The second Eucharistic prayer in the Novus Ordo Mass was hastily rewritten at a restaurant
Summary
While Pope Francis and many of his friends in Rome seem to be trying to crush the Latin Mass, there is all sorts of liturgical abuse going on in the Catholic Church. On this episode of the John Henry Weston Show, Father Charles M. Murr joins us to talk about it.
Transcript
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The sacristan is taking the remnants of the precious blood in 10 chalices and squirting detergent, dove soap into all of them and washing them.
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He said, well, this is the way we clean the chalices.
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And after we were done, I've done, the mass is finished.
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I said to the pastor, a monsignor, I said, do you realize that the sacristan, what's the problem?
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I said, this is the precious blood of Christ that's left over from mass.
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He said, you know, I'm going to tell you something, Father.
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If you don't like the way we do things here at St. Such and Such, you can go elsewhere.
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While Pope Francis and many of his friends in Rome seem to be wanting to crush the Latin
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mass, there's all sorts of liturgical abuse going on.
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In fact, just this week at LifeSite News, we featured a Switzerland so-called Catholic
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church, by the way, in a diocese that is headed by a bishop who supports same-sex marriage.
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Anyway, right in that church is featured a woman seeming to concelebrate mass with a
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And that's what we're going to talk about today.
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On this episode of the John Henry Weston Show, and we've got a great guest, Father Charles
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He is the author of Murder in the 33rd Degree, but he's also a priest who was involved with
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various bishops and cardinals in the Vatican, who has given us some of the most deep insights
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Father, if you wouldn't mind leading us off with the sign of the cross, that would be awesome.
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In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, amen.
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So, Father, you saw that clip of the woman doing—I don't even know what to call it.
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Tell us what you make of that, and give us your take on all these things.
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This latter part of my life, I've used the word outrageous so many times, it's losing
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There's so much wrong with it, to unpack it would take too long.
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It's simply wrong, and any good Catholic knows that.
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Why these bishops—and there are many, there are many—tolerate such things isn't a mystery.
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When we were—you and I were talking just a little bit before, I could name, besides what
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we just saw, a hundred other liturgical abuses that I've seen in my life, some of them incredibly
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strong, horrible things, others less, but equally wrong.
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Could the same thing be said about the Latin Mass?
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Do you know of any liturgical abuses in the traditional Latin Mass?
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And I've gone to hundreds of them, thousands of them, and I say that Latin Mass, the traditional
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As a matter of fact, if you're following what it is, the way it's supposed to be said, you
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All of the—all of the—these horrific things are tolerated.
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And the thing that is not tolerated, not tolerated, is the Latin Mass.
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I used to have a friend who would say that often.
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If you could describe for us—so the way this came about, you know, it was after the
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But it seemed, at least from a historical perspective that I've read about, that the insanity almost
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But tell us from your experience, what have you seen?
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When Bonini, Archbishop Bonini, decided he was going to redo the entire liturgy, and he
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Everyone who was involved with it was a liberal in the worst sense of the word, and they had
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The Second Vatican Council says beautifully that not one word of the Roman canon is to
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Let me just back up a little bit, just a moment here.
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There was a particular need for some liturgical renewal in the Church.
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Even Pope Pius XII himself was beginning a liturgical renewal.
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Now, when I say that, by no means am I talking about what we have today, or anything like
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Mother Pasqualina, who was Pius XII's secretary for 42 years almost, was a very dear and close
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And she told me that Pius XII himself, first of all, in China, had permitted the mass to
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When the missionaries were going there, they couldn't start in Latin, which is completely
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foreign to any experience that the Chinese would have of religion.
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He gave permission for the mass to be done in Chinese to begin with.
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And when people would become educated in the faith, then it was to go into the Latin.
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Because a lot of our viewers are not Latin mass Catholics.
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What is it about Latin that's so important in the first place?
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Most people nowadays are experiencing mass in what we call the vernacular or whatever,
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you know, English or Chinese as there, but why would the Holy Father want to switch back
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One of the things key to having Latin and to using Latin, it gives very well the idea
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It's like I had two altar boys the first time that they helped serve the Latin mass.
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They got, we got back into the sacristy and I said, well, you did very well, boys.
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And one of them said, but I didn't understand anything.
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And I said to him, quite simply, I wasn't talking to you.
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And everyone else, I loved, I loved the, the, the, the comment that, uh, uh, who is the
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He said he had gone to Novus Ordo masses with guitars and hallelujahs and somersaults and
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He said, I always got the impression somebody was trying to sell me a car.
