

00:31:12.160 Benedict

00:31:12.520 there

00:31:13.040 is

00:31:13.340 a

00:31:14.280 lack

00:31:14.700 of

00:31:15.040 authority

00:31:15.600 so

00:31:16.400 the

00:31:18.700 pope

00:31:19.540 is

00:31:20.180 a

00:31:20.400 sovereign

00:31:20.820 the

00:31:21.580 pope

00:31:21.800 is

00:31:22.060 someone

00:31:22.660 who

00:31:22.920 governs

00:31:23.680 the

00:31:24.020 church

00:31:24.700 Pope

00:31:25.400 Francis

00:31:25.840 governs

00:31:28.120 the

00:31:28.440 church

00:31:28.800 but

00:31:29.180 unfortunately

00:31:29.800 not only

00:31:31.200 he

00:31:32.680 governs

00:31:33.440 sometimes

00:31:34.900 in an

00:31:36.420 unjust

00:31:37.340 way

00:31:38.280 but

00:31:39.240 it is

00:31:39.840 not only

00:31:40.500 someone

00:31:40.960 who

00:31:41.260 exercises

00:31:41.980 authority

00:31:42.640 which is

00:31:43.180 good

00:31:43.480 but

00:31:43.940 it is

00:31:45.160 he is

00:31:47.460 authoritarian

00:31:48.700 like a

00:31:51.060 dictator

00:31:51.660 so

00:31:52.140 you know

00:31:52.520 there is

00:31:52.840 a book

00:31:53.380 the

00:31:54.120 dictator

00:31:54.960 pope

00:31:55.520 but

00:31:56.360 during

00:31:57.140 the history

00:31:58.020 of the

00:31:58.520 church

00:31:58.840 the pope

00:31:59.800 has never

00:32:00.260 been a

00:32:00.960 dictator

00:32:01.520 he has

00:32:02.740 been

00:32:03.000 a man

00:32:04.820 who

00:32:05.200 has

00:32:06.280 governed

00:32:06.640 the church

00:32:07.500 with a

00:32:08.140 strong

00:32:08.760 authority

00:32:10.740 I think

00:32:11.880 that perhaps

00:32:12.720 the

00:32:13.440 first

00:32:14.260 thing

00:32:15.160 that

00:32:15.800 of course

00:32:17.740 the first

00:32:18.220 thing

00:32:18.500 that

00:32:18.800 good

00:32:20.540 Catholic

00:32:21.000 traditional

00:32:21.500 Catholic

00:32:22.120 wish

00:32:25.140 desire

00:32:25.920 for

00:32:26.220 the future

00:32:26.720 it is

00:32:27.460 a pope

00:32:29.100 who

00:32:29.760 restore

00:32:30.720 the

00:32:31.320 good

00:32:32.960 doctrine

00:32:33.520 the truth

00:32:35.000 inside the

00:32:35.680 church

00:32:36.040 this is

00:32:36.680 the main

00:32:37.240 desire

00:32:37.820 for

00:32:38.160 traditional

00:32:39.680 people

00:32:40.200 but I

00:32:41.060 think

00:32:41.300 that

00:32:41.580 if

00:32:42.200 we

00:32:42.660 consider

00:32:43.200 not only

00:32:43.760 traditional

00:32:44.540 but

00:32:44.900 all

00:32:45.960 the

00:32:46.400 Catholic

00:32:47.120 people

00:32:47.560 including

00:32:48.360 progressive

00:32:49.260 I think

00:32:50.180 that

00:32:50.400 in this

00:32:51.140 moment

00:32:51.480 what

00:32:51.900 all

00:32:52.640 they

00:32:53.140 really

00:32:54.620 would

00:32:55.620 like

00:32:56.140 in a

00:32:57.340 future

00:32:57.660 conclave

00:32:58.380 it would

00:32:59.160 be

00:32:59.360 a right

00:32:59.920 pope

00:33:00.780 a right

00:33:01.500 pope

00:33:01.660 in the

00:33:02.140 sense

00:33:02.560 a

00:33:03.220 pipe

00:33:03.740 who

00:33:04.560 exercised

00:33:05.480 justice

00:33:06.760 because

00:33:08.540 perhaps

00:33:10.680 one of

00:33:11.280 the

00:33:11.460 problems

00:33:12.120 today

00:33:13.420 in the

00:33:13.760 church

00:33:14.060 it is

00:33:14.820 the

00:33:15.060 lack

00:33:15.380 of

00:33:16.700 justice

00:33:18.560 and

00:33:20.140 this

00:33:20.540 also

00:33:21.020 the

00:33:21.280 progressive

00:33:21.860 feel

00:33:24.060 this

00:33:25.360 they

00:33:25.740 are

00:33:26.360 they

00:33:27.820 don't

00:33:28.080 feel

00:33:28.560 themselves

00:33:29.120 sure

00:33:29.960 because

00:33:30.660 the

00:33:31.200 pope

00:33:31.500 in

00:33:31.700 this

00:33:31.960 moment

00:33:32.520 the

00:33:34.760 behavior

00:33:35.400 of

00:33:36.220 Pope

00:33:36.620 Francis

00:33:37.180 is

00:33:37.720 more

00:33:38.020 similar

00:33:38.620 to

00:33:39.060 a

00:33:39.300 behavior

00:33:39.680 of

00:33:39.900 a

00:33:40.020 dictator

00:33:40.680 than

00:33:41.240 to

00:33:41.780 a

00:33:41.940 behavior

00:33:42.320 of

00:33:43.100 a

00:33:43.400 traditional

00:33:44.600 pope

00:33:45.980 this

00:33:46.620 is

00:33:46.900 a

00:33:48.020 serious

00:33:48.420 problem

00:33:49.100 unbelievable

00:33:50.040 so much

00:33:50.760 there

00:33:51.120 if you

00:33:52.820 had to

00:33:53.280 give us