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And did, did you see, did you see Bishop LeBaron's, uh, uh, face up?
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Anyway, but he said this, he said, and the Latin mass was almost as if you were being pulled
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You were being taken into something and elevated or words to those effect.
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The Latin makes it very, very plain that this is not about you.
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Don't get me wrong, but we're directing everything toward God.
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When I was a boy, when I was a boy, one of the first comments that I said to my grandmother,
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she would take me to mass on Sundays and I would be over at her house for the weekend.
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I said, but why does the priest have, have his back to the, to the, to the people?
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I don't know, five or six or seven years old, whatever I was.
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And she said, because he's, he's, he's directing his prayer to God.
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I said, well, that, you know, that's, that, that doesn't make sense because we can't see
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She said, he said, do you remember the other day we went on a bus?
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She said, would you like the bus driver to have turned around and started talking to us
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It is, it is, it's also something else that's very important.
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And I just had an interview the other day in Spanish with, with Luis Ramon, Roman.
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What I have two great ironies that I love about the Catholic faith.
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One is from the first Vatican council, the dogma of faith that says, you do not need faith
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Reason can bring you to the, to the fact that God exists.
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Now, this is, you do not need faith that God exists.
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But the other one is that Latin, that Latin is a dead language.
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My father used to say that German was a dead language.
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And when I went to go study in Austria, I said, German is not a dead language.
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He said, it's dead because only the dead have enough time to study its grammar.
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And that doesn't mean that it's, it's passe and it's, we should bury it.
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It means that it has stopped developing as a language.
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Every six months to a year, some words in English, especially in American English will
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And then, then you have this crazy verbs like to get, to get up, to get out, to get over,
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to get around, and they all, everything means things, but, but it evolves.
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If you want to know what it means, you have to study it.
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And this is why the official language of the church is still Latin, but it also has a wonderful,
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And when the priest is talking, he is talking to God.
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And, and this is, this is the, this is the, if you will, for us, the language of God.
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And if you say that people don't understand it, that's not true.
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People always understood what was going on with the mass.
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Those who wanted to understand it, understood it.
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Those who never want, didn't want to understand it, never could.
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I understood it when I was seven, eight, nine, 10, 12 years old, 15 years old.
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And also, also, you'll, you'll pardon me, but I have a degree in also in romance languages.
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I don't think there's anybody in the world who hates the sound of Italian, except maybe
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There's a, there's a YouTube video that talks about the word ambulance, ambulance, but in
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And if anybody who's listening knows Spanish or knows Italian or Portuguese, even French,
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the rhythm and the rhyming is so fantastic because of all of the use of vowels.
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I think people need to hear that because that's where there's a lot of confusion because
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the arguments really haven't been enunciated very well.
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And so people are left wondering what's with the Latin anyway.
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Um, but wanted to get to what you've already experienced as a priest.
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You've seen, uh, thousands of masses, probably many, many more than anyone else will.
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You've seen, you've mentioned, you've seen a lot of abuses.
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Give us a couple of those just to tell us where we're at right now and where we really
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This man, Hannibal Bognini, an archbishop, was in charge of liturgical reform, read that
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teaching of the Second Vatican Council that the Roman canon was not to be touched.
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You'll forgive me for this little, little detour I'm going to make.
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John the 23rd, Pope John the 23rd knew very well.
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But he knew very well that he was elected to die.
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And when you tell a man that he was, you're elected to die, the collar goes up a little
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That wasn't in the, that wasn't in the, in the, in the works at all.
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He also, when the council declared that nothing was to change in the Roman canon, he said,
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And there was a whole group of, of, of, of, of, of, in the, in the College of Cardinals
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But if you look at the legal problem of it, it was something he said, no, I'm here.
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You might've, you might've elected me to die, but I'm, I'm, I'm breathing and I'm quite
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The council anyway, went into this, this whole thing, and you can't touch the Roman
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So Bunini started changing everything else around it.
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Now, when we say the Roman canon, the canon of the mass is from the Sanctus, holy, holy,
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holy, the, the, the, the three times holy from the Sanctus until the great amen.
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Bunini said, well, all right, we won't change that.
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Now, I said this before, and it almost sounds like I'm making this up, but the Eucharistic
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Because it's, it has such rhythm and such cadence, such flow?
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Luis Bouyer, who worked with Bunini for years and had no time for it at all.
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And he really saw a lot of what he had worked on with Bunini as wrong.
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But one of the things that is most incredible, and I want your listeners to hear this because
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And he said the following, you can read it in his autobiography.
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He said, I was told on short order that the second canon that I was working on, or the
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second liturgical, Eucharistic prayer, we're called Eucharistic prayer number two, was to
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be on Bunini's desk at 10 o'clock tomorrow morning, right?
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I was in a restaurant in Trastevere having pizza.
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I don't know what he's having, whatever he's having.
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And he started writing out, he spent an hour and a half, two hours or whatever, writing
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out the second Eucharistic prayer and had it on Bunini's desk in the morning.
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So it was, it was written in a, in a, in a, in a Osteria in Trastevere.
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Our mass, the canon of the mass is 2000 years old parts of it.
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If, if there are any changes that are made, they were usually additions to, not subtractions
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from, additions to it, from different liturgical experiences, this, that, and the other thing.
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We call it the Tridentine mass because the Council of Trent, by order of Pius V, Pius V said,
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look, we've got this right over here, that right over there, it's going, we're going to make one solid right.
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And it's going to be called, this is the Roman, the Roman missile, the Roman mass, right?
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But to say, to say, I mean, it would, people wouldn't believe you if you said, well, I'm just going to, I'm going to invent a new mass.
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I'm going to sit down here on a cocktail napkin and write out a new canon for the mass.
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And you're going to use it as if it were the word of God.
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But you and I know that it comes from a Trastevere Osteria, right?
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And in a side-by-side comparison, they show you, in fact, it's done in Mass of the Ages, it's done it as well.
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And you're deleting prayers that are listed as the timeline from apostolic times.
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You're dealing also with a lot of people who were ignorant on liturgical matters, even priests.
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Because before the council, priests were taught how to say the Mass.
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You were taught how to say it, and it was done this way and that way.
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There's an aspect about the Mass that I said to somebody joking the other day, but it wasn't a joke.
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When I said the Trinity Mass, every single thing has a movement, a motion, what you're supposed to be thinking, a bow, straight up.
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You're concentrating on what you're doing, and it's beautiful.
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You don't just take a Mass and add things to it and then throw things out.
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When people saw that that could be done, what I'm telling you with Boyer is a new revelation.
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We only just found out about that a few years ago.
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But they suspected, and people suspected this all along, that these were just creations of people.
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Well, if they can create these things in Rome, and then we had Mass for children, Mass for grandparents, Mass for yodelers, Mass for this, Mass for...
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When priests started seeing that, they said, well, anybody can create anything.
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Well, let me throw my personality into this whole thing.
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So now you have the Mass of Father Bob and the Mass of Father Ted and the Mass of this one and that one.
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And I have never seen two priests say the same Mass in the Novus Ordo.
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I've seen 100 priests say the Tridentine Mass all the same.
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But I've never seen two priests say the same Mass in the Novus Ordo, because it's about the personality of the priest, too.
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And this is what Leboeuf was saying when he was talking to Bishop Barrett.
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The personality of the priest is the most important thing in the Mass.
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There's a whole mysticism to the Mass that is no longer there.
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And you mentioned this, too, and it's a good observation.
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Go back and look at the changes of those prayers.
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John Henry, all of those prayers were changed this way.
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I was one time invited to Santa Rosa to preach at all of the Masses.
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There were eight Masses, I believe, at the Cathedral.
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Therefore, I had never attended eight Masses in a row.
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I think it was the, and the feast was Corpus Christi.
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It's the first time in a long time I'm hearing Mass.
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But one of the first times that I'd heard Mass in a long time.
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And I'm listening to Mass after Mass after Mass.
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Finally, in about the fifth Mass, I heard something that I don't think I had ever heard before.
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And I heard the priest say very devoutly, the good priest, said,
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This is the chalice of my blood, the blood of the new and everlasting covenant.
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It will be shed for you and for many for the forgiveness of sin.
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But this is what will be, present tense, future tense.
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And it just struck me right then, good Lord, what the priest is saying and what Christ was saying at the Last Supper is,
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This right now, here, Thursday, Holy Thursday, this right now here with you at this Last Supper is what tomorrow will be offered on the cross.
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It hit me so hard that I think I almost started crying.
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We pulled the past into the present as Christ pulled the future into the present to make himself present.
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And what's really the problem, and you know it and I know it.
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You know this very well and I know it and most of your listeners know it.
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The real problem with the new Mass is that many of the people who are celebrating it, not offering, they don't offer Mass.