00:33:53.640 a one

00:33:54.240 word

00:33:54.620 answer

00:33:55.240 how much

00:33:56.600 longer do

00:33:57.040 you think

00:33:57.280 Pope Francis

00:33:57.720 will be

00:33:58.120 reigning

00:33:58.520 as pope

00:33:58.880 I

00:34:02.700 don't

00:34:03.040 think

00:34:03.340 very

00:34:05.080 much

00:34:05.600 for

00:34:06.880 two

00:34:08.220 reasons

00:34:09.020 the

00:34:09.560 first

00:34:10.320 is

00:34:11.020 that

00:34:11.640 he

00:34:12.420 seems

00:34:12.740 to

00:34:12.920 be

00:34:13.220 very

00:34:13.860 ill

00:34:14.360 but

00:34:14.900 of

00:34:15.240 course

00:34:15.460 I

00:34:15.760 am

00:34:16.100 not

00:34:17.080 sure

00:34:17.500 about

00:34:17.980 this

00:34:18.460 but

00:34:19.260 here

00:34:19.720 in

00:34:19.980 Rome

00:34:20.400 there

00:34:20.760 is

00:34:20.980 a

00:34:21.180 strong

00:34:21.520 voice

00:34:22.180 about

00:34:22.760 his

00:34:24.120 health

00:34:24.680 the

00:34:25.280 health

00:34:26.260 of

00:34:26.580 Pope Francis

00:34:27.200 is

00:34:27.420 very

00:34:27.840 bad

00:34:28.160 but

00:34:29.400 this

00:34:29.740 is

00:34:29.940 a

00:34:30.180 physical

00:34:30.700 reason

00:34:32.280 there

00:34:33.000 is

00:34:33.180 a

00:34:33.380 more

00:34:33.740 intellectual

00:34:36.120 or

00:34:36.460 theological

00:34:36.860 reason

00:34:37.180 it

00:34:37.440 is

00:34:37.620 the

00:34:37.920 fact

00:34:38.320 that

00:34:38.620 his

00:34:39.640 pontificate

00:34:40.600 is

00:34:41.560 leaving

00:34:42.100 a

00:34:43.160 very

00:34:44.160 rapid

00:34:45.000 decline

00:34:45.940 I

00:34:46.700 mean

00:34:47.040 that

00:34:47.500 he

00:34:48.860 also

00:34:50.640 Pope Francis

00:34:51.940 is

00:34:53.780 aware

00:34:54.820 that

00:34:55.880 the

00:34:56.840 pontificate

00:34:57.680 his

00:34:58.120 pontificate

00:34:58.800 it is

00:34:59.280 at

00:34:59.840 the

00:35:00.220 end

00:35:01.220 some

00:35:02.820 years

00:35:03.040 ago

00:35:03.300 I

00:35:03.680 wrote

00:35:04.440 an

00:35:04.660 article

00:35:05.040 with

00:35:05.540 the

00:35:06.000 title

00:35:06.620 Motus

00:35:08.000 in

00:35:08.340 fine

00:35:08.880 velocio

00:35:09.820 which

00:35:10.360 means

00:35:10.820 that

00:35:11.160 movement

00:35:11.800 becomes

00:35:13.980 more

00:35:14.780 ripe

00:35:15.180 at

00:35:16.400 the

00:35:17.000 end

00:35:17.360 this

00:35:17.980 is

00:35:18.220 my

00:35:18.600 impression

00:35:19.260 in

00:35:20.820 this

00:35:22.180 year

00:35:22.740 2000

00:35:23.580 23

00:35:24.640 the

00:35:25.880 things

00:35:26.360 will

00:35:26.740 go

00:35:26.900 very

00:35:27.240 rapidly

00:35:28.100 and

00:35:29.000 the

00:35:29.360 pontificate

00:35:30.440 will

00:35:30.940 go

00:35:31.200 to

00:35:31.480 his

00:35:31.800 end

00:35:32.200 there

00:35:32.900 is

00:35:33.040 so

00:35:33.180 much

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00:35:33.480 we

00:35:33.640 could

00:35:33.760 talk

00:35:34.000 about

00:35:34.280 but

00:35:34.720 we've

00:35:35.040 got

00:35:35.180 to

00:35:35.280 wrap

00:35:35.480 it

00:35:35.600 up

00:35:35.720 now

00:35:35.980 professor

00:35:36.420 de

00:35:36.620 mate

00:35:36.820 thank

00:35:37.160 you

00:35:37.280 so

00:35:37.440 much

00:35:37.600 for

00:35:37.760 speaking

00:35:37.980 with

00:35:38.180 us

00:35:38.320 thank

00:35:38.500 you

00:35:38.660 god

00:35:39.880 bless

00:35:40.120 you

00:35:40.300 and

00:35:41.680 god

00:35:41.920 bless

00:35:42.140 all

00:35:42.300 of

00:35:42.420 you

00:35:42.560 and

00:35:43.260 we'll

00:35:43.360 see

00:35:43.480 you

00:35:43.560 next

00:35:43.700 time

00:35:43.980 from

00:35:44.640 Rome

00:35:44.900 hi

00:35:47.420 everyone

00:35:47.700 this

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00:35:48.200 henry

00:35:48.400 weston

00:35:48.800 we

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00:35:49.320 you

00:35:49.480 enjoyed

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00:35:52.220 be

00:35:52.500 sure

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00:35:58.920 in

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00:36:10.720 God

00:36:11.080 bless

00:36:11.380 you

The John-Henry Westen Show - January 10, 2023

The Darkest Point of the Papacy of Benedict XVI

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