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I'm no one to judge the internal thoughts and conditions of anyone.
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It gives me, by all outward signs, the idea that the person who is celebrating that Mass really does not believe that that is the body, blood, soul, and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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Therefore, people have lost their own faith in it.
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And when they see how the Eucharist is treated, they lose more faith in the real presence.
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And it becomes like any Protestant service, a communion service, whatever they call them.
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Of the 40,000 different Protestant churches, they all have their own sort of a communion.
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That's why at weddings, funerals, this, that, and the other thing, when I was pastor of three parishes in Manhattan, I cringed every time I had a funeral or a wedding because I knew the majority of the people who were going to receive Holy Communion had no right to do that.
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And that if they knew what they were doing, and I think a lot of them did, they were committing a sacrilege.
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And so I would have to announce at every funeral and at every wedding, please, those who are able to receive, right?
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And I always put this, I always put this, those who have not broken the fast, I put that as first reason.
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So I said, remember, one hour you're to fast before communion.
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Well, that helped a little bit, but not really.
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This is why I love when people would come and kneel and on the tongue receive.
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People who don't believe in the real presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist have no problem going up and receiving the wafer, they call it the wafer, in their hands.
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It's a sign, it's a symbol, it's I'm doing this and you're doing this and aren't we nice?
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However, if you tell people, no, to receive who is Jesus Christ in this sacrament, you have to kneel in adoration before him.
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People, if you would tell a Protestant that this is the body, a Protestant or somebody of the Jewish faith or a Muslim or what have you, who would otherwise go to communion at a funeral or something.
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But if you would tell them, no, you have to kneel in adoration to receive that.
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All of those things were eliminated so that people could quite easily, informally receive the host.
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What I'm very happy about, very happy about, is the resurgence of the Latin Mass.
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I never thought I would see this happening in my life, and it's happening everywhere.
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I just got a call this morning from someone in Australia.
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They're just starting another group of Latin Mass there and here and there.
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It delights me to some degree that people in Rome find this so bothersome.
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I'm saying to myself, if it bothers these people, this must be good.
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If you can know a man by his friends, it stands to reason that you can know him by his enemies as well.
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And if this upsets people, that people are having more devotion to the Blessed Sacrament, and they're getting into the Mass more, and people are converting and coming into the—and it upsets these people, there's something wrong with those people.
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There's not something wrong with what's happening.
00:31:42.200
Let me just tell—let me give you one example.
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When I'm talking about a priest as a priest, I went to a parish.
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I'm there, and communion time comes, and there are more people in the sanctuary than there are in the pews.
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Everybody's up there, and I said, do you realize that the sacrament—what's the problem?
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I said, this is the precious blood of Christ that's left over from Mass.
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He said, you know, I'm going to tell you something, Father.
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If you don't like the way we do things here at St. Such and Such, you can go elsewhere.
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I mean, these are the things that you're seeing, and I know what's going on.
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And it's to devaluate, lessen, lessen, lessen the idea of Jesus Christ truly present in the sacrament.
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That's what it is, and that's what it comes down to.
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And that's the whole problem that we're facing today.
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People don't want our Lord and Savior not to be in the Blessed Sacrament.
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And for some reason, a false idea of ecumenism, Rome and Rome's prelates, many of them, most of them, I would say, don't want that.
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I'm very glad you gave that example, Father, because it actually illustrates what you said.
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It's hard for the faithful, who actually believe, to think even that a priest exists who doesn't believe, let alone that a bishop doesn't believe.
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When you see a parish that has that, the parade of extraordinary ministers, most of whom are women, go up on the altar and come out in droves.
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And if you're traditional-minded, you have to play a game to avoid them, to try and get to the priest.
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It's a horrific game that many people have had to play.
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But a lot of these things, they speak to an unbelief in the actual presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist.
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One of the things that we heard, I heard early on, and this was in the early 90s, that the Newman Center at a particular university was also, after Mass, pouring the precious blood down the sink.
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Bishop Schneider, when he was talking to me about the result of Holy Communion in the hand,
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and the fact, therefore, that we are trampling our Lord under our feet.
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If you've ever seen the video with a guy with gloves on, and he puts an unconsecrated host, but a host anyway,
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into his gloved hand, removes it, and shows you the leftovers, if you will, the particles of the host that are there.
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Every altar boy knows of that, because if there's an altar boy who holds a patent, usually at every Mass, if it's a large Mass,
00:35:11.340
you're going to have particles of our Lord on the patent.
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And then, most often, when there's no patent, when there's, you know, communion in the hand, they're swept onto the carpet somewhere.
00:35:24.020
John Henry, look, just what you're saying is very important.
00:35:29.280
If, let me just do it this way, if that's the body of Christ, it's very important.
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These two fingers don't open up again, because they may have particles of his own host in them.
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The priest takes the patent and cleans the corporal of any particles and puts them in the chalice.
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I mean, the chapel was gorgeous, not dead beautiful.
00:36:40.720
The bishop walked in, the bishop of the diocese and said to me,
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He said, the new liturgical norms indicate that the tabernacle should be brought off to the side.
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I said, those are norms for the Basilica of St. Peter's in Rome, for St. Mary Majors in Rome, for huge basilicas, cathedrals, where things are lost.
00:37:10.380
He said, well, I still think, I said, I'm going to tell you something, Bishop, with all due respect.
00:37:19.460
I said, look, we here happen to believe that this is the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ in that tabernacle.
00:37:31.020
If it is not, I don't want him on a side altar.
00:37:41.240
But if it happens to be our Lord and Savior, why in the world would I put him on the side so that you could have a chair in the middle?
00:38:06.300
When I hear Viganot and when I hear Bishop Schneider or Cardinal Burke, when I hear men like that, I remember Athanasius against the world.
00:38:19.220
We stop and think of England in the time of Henry VIII.
00:38:35.060
If it means our head, losing our head, well, who wouldn't want to do that?
00:38:52.580
But I do believe, and I mean this sincerely, I'm not a Pollyanna.
00:38:57.880
I really believe this sincerely, that all of this is happening for a reason.
00:39:08.480
That's one of the great things, the great joys that pulls me toward the goal of getting to heaven.
00:39:17.620
But one of the great reasons is so that I can understand all the things I didn't understand here.
00:39:33.140
I'm going to enter into heaven and just go, oh, wow.
00:39:41.400
This is one of the wonderful things about having a clear mind when things begin to make sense.
00:39:49.000
I've talked to many alcoholics and drug addicts who have come out of alcoholism and drug addiction.
00:39:54.780
And almost to a man, to a woman, they say, the most beautiful thing is I've regained clarity.
00:40:06.620
Well, that clarity is enough for people to change their entire life just to maintain that gift.
00:40:15.400
Imagine that gift magnified infinitely in heaven.
00:40:23.940
What doesn't make sense today will make sense then.
00:40:30.640
I remember that Bolton Sheen told that story about the matriarch of a family, a very wealthy woman came in to talk to the sister about her son, Reginald.
00:40:44.840
And, you know, when the parents had to go to the teacher conference to see how this kid was doing.
00:40:50.240
And she said to the nun, sister, sister, now, Reginald is a little bit upset.
00:40:59.060
If Reginald misbehaves, sister, don't hit Reginald with the ruler.
00:41:24.160
Our Lord talks about the institution of the Eucharist.
00:41:28.360
This is the first time he talks about the Eucharist, chapter 6, St. John.
00:41:37.620
Whoever eats my body and drinks my blood has life in me, and I live in him.
00:41:48.140
Not like the bread, the manna, that your fathers ate in the desert.
00:41:55.140
Who eats my body and drinks my blood will live forever.
00:42:07.920
And he repeats and repeats and repeats the same thing, right?
00:42:11.680
And at the end, he ends saying, who eats my body and drinks my blood lives in me.
00:42:21.600
The Pharisees and Sadducees, other followers that he was, the apostles, the 12 apostles are over here.
00:42:27.660
All of this group of people, hundreds probably, who were following him, said, is this man insane?
00:42:39.640
Who can listen to what he's saying and not want to vomit?
00:42:45.420
He's telling us that we have to eat, chew, eat his body and drink his blood?
00:43:01.000
Now, had our Lord been a politician, he would have said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
00:43:10.380
He turned to the 12, the apostles, and said, do you want to follow them?
00:43:19.520
And St. Peter answers, Lord, to whom shall we go?
00:43:28.260
You have words of eternal life, and we have come to believe that you are the son of the
00:43:33.720
This is the gospel according to Charles Murr, right?
00:43:38.560
But Peter was saying, Lord, we haven't an idea.
00:43:42.280
We don't have a clue what you're talking about.
00:43:44.600
Not a clue, but because you say so, we're staying right here.
00:43:51.960
And then right after that, our Lord talks about the betrayal.
00:44:01.420
Now, just take that, and now let's go to the Last Supper, right?
00:44:06.160
There at the Last Supper, our Lord takes bread and says, this is my body.
00:44:12.880
Takes a chalice of wine and says, this is my blood.
00:44:23.320
Because all this time, he's thinking that he's going to have to literally eat the body
00:44:31.940
And the irony is, the paradox is, yes, he literally is going to do that in a different way.
00:44:37.960
But the relief, Peter must have said, oh, this is what you were talking about.
00:44:43.820
But this was so important that you made it the sine qua non to following you.
00:44:54.660
And if you don't, you have nothing to do with me.
00:45:06.280
If you don't believe, do what I said to the bishop.
00:45:10.140
The bishop, I don't want it even on the side altar.
00:45:12.360
But if it is the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ, the second person of the blessed
00:45:16.880
trinity, why in the world is it not going to be central?
00:45:21.920
Why in the world would we be treating it as nothing?
00:45:26.660
Why in the world would we be desecrating and committing sacrilege with this?
00:45:32.820
Why would we do that when saints and ordinary people died?
00:45:38.040
I could tell you stories of the Mexican Revolution, the Mexican Civil War, the Cristero War in
00:45:43.940
Lay people who died defending the Eucharist, taking the Eucharist out of the tabernacle to
00:45:49.820
defend it from the atrocities of the government soldiers.
00:45:56.700
Priests who were killed bringing the Eucharist to the sick and dying.
00:46:01.300
These are heroes and heroines of the faith, real people who really believed.
00:46:08.040
We've got to do some real changing here in our thinking and in the way we do things.
00:46:15.280
Because the way I treat things, John Henry, you're a friend of mine.
00:46:21.780
The way I treat you shows how much of a friend you are.
00:46:26.860
If I disrespect you, it shows how much of a friend you are not, or we are not, right?
00:46:37.700
If it is the body and blood of Jesus Christ really, truly, why would you be treating it
00:46:48.840
And that's the difference between the new mass and the ancient mass.
00:46:54.640
The ancient mass knew that reality and promoted it.
00:46:58.280
I don't know what the Novus Ordo, I don't know.
00:47:02.160
I'm 72 years old, and I've seen this for the majority of my life, the Novus Ordo.
00:47:06.860
And I offered that mass as devoutly as I could.
00:47:14.580
And you're going to think I'm a little bit crazy, but of course you know that already.
00:47:24.300
And I can hear some bishops who are going to be, listen, they're going to cringe with
00:47:28.940
When I knew that we had to give communion in the hand, and I had to because it was the
00:47:35.140
law, curiously, John Henry, curiously, we had to give communion in the hand.
00:47:47.580
It was a mortal sin to touch the host, to touch the host.
00:47:51.460
When I would have to give communion in the hand because it was now the law of the land,
00:47:57.000
in the genuflection before we gave out communion, I asked our Lord's pardon.
00:48:02.040
Every time I genuflected to distribute communion, I said, I'm sorry to have to do this.
00:48:10.060
And because I knew it was going to be mistreated, mishandled, miss everything.
00:48:14.680
But it was out of, I couldn't do anything about it.
00:48:18.300
Couldn't, there was, and there are so many priests who are in the same situation.
00:48:21.860
We know, and we knew that there's something wrong, but we could not act otherwise.
00:48:28.840
We had an idea of obedience, which is, one of the good things that's happening today is
00:48:34.780
we're re-examining that whole idea of obedience.
00:48:37.220
We're re-examining it and coming to some different conclusions, some healthier conclusions.
00:48:48.440
Just a minute, the bishop can't ask me to do things that are wrong.
00:48:52.220
Your love for Jesus in the Holy Eucharist is so evident.
00:48:55.160
And let's pray that it stirs many people, many hearts, to love him more in the Blessed
00:49:04.560
Even in this time, in the darkest of times, as you were mentioning, we'll understand it
00:49:15.560
But it talks about how all things work for good for those who love him.
00:49:18.740
And so even in these crazy times, this hell that the church is going through will somehow
00:49:30.840
And we have to hold on to that, because this is what Christ himself told us, and he is no
00:49:45.560
And you know, for those who are old, old like I am, thank God that you knew the church
00:49:54.200
Thank God that you knew the church before, before 1965.
00:50:04.980
I'll tell you, this is the thing, the thing with the state of the church today, it can only
00:50:22.760
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00:50:29.480
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00:50:34.400
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